PDA

View Full Version : Charlie Sanders making the HOF is a fraud


cdcox
02-03-2007, 12:55 PM
He was a very good player, but no where near in the class of other HOF that have been elected through the normal (non-old timers) process.

In fantasy points, his highest year of production placed him 31st in the league.

One of the questioners just said "You obviously revolutionized the TE positon..." Has anyone EVER heard that said of Charlie Sanders before today?

I don't think the old timers committee serves any useful purpose for players that played after 1970. It just puts in people who don't belong.

cdcox
02-03-2007, 01:11 PM
In the last half hour they have shown both Roger Wehrli's and Sanders' highlight videos. Sanders must have been embarrassed at the comparison.

DTLB58
02-03-2007, 01:14 PM
Sanders had 31 TD's in his career

Might as well put Gonzo in RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!!!!!!!

This should have been Dt's spot :banghead:

Phobia
02-03-2007, 01:16 PM
Please say this is a hoax.

Chade
02-03-2007, 01:16 PM
It only took this guy something like, 24 years to get in. I'm sure he was a titan of the game in his day...

Veterans committee...

cdcox
02-03-2007, 01:21 PM
Sanders had 31 TD's in his career

Might as well put Gonzo in RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!!!!!!!

This should have been Dt's spot :banghead:

The game was different in those days, which is why I looked at his ranking among fantasy points among his contemporaries. He only cracked the top 3 fantasy point production at his position once. Just not even close to a HOF consideration.

The Old Timer's committee needs to be limited to players before 1970.

Adept Havelock
02-03-2007, 01:22 PM
Please say this is a hoax.

Too soon to tell. Boston police are still investigating.

Buck
02-03-2007, 02:12 PM
Hall of Famers (TE) (Just a Couple Examples)

Charlie Sanders (HOF) - 118 Games, 336 Receptions, 4817 Yards, 31 TDs

Kellen Winslow (HOF) - 109 Games, 541 Receptions, 6741 Yards, 45 TDs

Dave Casper (HOF) - 147 Games, 378 Reception, 5216 Yards, 52 TDs
---------------------------------
Comparing Stats should be a Hall of Famer

Mark Bavaro - 126 Games, 351 Receptions, 4733 Yards, 39 TDs

Kyle Brady - 182 Games, 334 Receptions, 3449 Yards, 23 TDs (maybe)
---------------------------------
On Pace to be a Hall of Famer, If Comparing Stats to HOF TE's

Antonio Gates - 61 Games, 265 Receptions, 3378 Yards, 34 TDs

Todd Heap - 82 Games, 316 Receptions, 3658 Yards, 26 TDs

Alge Crumpler - 94 Games, 274 Receptions, 3768 Yards, 30 TDs
---------------------------------
First Ballot Hall of Famer

Tony Gonzalez - 158 Games, 721 Receptions, 8710 Yards, 61 TDs
---------------------------------

Okay, we all know that TG is a first ballot HOFer, but can we honestly say that Gates, Heap, and Crumpler are Hall of Famers? If they have continued success as they are now sure, but if they drop off and still have comparable numbers what then?

Bavaro needs to be a HOFer, and maybe Kyle Brady. I added Brady because he played 184 games, which is amazing.

Dark Horse
02-03-2007, 02:36 PM
Hall of Famers (TE) (Just a Couple Examples)

Charlie Sanders (HOF) - 118 Games, 336 Receptions, 4817 Yards, 31 TDs

Kellen Winslow (HOF) - 109 Games, 541 Receptions, 6741 Yards, 45 TDs

Dave Casper (HOF) - 147 Games, 378 Reception, 5216 Yards, 52 TDs
---------------------------------
Comparing Stats should be a Hall of Famer

Mark Bavaro - 126 Games, 351 Receptions, 4733 Yards, 39 TDs

Kyle Brady - 182 Games, 334 Receptions, 3449 Yards, 23 TDs (maybe)
---------------------------------
On Pace to be a Hall of Famer, If Comparing Stats to HOF TE's

Antonio Gates - 61 Games, 265 Receptions, 3378 Yards, 34 TDs

Todd Heap - 82 Games, 316 Receptions, 3658 Yards, 26 TDs

Alge Crumpler - 94 Games, 274 Receptions, 3768 Yards, 30 TDs
---------------------------------
First Ballot Hall of Famer

Tony Gonzalez - 158 Games, 721 Receptions, 8710 Yards, 61 TDs
---------------------------------

Okay, we all know that TG is a first ballot HOFer, but can we honestly say that Gates, Heap, and Crumpler are Hall of Famers? If they have continued success as they are now sure, but if they drop off and still have comparable numbers what then?

Bavaro needs to be a HOFer, and maybe Kyle Brady. I added Brady because he played 184 games, which is amazing.

As much as I hate to admit it Shannon Sharpe is probably a 1st ballot guy too.

Rain Man
02-03-2007, 02:38 PM
I'll defend Sanders a bit. He played 10 years and made 7 pro bowls, in an era that had a lot of good tight ends in the NFC such as Jerry Smith, Ted Kwalik, Jackie Smith, and I think Mike Ditka was still playing. He had a reputation for making acrobatic catches. Truthfully, if we want to view Otis Taylor as a candidate, then Charlie Sanders has to be recognized, too.

That said, I do find his selection a bit surprising. An uncontested HoF player was both dominating and had longevity. Historically, the selection committee (which is stupid - see Thomas, Derrick) has tended to value longevity and appearance on a championship roster more than any other factors. Sanders was a standout, but he didn't have longevity, he never played on a championship, and I would've called him "very good" as opposed to "dominant".

Cochise
02-03-2007, 02:42 PM
The problem here is that people who never saw this guy play or maybe never even heard of the guy are evaluating him based on what they looked up on profootballreference.com.

The TE has not always been about catching passes. It's subjective. It's like, how would you argue one offensive lineman over another if both were from the 60s or 70s? If you were born in the 70s or later, then you couldn't pretend to because there are no stats to look up. It's subjective.

RJ
02-03-2007, 02:59 PM
Here is a comparison with two of his contemoraries who played the same position, John Mackey and Jackie Smith. All three are now in the HOF.


Sanders - 128 G, 336 rec, 4817 yards, 31 TD

Mackey - 139 G, 331 rec, 5236 yards, 38 TD

Smith - 210 G, 480 rec, 7918 yards, 40 TD


I guess he compares reasonably well but I don't understand how he "revolutionized" anything. He was a good player on some very bad teams.

Buck
02-03-2007, 03:06 PM
The point is that even though his numbers are comparable, He did not deserve it more than Art Monk or Derrick Thomas. Hell at this point I'd even put Monk and DT in over Thurman Thomas as well, Monk has been waiting a long time. And DT is perhaps one of the greatest OLB's of all time.

DeepPurple
02-03-2007, 10:19 PM
Not that this really matters, but I went through basic training with Charlie Sanders at Ft. Polk, Louisiana in April - June 1970. Our unit was 4 platoons, each with about 40 guys, 160 all total. It was made up of about half reserves and about half regular Army, Charlie was a reservist from Detroit and I was regular Army from Florida.

He was the biggest human I had ever seen in an Army uniform, his legs were as big as my waist. In the first week they made him what they called 'Field First', which meant the four platoon leaders would answer to him and he answered to the drill sergeants. He had his own room while the rest of us slept in open bays. The fourth week of basic we were given a weekend pass and we were allowed to go to Lake Charles, except Charlie was allowed to fly home to Detroit.

After a couple of weeks when we were decent at marching they let Charlie lead the marches and call cadence. The only problem was his steps were so big that when he lead the march, those of us back in the fourth platoon had to run at times to keep in step. He seemed like a nice guy, but really never spoke much. I guess it's good to be a pro football player when your in the Army.

penchief
02-03-2007, 10:29 PM
Not that this really matters, but I went through basic training with Charlie Sanders at Ft. Polk, Louisiana in April - June 1970. Our unit was 4 platoons, each with about 40 guys, 160 all total. It was made up of about half reserves and about half regular Army, Charlie was a reservist from Detroit and I was regular Army from Florida.

He was the biggest human I had ever seen in an Army uniform, his legs were as big as my waist. In the first week they made him what they called 'Field First', which meant the four platoon leaders would answer to him and he answered to the drill sergeants. He had his own room while the rest of us slept in open bays. The fourth week of basic we were given a weekend pass and we were allowed to go to Lake Charles, except Charlie was allowed to fly home to Detroit.

After a couple of weeks when we were decent at marching they let Charlie lead the marches and call cadence. The only problem was his steps were so big that when he lead the march, those of us back in the fourth platoon had to run at times to keep in step. He seemed like a nice guy, but really never spoke much. I guess it's good to be a pro football player when your in the Army.

That is a GREAT story!

I was laughing my ass off when you were talking about trying to keep pace.

I remember my Charlie Sanders bubble gum card.

Halfcan
02-03-2007, 11:10 PM
Too soon to tell. Boston police are still investigating.

ROFL Wow that is a Good One!

cdcox
02-04-2007, 12:24 AM
The problem here is that people who never saw this guy play or maybe never even heard of the guy are evaluating him based on what they looked up on profootballreference.com.

The TE has not always been about catching passes. It's subjective. It's like, how would you argue one offensive lineman over another if both were from the 60s or 70s? If you were born in the 70s or later, then you couldn't pretend to because there are no stats to look up. It's subjective.

The thing is, I was an NFL fan back then. I remember hundereds of players from the '70s. Charlie Sanders, yes, I remember him, but not as a dominant player. At all. Jackie Smith, I remember as being a better TE. I remember thinking, "How could such a good TE drop such an easy pass" (answer, he was washed up for three year prior to dropping the big one).

One reporter today said he revolutionized the TE position. Do a Google search on "Charlie Sanders" and "revolutionized". 59 hits. Do the same search for Kellen Winslow and you get 499. Should a player get to the HOF by being 1/10 the influence of another HOFer?

What I think. He's worked in the Lion's organization ever since retiring. He's a good citizen. Good for him. Does that make him a HOFer? I think the Lions launched a huge PR campaign with the Old Timer's committee and got him the nomination. The voters seem to rubber stamp those guys the last few years. It is a travesty and cheapens the whole HOF.

You can't bullshit in the information age.

Miles
02-04-2007, 12:33 AM
ROFL Wow that is a Good One!

I hope you can see this, because Iím doing it as hard as I can.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/poisondose/ignignot.jpg

|Zach|
02-04-2007, 12:36 AM
I hope you can see this, because Iím doing it as hard as I can.


Hey Miles, you watch any Frisky Dingo?

Miles
02-04-2007, 12:42 AM
Hey Miles, you watch any Frisky Dingo?

Haven't yet but have been meaning to. Sealab guys make it right? Any good?

|Zach|
02-04-2007, 12:44 AM
Haven't yet but have been meaning to. Sealab guys make it right? Any good?
Sealab is a great barometer for it...if you liked that you will like it. Some great parts...great moments...a few episodes are stinkers...the timing and dialouge are excellent.

Extra Point
02-04-2007, 12:46 AM
Hall of Famers (TE) (Just a Couple Examples)

Charlie Sanders (HOF) - 118 Games, 336 Receptions, 4817 Yards, 31 TDs

Kellen Winslow (HOF) - 109 Games, 541 Receptions, 6741 Yards, 45 TDs

Dave Casper (HOF) - 147 Games, 378 Reception, 5216 Yards, 52 TDs
---------------------------------
Comparing Stats should be a Hall of Famer

Mark Bavaro - 126 Games, 351 Receptions, 4733 Yards, 39 TDs

Kyle Brady - 182 Games, 334 Receptions, 3449 Yards, 23 TDs (maybe)
---------------------------------
On Pace to be a Hall of Famer, If Comparing Stats to HOF TE's

Antonio Gates - 61 Games, 265 Receptions, 3378 Yards, 34 TDs

Todd Heap - 82 Games, 316 Receptions, 3658 Yards, 26 TDs

Alge Crumpler - 94 Games, 274 Receptions, 3768 Yards, 30 TDs
---------------------------------
First Ballot Hall of Famer

Tony Gonzalez - 158 Games, 721 Receptions, 8710 Yards, 61 TDs
---------------------------------

Okay, we all know that TG is a first ballot HOFer, but can we honestly say that Gates, Heap, and Crumpler are Hall of Famers? If they have continued success as they are now sure, but if they drop off and still have comparable numbers what then?

Bavaro needs to be a HOFer, and maybe Kyle Brady. I added Brady because he played 184 games, which is amazing.

CAN'T ARGUE ON THAT!

Miles
02-04-2007, 12:48 AM
Sealab is a great barometer for it...if you liked that you will like it. Some great parts...great moments...a few episodes are stinkers...the timing and dialouge are excellent.

Nice sounds like Sealab. Weak at times but when its on, its on.