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View Full Version : Should I get a nissan or toyota?


Smed1065
02-10-2007, 07:40 PM
It is between an Altima and Camry?

Choses and facts.

I have a Camry with 225,000 mile.......Till
Tomorrow!

Joie
02-10-2007, 07:42 PM
Honestly I like the Kia. Affordable and rarely needs to go to the shop. Change it's oil and it's happy.

Phobia
02-10-2007, 07:42 PM
I'm a Nissan guy but Toyota makes a decent driver too. My wife currently drives a Toyota mini-van.

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 07:43 PM
I want the best w/o a driver, bitoch.

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm a Nissan guy but Toyota makes a decent driver too. My wife currently drives a Toyota mini-van.

Nissan then?


Kewl!

scott free
02-10-2007, 07:45 PM
If your going with a Japanese brand, i would say skip the other 2 & go Honda.

Bill Parcells
02-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Toyota has a better 6 cylinder engine than Nissan..but they are both good.

Phobia
02-10-2007, 07:47 PM
If your going with a Japanese brand, i would say skip the other 2 & go Honda.

Honda is good too. If I had an extra $45k lying around I'd drive an Acura MDX.

Spott
02-10-2007, 07:47 PM
I've always gone with Nissan, but I've never had a Toyota. Nissans have always run great for me. Mine has 182,000 miles now and runs perfect.

Marlboro_Chief
02-10-2007, 07:48 PM
Buy American punk.

scott free
02-10-2007, 07:49 PM
If I had an extra $45k lying around I'd drive an Acura MDX.

You & me both, a very sweet ride.

NJ Chief Fan
02-10-2007, 07:49 PM
Buy American punk.
american cars suck ass, go with the nissan

NJ Chief Fan
02-10-2007, 07:51 PM
Neither
your view on cars suck, just like GM

burt
02-10-2007, 07:51 PM
american cars suck ass, go with the nissan

Yeah, my GM product has 165000 miles and still gets me to work every day....needs an alignment though......

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 07:59 PM
Honda is good too. If I had an extra $45k lying around I'd drive an Acura MDX.


so a vote for Honda, even outpriced?

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 08:01 PM
Toyota's quality is going south fast... In fact, their recalls have doubled.

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2005/12/11/recalls_down_overall_but_theyve_doubled_at_toyota/

GM's recalls have dropped by 10%


So an 80 percent of recall? While your argument? LOL

Simply Red
02-10-2007, 08:03 PM
american cars suck ass, go with the nissan
ROFL ROFL ROFL

Sadly I agree... Owned an 04 and 05 Armada until gas skyrocketed to above 3.00 Now own German sedan..

NJ Chief Fan
02-10-2007, 08:03 PM
I've owned an Infiniti G20t and now have a Audi A4 1.8T, and after owning those cars and driving numerous American made cars, I will NEVER buy an American made car PERIOD. THEY SUCK LOOK LIKE ASS AND DRIVE LIKE SHIT

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 08:04 PM
No I said a good car, sorry!

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 08:05 PM
I only have 34,000 to spend at max.....So anti american is the best bet

Phobia
02-10-2007, 08:05 PM
so a vote for Honda, even outpriced?

My vote would be for Nissan or even Toyota. I have zero personal experience with Honda.

recxjake
02-10-2007, 08:06 PM
I only have 34,000 to spend at max.....So anti american is the best bet

HELLOOOO... Saturn Aura XR... CAR OF THE YEAR

Spott
02-10-2007, 08:06 PM
My car is better than your car.

OnTheWarpath58
02-10-2007, 08:12 PM
HELLOOOO... Saturn Aura XR... CAR OF THE YEAR

Opinions vary......

Motor Trends Car of the Year, 2007.....

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2006/112_news061122_car_of_the_year_2007_toyota_camry

recxjake
02-10-2007, 08:13 PM
Opinions vary......

Motor Trends Car of the Year, 2007.....

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2006/112_news061122_car_of_the_year_2007_toyota_camry

The North American Auto Show Winner is MUCH BETTER... why? Because it is a whole panel of expert Auto journalists... not just one magazine.

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 08:14 PM
So japan is the best answer.

Thanks...

recxjake
02-10-2007, 08:16 PM
The Saturn Aura got 205 points; the Honda Fit got 176 and the Toyota
Camry 89 points.---- Clear cut winner by 49 Automotive Journalists

Smed1065
02-10-2007, 08:23 PM
The Saturn Aura got 205 points; the Honda Fit got 176 and the Toyota
Camry 89 points.---- Clear cut winner by 49 Automotive Journalists

I want to outlast to warranty.

Simply Red
02-10-2007, 08:24 PM
go w/ a Ford and be done w/ it!!
:D

Mosbonian
02-10-2007, 08:27 PM
?

I'm saying Toyota's Recalls are going up... And GM's are going down.... pretty simple.....

When are you going to give this up? I would bet that if anyone of us who own Toyota's, Honda's, or Nissan's really cared enough to do the search, I bet that for every complaint about the above models, we could probably find 10 about a GM made car. The only thing GM does well, IMO, is make the big trucks.

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
02-10-2007, 08:29 PM
go w/ a Ford and be done w/ it!!
:D

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

or

Found
On the
Road
Dead

mmaddog
*******
oldies but still goodies

Simply Red
02-10-2007, 08:30 PM
Did I mention my Benz defies gravity?

w/ the suspension lift, in which I just had to replace the hyd. pump to the tune of $830.

:) :banghead:

Bob Dole
02-10-2007, 08:31 PM
Honda is good too. If I had an extra $45k lying around I'd drive an Acura MDX.

You're such a soccer mom.

Simply Red
02-10-2007, 08:33 PM
You're such a soccer mom.


Yep!! What a pussy!

Kidding of course...
;)

Mosbonian
02-10-2007, 08:33 PM
It is between an Altima and Camry?

Choses and facts.

I have a Camry with 225,000 mile.......Till
Tomorrow!

IMO you answer your own question......you have a Camry with 225k miles on it.....it would take 4 GM cars to last that many miles.

I've had nothing but a Camry or a Tacoma since 1990.....the wife drives a 2000 Toyota Siena. The American made autos will cost you in the end.

I have a couple of friends who have Honda's....and they swear by them the same way I do about my Toyota's. I've never been able to swear by an American made auto...just swear AT them.

mmaddog
*******

Bob Dole
02-10-2007, 08:34 PM
The Saturn Aura got 205 points; the Honda Fit got 176 and the Toyota
Camry 89 points.---- Clear cut winner by 49 Automotive Journalists

How did the Mazda CX-7 get 135 and the Ford Edge get 92? Aren't they basically the same vehicle?

penguinz
02-10-2007, 08:49 PM
Just flip a coin. Both are good cars.

DomerNKC
02-10-2007, 11:39 PM
The Saturn Aura got 205 points; the Honda Fit got 176 and the Toyota
Camry 89 points.---- Clear cut winner by 49 Automotive Journaliststhe silverado can't carry the new TUNDRAS' jock strap. When Toyota owns the truck market GM is toast. I don't care how many "Automotive experts" are on GM's payroll then. It is gonna happen sooner than you think rexy baby.

NJ Chief Fan
02-10-2007, 11:42 PM
I lease an 06 Saab 9-3 Aero..... owned by GM... and is much better than the shit you drive.
saabs are fugly buddy, you have no taste in vehicles

morphius
02-10-2007, 11:48 PM
I would probably lean towards the Camry. I like my Altima and haven't had any issues with it, but still wonder if I shouldn't have went with the Toyo.

Deberg_1990
02-11-2007, 12:06 AM
the silverado can't carry the new TUNDRAS' jock strap. When Toyota owns the truck market GM is toast. I don't care how many "Automotive experts" are on GM's payroll then. It is gonna happen sooner than you think rexy baby.


Exactly.....No way the silverado can compete with this:

and Toyota is building them right smack dab in the heart of Truck central: San Antonio Texas.

It wont be long Recxjake....

recxjake
02-11-2007, 01:16 AM
Exactly.....No way the silverado can compete with this:

and Toyota is building them right smack dab in the heart of Truck central: San Antonio Texas.

It wont be long Recxjake....

1st. That thing is ugly.
2nd. Silverado's are made in Fort Wayne, Indiana
3rd... here's the first story I heard about the new Tundras...

"I was coming from work, it was around 10:30pm driving with my music out loud in the Impala when I see a brand new Tundra on the side with emergency lights on and a guy and his kid out, it's extremely cold so I stop to assist you know, to see what was the problem.

Then the shocker came!

The guy says he just bought the truck 3 days ago and he was showing it to his son for the first time, he had been driving all afternoon and everything was working properly but when he was coming back the truck just stoped and did not wanted to start again, he had no signal on his cell so he couldn't call for help.

he was extemely pissed the truck barely had 350 miles on it!! it was a limited and he paid $3,500 markup over the msrp of the truck, then the dilema starts and he says that he shoulda stayed with the brand of his old truck, so I ask what kind of truck he had, so he says I had a 1995 Silverado 2500 with over 200,000 miles. so of course I asked him why he didn't go with the new Silverado, he replies well I saw the edmunds comparassion "you know that website about cars" well they picked the tundra as the best of the bunch and I have always trusted that website so I went with it, I explained him how biased edmunds usually is and back humps most import companies even when their products are lesser than those of the domestics, he agreed that he shoulda atleast given the GM trucks a look and check them out before jumping into the tundra but well he learned his lesson.

tow truck came yada, yada so as he was thanking me he tells me that he was going to go check the Silverado and Sierra tomorrow and that he was done with Toyota

we exchanged phone numbers and he said that he was going to give me a call when he gets his new GM truck, hopefully I just gave GM a new returning custumer."


2007 Truck of the Year... Chevy Silverado...

Dr. Facebook Fever
02-11-2007, 01:18 AM
Buy American punk.
Why? You like seeing your mechanic that much?

Toyota always.

recxjake
02-11-2007, 01:18 AM
To bad Wall Street doesn't agree with you guys...

GM.. Friday up almost 7%

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GM

recxjake
02-11-2007, 01:22 AM
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recxjake
02-11-2007, 01:25 AM
Silverado Vs. Ford...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RFhGRe9CLsE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RFhGRe9CLsE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Pestilence
02-11-2007, 01:30 AM
Buy anything but a Kia......


that's my two cents.

Bob Dole
02-11-2007, 01:37 AM
To bad Wall Street doesn't agree with you guys...

GM.. Friday up almost 7%

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GM

And Wall Street always reflects the best in consumer goods and never involves pure speculation.

recxjake
02-11-2007, 01:39 AM
The Good: Variety of features and options, excellent engine and power train

The Bad: High Price, no flex-fuel, diesel or heavy-duty versions yet

The Bottom Line: Nice truck, but not clearly better than Chevy’s new Silverado

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/autos/...130_509719.htm

Silock
02-11-2007, 02:36 AM
Rex, dude...

Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence.

And your point about recalls isn't really a point at all, seeing that GM still recalled nearly twice the amount of vehicles that Toyota did. Ford set a record in their numbers. Chrysler declined -- guess why? I'll give you a hint: It has a lot to do with the first part of their name.

Silock
02-11-2007, 02:39 AM
The Good: Variety of features and options, excellent engine and power train

The Bad: High Price, no flex-fuel, diesel or heavy-duty versions yet

The Bottom Line: Nice truck, but not clearly better than Chevy’s new Silverado

http://yahoo.businessweek.com/autos/...130_509719.htm


File not found.

Because it is a whole panel of expert Auto journalists... not just one magazine.

I see how it works. You only use what best supports your point at any given moment.

ChiefsFanInIndy
02-11-2007, 03:00 AM
Buy American punk.

I have owned Nissan's since the early 80's. Never put less then 150,000 miles on each one and never did anything other then routine maintanence. And always got at least 26 mpg city and over 30mpg highway.

When they can build an American car as reliable and cost efficient as that, I will consider it.

Rausch
02-11-2007, 03:15 AM
What type of ****ing tard would contemplate a ricer and not pick Honda over Nissan or Yoda?...

penguinz
02-11-2007, 06:24 AM
no flex-fuel


Flex fuel is dumb. E85 sucks.

Braincase
02-11-2007, 06:39 AM
I'm happy for the most part with my 2004 Buick Park Avenue Ultra2... but then again, I only paid 20 grand for it with 23,000 miles. Loaded, and with the Supercharger, when I step on it, it goes.

Long term... unless I can buy the Lucerne the guy bought to replace the BPA for the same price, I'll probably go back to a Honda, although my favorite car for highway driving was an Audi A6 TurboDiesel I took out on the Autobahn for a week.

Spott
02-11-2007, 06:45 AM
I can't believe people are arguing and insulting each other over what kind of cars they like to drive.

GoTrav
02-11-2007, 06:47 AM
Altima hands down. The wife has a 2004 and we love it. Throw in the redesign and you've got a winner. All of this can be had for probably under 27k, loaded.

If your max is 34k then you can even give the Acura TL a look.

StcChief
02-11-2007, 06:51 AM
Altima.....

since the Toyota quality falling apart /rexjake

burt
02-11-2007, 06:52 AM
I hate to disagree with all you experts, since I have ONLY been in the automotive industry for 18 years, but GM vehicles do NOT suck. The one I drive has 165000 miles on it, and the (sorry) Ford that my Mrs. drives has 150000 and we do not have numerous problems nor big repair bills. And IF I were shopping for a new vehicle today, I would check into GM, expecially with the new 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty, with roadside assistance.

Everyone is so quick to say "This brand sucks, that brand sucks, my brand is the ONLY good brand"... Wake up folks, there are lots of great vehicles out there, and you just might not be the all knowing....someone else may just have a valid opinion also. So I am glad that you are having success with you particular brand of vehicle....but that doesn't necessarily mean the others suck. GM is a viable alternative and a great bargain.

ChiefsFanatik88
02-11-2007, 06:54 AM
Buy American!

CrazyHorse
02-11-2007, 07:02 AM
LOL. The experts are at it again.

Dr. Facebook Fever
02-11-2007, 07:07 AM
I can't believe people are arguing and insulting each other over what kind of cars they like to drive.
You've never been on here before have you...

Fairplay
02-11-2007, 07:21 AM
It is between an Altima and Camry?


I have a Camry with 225,000 mile.......Till
Tomorrow!


Lets see. You posted this Saturday.

Today is Sunday.

Car dealers are open today?

Lzen
02-11-2007, 08:25 AM
Altima

Al Bundy
02-11-2007, 08:29 AM
I own a Toyota and my girlfriend owns a Nissan both with 130,000 miles and neither have had any real issues.

manchambo
02-11-2007, 08:41 AM
when did nissan and toyota start making cameros?

Deberg_1990
02-11-2007, 09:09 AM
2nd. Silverado's are made in Fort Wayne, Indiana



I meant the Tundras just started being built in Texas. Toyota wants to win the truck market bad. No better place to do it.


Tundras will be built by Texans for all Americans...

Lzen
02-11-2007, 09:19 AM
I hate to disagree with all you experts, since I have ONLY been in the automotive industry for 18 years, but GM vehicles do NOT suck. The one I drive has 165000 miles on it, and the (sorry) Ford that my Mrs. drives has 150000 and we do not have numerous problems nor big repair bills. And IF I were shopping for a new vehicle today, I would check into GM, expecially with the new 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty, with roadside assistance.

Everyone is so quick to say "This brand sucks, that brand sucks, my brand is the ONLY good brand"... Wake up folks, there are lots of great vehicles out there, and you just might not be the all knowing....someone else may just have a valid opinion also. So I am glad that you are having success with you particular brand of vehicle....but that doesn't necessarily mean the others suck. GM is a viable alternative and a great bargain.

Well said. There are mistakes made by all car companies. One would be wise to research any vehicle before purchasing. I love how one poster said something about his Toyota had 225k miles on it and that it would take 4 GMs to equal that. My 95 Skylark had 140k on it when I got rid of it and bought my Ford F150 a year and a half ago. Never had any major problems with it. To say that all GMs are junk is just idiotic.

By the same token rexjake isn't being completely honest when says that the 07 Silverado is the best. Frankly, I went with the F150 last year because I had been given some information by my cousin (who used to be a care salesman)that Chevy's truck had problems with interior/trim falling apart. Plus, the Ford cabin is stronger, safer, and quieter. The thing we can't say about the 07 Silverado is that it won't have any mechanical problems. That's the only problem with buying a new vehicle. You just don't have much any actual field data.

I do agree with him that the Tundra is ugly. I much preferred the Ford styling, features, and reputation when I bought mine. Not to say that the Toyota would be bad. My FIL has a Tacoma that has about 150k on it. It has been a solid, reliable vehicle for 9 years. However, it isn't running now for some reason.

recxjake
02-11-2007, 09:29 AM
Well said. There are mistakes made by all car companies. One would be wise to research any vehicle before purchasing. I love how one poster said something about his Toyota had 225k miles on it and that it would take 4 GMs to equal that. My 95 Skylark had 140k on it when I got rid of it and bought my Ford F150 a year and a half ago. Never had any major problems with it. To say that all GMs are junk is just idiotic.

By the same token rexjake isn't being completely honest when says that the 07 Silverado is the best. Frankly, I went with the F150 last year because I had been given some information by my cousin (who used to be a care salesman)that Chevy's truck had problems with interior/trim falling apart. Plus, the Ford cabin is stronger, safer, and quieter. The thing we can't say about the 07 Silverado is that it won't have any mechanical problems. That's the only problem with buying a new vehicle. You just don't have much any actual field data.

I do agree with him that the Tundra is ugly. I much preferred the Ford styling, features, and reputation when I bought mine. Not to say that the Toyota would be bad. My FIL has a Tacoma that has about 150k on it. It has been a solid, reliable vehicle for 9 years. However, it isn't running now for some reason.

The majority of reviews, auto journalists, and actual sales suggest that the new Silverado is the best.... The F-150 is a good truck, just not better, the Tundra is just plain ugly!

Lzen
02-11-2007, 09:34 AM
The majority of reviews, auto journalists, and actual sales suggest that the new Silverado is the best.... The F-150 is a good truck, just not better, the Tundra is just plain ugly!

My F150 is a 2003. I don't care for the new F150 styling that they went to in 2005. Anyway, like I said before, it doesn't matter to me what the auto journalists say. There is no way of knowing what, if any, mechanical problems a vehicle may have over it's lifetime. Or other issues like the previously mentioned trim falling apart. That was one issue I did have with my Skylark. Some of the trim fell apart. But overall, it was a very good, reliable vehicle for me for 9 years.

As for the new Chevy truck, I liked the old styling of the Silverado. The new one not so much. To each his own, I guess.

RJ
02-11-2007, 09:42 AM
Every brand of car makes a variety of cars, low end to high end. Every brand makes some excellent products and some not so great products. Choosing by brand isn't a good way to make a buying decision. Pick a model you like and is within your budget from a few manufacturers and research each of those on their own merits, not on the brand reputation.

acesn8s
02-11-2007, 09:51 AM
have you looked into buying an Optima?

morphius
02-11-2007, 09:51 AM
The majority of reviews, auto journalists, and actual sales suggest that the new Silverado is the best.... The F-150 is a good truck, just not better, the Tundra is just plain ugly!
Says the owner of a SAAB, one of the most consistent makers of ugly cars...

Fairplay
02-11-2007, 09:55 AM
have you looked into buying an Optima?



Opium......... Why are you a dealer?

Lzen
02-11-2007, 09:55 AM
Says the owner of a SAAB, one of the most consistent makers of ugly cars...

I agree that SAABs have always been ugly. But from that pic he posted, I don't think that one he has is too bad. I'm kinda surprised, actually.

Silock
02-11-2007, 09:55 AM
To say that all GMs are junk is just idiotic.

I would agree with that. I currently own 3 GM vehicles, '72 Chevelle, a 98 Cavalier and a 98 GMC Jimmy. The Cavalier has over 150k miles and the Jimmy has 200k, and the Chevelle's mileage doesn't count because it's in storage. GM products can certainly last a long time. The problem is the amount of money it takes to keep them running that long and how often things go wrong. I have also owned a Mazda, and 4 different Honda products, and the difference is that none of those cars require(d) the same amount of upkeep that my GM vehicles do.

That doesn't make all GMs bad, nor does it make all Japanese cars great. What we can say with absolute certainty is that foreign cars over the past few decades tend to not require the same amount of upkeep that domestic cars do, which tends to lead to the conclusion that Japanese cars last longer. That's a bit of a misleading statement, because "last longer" can take on many different connotations. Domestic cars are generally cheaper to repair, but the frequency of repairs tend to push some people away.

Then you have blatantly biased guys like Rex throwing out Pro-GM propaganda like it's going out of style, which is having the reverse effect that he would like it to have. I want GM to succeed as an American. Everyone should want that, because the longer GM is in financial trouble, the worse it is for the overall economy. We need GM and Ford to succeed. But they also have to realize that they have to start putting out a better quality products to keep up with other manufacturers that bring their plants here and give American workers great jobs like Nissan, Toyota and Honda do. Maybe they're starting to do that, but you can't just throw out "SATURN AURA CAR OF THE YEAR!" and claim that they've absolutely turned the corner. There's just not enough quantitative or qualitative data to make such a claim.

Personally, I won't be buying another GM product until they can prove to me that they're actually making a better product and that can't be proven for at least a few years down the road.

recxjake
02-11-2007, 10:16 AM
I agree that SAABs have always been ugly. But from that pic he posted, I don't think that one he has is too bad. I'm kinda surprised, actually.

Saab's used to be the ugliest cars ever.... They are in the middle of big transition... the 9-3 is the only good looking car they make right now. They will get a complete makeover in the next 2 years, just like Saturn just got...

Saturn's "oldest car" is the 2006 Saturn Sky... They now have the Astra, Aura, Sky, Outlook, Redesigned Vue and Vue hybrid. If you want a glimpse at the future of GM, look at Satrun.

recxjake
02-11-2007, 10:20 AM
I would agree with that. I currently own 3 GM vehicles, '72 Chevelle, a 98 Cavalier and a 98 GMC Jimmy. The Cavalier has over 150k miles and the Jimmy has 200k, and the Chevelle's mileage doesn't count because it's in storage. GM products can certainly last a long time. The problem is the amount of money it takes to keep them running that long and how often things go wrong. I have also owned a Mazda, and 4 different Honda products, and the difference is that none of those cars require(d) the same amount of upkeep that my GM vehicles do.

That doesn't make all GMs bad, nor does it make all Japanese cars great. What we can say with absolute certainty is that foreign cars over the past few decades tend to not require the same amount of upkeep that domestic cars do, which tends to lead to the conclusion that Japanese cars last longer. That's a bit of a misleading statement, because "last longer" can take on many different connotations. Domestic cars are generally cheaper to repair, but the frequency of repairs tend to push some people away.

Then you have blatantly biased guys like Rex throwing out Pro-GM propaganda like it's going out of style, which is having the reverse effect that he would like it to have. I want GM to succeed as an American. Everyone should want that, because the longer GM is in financial trouble, the worse it is for the overall economy. We need GM and Ford to succeed. But they also have to realize that they have to start putting out a better quality products to keep up with other manufacturers that bring their plants here and give American workers great jobs like Nissan, Toyota and Honda do. Maybe they're starting to do that, but you can't just throw out "SATURN AURA CAR OF THE YEAR!" and claim that they've absolutely turned the corner. There's just not enough quantitative or qualitative data to make such a claim.

Personally, I won't be buying another GM product until they can prove to me that they're actually making a better product and that can't be proven for at least a few years down the road.


I agree with a lot of what your saying... GM's biggest problem is changing customer perception on all of GM's brands. They have turned the corner. They are winning more and more quality awards, have much better styling with a greater detail on interiors, and are looking towards the future with the Chevy Volt plug in hybrid, and all of their hydrogen tech. Hopefully the next few years will prove this to you, and will show all Americans that GM is not the same company it usesd to be.

morphius
02-11-2007, 10:26 AM
I agree that SAABs have always been ugly. But from that pic he posted, I don't think that one he has is too bad. I'm kinda surprised, actually.
I went to SAAB's web site, and they are all pretty bugly.

Mosbonian
02-11-2007, 10:35 AM
Well said. There are mistakes made by all car companies. One would be wise to research any vehicle before purchasing. I love how one poster said something about his Toyota had 225k miles on it and that it would take 4 GMs to equal that. My 95 Skylark had 140k on it when I got rid of it and bought my Ford F150 a year and a half ago. Never had any major problems with it. To say that all GMs are junk is just idiotic..

Lzen:

I think you've actually put 2 posts together to get the above comment in bold. I was the one who said that you would need 4 GM products to make 225k miles. And my Toyota only has 43k miles on it even though I have had it 5 years.

I'm not going to rehash all the issues I've had with Chrysler, GM and Ford products that I have purchased over the years. Suffice to say I've spent more money fixing and keeping those cars running in the short span of times that I have owned each, than I have in the 10+ years I have had Toyotas.


I do agree with him that the Tundra is ugly. I much preferred the Ford styling, features, and reputation when I bought mine. Not to say that the Toyota would be bad. My FIL has a Tacoma that has about 150k on it. It has been a solid, reliable vehicle for 9 years. However, it isn't running now for some reason.

I think the Tundra looks fine...but I prefer the Tacoma. My Tacoma is the old body style before they went a little bigger, but it still serves all the purposes I need it for.

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
02-11-2007, 10:41 AM
I hate to disagree with all you experts, since I have ONLY been in the automotive industry for 18 years, but GM vehicles do NOT suck. The one I drive has 165000 miles on it, and the (sorry) Ford that my Mrs. drives has 150000 and we do not have numerous problems nor big repair bills. And IF I were shopping for a new vehicle today, I would check into GM, expecially with the new 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty, with roadside assistance.

I'm not the "expert" that you are since I don't work in the automotive industry.....but I'm the guy who has to drive the auto every day. And I'm the guy who has to pay for the repairs on the vehicle.

And BTW, gotta love all those warranties.....ever had to use one? When you do, it's like talking to an Insurance Adjuster. They look for every way to say that the "part" or "component" isn't covered.

mmaddog
*******

UteChief
02-11-2007, 10:59 AM
I'm not going to get into the whole my car is better than your car bullshit. I just want to give you a couple of things to think about.

When choosing between a Camry and an Altima both are new models for 2007. With a new model I like to wait two to three years before I would consider buying one. Let them work out the bugs first.

I would also look at resale value. I don't know about the Nissan but the way I understand it the Toyota will holds it's value a little better.

If you like the look I do personally own an 05 Honda Accord. It's just an LX so it doesn't have any bells and whistles just options that now seem to be standard on everything. I have owned it for almost two years and it hasn't had any problems. The only thing I don't like is the pronounced road noise. It seems most Hondas have this problem. My old Tacoma was much quieter.

For 34K you may be into the Acura TL market and you sure would be in the TSX market. I have test driven both and really enjoyed them. The TSX had a lot less room than the TL. I wouldn't consider the TSX if you will have more than two passengers frequently.

I would go for the EX-L Accord V-6. You can get one fully loaded with a navigation system for mid 27s plus tax and licensing. The V-6 has plenty of power and gets great mileage.

Herzig
02-11-2007, 11:55 AM
It is between an Altima and Camry?

Choses and facts.

I have a Camry with 225,000 mile.......Till
Tomorrow!

I like the look of the new redesigned Camry. I've owned 2 Toyotas(93' Camry and 01' Solara) and never really had any major problems with either.

I just bought a 2007 Honda CR-V EX-L and love it. It is currently the hottest car on the market. They have an average 12 days on the lot before they sell. They are in high demand. The other car I was torn between is the New Toyota RAV4...but I didn't like the spare on the back of it but there were other things about it I prefer. All in all, I got more for my money with the CR-V.

Herzig
02-11-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm not going to get into the whole my car is better than your car bullshit. I just want to give you a couple of things to think about.

When choosing between a Camry and an Altima both are new models for 2007. With a new model I like to wait two to three years before I would consider buying one. Let them work out the bugs first.



I think that USED to be true as far as new models, but not anymore. The good thing about redesigns is that they hold their value a little longer and that you don't have to worry about your car looking dated after a year or two.

Herzig
02-11-2007, 12:06 PM
From CR Mag...

"Best & worst in car reliability

Our latest survey forecasts which cars are likely to be troublesome and which will hold up well.

Our 2006 Annual Car Reliability Survey, the largest of its kind, gathered responses on about 1.3 million vehicles from Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org subscribers. These results underpin the most comprehensive reliability data you will find anywhere.

Such a large survey response--30 percent more than in 2005--allows us to provide reliability data on some very recently introduced models, such as the Honda Fit, the redesigned Chevrolet Tahoe, and the Lexus ES350. We can also report on some expensive and low-volume models like the Mercedes-Benz SL and the Porsche 911.

Predicted reliability for 2007 models is our forecast of how well the models that are currently on sale are likely to hold up, based on how they've done in the past. It's based on the reported overall reliability Ratings for the past three model years (2004 to 2006) if the model hasn't changed significantly for 2007. One or two years of reliability data may be used if a model was new or has been redesigned in that period.

Here we give you the first look at our new predicted reliability Ratings for new cars based on this survey, and the models that we expect to be the most and least reliable.

The difference between the best and worst models is striking. For example, the least-reliable vehicle in our survey, the redesigned for 2006 Mercedes-Benz M-Class SUV, is likely to have 10 times as many problems as the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which debuted the same year. Here are some highlights from our survey:

* Several new and redesigned models were very reliable, countering the trend of most models' having more problems in the first year of a new design. Especially notable are some new U.S. models. The Lincoln Zephyr, introduced in 2006, was the second most reliable upscale sedan after the 2007 Lexus ES350. The Zephyr's platform mates, the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan, also new for 2006, scored slightly better than V6 versions of the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. The Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS both scored above average in their first year.

* Above-average first-year reliability for the new Subaru Tribeca makes Subaru the only automaker to have its entire lineup of cars recommended by Consumer Reports. All Subaru's except the WRX STi have better-than-average predicted reliability. The STi is average. Mercedes-Benz, on the other hand, does not have a single model reliable enough to be recommended.

* Nissan's reliability has improved somewhat. Last year, the Quest, Armada, Titan, and especially the Infiniti QX56, all built at Nissan's Canton, Miss. factory, had the worst reliability in our survey. This year, while the predicted reliability of the Armada and QX56 are still about 135 percent worse than the average vehicle, they had half as many problems as they did in last year's survey. The Quest, while still much worse than average this year, had fewer problems than minivans from General Motors.

* Of the 47 vehicles on the most-reliable list, 39 were from Japanese automakers. Six came from the domestic automakers, and one each came from South Korea and Europe. Twenty-one Toyota vehicles earned top ratings. Honda had 11 vehicles at the top of our ratings. Ford, General Motors, and Subaru each had three, Mitsubishi and Nissan each had two, while Hyundai and Mini each had one.

* Of the 45 least reliable models, 19 were European, 20 were from U.S. manufacturers, 5 were Japanese, and 1 was South Korean. General Motors had 12, Mercedes-Benz had 8, Ford and Nissan each had 5, Chrysler and Volkswagen each had 3, BMW and Jaguar each had 2, while Kia, Land Rover, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo each had 1.

In most categories, the best vehicles have much-better-than-average predicted reliability. A few exceptions are among minivans and sporty cars, where the best vehicles rated only better than average. In all categories except small cars, the worst vehicles rated much worse than average. The worst small cars had worse than average predicted reliability. Below is a rundown of how cars fared in each category.


CRUNCHING THE NUMBERS

To help car buyers find trustworthy vehicles, Consumer Reports conducts an extensive reliability survey of its approximately 6.7 million magazine and online subscribers every year. We ask them about any serious problems they have had with their vehicles in the preceding 12 months.

This wealth of responses helps us build comprehensive Reliability History charts for vehicles covering ten model years from 1997 to 2006. They show how well older models are holding up and what types of problems they have had. For new car buyers, we use the Reliability History data to determine our Predicted Reliability Ratings for 2007 models."

scott free
02-11-2007, 12:13 PM
HOLY CRAP!!!

A half a million posts for Herzig.

Simply amazing, how is that even possible???

OnTheWarpath58
02-11-2007, 12:21 PM
* Of the 47 vehicles on the most-reliable list, 39 were from Japanese automakers. Six came from the domestic automakers, and one each came from South Korea and Europe. Twenty-one Toyota vehicles earned top ratings. Honda had 11 vehicles at the top of our ratings. Ford, General Motors, and Subaru each had three, Mitsubishi and Nissan each had two, while Hyundai and Mini each had one.

* Of the 45 least reliable models, 19 were European, 20 were from U.S. manufacturers, 5 were Japanese, and 1 was South Korean. General Motors had 12, Mercedes-Benz had 8, Ford and Nissan each had 5, Chrysler and Volkswagen each had 3, BMW and Jaguar each had 2, while Kia, Land Rover, Porsche, Saab, and Volvo each had 1.


I guess CR is just a bunch of hacks....

Miles
02-11-2007, 12:30 PM
In your price range you may want to take a long look at the Acura TL.

Phobia
02-11-2007, 12:36 PM
HOLY CRAP!!!

A half a million posts for Herzig.

Simply amazing, how is that even possible???
He used to be a posting fool.

burt
02-11-2007, 12:41 PM
I'm not the "expert" that you are since I don't work in the automotive industry.....but I'm the guy who has to drive the auto every day. And I'm the guy who has to pay for the repairs on the vehicle.

And BTW, gotta love all those warranties.....ever had to use one? When you do, it's like talking to an Insurance Adjuster. They look for every way to say that the "part" or "component" isn't covered.

mmaddog
*******

We can agree, you're not the expert that I am :thumb: MOSTLY kidding!!!! And I will say, I am nowhere near the expert that you are on football. That is why I love it here...there are many of you that I love to read when it comes to the Chiefs.

That said, you are living in the past in regards to GM....AND it's warranties. The individual dealership is paid to do a warrantied repair BY GM. If it is a warranty issue, the dealership is guaranteed to be paid, if it is customer pay, the customer MAY elect NOT to do the repair.....the service department gets nothing. The dealer WANTS to have an issue under warranty. And with a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty, our service department will be able to take even better care of our customers

As much as I hate to say it, recxjake is right


GM's biggest problem is changing customer perception on all of GM's brands. They have turned the corner. They are winning more and more quality awards, .

GM is not the company that is was during the 80's and 90's, but "the public" hasn't embraced this fact. People, rightfully so, base their buying decisions on their past. This makes it hard for GM to prove to them what a fine car we produce today, ergo...GM's biggest problem is changing customer perception on all of GM's brands


[They]have much better styling

I currently disagree with this statement....but it appears to be changing. The current Malibu is bland....as are many other GM models...but even that is changing. The next Malibu is very attractive...and there are many future releases that will wow America.

GM is increasing the warranty of it's certified used vehicles this month. Increasing the warranties on certified Toyota's increased the resale valus of Toyota, by leaps and bounds....we expect the same with GM.

Combine the attention to detail, the increase in reliability, projected increase in resale, longer warranty, and the release of exciting body designs, and GM will retain it's #1 position in vehicle sales and continue to be a great value.

With that said, I have nothing but respect for the competitors...Toyota, Honda and Ford(Like I said my Mrs. drives a Ford). I don't disdain anyone that drives one...I still own a Toyota as well. I just have issues with people that disrespect GM based sole on the past. If you would apply the same logic to Toyota and Honda, no one would purchase the, because they had a rust issue in the 80's. Things change......welcome out of the past.


I generally don't "push" my agenda for GM.....and won't in the future, but just wanted a chance to express my humble opinion.

burt
02-11-2007, 12:56 PM
I guess CR is just a bunch of hacks....

CR is a joke.... They colate all kinds of facts and release them like they were inscribed on stone tablets. Facts can be read many ways. For instance,

"We ask them about any serious problems they have had with their vehicles in the preceding 12 months."

What is a serious problem? A/C not working...could be. Tranny falls ou....yea. Engine blows up....again yes. Front end wobble because I hit a curb....absolutely....that is a problem!! Seems like a lot of conjecture and leaves a lot up for interpretation.

How about this statement....."These results underpin the most comprehensive reliability data you will find anywhere."

The remainder of this statement should have been..."Because we at Consumers Reports say so."

I haven't read the forementioned issue, but I wonder how well they regard the Silverado? I don't have many facts to distort, but there are more registered Silverados on the road than ANY other truck manufactured. That is a firm statement on durability....expecially when for the past 20 years Ford has outsold Chevrolet.

I do read CR, and regard it like I do my Dads advice. I listen, think about it...then make my own opinion.

Phobia
02-11-2007, 01:05 PM
CR likes the 06 Silverado. They don't have a lot to say about the 07 yet.

FWIW, I base a lot of my decisions on feedback from CR. I trust them a whole lot more than I trust any individual.

burt
02-11-2007, 01:08 PM
CR likes the 06 Silverado. They don't have a lot to say about the 07 yet.

FWIW, I base a lot of my decisions on feedback from CR. I trust them a whole lot more than I trust any individual.

That's because you and I don't talk often......

scott free
02-11-2007, 01:11 PM
He used to be a posting fool.

When did he have time to teach science??? It must have been quite the phenomenon at the time, i hardly see him here at all yet he still has a 200+ posts per day average.

I think his students got cheated.

burt
02-11-2007, 01:17 PM
When did he have time to teach science??? It must have been quite the phenomenon at the time, i hardly see him here at all yet he still has a 200+ posts per day average.

I think his students got cheated.

I miss your puppies.......

Cave Johnson
02-11-2007, 01:20 PM
When did he have time to teach science??? It must have been quite the phenomenon at the time, i hardly see him here at all yet he still has a 200+ posts per day average.

I think his students got cheated.

Subtract 500K to get his real post count.

scott free
02-11-2007, 01:20 PM
I miss your puppies.......

Their waiting for you on the avatar page.

PS - Theres something vaguely creepy about that post Dale.

burt
02-11-2007, 01:22 PM
Their waiting for you on the avatar page.

PS - Theres something vaguely creepy about that post Dale.

I hear that a lot!!! ROFL

Kerberos
02-11-2007, 02:11 PM
I agree with a lot of what your saying... GM's biggest problem is changing customer perception on all of GM's brands. They have turned the corner. They are winning more and more quality awards, have much better styling with a greater detail on interiors, and are looking towards the future with the Chevy Volt plug in hybrid, and all of their hydrogen tech. Hopefully the next few years will prove this to you, and will show all Americans that GM is not the same company it usesd to be.


My 94 Suburban has 227,000 miles on it and in the last 8 years I've had to put a new axle on the rear, new power steering pump HOSE, 2 new front rotors, and I am ready to buy new tires and a tune up.

In the whole time I have owned it I have put 120,000 miles on it and that is all I have had to do. Axle was a fluke as the pinion bearing was off by 1/1000 of an inch and it caused the pinion to shift just enough to shear the ring.

06 Trailblazer .... Jury is still out. I find that it gets NO better gas milage than my suburban most of the time as it is lucky to get 11MPG in the city with AC running. Hell I get that in my suburban AC or NO AC.

THE ONLY GOOD THING about the Trailblazer is the dealer I bought it from has stood behind EVERYTHING we have found deficient and they have corrected it without question.

I wish I would have talked the WU into looking at an 06 Suburban or YUKON as I thing we would be much happier with it and I am guessing it couldn't get much worse gas mileage than the Trailblazer.

If I was buying a new pickup today I would buy a GMC or a Chevy ONLY because my father in law gets me GMS pricing. Otherwise I would buy an F150 Extended cab 4x4. I have always liked my Ford trucks better than GM's.

.

Herzig
02-11-2007, 02:20 PM
When did he have time to teach science??? It must have been quite the phenomenon at the time, i hardly see him here at all yet he still has a 200+ posts per day average.

I think his students got cheated.

You're right. I cheat with my students everyday. ROFL

DomerNKC
02-11-2007, 09:55 PM
I hate to disagree with all you experts, since I have ONLY been in the automotive industry for 18 years, but GM vehicles do NOT suck. The one I drive has 165000 miles on it, and the (sorry) Ford that my Mrs. drives has 150000 and we do not have numerous problems nor big repair bills. And IF I were shopping for a new vehicle today, I would check into GM, expecially with the new 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty, with roadside assistance.

Everyone is so quick to say "This brand sucks, that brand sucks, my brand is the ONLY good brand"... Wake up folks, there are lots of great vehicles out there, and you just might not be the all knowing....someone else may just have a valid opinion also. So I am glad that you are having success with you particular brand of vehicle....but that doesn't necessarily mean the others suck. GM is a viable alternative and a great bargain.both of your vehicles are older. You sold me a newer chevy (a 2005 Malibu). If that is a representative of the "NEW" GM, no thank you. I'm not militant about it. To each his own. For me there will never be another GM or Ford. Just my .02 worth.

Kerberos
02-12-2007, 04:30 AM
I hate to disagree with all you experts, since I have ONLY been in the automotive industry for 18 years, but GM vehicles do NOT suck. The one I drive has 165000 miles on it, and the (sorry) Ford that my Mrs. drives has 150000 and we do not have numerous problems nor big repair bills. And IF I were shopping for a new vehicle today, I would check into GM, expecially with the new 5 year 100,000 mile drive train warranty, with roadside assistance.

Everyone is so quick to say "This brand sucks, that brand sucks, my brand is the ONLY good brand"... Wake up folks, there are lots of great vehicles out there, and you just might not be the all knowing....someone else may just have a valid opinion also. So I am glad that you are having success with you particular brand of vehicle....but that doesn't necessarily mean the others suck. GM is a viable alternative and a great bargain.

ALL vehicle manufacturers have lemons.

1996 I had a real good friend that had a 93 Toyota (Something?) and she took it to the shop because it was leaking water and running like shit.

Blown head gasket...

Funny thing is.... they could NOT find a reason that it blew.

1 month later she takes it back to the shop because it is leaking water and running like shit.

Blown head gasket...

really funny thing is....they STILL could not find what caused it.

1 month and about a week later she takes it back to the shop because it is leaking water and running like shit.

Blown head gasket.....

They brought is some hot shot mechanic from Toyota corporate to look at it since it is still under warranty for original repair but Warranty on vehicle had expired. Dude cannot figure out what is wrong with it and Toyota would NOT replace the motor. They instead told her this was the last repair they were going to do as it was her fault that it was breaking.

Yea .... Toyota really stepped up to the plate on this one. She never drove a vehicle hard in her whole life.

She ended up trading it in on an Eagle Summit I believe.

Point is that every car manufacturer has problems and yes EVEN Toyota has issues.

Back in early 80's I had a two friends with Chevy Luv pickups that were made by Isuzu and one of them had NOTHING but problems and the other had the BEST truck you can imagine. Both were bought NEW and were almost identicle in every way except color.

Go figure.

So yes I agree with you Dale.

.

Phobia
02-12-2007, 07:27 AM
both of your vehicles are older. You sold me a newer chevy (a 2005 Malibu). If that is a representative of the "NEW" GM, no thank you. I'm not militant about it. To each his own. For me there will never be another GM or Ford. Just my .02 worth.
Ouch. Sorry to hear it, Domer.

recxjake
02-12-2007, 08:15 AM
both of your vehicles are older. You sold me a newer chevy (a 2005 Malibu). If that is a representative of the "NEW" GM, no thank you. I'm not militant about it. To each his own. For me there will never be another GM or Ford. Just my .02 worth.

heck no.... that is one of the oldest relics of the old GM.... the new Malibu coming out later this year is what the New new GM is all about...

http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/prelaunch/

morphius
02-12-2007, 08:24 AM
heck no.... that is one of the oldest relics of the old GM.... the new Malibu coming out later this year is what the New new GM is all about...

http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/prelaunch/
eh. The front is a bit different, but the rest of the style could be labeled as "Car", very dull and lacking in any sort of originality.

Cochise
02-12-2007, 08:25 AM
THE ONLY GOOD THING about the Trailblazer is the dealer I bought it from has stood behind EVERYTHING we have found deficient and they have corrected it without question.

The thing they don't understand is that this isn't good enough. If your car is a piece of garbage but the dealer stands behind it, that still sucks. If I'm taking it in for repairs all the time that the dealer pays for in full, that is still a huge pain in my ass. Not to mention the fact that they still try to squeeze money out of you whenever they can. It'll be your fault, or this portion of the repair is not covered, blah blah blah.

I am not going to make a buying decision based on them promising to fix a POS car over and over for 'free'. I want it to work in the first place.

Phobia
02-12-2007, 08:30 AM
heck no.... that is one of the oldest relics of the old GM.... the new Malibu coming out later this year is what the New new GM is all about...

http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/prelaunch/

Dude, you make excuses for GM so much that you have zero credibility.

I don't know how you get much newer than an '05 model.

If somebody had trouble with the 06 you say "oh man, you should have gotten the 07". If they have trouble with the 07 you say they should wait 6 months for the 08 to be released. That's crap. You always have an excuse for GM. I'm actually a GM guy. I prefer their trucks and SUV's but I never click on your links anymore because it's all hyperbole.

Other than your GM thing, I think you're a pretty decent guy and a good contributor to the site.

Kerberos
02-12-2007, 08:41 AM
The thing they don't understand is that this isn't good enough. If your car is a piece of garbage but the dealer stands behind it, that still sucks. If I'm taking it in for repairs all the time that the dealer pays for in full, that is still a huge pain in my ass. Not to mention the fact that they still try to squeeze money out of you whenever they can. It'll be your fault, or this portion of the repair is not covered, blah blah blah.

I am not going to make a buying decision based on them promising to fix a POS car over and over for 'free'. I want it to work in the first place.


I do see your point on this. The problems I was referring to are cosmetic and more of my wife being and EXTREMELY PICKY FEMALE is more than what I would have given a second thought to. The mechanical quality is fine. We have had ONE problem since we purchased this and it was a DEAD Battery. Warrany replaced it. Other than that it has RUN fine. I am dissapointed in the MPG that sticker has and what I am actually getting. It is NOWHERE near the sticker. Then again I am not as lucky as most of the rest of you that get BETTER than the advertised MPG. :rolleyes:

.

Smed1065
02-12-2007, 08:50 AM
Thanks all for your input, I appreciate it.

I went and drove a Camry, Altima and the Saturn yesterday. I am going to drive a Fusion sometime this week.

Yes car lots in Atlanta are open on Sunday. Heck no football now.

I still have not made up my mind but I believe I want to stay around $25,000 and thats more than I usually spend for a new vehicle.

recxjake
02-12-2007, 09:18 AM
Dude, you make excuses for GM so much that you have zero credibility.

I don't know how you get much newer than an '05 model.

If somebody had trouble with the 06 you say "oh man, you should have gotten the 07". If they have trouble with the 07 you say they should wait 6 months for the 08 to be released. That's crap. You always have an excuse for GM. I'm actually a GM guy. I prefer their trucks and SUV's but I never click on your links anymore because it's all hyperbole.

Other than your GM thing, I think you're a pretty decent guy and a good contributor to the site.

There are products that have not been redone in a lot of years!! They were designed very poorly and are filled with old technolgoy. There is better product out there then these.

Chevy Malibu
Chevy Impala
Chevy Monte Carlo
Buick LaCrosse
Chevy Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Buick Rendevous/ Rainer... these are still available, but are getting replaced with the new crossovers mentioned earlier
H2--terrible interior
Saab 9-5
Saab 9-7
Pontiac Vibe
Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon
The vans made by Chevy, Buck and Saturn have been cancelled... and replaced with the new crossovers
Saturn Ion--- being replaced with Saturn Astra, in a few months

I wouldn't buy any of these... they are either getting cut/ or replaced in the next few months, or at the latest 1 1/2 years... these are terrible... old GM products that were built with emphasis of making it as cheap as possible and not worrying about quality or design. I hate these products because they are what is giving GM such a bad name today. However, you can' redo everything overnight, so I understand.

What I would buy....

Buick Lucerne
Buck Enclave
Saturn Outlook
Saturn Sky
Saturn Aura
Satun Astra
08 Saturn Vue
08 Chevy Malibu
Chevy Silverado
Chevy Tahoe/Suburban/Avalanche
Chevy Vette
Chevy Equinox
Chevy Aveo
08 Caddy CTS
Caddy Escalade/ EXT
GMC Acadia
GMC Sierra
GMC Yukon/XL/Denali
H3
Caddy XLR
Caddy STS
Pontiac G6
08 Pontiac G8
Pontiac Solstice
Pontiac Torrent
Saab 9-3

The only new product I would stay from is the Chevy Cobalt and Pontiac G5... yuck

recxjake
02-12-2007, 09:35 AM
Thanks all for your input, I appreciate it.

I went and drove a Camry, Altima and the Saturn yesterday. I am going to drive a Fusion sometime this week.

Yes car lots in Atlanta are open on Sunday. Heck no football now.

I still have not made up my mind but I believe I want to stay around $25,000 and thats more than I usually spend for a new vehicle.

I can get you a GM supplier discount on a Saturn Aura if your intersted... I can give one out per month... I almost/sorta gave one out last night to the guy that said he was gonna buy an Xterra... I got him to look at the Saturn Vue and is going to look at it Tuesday. But I told him I didn't want to waste it if he was set on the Xterra. I think you would really like the Saturn Aura XR...

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<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HoBXN_F9mYU"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HoBXN_F9mYU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

I priced it out... You can get a Saturn XR...25,000 for 23,800... plus a 500 dollar rebate/ or 2.9% financing... I wouldn't be surprised if the had a conquest rebate either, ask the sales guy for every rebate!

HemiEd
02-12-2007, 09:41 AM
.

Pants
02-12-2007, 09:52 AM
.

You do know what happened post WW2, right?

recxjake
02-12-2007, 09:54 AM
You do know what happened post WW2, right?

The Americans beat the **** out the Japs.

Pants
02-12-2007, 09:56 AM
The Americans beat the **** out the Japs.

Yeah, but I meant after that. It's reason behind the Japanese prosperity post WW2 and why they make some of the best technology now.

Archie F. Swin
02-12-2007, 09:56 AM
Thanks all for your input, I appreciate it.

I went and drove a Camry, Altima and the Saturn yesterday. I am going to drive a Fusion sometime this week.

Yes car lots in Atlanta are open on Sunday. Heck no football now.

I still have not made up my mind but I believe I want to stay around $25,000 and thats more than I usually spend for a new vehicle.

I may be too late, but if you're in the market for a Camry or Altima...please test drive a V6 Sonata. I've heard very very good things. you can get a fully-loaded one (leather, disc changer...all that) for around $21-24k. They are roomier on the inside than both of the other cars and the fit and finish are 1st class. Supposedly the ride is very similar to Camry and they have the best brakes in their class. When I drove the V6, I didn't "drive it like I stole it", but I've heard that these cars haul ass!

I own the 4cyl version...love it

recxjake
02-12-2007, 10:02 AM
I may be too late, but if you're in the market for a Camry or Altima...please test drive a V6 Sonata. I've heard very very good things. you can get a fully-loaded one (leather, disc changer...all that) for around $21-24k. They are roomier on the inside than both of the other cars and the fit and finish are 1st class. Supposedly the ride is very similar to Camry and they have the best brakes in their class. When I drove the V6, I didn't "drive it like I stole it", but I've heard that these cars haul ass!

I own the 4cyl version...love it

No Archie.... he's getting the Saturn Aura!

Archie F. Swin
02-12-2007, 10:21 AM
No Archie.... he's getting the Saturn Aura!
just like you're getting the ChiefsPlanet Peace Prize

HemiEd
02-12-2007, 01:15 PM
Yeah, but I meant after that. It's reason behind the Japanese prosperity post WW2 and why they make some of the best technology now.

They also killed my Uncle that I never had a chance to meet.

DomerNKC
02-12-2007, 04:53 PM
They also killed my Uncle that I never had a chance to meet.sorry to hear that. I do believe they paid for those discressions on 8/06/45 and 8/09/45. A 52 year grudge after nuking them is a little much.

recxjake
02-12-2007, 06:47 PM
It is between an Altima and Camry?

Choses and facts.

I have a Camry with 225,000 mile.......Till
Tomorrow!

I hope you go look at a Saturn Aura, I think you would be surprised.

I can save you atleast a 1,000 bucks!

Bowser
02-12-2007, 06:50 PM
"You should get one of them Hondos, or Soobanoos"

Fairplay
02-12-2007, 06:57 PM
You people should all buy Saturns dammit!!

recxjake
02-12-2007, 07:02 PM
You people should all buy Saturns dammit!!

Amen brother.

Silock
02-12-2007, 07:23 PM
Rex -- The Aveo?

SERIOUSLY?

That car is a total piece of shit.

recxjake
02-12-2007, 07:25 PM
Rex -- The Aveo?

SERIOUSLY?

That car is a total piece of shit.

Not for that price range.... it starts at 10,000 bucks! It's made by GM's Daewoo brand for Chevy... It's much much nicer than the worst car ever made my GM... the cavalier!

Silock
02-12-2007, 07:27 PM
Even if it's much nicer than the Cavalier, it still has a long way to go before it's no longer considered a total hunk of junk. The Cadavalier is BAAAAD. (And yes, I inherited one, so I know first-hand.)

Not to mention it's definitely the ugliest thing on 4 wheels right now.

recxjake
02-12-2007, 07:30 PM
Even if it's much nicer than the Cavalier, it still has a long way to go before it's no longer considered a total hunk of junk. The Cadavalier is BAAAAD. (And yes, I inherited one, so I know first-hand.)

Not to mention it's definitely the ugliest thing on 4 wheels right now.

The Yaris and Fit are't much better! The Aveo is my least favorite new GM car. I think it's getting redone in 09... they just rebadged a Daewoo and put a Chevy bowtie on it and called it an Aveo!

I don't care one bit how the Aveo does... GM probably makes $50 bucks at most on every one of those sold.

Silock
02-12-2007, 09:26 PM
The Fit is actually quite nice. The Yaris, though, I'll agree with you there. The Fit is cheap, but it's solid and dependable. Just lacks any power whatsoever. However, it's immensely fun to drive. Looks like ass, though.

Smed1065
02-13-2007, 12:21 AM
The market seems to be very competitive right now. I have drove the four front-runners I had researched but all seem very comparable after driving all four models from different manufacturers.

I need some input about possible alternatives to the aforementioned cars.

I only buy a new car about every ten years and want to make the best choice based on MY needs.

Other info not previous mentioned.

I am single with no kids.

Usually have three people in the car max at a time.

Hate insurance companies.

Live within 10 miles of work- but in Atlanta that can take 30 minutes each way.

I do like to take road trips still.

I travel out of town about once a month.

My parents are aging (over 70) and I am the only family even remotely close, even though I am the only one that moved away (2000 miles) from my hometown several times.

I am cheap when it comes to cars and insurance.

I am probably going through late life crisis.

I still drive fast but heh, the speed limit was 55 when I grew up.

I appreciate all the input, well most of it anyway!

Still shopping.

88TG88
02-13-2007, 12:25 AM
I am probably going through late life crisis.


:) good luck with that smed

seriously i have a toyota and it works fine. i would recommend it

Smed1065
02-13-2007, 12:36 AM
That is my biggest problem. I have a Camry that is 10 years old but have had NO problems except maintenance and timing belt replacements.

I now am looking for a new car because the repairs that are due like CV joints and repair cost at this point.

I do not need a car this big but feel I am biased because of the 225,000 miles on it and I am use to a decent sized car.

I also do not want to get killed in Atlanta traffic.

I just hope I get as lucky as I did with my present car! I just want to make an informed and wise decision.

Archie F. Swin
02-13-2007, 06:45 AM
That is my biggest problem. I have a Camry that is 10 years old but have had NO problems except maintenance and timing belt replacements.

I now am looking for a new car because the repairs that are due like CV joints and repair cost at this point.

I do not need a car this big but feel I am biased because of the 225,000 miles on it and I am use to a decent sized car.

I also do not want to get killed in Atlanta traffic.

I just hope I get as lucky as I did with my present car! I just want to make an informed and wise decision.

I'll assume you saw post #124 above? :shrug:

Simply Red
02-13-2007, 07:07 AM
Rex likes the Nissans, I think you should go w/ it...

Phobia
02-13-2007, 07:12 AM
Smed, do you need me to look anything up for you on Consumer Reports?

recxjake
02-13-2007, 07:19 AM
I feel as if I'm on mute in this theard. :( Mr. Smed, I can save you $$! Go with somthing new and hip. Sure you can get another boring ass Toyota, but Toyota are's going out of style. What goes up must come down. Mr. Smed, Saturn is rising. Backed with the GM 100,000 mile warranty, you don't have anything to worry about. You PM me and I can get you a discount of atleast $1,000 bucks on a Aura of your choice!

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recxjake
02-13-2007, 07:27 AM
I've done some more thinking... have you thought about the Chevy Impala?

http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/12/bac...rtner=yahootix

A Detroit car came within a whisker of outselling Honda’s Accord last month. In fact, if you count those sales a certain way, the car did outsell the Accord, and it trails only Toyota’s Camry in the race for the best seller in America.

I am talking about the Chevrolet Impala, a big husky sedan that General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) builds in Ontario, Canada, but we still consider it a Detroit car. If nothing else, the Impala shows that the home team can compete.

Almost unnoticed, GM’s Impala has been a strong and steady performer. It has been on the “Recommended” list of Consumer Reports magazine. Impala is an old Chevy name, taken after the African antelope, as you probably guessed from the familiar emblem. Years ago, GM dropped the name in one of Detroit’s silly name-killing sprees, and then revived it on a 2000 model. Note that now Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) is bringing back the Taurus name.

Despite all its success, the Impala seem less than beloved by GM executives. This car does not fit their ideas of what makes for a winner today.



Best-Selling Sedans in the U.S


January 2007
January 2006

Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ) Camry
31,461
27,440

Honda (nyse: HMC - news - people ) Accord
25,714
27,440

Chevy Impala
25,275
21,648

Nissan (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ) Altima
24,394
16,758

Source: Automotive News

Now here is the trick. The Impala comes only as a four-door sedan; no coupe, no convertible and no crossover. But Chevy sells a two-door coupe called the Monte Carlo, which is nothing but a two-door Impala with a fancy name. If you throw in Monte Carlo sales, then the January Impala total is 26,814, which puts it ahead of Accord and second to Camry. OK, unlike the Japanese, GM sells more of those cars to fleet buyers, but the Impala is still a sales success.

January was no fluke. Look at all last year’s numbers:


Sedan Sales 2006

Toyota Camry
448,445

Honda Accord
354,441

Chevy Impala
289,868

Nissan Altima
232,457

Ford Taurus
174,803

Source: Automotive News

Again, if you toss in those Monte Carlo coupes, then the Impala total is 323,981. Sales of the Honda Accord are likely to slow in 2007 (it is the last year for the present model), so I think that the Impala will be on its tail all year.

Those Monte Carlo coupe numbers used to run 65,000 to 70,000 a year. For the last two years, they have fallen to 35,000; the January rate was half that again. Some attribute this to the decline in the coupe business. Others say the Impala, which GM dolled up for 2006, became more attractive and is winning coupe buyers. Others say that Chevy has been pumping its marketing money into other vehicles--the new Silverado pickup, the HHR little wagon and the sport utility vehicles--and short-changing the Monte Carlo. That is what I believe.

That Impala is big, but not pricey. It weighs a few hundred pounds more than the Camry and Accord, carries a V-6 or a V-8 engine; the V-8 accounts for about 10% of the sales. All its rivals carry four- and optional six-cylinder engines, and most of the sales are with the smaller four motors. A typical Impala price is $22,000, and that is for a V-6. The Japanese get that much for a car with a four-cylinder engine. This makes the Impala something of a bargain.

Silock
02-13-2007, 07:36 AM
I'm sure the last Britney Spears album outsold the last Rolling Stones album, but it doesn't make her music better.

Archie F. Swin
02-13-2007, 07:49 AM
I feel as if I'm on mute in this theard.

STFU
"gasp!"
%(/

recxjake
02-13-2007, 07:53 AM
I'm sure the last Britney Spears album outsold the last Rolling Stones album, but it doesn't make her music better.

oh I totally agree.... however this guy said that he is looking for a good deal and a quality car.... If you you with the Impala, you are going to save a heck of a lot of $$$ compared to a Toyota or Honda

Archie F. Swin
02-13-2007, 07:58 AM
Have you, Halfcan and Believer considered a threesome? Imagine the zeal!!!!

morphius
02-13-2007, 08:02 AM
recxjake - That is the biggest bunch of BS ever, the Monte Carlo looks NOTHING like the Impala, NOTHING like it. To try to include it is just plain pathetic!

I could have got a Camry SE 4 cyl (that comes with a lot of options) a year and a half ago for ~17k. So don't even try to sell that off as 22k, that is just sad man.

At least if you are going to try to sell people on your product of choice, don't lie to them.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 08:06 AM
recxjake - That is the biggest bunch of BS ever, the Monte Carlo looks NOTHING like the Impala, NOTHING like it. To try to include it is just plain pathetic!

I could have got a Camry SE 4 cyl (that comes with a lot of options) a year and a half ago for ~17k. So don't even try to sell that off as 22k, that is just sad man.

At least if you are going to try to sell people on your product of choice, don't lie to them.

1st. I didn't write the article.

2nd. The reason they included the Monte Carlo and Impala together is because they share the same platform. In the automotvie world. that is everything because it really helps to bring costs down. The guts of the Impala and Monte Carlo are exaclty the same. You can mold metal to look however you want.

morphius
02-13-2007, 08:20 AM
1st. I didn't write the article.

2nd. The reason they included the Monte Carlo and Impala together is because they share the same platform. In the automotvie world. that is everything because it really helps to bring costs down. The guts of the Impala and Monte Carlo are exaclty the same. You can mold metal to look however you want.
It is a stupid article, and just full of BS. It is good to see Monte numbers plummeting, that is one of the ugliest cars ever, and the less that are sold, the less I have to see them.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 08:25 AM
It is a stupid article, and just full of BS. It is good to see Monte numbers plummeting, that is one of the ugliest cars ever, and the less that are sold, the less I have to see them.

The Monte Carlo is done after this year, and the Impala is going to be completely redone next year.

morphius
02-13-2007, 08:32 AM
The Monte Carlo is done after this year, and the Impala is going to be completely redone next year.
Didn't they just do a rebuild of it last year, that you went on and on about how cool it was going to be? I'm beginning to wonder how much smaller then can make it and still try to pass it off as an Impala.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 08:38 AM
Didn't they just do a rebuild of it last year, that you went on and on about how cool it was going to be? I'm beginning to wonder how much smaller then can make it and still try to pass it off as an Impala.

No, they did a mild refresh... basically put a new grill on and changed the back taillights..... coming next year will be a completely new car on a completely new platform. I'm not sure if you have seen the new Malibu that will be out later this year, but It's going to be bigger than that. I've heard that it will be RWD and will have retro touches. To be honest, the next Impala will make or break or GM. GM must have a car that can go toe to toe with Toyota. I'm hoping for a good one!

morphius
02-13-2007, 08:44 AM
No, they did a mild refresh... basically put a new grill on and changed the back taillights..... coming next year will be a completely new car on a completely new platform. I'm not sure if you have seen the new Malibu that will be out later this year, but It's going to be bigger than that. I've heard that it will be RWD and will have retro touches. To be honest, the next Impala will make or break or GM. GM must have a car that can go toe to toe with Toyota. I'm hoping for a good one!
I believe they did make the Impala shorter, so it was more then just a minor update, I wouldn't use the term upgrade. You were also pimping how great the new interior is.

The Impala should be competing with the Avalon, not the Camry, IMO. But the Malibu is so blah that people seem to be skipping it and going for the Impala.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 09:00 AM
I believe they did make the Impala shorter, so it was more then just a minor update, I wouldn't use the term upgrade. You were also pimping how great the new interior is.

The Impala should be competing with the Avalon, not the Camry, IMO. But the Malibu is so blah that people seem to be skipping it and going for the Impala.

You're right about the interior, they did refine that. But the car didn't get any shorter because it's on the same platform.

You're right, the Aura and 08 Malibu will compete with the Camry, and the Impala will go after the bigger ones.... Yes the current Malibu is just awful!

morphius
02-13-2007, 09:15 AM
What is the reason that the Volt will only be able to get 40 miles on a charge? This has really been bothering me, especially considering that the new boys on the block, Tesla Motors, have one out that gets 250.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 09:37 AM
What is the reason that the Volt will only be able to get 40 miles on a charge? This has really been bothering me, especially considering that the new boys on the block, Tesla Motors, have one out that gets 250.

70% of Americans drive less than 40 Miles a day. It has to do with battery size. Sure, you can make it go several hundred, but that's going to affect several things like cost, weight, etc. Electricity is 1/3 the price of gasoline.

"For a customer driving about 40 miles a day or about 15,000 miles a year, compared to a 30 mpg car, the Volt would save about 500 gallons of gasoline per year. If the car is charged every night, the driver should be able to achieve that mileage using virtually no gasoline. That same example would also save 4.4 metric tonnes of CO2 every year from each car. Another example of a driver commuting 60 miles a day would achieve an equivalent mileage of 150 mpg based on the engine running for the last 20 miles in a charge sustaining mode. As the driver's mileage drops down toward that 40 mile threshold, the equivalent mileage rises toward infinity. The ICE/generator combo has enough power to keep the car going when cruising at 70 mph and after the 30 minutes of running, the battery will be completely topped up."

morphius
02-13-2007, 09:54 AM
70% of Americans drive less than 40 Miles a day. It has to do with battery size. Sure, you can make it go several hundred, but that's going to affect several things like cost, weight, etc. Electricity is 1/3 the price of gasoline.

"For a customer driving about 40 miles a day or about 15,000 miles a year, compared to a 30 mpg car, the Volt would save about 500 gallons of gasoline per year. If the car is charged every night, the driver should be able to achieve that mileage using virtually no gasoline. That same example would also save 4.4 metric tonnes of CO2 every year from each car. Another example of a driver commuting 60 miles a day would achieve an equivalent mileage of 150 mpg based on the engine running for the last 20 miles in a charge sustaining mode. As the driver's mileage drops down toward that 40 mile threshold, the equivalent mileage rises toward infinity. The ICE/generator combo has enough power to keep the car going when cruising at 70 mph and after the 30 minutes of running, the battery will be completely topped up."
But it is a lot of that 30% who would be looking for the savings that this could give them. I have to say that I'm a lot more interested in the Tesla 4 door Sedan then I am the volt. But it seems silly to me that GM with all their years in electric vehicles could only pull out 40 mpg when I think some people are doing near that in their garage with home built plug in toyo hybrids.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 10:36 AM
But it is a lot of that 30% who would be looking for the savings that this could give them. I have to say that I'm a lot more interested in the Tesla 4 door Sedan then I am the volt. But it seems silly to me that GM with all their years in electric vehicles could only pull out 40 mpg when I think some people are doing near that in their garage with home built plug in toyo hybrids.

40 mpg?... no it ends up being 150 mpg!... The 70% won't have to ever use gas unless they go over 40 miles a day.

morphius
02-13-2007, 10:37 AM
40 mpg?... no it ends up being 150 mpg!... The 70% won't have to ever use gas unless they go over 40 miles a day.


Sorry, typo, 40 mpc (charge), hehe.

recxjake
02-13-2007, 10:47 AM
Sorry, typo, 40 mpc (charge), hehe.

My only guess is that they want to keep the price down. They are targeting the price to be around 20,000. I think that the 70% of americans who drive less than 40 miles a day will love the fact that in theory they will never have to buy gas again. And the other 30% of Americans will like the fact that they will be getting 150 MPG! For 20,000 that is a great deal.

GM has said that they could produce it now, but it would cost 35,00 for a Cobat sized car.... The next 2 years will be spend refining the battery technolgy... and in 2009 you will be able to get one.