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BigRock
02-15-2007, 02:06 AM
About a week ago, didn't the Star quote LJ saying that he wasn't worried about his contract, and that he was more interested in a Super Bowl than winning a "richest man alive" contest? I mean, I didn't dream that, did I? Now with this column and a Teicher article both running today, all of a sudden they're acting like LJ is telling Carl to show him the money.

WTF? :shrug:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/16700590.htm

JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY
Consider trading him

No one asked me, but just in case Carl Peterson and Clark Hunt would like to know where I stand: I’d consider trading Larry Johnson rather than handing him a lucrative contract extension.

Seriously. Oh, I respect what Larry Johnson has accomplished the last two years, back-to-back 1,700-yard seasons, consecutive Pro Bowl appearances and 37 touchdowns.

Larry is owed big money. He’s earned it. You could make a pretty strong argument he’s the NFL’s second-best running back after LaDainian Tomlinson.

I just wouldn’t be in a rush to be the general manager or owner who gave L.T.-type money to L.J. And I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be the coach forced to deal with L.J.’s T.O.-like behavior, especially after that behavior gets protected with close to $20 million in guaranteed bonuses.

The Chiefs have a big decision to make this offseason, and there’s no reason we should act as if reworking Larry’s contract way north is a no-brainer. It’s not.

Larry is far from the most popular player in the Chiefs’ locker room with the players. He’s aloof, moody and constantly distracted by his desire to be misunderstood and to be a member of Jay-Z’s posse.

“If they give him a huge contract, they’ll create a monster,” one Chiefs player told me this offseason. “And I told Herm that.”

Johnson, according to another teammate, can be a disruptive force in locker-room chemistry. The team’s most valuable and important player, according to a teammate, oftentimes sits in meetings text messaging friends and associates.

We all know Larry loves to make headlines with tell-all interviews. He went on HBO this season and claimed that it was easier for him to play for a black head coach because Herm Edwards knows what it’s like to, among other things, go to nightclubs in the ’hood.

Larry also finds it easier, I assume, to question the offensive strategy of a black head coach who bends over backward trying to satisfy the ego of his star running back, because L.J. had little trouble throwing Edwards and the coaching staff under the bus after Kansas City’s playoff loss.

Three years ago, when the Chargers made Tomlinson the richest running back in the history of the league with a $60 million contract and $20 million in guaranteed bonuses, here’s what the Chargers’ team president was quoted saying about L.T.:

“LaDainian represents everything you want from a player. He is our role model. Every young player should aspire to be like L.T., the way he carries himself on and off the field. He has demonstrated he can do and will do what it takes to be a winner and to be the best.”

Could Carl Peterson say that about L.J. with a straight face?

No way. (FYI: I attempted to contact Peterson and Edwards on Wednesday. They were both legitimately unavailable. Peterson, I was told, was out of town. Edwards, I was told, spent most of Wednesday in meetings with the scouting department.)

But the reasons to consider trading L.J. go deeper than just the quirks in his personality, deeper than the possibility that he might be the next T.O. or Randy Moss.

Johnson carried the ball an NFL-record 416 times last year. In the history of the league, nine running backs have accumulated 390-plus carries in a season. Only one, Eric Dickerson, continued to ascend after toting the rock that many times. Everyone else faded quickly.

Is L.J. the next Eric Dickerson, a terrific player and locker-room cancer with the Rams, Colts, Raiders and Falcons?

Or is L.J. the next Eddie George, Jamal Anderson, Terrell Davis or James Wilder?

The one thing I really respect about Johnson is his brutal honesty. He doesn’t hide who he wants to be. As soon as the season was over, he high-tailed it to New York to get to work on whatever it is he wants to do with rapper Jay-Z.

I mean, really, there were two certainties when this season ended: Tiki Barber would begin his career as a broadcaster, and Larry Johnson would be in New York working on his street cred and Roc-A-Fella hand signals.

In pursuit of a new contract, some athletes wouldn’t be nearly as truthful as L.J. They would sneak off to New York while telling everyone about their elaborate plans to rest up and begin a new training regime with their own specialist, Bay Bay McWorkout. They might even invite a television crew to tape them while they push a mobile home on a giant treadmill.

L.J. is going to skip the publicity tour. He believes he has all the leverage he needs. Tony Gonzalez will be 31 in a couple of weeks. Trent Green is still woozy. Dante Hall has fallen and can’t get up. Jared Allen is headed to jail.

L.J. is Kansas City’s lone, unblemished, in-his-prime star. Herm Edwards’ whole plan of attack falls apart without a punishing running back.

The Chiefs have to pay Larry Johnson.

No they don’t. Not if another team is willing to offer something resembling fair value (a top-12 draft pick and a defensive starter or wide receiver). You can find and develop young running backs quickly.

Finding, developing and maintaining a Super Bowl-level chemistry is a lot more elusive, especially when you have a potential T.O. or Randy Moss in your locker room.

I’m not saying the Chiefs should trade Larry Johnson. I’m saying they should consider doing it.

Mecca
02-15-2007, 02:23 AM
I said this awhile back....his value will never be higher and odds are he's going to decline very fast. We give him some huge new 7 year deal we likely end up with a highly paid unproductive player for alot of that contract.

ChiefFan31
02-15-2007, 02:26 AM
That is a good article. I disagree with nothing in it.

LJ, I'm still not sure about. I Love what he does for my team though on the field, that's for sure.

Smed1065
02-15-2007, 02:40 AM
Said Johnson’s brother Tony, who handles many of his marketing and personal affairs.

“His work ethic will go through the roof when that day comes or if it comes.”
--------------------------------------------------
If he wants a contract like LT, I would wait it out and see if he can block and catch like LT next year. IMO

Next year will also allow us to see if the carries factor is a concern as well as his attitude.

Sure it would cost us more in the long run but if he does not have a through the roof work effort besides contract worries, then be it.

This statement worries me made by his brother, maybe he just sucks with the press as well.

kcfanXIII
02-15-2007, 02:43 AM
i doubt he declines at any more rapid a rate than our o-line. LJ's production will be directly related to the talent in front of him. if we sign him, we need to fix the line that will block for him.

Otter
02-15-2007, 02:55 AM
You can find and develop young running backs quickly.

That's about the only part I have a problem with, I mean, has Whitlock been around since Marcus left?

I still don't know if JZ is a rapper or a line of clothing however.

Guru
02-15-2007, 03:11 AM
I said this awhile back....his value will never be higher and odds are he's going to decline very fast. We give him some huge new 7 year deal we likely end up with a highly paid unproductive player for alot of that contract.
I thought of you when I read this.

I still think he would love to be playing in New York. Especially with Tiki out of the picture now.,

Direckshun
02-15-2007, 03:28 AM
Well, let's not kid ourselves. LJ is a hell of a runner, but he is a liability in the passing game.

Guy deserves a better contract, but let's not pretend he deserves the best one.

HMc
02-15-2007, 04:36 AM
Its all about the line. LJ is NOT LT and he's not worth anything near what a franchise QB is. He's got 3 productive years left if that, by the time this team has the coaching and the players required to get it done he'll be buggered. Let's not spend 4 mill a year on his signing bonus, that we have to eat after he breaks down.

HMc
02-15-2007, 04:37 AM
That said this WONT happene becuase LJ is going to help keep them at 9-7 for 2 or 3 years and ergo, the seats full.

Kerberos
02-15-2007, 04:39 AM
We need to stop listening to Fatlock and remember who are bread and butter is.

Remember what LJ did in 05 with a great line in front of him?

I believe that if we get him a line the is 3/4 of what he had in 05 he will be a different player. I do think he was upset most of the season but I am not sold that he is a cancer as Fatlock claims or at least at the level he is claiming.

:shake:

.

BigRock
02-15-2007, 04:55 AM
So who are they supposed to trade him to? Who doesn't know how many carries LJ had last season? Whitlock lays out this case to move him, but then says it should only happen if the Chiefs get a trade offer that, based on his own column, a team would have to be retarded to offer.

Whitlock sure doesn't seem to like Larry, BTW. LJ must have ignored him when Jason begged for Beyonce's number.

Mile High Mania
02-15-2007, 05:29 AM
I can't say that it's a bad idea... if there is one thing that is easier to find in the draft, it's a RB these days.

BigRedChief
02-15-2007, 06:44 AM
If we can get one of these: a starting OT, WR and or a DT and a top Ten pick I'd pull the trigger.

We don't have a legitamate shot at a Super Bowl next year. Thats just another year he can get injured or get beaten up too much. His trade value will never be higher right now. We need to rebuild. We have already seen how far being a one dimensional team can take us in the playoffs.

And anyone who hasn't seen some T.O. and Randy Moss type behaviour in LJ hasn't been paying attention

But on the other hand its one of the best moves King Carl has ever made so he won't be pulling the trigger. He needs to keep him around to remind us that every 5 years he does something really good.

RedNeckRaider
02-15-2007, 06:48 AM
When I read the headline my first thought was Whitlock is just selling papers. I have very little respect for him as a reporter and wonder how he landed a gig in a major market. The same could be said about several in the media I guess. Anyway what he says is interesting. The Chiefs need to look at the team and access if they are a couple players away or in a rebuild situation. I feel they are in need of some rebuilding and trading this guy would be a good move IMO.

BigRedChief
02-15-2007, 06:53 AM
I have very little respect for him as a reporter and wonder how he landed a gig in a major market.
What makes you think KC is a major market for a journalism playa?

RedNeckRaider
02-15-2007, 07:02 AM
What makes you think KC is a major market for a journalism playa?
ROFL I have never been called a playa, that means I'm cool right? Anyway yes KC is a small market among the big markets but it is still in that class. The Chiefs and Royals gives KC two of the big three.

Baconeater
02-15-2007, 07:02 AM
I'm tempted to climb up on my soapbox and rant about getting players who aren't committed to winning out of the organization, but I'm starting wonder how many players really are committed anymore. Many seem to be distracted by the fame and fortune. Nevertheless, I'm sure Carl will throw money at him because he puts butts in the seats.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 07:07 AM
And anyone who hasn't seen some T.O. and Randy Moss type behaviour in LJ hasn't been paying attention

I don't think the general public knows the half of it, either. Whitlock did put out a few things in the article (his texting, general dislike in the locker room) through his anonymous sources, but the organization has done a pretty good job of keeping the negative press around LJ contained up to this point. If he's here next year and most of our veterans are also here next year, I predict that you'll be hearing quite a few more people comparing LJ to TO.

HonestChieffan
02-15-2007, 07:21 AM
I agree 100% that the Chiefs need to trade LJ and get all they can. He has added very little other than his running. And we need a guy who can run and catch and gain yards after the catch. His blocking sucks. And his gang banger attitude and bad head will be nothing but a cancer for this team in the future.

Say goodbye to LJ soon.

siberian khatru
02-15-2007, 07:26 AM
Not if another team is willing to offer something resembling fair value (a top-12 draft pick and a defensive starter or wide receiver). You can find and develop young running backs quickly.

This seems contradictory. If you can find and develop young running backs quickly, why would a team surrender a top-12 pick and a starting player to acquire a RB coming off a historic workload?

I guess you can always hope there's another Minnesota (Herschel Walker) or Washington (Clinton Portis) willing to go that route, but ...

Phobia
02-15-2007, 07:27 AM
Yeah, I don't think the Chiefs should consider trading him, I think they should definitely pursue it. No doubt in my mind. Let Coughlin coach him and see how much energy he has left to flap his jaws to the press.

Count Zarth
02-15-2007, 07:36 AM
I wonder which Chiefs player is responsible for that quote? Very interesting.

Comparing him to TO is ridiculous.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 07:37 AM
I wonder which Chiefs player is responsible for that quote? Very interesting.

Take your pick, it's the sentiment of about half the team from what I've heard.

dirk digler
02-15-2007, 07:38 AM
Yeah let's trade LJ who is undoubtedly by far the best player on our team. :rolleyes:

LJ isn't even close to being TO.

Count Zarth
02-15-2007, 07:42 AM
Honestly, people complain about LJ while putting LT on a pedestal, but when has LJ ever done anything remotely classless like what LT did at the end of SD's playoff game?

siberian khatru
02-15-2007, 07:45 AM
Honestly, people complain about LJ while putting LT on a pedestal, but when has LJ ever done anything remotely classless like what LT did at the end of SD's playoff game?

That was a one-time thing born in the heat of the moment and extreme disappointment. Not excusing it at all -- I think LT acted like an ass -- but it shows the context.

LJ is constantly bitching about something, I guess to "motivate" himself. And now we find out he's a cancer in the lockerroom.

Besides, what's more classless -- LT trying to defend his team or LJ wasting his team's time texting folks while in meetings?

geronimo
02-15-2007, 07:47 AM
trade him to Dallas for marion barber, a young upcoming wr miles austin, a draft pick and an OT (but not a TO).

BigRedChief
02-15-2007, 07:49 AM
trade him to Dallas for marion barber, a young upcoming wr miles austin, a draft pick and an OT (but not a TO).
I'd take that but Dallas won't do that trade. They were on the good side of the Walker trade they know better.

Brock
02-15-2007, 07:50 AM
Yep. It's unfortunate, but this guy is an asshole.

ct
02-15-2007, 07:50 AM
We will not trade LJ, nor should we trade LJ. Whitlock's statement that it's easy to find/develop young RBs is ludicrous. Has he forgotten who's running this team? How many Donnell's, Hill's, Shehee's do we need to go through before they found LJ? Priest and Marcus were great RBs, did he forget we did not draft them?

I don't want to, but if a team like Cleveland were stupid enough to offer us #3/4 overall for him (pending coin flip), I'd do it and take Peterson, the only guy in this draft even close to the potential of LJ. But ain't no way that will happen.

Kclee
02-15-2007, 07:52 AM
LJ to the Texans for Carr and their 1st rounder. It makes perfect sense.




Someone had to start it... :)

Pushead2
02-15-2007, 07:52 AM
I think it's a good idea in a sense. But I mean....this guy has put up big numbers one year with a good line and one year without a good line. As of right now he's our bread and butter. Can we say that about Sammie Parker? Eddie Kennison? Our starting QB for that matter??? If is a "gang banger" as it says , the guy hasn't gone to jail while being on the Chiefs like other players or like other teams. It's good in theory, but I KC should draft a RB soon because Down Hill Runners unless they have a good line year after year don't last very long and Bennett can't stay healthy , Priest is in limbo and Dee Brown is in Europa.

RedNeckRaider
02-15-2007, 07:53 AM
Honestly, people complain about LJ while putting LT on a pedestal, but when has LJ ever done anything remotely classless like what LT did at the end of SD's playoff game?
FWIW I don't really see what LT did as classless. Heat of the moment thing much like what DT did against Denver years ago and I have never heard him called classless. Anyone who has competed in contact sports has lost their temper at one time or another. Some handle it better than others I guess.

The Poz
02-15-2007, 07:54 AM
trade him to Dallas for marion barber, a young upcoming wr miles austin, a draft pick and an OT (but not a TO).

Or to NY for Brandon Jacobs, either David Tyree or Tim Carter and a draft pick.
I'm sure that'll make LJ happy.

Jacobs and Bennett would make a great combo for us. As long as Bennett stops getting injured while racing linemen.

StcChief
02-15-2007, 07:54 AM
That was a one-time thing born in the heat of the moment and extreme disappointment. Not excusing it at all -- I think LT acted like an ass -- but it shows the context.

LJ is constantly bitching about something, I guess to "motivate" himself. And now we find out he's a cancer in the lockerroom.

Besides, what's more classless -- LT trying to defend his team or LJ wasting his team's time texting folks while in meetings?

LJ really doesn't want to play here, isn't it obvious. Trade while his value is high....

Can we be the next Donxs and make a RB the plug and play position.

KC mgmt issue... Check all cell phones at the meeting door....Nothing can't wait until the meeting is over.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 07:56 AM
KC mgmt issue... Check all cell phones at the meeting door....Nothing can't wait until the meeting is over.

That is supposed to be the rule (no cell phones). I think that's why it's such an issue. No one else is allowed their cell phone, but LJ is.

Woodrow Call
02-15-2007, 08:03 AM
If Bennett could stay healthy, I wouldn't have a problem with it all.

wutamess
02-15-2007, 08:04 AM
RAIDERS: I'd take Randy Moss & their 1st trade down to pickup another 2nd.

That'll be 2 first rounders & 2 second rounders.

LJ can be as bad as he wants to be.

Makes perfect sense (Huard & Moss).

Only problem is, who's going to be our running back? :hmmm:

Chief Nute
02-15-2007, 08:07 AM
I have always believed that a running back is only as good as the line in front of him. Larry is a nice running back, dont get me wrong.

Let me see if I can word this correctly......

There have been A LOT more "marginally" talented running backs that have looked like superstars playing behind a GREAT offensive line than there have been GREAT running backs that have looked great behind a WEAK offensive line.

I think my best example of the former is Terrell Davis......I never thought he was anything special.......but the line he played behind made him great. My best example of the latter is Barry Sanders......just a great running back that could make people miss even behind the worst of offensive lines.

There are a lot more Terrell Davis's than there are Barry Sanders is my point.

Larry Johnson is a Terrell Davis type guy. The Chiefs have had a good/great offensive line for a lot of years now.....but it is on decline. I really think that LJ will start to decline with it, because I dont think he is the freakish type athlete that a Sanders or LaDainian is....obviously.

That is the ONE thing that I have always thought that the Broncos do correctly.....and that is take marginally talented running backs.....and make them look like stars and then trade them away for GREAT pieces.......In fact, they built their defense by trading away Droughns and Portis.....only to put in Tatum and Mike Bell who do a fine job.

If the opportunity presents itself to trade LJ for a chance to rebuild our offensive line, I think that it is a smart thing to do.

Just my opinion.

Direckshun
02-15-2007, 08:11 AM
Yeah, I've already said my piece in this thread, but LJ gets a bad rap.

He's not a model citizen, but he's more complex than a TO or Randy Moss. But LJ is also intelligent and well spoken. Fatlock makes a big stink out of LJ criticizing the Chiefs' coaching to the press -- ignoring completely that LJ was absolutely correct.

LJ is committed to winning, and his attitude may rub people the wrong way, but he doesn't divide the locker room and he wants the team to win. LJ's never blown up on camera, and he's the physical embodiment of the running back a Herm Edwards offense wants. We trade him, and we make our team worse. That simple.

LJ has done numerous appearances for nonprofit organizations, but that doesn't fit the profile of who the press thinks LJ is so it goes unreported.

I don't think LJ deserves a halo, but horns are equally inappropriate. The Chiefs will keep him, because he puts butts in the seats, because he helps the Chiefs win, because he's popular amongst fans, because he's the perfect back for a system that's still working out its kinks.

wutamess
02-15-2007, 08:11 AM
I have always believed that a running back is only as good as the line in front of him. Larry is a nice running back, dont get me wrong.

Let me see if I can word this correctly......

There have been A LOT more "marginally" talented running backs that have looked like superstars playing behind a GREAT offensive line than there have been GREAT running backs that have looked great behind a WEAK offensive line.

I think my best example of the former is Terrell Davis......I never thought he was anything special.......but the line he played behind made him great. My best example of the latter is Barry Sanders......just a great running back that could make people miss even behind the worst of offensive lines.

There are a lot more Terrell Davis's than there are Barry Sanders is my point.

Larry Johnson is a Terrell Davis type guy. The Chiefs have had a good/great offensive line for a lot of years now.....but it is on decline. I really think that LJ will start to decline with it, because I dont think he is the freakish type athlete that a Sanders or LaDainian is....obviously.

That is the ONE thing that I have always thought that the Broncos do correctly.....and that is take marginally talented running backs.....and make them look like stars and then trade them away for GREAT pieces.......In fact, they built their defense by trading away Droughns and Portis.....only to put in Tatum and Mike Bell who do a fine job.

If the opportunity presents itself to trade LJ for a chance to rebuild our offensive line, I think that it is a smart thing to do.

Just my opinion.


WRONG!
Either Bell is unreliable.

Mike wasn't getting the job done @ all in Tatum's toe absence (I know he was my backup RB in FFL).
Tatum wasn't getting the job done either for a while there.
It was RBBC this year and the Rat hated it (Even throwing Damien Nash off the inactive list into the mix).

TrickyNicky
02-15-2007, 08:14 AM
Or to NY for Brandon Jacobs, either David Tyree or Tim Carter and a draft pick.
I'm sure that'll make LJ happy.

Jacobs and Bennett would make a great combo for us. As long as Bennett stops getting injured while racing linemen. I'd go for that in a heartbeat. Shame it will never happen.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 08:24 AM
This seems contradictory. If you can find and develop young running backs quickly, why would a team surrender a top-12 pick and a starting player to acquire a RB coming off a historic workload?

I guess you can always hope there's another Minnesota (Herschel Walker) or Washington (Clinton Portis) willing to go that route, but ...

Yep. How often does a team get a first rounder for a non-QB? And that doesn't take into account LJ's baggage. So a team is supposed to give up a ton of talent in addition to giving LJ a huge contract? Not going to happen.

What is everyone's expectation of what we should get for LJ? I'd trade him in a second if we could get a 1st-rounder...He truly is a liability in the passing game.

Easy 6
02-15-2007, 08:24 AM
Man, i dont know where to fall on this, i've been one of Larrys biggest cheerleaders. I think its inappropriate to compare him to TO, but rumors of grumblings from other players & the cell phone thing do not sit well.

My leaning is to keep him, i just love his running style & despite a few dumb comments i think his heart is pretty much in the right place. What needs to happen is for Carl to sit him down & read him his rights, "ya know i love ya Lare, your one of my finest picks...but if this keeps up i will move Heaven & Earth to ship ya to Houston".

Thats my take & if i could give Jason rep for "Bay Bay McWorkout"... LMAO , i would.

Bowser
02-15-2007, 08:28 AM
Carl has taken so much heat in this city for his flop draft picks that there is no way he is going to let one go that he hit on, no matter how good of a move it could potentially be for the team. Gonzalez will retire a Chief, as will Shields, and mostly likely LJ.

That being said, if he is the moody, disgruntled presence in the locker room that he is made out to be, I'd trade his ass to Green Bay, and see how he likes playing in a city of THAT magnitude.

HonestChieffan
02-15-2007, 08:28 AM
Give him a ticket out of town

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 08:31 AM
ROFL

Whitlock definitely got what he wanted with this one.

RedNeckRaider
02-15-2007, 08:33 AM
That being said, if he is the moody, disgruntled presence in the locker room that he is made out to be, I'd trade his ass to Green Bay, and see how he likes playing in a city of THAT magnitude.
Thinking back Reggie White became a free agent from the Eagles and said he wanted to do Gods will by by going to a city where he could work with inner city kids...he went to Green Bay. Maybe LJ would fit in the rough and tumble inner city hoods of Green Bay.

Bowser
02-15-2007, 08:34 AM
ROFL

Whitlock definitely got what he wanted with this one.

Improved food and beverage service in the press suite?

Bowser
02-15-2007, 08:36 AM
Thinking back Reggie White became a free agent from the Eagles and said he wanted to do Gods will by by going to a city where he could work with inner city kids...he went to Green Bay. Maybe LJ would fit in the rough and tumble inner city hoods of Green Bay.

LMAO

I think the inner city youth of Green Bay actually say "Holler back, you all."

RedNeckRaider
02-15-2007, 08:40 AM
LMAO

I think the inner city youth of Green Bay actually say "Holler back, you all."
Taking a shot at the dead is a no no, but it was funny White was all about getting 16 million and working with inner city kids. Ron Wolf calls and says Reggie we don't have hoods but we do have 17 million :)

boogblaster
02-15-2007, 08:41 AM
What a bunch of dumb-f*cks, you don't trade off one of your only two or three work-horses you have on offence...get a grip people...

Mr. Laz
02-15-2007, 08:42 AM
"a top ten pick and a starting defender for LJ ........ "

sign me up for that trade


ideally we would put off LJ's new contract for 1 more year and then trade him.


i pretty much agree with most of what Whitlock said.

siberian khatru
02-15-2007, 08:46 AM
He truly is a liability in the passing game.

Thankfully, we won't be doing that foolishness anymore.

Chief Nute
02-15-2007, 08:47 AM
WRONG!
Either Bell is unreliable.

Mike wasn't getting the job done @ all in Tatum's toe absence (I know he was my backup RB in FFL).
Tatum wasn't getting the job done either for a while there.
It was RBBC this year and the Rat hated it (Even throwing Damien Nash off the inactive list into the mix).

Man....you guys always want to argue......

I think the Bells did just fine this year.......between them, they ran for 1702 yards. I'd say that is pretty decent. Not the best year the Broncos have had in say the last 10 years, but definately good considering that on most teams.....Mike and Tatum Bell would be backups. We arent talking Fantasy Football here........Just because you had one of them and they didnt get ALL the carries, thus, you were pissed all year doesnt mean they are unreliable. It means that you cant count on them for fantasy points......hardly the real world.

My point is that when you have guys like Mike Anderson run for 1014 yards in 2005, Droughns runs for 1240 in '04, Ron Dayne runs for a 5.1 average in 2005, Olandis Gary has a 1000 yard season, Portis runs like a mad-man in 2002 and 2003, etc, etc, etc. These are ALL marginal (at best) running backs, with the exception of Portis, who was better as a Bronco. And the proof is that they are all junk once they left Denver.

Bowser
02-15-2007, 08:47 AM
What a bunch of dumb-f*cks, you don't trade off one of your only two or three work-horses you have on offence...get a grip people...

Because God forbid we go back to an offense that opens things up for our running back, insted of throwing him at a wall time after time.

JakeT
02-15-2007, 08:48 AM
WRONG!
Either Bell is unreliable.

Mike wasn't getting the job done @ all in Tatum's toe absence (I know he was my backup RB in FFL).
Tatum wasn't getting the job done either for a while there.
It was RBBC this year and the Rat hated it (Even throwing Damien Nash off the inactive list into the mix).

I think Chief Nute hit it on the head. The line is the key in most cases -- how awesome has Derrick Blaylock been in New York.

Wutamess - the Bells weren't that good last year but remember Denver lost 1 key starter on its oline and they were banged up all year -- they are also aging -- Denver's model has worked brilliantly for years --

If we could get the right package for LJ and rebuild our line (O and D) I'd be all over it. If our oline doesn't get a major facelift & Shield probably done LJ is only going to get worse.

Frazod
02-15-2007, 08:50 AM
I thought we should have traded by Gonzalez and Johnson. Our offensive line SUCKS BALLS. It doesn't matter who runs behind them. We need to basically rebuild the offense from scratch, and LJ is pretty much the only player left that we can get any value for. And yes, he's great and all, but he's also a complete punk.

God it would be great if we could find some dipshit to spread eagle for us in a Herschel Walker-type trade. Is there anybody out there that stupid? How about Matt Millen?

Mr. Laz
02-15-2007, 08:50 AM
Thankfully, we won't be doing that foolishness anymore.
ROFL






:banghead:

Fat Elvis
02-15-2007, 09:16 AM
God it would be great if we could find some dipshit to spread eagle for us in a Herschel Walker-type trade. Is there anybody out there that stupid? How about Matt Millen?

Matt Millen is drooling over Sammie Parker.....

B_Ambuehl
02-15-2007, 09:25 AM
I have always believed that a running back is only as good as the line in front of him.

Finaly after what Edgerrin James did in AZ people are starting to get this.

This line ain't getting any better and LJ no longer runs half as hard anyway. Throughout preseason and the first few games of 2005 he ran like a man possessed...no more.

wutamess
02-15-2007, 09:33 AM
Man....you guys always want to argue......

I think the Bells did just fine this year.......between them, they ran for 1702 yards. I'd say that is pretty decent. Not the best year the Broncos have had in say the last 10 years, but definately good considering that on most teams.....Mike and Tatum Bell would be backups. We arent talking Fantasy Football here........Just because you had one of them and they didnt get ALL the carries, thus, you were pissed all year doesnt mean they are unreliable. It means that you cant count on them for fantasy points......hardly the real world.

My point is that when you have guys like Mike Anderson run for 1014 yards in 2005, Droughns runs for 1240 in '04, Ron Dayne runs for a 5.1 average in 2005, Olandis Gary has a 1000 yard season, Portis runs like a mad-man in 2002 and 2003, etc, etc, etc. These are ALL marginal (at best) running backs, with the exception of Portis, who was better as a Bronco. And the proof is that they are all junk once they left Denver.


WRONG AGAIN!
Portis is/was successful with Washington.
If both Bells were so good, then why throw Damien Nash into the mix from the practice squad? Someone wasn't getting something done.

Fantasy Football is about pts & yards. No matter how many ways you put it... FFL pts = production on the field. So they do go hand in hand.

Another anology... LJ was drafted #1 in FFL because of his production not because of his intangibles (his blocking sucks).

Flustrated
02-15-2007, 09:35 AM
Herchel Walker anyone?!?
not like the Chief's front office would know what to do with the draft picks, but that would be a great senario.

HemiEd
02-15-2007, 09:36 AM
Is there anybody out there that stupid? How about Matt Millen?

Nope, LJ is not a WR.

el borracho
02-15-2007, 09:37 AM
I can't say that it's a bad idea... if there is one thing that is easier to find in the draft, it's a RB these days.
Well, if it is so easy to find a stud RB why would anyone offer us a top 12 pick and a player for one?

Brock
02-15-2007, 09:39 AM
Well, if it is so easy to find a stud RB why would anyone offer us a top 12 pick and a player for one?

They wouldn't.

Chief Nute
02-15-2007, 09:41 AM
WRONG AGAIN!
Portis is/was successful with Washington.
If both Bells were so good, then why throw Damien Nash into the mix from the practice squad? Someone wasn't getting something done.

Fantasy Football is about pts & yards. No matter how many ways you put it... FFL pts = production on the field. So they do go hand in hand.

Another anology... LJ was drafted #1 in FFL because of his production not because of his intangibles (his blocking sucks).


OK....not going to argue. Agree to disagree. That is my whole point.....I am not saying the Bells are good....Im saying the system is. The Bells ran for over 1700 yards, and they arent that talented. Just like the rest of the bums that have ran for over 1000 yards in the Broncos system the last 10 years.

And on Portis......he is far from the player he was in Denver. His per rush averages in Denver were 5.5 both years. His per rush averages in Washington have been 3.8, 4.3 and 4.1. Call me crazy......but he may not be a good as he looked in a Denver uniform.

Not to mention......Ladell Betts gives the Redskins more production (arguably) than Portis......and I think the Redskins would be smart to trade Portis while he still has some value.

See.......SMART. Would you rather have Portis or Champ Bailey? Seems like an easy question......the Broncos OWNED the Redskins on that deal.

All this praising the Broncos has me feeling dirty.....Im gonna go shower.

Mr. Laz
02-15-2007, 09:42 AM
Well, if it is so easy to find a stud RB why would anyone offer us a top 12 pick and a player for one?

for the same reason that Washington traded Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis.

RB is a glory position ..... a good one can make a HUGE difference to an offense.

but our offense isn't just a good RB away from being good ... someone else's might be.

Mr. Laz
02-15-2007, 09:43 AM
They wouldn't.
i think they would

crazycoffey
02-15-2007, 09:44 AM
I said this awhile back....his value will never be higher and odds are he's going to decline very fast. We give him some huge new 7 year deal we likely end up with a highly paid unproductive player for alot of that contract.


I did too, and made (unreasonable) comparisions to Dallas's trade of Walker. But going for that idea.

He's hot, we need a lot of help, it could work. BUT can bennett stay healthy, is priest coming back, who else do we get to run the ball?

Brock
02-15-2007, 09:46 AM
i think they would

Which teams do you think would?

NewChief
02-15-2007, 09:47 AM
BUT can bennett stay healthy, is priest coming back, who else do we get to run the ball?

The Bennett question is a big one. I'm not sure that he's the guy to come in and carry the load for us. I believe that he's got the capability, but I don't know if he's really that into it. I understand that he's really, really into fishing and is trying to go professional as a bass angler. In other words, he's not really looking to be a premier back in the league. Maybe things would change if he were in the situation where the #1 position was his for the taking.

Woodrow Call
02-15-2007, 09:47 AM
i think they would

IIRC Edge and Alexander were both on the trade market a couple years back and no one was willing to give up a 1st rd pick. What makes LJ any different?

wutamess
02-15-2007, 09:56 AM
OK....not going to argue. Agree to disagree. That is my whole point.....I am not saying the Bells are good....Im saying the system is. The Bells ran for over 1700 yards, and they arent that talented. Just like the rest of the bums that have ran for over 1000 yards in the Broncos system the last 10 years.

And on Portis......he is far from the player he was in Denver. His per rush averages in Denver were 5.5 both years. His per rush averages in Washington have been 3.8, 4.3 and 4.1. Call me crazy......but he may not be a good as he looked in a Denver uniform.

Not to mention......Ladell Betts gives the Redskins more production (arguably) than Portis......and I think the Redskins would be smart to trade Portis while he still has some value.

See.......SMART. Would you rather have Portis or Champ Bailey? Seems like an easy question......the Broncos OWNED the Redskins on that deal.

All this praising the Broncos has me feeling dirty.....Im gonna go shower.

I agree with & see your points.
Just slightly disagree with some of those arguements.

All in all, we're in the same boat.

Mr. Laz
02-15-2007, 10:00 AM
IIRC Edge and Alexander were both on the trade market a couple years back and no one was willing to give up a 1st rd pick. What makes LJ any different?
age ...... still has several years left on his contract


age makes him worth more

still having 3/4 years left on his contract gives the team more leverage about any new deal that is signed.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 10:03 AM
IIRC Edge and Alexander were both on the trade market a couple years back and no one was willing to give up a 1st rd pick. What makes LJ any different?

Bingo.

Chief Nute
02-15-2007, 10:06 AM
IIRC Edge and Alexander were both on the trade market a couple years back and no one was willing to give up a 1st rd pick. What makes LJ any different?


Exactly......because any GM worth his keep knows that a RB is only good as the line he runs behind......which is why Edge sucks now.

We may find some moron of a GM that will overpay for LJ......but a shrewd GM will tell us to take a hike

Pushead2
02-15-2007, 10:08 AM
I agree as well

Kclee
02-15-2007, 10:13 AM
IIRC Edge and Alexander were both on the trade market a couple years back and no one was willing to give up a 1st rd pick. What makes LJ any different?


Higher salary cap with new CBA? Wasn't the reason because no one could afford them at the time.

Frankie
02-15-2007, 10:38 AM
Whitlock has never been more on the money.

Chiefnj
02-15-2007, 10:42 AM
Trading him really doesn't make much sense for many reasons.

1. He is under his rookie contract and is currently underpaid.
2. He stated a few weeks ago he was still happy with his contract.
3. KC doesn't have any depth at the position which means they will have to spend more money on a FA or use a draft pick.
4. Draft picks are risky.
5. It may take several years for a draft pick to come up to speed.
6. You'd have to get multiple picks for LJ to make it worth while. Why trade an established player (presently injury-free) for a single draft pick that would likely be used to draft his replacement that is an unknown commidity?
7. LJ is THE centerpiece of the offense.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 10:43 AM
Trading him really doesn't make much sense for many reasons.

1. He is under his rookie contract and is currently underpaid.
2. He stated a few weeks ago he was still happy with his contract.
3. KC doesn't have any depth at the position which means they will have to spend more money on a FA or use a draft pick.
4. Draft picks are risky.
5. It may take several years for a draft pick to come up to speed.
6. You'd have to get multiple picks for LJ to make it worth while. Why trade an established player (presently injury-free) for a single draft pick that would likely be used to draft his replacement that is an unknown commidity?
7. LJ is THE centerpiece of the offense.

Because he hates KC and he's a thug, that's why!

NewChief
02-15-2007, 10:43 AM
2. He stated a few weeks ago he was still happy with his contract.


Heh. Interested in some ocean front property in Arizona?

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 10:45 AM
Heh. Interested in some ocean front property in Arizona?

Yeah, we know, you have inside sources and they say that Larry lied to the press. We heard that already.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Yeah, we know, you have inside sources and they say that Larry lied to the press. We heard that already.

Do you honestly believe that Larry will go into next year with the same contract he currently has?

Chiefnj
02-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Because he hates KC and he's a thug, that's why!

Do you have proof that he hates KC? Proof he's a thug? Do you want get rid of every "thug"?

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 10:47 AM
Do you honestly believe that Larry will go into next year with the same contract he currently has?

The Chiefs have already expressed interest in giving him a new deal. That doesn't mean that Larry isn't happy with his contract, nor does that make him a liar.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 10:47 AM
Do you have proof that he hates KC? Proof he's a thug? Do you want get rid of every "thug"?

He's being facetious.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 10:47 AM
Do you have proof that he hates KC? Proof he's a thug? Do you want get rid of every "thug"?

I was being sarcastic. Read the rest of the thread.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 10:48 AM
The Chiefs have already expressed interest in giving him a new deal. That doesn't mean that Larry isn't happy with his contract, nor does that make him a liar.

If he's happy with his contract, then why give him a new deal? Out of the goodness of Carl's heart?

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 10:49 AM
If he's happy with his contract, then why give him a new deal? Out of the goodness of Carl's heart?

Carl's done it before.

Wile_E_Coyote
02-15-2007, 10:52 AM
I doubt James Hasty was much fun in the locker room

Chiefnj
02-15-2007, 10:54 AM
He's being facetious.

Zip. [The sound of sarcasm going over my head].

digi2fish
02-15-2007, 11:06 AM
maybe this would wake Herm up and make him pay more time on O planning...

Pitt Gorilla
02-15-2007, 11:17 AM
I love LJ's game.

The Colts lost James and seemed to be ok. We don't have their weapons, but I'm not convinced a team needs a "franchise" type back to win.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 11:18 AM
Trading him really doesn't make much sense for many reasons.

1. He is under his rookie contract and is currently underpaid.
2. He stated a few weeks ago he was still happy with his contract.


If those two points are true, that's what would give LJ trade value in the first place. Who wants to trade for an overpaid player?

Count Zarth
02-15-2007, 11:19 AM
Honestly, if we traded Larry Johnson I'd go root for his new team. I'd sell all my Chiefs gear.

Chiefnj
02-15-2007, 11:21 AM
If those two points are true, that's what would give LJ trade value in the first place. Who wants to trade for an overpaid player?

It doesn't change the fact that it they are also reasons why KC would keep him.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 11:23 AM
It doesn't change the fact that it they are also reasons why KC would keep him.

Not only that but they're weighted in LJ's favor.

It may very well be true that Larry isn't being honest when he says he doesn't want a new contract immediately. You can bet your ass if they trade him, all that goes out the window. He'll demand a new contract before it even goes down.

bringbackmarty
02-15-2007, 11:35 AM
Honestly, if we traded Larry Johnson I'd go root for his new team. I'd sell all my Chiefs gear.

Figures you would do that......

for what, a good but not great running back, who often shows signs of immaturity, who cannot pass block, whiffs blocks, and fumbles in crucial games and at critical times, and loses his playbook. Not to mention he is obviously mentally and emotionally confused, has issues with women, and he basically assaulted that guy with the dreads on the field early last season.

Then there is my least favorite thing about him, he hates Dick Vermiel.
Say what you want about Vermiel, but he is a great coach, and a good person. Maybe Dick Vermiels brand of football is not Chiefs football, but it sure is fun to watch, and the NFL is better for it.

L.J. needs to improve a lot as a player and a person before he starts criticizing a surefire HOF coach. Not to mention the bullshit race card he seems to be playing now.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 11:36 AM
Figures you would do that......

for what, a good but not great running back, who often shows signs of immaturity, who cannot pass block, whiffs blocks, and fumbles in crucial games and at critical times, and loses his playbook. Not to mention he is obviously mentally and emotionally confused, has issues with women, and he basically assaulted that guy with the dreads on the field early last season.

Then there is my least favorite thing about him, he hates Dick Vermiel.
Say what you want about Vermiel, but he is a great coach, and a good person. Maybe Dick Vermiels brand of football is not Chiefs football, but it sure is fun to watch, and the NFL is better for it.

L.J. needs to improve a lot as a player and a person before he starts criticizing a surefire HOF coach. Not to mention the bullshit race card he seems to be playing now.

:deevee:

Frankie
02-15-2007, 11:40 AM
Honestly, if we traded Larry Johnson I'd go root for his new team. I'd sell all my Chiefs gear.
Once again GoChiefs talks with absolute certainty. This is worth trading LJ just to see GC go back on these words.
:p

bogie
02-15-2007, 11:46 AM
Wouldn't not having Larry force us to go down field more? I hope we have QB that can make that happen.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 11:48 AM
Wouldn't not having Larry force us to go down field more? I hope we have QB that can make that happen.

That's 100% Herm.

Without Larry, we'll just go back to the way it was from 1998-2000.

Count Zarth
02-15-2007, 11:51 AM
Figures you would do that......

for what, a good but not great running back, who often shows signs of immaturity, who cannot pass block, whiffs blocks, and fumbles in crucial games and at critical times, and loses his playbook. Not to mention he is obviously mentally and emotionally confused, has issues with women, and he basically assaulted that guy with the dreads on the field early last season.

Then there is my least favorite thing about him, he hates Dick Vermiel.
Say what you want about Vermiel, but he is a great coach, and a good person. Maybe Dick Vermiels brand of football is not Chiefs football, but it sure is fun to watch, and the NFL is better for it.

L.J. needs to improve a lot as a player and a person before he starts criticizing a surefire HOF coach. Not to mention the bullshit race card he seems to be playing now.

You seriously need to shove your keyboard up your ass. It would do everyone a whole lot better there.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 11:56 AM
It doesn't change the fact that it they are also reasons why KC would keep him.

They are what creates value, whether it be for KC or another team. I predict he won't be traded because either KC or his new team is going to have to pony up big bucks. The acquiring team will also lose draft picks.

It's not going to happen, but I'd be fine with it if it did.

Carl is going to do what Carl always does: Take a very public tough-guy negotiating stance, but by the time it's over, LJ will be pulling his dick out of Carl's ass.

Woodrow Call
02-15-2007, 11:58 AM
Figures you would do that......

for what, a good but not great running back, who often shows signs of immaturity, who cannot pass block, whiffs blocks, and fumbles in crucial games and at critical times, and loses his playbook. Not to mention he is obviously mentally and emotionally confused, has issues with women, and he basically assaulted that guy with the dreads on the field early last season.

Then there is my least favorite thing about him, he hates Dick Vermiel.
Say what you want about Vermiel, but he is a great coach, and a good person. Maybe Dick Vermiels brand of football is not Chiefs football, but it sure is fun to watch, and the NFL is better for it.

L.J. needs to improve a lot as a player and a person before he starts criticizing a surefire HOF coach. Not to mention the bullshit race card he seems to be playing now.

1. LJ is a great back
2. Assualting Dread Boy, it was a tackle give me a break
3. Screw DV he did nothing in KC but fail.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 11:59 AM
They are what creates value, whether it be for KC or another team. I predict he won't be traded because either KC or his new team is going to have to pony up big bucks. The acquiring team will also lose draft picks.

It's not going to happen, but I'd be fine with it if it did.

Carl is going to do what Carl always does: Take a very public tough-guy negotiating stance, but by the time it's over, LJ will be pulling his dick out of Carl's ass.

Name a time a player got the best of Carl...the only time we've ever payed a player so much that it screwed up the rest of the team was when we signed Derrick Thomas and were forced to let Neil Smith leave.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:02 PM
They are what creates value, whether it be for KC or another team. I predict he won't be traded because either KC or his new team is going to have to pony up big bucks. The acquiring team will also lose draft picks.

It may very well be true that Larry isn't being honest when he says he doesn't want a new contract immediately. You can bet your ass if they trade him, all that goes out the window. He'll demand a new contract before it even goes down.

He already counts against our cap. A new contract would replace the old contract and the old cap hit. If his current contract costs $800K against the cap and his new contract costs $3.2M against the cap, we're actually only using up an additional $2.4M worth of cap space, as opposed to a new team using up the full $3.2M.

In addition, we're not giving up draft picks to sign him.

So you basically agree with me after all of this?

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:03 PM
Name a time a player got the best of Carl...the only time we've ever payed a player so much that it screwed up the rest of the team was when we signed Derrick Thomas and were forced to let Neil Smith leave.

You're kidding, right? How about Tony G last month? Carl offered Grbac about 3x what Baltimore did, but Grbac was too stupid to take it.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:06 PM
So you basically agree with me after all of this?

The less sunk salary part for us is wrong, but yeah, he won't be traded because he's too close too a new contract. Not only would a team have to give up draft picks, but they'd have to pay market salary on a new contract. That is why there a so few trades in the NFL.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:08 PM
You're kidding, right? How about Tony G last month? Carl offered Grbac about 3x what Baltimore did, but Grbac was too stupid to take it.

Did either of those contracts produce a situation that's detrimental to the team?

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:10 PM
The less sunk salary part for us is wrong, but yeah, he won't be traded because he's too close too a new contract. Not only would a team have to give up draft picks, but they'd have to pay market salary on a new contract. That is why there a so few trades in the NFL.

It's most certainly not wrong, unless the team that's trading for him releases a player or includes a player in the deal specifically to make room for his salary.

We're already accounting for Larry's salary and any new deal he gets is not compounded.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:13 PM
Did either of those contracts produce a situation that's detrimental to the team?

Every dollar spent on player X is less dollars to acquire player Y. I think we overpaid for Gonzalez, I think Carl offered Grbac a ludicrous contract, and I think Carl will overpay for LJ.

Well-run, Super Bowl-winning franchises like NE typically don't overpay for players. Mediocre franchises like the Chiefs do.

Chiefnj
02-15-2007, 12:13 PM
Name a time a player got the best of Carl....

Dan Williams.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:16 PM
Every dollar spent on player X is less dollars to acquire player Y. I think we overpaid for Gonzalez, I think Carl offered Grbac a ludicrous contract, and I think Carl will overpay for LJ.

Well-run, Super Bowl-winning franchises like NE typically don't overpay for players. Mediocre franchises like the Chiefs do.

Define "overpay".

You're trying to assing an objective definition to something that is HIGHLY subjective.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:17 PM
Dan Williams.

Certainly a bad situation.

But how many players did we NOT sign due to signing Dan Williams?

crazycoffey
02-15-2007, 12:18 PM
Larry Johnson is far from the most popular player in the Chiefs' locker room with the players. He's aloof, moody and constantly distracted by his desire to be misunderstood and to be a member of Jay-Z's posse. Johnson, according to another teammate, can be a disruptive force in locker-room chemistry. The team's most valuable and important player, according to a teammate, oftentimes sits in meetings text messaging friends and associates.
-- Kansas City Star

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:19 PM
Larry Johnson is far from the most popular player in the Chiefs' locker room with the players. He's aloof, moody and constantly distracted by his desire to be misunderstood and to be a member of Jay-Z's posse. Johnson, according to another teammate, can be a disruptive force in locker-room chemistry. The team's most valuable and important player, according to a teammate, oftentimes sits in meetings text messaging friends and associates.
-- Kansas City Star

Which proves what?

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:21 PM
It's most certainly not wrong, unless the team that's trading for him releases a player or includes a player in the deal specifically to make room for his salary.

We're already accounting for Larry's salary and any new deal he gets is not compounded.

Every team has the same number of players. When it comes time for LJ to re-up, either we can pay him or cut him. If we cut him, we are off the hook for everything. If we pay him, we are on the hook. Suppose his new salary counts 5 million per year against the cap and his old salary was 1 million per year. The cost of signing him is $5 million per year, not $4 million -- because if we cut him, we'd pay nothing! His old contract is off the books.

Now regarding capology, I don't know the implications of trading LJ right now under contract, but that is not relevant for his new contract.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:22 PM
Every team has the same number of players. When it comes time for LJ to re-up, either we can pay him or cut him. If we cut him, we are off the hook for everything. If we pay him, we are on the hook. Suppose his new salary counts 5 million per year against the cap and his old salary was 1 million per year. The cost of signing him is $5 million per year, not $4 million -- because if we cut him, we'd pay nothing! His old contract is off the books.

Now regarding capology, I don't know the implications of trading LJ right now under contract, but that is not relevant for his new contract.

Incorrect. Only his BASE salary doesn't count against the cap if we cut him. The remaining portion of his pro-rated signing bonus IMMEDIATELY counts against the cap unless he's cut after June 1st.

crazycoffey
02-15-2007, 12:25 PM
Which proves what?


I wasn't trying to prove anything, sir. I came across that from the rumors article on CNNSI and thought this was a good place to post that information.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:29 PM
Define "overpay".

You're trying to assing an objective definition to something that is HIGHLY subjective.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

Not really. Teams like Philly and NE typically don't sign older star players because

1) players decline with age
2) and more importantly, older players are free-agents and you only can sign a free-agent if you offer the most money, in which case there is likely to be a "winner's curse". Why was no one else willing to bid as much as you? Probably because your valuation is wrong.

No team offered Grbac as much as we did. Turns out they were smart and Carl was wrong. No team presumably was willing to offer Tony G more than Carl. Does Carl know more than other GMs? I don't think so. Carl overpays for "his" players and LJ is one of "his" as is Gonzo and as was Grbac.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:29 PM
I wasn't trying to prove anything, sir. I came across that from the rumors article on CNNSI and thought this was a good place to post that information.

Why would you post a 3rd-hand rumor from the Star if you didn't have anything to say?

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:32 PM
Not really. Teams like Philly and NE typically don't sign older star players because

1) players decline with age
2) and more importantly, older players are free-agents and you only can sign a free-agent if you offer the most money, in which case there is likely to be a "winner's curse". Why was no one else willing to bid as much as you? Probably because your valuation is wrong.

What does this have to do with anything? LJ is hardly an "older" player. In fact, he's in his prime.

No team offered Grbac as much as we did. Turns out they were smart and Carl was wrong. No team presumably was willing to offer Tony G more than Carl. Does Carl know more than other GMs? I don't think so. Carl overpays for "his" players and LJ is one of "his" as is Gonzo and as was Grbac.

Carl didn't overpay for anybody unless

1) there was a set market with other bidders and
2) he paid so much for the player that it precluded signing other players

If neither of those things happened, he paid market value because he SET market value.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:32 PM
Incorrect. Only his BASE salary doesn't count against the cap if we cut him. The remaining portion of his pro-rated signing bonus IMMEDIATELY counts against the cap unless he's cut after June 1st.

I want to keep this simple. At some point his contract expires. Either we can renew it or not. You want to obfuscate this with capology crap that makes determining the true marginal cost almost impossible.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:33 PM
I want to keep this simple. At some point his contract expires. Either we can renew it or not. You want to obfuscate this with capology crap that makes determining the true marginal cost almost impossible.

I'm not obfuscating anything.

We're not talking about RENEWING his contract when it EXPIRES, and you know it.

We're talking about TEARING UP his existing contract and giving him a big, fat RAISE.

Easy 6
02-15-2007, 12:37 PM
As far as the hangin' with JZ thing, i could think of a LOT worse rappers he could be trying to emulate, JZ isnt a "Gansta".

But that doesnt excuse Larry from daydreaming in team meetings.

Theres plenty of time for "Livin' Large" in the off-season.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 12:37 PM
What does this have to do with anything? LJ is hardly an "older" player. In fact, he's in his prime.



Carl didn't overpay for anybody unless

1) there was a set market with other bidders and
2) he paid so much for the player that it precluded signing other players

If neither of those things happened, he paid market value because he SET market value.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Carl overpays for veteran, home-grown talent. Good franchises let talent walk rather than overpay (or as you call, set the market.) Pittsburgh, Philly, NE...always are letting talent walk. Carl doesn't have the balls to take the heat from the Jack Harrys even though he probably knows he is overpaying.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:37 PM
As far as the hangin' with JZ thing, i could think of a LOT worse rappers he could be trying to emulate, JZ isnt a "Gansta".

But that doesnt excuse Larry from daydreaming in team meetings.

Theres plenty of time for "Livin' Large" in the off-season.

Was he daydreaming in team meetings? Do we know that for certain?

booger
02-15-2007, 12:38 PM
Speaking of rumors, whats up with the rumor that LJ attacked Herm and the Chiefs Squashed it?

It was on WPI's subscriber BB twards the end of the regular season. Anyone have any 'free' info on this?

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:39 PM
It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Carl overpays for veteran, home-grown talent. Good franchises let talent walk rather than overpay (or as you call, set the market.) Pittsburgh, Philly, NE...always are letting talent walk. Carl doesn't have the balls to take the heat from the Jack Harrys even though he probably knows he is overpaying.

Again, you're applying an objective standard to your subjective opinion.

Without something to compare it to, you cannot say he overpaid.

Simply Red
02-15-2007, 12:40 PM
what is that thing he does in the endzone with his hands again?

booger
02-15-2007, 12:42 PM
what is that thing he does in the endzone with his hands again?
something about the shape of the hole in the ozone layer and how it is all Bush's fault.

ChiTown
02-15-2007, 12:43 PM
what is that thing he does in the endzone with his hands again?

It's the shape of his girlfriends vagina - some sort of tribute, or some such thing............

Simply Red
02-15-2007, 12:43 PM
something about the shape of the hole in the ozone layer and how it is all Bush's fault.

weird

Easy 6
02-15-2007, 12:44 PM
Was he daydreaming in team meetings? Do we know that for certain?

If the article is correct, yes.

If you've read my posts on this thread, i have mostly stood by LJ, but sitting around text messaging when he's supposed to be paying attention to football has gotta go.

Theres a time & place for everything.

FAX
02-15-2007, 12:44 PM
I think it's the international sign for "I Visited Mr. Redrum_69's Mom's Cooter".

It also looks a little like an Arabian bagel.

FAX

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:45 PM
If the article is correct, yes.

That's all I need to hear.

booger
02-15-2007, 12:47 PM
Speaking of rumors, whats up with the rumor that LJ attacked Herm and the Chiefs Squashed it?

It was on WPI's subscriber BB twards the end of the regular season. Anyone have any 'free' info on this?
GoChiefs, could you give us the lowdown on this?

Simply Red
02-15-2007, 12:47 PM
It's the shape of his girlfriends vagina - some sort of tribute, or some such thing............

that cheerleader sure has a nice turd-cutter. Not to um hijack or anything...

Chief Nute
02-15-2007, 12:50 PM
Which proves what?


Hey, cut the guy a break.......he has to say SOMETHING every 2.43 minutes to keep his current pace. So what, if he throws a clunker in there....... :)

Pitt Gorilla
02-15-2007, 12:55 PM
Name a time a player got the best of Carl...the only time we've ever payed a player so much that it screwed up the rest of the team was when we signed Derrick Thomas and were forced to let Neil Smith leave.Carlton Gray? Jerome Woods? Priest Holmes?

FAX
02-15-2007, 12:56 PM
So much depends
on the free agent market
and the draft
beside the white chickens.

I would consider trading LJ if another serviceable RB were available who could also pass block and catch out of the backfield. His trade value is high right now and we may or may not have the offensive line necessary to maximize his talent for running straight ahead. Also, I don't know if the rumors are true that he is a distraction in the lockerroom and in team meetings. But, if they are, I'd think seriously about getting value for him.

FAX

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 12:57 PM
Carlton Gray? Jerome Woods? Priest Holmes?

Did any of those guys cause us to violate the cap or otherwise prevent us from signing other players?

Simply Red
02-15-2007, 01:00 PM
Jerome Woods is awesome and very expensive. We all know that...

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 01:13 PM
Speaking of rumors, whats up with the rumor that LJ attacked Herm and the Chiefs Squashed it?

It was on WPI's subscriber BB twards the end of the regular season. Anyone have any 'free' info on this?

Wow. First I have ever heard about that. If true, I'd certainly have mixed feelings. Herm's play-calling certainly warranted something, but a physical assault by a player...seems a little much.

FAX
02-15-2007, 01:21 PM
Wow. First I have ever heard about that. If true, I'd certainly have mixed feelings. Herm's play-calling certainly warranted something, but a physical assault by a player...seems a little much.

I heard that, after the Baltimore game, LJ entered the head coach's office unannounced, pulled down Herm's sweatpants, and blew raspberries on his buttocks.

FAX

Simply Red
02-15-2007, 01:26 PM
I heard that, after the Baltimore game, LJ entered the head coach's office unannounced, pulled down Herm's sweatpants, and blew raspberries on his buttocks.

FAX


I never know when you're serious or kidding,

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 01:27 PM
I never know when you're serious or kidding,

He's dead-serious.

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 01:29 PM
I heard that, after the Baltimore game, LJ entered the head coach's office unannounced, pulled down Herm's sweatpants, and blew raspberries on his buttocks.

FAX

Why raspberries?

Simply Red
02-15-2007, 01:31 PM
:shrug:

Woodrow Call
02-15-2007, 01:32 PM
Speaking of rumors, whats up with the rumor that LJ attacked Herm and the Chiefs Squashed it?

It was on WPI's subscriber BB twards the end of the regular season. Anyone have any 'free' info on this?

It was started on a Jets board and was never proven to be true or untrue. Its origin makes me think it's BS.

booger
02-15-2007, 01:33 PM
Blueberrys i could understand. But Rasberries? Wow. Just wow!!

booger
02-15-2007, 01:34 PM
It was started on a Jets board and was never proven to be true or untrue. Its origin makes me think it's BS.
Ok.

Thanks.

FAX
02-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Why raspberries?

It's an ancient Bakongo custom, Mr. FringeNC. Blowing raspberries on the buttocks of a chief, shaman, or highly revered tribesman was considered to be a means whereby evil spirits were dispelled from adversely affecting a particular war effort or colon.

FAX

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 01:37 PM
Blueberrys i could understand. But Rasberries? Wow. Just wow!!

I thought after FAX commented about LJ pulling down Herm's sweats, I'd have guessed LJ was going to make the vagina hand sign, and determine whether Herm had one, based on Herm's play-calling.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 01:39 PM
It was started on a Jets board and was never proven to be true or untrue. Its origin makes me think it's BS.

Not that my "sources" get any credence (and not that I wouldn't love to dish some more smack LJ's way), but I haven't heard a word about that.

booger
02-15-2007, 01:41 PM
I thought after FAX commented about LJ pulling down Herm's sweats, I'd have guessed LJ was going to make the vagina hand sign, and determine whether Herm had one, based on Herm's play-calling.
Yep.

That LJ sure is a fiesty one.

booger
02-15-2007, 01:42 PM
I'd like to hear what Mick Nathon has to say about this.

Frankie
02-15-2007, 01:42 PM
I think it's the international sign for "I Visited Mr. Redrum_69's Mom's Cooter".

It also looks a little like an Arabian bagel.

FAX
ROFL

booger
02-15-2007, 01:43 PM
Not that my "sources" get any credence (and not that I wouldn't love to dish some more smack LJ's way), but I haven't heard a word about that.
Based on your sources, what do you think the chances of Weigmann retiring are?

Count Zarth
02-15-2007, 01:44 PM
I'd like to hear what Mick Nathon has to say about this.

Premium Article. :D

http://chiefs.scout.com/2/610365.html

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 01:45 PM
Not that my "sources" get any credence (and not that I wouldn't love to dish some more smack LJ's way), but I haven't heard a word about that.

You have sources, that's more than most people can say. That being said, you admitted in the same breath that you apparently have some kind of personal beef with LJ.

booger
02-15-2007, 01:45 PM
how about a free password?

NewChief
02-15-2007, 01:46 PM
Based on your sources, what do you think the chances of Weigmann retiring are?

I'd heard it was a surefire thing from one of his family members at the Jax game. However, since then, I've heard that he's not so sure. Wants to play 12 years for some reason. He wants more money, though. Currently 16th ranked center by pay and feels he should get more. There are also some other factors involved, but that's one of them. I sort of doubt Carl will deal, but we'll see.

FAX
02-15-2007, 01:46 PM
Athan says there are two kinds of people in the world. Those who have taken LSD and those who haven't.

FAX

Crashride
02-15-2007, 01:47 PM
Are we really talking about trading LJ off of some rumors...

NewChief
02-15-2007, 01:49 PM
That being said, you admitted in the same breath that you apparently have some kind of personal beef with LJ.

I actually have pulled for LJ all season until recently. Hell, I still think he's a great back. I'm just not sure about his overall effect on the team because I've just been hearing more and more bad things about him as of late.

FAX
02-15-2007, 01:49 PM
Athan says that Lagarijo (the famous bullfighter) killed 4,867 bulls in his illustrious career. But, only one cow.

FAX

booger
02-15-2007, 01:50 PM
I'd heard it was a surefire thing from one of his family members at the Jax game. However, since then, I've heard that he's not so sure. Wants to play 12 years for some reason. He wants more money, though. Currently 16th ranked center by pay and feels he should get more. There are also some other factors involved, but that's one of them. I sort of doubt Carl will deal, but we'll see.
I remember they are giving him a special award at the 101 KC Maxwell football club banquet. Sort of their way ( Carl and Herm ) of urging him to retire. IMO anyway.

Very similar to DV and Tim Grunhard. I think in '01 Grunhard was leaning twards retiring anyway but DV tried to nicely convince him to because he wouldn't fit the offense anyway.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 01:50 PM
I actually have pulled for LJ all season until recently. Hell, I still think he's a great back. I'm just not sure about his overall effect on the team because I've just been hearing more and more bad things about him as of late.

OK, I just wanted to see what the deal was.

booger
02-15-2007, 01:50 PM
oh and thanks!

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 01:51 PM
I'd heard it was a surefire thing from one of his family members at the Jax game. However, since then, I've heard that he's not so sure. Wants to play 12 years for some reason. He wants more money, though. Currently 16th ranked center by pay and feels he should get more. There are also some other factors involved, but that's one of them. I sort of doubt Carl will deal, but we'll see.

Another question your sources have perhaps addressed...

What's the feeling in the locker room about the new direction of the offense and Herm and Solari? Is this what Solari wants to do, or is it being forced on him by Herm?

The locker room almost seemed in open revolt (justifiably so) after the Indy debacle...

Any comments from your sources?

NewChief
02-15-2007, 01:52 PM
OK, I just wanted to see what the deal was.

And, of course, there are two sides to every story. Who knows what LJ's perspective is? My perspective is, admittedly, one-sided.

FAX
02-15-2007, 01:53 PM
Athan says that, in Israel, religious law forbids that you pick your nose on the Sabbath.

FAX

booger
02-15-2007, 01:58 PM
Wonder what Trent's opinion of the Shea firing and the hiring of Dick Curve are?

NewChief
02-15-2007, 01:59 PM
Wonder what Trent's opinion of the Shea firing and the hiring of Dick Curve are?

NewChief=STFU

booger
02-15-2007, 02:01 PM
lol

DJJasonp
02-15-2007, 02:25 PM
If offered a great trade....I'd do it in a heartbeat.

The odds are not in the chiefs organization's favor.

Throw in the fact that LJ has the maturity of a 17 yr old kid.....we're treading in dangerous waters.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 02:40 PM
Wonder what Trent's opinion of the Shea firing and the hiring of Dick Curve are?

I doubt Trent's opinion counts for much since he's probably already been told he's not in the plan for next year. :D

Luzap
02-15-2007, 02:42 PM
To me this is a non-issue.

I think every player should be considered for trade every year. All options should remain open.

Now, I know the real world doesn't work this way ~ Gonzo probably has a no trade clause, most players have no trade value, etc., but for players that do have potential trade value we'd have to test the waters.

If some team wants to give us the sun and the moon, let them. If we're never offered enough, keep him.

Luz
his character has nothing to do with the above philosophy...

L.A. Chieffan
02-15-2007, 02:42 PM
Nobody is gonna want LJ, unless they're completly desperate i.e. injuries at the last minute. So even thinking about trading him is counter-productive. What we need is obvious, OL help, WR help and a true #1 QB things that other teams aren't exactly giving away these days.
We can patch a few holes with the draft and FA and that's the best we can do.
I say go get David Carr, Kyle Boller and let see who the best man is after it's all said and done

booger
02-15-2007, 02:45 PM
I doubt Trent's opinion counts for much since he's probably already been told he's not in the plan for next year. :D
so does he get traded, released, or take a paycut?

And yes, I agree. Firing Shea = sorry trent, times about out.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 02:59 PM
I doubt Trent's opinion counts for much since he's probably already been told he's not in the plan for next year. :D

Nah, they keep Trent around another year. This year Shea was the scapegoat. Next year, it's Trent. Gotta keep someone around to take the fall.

htismaqe
02-15-2007, 03:00 PM
Nah, they keep Trent around another year. This year Shea was the scapegoat. Next year, it's Trent. Gotta keep someone around to take the fall.

I'm sure Solari is high on the scapegoat list...

FAX
02-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Athan says that 90% of Cleveland fans prefer sex with a goat and the remaining 10% just like to cuddle.

FAX

FringeNC
02-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Nah, they keep Trent around another year. This year Shea was the scapegoat. Next year, it's Trent. Gotta keep someone around to take the fall.

I don't see why Trent would want to stay around another year.

Chiefnj
02-15-2007, 03:34 PM
I don't see why Trent would want to stay around another year.

He probably has around 5-7 million reasons to stay around.

HonestChieffan
02-15-2007, 03:51 PM
Athan says that 90% of Cleveland fans prefer sex with a goat and the remaining 10% just like to cuddle.

FAX

Then...if they mate...do you get Bronco fans?

Halfcan
02-15-2007, 04:44 PM
LJ is moody but he is no TO or Moss-that is just stoopid.

TinyEvel
02-15-2007, 05:06 PM
I think LJ will gel more with the team when the team (coaches & management included) stops treating him like a friggin' oddity and commodity. 416 carries is sideshow stuff.

I think this started to become pretty apparent in his locker room interviews later in the season. "You can't just keep running into a wall" etc.

bringbackmarty
02-15-2007, 05:18 PM
You seriously need to shove your keyboard up your ass. It would do everyone a whole lot better there.

Wow, youtelling me to put something up my ass, that's rich......

Why post on a chiefs board if you're only an l.j. fan and not a chief fan.
Here's a board for L.J. Fans

http://community.livejournal.com/kevin_n_bean/

anyways, I know I called you a fat retard and it still stands. why don't we just put each other on ignore.

Bowser
02-15-2007, 05:20 PM
To me this is a non-issue.

I think every player should be considered for trade every year. All options should remain open.

Now, I know the real world doesn't work this way ~ Gonzo probably has a no trade clause, most players have no trade value, etc., but for players that do have potential trade value we'd have to test the waters.

If some team wants to give us the sun and the moon, let them. If we're never offered enough, keep him.

Luz
his character has nothing to do with the above philosophy...

:clap:

penchief
02-15-2007, 05:36 PM
Man, I like LJ. I do know that we haven't seen his best yet. The only time he's had favorable conditions to work with was when Priest laid down and LJ took over in '05. He tore it up. He made lemonade out of lemons in '06.

If we had a good run-blocking line and used LJ out of the backfield on passing downs instead of blocking, he'd probably put together one of the more awesome seasons imaginable.

We need to find a way to get him the ball with a little space rather than pounding him into the line repeatedly. That's just a misuse of his talent, IMO. With only a little space, he's as intimidating a factor one can imagine; deceptively elusive, blazing open field speed, punishing power, great open-field vision, and a desire to be great.

Is he a personal enigma? probably. But his idiosyncracies point more to pride and accomplishment than selfishness, IMO.

milkman
02-15-2007, 07:30 PM
Figures you would do that......

for what, a good but not great running back, who often shows signs of immaturity, who cannot pass block, whiffs blocks, and fumbles in crucial games and at critical times, and loses his playbook. Not to mention he is obviously mentally and emotionally confused, has issues with women, and he basically assaulted that guy with the dreads on the field early last season.

Then there is my least favorite thing about him, he hates Dick Vermiel.
Say what you want about Vermiel, but he is a great coach, and a good person. Maybe Dick Vermiels brand of football is not Chiefs football, but it sure is fun to watch, and the NFL is better for it.

L.J. needs to improve a lot as a player and a person before he starts criticizing a surefire HOF coach. Not to mention the bullshit race card he seems to be playing now.

I highly doubt that Dick is a surefire HOF coach, and the fact that he sucked ass in KC probably hurt his chance of ever making it.

milkman
02-15-2007, 07:32 PM
Nobody is gonna want LJ, unless they're completly desperate i.e. injuries at the last minute. So even thinking about trading him is counter-productive. What we need is obvious, OL help, WR help and a true #1 QB things that other teams aren't exactly giving away these days.
We can patch a few holes with the draft and FA and that's the best we can do.
I say go get David Carr, Kyle Boller and let see who the best man is after it's all said and done

Just say no to Carr and Boller.

NewChief
02-15-2007, 07:34 PM
I highly doubt that Dick is a surefire HOF coach, and the fact that he sucked ass in KC probably hurt his chance of ever making it.

Two SBs at two franchises doesn't get it done? On top of that, the guy is known for having one of the more unique coaching styles out there. I think that, perhaps, the game has passed him by at this point, but I think he gets in for the infamous sob fests if nothing else.

FAX
02-15-2007, 07:38 PM
I'd be surprised if DV didn't make the hall, Mr. milkman. He has the resume. Plus, he's a national, household name with tons of contacts among media personalities at this point. I'd say he's a lock.

You're 100% spot on about Carr, though. The Texans may have ruined that guy.

FAX

milkman
02-15-2007, 08:04 PM
I may be biased about Dick, since he was a useless POS in KC.

But then, I couldn't stand him before he came to KC.

shaneo69
02-15-2007, 08:18 PM
I said this when Priest was out-performing his contract: DO NOT re-do the contract. And I wouldn't re-do LJ's contract either. If you're a GM and you finally do a good contract that helps the team, don't ruin it by then overpaying the guy just to make him happy. F*ck the players. They signed the contract. Make them live with it. If they hold out, fine, they're under contract, they get fined every day that they skip camp or practice.

Now we're getting held hostage by Priest's contract because Carl felt that he had to reward the player for playing well. Great job, you just f*cked your team's cap by making one player happy.

FAX
02-15-2007, 08:34 PM
I may be biased about Dick, since he was a useless POS in KC.

But then, I couldn't stand him before he came to KC.

I know how you feel Mr. milkman. Ultimately, he let us down, that's for sure.

I've now developed an irrational and excessive hatred of Herm, so DV seems better by comparison. Maybe I just miss Hank Stram.

FAX

mcan
02-15-2007, 08:35 PM
Frankly, LJ deserves a bigger contract. And we have no right to tell him how he should live his personal life, nor should anybody have to like him in the locker room. As long as he does his job. That said, if he's really drifting off in meetings and texting people instead of watching film, then he's not doing his job, and Herm needs to let him know what is expected of him.


I'd definately re-work the contract. He's gonna cost us big money, and that money gets bigger the closer his current contract gets to ending. God forbid he ever got to his last year, he'd have us by the balls. We're in good shape cap wise, and he's coming off a year where he wasn't the top back in the league. This may be the cheapest we'll be able to get him long term for awhile. Even if we postpone, and work something out during the season, we'll be in a tougher spot because he'll probably be vying for the rushing title...

Miles
02-15-2007, 08:38 PM
Frankly, LJ deserves a bigger contract. And we have no right to tell him how he should live his personal life, nor should anybody have to like him in the locker room. As long as he does his job. That said, if he's really drifting off in meetings and texting people instead of watching film, then he's not doing his job, and Herm needs to let him know what is expected of him.


I'd definately re-work the contract. He's gonna cost us big money, and that money gets bigger the closer his current contract gets to ending. God forbid he ever got to his last year, he'd have us by the balls. We're in good shape cap wise, and he's coming off a year where he wasn't the top back in the league. This may be the cheapest we'll be able to get him long term for awhile. Even if we postpone, and work something out during the season, we'll be in a tougher spot because he'll probably be vying for the rushing title...

I was actually fairly surprised he didn't make a big deal about his contract last year and at least threaten to hold out.

Iowanian
02-15-2007, 08:40 PM
My first thought is "you don't get rid of your best offensive player".....and then

Reality kicks in.

The Chiefs have alot of holes to fill and alot of holes that need filled by young players.

If asked if Larry Johnson would look good pass blocking for Eli and ruining chemistry with Shockey.....With Brandon Jacobs and their first round pick in KC?

In a minute I'd pull that trigger.

I'd also like to get in print again, that I was against paying an over 30 TE on a team that needs rebuilt.

mcan
02-15-2007, 08:41 PM
As for a trade: Even if we got the #1 pick in the draft, who can we reasonably expect to draft that would be in the top 3 players at their respective position in the whole NFL?


Frankly, I think draft picks are lotto tickets. The lotto sucks. Imagine if the lotto could only be played by the first 32 people to buy a ticket. The resale value of those tickets would be pretty high, but the odds of hitting the exact right 5 numbers is still the same. That's what has happened to first round draft picks. They aren't superstars that much more often than 3rd rounders. So, you have a higher expected value if you trade your early draft picks for proven players or for a BUNCH of lower draft picks.

Valiant
02-15-2007, 09:37 PM
Love LJ as a Chief performer but if I was Carl I would trade his ass to the Giants for Brandon Jacobs and there 1st...

LJ just moved to New York, He is a big name I am sure they would do the trade.. That way we get the extra first to work on our line and then have Brandon Jacobs, Micheal Bennett and hopefully Priest back next year...

I know people hate shit like that, but it would work in our favor if we don't **** up the first day drafts...

ChiefFan31
02-15-2007, 11:01 PM
It's an ancient Bakongo custom, Mr. FringeNC. Blowing raspberries on the buttocks of a chief, shaman, or highly revered tribesman was considered to be a means whereby evil spirits were dispelled from adversely affecting a particular war effort or colon.

FAX

ROFL






I also wanted to note, that I think this is a crap article and I agree with nothing he said.

Thig Lyfe
02-15-2007, 11:20 PM
LJ is the best player on the team, and I believe that he's in it to win. Ironically, the best way to get a good line for him to run behind would be to trade him for a high pick and get Joe Thomas out of Wisconsin.

It's tough to say, but if there's a way to get Joe Thomas, do it.

HMc
02-15-2007, 11:42 PM
Very good LTs >>>>> Superstar running backs. I'd give up LJ AND our 1st to get Detroit's pick.

Smed1065
02-16-2007, 02:00 AM
Man, i dont know where to fall on this, i've been one of Larrys biggest cheerleaders. I think its inappropriate to compare him to TO, but rumors of grumblings from other players & the cell phone thing do not sit well.

My leaning is to keep him, i just love his running style & despite a few dumb comments i think his heart is pretty much in the right place. What needs to happen is for Carl to sit him down & read him his rights, "ya know i love ya Lare, your one of my finest picks...but if this keeps up i will move Heaven & Earth to ship ya to Houston".

Thats my take & if i could give Jason rep for "Bay Bay McWorkout"... LMAO , i would.

I say he is getting worse as far as a cancer but if you believe witless, he is taking the actions of the DV era and making it seem like yesterday.IMO.

htismaqe
02-16-2007, 08:40 AM
I know how you feel Mr. milkman. Ultimately, he let us down, that's for sure.

I've now developed an irrational and excessive hatred of Herm, so DV seems better by comparison. Maybe I just miss Hank Stram.

FAX

It's all good.

I actually liked Dick Vermeil for the first couple of years and defended him tooth and nail. I realized about halfway through 2003 that the only reason I liked Vermeil was because I so DESPISED Marty and Gunther.

I fell into the SAME TRAP with Herm, wanting to give him a chance because I was so sick of Vermeil. I've given up on that.

Short Leash Hootie
02-16-2007, 08:45 AM
It's all good.

I actually liked Dick Vermeil for the first couple of years and defended him tooth and nail. I realized about halfway through 2003 that the only reason I liked Vermeil was because I so DESPISED Marty and Gunther.

I fell into the SAME TRAP with Herm, wanting to give him a chance because I was so sick of Vermeil. I've given up on that.
maybe it's just impossible for you to be pleased?

Short Leash Hootie
02-16-2007, 08:47 AM
I said this when Priest was out-performing his contract: DO NOT re-do the contract. And I wouldn't re-do LJ's contract either. If you're a GM and you finally do a good contract that helps the team, don't ruin it by then overpaying the guy just to make him happy. F*ck the players. They signed the contract. Make them live with it. If they hold out, fine, they're under contract, they get fined every day that they skip camp or practice.

Now we're getting held hostage by Priest's contract because Carl felt that he had to reward the player for playing well. Great job, you just f*cked your team's cap by making one player happy.
LJ is NEVER going to finish this contract. It makes no sense, at all, for him as a player.

RB's have a very short career...why would he waste his prime playing for 'pennies' when he should be earning 10 times as much?

If Carl doesn't redo his contract and LJ holds out, anyone who blames LJ is simply an idiot.

siberian khatru
02-16-2007, 08:49 AM
I fell into the SAME TRAP with Herm, wanting to give him a chance because I was so sick of Vermeil. I've given up on that.

I gave Herm a chance because, well, I think new guys always deserve a chance.

He's not rewarded that to my satisfaction. Two games -- Cleveland and Indy -- just put the zap on my brain.

However, I also know he ain't going anywhere for awhile, so I just have to hope for the best. But my expectations are about as low as they've been in years. I fully expect mediocre football for the foreseeable future.

About the best I can hope for is that Herm is a good evaluator of talent and that he rebuilds the team for another coach to take to a higher level.

htismaqe
02-16-2007, 09:36 AM
maybe it's just impossible for you to be pleased?

Why should I be pleased with 3 playoff appearances in 10 years and no ****ing wins?

Should Arizona Cardinal and Detroit Lion fans be pleased? Because those are the two teams that share the CELLAR with us.

Short Leash Hootie
02-16-2007, 10:02 AM
Why should I be pleased with 3 playoff appearances in 10 years and no ****ing wins?

Should Arizona Cardinal and Detroit Lion fans be pleased? Because those are the two teams that share the CELLAR with us.
well who should we hire that'll make you happy?

If we hired Parcells would you be happy? Bellichek? What if they coach us for three years and we don't reach the playoffs? Is it Carl's fault again?

htismaqe
02-16-2007, 10:04 AM
well who should we hire that'll make you happy?

If we hired Parcells would you be happy? Bellichek? What if they coach us for three years and we don't reach the playoffs? Is it Carl's fault again?

Parcells? No. He's done.

Belichek? Not unless he's got COMPLETE control and is allowed to bring in his own personnel people.

And yes, Carl is in CHARGE. If the organization fails, he is absolutely at fault.

I would rather have a NEW coach, like Payton in New Orleans. My first choice would have been Mike Trgovac.

Short Leash Hootie
02-16-2007, 10:08 AM
well, I don't think Herm necessarily did a poor job last year. Offensively, I wish he'd just sit on the bench and close his eyes and let someone else control every decision in terms of when to go for it, when to call a timeout, etc. etc. etc.

But defensively, I think we made big strides and I think Herm is going to build a very good defense.

I think I'll give him THIS year to show me what kind of coach he is...if Huard or Green remains our starting QB, there is no reason why we shouldn't make the playoffs and make some noise...

I mean, why else would we start Green or Huard over Croyle if we're not thought to be playoff caliber? If Herm starts one of those two and we win 6 games, then I'll agree and hope we find a new coach.

But for the time being, I think Herm did an ok job considering he lost Roaf and the QB situation the way it was...and we somehow managed to make the playoffs...and we defended Manning pretty well which was nice.

So, eh, the whole season was eh...but I don't think Herm necessarily did an awful job. Probably a C+ or B-...interested in what happens this offseason/next season...and then I'll have a better idea of what I think of Herm Edwards.

htismaqe
02-16-2007, 10:11 AM
well, I don't think Herm necessarily did a poor job last year. Offensively, I wish he'd just sit on the bench and close his eyes and let someone else control every decision in terms of when to go for it, when to call a timeout, etc. etc. etc.

But defensively, I think we made big strides and I think Herm is going to build a very good defense.

I think I'll give him THIS year to show me what kind of coach he is...if Huard or Green remains our starting QB, there is no reason why we shouldn't make the playoffs and make some noise...

I mean, why else would we start Green or Huard over Croyle if we're not thought to be playoff caliber? If Herm starts one of those two and we win 6 games, then I'll agree and hope we find a new coach.

But for the time being, I think Herm did an ok job considering he lost Roaf and the QB situation the way it was...and we somehow managed to make the playoffs...and we defended Manning pretty well which was nice.

So, eh, the whole season was eh...but I don't think Herm necessarily did an awful job. Probably a C+ or B-...interested in what happens this offseason/next season...and then I'll have a better idea of what I think of Herm Edwards.

Coping with the offensive problems, particularly the loss of Roaf, this last season wasn't NEARLY as damning as coming out after the Indy loss and throwing the offensive SCHEME under the bus, stating that it needed to be simplified.

I like what he's done with the defense, but I cannot for the life of me understand why this team is ALWAYS slanted so horribly towards one side of the ball. Other teams in this league build balance, why can't we?

The QB situation is one I anxiously await as well.

If Herm starts Green or Huard, he and everyone around him is satisfied with the status quo and it's time to move on to the act of waiting for him to leave.

Short Leash Hootie
02-16-2007, 10:16 AM
I think with a new LT, Huard/TG/LJ would be enough to generate enough offense to make us competitive, especially if our defense improves like it should...I'm excited to see Pollard and Page on the field together...look at Rhodes/Coleman over in New York...they are terriffic. Herm definitely knows how to build a secondary. DJ is going to be a monster this season, I can feel it...really wish they'd move him to MLB, but we'll see.

We have the potential to win the west with a few offseason moves, of course, we're far from super bowl bound, but I'd rather see us win 11 games and maybe a playoff game than win 6 games and get crushed week in and week out.

I want to see a Super Bowl as much as anyone else, but starting the rebuilding process this year is totally pointless...it wouldn't help Croyle one bit.

jspchief
02-16-2007, 10:19 AM
Not sure if it's been said yet....

Seattle put Shawn Alexander out there for trade two years ago. Alexander has twice the resume LJ does, without the bad attitude. And no one bit on it.

You can get RBs in the first round that will be close enough in production, and have a rookie contract instead of a monster FA contract.

RB doesn't have the value to command a 1st round pick, let alone a pick + a player.

htismaqe
02-16-2007, 10:24 AM
I think with a new LT, Huard/TG/LJ would be enough to generate enough offense to make us competitive, especially if our defense improves like it should...I'm excited to see Pollard and Page on the field together...look at Rhodes/Coleman over in New York...they are terriffic. Herm definitely knows how to build a secondary. DJ is going to be a monster this season, I can feel it...really wish they'd move him to MLB, but we'll see.

We have the potential to win the west with a few offseason moves, of course, we're far from super bowl bound, but I'd rather see us win 11 games and maybe a playoff game than win 6 games and get crushed week in and week out.

I want to see a Super Bowl as much as anyone else, but starting the rebuilding process this year is totally pointless...it wouldn't help Croyle one bit.

We're not going to make the Super Bowl next year. It's not gonna happen. I'm not interested in seeing another year of over-the-hill QB's gearing us up for a 1st-round playoff exit.

You may want to watch 11 wins and a playoff exit, but I don't. Super Bowl or bust. It's been 14 years since we were even close to a conference championship and I'm tired of it.

Dump the old guys, play the young guys. Take our lumps, get a better draft pick, and get ready to make a REAL run, not a fake one.

htismaqe
02-16-2007, 10:25 AM
Not sure if it's been said yet....

Seattle put Shawn Alexander out there for trade two years ago. Alexander has twice the resume LJ does, without the bad attitude. And no one bit on it.

You can get RBs in the first round that will be close enough in production, and have a rookie contract instead of a monster FA contract.

RB doesn't have the value to command a 1st round pick, let alone a pick + a player.

It has been said, but that's ok, it's worth repeating.

One thing people will respond to you with is "Clinton Portis was worth a pick and a player".

Yep, he was at the time. And EVERY NFL EXEC sees what happened. No way will any of them make that mistake.

dirk digler
02-16-2007, 10:28 AM
Not sure if it's been said yet....

Seattle put Shawn Alexander out there for trade two years ago. Alexander has twice the resume LJ does, without the bad attitude. And no one bit on it.

You can get RBs in the first round that will be close enough in production, and have a rookie contract instead of a monster FA contract.

RB doesn't have the value to command a 1st round pick, let alone a pick + a player.

Yep.

My opinion is to pay LJ the money because he earned it and ride him until his legs fall off.

Woodrow Call
02-16-2007, 10:36 AM
I think with a new LT, Huard/TG/LJ would be enough to generate enough offense to make us competitive, especially if our defense improves like it should...I'm excited to see Pollard and Page on the field together...look at Rhodes/Coleman over in New York...they are terriffic. Herm definitely knows how to build a secondary. DJ is going to be a monster this season, I can feel it...really wish they'd move him to MLB, but we'll see.

We have the potential to win the west with a few offseason moves, of course, we're far from super bowl bound, but I'd rather see us win 11 games and maybe a playoff game than win 6 games and get crushed week in and week out.

I want to see a Super Bowl as much as anyone else, but starting the rebuilding process this year is totally pointless...it wouldn't help Croyle one bit.

I'm might be the biggest Herm fan here but I think next year is going to rough. The offense needs 2 tackles, a guard, a center; a WR, and QB. The D needs a DE, 2 DTs, a MLB, an OLB and will probably have 2 2nd yr safeties starting.

I think 7 wins might be stretching it and I'm fine with that. IMO Herm was hired to get one last run with the old guys and then rebuild. Year 3 and 4 are the only years I have hope of making a run.

bringbackmarty
02-16-2007, 09:05 PM
Honestly Dick's brand of ball isn't my cup of tea either. I appreciate it for what it is though. That offense is fun to watch, but I like watching great defense more.

But a lot of people really dug him, he is a classy guy, and he went to two bowls, won one of them, and has a shitload of offensive records in the book.

He'll be in canton by 2112.

StcChief
02-16-2007, 09:30 PM
Honestly Dick's brand of ball isn't my cup of tea either. I appreciate it for what it is though. That offense is fun to watch, but I like watching great defense more.

But a lot of people really dug him, he is a classy guy, and he went to two bowls, won one of them, and has a shitload of offensive records in the book.

He'll be in canton by 2112.2112 where's Halfcan.....ROFL.

Bring back Marty. NFW.

"If I had luck" "it would be no luck at all'

this guy could FU a one car parade.

Toad
02-16-2007, 10:33 PM
FWIW, I'm fine with seeking a trade if it gets us some decent draft picks. More draft picks gets us a better shot at trading up to get a franchise QB.

That said, Carl will NEVER trade LJ for 2 simple reasons:

1) LJ is a legitimate right-now star that keeps us hovering at 8-8 and that keeps the meat in the chairs.

2) Carl's ego - LJ is Carl's guy. He won't let him get away even if he has to "overpay" for him.

Cochise
02-16-2007, 10:46 PM
The thing about a trade is that it's hard to get good value for a player like that. If we traded him for a package and even if it included a first round pick, if that player didn't pan out, where are we?

FAX
02-16-2007, 10:52 PM
The thing about a trade is that it's hard to get good value for a player like that. If we traded him for a package and even if it included a first round pick, if that player didn't pan out, where are we?

Blood sucked dry of all hope as if we had been attacked by an oversexed, drug-crazed, vagrant vampiress, Mr. Cochise.

Similar to our current situation.

FAX

Toad
02-16-2007, 10:55 PM
Where are we? ...just enough talent to keep us hovering at 8-8, but not enough talent to get us to a playoff win. In other words, no better- no worse. But a trade gives us a shot at attaining a franchise QB.

FAX
02-16-2007, 10:57 PM
You speak with iron (albeit somewhat sticky) tongue, Mr. Toad.

FAX

Toad
02-16-2007, 11:04 PM
"Life and death are in the power of the tounge"...says some verse in the bible.