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jAZ
02-19-2007, 11:02 PM
I'm pretty sure this guy isn't it, but there's a sizeable group that seems to think he is. Seems like all you have to do is be believable and with enough followers... you create your own "reality".

If that's the case, how in the world would we ever know objectively that someone is Jesus returned?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/16/miami.preacher/index.html

Pastor with 666 tattoo claims to be divine
POSTED: 2:08 p.m. EST, February 19, 2007

By John Zarrella and Patrick Oppmann
CNN

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- The minister has the number 666 tattooed on his arm.

But Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda is not your typical minister. De Jesus, or "Daddy" as his thousands of followers call him, does not merely pray to God: He says he is God.

"The spirit that is in me is the same spirit that was in Jesus of Nazareth," de Jesus says.

De Jesus' claims of divinity have angered Christian leaders, who say he is a fake. Religious experts say he may be something much more dangerous, a cult leader who really believes he is God. (Watch followers get 666 tattoos for their leader )

"He's in their heads, he's inside the heads of those people," says Prof. Daniel Alvarez, a religion expert at Florida International University who has debated some of de Jesus' followers.

"De Jesus speaks with a kind of conviction that makes me consider him more like David Koresh or Jim Jones."

Is de Jesus really a cult leader like David Koresh, who died with more than 70 of his Branch Davidian followers in a fiery end to a standoff with federal authorities, or Jim Jones, the founder of the Peoples Temple who committed mass suicide with 900 followers in 1978?

Prophets 'spoke to me'
De Jesus and his believers say their church -- "Creciendo en Gracia," Spanish for "Growing in grace" -- is misunderstood. Followers of the movement say they have proof that their minister is divine and that their church will one day soon be a major faith in the world.

But even de Jesus concedes that he is an unlikely leader of a church that claims thousands of members in more than 30 countries.

De Jesus, 61, grew up poor in Puerto Rico. He says he served stints in prison there for petty theft and says he was a heroin addict.

De Jesus says he learned he was Jesus reincarnate when he was visited in a dream by angels.

"The prophets, they spoke about me. It took me time to learn that, but I am what they were expecting, what they have been expecting for 2,000 years," de Jesus says.

The church that he began building 20 years ago in Miami resembles no other:


Followers have protested Christian churches in Miami and Latin America, disrupting services and smashing crosses and statues of Jesus.


De Jesus preaches there is no devil and no sin. His followers, he says, literally can do no wrong in God's eyes.


The church calls itself the "Government of God on Earth" and uses a seal similar to the United States.

Doing God's work with a Lexus and Rolex
If Creciendo en Gracia is an atypical religious group, de Jesus also does not fit the mold of the average church leader. De Jesus flouts traditional vows of poverty.

He says he has a church-paid salary of $136,000 but lives more lavishly than that. During an interview, he showed off a diamond-encrusted Rolex to a CNN crew and said he has three just like them. He travels in armored Lexuses and BMWs, he says, for his safety. All are gifts from his devoted followers.

And what about the tattoo of 666 on his arm?

Although it's a number usually associated with Satan, not the son of God, de Jesus says that 666 and the Antichrist are, like him, misunderstood.

The Antichrist is not the devil, de Jesus tells his congregation; he's the being who replaces Jesus on Earth.

"Antichrist is the best person in the world," he says. "Antichrist means don't put your eyes on Jesus because Jesus of Nazareth wasn't a Christian. Antichrist means do not put your eyes on Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Put it on Jesus after the cross."

And de Jesus says that means him.

So far, de Jesus says that his flock hasn't been scared off by his claims of being the Antichrist. In a show of the sway he holds over the group, 30 members of his congregation Tuesday went to a tattoo parlor to have 666 also permanently etched onto their skin.

He may wield influence over them, but his followers say don't expect them to go the way of people who believed in David Koresh and Jim Jones. Just by finding de Jesus, they say, they have achieved their purpose.

"If somebody tells us drink some Kool-Aid and we'll go to heaven, that's not true. We are already in heavenly places," follower Martita Roca told CNN after having 666 tattooed onto her ankle.

L.A. Chieffan
02-19-2007, 11:03 PM
Isn't that a Monty Python skit?

boogblaster
02-19-2007, 11:05 PM
Skinny guy, long hair, food in his beard, selling bibles on the street, long white robe that smells like a old cave ....

88TG88
02-19-2007, 11:07 PM
If that's the case, how in the world would we ever know objectively that someone is Jesus returned?


http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/players/damon_huard.jpg

Guru
02-19-2007, 11:09 PM
He is no one. If he were anybody, he could only be the Antichrist. But the Antichrist won't make himself known. He will be thrust into power by the people who think he is the answer to all the worlds problems. Nothing like this though.

Smed1065
02-19-2007, 11:12 PM
"If Jesus were to ever return... how would anyone know it was him?"

Because he would lead the Chiefs to a SB victory!

FAX
02-19-2007, 11:29 PM
Jesus said that, before the end of days, many would come and claim to be him. But, humans weren't to believe these imposters. Basically, he said that, when he arrives, everyone will know.

I imagine that's because he'll come in with guns a blazin'

FAX

Guru
02-19-2007, 11:36 PM
Jesus said that, before the end of days, many would come and claim to be him. But, humans weren't to believe these imposters. Basically, he said that, when he arrives, everyone will know.

I imagine that's because he'll come in with guns a blazin'

FAX

Everyone will know because Armageddon will have already happened.

el borracho
02-19-2007, 11:52 PM
Ask for two forms of photo id.

Jayhawkerman2001
02-20-2007, 12:02 AM
its kinda funny, ive been wondering that very same thing for awhile now. How many people say they're jesus these days? a shit ton. Personally its all just smoke and mirrors to get people to be good, and for the most part, its worked.

Guru
02-20-2007, 12:05 AM
Why do I expect to see Believer on this thread at some point. As a new user name of course.

Jenson71
02-20-2007, 12:08 AM
666 - like this means anything signifcant. Don't worry, no need to look busy when Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda comes around.

RedThat
02-20-2007, 12:32 AM
Jesus said that, before the end of days, many would come and claim to be him. But, humans weren't to believe these imposters. Basically, he said that, when he arrives, everyone will know.

I imagine that's because he'll come in with guns a blazin'

FAX

And Mr. Fax, may I please elaborate on your part?

The answer to the topic of this thread is found in Matthew chapter 24:23. And also continues in Matthew chapter 24:29

Here goes:

"Then, if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or 'There he is!'-do not believe him. For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear;they will perform great miracles and wonders in order to deceive even God's chosen people, if possible. Listen! I have told you this ahead of time.

"Or, if people should tell you, 'Look, he is out in the desert!'-don't go there;or if they say, 'Look, he is hiding there!'-don't believe it.
For the Son of Man will come like the lightning which flashes across the whole sky from the east to the west.

"Wherever there is a dead body, the vultures will gather.

"Soon after the trouble of those days, the sun will grow dark, the moon will no longer shine, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers in space will be driven fron their courses. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky;and all the peoples of the earth will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other.

FAX
02-20-2007, 12:38 AM
I, for one, look forward with great anticipation to that day, Mr. RedBull.

And, we can only hope that Louis Armstrong will be on the trump.

FAX

Smed1065
02-20-2007, 02:59 AM
Four corners? The earth is flat?

Kerberos
02-20-2007, 04:50 AM
Did anyone else see the guys picture on that link?

J.H. on his vest?

Would that make him Jesus H. Christ?

ROFL

.

HarryParatestes
02-20-2007, 04:53 AM
Hummm why did the name JIM JONES jump to mind when I saw this?

Buck
02-20-2007, 05:04 AM
Dont Drink the Kool Aid

chagrin
02-20-2007, 05:29 AM
Why are all these freaks in Florida? What a complete nut job

C-Mac
02-20-2007, 06:35 AM
De Jesus, 61, grew up poor in Puerto Rico. He says he served stints in prison there for petty theft and says he was a heroin addict.

Wow.... its hard to believe that God was once a thief and a herion addict.

C-Mac
02-20-2007, 06:37 AM
He is no one. If he were anybody, he could only be the Antichrist. But the Antichrist won't make himself known. He will be thrust into power by the people who think he is the answer to all the worlds problems. Nothing like this though.

The anti-christ is not just one person, there are many of them.

Bearcat
02-20-2007, 06:44 AM
If that's the case, how in the world would we ever know objectively that someone is Jesus returned?

If he could part the red sea of the narrow Arrowhead concourses?

InChiefsHell
02-20-2007, 06:46 AM
Put a bullet in his head. If he shrugs it off, he's God.

KC Jones
02-20-2007, 07:09 AM
When Jesus returns I think we will know it's him cause he'll have like 3 or 4 diamond encrusted rolexes, armored luxury cars, and some hot secretaries. Oh crap - I gots to get to Florida and see the returned lord. I wonder if he'll mind if I hit some spring break parties on the trip? Maybe I'll bring him some hookers and coke as a peace offering.

InChiefsHell
02-20-2007, 07:23 AM
Seriously, I'm surprised somebody hasn't tried to whack this guy just to prove he's a con-man...

BucEyedPea
02-20-2007, 07:26 AM
Did anyone else see the guys picture on that link?

J.H. on his vest?

Would that make him Jesus H. Christ?

Hey that's blasphemy. His middle name is really Harold. :p

Rooster
02-20-2007, 07:30 AM
Tom Cruise is so pissed off right now.

BucEyedPea
02-20-2007, 07:33 AM
I'm pretty sure this guy isn't it, but there's a sizeable group that seems to think he is. Seems like all you have to do is be believable and with enough followers... you create your own "reality".

I took a philosophy course once and reality is just what we agree it is.

Anyhow, I thought of this when you asked this. The early followers of Christ who were jews, were considered a cult at the time. The jewish mainstream or heirarchy didn't accept him as the Messiah—nor did the Romans. This isn't to say it wasn't real for his followers. Nor am I saying Jesus of Nazareth wasn't Christ. If something becomes a big enough following or agreement, which Christianity did eventually, that becomes the reality even if some disagree.

chagrin
02-20-2007, 07:38 AM
I took a philosophy course once and reality is just what we agree it is.

Anyhow, I thought of this when you asked this. The early followers of Christ who were jews, were considered a cult at the time. The jewish mainstream or heirarchy didn't accept him as the Messiah—nor did the Romans. This isn't to say it wasn't real for his followers. Nor am I saying Jesus of Nazareth wasn't Christ. If something becomes a big enough following or agreement, which Christianity did eventually, that becomes the reality even if some disagree.


My first thought here is, I took a Social Theory class once and reality is what we are told it is, so um...which is correct?

Okay, is this supposed to be educational, because right now you're just summarizing the Bible - doesn't everyone already know this? I mean anyone who truly seeks knowledge would.

King_Chief_Fan
02-20-2007, 07:41 AM
Hence the warning of false prohets and those who will claim to be the Christ.

jidar
02-20-2007, 07:51 AM
You'll know it's the real Jesus, he'll be the make-believe guy.

AZORChiefFan
02-20-2007, 08:07 AM
I just realized that I am not Jesus last night actually. I was thinking about it and I'd be over at a party and you know how friends can be 'Jesus make us some wine, prove to us you are the son of god' so I would. Then 1 of em would piss me off so I'd leave but not before turning the wine back into water.

Sully
02-20-2007, 09:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmviHBCqKow

NSFW- language.

Psyko Tek
02-20-2007, 11:30 AM
How will we know it's jesus?

Easy, he'll be the guy on the cross

wilas101
02-20-2007, 11:47 AM
I haven't read every post in what I'm sure is a grade A theological discussion but it cracks me up that the "christian community" all jump up at once and proclaim this guy a fake.

Do they have private access to God's myspace page or something? How do they immediately know this dude ain't who he says he is? I say give the dude the benefit of the doubt.... have him walk on water or give a 3 legged dog another leg or something and verify his claims.

it's only fair.

El Jefe
02-20-2007, 12:13 PM
We (that is us who have accepted Jesus into our hearts) will know who Jesus is because he will come in a twinkling of an eye and take us back with him to heaven. The rest of you will be Left Behind just like the movie. After Jesus takes us home there will be an anti-christ that comes and unites the world under one religion. This guy they are talking about is nothing more than a joke and he is not the anti-christ or anywhere near it. Stupid Mexican.

Sully
02-20-2007, 12:15 PM
We (that is us who have accepted Jesus into our hearts) will know who Jesus is because he will come in a twinkling of an eye and take us back with him to heaven. The rest of you will be Left Behind just like the movie. After Jesus takes us home there will be an anti-christ that comes and unites the world under one religion. This guy they are talking about is nothing more than a joke and he is not the anti-christ or anywhere near it. Stupid Mexican.



ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Ultra Peanut
02-20-2007, 12:15 PM
De Jesus, or "Daddy" as his thousands of followers call him, does not merely pray to God: He says he is God.Nobody ****s with De Jesus!

Stewie
02-20-2007, 12:19 PM
We (that is us who have accepted Jesus into our hearts) will know who Jesus is because he will come in a twinkling of an eye and take us back with him to heaven. The rest of you will be Left Behind just like the movie. After Jesus takes us home there will be an anti-christ that comes and unites the world under one religion. This guy they are talking about is nothing more than a joke and he is not the anti-christ or anywhere near it. Stupid Mexican.

Weren't you supposed to catch a ride behind a comet a few years back?

InChiefsHell
02-20-2007, 12:54 PM
We (that is us who have accepted Jesus into our hearts) will know who Jesus is because he will come in a twinkling of an eye and take us back with him to heaven. The rest of you will be Left Behind just like the movie. After Jesus takes us home there will be an anti-christ that comes and unites the world under one religion. This guy they are talking about is nothing more than a joke and he is not the anti-christ or anywhere near it. Stupid Mexican.

The Left Behind series is bad theology, as is the Rapture in general.

Sully
02-20-2007, 12:56 PM
The Left Behind series is bad theology, as is the Rapture in general.

But I do think I found something that makes me laugh harder than bumper sticker theology....

...straight to video theology.

chagrin
02-20-2007, 12:58 PM
But I do think I found something that makes me laugh harder than bumper sticker theology....

...straight to video theology.


Speaking of laughable, how 'bout them Penguins, their one good season for the next 10 years, eh? hyuk hyuk hyuk

Sully
02-20-2007, 01:06 PM
Speaking of laughable, how 'bout them Penguins, their one good season for the next 10 years, eh? hyuk hyuk hyuk


You know I'm a Wings fan at heart (until we get a KC team). I'm just pimping them in case they move here.

Ebolapox
02-20-2007, 01:50 PM
he'd be the guy sitting on the bus trying to find his way home

nobody to call him on the phone, 'cept for the pope, maybe, in rome

InChiefsHell
02-20-2007, 01:53 PM
He'd be the guy who looks like Ted Nugent.

Ebolapox
02-20-2007, 01:56 PM
He'd be the guy who looks like Ted Nugent.

sh*t, I'm pretty sure it IS Ted Nugent.

Kerberos
02-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Weren't you supposed to catch a ride behind a comet a few years back?

ROFL

I remember those hacks. :shake: This guy was left behind for our amusement!

:D

.

HMc
02-20-2007, 10:58 PM
as a piece of fiction, the bible was either wonderfully crafted to have every angle covered (i.e. there'll be a whole load of fakes but when he comes you will "know", beautifully ambiguous) or the loopiest piece of fantasy ever written (Moses parting the Red Sea).

Rain Man
02-20-2007, 11:14 PM
If Jesus were to ever return... how would anyone know it was him?


When he starts up a megachain of Jesus' Fish & Wine House and has positive earnings surprises on Wall Street every single quarter.

FAX
02-20-2007, 11:18 PM
When he starts up a megachain of Jesus' Fish & Wine House and has positive earnings surprises on Wall Street every single quarter.

Good thought, Mr. Rain Man.

Personally, I always thought Jesus would make one hell of an optometrist.

FAX

Rain Man
02-20-2007, 11:19 PM
Good thought, Mr. Rain Man.

Personally, I always thought Jesus would make one hell of an optometrist.

FAX

Logo:


"Blindness cured in 60 minutes or you get a free pair of sunglasses."

FAX
02-20-2007, 11:24 PM
Logo:


"Blindness cured in 60 minutes or you get a free pair of sunglasses."

Lens Jesus.

"We are the way, the truth, and the light frames are 1/2 price."

FAX

FAX
02-20-2007, 11:29 PM
Lens Jesus.

"Got beam? We can help."

FAX

Rain Man
02-20-2007, 11:49 PM
I think I'd go with LensMessiah.

"Come see the light. Can you see it better with ... 1 ... or with 2? 1...or 2?"

Rain Man
02-20-2007, 11:59 PM
LensMessiah: "Frames Half Off For Lepers"

FAX
02-21-2007, 12:01 AM
I think I'd go with LensMessiah.

"Come see the light. Can you see it better with ... 1 ... or with 2? 1...or 2?"

I think Lens Jesus is better, Mr. Rain Man. Are you sure you aren't changing it just to make trouble?

Lens Jesus

"When You Seek And Can't Find."

FAX

Rain Man
02-21-2007, 12:05 AM
I think Lens Jesus is better, Mr. Rain Man. Are you sure you aren't changing it just to make trouble?

Lens Jesus

"When You Seek And Can't Find."

FAX

Trouble is my middle name. It's just badly misspelled on my birth certificate.

Lens Jesus: Buy two pairs, get eternal salvation free.

FAX
02-21-2007, 12:06 AM
Lens Jesus

"Where Your Vision Is Us."

FAX

RJ
02-21-2007, 12:12 AM
The Omni-Tometrist.

Our motto.....

"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

Free exams, 12 months no payment, no interest, OAC.

FAX
02-21-2007, 12:17 AM
The Omni-Tometrist.

Our motto.....

"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

Free exams, 12 months no payment, no interest, OAC.

With all respect, Mr. RJ, I'm not sure an optometrist slogan suggesting the plucking out of offending eyes is going to bring in much business.

FAX

FAX
02-21-2007, 12:21 AM
Lens Jesus.

"Where There Is No Vision, The People Perish. And, That's Our Promise."

FAX

KILLER_CLOWN
02-21-2007, 12:30 AM
Comprehension is such a beautiful thing, i'm sure Jesus will bear the mark of the beast.

RJ
02-21-2007, 07:04 AM
With all respect, Mr. RJ, I'm not sure an optometrist slogan suggesting the plucking out of offending eyes is going to bring in much business.

FAX


Did I mention the free eyeglass case?

listopencil
02-21-2007, 10:04 AM
You are all going to Hell.

L.A. Chieffan
02-21-2007, 10:06 AM
Is the J man back yet?

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 10:29 AM
InChiefsHell, the left behind series is bad theology as is the rapture itself". You do not have a clue what you are talking about Left Behind theology is very close, and as for the rapture it will happen just like it says in the bible. Stewie "werent you suppose to catch a ride behind a comet a few years back", I do not have a clue what you are talking about.

CoMoChief
02-21-2007, 10:32 AM
I imagine Jesus as a mischievous badger.

Mr. Kotter
02-21-2007, 10:34 AM
I hate to admit it, but I use to love this song.... :redface:



If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?
If you were faced with him
In all his glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

*And yeah, yeah, God is great
Yeah, yeah, God is good
Yeah, yeah, yeah-yeah-yeah

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that
you would have to believe
in things like heaven and in Jesus and the saints
and all the prophets (*)

Trying to make his way home
Back up to heaven all alone
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome(*)

Just trying to make his way home
Like a holy rolling stone
Back up to heaven all alone
Just trying to make his way home
Nobody calling on the phone
'cept for the Pope maybe in Rome

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 11:33 AM
CoMoChief, you are stupid.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 11:34 AM
Mr. Cooter, I think that song sucks.

Mr. Laz
02-21-2007, 12:30 PM
if Jesus was ever to return he'd be scorned by the religious right as a tree huggin' liberal. He'd be labeled soft on crime, and they would claim he didn't support the troops because he didn't like war.

Iowanian
02-21-2007, 12:34 PM
I don't think it will be difficult.

He'll be the guy moonwalking across Lake Tahoe, farting lightening thunder right after the sky opens and an angry God says "Don't Make me Come Down there!"

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 12:44 PM
Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.

CoMoChief
02-21-2007, 01:10 PM
Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.


You need to lighten up man. Or you could just go away.

FAX
02-21-2007, 01:12 PM
I liked that song, too, Mr. Kotter.

But, I really liked the girl who sang it. I heard her wailing out some blues on an underground radio program once. She has great pipes.

FAX

FAX
02-21-2007, 01:14 PM
Lens Jesus.

"Don't Miss Our Eye For An Eye Specials Every Thursday!"

FAX

CoMoChief
02-21-2007, 01:34 PM
Lens Jesus.

"Don't Miss Our Eye For An Eye Specials Every Thursday!"

FAX


ROFL

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 02:01 PM
Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.



Hey, we'll determine whats funny or not.




Besides, we'll know it will be Jesus because of the insane pure white aura surrounding him, and all the angels flying around him.


Peace will be known throughout, He'll judge the living and the dead, every horrible thing will be stricken down, the Bible says this...its true.

All you naysayers will be having a sin orgy in Hades only it wont be cool to be a participant...your soul will be consumed by flame and tortured for eternity...your nightmares and demons will rip and tear your soul constantly. Every horrible thought you have hadagainst someone will be back on you tenfold...this is why you must follow the ten commandments.

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 02:05 PM
He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye.


And you know that he'll just appear and disappear with all the good people?


What are you going to do when HE comes back and wipes the slate clean, inherits a country and no one leaves Earth..and he brings heaven here



What are your thoughts on heaven? How about this...Maybe we are living in HELL as we speak and Heaven is really on earth, but we have to be dead to see it...and if you take the fast track there by suicide then you'll be in hell.

or

Maybe we're already dead and we're just looking back..

CoMoChief
02-21-2007, 02:09 PM
Dear 8 pound, 6 ounce baby Jesus...

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 02:23 PM
Mr. Cooter, I think that song sucks.


SInce when was it right for Christians to put down others opinions??


or better yet you hipocrite bastard

"Posted by kcchiefsfanGoLJ - Today at 08:33 AM CoMoChief, you are stupid. "


Dont judge others lest you be judged yourself....

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 02:38 PM
Redrum_69 that is really really weak.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 02:40 PM
Redrum_69 go ahead and judge me dont chastise me like you are an authority figure over me, because I dont give a crap if you think I am a hypocrite because I called someone stupid, wow he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 02:47 PM
Redrum_69 go ahead and judge me dont chastise me like you are an authority figure over me, because I dont give a crap if you think I am a hypocrite because I called someone stupid, wow he who is perfect let him cast the first stone.



I'm not the one on a soapbox preaching about being a certain way and then being a twofaced hipocrite and slamming two other people.


I never said I was perfect, either.


All I'm trying to say is stfu already, otherwise i'll give you a your mom that i been saving up for crazycoffey...that will put you over the edge and most likely get me banned..thats why i been waiting

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Redrum_69 that is really really weak.


Again with the judging.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 02:53 PM
Im being two faced because I called someone stupid and said I didnt like that guys song.Wow.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 02:54 PM
Redrum_69 again with the judging, how is that judging I said that is weak meaning it is a weak statement. Dont tell me about the spec in my eye when there is a plank in yours.

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 03:00 PM
Dont tell me about the spec in my eye when there is a plank in yours.


dont tell me about the plank in mine otherwise we'll talk about the whole lumber yard between your moms legs

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 03:02 PM
Im being two faced because I called someone stupid and said I didnt like that guys song.Wow.



no, you are being two faced for being nice and saying your a Christian...then in other posts you are contradicting yourself


youre flawed just like everyone else

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 03:03 PM
And you were just making a statement about me being a bad person. You just told me I was a hypocrite and two faced because I called someone stupid and then you are back to you STUPID mom jokes. You are definetely not someone to chastize other people at all.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 03:06 PM
redrum_69, Oh so since I am a Christian I cant disagree with anyone or call somebody stupid ok..........Well am i allowed to take a crap or is that to bad for a Christian to do? Yeah I am flawed I am being told Im not a good Christian by someone who doesnt have a clue what that means or for that matter what he is even talking about.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 03:08 PM
I have to go to Church where I am the game director for a Childs Youth Ministry on Wednesday nights, we try to get the kids on a good Godly path, so they dont end up being like you when they are adults. Oh I am being a hypocrite again.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 03:10 PM
I guess if you are a Christian you cant disagree with anyones opinion or call anybody stupid, for those of you who didnt know that you should take notes. Or you could buy the book redrum_69 explains Christianity. I will be on later tonight redrum to see what other ridiculous statement you can come up with.

Adept Havelock
02-21-2007, 03:14 PM
:LOL: ROFL ROFL

How will we know Jesus has returned? In this day and age, I assume he will hire a PR firm and do a press conference.



The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.

********************************************************************
One man's religion is another man's belly laugh.

********************************************************************

Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything... just give him time to rationalize it.

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 03:15 PM
redrum_69, Oh so since I am a Christian I cant disagree with anyone or call somebody stupid ok..........Well am i allowed to take a crap or is that to bad for a Christian to do? Yeah I am flawed I am being told Im not a good Christian by someone who doesnt have a clue what that means or for that matter what he is even talking about.


yadda yadda yadda

quick change of subject...touchy are we.

Let me draw it out for you.


YOu begin by chosing to judge everyone:

We (that is us who have accepted Jesus into our hearts) will know who Jesus is because he will come in a twinkling of an eye and take us back with him to heaven. The rest of you will be Left Behind just like the movie. After Jesus takes us home there will be an anti-christ that comes and unites the world under one religion. This guy they are talking about is nothing more than a joke and he is not the anti-christ or anywhere near it. Stupid Mexican.


Then you follow it up with this gem..you hipocrite bastard:

InChiefsHell, the left behind series is bad theology as is the rapture itself". You do not have a clue what you are talking about Left Behind theology is very close, and as for the rapture it will happen just like it says in the bible. Stewie "werent you suppose to catch a ride behind a comet a few years back", I do not have a clue what you are talking about.


Then: at this point you judge someones song...

Mr. Cooter, I think that song sucks.

followed by stooping to judge and call names:

CoMoChief, you are stupid.


Then...to top that off:

Listen you guys dont really get it. From a Christian perspective he will come back for one reason and that is to bring us back with him to heaven. He isnt gonna be living down here or anything he is gonna come back to get us, so nobody will think anything about him because he will take us back in the twinkling of an eye. Iowanian, that isnt very funny.


So then you get all bent out of shape because I call you a rat bastard, born from a trailer park methwhore...who comes on to an internet chat board...ABOUT THE CHIEFS...preaching about shit THAT NO ONE HAS A CLUE WHAT WILL REALLY HAPPEN....and forcing your opinions and ideas on all of us...who would rather swap stories about how many homeless men your mom banged in the alley while it took you to come up with your posts.

So then I call you two face..because thats what you are

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 03:19 PM
I have to go to Church where I am the game director for a Childs Youth Ministry on Wednesday nights, we try to get the kids on a good Godly path, so they dont end up being like you when they are adults. Oh I am being a hypocrite again.



hey, I know, lets post some bullshit on an internet chat board, cuz i like to see my own words..and share what I do.


I call bullshit on your statement above

Redrum_69
02-21-2007, 03:21 PM
I guess if you are a Christian you cant disagree with anyones opinion or call anybody stupid, for those of you who didnt know that you should take notes. Or you could buy the book redrum_69 explains Christianity. I will be on later tonight redrum to see what other ridiculous statement you can come up with.


Then you'll get home from church tonight and surf porn for a few hours while reading bible verses

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 03:27 PM
Yeah I dont get on porn. Thats for people like you who are 35 and have no life. But I do read my bible everyday and I will have read the bible through by the end of this year.Its a reading schedule that tells you how much you have to read to get through it in a year. You should think about investing in a bible it might help your agressiveness.

HemiEd
02-21-2007, 04:02 PM
nice thread. Oh, and most of the Jim Jones people did not commit suicide, they were murdered by the bastard.

stevieray
02-21-2007, 04:11 PM
Every knee will bend, and every head will bow.

Delano
02-21-2007, 05:07 PM
hey, I know, lets post some bullshit on an internet chat board, cuz i like to see my own words..and share what I do.

That's you in a nutshell dude.

Sully
02-21-2007, 07:20 PM
I like to picture Jesus in a Tuxedo T-shirt, cause it says, like, I wanna be formal, but I'm here to party, too. Cause I like to party, so I like my Jesus to party.

El Jefe
02-21-2007, 07:41 PM
Delano, "That's you in a nutshell dude", that was the best joke of the night.

Jenson71
02-21-2007, 07:54 PM
:LOL: ROFL ROFL

How will we know Jesus has returned? In this day and age, I assume he will hire a PR firm and do a press conference.

I doubt that and I think anyone who studies his life would doubt that as well. He would probably live very similar to the way Mother Theresa lived her own life.

Redrum_69
02-22-2007, 07:13 AM
Yeah I dont get on porn. Thats for people like you who are 35 and have no life. But I do read my bible everyday and I will have read the bible through by the end of this year.Its a reading schedule that tells you how much you have to read to get through it in a year. You should think about investing in a bible it might help your agressiveness.


Oh he of little faith

I've read my bible

I was raised Christian

I was baptized into Catholicism, after taking over a year of Catechuman classes in Lawrence, I was baptized on Easter vigil. I know how the Christian mind works, having been raised strong in Christianity, attending church and youth group all through grade school, high school, and even some in college. But my wife wanted a traditional Phillipine/Catholic wedding, so I made sure she received her wish. At the start I did the baptism for her...then as I was attending each class it intrigued me so much that I knew it was something I was doing for me.

I've read the bible twice, once in the view of a Christian, the other as the perspective of a Catholic. I respect both religions, any religion for that matter...Just as long as they dont push their beliefs on to me.

I have no tolerance for atheists.

Redrum_69
02-22-2007, 07:14 AM
That's you in a nutshell dude.


Nah, if I liked to see what I wrote all the time, I'd be breaking 40 or 50k posts..or be a post whore like crazycoffey

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 09:22 AM
redrum_69, you just lost all your credibility to battle me in theology. Its oh YE of little faith, and Jesus only says that like 100 times in the bible. I dont care if you were raised a Christian obviously you dont remember enough to quote stuff correctly. You dont have a clue how a real Christian mind works in fact you dont even know how your mind works.

Redrum_69
02-22-2007, 09:43 AM
redrum_69, you just lost all your credibility to battle me in theology. Its oh YE of little faith, and Jesus only says that like 100 times in the bible. I dont care if you were raised a Christian obviously you dont remember enough to quote stuff correctly. You dont have a clue how a real Christian mind works in fact you dont even know how your mind works.


Why the constant need for arguing. Just accept the fact already that youre going to hell for all the sins you committed. I misquote so you can have something to talk about at church camp

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 10:27 AM
Yeah you misquoted me because you are talking out your butt about stuff you dont have a clue about. I am done arguing with you, you are already a lost cause. Im not going to Hell you are the one going to hell my friend, oh and you can send me a post card and tell me how the fishing is in the lake of fire.

Redrum_69
02-22-2007, 10:39 AM
Yeah you misquoted me because you are talking out your butt about stuff you dont have a clue about. I am done arguing with you, you are already a lost cause. Im not going to Hell you are the one going to hell my friend, oh and you can send me a post card and tell me how the fishing is in the lake of fire.


I'll be there alright, banging your mom on a stalagmite. She'll be screaming out satanic verses as I'm fishing at the Lake of fire.


Hell is a great place, I'm surprised youve never been. I dont remember a lake there, unless you consider the ocean a lake. It was more of a tourist attraction...but what can you expect at the Cayman Islands.

Redrum_69
02-22-2007, 10:42 AM
Yeah you misquoted me because you are talking out your butt about stuff you dont have a clue about. I am done arguing with you, you are already a lost cause. Im not going to Hell you are the one going to hell my friend, oh and you can send me a post card and tell me how the fishing is in the lake of fire.


LOL...nice profile...19 years old love the Chiefs and the Ohio State Buckeyes. I live in OHIO. Taking criminal justice to be a cop.
Occupation working at my Dads transmission shop

training to be a cop..19 years old....think you know everything about everything. I'd stick to working in your dads tranny shop.

Sully
02-22-2007, 10:47 AM
redrum_69, you just lost all your credibility to battle me in theology. Its oh YE of little faith, and Jesus only says that like 100 times in the bible. I dont care if you were raised a Christian obviously you dont remember enough to quote stuff correctly. You dont have a clue how a real Christian mind works in fact you dont even know how your mind works.


Wow...

You are REALLY bad at the Christianity thing.
If you're gonna stick with it, keep trying, but as of now, you suck as a follower of Jesus.

Just thought I'd let you know.

CoMoChief
02-22-2007, 10:56 AM
Amazing how he wants to come on here and preach, like we all give a shit and then become offended when some of us dry sense of humor people make a crack at him. If he doesn't like it he should leave. Oh yeah, did I mention this is a football board, not a bible forum?

JohnnyV13
02-22-2007, 11:14 AM
We'd know Jesus if he returned. He'd be the guy shooting lightning at fundamentalists for screwing up his word.

Jenson71
02-22-2007, 11:59 AM
We'd know Jesus if he returned. He'd be the guy shooting lightning at fundamentalists for screwing up his word.

:D

JohnnyV13
02-22-2007, 12:30 PM
You know...the fundamentalists who master the bible so they can use their skill as a club to prove their earthly superiority to others are the ones i'm talking about. But, somehow, I think this description might apply to the majority of fundies, but it could also be that I notice these types more than the others because they annoy the "f" out of me. This behavior is often seen with people who can't succeed at anything in life, so they grasp onto christianity because of the "blessed be the poor" doctrine so that their earthly failure is then transformed into a symbol of success.

Typically, such people will read the bible like a modern statute book. Which, btw, would be rather comical if such people didn't use their "chapter and verse" knowledge as an earthly club against others to establish their supposed superiority. They, of course, blissfully forget (or are simply too stupid to realize) that the writers of the bible did not intend their work to be so interpreted, because they had a different concept of "truth" than we do today.

We use historical "fact reporting" because paper and printing (and more recently, virtual cyberspace) are rather cheap. The advantage of this methodology is it does not require any complex understanding on part of the listener. THe disadvantage is the modern way can be unweildy and lengthy, but is less prone to interpretation errors.

In biblical times, writing books was hugely expensive in labor and materials (parchment is the skin of a sheep. Sheep graze on grasses and anyone who knows about "trophic levels" in ecology will understand that 90 percent of an ecosystem's productive energy potential is LOST as you move up a trophic level. The important point is, if you eat things like cows and sheep and chicken ect, instead of eating grain you're losing about 90% of that land's ability to produce food.) By using a sheep to produce a book you are getting ZERO food value. This cost doesn't even consider the labor that goes into writing a book out by hand. When writing is thus so expensive, it becomes cost effective to maximize the communication density as much as possible. Consequently, the bible uses enormous quantities of symbolism and depends on skilled readers to understand what is meant.

(To show how effective this method is, remember that the bible not only was a religious tome for the jews, it also was their legal code that was applied in their courts every day. Walk into a library and compare the size of the Old Testament to the United States Federal Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, the statutory codes for all 50 states AND the case reporters for both federal and state law. While jewish society was not nearly as complex as our society today, the effiecency gap is still pretty impressive).

In jewish society, they relied upon rabbi's as these "skilled readers" to interpret the word for situations that came up in the local community.

Yet, the modern reader, conditioned to modern "fact reporting" will apply something akin to the word splitting seen in modern statutory interpretation. This error would be very funny if they didn't try to seize political and social power based upon their analysis.

To show how this sort of error worked, rather than recite the statistics of the 1990 game in which Derrick Thomas set the NFL sack record, a bibilical writer might say "Mighty Derrick destroyed the Seattle quarterback". Two thousand years from now, an NFL fan would believe that in ancient times, the NFL involved mortal attacks upon players.

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 12:43 PM
redrum_69, I never said I know everything you are the one quoteing scripture you dont know. Sully, what in the world are you talking about anyway? CoMoChief, I dont care if this is a football forum I am not the one who started this thread if you dont want me to preach then dont start talking about the bible because if you talk about the bible or Christianity I will post my thoughts. Then how many threads have I started on anything to do with my religion, I am posting in your guys threads.

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 12:56 PM
JohnnyV13, is the point of that long essay to call me a fundamentalist. I have not thrown out scripture or said I am better than anyone or said that everybody is gonna go to hell. I have simply been debating with redrum_69 and everybody else has joined in. I dont need to quote massive amounts of scripture to impress people I let my actions speak for me. And when have I once said in these exact words that I am better than anybody on this site, because I havent once said that and I will never say that.

JohnnyV13
02-22-2007, 01:12 PM
JohnnyV13, is the point of that long essay to call me a fundamentalist. I have not thrown out scripture or said I am better than anyone or said that everybody is gonna go to hell. I have simply been debating with redrum_69 and everybody else has joined in. I dont need to quote massive amounts of scripture to impress people I let my actions speak for me. And when have I once said in these exact words that I am better than anybody on this site, because I havent once said that and I will never say that.


Actually, I couldn't care less what you are. I do, however, find the "statutory" approach to breaking down biblical verses rather amusing. Its sort of like someone who reads the Onion and thinks its a real news report.

InChiefsHell
02-22-2007, 01:34 PM
Actually, I couldn't care less what you are. I do, however, find the "statutory" approach to breaking down biblical verses rather amusing. Its sort of like someone who reads the Onion and thinks its a real news report.

Amen brutha. It's the difference between literal and literalist interpretation.

For Example "It's raining cat's and dogs"

Literal interpretation: It's really raining hard.
Literalist interpretation: THere are actually cats and dogs falling out of the sky.

Fundies tend to be literalist.

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 02:05 PM
When did I use a statuatory approach to breaking down bible verses?

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 02:09 PM
Anyway I just want this thread to be done cause it is getting dumb. I said my bit you guys said yours so take mine with a grain of salt if you want.

Guru
02-22-2007, 02:55 PM
redrum_69, you just lost all your credibility to battle me in theology. Its oh YE of little faith, and Jesus only says that like 100 times in the bible. I dont care if you were raised a Christian obviously you dont remember enough to quote stuff correctly. You dont have a clue how a real Christian mind works in fact you dont even know how your mind works.

Wherda mama joke at?

Sully
02-22-2007, 02:57 PM
Anyway I just want this thread to be done cause it is getting dumb. I said my bit you guys said yours so take mine with a grain of salt if you want.


Done!??!
Was it done when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Ultra Peanut
02-22-2007, 03:08 PM
Jesus is here. His name is Ovie Mughelli.

Adept Havelock
02-22-2007, 03:12 PM
kcchiefsfanGoLJ < Believer

Pitt Gorilla
02-22-2007, 03:18 PM
Im not going to Hell you are the one going to hell my friendNathan Thurm?

El Jefe
02-22-2007, 03:40 PM
Who is Nathan Thurm?

Adept Havelock
02-22-2007, 03:44 PM
Nathan Thurm?

ROFL

More like a 19 year old Nehemiah Scudder.

JohnnyV13
02-22-2007, 08:41 PM
When did I use a statuatory approach to breaking down bible verses?

You utilize this approach whenever you cite a chapter and verse and say (in effect) "see!, that's the rule!"

You are then reading the bible like a statute book, and the underlying presumption is the chapter and verse can be broken down with precision to give an exact rule. When used this way, you are looking at the bible as a big book of rules...almost exactly like the way you read a statutory code today.

This kind of approach works this way:

Someone cites the "eye of the needle" passage that refers to a rich man's chances at getting to heaven. They premise that, "gosh, i better not get rich or i'll go to hell!"

THen you look through the bible for verses that speak about wealth and come up with things like the rich man that asks Jesus what does he have to do to achieve paradise and Jesus replies, "give up all you have and follow me".

You come up with more quotations and try to figure out what the bible says about wealth, then try to figure out a regime of rules that makes all these statements make sense.

What never comes into the discussion are things like "Hmmm, Jesus had wealthy followers" (such as Joseph of Arimathea who donated the tomb in which Jesus was buried). Jesus would be rather hypocritical to have wealthy followers and receive benefits from them if they by possessing wealth they had an "eye of the needle" chance to get to heaven.


Bottom line: you see lots of people throwing around chapter and verses to support their meanings, but you see little discussion of context.

C-Mac
02-22-2007, 09:10 PM
Is hell still taught in todays churches....like its a real place?

plbrdude
02-22-2007, 09:42 PM
this thread was hard to follow starting at page 9 going back to page 1. some of it made little sense. some of it made no sense. though i was relieved to find no evidence of "backward masking" in the making of this thread.

C-Mac
02-22-2007, 09:51 PM
this thread was hard to follow starting at page 9 going back to page 1. some of it made little sense. some of it made no sense. though i was relieved to find no evidence of "backward masking" in the making of this thread.

If you thought it was hard to follow from page 9 to page 1, trying going from page 1 to page 9......it makes even less sense and has tons of "forward" masking.

InChiefsHell
02-23-2007, 06:19 AM
Is hell still taught in todays churches....like its a real place?

It is in mine...:shrug:

JohnnyV13
02-23-2007, 01:47 PM
Hell is a real place.

Its located between Roseanne Barr's legs.

El Jefe
02-23-2007, 01:59 PM
JohnnyV13, oh no look someone remebers some stuff from Sunday School. By the way I never cited any scripture, I do agree people throw that stuff around and have no idea what the true context of the verses mean. I havent once made the scripture say what I wanted it to say, I have never taken scripture outta text so I dont know why you keep refering to that point. JohnnyV13 you have made some points I agree with about people having varing opinions on the meaning of verses, but I have not said anything or quoted anything. So your whole long essay is essential garabage to me, unless you are making it for others to read.

greg63
02-23-2007, 02:05 PM
kcchiefsfanGoLJ?

I think your username is entirely too short. :p

Well at least it's more imaginable then greg63. :thumb:

El Jefe
02-23-2007, 02:08 PM
Yeah I know I have a lot of different sites I am on and I have used that the most so I can remember it easier. Although I only go on two sites, this one and Ohio Game and Fish. The rest I just sign up and never use LOL.

Pitt Gorilla
02-23-2007, 02:12 PM
Who is Nathan Thurm?
http://snl.jt.org/arc/char/MaSh-Nathan%20Thurm.jpg

El Jefe
02-23-2007, 02:13 PM
Pitt Gorilla, I still dont have a clue, is he off a movie or something?

Jenson71
02-23-2007, 02:16 PM
Pitt Gorilla, I still dont have a clue, is he off a movie or something?

A movie? I never said that! YOU SAID THAT! You think I DIDN'T KNOW THAT?!?!?


(martin short character off SNL)

Redrum_69
02-23-2007, 02:21 PM
Dont you have a tranny to be working on...or are we to interpet that your dad is a tranny and you post here because your mom is whoring out on the street corner and you cant handle the fact that you are just 19 years old, and a born again Christian.

El Jefe
02-23-2007, 02:48 PM
Jenson71, oh ok.

Jenson71
02-23-2007, 02:52 PM
Jenson71, oh ok.

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