PDA

View Full Version : Is James Cameron the anti-christ?


Guru
02-26-2007, 11:40 PM
As per Glen Beck.

http://time-blog.com/middle_east/2007/02/jesus_tales_from_the_crypt.html

February 23, 2007 6:55
Jesus: Tales from the Crypt
Posted by Tim McGirk | Comments (2884) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This

Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.
--Tim McGirk/Jerusalem

Count Alex's Losses
02-26-2007, 11:41 PM
James Cameron is a badass.

Guru
02-26-2007, 11:42 PM
James Cameron is a badass.
I knew you would be the first responder to this thread.

StcChief
02-26-2007, 11:42 PM
If he's not from Eastern Europe he's not the Anti-christ.

Read the Bible.

88TG88
02-26-2007, 11:42 PM
Is James Cameron the anti-christ?
Sounds reasonable

Guru
02-26-2007, 11:43 PM
If he's not from Eastern Europe he's not the Anti-christ.

Read the Bible.

I am aware of that. But it got your attention.

Rausch
02-26-2007, 11:43 PM
No.

He's a rich azzhole with a football head...

StcChief
02-26-2007, 11:47 PM
I am aware of that. But it got your attention.

I noticed "how" they conveniently left off......
the Bible reference to where the Anti-Christ comes from...
But it's the media. we wouldn't want to upset any PC person. who has another belief.

Guru
02-26-2007, 11:50 PM
I noticed "how" they conveniently left off......
the Bible reference to where the Anti-Christ comes from...
But it's the media. we wouldn't want to upset any PC person. who has another belief.
It's Lent. Time to attack Christians. If this were about any other religion the media would be talking about how unfair this is.

Archie F. Swin
02-26-2007, 11:54 PM
I dont think someone of Scottish descent would be the Anti-Christ

Guru
02-26-2007, 11:55 PM
I dont think someone of Scottish descent would be the Anti-Christ
it was a joke from Beck. For crying out loud don't take it so literally.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 12:00 AM
it was a joke from Beck. For crying out loud don't take it so literally.

two turntables and a microphone Beck, or A.D.D. and a microphone Beck?

Count Alex's Losses
02-27-2007, 12:03 AM
You guys are showing your age.

StcChief
02-27-2007, 12:06 AM
You guys are showing your age.

Just a bunch of sensitive old Fs.....

Get real. Glenn Beck has a way of stirring the pot.....

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 12:07 AM
You guys are showing your age.

there are worse things I could show

Guru
02-27-2007, 12:07 AM
Just a bunch of sensitive old Fs.....

Get real. Glenn Beck has a way of stirring the pot.....
Exactly.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 12:13 AM
I don't understand why people post threads and then ridicule people whom bother to respond

Guru
02-27-2007, 12:15 AM
I don't understand why people post threads and then ridicule people whom bother to respond
How am I ridiculing anybody. I posted an article. I have no problem with anyones views on the subject. Just respect my view too.

greg63
02-27-2007, 12:16 AM
I saw that on TV at work, and then ignored it.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 12:18 AM
Just respect my view too.

Whats your view?

greg63
02-27-2007, 12:18 AM
How am I ridiculing anybody. I posted an article. I have no problem with anyones views on the subject. Just respect my view too.

Respect??? You forget where your at.


But, I agree.

greg63
02-27-2007, 12:19 AM
Whats your view? It's Lent. Time to attack Christians. If this were about any other religion the media would be talking about how unfair this is.
I believe he has stated it well.

Guru
02-27-2007, 12:20 AM
Whats your view?
I have faith in what the bible says. That Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected.

Why is that so wrong to believe in?

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 12:21 AM
Oh, well it is definitely substantiated if they have DNA proof....

After all, Jesus left scads of his DNA in several wooden test tubes in his secret laboratory.

Some people want to disprove the faith based core of Christianity so badly that they are willing to buy any ridiculous notion.

Tell me, whose DNA was tested and against what template?

greg63
02-27-2007, 12:22 AM
Oh, well it is definitely substantiated if they have DNA proof....

After all, Jesus left scads of his DNA in several wooden test tubes in his secret laboratory.

Some people want to disprove the faith based core of Christianity so badly that they are willing to buy any ridiculous notion.

Tell me, whose DNA was tested and against what template?

Excellent question.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 12:23 AM
I dunno, I don't understand why you're being so defensive. I really haven't lashed out at anyone or questioned their views.

My original post was an undoubtedly failed attempt at humor. A miserably failed attempt.

greg63
02-27-2007, 12:23 AM
I have faith in what the bible says. That Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected.

Why is that so wrong to believe in?

Ditto!


It's wrong because of the reasons KC stated.

Rausch
02-27-2007, 12:27 AM
Amazing you people haven't discovered this on your own yet.

And if you did, shame on you for not posting it.

http://www.philhendrieshow.com/Radio/Video.aspx

Guru
02-27-2007, 12:29 AM
I dunno, I don't understand why you're being so defensive. I really haven't lashed out at anyone or questioned their views.

My original post was an undoubtedly failed attempt at humor. A miserably failed attempt.

Well, when you posted about the "tread-starter" and then stated that I ridiculed people, I got a little defensive. Considering I ridiculed no one.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 12:30 AM
alright

nighty-night

Guru
02-27-2007, 12:30 AM
Amazing you people haven't discovered this on your own yet.

And if you did, shame on you for not posting it.

http://www.philhendrieshow.com/Radio/Video.aspx
Never heard of him. Who is he and what does he have to say. Are his weblogs safe for work?

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 12:41 AM
Excellent question.
They will have some schmuck claim to be an offshoot decendant of Jesus and his DNA will be about 70% similar to the body found - I am betting that will be their "proof".

Also note that "coffins" weren't used for the poor in the Middle East during the time of Christ. Ossuaries were used for the affluent Jews. Their bones were allowed to decompose and their remains were put in small stone boxes, only about 1 foot by 2 foot. The ossuary was then put in a tomb. Christ's family could have never afforded such a luxury. The only one who MAY have been entombed in an ossuary years after his death was Jesus' brother James, who died several years after Christ. - if it was James, then it was afforded only by the charity of the stonecarver or the person who owned the tomb.

An ossuary was found several years ago inscribed "James, brother of Jesus and son of Joseph". The ossuary was the only one of the Joseph and Mary family ever substantiated. It was done in 2002. However, there is a great deal of controversy around that discovery today. The man who owns the ossuary today is Oded Golan, a disreputable collector who has a history of archealogical forgeries surrounding his past.

The interesting paradox with the story is, if you truly want to believe that the ossuary belongs to a family member of Jesus, you have to admit that Jesus is a definitive past living member of the human race.

Cameron has done nothing but attached his name as a producer to a couple of bad documentaries and the horrid failure Solaris over the last decade - he is merely doing what he can to make a buck.

greg63
02-27-2007, 12:49 AM
They will have some schmuck claim to be an offshoot decendant of Jesus and his DNA will be about 70% similar to the body found - I am betting that will be their "proof".

Also note that "coffins" weren't used for the poor in the Middle East during the time of Christ. Ossuaries were used for the affluent Jews. Their bones were allowed to decompose and their remains were put in small stone boxes, only about 1 foot by 2 foot. The ossuary was then put in a tomb. Christ's family could have never afforded such a luxury. The only one who MAY have been entombed in an ossuary years after his death was Jesus' brother James, who died several years after Christ. - if it was James, then it was afforded only by the charity of the stonecarver or the person who owned the tomb.

An ossuary was found several years ago inscribed "James, brother of Jesus and son of Joseph". The ossuary was the only one of the Joseph and Mary family ever substantiated. It was done in 2002. However, there is a great deal of controversy around that discovery today. The man who owns the ossuary today is Oded Golan, a disreputable collector who has a history of archealogical forgeries surrounding his past.

The interesting paradox with the story is, if you truly want to believe that the ossuary belongs to a family member of Jesus, you have to admit that Jesus is a definitive past living member of the human race.

Cameron has done nothing but attached his name as a producer to a couple of bad documentaries and the horrid failure Solaris over the last decade - he is merely doing what he can to make a buck.

Yeah, I heard on the news that one of the main aspects he is basing these wild assumptions on is the fact that the tomb had the names Jesus, Mary and Joseph in it; nothing common about those names in that part of the world in that time. :rolleyes:

FAX
02-27-2007, 01:06 AM
A piece of wheat toast came to life yesterday, grew to gigantic proportions, walked right into my office, and told me that Mr. CosmicPal is a reincarnated witch hunter from the 1600s.

It took me hours to clean up all the crumbs.

FAX

Halfcan
02-27-2007, 01:36 AM
Actually, he would be the 3rd Anti Christ behind Napolean and Hitler.

Halfcan
02-27-2007, 01:40 AM
Why doesn't Cameron go after an easier target to dispute-like the Mormons-lol

It worked for SouthPark.

Pants
02-27-2007, 02:45 AM
He's not debunking a religion. He's debunking a fairy tale that's considered a fact by a lot of people. Of course it's bound to piss them off. Shit, I was pissed when I found out the Santa wasn't real too.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 02:55 AM
James Cameron is a badass.

george lucas would be the antichrist of movies since he killed Starwars and E.T and now has his sights on indiana jones.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 02:58 AM
He's not debunking a religion. He's debunking a fairy tale that's considered a fact by a lot of people. Of course it's bound to piss them off. Shit, I was pissed when I found out the Santa wasn't real too.

Does it piss you off so much that ppl believe in god.

Guru
02-27-2007, 03:03 AM
He's not debunking a religion. He's debunking a fairy tale that's considered a fact by a lot of people. Of course it's bound to piss them off. Shit, I was pissed when I found out the Santa wasn't real too.
Everyone needs to believe what they want. Does it really serve a purpose to call someones religion a fairy tale though?

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 03:10 AM
Everyone needs to believe what they want. Does it really serve a purpose to call someones religion a fairy tale though?

agree 100%

+++REP

Believe_Me
02-27-2007, 03:16 AM
Does it piss you off so much that ppl believe in god.

Yes it does, here!

I tried to warn them but they are heathens and banned me?

Go Figure...

But a ban will not keep the Lords word down, or me either..........

Pants
02-27-2007, 03:25 AM
Does it piss you off so much that ppl believe in god.

I believe in a greater power/god/whatever you want to call it, but I am not religious. You see, I never needed the concept of religion to understand what is morally wrong and right. And anyway, 99% of the religious people are hypocrites (1% being the truly devoted monks who just pray all day and live the simplest life possible in some monastery).

But yeah, religious people do piss me off, they ruin the world for everyone, always have and always will.

And I'm sorry, but I like I said, I don't believe in fairy tales - a category into which resurrection falls. And I don't mean to offend you, it's just what I believe.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 03:30 AM
I believe in a greater power/god/whatever you want to call it, but I am not religious. You see, I never needed the concept of religion to understand what is morally wrong and right. And anyway, 99% of the religious people are hypocrites (1% being the truly devoted monks who just pray all day and live the simplest life possible in some monastery).

But yeah, religious people do piss me off, they ruin the world for everyone, always have and always will.

And I'm sorry, but I like I said, I don't believe in fairy tales - a category into which resurrection falls. And I don't mean to offend you, it's just what I believe.

I dont see why you Care what ppl do with there own personal shit.

So when Dieing ppl Find religion you automatically think of them has hypocrites?

Believe_Me
02-27-2007, 03:33 AM
See above post you sinner!

Pants
02-27-2007, 03:33 AM
I dont see why you Care what ppl do with there own personal shit.

So when Dieing ppl Find religion you automatically think of them has hypocrites?

I don't care that much really. I'd equate it to being pissed at stupid people for being stupid. Know what I mean? Stupid people ruin the world for everyone, kind of like the religious people.

Guru
02-27-2007, 03:37 AM
I don't care that much really. I'd equate it to being pissed at stupid people for being stupid. Know what I mean? Stupid people ruin the world for everyone, kind of like the religious people.

I guess we should all apologize for our beliefs to you because what we feel privately ruins your world publicly.

Sorry for that.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 03:39 AM
I don't care that much really. I'd equate it to being pissed at stupid people for being stupid. Know what I mean? Stupid people ruin the world for everyone, kind of like the religious people.

I dont see how me going to church every wednesday is runing the world.

Pants
02-27-2007, 03:41 AM
I guess we should all apologize for our beliefs to you because what we feel privately ruins your world publicly.

Sorry for that.

Are you saying that religion has never and currently does not affect the socio-econmic affairs of the world (not even talking about the stupid ass wars and conflicts throughout the history of the world based on religious beliefs)? I'm not talking about Christianity here, I'm talking about RELIGION.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 03:42 AM
Global warming Famain and disease watch out here comes religion.

Pants
02-27-2007, 03:44 AM
I dont see how me going to church every wednesday is runing the world.

That's because you're a simpleton who lives in his own little world completely oblivious to anything and taking everything for granted. But that's just my guess.

Ignorance is bliss, I know.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 03:45 AM
Are you saying that religion has never and currently does not affect the socio-econmic affairs of the world (not even talking about the stupid ass wars and conflicts throughout the history of the world based on religious beliefs)? I'm not talking about Christianity here, I'm talking about RELIGION.

People would just find something else to wage war about raceism power greed Jealousy.

Guru
02-27-2007, 03:45 AM
Are you saying that religion has never and currently does not affect the socio-econmic affairs of the world (not even talking about the stupid ass wars and conflicts throughout the history of the world based on religious beliefs)? I'm not talking about Christianity here, I'm talking about RELIGION.
I won't argue that 99% of all wars have religion at the core. But, because I have a religious belief does not make me a war monger either. A good percentage of that 99% don't want war. Unfortunately, we hear from the ones that do want war.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 03:48 AM
That's because you're a simpleton who lives in his own little world completely oblivious to anything and taking everything for granted. But that's just my guess.

Ignorance is bliss, I know.

So my Associate degree high school diploma and 116IQ are all null and void becuase I go to church?

Pants
02-27-2007, 03:59 AM
I won't argue that 99% of all wars have religion at the core. But, because I have a religious belief does not make me a war monger either. A good percentage of that 99% don't want war. Unfortunately, we hear from the ones that do want war.

I didn't say you were a warmonger, and "wars" was just a part of my argument.

But let me ask you something, WTF is the point of religion anyway when the same people who go to church also lie, steal, envy, rape little boys and girls, are corrupt, have premarital sex, wage wars in the name of god (apparently killing is OK if the victim is of a different religion), etc?

It's just there to give people an illusion of some kind of purpose and to make death a little less scary. Then the people become so devoted to that fake purpose that they start changing the society to fit their own ideas, which aren't all that great really for the most part.

Don't get me wrong, the people who wrote the Bible were very smart. It became a great tool for stupid people to learn great lessons about society and how you should act in order for that society to function, the magic shit was put in there to instill fear in them so they would follow the rules when no one was watching.

But guess what, it's been done before the bible was ever written. The day some half monkeys/half dudes started living together, they signed a contract that said "Don't kill me and I won't kill you, don't steal from me and I won't steal from you, don't **** my girl and I won't **** yours... you get the point."

And yeah... I think my tirade is over for tonight, I gotta go to bed.

Pants
02-27-2007, 04:03 AM
So my Associate degree high school diploma and 116IQ are all null and void becuase I go to church?

WTF did you garduate from, Uncle Johnny's school of spelling? They way you talk/type you sound like a total retard. At least put a little effort into it when you're trying to say that you're smart.

Guru
02-27-2007, 04:06 AM
I didn't say you were a warmonger, and "wars" was just a part of my argument.

But let me ask you something, WTF is the point of religion anyway when the same people who go to church also lie, steal, envy, rape little boys and girls, are corrupt, have premarital sex, wage wars in the name of god (apparently killing is OK if the victim is of a different religion), etc?

It's just there to give people an illusion of some kind of purpose and to make death a little less scary. Then the people become so devoted to that fake purpose that they start changing the society to fit their own ideas, which aren't all that great really for the most part.

Don't get me wrong, the people who wrote the Bible were very smart. It became a great tool for stupid people to learn great lessons about society and how you should act in order for that society to function, the magic shit was put in there to instill fear in them so they would follow the rules when no one was watching.

But guess what, it's been done before the bible was ever written. The day some half monkeys/half dudes started living together, they signed a contract that said "Don't kill me and I won't kill you, don't steal from me and I won't steal from you, don't **** my girl and I won't **** yours... you get the point."

And yeah... I think my tirade is over for tonight, I gotta go to bed.

I am sorry you feel that way.

oaklandhater
02-27-2007, 04:09 AM
WTF did you garduate from, Uncle Johnny's school of spelling? They way you talk/type you sound like a total retard. At least put a little effort into it when you're trying to say that you're smart.

From a Votech school and I wasnt saying I was smart I was just saying Im not a simpleton that works at walmart.

Pants
02-27-2007, 04:13 AM
from a Votech school and I wasnt saying I was smart I was just saying Im not a simpleton that works at walmart.

Hey man, I'm just talking shit on the intrawebs, don't take my personal insults serioulsy, it's not like I know you or anything, lol. You're probably an OK guy and there's absolutely no reason for you to justify yourself to me. Good night.

chagrin
02-27-2007, 06:30 AM
I don't know, I haven't seen the show but I saw a snip of him on the pulpit, bravely stating that he has difinitive proof - I think there's a diff between definitive proof and definitive belief, yes?

Still, this doesn't upset me at all, if he found bones that somehow could in fact be PROVEN to be the bones of Jesus, good for him.

chagrin
02-27-2007, 06:36 AM
Then the people become so devoted to that fake purpose that they start changing the society to fit their own ideas, which aren't all that great really for the most part.

Just a quick thought here:


How is this different (making it a bad thing in your opinion) than you or anybody else wanting to make the world a specific way to fit your ideas?

stevieray
02-27-2007, 07:25 AM
choose wisely...

Anyone else notice how God and Jesus topics have been on the rise in the media the last few years?

Ultra Peanut
02-27-2007, 07:41 AM
Everyone needs to believe what they want. Does it really serve a purpose to call someones religion a fairy tale though?He's well within his rights to believe it's a fairy tale!

chagrin
02-27-2007, 08:29 AM
He's well within his rights to believe it's a fairy tale!


This is true

kc rush
02-27-2007, 08:41 AM
To the question Is James Cameron the anti-christ?, I was going to say that I sat through Titanic and the answer is a definitive yes. Now after reading through this thread, Im going to get the popcorn.

kepp
02-27-2007, 09:03 AM
To the question Is James Cameron the anti-christ?, I was going to say that I sat through Titanic and the answer is a definitive yes. Now after reading through this thread, Im going to get the popcorn.
Ah...the plot thickens...

Now I believe Cameron is going to attempt to trace Leo DiCaprio's lineage back to Jesus so he can try to make the jump from being the "king of the world!" to the "king of kings."

Jenson71
02-27-2007, 09:08 AM
Ah...the plot thickens...

Now I believe Cameron is going to attempt to trace Leo DiCaprio's lineage back to Jesus so he can try to make the jump from being the "king of the world!" to the "king of kings."

I wonder how Tom Cruise would take that news.

boogblaster
02-27-2007, 09:26 AM
My dog dug up some old bones..there was a cloth covering them,it said Jesus Gonzalas..could it be???

tyton75
02-27-2007, 09:48 AM
Regardless of whether he was actually resurrected or not.. I believe that he was an actual living person and that what he was able to do in his lifetime was amazing.

And the tenets that he espoused are great guidelines to live by... so what does it really matter if he was simply a mortal man or not in the grand scheme of things

That is where the "Leap of Faith" comes into play

Brock
02-27-2007, 09:59 AM
Regardless of whether he was actually resurrected or not.. I believe that he was an actual living person and that what he was able to do in his lifetime was amazing.

Which was what, exactly?

Cochise
02-27-2007, 09:59 AM
What would a family tomb of his be in Jerusalem for? You family was buried where you came from in that culture, so if he did have a family tomb that contained his father's remains, it would have been in Galilee.

tyton75
02-27-2007, 10:01 AM
Which was what, exactly?

Well.. was there Christianity before Christ?

Brock
02-27-2007, 10:04 AM
Well.. was there Christianity before Christ?

Wasn't that the job of those who survived? I mean, they all could have just said "the hell with it" and went home.

Cochise
02-27-2007, 10:08 AM
It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.

Another thing I thought of, the names Jesua (to put it in modern spelling, Joshua), Joseph, Mary, Matthew, etc.... those names were as common back then as they are now.

kepp
02-27-2007, 10:11 AM
Wasn't that the job of those who survived? I mean, they all could have just said "the hell with it" and went home.
They did go home at first, actually (though they probably didn't word their decision to do so like that). It was when they saw Jesus alive that they returned to their ministry. To me, this may be one of the strongest arguments for the resurrection.

Bowser
02-27-2007, 10:13 AM
What would a family tomb of his be in Jerusalem for? You family was buried where you came from in that culture, so if he did have a family tomb that contained his father's remains, it would have been in Galilee.

Not if Mary Magdalene bitched and bitched at him because she saw some really nice plots in Jerusalem, and would really like to be placed to rest there. Finally he told her he would agree to it as long as she would shut the hell up about it.

greg63
02-27-2007, 10:22 AM
I believe in a greater power/god/whatever you want to call it, but I am not religious. You see, I never needed the concept of religion to understand what is morally wrong and right. And anyway, 99% of the religious people are hypocrites (1% being the truly devoted monks who just pray all day and live the simplest life possible in some monastery).

But yeah, religious people do piss me off, they ruin the world for everyone, always have and always will.

And I'm sorry, but I like I said, I don't believe in fairy tales - a category into which resurrection falls. And I don't mean to offend you, it's just what I believe.You're right, religious people do tend to be hypocrites; true Christians are not religious. True Christianity is a life style; not a religion.

Redrum_69
02-27-2007, 10:24 AM
I thought to be the anti-Christ that said person was supposed to survive after being killed to amaze everyone...

Ebolapox
02-27-2007, 10:36 AM
Everyone needs to believe what they want. Does it really serve a purpose to call someones religion a fairy tale though?

Someone's religion? How about everyone's religion.

Let's face facts here. One can not prove a single speck of fact from any single set of 'religious' beliefs. They are what they are, beliefs that require faith (a blind leap into a chasm which we can't see where we'll land) to even believe in them in the first place.

All religion, regardless of amount of gods worshipped, where it's practiced, what sect, etc. (I'm not singling out ANY religion: christianity, islam, shinto, buddhism, tao, et al) is basically the same. They contain certain archetypes (the flood myth appears in many cultures from around the world [*note: the bible's flood myth isn't the first flood myth, and contains many of the same concepts/archetypes of other flood myths, but I digress*], as does the creation myth [*once again, christianity's isn't the first, and certainly not unique*], the dying and resurrected deity myth [*yep, jesus wasn't the first: inanna, ishtar, tammuz, dumuzi, dionysus, mithras, zoroaster, krishna, and a LOT of other deities--too many to list here-- predated jesus, and his 'dying/resurrection' myth contain, you guessed it, elements of all of these myths*], and many other of the same archetypal stories, morals and ethics to live by within a society, etc. The kicker is that mythoi, in almost every instance, shows evidence of spreading from culture to culture, maturing in the process, and in the filtration from different cultures, we get the various myths in cultures that never met, could never have met, etc. As a matter of fact, one of the more interesting bits about religion and the spreading from culture to culture is that one's cultures gods/goddesses become the demons/devils/bad places of the next 'religion,' or set of myths. The catholic church was particularly good at this: the halo (sol invectus) went from sacred symbol of the undying sun to the 'headband' of saints. The horns of Satan are from numerous fertility gods. The devil's pitchfork? that belonged to poseiden. The cloven hooves? Nope, not the devil's exclusively, but from greek mythology: pan! The witch hat? belonged to wise cronos. But I won't bore you with the countless other examples.

I keep telling myself that I'm going to stop posting on religion, because it's one of a select few unwinnable debates, and ends up pissing everybody off... but here comes the meat of the issue:

The main issue I have with religion in general (although christianity seems to have more of an issue with this than other religions, but they all have this weakness to a certain extent) is that the more vocal members of the different religions (let's use christians in this discussion) are so narrowminded that they can't or won't admit that there's any possibility on planet earth that they may be wrong. They've so painted themselves into the proverbial corner that to admit wrongness might very well destroy them. They have faith, but in this instance faith isn't a good thing.

The problem with faith (which is normally a good thing) is that when one has faith, it tends to absolutely sew one's mind shut against the possibility of being wrong. With faith, one very rarely (if ever) will even acknowledge a situation where one might be wrong, as it collapses the house of cards.

At its very base, religion (every religion) was founded on principles and ideas that are unprovable. If one attempts to disprove a tightly held religious belief (godforbid jesus was married!), one would bring a firestorm of scrutiny on one's self because people simply don't like to consider the fact that what they believe is nothing more than an elaborate fairy tale, and will fight to the death to believe what they want to believe.

When one has faith (I'm sure there are exceptions), one basically shuts one's mind off of the possibility of being wrong. Obviously, my main issue with that is that we, as human beings, are wrong all the time--hell, it's practically what we're best at. Mankind started religion (long before christianity, judaeism, or even recorded history) to explain the unexplainable--Where we truly erred is when we began to refuse to believe that we might be wrong.

We tied the whole of humanity to religion and religious practices in general (not singling out christianity), and that restricts the potential that we have as human beings. We have the potential for so much more. I despise it when we paint ourselves into the tiny restrictive boxes of organized religion.

To finish, I'll be the first to admit that I may be wrong about this-- If there is a god (which I certainly won't rule out, but the world we live in certainly reeks of unfairness and injustice, two tools that I believe a just and righteous god wouldn't allow--that is a debate for another time and place), I'll stand judgement for my disbelief. If one has to go by all the pageantry of modern religion to stand any chance at heaven, that the only shot at a good eternity is to dance like a little monkey, then I'll gladly accept hell. If there is a god, he gave me the brain to be a rationally thinking human being. With religion, we're basically forced to shut off our brains and just accept what we're told--SO WHY GIVE US COMPLEX THINKING BRAINS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

alright, enough of that novel... 'submit reply'

Redrum_69
02-27-2007, 10:37 AM
Good God....how about summarizing that for those whose eyes bleed after a paragraph

greg63
02-27-2007, 10:41 AM
Good God....how about summarizing that for those whose eyes bleed after a paragraph

LMAO

Ebolapox
02-27-2007, 10:43 AM
Good God....how about summarizing that for those whose eyes bleed after a paragraph

long story short, religion is as old as mankind... religion was formed to explain the unexplainable

mankind erred when he begain basing his life on the make-believe, aka religion

when one bases one's life on the unproveable, aka religion, one tends to narrow one's mind to not accept anything other than what one believes

so when something comes along to even possibly disprove what one believes, one is so blind with faith that one misses the boat, and in the process doesn't live up to one's human potential, wasting away as a mindless drone

there, that good enough?

Cochise
02-27-2007, 10:44 AM
Good God....how about summarizing that for those whose eyes bleed after a paragraph

ROFL No kidding... not one person will read all that.

RJ
02-27-2007, 10:49 AM
ROFL No kidding... not one person will read all that.



I did.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 10:52 AM
Glenn Beck is a Mormon...Mormon's really don't give Jesus he reverence that Christians do. In fact, Mormon's feel that that level of "holiness" can be achieved by man.

Glenn Beck is a watered-down, more charming version of Limbaugh with a better sense of humor. After a week, it gets old. He's a pretty shallow conservative, that loves to remind us that that his daughter has cerebral palsy or something like that.

Pants
02-27-2007, 07:59 PM
ROFL No kidding... not one person will read all that.

I did, and I 100% agree. But I tend to agree with logic.

Deberg_1990
02-27-2007, 08:54 PM
IM pretty biased....James Cameron is pretty much the best filmaker alive....

So No....

Sully
02-27-2007, 10:37 PM
I wonder why this would piss people off so much.

I don't know how much "proof" Cameron has, but even if it were 100% that this definitely was Jesus' remains, how does that change his message, his actions and his ideas? I don't get it. So he wasn't resurrected... his message still remains the same.

Archie F. Swin
02-27-2007, 10:46 PM
I wonder why this would piss people off so much.

I don't know how much "proof" Cameron has, but even if it were 100% that this definitely was Jesus' remains, how does that change his message, his actions and his ideas? I don't get it. So he wasn't resurrected... his message still remains the same.

Well the difference would be Jesus being a fine Humanitarian and being the risen Son of God...which is one of the more important parts of Christianity. Otherwise Christians would be far more similar to Buddhists.

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 11:05 PM
I believe in a greater power/god/whatever you want to call it, but I am not religious. You see, I never needed the concept of religion to understand what is morally wrong and right. And anyway, 99% of the religious people are hypocrites (1% being the truly devoted monks who just pray all day and live the simplest life possible in some monastery).

But yeah, religious people do piss me off, they ruin the world for everyone, always have and always will.

And I'm sorry, but I like I said, I don't believe in fairy tales - a category into which resurrection falls. And I don't mean to offend you, it's just what I believe.
100% of people are hypocrites - including you. The fact that you feel compelled to deride others while you state "it's just what I believe" proves just that. With a statement like that you had no intent on attempting to sway anyone's opinion, merely to humiliate them if they disagreed with you - kind of like the religions you are complaining about.

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 11:07 PM
Are you saying that religion has never and currently does not affect the socio-econmic affairs of the world (not even talking about the stupid ass wars and conflicts throughout the history of the world based on religious beliefs)? I'm not talking about Christianity here, I'm talking about RELIGION.
Yup - Just like government, including the socialistic regimes you dream about.

However, on the other hand, religion has also fostered more charity, arts, exploration, and businesses than any other socio-economic group I can think of.

Pants
02-27-2007, 11:09 PM
100% of people are hypocrites - including you. The fact that you feel compelled to deride others while you state "it's just what I believe" proves just that. With a statement like that you had no intent on attempting to sway anyone's opinion, merely to humiliate them if they disagreed with you - kind of like the religions you are complaining about.

I was using it to show how ridiculously stupid it is as it's impossible to argue against it. You know, I was trying to let the religious people taste their own medicine.

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 11:10 PM
What would a family tomb of his be in Jerusalem for? You family was buried where you came from in that culture, so if he did have a family tomb that contained his father's remains, it would have been in Galilee.
Yup

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 11:17 PM
long story short, religion is as old as mankind... religion was formed to explain the unexplainable

mankind erred when he begain basing his life on the make-believe, aka religion

when one bases one's life on the unproveable, aka religion, one tends to narrow one's mind to not accept anything other than what one believes

so when something comes along to even possibly disprove what one believes, one is so blind with faith that one misses the boat, and in the process doesn't live up to one's human potential, wasting away as a mindless drone

there, that good enough?
Your assumption is in error (IMO) due to the second statement. You have no proof, but merely your own tenet to base the statement that mankind invented religion.

Regardless of what anyone wants to believe, the simple fact is that there is some power somewhere that simply breaks all the base rules of all sciences. You don't believe in a god, fine. Then you assume that either time is not accurately measured (as there has to be a beginning somewhere according to mainstream science), that physics are based upon flawed logic (as matter can be created not simply changed - else where did matter come from), and/or that the law of probability is simply wrong to the infinite power (not only did this cell create life from non-life, but it managed to replicate hundreds of quintillion times in just the right and precarious balance to have trillions of life forms attempting to destroy one another while co-existing without simple destruction). After all, according to science all matter tends toward a resting state. I find all of the above "beliefs" to be just as silly as your idea that mankind created religion to explain the unexplainable.

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 11:19 PM
I was using it to show how ridiculously stupid it is as it's impossible to argue against it. You know, I was trying to let the religious people taste their own medicine.
You were attempting to ridicule others while calling them hypocrites for ridiculing others.

You can use the old excuse "they started it first", but you were being a hypocrite.

Pants
02-27-2007, 11:21 PM
Yup - Just like government, including the socialistic regimes you dream about. What? lol

However, on the other hand, religion has also fostered more charity, arts, exploration, and businesses than any other socio-economic group I can think of.

I wouldn't agree with any of that statement, even though I know why you think that. Let's see exploration - missionaries would be sent in to clean up only after the places were already discovered (as far as Christianity is concerned). I'm sure some expeditions were commissioned by the church in it's power hay day, but certainly it wasn't the majority if you take the whole history of the mankind.

Charity? Maybe recently and it's always on very small scale, but again, if you look at the whole picture, religion has brought more suffering than anything else.

Arts? I can see that.

Business? You have to be more specific.

Pants
02-27-2007, 11:24 PM
You were attempting to ridicule others while calling them hypocrites for ridiculing others.

You can use the old excuse "they started it first", but you were being a hypocrite.

Jesus, you're retarded. I was using it on purpose to show that it wasn't a good way to argue. Because if I say "It's just my belief" about something, there's no way you can refute that. Later in the thread you can see me saying that I didn't mean what I said because I don't know the guy.

KCWolfman
02-27-2007, 11:35 PM
What? lol



I wouldn't agree with any of that statement, even though I know why you think that. Let's see exploration - missionaries would be sent in to clean up only after the places were already discovered (as far as Christianity is concerned). I'm sure some expeditions were commissioned by the church in it's power hay day, but certainly it wasn't the majority if you take the whole history of the mankind.

Charity? Maybe recently and it's always on very small scale, but again, if you look at the whole picture, religion has brought more suffering than anything else.

Arts? I can see that.

Business? You have to be more specific.
Trade routes to the Middle East were established by the Christians. The Jesuits opened China to a free market. South America and the Western United States were settled by the Franciscan Monks long before any other settlements were made. The majority of Occidental explorations occurred due to monarchies - but the only reason the pushes into the unknown survived was due to the base of the missionaries.

Charity on a small scale? Prior the generosity of governments of the middle 20th century, where did a family go when they lost income due to the death of the primary male? Who took care of the sick during ravenous plagues? Who took in orphans? To this day the Catholic missionaries do a helluva lot more in the Sudan, Mexico, and the Phillipines than any government effort of which I am aware.

In fact, I am donating my time this summer to help the people of Neuvo Progresso. We are building 6 houses and completing a purified water station for the rest of the village. I don't do this because I am worried about being judged. I don't do it because I fell I need to balance my good deeds versus bad deeds book. I am doing it because I enjoy the time, and because it will assist me in my bid to go to the Sudan for a year in 2009 to do the same in the Dinkan village of Lounariik if the US government allows us to go.

Our church has raised over 300,000.00 nationwide to bring water purifiers and housing materials to the village.

Yours, and others on this board, natural bent to hate any organized religion simply shows your own prejudices to be as narrow as those you deride.

Pants
02-28-2007, 12:03 AM
I don't do this because I am worried about being judged. I don't do it because I fell I need to balance my good deeds versus bad deeds book. I am doing it because I enjoy the time, and because it will assist me in my bid to go to the Sudan for a year in 2009 to do the same in the Dinkan village of Lounariik if the US government allows us to go.

So religion has nothing to do with that charity. You're a nice person. Or are you saying that had you not been religious, you wouldn't do the same?

Trade routes to the Middle East were established by the Christians. The Jesuits opened China to a free market. South America and the Western United States were settled by the Franciscan Monks long before any other settlements were made. The majority of Occidental explorations occurred due to monarchies - but the only reason the pushes into the unknown survived was due to the base of the missionaries.

So yeah, exploration wasn't carried out by the church. The church did the early settling in order to spread the word of god.

Charity on a small scale? Prior the generosity of governments of the middle 20th century, where did a family go when they lost income due to the death of the primary male? Who took care of the sick during ravenous plagues? Who took in orphans? To this day the Catholic missionaries do a helluva lot more in the Sudan, Mexico, and the Phillipines than any government effort of which I am aware.

You mean like losing the primary male due to a Crusade, Jihad or any religious war/conflict (you know like the one in England, Yugoslavia, India and everywhere else in the world) or some sort of an inquisition? Or being ****ed in the ass by the greedy church in form of land taxes and the indulgences? I'm not saying relgion does no good, I'm saying the negatives outweigh the positives if you take into account that organized religion is full of hypocrites (who feel justified to do anything they ****ing want in the name of god), extremists, was/is/will be full of corruption.

Look, I'm not saying that religion makes you evil, I'm saying that it doesn't stop you from being one and often serves as a very good cover for very bad people. And to add to that, you absolutely don't have to be religious to be a just, moral and overall a good person. And if you're not religious and somehow manage to **** up (bang someone before you marry, lie to parrents, steal something), at least you don't look like a total ****ing hypocrite.

KCWolfman
02-28-2007, 12:15 AM
Look, I'm not saying that religion makes you evil, I'm saying that it doesn't stop you from being one and often serves as a very good cover for very bad people. And to add to that, you absolutely don't have to be religious to be a just, moral and overall a good person. And if you're not religious and somehow manage to **** up (bang someone before you marry, lie to parrents, steal something), at least you don't look like a total ****ing hypocrite.
I deleted the rest of the quote because it is not dead on target with what I started.

You put it all in black and white with your last paragraph. You, and many others who feel an obsessive/compulsive desire to deride organized religion have an overwhelming desire to prove that those who are involved in religion are "hypocrites". The fact is that ALL humans are hypocrites - including you. The old bumper sticker states "I am not perfect, I am forgiven".

Government serves as cover for bad people, school does, hell - jobs do as well.

My point is that every organized group ever created can house evil or bad intent - after all, they are created and run by humans - who have a huge propensity toward evil. But the fact is that more people get good out of religion than bad. If they didn't, the faith based groups would no longer exist.

Guru
02-28-2007, 01:51 AM
To the question Is James Cameron the anti-christ?, I was going to say that I sat through Titanic and the answer is a definitive yes. Now after reading through this thread, Im going to get the popcorn.
Hows that Jiffy Pop tasting?

mcan
02-28-2007, 02:07 AM
I've become an atheist as of late, but I seriously doubt James Cameron has been able to disprove Jesus' divinity.


What weirds me out is that there is a part of me that really HOPES he did though. I'd like to see the fallout. I'd love to see if all the Christians in the world would suddenly become Isreali, or if they would adjust the Christian religion to compensate for the "bad news."

In my perfect world, we would stop basing our actions on what we think the Supernatural world wants us to do. I don't believe in the supernatural, and frankly it would be a breath of fresh air to see the world start making a rational and concerted effort to improve upon our NATURAL world.

kc rush
02-28-2007, 10:40 AM
Hows that Jiffy Pop tasting?

Better all the time. :)

Nightwish
02-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Does it piss you off so much that ppl believe in god.
Debunking Jesus, if it happens, is not debunking God. One can very easily believe in God without believing in Jesus. Millions already do.

Nightwish
02-28-2007, 06:15 PM
Oh, well it is definitely substantiated if they have DNA proof....

After all, Jesus left scads of his DNA in several wooden test tubes in his secret laboratory.

Some people want to disprove the faith based core of Christianity so badly that they are willing to buy any ridiculous notion.

Tell me, whose DNA was tested and against what template?
DNA samples from the Shroud of Turin have been stored for quite some time now, waiting for something to test them against. Of course, even this presents a conundrum for Christians - if the samples from the remains match the samples from the Shroud, then one is forced to accept one of two very uncomfortable things: (1) the Shroud was Christ's, and his bones are in the ossuary, meaning he didn't resurrect; or (2) they've been wrong all along about the Shroud belonging to Christ, and the resurrection story is preserved, but the Shroud is lost as an important "proof" of the resurrection and existence of Jesus. Then there will be that subset who will resort to the old, "The Devil put those bones there" argument.

On the other hand, if the Shroud and the bones don't match, everybody can just return to their normal programming.

Question, though, especially for the Christians on here - if it is proven conclusively that the remains in that ossuary are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, how will it affect your spirituality and beliefs?

Nightwish
02-28-2007, 06:22 PM
What weirds me out is that there is a part of me that really HOPES he did though. I'd like to see the fallout. I'd love to see if all the Christians in the world would suddenly become Isreali, or if they would adjust the Christian religion to compensate for the "bad news."
Very likely, all of the above, and more. If it should come to pass that Jesus' resurrection and divinity are disproven, you'll see a lot of things happening, including:


Some remaining Christian, refusing to believe the disproof
Some rejecting Christianity altogether, moving to any number of other faiths
Some committing suicide
Some committing murder (James Cameron and anyone else associated with the discovery would be a walking dead man)
Some abandoning their moral codes, having lost what they believe is their moral compass

Pants
02-28-2007, 06:22 PM
Question, though, especially for the Christians on here - if it is proven conclusively that the remains in that ossuary are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, how will it affect your spirituality and beliefs?

It won't do jack shit. Bible > Science/Logic.

Sully
02-28-2007, 06:23 PM
Question, though, especially for the Christians on here - if it is proven conclusively that the remains in that ossuary are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, how will it affect your spirituality and beliefs?

Personally (and this is just personally as I have a differing view on my Christianity than MANY do) it wouldn't affect it much. I base my beliefs on Jesus' teaching and his actions. The deity aspect is a part of the story, but not the whole of the story, in my heart. Even if it does turn out to be true, that doesn't make him any less the son of God, any less the revolutionary he was/is, and any less the basis of my beliefs.

Marco Polo
02-28-2007, 06:55 PM
His movie Aquaman was badass!

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2007, 07:30 PM
Question, though, especially for the Christians on here - if it is proven conclusively that the remains in that ossuary are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, how will it affect your spirituality and beliefs?

There's no way it can be proven conclusively. The hardcore christians will always have some escape clause.

KCWolfman
02-28-2007, 10:26 PM
DNA samples from the Shroud of Turin have been stored for quite some time now, waiting for something to test them against. Of course, even this presents a conundrum for Christians - if the samples from the remains match the samples from the Shroud, then one is forced to accept one of two very uncomfortable things: (1) the Shroud was Christ's, and his bones are in the ossuary, meaning he didn't resurrect; or (2) they've been wrong all along about the Shroud belonging to Christ, and the resurrection story is preserved, but the Shroud is lost as an important "proof" of the resurrection and existence of Jesus. Then there will be that subset who will resort to the old, "The Devil put those bones there" argument.

On the other hand, if the Shroud and the bones don't match, everybody can just return to their normal programming.

Question, though, especially for the Christians on here - if it is proven conclusively that the remains in that ossuary are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, how will it affect your spirituality and beliefs?

IN 1973 the shroud was proven to have vermillion ink, not blood in it by Walter McCrone - thus no DNA is available.

I believe the shroud was completely debunked in 1988, according to carbon dating anyway. All three independent labs that investigated the shroud dated it around the 1300s.

Which would create yet another scientific paradox. If you believe the DNA matches and is proof of Christ, then you must accept that cardon dating is seriously flawed and should not be taken as serious scientific fact as it is currently used.

If Cameron's theories are based upon the shroud, he has already laid a foundation of sand for his castle of "proof".

Next

L.A. Chieffan
02-28-2007, 10:48 PM
We're talking about people that believe dinosaurs and humans lived on Earth at the same time in history.
James Cameron making a dipshit documentary is NOT going to shake the faith in these people.

KCWolfman
02-28-2007, 10:54 PM
We're talking about people that believe dinosaurs and humans lived on Earth at the same time in history.
James Cameron making a dipshit documentary is NOT going to shake the faith in these people.
You are assuming that only literalists are Christians.

Your statement is as erroneous as if I said that any idiot who pays to watch a first run movie stupidly believes the Hollywood precept of how life is supposed to be: If we all just focus on how we look to others then the world will be a better place.


There are a great many Christians, including Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Louis Pasteur, Werner Heisenberg, Marie Curie, and Linus Pauling who have no trouble understanding that Christianity (or in Einstein's case, Judaism) is not literally driven and actually works hand in hand with science.

Guru
02-28-2007, 11:01 PM
DNA samples from the Shroud of Turin have been stored for quite some time now, waiting for something to test them against. Of course, even this presents a conundrum for Christians - if the samples from the remains match the samples from the Shroud, then one is forced to accept one of two very uncomfortable things: (1) the Shroud was Christ's, and his bones are in the ossuary, meaning he didn't resurrect; or (2) they've been wrong all along about the Shroud belonging to Christ, and the resurrection story is preserved, but the Shroud is lost as an important "proof" of the resurrection and existence of Jesus. Then there will be that subset who will resort to the old, "The Devil put those bones there" argument.

On the other hand, if the Shroud and the bones don't match, everybody can just return to their normal programming.

Question, though, especially for the Christians on here - if it is proven conclusively that the remains in that ossuary are the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, how will it affect your spirituality and beliefs?
It won't affect my faith in the least.

ChiefsLV
02-28-2007, 11:24 PM
We're talking about people that believe dinosaurs and humans lived on Earth at the same time in history.
James Cameron making a dipshit documentary is NOT going to shake the faith in these people.

Yeah my dad told me that he believes the devil mixed lizards with other animals to create dinosaurs and that they walked the earth with humans.

He also believes that all carbon dating is flawed, fossils were planted by the devil, vestigial organs test our faith and asserts that Hitler was greatly influenced by Darwin, therefore Darwin is evil.

People are going to believe what they want to believe. I'm not going to change it, nor do I really care to.

L.A. Chieffan
02-28-2007, 11:53 PM
You are assuming that only literalists are Christians.

Your statement is as erroneous as if I said that any idiot who pays to watch a first run movie stupidly believes the Hollywood precept of how life is supposed to be: If we all just focus on how we look to others then the world will be a better place.


There are a great many Christians, including Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Louis Pasteur, Werner Heisenberg, Marie Curie, and Linus Pauling who have no trouble understanding that Christianity (or in Einstein's case, Judaism) is not literally driven and actually works hand in hand with science.
I am Catholic. I do not believe Dinosaurs and man walked the Earth at the same time. Therefore I am as smart as Einstein and Newton.

No just kidding, but seriously what I was trying to say is there are divisions of Christianity that claim to take the bible as literal word of God. Therefore anything disproving that belief is automatically considered a lie and must be evil.
I was watching a documentry on evangelical christians not too long ago that showed preachers in front of large groups of children explaining to them the people and dinosaurs INDEED did exsist together. This is dangerous and irresponsible no matter how you look at it.

greg63
03-01-2007, 12:04 AM
It won't affect my faith in the least.

Ditto! :thumb:

KILLER_CLOWN
03-01-2007, 12:12 AM
As far as i'm concerned man is flawed, so any great Discoveries need to be combed over so thoroughly before they become FACT. Take for instance our historic calendar that misses about 500 years of history due to the "Dark Age of Greece" , truth is that 500 years doesn't exist but we continue to teach that it does and we in fact do not have anything(zero) from that time period. yeah i would have to say that mankind is prone to mistakes, so just because Hitler is popular and says something doesn't necessarily mean it's fact. ;)

irishjayhawk
03-01-2007, 12:22 AM
I don't see what the big deal is if like 95% of humanity (I made that figure up, but it should be close) believes in a supernatural being, believes morals MUST come from religion, impedes science on many fronts, wages war on each other throughout history including today, and influences decisions of people in government. I can't see how that could be bad.

Isn't God just a Santa Claus for adults? If not, how can you prove Santa doesn't exist and God does?

Oh and for the record, providing "proof" rests on the believers. It is not the job for atheists/agnostics to provide proof that god DOESN'T exist. Nothing else works that way.

Cochise
03-09-2007, 11:33 AM
Is Discovery Burying 'Lost Tomb'?
By James Hibberd
Discovery Channel's controversial James Cameron-produced documentary "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" drew the largest audience for the network in more than a year on Sunday night, but the network has taken several recent steps to downplay the project.
Story continues below...

Departing from normal procedures, the cable network didn't tout its big ratings win. The network also scheduled a last-minute special that harshly criticized its own documentary, and has yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb."

"This is not one where you necessarily beat the drum, from a business perspective," said David Leavy, executive VP of corporate communications at Discovery. "It's not necessarily about making money, or making ratings, or shouting from the highest office building. Sometimes having some maturity and perspective is more important than getting picked up in all the ratings highlights."

The documentary, executive produced by Oscar-winning "Titanic" director Mr. Cameron, claims to have found the family tomb of Jesus Christ, unearthed in Jerusalem. The findings include circumstantial evidence suggesting Christ and Mary Magdalene were a couple, and that they had a son named Judah.

Discovery formally announced the special last month and quickly incited a worldwide media frenzy, including stories in Time and Newsweek and links on the Drudge Report. But much of the coverage was highly skeptical of the documentary's findings. Prominent archeologists disputed the program, while Christian groups criticized it for conflicting with the New Testament.

Although Mr. Leavy said the network stands by the documentary "100 percent," the company took several unusual steps in the wake of the controversy that could be seen as distancing itself from the content.

Last week, Discovery abruptly scheduled a panel debate to air after the documentary, moderated by Discovery newsman Ted Koppel. Discovery's announcement of the panel emphasized that Mr. Koppel "has no connection to the production of 'The Lost Tomb of Jesus'" and that "the panel will explore the filmmakers' profound assertions and challenge their assumptions and suggested conclusions."

When the panel discussion aired, guests criticized the documentary as "archaeo-porn" that played fast and loose with the facts.

The day after the March 4 airing, Discovery yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb" from its more hard-news-branded Discovery Times Channel.

When the Nielsen ratings revealed that "Tomb" averaged 4.1 million viewers - Discovery's largest audience since September 2005 - the network declined to put out a press release touting the numbers, as would be standard practice for a highly successful premiere. The second-season premiere of Discovery Channel's "Future Weapons," for instance, earned a media announcement for its audience of 2.5 million. A network representative, however, insisted Discovery was not trying to bury "Tomb."

No press release on the ratings was sent out, Mr. Leavy said, because of the show's subject matter. As for the yanked Discovery Times repeat, Mr. Leavy said that outlet wasn't the best venue to repeat the special.

The last record-setting Discovery Channel project also was about a sensitive subject, the9/11-themed "The Flight That Fought Back," yet Discovery issued a press release about its ratings.

The network still plans to air a previously scheduled "Tomb" repeat on its Spanish network on March 18, as well as an HD version on Discovery HD Theater on March 28.

"We are very proud of the program - we stand by it 100 percent," Mr. Leavy said.

Mr. Leavy said the network should be credited for airing a critical post-show panel.

"We added the Koppel panel once it was clear there was worldwide interest," he said. "Our responsibility is to give viewers all the information and let them decide. There is no way to ever prove this beyond a reasonable doubt."

Moving forward, Mr. Leavy said the network plans to increase its focus on archeology projects. The network recently signed History Channel's "Digging for Truth" host Josh Bernstein to develop new archeology series and specials.

"We are going to be doubling down in this space," he said. "We will soon be back in the news with more archeology."

(Editor: Horowitz)

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2007, 02:44 PM
"The network also scheduled a last-minute special that harshly criticized its own documentary, and has yanked a planned repeat of "Tomb."

Too bad I missed it. Maybe I'll have to catch it DVD. Quite simply for me, the whole "Jesus is God" and "Jesus is a Prophet & Messiah" could have easily been cleared up over 2,000 years ago (and this goes for Mohammed as well).

1. Let everyone know that the Earth is round, not flat.

2. Let everyone know that the Earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around.

3. Hey Jews, pack up your sh*t. We're going to North America!

Until someone can give me a reason why one of those three simple things didn't happen, I'll be extremely skeptical about any religion or anyone claiming to be God.

Adept Havelock
03-09-2007, 04:27 PM
Quite simply for me, the whole "Jesus is God" and "Jesus is a Prophet & Messiah" could have easily been cleared up over 2,000 years ago (and this goes for Mohammed as well).

1. Let everyone know that the Earth is round, not flat.

2. Let everyone know that the Earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around.


Agreed, or how about "Two strands entwined are the secret of life" ;)



James Cameron is not the "anti-christ".

James Cameron is not a fictional character. IMO, the "anti-christ" is.

James Cameron also has less chance of disproving the divinity of any historical figure than I do of wrangling a threesome with Mary Magdalene and Jezebel.