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sedated
03-01-2007, 09:21 PM
Settle an argument.

Who is the best QB ever?

What more important? Stats vs. Rings

Montana
Marino
Manning
Brady
Young
Aikman
Unitas
Starr
Favre
Bradshaw
Namath
Staubach
Theisman
(forgive me, planet) :bang: Elway
Kelly
(for the lambs fan)Warner

Who am I forgetting?





(not posting a poll because I know I'm missing someone)

milkman
03-01-2007, 09:23 PM
Todd Blackledge

Count Zarth
03-01-2007, 09:23 PM
Repost.

Ebolapox
03-01-2007, 09:23 PM
otto graham
sammy baugh
sid luckman


and my vote?



Bill Brasky.

Sam Hall
03-01-2007, 09:24 PM
Joe Montana. It's about the glory, not the stats.

milkman
03-01-2007, 09:27 PM
Joe Montana. It's about the glory, not the stats.

Then what about Otto Grahm?

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Brasky

Sam Hall
03-01-2007, 09:29 PM
Then what about Otto Grahm?

Nobody remembers Otto Graham. The level of competition today is greater than it was in those days.

Manila-Chief
03-01-2007, 09:29 PM
You forgot Namath... others may have better stats but for us AFL fans he beat the mighty Colts and gave us respectability. If I had to pick a QB to win one game not sure I'd choose him but gotta admire Broadway Joe!!!!

Frazod
03-01-2007, 09:29 PM
Montana. The rest of them can eat a dick. :harumph:

BWillie
03-01-2007, 09:31 PM
Brasky

http://www.productsales.com/sjc/sigs/braskey%5B1%5D.jpg

HAHA REP to you.

Manila-Chief
03-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Nobody remembers Otto Graham. The level of competition today is greater than it was in those days.

You don't know what you are talking about. The rules protect the QB today. Those were real men compared to the weaklings who play the position today. Just ask Lenny about it.

milkman
03-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Nobody remembers Otto Graham. The level of competition today is greater than it was in those days.

You're just making abitrary rules.

Sam Hall
03-01-2007, 09:32 PM
Stats are nice, but Tom Brady wouldn't trade his career for Peyton Manning's.

Sam Hall
03-01-2007, 09:33 PM
You don't know what you are talking about. The rules protect the QB today. Those were real men compared to the weaklings who play the position today. Just ask Lenny about it.

Players today are definitely more athletic.

Ebolapox
03-01-2007, 09:34 PM
http://www.productsales.com/sjc/sigs/braskey%5B1%5D.jpg

HAHA REP to you.

I said it first

:sulk:

Extra Point
03-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Aikman for execution
Montana for savvy
Unitas for guts
Dawson for strategy

Manila-Chief
03-01-2007, 09:36 PM
Players today are definitely more athletic.

Tell that to Ben Davidson ... but, you better be on the run when you do.

milkman
03-01-2007, 09:36 PM
I know you didn't honestly expect to settle any arguments, sedated.

jidar
03-01-2007, 09:37 PM
Man I don't know.. Montanna is still the man I suppose, but before it's all done there is a good chance it's Manning.

milkman
03-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Man I don't know.. Montanna is still the man I suppose, but before it's all done there is a good chance it's Manning.

I don't think that you'll ever get a consensus on who the greatest ever is/was, but I know that if I need a QB for one big game, then I want that QB to be Montana.

djrcmay
03-01-2007, 09:45 PM
Vlassic - The pickle man!

BigRock
03-01-2007, 09:59 PM
Terrell Davis called Farve the best QB ever on the NFL Network yesterday (they were talking about the Moss-to-Packers rumors). Then after the discussion, the host was like "Really? Best QB ever? Not Elway?". And TD had to backtrack. LMAO

Count Zarth
03-01-2007, 10:06 PM
I always thought TD was kind of dumb.

Skip Towne
03-01-2007, 10:10 PM
It can't be Montana. He was a third round draft pick. Not even a first day guy.

Guru
03-01-2007, 10:13 PM
Montana

SNR
03-01-2007, 10:18 PM
No love for YA Tittle?

supercoupe91
03-01-2007, 10:19 PM
1.Montana
2.Brady
Doesnt matter afterwards.

Pestilence
03-01-2007, 10:20 PM
Montana......

and I boo you for even putting Brady on that list. Screw that douchebag.

DomerNKC
03-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Joe Montana-QB-Notre Dame-SanFrancisco-KANSAS CITY!!!

Fish
03-01-2007, 10:34 PM
Roger Staubach.... childhood hero...

Halfcan
03-01-2007, 11:13 PM
This was already settled.

Brett Favre- has a ring, 3 MVP's and will have every record by the time he is done. Not to mention the Iron man streak.

End of story.

Marino
Montana
Baugh
Unitas

Florida_Bronco
03-02-2007, 12:41 AM
I'm biased, but IMO the clear choice is Elway. He carried some very poor Broncos teams on his back over the years. 2nd choice would be Marino.

Montana was good, but was surrounded by some of the best players in the game at the time (thanks to no salary cap) and never had to carry a team on his back.

beer bacon
03-02-2007, 12:47 AM
Definitely Jay Cutler. He has a laser, rocket arm, and he always looks stoned.

Guru
03-02-2007, 12:49 AM
Definitely Jay Cutler. He has a laser, rocket arm, and he always looks stoned.
Laser rocket arm? You must have him confused with Mangina.

Valiant
03-02-2007, 01:03 AM
This was already settled.

Brett Favre- has a ring, 3 MVP's and will have every record by the time he is done. Not to mention the Iron man streak.

End of story.

Marino
Montana
Baugh
Unitas


Sorry but I think that will all go to Manning.. Who should hold every record by the time he retires...

Sorry guys.. But I believe Peyton will be the GQBoaT when he retires...

Peyton has the ring and 2 mvp's, plus the Superbowl MVP even though I thought there were others way more deserving of that game...

acesn8s
03-02-2007, 01:19 AM
Laser rocket arm? You must have him confused with Mangina.I thought Manning was 6 foot 6, laser rocket arm....
Damn I need to pay attenion to those ads better.:banghead:

BTW no love for Dawson?

I kinda like Farve or horseface

Fruit Ninja
03-02-2007, 02:49 AM
if it was one game, i would want Elway. **** the rest. Elway in his prime was money. He could throw, he could scramble. He could run. He had it all. He was complete. Montana was a great quarterback, but he also had complete teams. Elway didnt have complete teams til he was already in his mid-late 30's. Early in his career he literally carried the Broncos on his back.


1 game give me Elway.

Smed1065
03-02-2007, 03:02 AM
Many factors figure in to this question.

Tribal Warfare
03-02-2007, 04:24 AM
1)Joe Montana- greatest field general of all-time

2)Elway- The most athletic QB among the greats

3)Marino- Best pure passer of all-time

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 06:17 AM
To say Elgay is more athletic than Favre was/ is crazy. Its not like GreenBays Offense has been loaded all these years.

Steve Young ran circles around Elgay. Peeton and his 2 yard shovel pass better than Favre?? That is laughable-look at all the weapons he has, plus the NFL won't let anyone touch him-its a freakin joke the way his line gets away with murder. Pampered Peeton is not even on my list-he is the product of a system.

pikesome
03-02-2007, 06:56 AM
Montana. The rest of them can eat a dick. :harumph:

I'm not sure my answer could be phrased any better than this.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2007, 06:59 AM
P.Manning
Montana
Elway
Moon

chagrin
03-02-2007, 07:06 AM
I'm biased, but IMO the clear choice is Elway. He carried some very poor Broncos teams on his back over the years. 2nd choice would be Marino.

Montana was good, but was surrounded by some of the best players in the game at the time (thanks to no salary cap) and never had to carry a team on his back.


WHAT?

You are saying that Joe Montana never had to carry his team? You're nuts dude. Remember the Super Bowl against Cincy, the second one? Wow, you've got to put your bias aside - Yes Elway is one of the best ever, but not THE best ever. When people say Joe Montana had the best team because of the salary cap thing is totally bogus, the only Ring they ever paid for was the one Steve Young won against San Diego. Jerry Rice aside, who else on that team was the best at their position during his career by the way? What, Roger Craig? Please dude, you've got to come stronger than that.

chagrin
03-02-2007, 07:09 AM
if it was one game, i would want Elway. **** the rest. Elway in his prime was money. He could throw, he could scramble. He could run. He had it all. He was complete. Montana was a great quarterback, but he also had complete teams.


Again, biased bullshit

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 07:12 AM
WHAT?

You are saying that Joe Montana never had to carry his team? You're nuts dude. Remember the Super Bowl against Cincy, the second one? Wow, you've got to put your bias aside - Yes Elway is one of the best ever, but not THE best ever. When people say Joe Montana had the best team because of the salary cap thing is totally bogus, the only Ring they ever paid for was the one Steve Young won against San Diego. Jerry Rice aside, who else on that team was the best at their position during his career by the way? What, Roger Craig? Please dude, you've got to come stronger than that.

I agree-you forgot to add all the passes Elgay got away with throwing well beyond the line of scrimmage, the Cheatin Donks cheatin the cap during the SB years, and his Oline being greased up on game day.

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 07:20 AM
Elgay was always so overrated-pretty much like Pampered Peeton today.

Now that the NFL has handed him the SB and SB MVP on a silver platter-maybe they will start calling a hold on his line once in awhile and quit letting his receivers push off down field.

Cochise
03-02-2007, 07:21 AM
To me this question is, if you had to pick one of these guys to draft as a rookie as your franchise QB, who would you choose.

I think I would pick Manning. He'll own all the passing records by the time he retires. You can't pin the "can't win a big game" on him anymore. He's only missed one snap in his career. I think the extent to which he calls plays and directs the offense gives him the field general title. You never hear of teammates who dislike him or getting in trouble off the field.

Other guys have more rings, and no disrespect to Montana, he's #2 on my list, but no QB ever played with more talent around him than he did. When the Colts' defense finally sacked up this year, Manning got his ring.

I think I would choose him, because he merges pure ability at the position with longevity, durability, and his ability to act as a sort of coach/offensive coordinator while under center.

Crush
03-02-2007, 08:09 AM
Montana

pikesome
03-02-2007, 08:23 AM
To me this question is, if you had to pick one of these guys to draft as a rookie as your franchise QB, who would you choose.

I think I would pick Manning. He'll own all the passing records by the time he retires. You can't pin the "can't win a big game" on him anymore. He's only missed one snap in his career. I think the extent to which he calls plays and directs the offense gives him the field general title. You never hear of teammates who dislike him or getting in trouble off the field.

Other guys have more rings, and no disrespect to Montana, he's #2 on my list, but no QB ever played with more talent around him than he did. When the Colts' defense finally sacked up this year, Manning got his ring.

I think I would choose him, because he merges pure ability at the position with longevity, durability, and his ability to act as a sort of coach/offensive coordinator while under center.

But you could easily attack Manning's accomplishments by pointing out the way the PI rules have changed, the way his gyrations don't seem to get called, the way QB pressure rules have changed, as well as his receivers aren't chopped liver by any mesure. Manning is real, real good, no doubt about that but I'd still rather have Montana.

sedated
03-02-2007, 09:24 AM
If people look at rings as the measuring stick, why don't more people mention Bradshaw?

despite being a total dumbf*ck, he won as many rings, and had similar hall-o-fame talent around as Montana

chagrin
03-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Other guys have more rings, and no disrespect to Montana, he's #2 on my list, but no QB ever played with more talent around him than he did.


My only argument is that Terry Bradshaw played with more talent around him, IMO. I doubt we will ever see as many Hall of Fame Players from those 49er teams than we do with the Steelers. Actually I should ask the questions since several folks believe this:

Tell me the players on the 49ers that were so speacial other Jerry and Joe: Dwight had a very mediocre career, Roger Craig wasn't hot, and maybe they had 1 CB, plus Ronnie Lott of course, and he wasn't there for the whole ride. Joe won his first Super Bowl with nobody on his team, they fought very hard to win that thing. In the Dallas Championship game, they basically lost, except for "the catch" Dwight made.

Anyway, I just a few reasons I wanted to point out.


You have a good point about Peyton, but his offensive talent also exceeds what Joe had for the first part of his great career, as well.

pikesome
03-02-2007, 09:40 AM
If people look at rings as the measuring stick, why don't more people mention Bradshaw?

despite being a total dumbf*ck, he won as many rings, and had similar hall-o-fame talent around as Montana

Bradshaw seems to be such a jerk-off I'm not sure I could put up with him on my team no matter how good he was. And I still like Montana over him.

Brock
03-02-2007, 09:41 AM
Tell me the players on the 49ers that were so speacial other Jerry and Joe: Dwight had a very mediocre career, Roger Craig wasn't hot, and maybe they had 1 CB, plus Ronnie Lott of course, and he wasn't there for the whole ride. Joe won his first Super Bowl with nobody on his team, they fought very hard to win that thing. In the Dallas Championship game, they basically lost, except for "the catch" Dwight made.

Joe had a badass defense, plus maybe the best and dirtiest offensive line in football. Which shouldn't diminish his accomplishments...

Molitoth
03-02-2007, 11:25 AM
Steve Young holds the title when it comes to stats I think.

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 11:32 AM
I agree-you forgot to add all the passes Elgay got away with throwing well beyond the line of scrimmage, the Cheatin Donks cheatin the cap during the SB years, and his Oline being greased up on game day.

You guys should stop with the cheating thing. It makes you look stupid.

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 11:35 AM
Oh, and the greatest is Elway. Second place is about a mile lower, if you'll forgive the pun. Anyone who can't see this is stupid.

That's unbiased, folks. I would never, ever let homerism influence such an important argument.

pikesome
03-02-2007, 11:40 AM
Oh, and the greatest is Elway. Second place is about a mile lower, if you'll forgive the pun. Anyone who can't see this is stupid.

That's unbiased, folks. I would never, ever let homerism influence such an important argument.
http://flecom.net/funny/crack_pipe.jpg

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 11:45 AM
Elgay was always so overrated-pretty....

That's too funny.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 12:00 PM
There's great debate for about 5 QBs over the history of the NFL to be tagged as the best ever. But, the bottom line is that I feel it's really tough to compare QBs that span 20 years... much harder to compare QBs from the 40's to the 90s.

The nut of it is, take the consensus best 5 ever and there are always 2 names at the top... Elway & Montana, either order.

It's fun bar talk though.

Frazod
03-02-2007, 12:16 PM
The nut of it is, take the consensus best 5 ever and there are always 2 names at the top... Elway & Montana, either order.

It's fun bar talk though.

Yeah, but you forget that one of them was the other one's BITCH.

vailpass
03-02-2007, 12:18 PM
if it was one game, i would want Elway. **** the rest. Elway in his prime was money. He could throw, he could scramble. He could run. He had it all. He was complete. Montana was a great quarterback, but he also had complete teams. Elway didnt have complete teams til he was already in his mid-late 30's. Early in his career he literally carried the Broncos on his back.


1 game give me Elway.

What kcxiv said.

Calcountry
03-02-2007, 12:38 PM
Joe Montana, hands down.

The guy was a winner, he even won with the Chiefs and took them to an AFC Championship game, which is saying a lot given the fact that Marty was his coach.

Bill S Preston
03-02-2007, 12:41 PM
Montana and Unitas for me. I also say that Bradshaw should be up there.

Calcountry
03-02-2007, 12:50 PM
Joe had a badass defense, plus maybe the best and dirtiest offensive line in football. Which shouldn't diminish his accomplishments...Don't forget the Coach. Walsh could gameplan, and gamescript an opening drive that would make the other team look silly.

Lzen
03-02-2007, 01:08 PM
Montana

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:37 PM
Yeah, but you forget that one of them was the other one's BITCH.

Weird, but I think Joe faced the defense of the Broncos in that SB.

Fruit Ninja
03-02-2007, 01:39 PM
Again, biased bullshit
how am i biased? i am a freaking Chiefs fan. lol

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 01:39 PM
Weird, but I think Joe faced the defense of the Broncos in that SB.

Note: The 1989 Broncos had the NFL's TOP RANKED DEFENSE.

Bowser
03-02-2007, 01:40 PM
Shamefully, Elway.

He got those first three Bronco Super Bowl teams there on willpower alone.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:42 PM
Note: The 1989 Broncos had the NFL's TOP RANKED DEFENSE.

Stats are fun. SF had the NFL's top ranked offense in 1989...

Dan Reeves has been a HC in 4 SB's and the opposing QB in each SB has been the MVP for that game.

Enjoy.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 01:43 PM
Shamefully, Elway.

He got those first three Bronco Super Bowl teams there on willpower alone.

Note: The 1986 Broncos had the NFL's 7th-ranked defense.

In fact, four of Elway's five Super Bowl teams were ranked in the top 10 on defense. I GUESS THE ****ING LEGEND IS A LITTLE TARNISHED?

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:45 PM
Note: The 1986 Broncos had the NFL's 7th-ranked defense.

In fact, four of Elway's five Super Bowl teams were ranked in the top 10 on defense. I GUESS THE ****ING LEGEND IS A LITTLE TARNISHED?

Exactly... you've nailed it, dork.

Bowser
03-02-2007, 01:45 PM
Note: The 1986 Broncos had the NFL's 7th-ranked defense.

In fact, four of Elway's five Super Bowl teams were ranked in the top 10 on defense. I GUESS THE ****ING LEGEND IS A LITTLE TARNISHED?

Fair enough.

I have no idea who Elway's supporting cast on offense was, though, outside of Vance Johnson. I know they had three receivers calling themselves the Three Amigos, but other than that, no idea.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 01:47 PM
Fair enough.

I have no idea who Elway's supporting cast on offense was, though, outside of Vance Johnson. I know they had three receivers calling themselves the Three Amigos, but other than that, no idea.

Elway was just a Super Bowl choker, that's all. When Denver's outstanding defenses failed to show up, the Broncos were doomed.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:49 PM
Elway was just a Super Bowl choker, that's all. When Denver's outstanding defenses failed to show up, the Broncos were doomed.

Right. And, you were what... 4 when those games were played?

Anyway, if it were someone other than you, I'd play this game... but, I'm wasting time with you.

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Fair enough.

I have no idea who Elway's supporting cast on offense was, though, outside of Vance Johnson. I know they had three receivers calling themselves the Three Amigos, but other than that, no idea.

Never had an offensive lineman make the Pro Bowl (until the early 90's, when Keith Bishop made it). Never had a WR make the Pro Bowl. Had a season or two where a RB made it, if I remember correctly (Winder in the mid-80's and Humphrey in '90, maybe). Shannon Sharpe came along in the 90's, but otherwise Elway was throwing to the likes of Clarence Kay and Orson Mobley at tight end.

And the thing about their defensive ranking - their offense was built to allow the defense to do that. It was basically Marty-ball, Dan Reeves style. There were a few years where the offense was towards the top of the league, statistically - in spite of a dearth of talent, outside of Elway.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Elway reminds me of Trent Dilfer. He rode a great running game and defense to a Super Bowl. Elway managed to do that once the Broncos got Terrell Davis. Good for him!

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Fair enough.

I have no idea who Elway's supporting cast on offense was, though, outside of Vance Johnson. I know they had three receivers calling themselves the Three Amigos, but other than that, no idea.

Offensively in the late 80s, it was the 3 Amigos and Sammy Winder at RB. It wasn't until Bobby Humphrey in '89 when Elway had a 1,000+ yd rusher in the game with him. Sadly, they ran up against a dominating 49ers squad.

Dan Reeves has proven and it's been well documented by reading player comments from that time that Reeves was horrible at handling the game plan during SB week.

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 01:54 PM
Elway reminds me of Trent Dilfer. He rode a great running game and defense to a Super Bowl. Elway managed to do that once the Broncos got Terrell Davis. Good for him!

That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you post, and that's saying something.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:55 PM
That may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you post, and that's saying something.

Ah c'mon... don't take the bait, he's just posting crap to rile you up.

CoMoChief
03-02-2007, 01:56 PM
Peyton Manning. None of those other QB's had as much responsibility for the offense than him. He will re-write the record books before he retires. I see him winning about 2 more SB's in his career.

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 01:58 PM
Ah c'mon... don't take the bait, he's just posting crap to rile you up.

I just had to point it out. When Bob says something that tops his previous stupidity watermark - well, it's noteworthy.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:59 PM
Peyton Manning. None of those other QB's had as much responsibility for the offense than him. He will re-write the record books before he retires. I see him winning about 2 more SB's in his career.

I dunno, I'd like to see what Manning could do with a stripped down version of that offense. Manning has a wealth of talent around him that few others have ever had. I'm not saying he's only good b/c of that talent, but I'd like to see what he could do with the supporting cast that Elway had in the late 80s or Brady did last year.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 01:59 PM
I just had to point it out. When Bob says something that tops his previous stupidity watermark - well, it's noteworthy.

I dunno, if that's the criteria... you'll be doing this 3 or 4 times a day.

Amnorix
03-02-2007, 02:19 PM
Montana......

and I boo you for even putting Brady on that list. Screw that douchebag.


ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

But Elway doesn't offend you?

Amnorix
03-02-2007, 02:20 PM
This was already settled.

Brett Favre- has a ring, 3 MVP's and will have every record by the time he is done. Not to mention the Iron man streak.

End of story.

Marino
Montana
Baugh
Unitas


That's a joke. Manning has what? 2 MVPs, has at least as many rings as Favre, and will break -- more likely annihilate, every record Favre has ever had or dreamed of having by the time he's done. So end of story it's going to be Manning, I guess?!

Yeah, no. Not Favre and not Manning either.

Amnorix
03-02-2007, 02:23 PM
I dunno, I'd like to see what Manning could do with a stripped down version of that offense. Manning has a wealth of talent around him that few others have ever had. I'm not saying he's only good b/c of that talent, but I'd like to see what he could do with the supporting cast that Elway had in the late 80s or Brady did last year.


Word.

This sort of applies to Joe Montana too, I'm sorry to say.

Frankly, take a VERY good QB and give him a Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and a solid offensive system with coaches who never leave, or a Jerry Rice and the other talent Montana had, and suddenly you've got arguments for the GOAT.

I won't answer the question except to say that I'd take Montana and Brady over anyone else I've ever seen because typically they were VERY clutch, and elevated their games in the playoffs.

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 02:25 PM
John Elway is the grestest QB to play the game..he's got the stats,m the g;lory, and the atletics. He's the total package...and the only man to live up to the hype.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 02:28 PM
Several of the QBs on this list and many will take the guy from the team they love, and that includes me. All I know is that more often than not, Elway made it happen when Denver needed something to win.

Fruit Ninja
03-02-2007, 02:28 PM
John Elway is the grestest QB to play the game..he's got the stats,m the g;lory, and the atletics. He's the total package...and the only man to live up to the hype.
I am going to agree with you on this. lol Elway had, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson and Steve Sewell for his WR's and RB. lol

I cant really comment on Brady and Manning yet. I will wait til their Careers are said and done with.

Bowser
03-02-2007, 02:29 PM
Obviously, none of you dipshits have seen the m4d sk1llz I have playing Madden.

Greatest. QB. Evah.

ceebz
03-02-2007, 02:30 PM
I'm biased, but IMO the clear choice is Elway. He carried some very poor Broncos teams on his back over the years. 2nd choice would be Marino.

Montana was good, but was surrounded by some of the best players in the game at the time (thanks to no salary cap) and never had to carry a team on his back.

God I hate idiot Donkey fans..... Can you name the skill position players on Montana's first Super Bowl team?

boogblaster
03-02-2007, 02:30 PM
Montana........Marino........Davis won the 2 SBs for Elway........

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 02:33 PM
Montana........Marino........Davis won the 2 SBs for Elway........

Elway is the only QB in NFL history to not have a contributing impact to his team winning a SB. See, now this is why I love this site... I would have never known.

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 02:34 PM
Montana........Marino........Davis won the 2 SBs for Elway........

You'd be wrong about that last bit.

I won't argue with poeple that want to throw Montana as the best. He was what you want in a QB. He just didn't have the big arm. Marino was a great QB to....but no rings. Brady is awesome...and Manning is about the best in his era. Jonny U and Otto were awesome as well. You can't leave out Bradshaw either.

Fruit Ninja
03-02-2007, 02:35 PM
Obviously, none of you dipshits have seen the m4d sk1llz I have playing Madden.

Greatest. QB. Evah.
first mistake is you playing that PoS of a game. lol

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 02:37 PM
Obviously, none of you dipshits have seen the m4d sk1llz I have playing Madden.

Greatest. QB. Evah.

We just figured that was a given. We're really talking about the 2nd greatest here, for all intents and purposes.

I just figured that was already on the table.

sedated
03-02-2007, 02:39 PM
I forgot to mention that donks fan cannot participate in this thread

ceebz
03-02-2007, 02:50 PM
I am going to agree with you on this. lol Elway had, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson and Steve Sewell for his WR's and RB. lol

I cant really comment on Brady and Manning yet. I will wait til their Careers are said and done with.

Yet, when Elway won his Super Bowls, John had a HoF TE and according to donk fans; a HoF WR, HoF LT, HoF RB, and HoF C.....

And Donkey fans love to discredit Montana for having talent on his team. :rolleyes:

Elway is overrated when it comes to the 'Top 5' discussions. He did help bring his team to the Super Bowl without much talent on offense but, the entire AFC was ridiculously weak. Look at those Cleveland teams, besides Earnest Byner, (who btw, gave Elway one of his SB appearances,) who else of note did the Browns have on that roster? Bernie Kosar? :rolleyes:

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 02:53 PM
ceebz... it's back to the talent thing.

Rarely does a great QB win a SB with an average supporting cast. It's the team, baby.

Elway got there three times with an average offense and good defense... they didn't win.

Elway got there twice with a great offense and a good defense... they won.

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 02:55 PM
You guys should stop with the cheating thing. It makes you look stupid.

Being a Cheatin Elgay homer makes you look stoopid.

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 02:56 PM
Yet, when Elway won his Super Bowls, John had a HoF TE and according to donk fans; a HoF WR, HoF LT, HoF RB, and HoF C.....

And Donkey fans love to discredit Montana for having talent on his team. :rolleyes:

Elway is overrated when it comes to the 'Top 5' discussions. He did help bring his team to the Super Bowl without much talent on offense but, the entire AFC was ridiculously weak. Look at those Cleveland teams, besides Earnest Byner, (who btw, gave Elway one of his SB appearances,) who else of note did the Browns have on that roster? Bernie Kosar? :rolleyes:

Webster Slaughter, Mark Mosley, Mack, Kosar....these guys were one heck on an offense.

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 02:59 PM
That's a joke. Manning has what? 2 MVPs, has at least as many rings as Favre, and will break -- more likely annihilate, every record Favre has ever had or dreamed of having by the time he's done. So end of story it's going to be Manning, I guess?!

Yeah, no. Not Favre and not Manning either.

Please. you are assumming Manning stays healthy that long. The NFL can't protect him his whole career.

Manning will always be known as a cheater and crybaby.

THAT is the END OF THE STORY. Now good day to you sir!

vailpass
03-02-2007, 03:04 PM
Elway reminds me of Trent Dilfer. He rode a great running game and defense to a Super Bowl. Elway managed to do that once the Broncos got Terrell Davis. Good for him!

Hey everybody LOOK AT ME! I'm posting the most inane shit I can possibly dream up hoping to get a reaction.
HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME!
doucehnozzle

ceebz
03-02-2007, 03:07 PM
Webster Slaughter, Mark Mosley, Mack, Kosar....these guys were one heck on an offense.

Mark Mosley? Did you really just list a kicker?

This must be one of your sarcasm-filled posts.

Amnorix
03-02-2007, 03:11 PM
Please. you are assumming Manning stays healthy that long. The NFL can't protect him his whole career.

Manning will always be known as a cheater and crybaby.

THAT is the END OF THE STORY. Now good day to you sir!

(wait, am I defending Peyton Manning?! WTF?? :spock: )

I agree he's a crybaby. Cheater, perhaps so. I'm not fan of the head weave and alot of other crap that he does.

But he's no more protected than alot of other QBs these days (I see alot of chintzy calls on roughing the passer) and he's got about a hundred starts in a row.

Sure, he could get Thiesmann'ed on opening night, but chances are that Favre's records (except maybe the iron man streak) will all fall to that guy, whether you like it or not.

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 03:11 PM
Elway is the only QB in NFL history to not have a contributing impact to his team winning a SB. See, now this is why I love this site... I would have never known.

And he was never sacked by DT either.

ceebz
03-02-2007, 03:12 PM
Hey everybody LOOK AT ME! I'm posting the most inane shit I can possibly dream up hoping to get a reaction.
HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME!
doucehnozzle


Well, in 97 Elway did have a decent year, however, that completion percentage (55.8) was piss-poor for a west coast offense.

And in 98, Elway was injured much of the time and didn't pass for 3000 yards. So, while Elway did contribute, he obviously wasn't the sole reason for their success like you donk fans would love to believe.

Frazod
03-02-2007, 03:12 PM
John Elway is the grestest QB to play the game..he's got the stats,m the g;lory, and the atletics. He's the total package...and the only man to live up to the hype.

he;s got cooking spray,m he's got the thinair... :whackit:

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 03:14 PM
Marino was twice the passer of Elgay. Elgay was not even the best QB in his time.

Why is nobody talking about the 55 to 10 drubbing of Elgays team to Montana, a better QB in every way???

Frazod
03-02-2007, 03:16 PM
Marino was twice the passer of Elgay. Elgay was not even the best QB in his time.

Why is nobody talking about the 55 to 10 drubbing of Elgays team to Montana, a better QB in every way???

I'll talk about it all f#cking day. God, that was a great game. :thumb:

vailpass
03-02-2007, 03:18 PM
Well, in 97 Elway did have a decent year, however, that completion percentage (55.8) was piss-poor for a west coast offense.

And in 98, Elway was injured much of the time and didn't pass for 3000 yards. So, while Elway did contribute, he obviously wasn't the sole reason for their success like you donk fans would love to believe.

ceebz,
Please tell me you don't think the stats you posted above are in any way indicative of an NFL QBs performance. Stats don't measure all of the intangibles a great QB brings to the field that allow him to will his team to victory.

It's not only the achievements you can measure that make an elite NFL QB, it' just as much the ones you can't. If you can't see this you can't truly know or enjoy the game.

You seem like a good poster and knowledgeable football fan. I hate to see you align yourself with the throat yogur gargler who compares Elway to Dilfer. The most avid Bronco haters among you who know their football (paging Frazod, HemiEd, htis, etc.) will tell you this is utterly wrong bordering on insane.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 03:19 PM
Screw 55-10. How could anyone forget 31-28? Take me Lord, I've seen it all!

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 03:19 PM
Mark Mosley? Did you really just list a kicker?

This must be one of your sarcasm-filled posts.

Without the kick he makes against the Jet's in the divisonal round...the Browns don't even make it to the AFCC game. So yeah...I listed Mark Mosley.

CoMoChief
03-02-2007, 03:20 PM
I dunno, I'd like to see what Manning could do with a stripped down version of that offense. Manning has a wealth of talent around him that few others have ever had. I'm not saying he's only good b/c of that talent, but I'd like to see what he could do with the supporting cast that Elway had in the late 80s or Brady did last year.


I think its more of the fact that since he's a coach on the field, he calls what he sees therefore he makes the players around him better and puts them in positions to make plays. I dont think Reggie Wayne would be as good if he left the Colts. Harrison is Harrison but Young, Montana, Aikman, Marino, Bradshaw, and just about every other player QB on that list has a HoF WR or multiple players around them.

If you are gonna talk about playing with lack of talent around him then I would say Brett Favre.

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 03:21 PM
Marino was twice the passer of Elgay. Elgay was not even the best QB in his time.

Why is nobody talking about the 55 to 10 drubbing of Elgays team to Montana, a better QB in every way???

When Elway left the game...he was the Super Bowl MVP and a Super Bowl champion and he was the winningest QB to ever play the gmae and started 5 Super Bowls.


Marino...was benched in his last game getting drubbed by almost 60 points.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 03:21 PM
Reading this thread is funny...

Ok, time to go read the 97 and 98 SI Championship editions. Wow, it's been almost a decade since that first one... and KC still hasn't won a playoff game.

DomCasual
03-02-2007, 03:21 PM
Screw 55-10. How could anyone forget 31-28? Take me Lord, I've seen it all!

The highlight of your Chiefs memories is a regular season game?

Classic.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 03:24 PM
I think its more of the fact that since he's a coach on the field, he calls what he sees therefore he makes the players around him better and puts them in positions to make plays. I dont think Reggie Wayne would be as good if he left the Colts. Harrison is Harrison but Young, Montana, Aikman, Marino, Bradshaw, and just about every other player QB on that list has a HoF WR or multiple players around them.

If you are gonna talk about playing with lack of talent around him then I would say Brett Favre.

Right... b/c Favre never had talent around him in the mid to late 90s.

Feel free to go see for yourself... that 1996 team was #1 overall on defense (GoChiefs likes that stat) and they were #1 on offense.

htismaqe
03-02-2007, 03:28 PM
This is a Chiefs message board, you're not gonna get an objective answer...

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 03:29 PM
The highlight of your Chiefs memories is a regular season game?

Classic.

We're talking about MONTANA.

Way to take my post out of context.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 03:30 PM
Wow, it's been almost a decade since that first one... and KC still hasn't won a playoff game.

Meanwhile Denver has....one?

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 03:30 PM
This is a Chiefs message board, you're not gonna get an objective answer...

Very true.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 03:31 PM
Meanwhile Denver has....one?

Grab a calculator... I said it's been almost a decade since that first one. Implying there was a second one, which there was...

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 03:32 PM
Grab a calculator... I said it's been almost a decade since that first one. Implying there was a second one, which there was...

Yawn...whatever. Your storied past grows more ancient with every desperate trade Shanahan cooks up. Few more years and you'll be just like us Chiefs fans.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 03:35 PM
Yawn...whatever. Your storied past grows more ancient with every desperate trade Shanahan cooks up. Few more years and you'll be just like us Chiefs fans.

Not really. Some KC fans have kids that were born in 1993 and these kids have grown up and are near the age of getting a hardship license to drive without ever seeing their Chiefs win a playoff game.

Denver won a game in 2005, so I have a lot time before it gets to a level that meets the KC standard.

CoMoChief
03-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Right... b/c Favre never had talent around him in the mid to late 90s.

Feel free to go see for yourself... that 1996 team was #1 overall on defense (GoChiefs likes that stat) and they were #1 on offense.

They were a great team no doubt. But he clearly didnt have the talent around him that the other QB's had.

Dorsey Levens
Mark Chemura (sp?)
Robert Brooks
Antonio Freeman
Reggie White
LeRoy Butler

All of these players thrived under the system, but none of these players were great except for Reggie White who didnt necessarily play with Favre. Brett Favre brought out the best in this team.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 03:42 PM
That offense with those players did really well in that system...

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 03:44 PM
Meanwhile Denver has....one?

We have 8 since the 1997 season.

Bowser
03-02-2007, 03:45 PM
Robert Brooks, the unlucky recpient of getting positively destroyed on a block by Bennie Thompson on an interception return, only to have Thompson simulate pissing on him like a dog would. On Monday Night Football, no less. Heh.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Not really. Some KC fans have kids that were born in 1993 and these kids have grown up and are near the age of getting a hardship license to drive without ever seeing their Chiefs win a playoff game.

Denver won a game in 2005, so I have a lot time before it gets to a level that meets the KC standard.

No one gives a shit about playoff wins unless they result in Super Bowls. Denver and KC are in the same boat since Elway retired...whether you Donkey homers admit it or not.

sedated
03-02-2007, 03:59 PM
Marino...was benched in his last game getting drubbed by almost 60 points.

who cares how a player leaves the game?

Unitas did great in that Chargers uniform

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 04:00 PM
who cares how a player leaves the game?

Unitas did great in that Chargers uniform

How course...however...it's very poetic.

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 04:02 PM
No one gives a shit about playoff wins unless they result in Super Bowls. Denver and KC are in the same boat since Elway retired...whether you Donkey homers admit it or not.

Odd, but yeah.. since Elway retired (after 1998 season) there have been 8 SuperBowls. I'd love to say that Denver got back there and they nearly did in 2005, but using your twisted logic for "this" argument... there are fans of 26 other NFL teams in this boat.

Trust me, I know why you are looking for other things to use aside from playoff wins.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 04:03 PM
Trust me, I know why you are looking for other things to use aside from playoff wins.

You must feels so proud of that one playoff win. That's SO MUCH to hang your hat on. DENVER > KANSAS CITY!!! UNTIL THE END OF TIME!

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 04:05 PM
You must feels so proud of that one playoff win. That's SO MUCH to hang your hat on. DENVER > KANSAS CITY!!! UNTIL THE END OF TIME!

It's more than just the one playoff win, tard. KC has had so many more disappointing regular season outcomes than Denver since 1998. It's more than just that 1 win...

Again, I'm not wasting much time typing to you b/c it's a wasted exercise.

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 04:06 PM
Since 1998 we have 4 playoff wins.

Count Zarth
03-02-2007, 04:07 PM
It's more than just the one playoff win, tard. KC has had so many more disappointing regular season outcomes than Denver since 1998. It's more than just that 1 win...

Again, I'm not wasting much time typing to you b/c it's a wasted exercise.

I feel the same way. Oh well, whatever. Eventually the Chiefs WILL win a Super Bowl, and then you'll have MORE bullshit for us. :rolleyes:

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 04:07 PM
I love how everyone throws it in Marino's face he never got a ring. Everyone of you would kill to have him on your team. He was the best of his generation-he owns every record-and if not for a leg injury-he would have put the records up there where even Brett couldn't touch them.

Halfcan
03-02-2007, 04:09 PM
Since 1998 we have 4 playoff wins.

Wow-do you feel better now??

Mile High Mania
03-02-2007, 04:10 PM
I think Marino was greatness, but he's not in my top 3... he's 4.

Garcia Bronco
03-02-2007, 04:18 PM
I love how everyone throws it in Marino's face he never got a ring. Everyone of you would kill to have him on your team. He was the best of his generation-he owns every record-and if not for a leg injury-he would have put the records up there where even Brett couldn't touch them.
He doesn't own most WINS...which is the bottom line.

Valiant
03-02-2007, 05:30 PM
But you could easily attack Manning's accomplishments by pointing out the way the PI rules have changed, the way his gyrations don't seem to get called, the way QB pressure rules have changed, as well as his receivers aren't chopped liver by any mesure. Manning is real, real good, no doubt about that but I'd still rather have Montana.



Or maybe Peyton is that good and makes the other players play better.. The guy is called the Field Marshall for a reason, his passes are money and the whole laser rocket arm thing... :)

Valiant
03-02-2007, 05:31 PM
There's great debate for about 5 QBs over the history of the NFL to be tagged as the best ever. But, the bottom line is that I feel it's really tough to compare QBs that span 20 years... much harder to compare QBs from the 40's to the 90s.

The nut of it is, take the consensus best 5 ever and there are always 2 names at the top... Elway & Montana, either order.

It's fun bar talk though.


Then there is the stats of Elway before and with Terrel Davis... Look at his TD/INT ratio with TD carrying that team and then before..
Honestly though Elway is a great QB, especially agianst the Chiefs..



Or maybe he is just a system QB from the Denver Oline scheme... :p

Florida_Bronco
03-03-2007, 02:52 AM
Right. And, you were what... 4 when those games were played?

Anyway, if it were someone other than you, I'd play this game... but, I'm wasting time with you.

Fatass wasn't even living in America during that time, nor did he even know what football was then, yet he likes to talk like he knows something about that era.

Remember man, consider the source.

Florida_Bronco
03-03-2007, 02:57 AM
WHAT?

You are saying that Joe Montana never had to carry his team? You're nuts dude. Remember the Super Bowl against Cincy, the second one? Wow, you've got to put your bias aside - Yes Elway is one of the best ever, but not THE best ever. When people say Joe Montana had the best team because of the salary cap thing is totally bogus, the only Ring they ever paid for was the one Steve Young won against San Diego. Jerry Rice aside, who else on that team was the best at their position during his career by the way? What, Roger Craig? Please dude, you've got to come stronger than that.

You got to come alot stronger than that, quoting one game where Montana carried his team, while Elway carried the Broncos for multiple seasons.

Take a look at the 49er's rosters from the Montana years, there wasn't a more talented and complete team in the NFL. Just for kicks, let's assume that you are the GM of the 49er's in their dynasty years, and you have the choice of having John Elway or Joe Montana...who would you pick?


...thought so.

Mile High Mania
03-03-2007, 08:05 AM
Then there is the stats of Elway before and with Terrel Davis... Look at his TD/INT ratio with TD carrying that team and then before..
Honestly though Elway is a great QB, especially agianst the Chiefs..



Or maybe he is just a system QB from the Denver Oline scheme... :p

Well, I point to the coaching change rather than the RB.

Elway's numbers were always good, but they took off after Reeves left.

Halfcan
03-03-2007, 08:11 AM
He doesn't own most WINS...which is the bottom line.

Either will Elgay after this year.