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BigRock
03-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Source: Chiefs sign former Dolphins LT McIntosh to six-year contract

By Alex Marvez
Sun -Sentinel
Posted March 3 2007, 2:51 PM EST

Kansas City signed former Dolphins left tackle Damion McIntosh today to a six-year contract, a source said. Financial terms weren't immediately available.

The Chiefs are hoping McIntosh help provides stability to an offensive line that struggled in 2006 following the preseason retirement of left tackle Willie Roaf.

The Dolphins allowed McIntosh to test the market after being unable to reach agreement with the Dolphins on a contract extension. It's uncertain who the Dolphins will now assign to play left tackle, as McIntosh had started 41 of the past 48 games at the position over the past three seasons.

McIntosh played collegiately at Kansas State after being recruited out of Hollywood McArthur High.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-03-2007, 02:23 PM
EMAW!

Silock
03-03-2007, 02:23 PM
Lame.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:24 PM
I hope that's a joke.......a 6 year contract for another scrub....

mikeyis4dcats.
03-03-2007, 02:26 PM
I hope that's a joke.......a 6 year contract for another scrub....

if it means we're showing JB the door, so be it.

Halfcan
03-03-2007, 02:27 PM
I hope that's a joke.......a 6 year contract for another scrub....

For once I agree with you. Carl needs to go. :shake:

Boltergeist
03-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Good gawd. I'm not here to bash, but just seeing his name again makes me want to hurl. He was the uber turnstile when he was with us...and I don't think he got much better in Miami.

Boltergeist
03-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Honestly, I would take Jordan Black any day of the week over McIntosh. He is absolutely horrible.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:28 PM
I'm guessing the deal didn't break any banks.

Who is better, him or Black? Cause I didn't see many alternatives out there...

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:29 PM
They both suck......we aren't a damn Bowl team, we should have probably just put a CHEAP scrub over there instead of an expensive scrub.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:29 PM
Honestly, I would take Jordan Black any day of the week over McIntosh. He is absolutely horrible.

Have you seen much of Black or is McIntosh THAT bad?

Rain Man
03-03-2007, 02:30 PM
Whether he's better than Black or not, the bottom line is that he's a starter at left tackle for another team, and he'll come in and compete for the position, which is our worst need. I've got no problem with that.

This makes me think that we're drafting either a WR or a DT with our first pick, though.

Reaper16
03-03-2007, 02:30 PM
6 fricken years?

Ultra Peanut
03-03-2007, 02:31 PM
Don't the Dolphins have, y'know, the worst offensive line in any level of football except Pop Warner?

L.A. Chieffan
03-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Whether he's better than Black or not, the bottom line is that he's a starter at left tackle for another team, and he'll come in and compete for the position, which is our worst need. I've got no problem with that.

This makes me think that we're drafting either a WR or a DT with our first pick, though.
I pretty much feel the same way. There's no doubt we need help on the line.
I don't really care too much about the contract length either as opposed to how much he got in signing bonuses.

OnTheWarpath58
03-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Star reporting this as well.....

Damn.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/16828088.htm

Chiefs sign veteran offensive tackle
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs and free-agent offensive tackle Damion McIntosh agreed to terms today on a six-year contract, the players agent said.

McIntosh, who will turn 30 this month, is a seven-year NFL veteran and a six-year starter at left tackle with the Chargers and Dolphins. Chiefs coach Herm Edwards wasn't available to discuss plans for McIntosh, but he presumably will become Kansas City's starting left tackle.

He would replace Jordan Black, who is an unrestricted free agent and can sign with another team.

Linebacker Napoleon Harris was scheduled to arrive in Kansas City today for a visit with the Chiefs.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Whether he's better than Black or not, the bottom line is that he's a starter at left tackle for another team, and he'll come in and compete for the position, which is our worst need. I've got no problem with that.

This makes me think that we're drafting either a WR or a DT with our first pick, though.

yeah, I mean, he started 41 of 48 games. If he was that inadequate, he wouldn't have lasted.

L.A. Chieffan
03-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Don't the Dolphins have, y'know, the worst offensive line in any level of football except Pop Warner?
They looked pretty good against us last year.
But then again that's not very hard.

banyon
03-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Don't the Dolphins have, y'know, the worst offensive line in any level of football except Pop Warner?

That's what I thought. Didn't this guy contribute to the poor pass protection last year? What were his sacks allowed?

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Have you seen much of Black or is McIntosh THAT bad?

AJ Smith cut him when they were 2-14.......they replaced him with Roman Oben......this should tell you how bad this guy is.

JBucc
03-03-2007, 02:35 PM
He's Jamaican, so um, that's cool.

Halfcan
03-03-2007, 02:36 PM
Looks like Carl is gunning for a 2-14 season himself. Nap Harris-you have to be kidding me??

Ultra Peanut
03-03-2007, 02:36 PM
He's Jamaican, so um, that's cool.He can hang out with Oma-- :sulk:

milkman
03-03-2007, 02:36 PM
I wonder how many QBs are going to be on the roster?

Looks like we may need a few more.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:36 PM
The Chiefs are morons there's no nice way to put this, this guy is ****in awful. You could get an undrafted FA that makes no money to do the same job.

Now we get to pay money for the crappy performance. The Chiefs the masters of paying money to just fill a position of need even if the guy sucks.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:38 PM
Assets
Great strength and leverage. A solid run blocker. Moves and adjusts well and doesn't beat himself.

Flaws
Needs protection against better pass rushers. Technique is average. Can be slow-footed. Gets hurt a lot.

Career potential
Adequate starter.


Reading this scouting report, makes me think that we signed him as probably a short term stopgap who can runblock because that's going to be our main focus offensively. We better have someone behind him if he gets injured so much...

Sully
03-03-2007, 02:38 PM
The Chiefs are morons there's no nice way to put this, this guy is ****in awful. You could get an undrafted FA that makes no money to do the same job.

The way some artists deal in oils or watercolors could NEVER equal your skill with hyperbole.

BigRock
03-03-2007, 02:40 PM
According to a Dolphins board, McIntosh gave up 5.5 sacks last year.

According to this board a while back, Jordan Black gave up 13.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:40 PM
The Chiefs are morons there's no nice way to put this, this guy is ****in awful. You could get an undrafted FA that makes no money to do the same job.

Now we get to pay money for the crappy performance. The Chiefs the masters of paying money to just fill a position of need even if the guy sucks.

Carl always seems to pull a Carlton Gray out of his hat every so often...

L.A. Chieffan
03-03-2007, 02:40 PM
Maybe he's not getting that much, they haven't said.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:41 PM
Assets
Great strength and leverage. A solid run blocker. Moves and adjusts well and doesn't beat himself.

Flaws
Needs protection against better pass rushers. Technique is average. Can be slow-footed. Gets hurt a lot.

Career potential
Adequate starter.


Reading this scouting report, makes me think that we signed him as probably a short term stopgap who can runblock because that's going to be our main focus offensively. We better have someone behind him if he gets injured so much...

He's a guard trying to play tackle.....slow footed.....where have we seen this before....

L.A. Chieffan
03-03-2007, 02:42 PM
So we can put him back a guard when Shields retires.

Warrior5
03-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Whether he's better than Black or not, the bottom line is that he's a starter at left tackle for another team, and he'll come in and compete for the position, which is our worst need. I've got no problem with that.

This makes me think that we're drafting either a WR or a DT with our first pick, though.

It'll be a DT that can start next season.

Basileus777
03-03-2007, 02:45 PM
McIntosh is not nearly as bad as Mecca is making him out to be. He isn't great, but he was solid for Miami, especially during Saban's first year. I don't doubt that he is an improvement over Black.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:46 PM
He's a guard trying to play tackle.....slow footed.....where have we seen this before....

I was about to post this: he has been moved around to guard and both tackle positions. We sure we're bringing him in to start at LT? He might just be backup depth, a la the Bober signing...

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:46 PM
It'll be a DT that can start next season.

Yea reach on a DT! seeing as the only 2 first round ones are going way before our pick.

milkman
03-03-2007, 02:47 PM
It'll be a DT that can start next season.

Yeah, let's just reach for a second round talent at DT with our first round pick.

We're smart like that.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:47 PM
McIntosh is not nearly as bad as Mecca is making him out to be. He isn't great, but he was solid for Miami, especially during Saban's first year. I don't doubt that he is an improvement over Black.

It's a bad signing.....if it said 1-2 years hey fine. But it says 6.....he's been let go from 2 teams that had bad offensive lines at the time of not being brought back. He wasn't brought back not because of money but because frankly those teams thought he sucked...

He's an old black version of Jordan Black......

Brock
03-03-2007, 02:48 PM
He's probably better than Black, most sites have him listed as the #2 free agent tackle. But I see the chiefsplanet verdict is already in on a guy that nobody has seen play.

ChiefsCountry
03-03-2007, 02:49 PM
6 year deal worries me but I say its a backloaded contract.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 02:49 PM
That's what I thought. Didn't this guy contribute to the poor pass protection last year? What were his sacks allowed?

Less than the league leader!

L.A. Chieffan
03-03-2007, 02:49 PM
I say give him a shot. 5.5 sacks last year ain't bad.

JBucc
03-03-2007, 02:49 PM
Let's try this agian...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t14/JBuccCP/mcaintosh.jpg?t=1172954959

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:49 PM
He's probably better than Black, most sites have him listed as the #2 free agent tackle. But I see the chiefsplanet verdict is already in on a guy that nobody has seen play.

Considering there was no tackles.........being #2 means alot.

Remember playing SD a few years ago when they were awful....he was a starter on that team.

CupidStunt
03-03-2007, 02:50 PM
You guys are f*cking morons, especially Mecca.

Dude allowed 5.5 sacks, had 3 false starts and just ONE holding penalty.

Compare that to Black (13 sacks, 3 holds) or even an elite tackle like Walter Jones (10.5 sacks, 2 holds).

I'm 100% sure that some of you idiots -- and you know who you are -- don't even watch football.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:50 PM
It's a bad signing.....if it said 1-2 years hey fine. But it says 6.....he's been let go from 2 teams that had bad offensive lines at the time of not being brought back. He wasn't brought back not because of money but because frankly those teams thought he sucked...

He's an old black version of Jordan Black......

6 is just for bookkeeping purposes. In essence it is probably a 2 year deal. The key is how much guaranteed money he got...

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:50 PM
I say give him a shot. 5.5 sacks last year ain't bad.

13 games........he always misses games also...hell we should have signed Luke Petitgout or John Stinchcomb if they were gonna do this.

Brock
03-03-2007, 02:51 PM
Remember playing SD a few years ago when they were awful....he was a starter on that team.

Yeah, that's really meaningful information.

BigRock
03-03-2007, 02:51 PM
It's a bad signing.....if it said 1-2 years hey fine. But it says 6.....he's been let go from 2 teams that had bad offensive lines at the time of not being brought back. He wasn't brought back not because of money but because frankly those teams thought he sucked...
That's not true. The Dolphins wanted to re-sign him.

CupidStunt
03-03-2007, 02:51 PM
He's probably better than Black, most sites have him listed as the #2 free agent tackle. But I see the chiefsplanet verdict is already in on a guy that nobody has seen play.

Yep. And they're mostly idiots.

And again, 6 years most likely = 3 years.

Just like Clements' 8 year/$80 million deal is actually more like 6 year/$45 million.

Since when has the NFL guaranteed contracts for its players? Oh yeah, that's right -- they haven't.

Basileus777
03-03-2007, 02:52 PM
It's a bad signing.....if it said 1-2 years hey fine. But it says 6.....

The length of the contract is not nearly as meaningful as you make it out to be. We don't know the terms of the contract and how backloaded it is. For all we know this is nothing more than a 1 year contract made to look better for the agent.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:53 PM
The length of the contract is not nearly as meaningful as you make it out to be. We don't know the terms of the contract and how backloaded it is. For all we know this is nothing more than a 1 year contract made to look better for the agent.

You know......I'm not going to say anything about this anymore. If you want to be positive about the bad signing go ahead be my guest, it's all we have.

The Chiefs are never going to do things the right way, they are satisfied winning their 7-10 games every year.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 02:54 PM
can't hurt

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 02:54 PM
You guys are f*cking morons, especially Mecca.

Dude allowed 5.5 sacks, had 3 false starts and just ONE holding penalty.

Compare that to Black (13 sacks, 3 holds) or even an elite tackle like Walter Jones (10.5 sacks, 2 holds).

I'm 100% sure that some of you idiots -- and you know who you are -- don't even watch football.

The key here is A) What role he was brought in to play, and B) Do his skills match up with the offensive system and blocking schemes we are going to employ?

He could very well be a bad signing, or work out well for what we want to do...

BigRock
03-03-2007, 02:54 PM
A Dolphin writer's take on McIntosh, written a few days ago:

FINS WANT MCINTOSH BACK; FEELING ISN'T MUTUAL

It was reported that left tackle Damion McIntosh will not re-sign with the Dolphins prior to the start of free agency, despite the fact that the Dolphins have said they want him back. I can't really say I blame him much. He was very much underappreciated last season, as he actually did a good job at LT when LJ Shelton was moved to guard. He will also garner a lot of attention from teams that are looking for a tackle, seeing as how the tackle market is fairly weak this year. Losing McIntosh would be a fairly significant blow to the Dolphins for two reasons. First, like I said, he actually played pretty well last year and would be a much better option for the Dolphins at LT than LJ Shelton is, the only Dolphins on the current roster will LT experience. Second, this now leaves another void that will need to be filled either via free agency or the draft. With not much money to spend this offseason, the loss of McIntosh hurts even more.

CupidStunt
03-03-2007, 02:55 PM
Sounds about right.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 02:56 PM
Looks like Carl is gunning for a 2-14 season himself. Nap Harris-you have to be kidding me??

Who would you sign this year to make us a contender?

Save the money for when we need it in 2009. I hope all the teams spend all their money for the next three years, you can not build a team thru FA, maybe add one position or two to succeed.

I imagine you spent your wad before (in) hand as well?

People complain when we sign FA players and bitch when we do not.

I hope we sign no more FA and take our lumps this year. I have stared to look to 2008 for a change of pace after 10 years of "next" year.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 02:57 PM
A Dolphin writer's take on McIntosh, written a few days ago:
Wow, that's awesome.

So far, A for Carl!

tk13
03-03-2007, 02:58 PM
We once signed Kendrell Bell to a 7 year deal. And he's not going to be here next year... I wouldn't freak out over the 6-year contract.

Brock
03-03-2007, 02:58 PM
You know......I'm not going to say anything about this anymore. If you want to be positive about the bad signing go ahead be my guest, it's all we have.

The Chiefs are never going to do things the right way, they are satisfied winning their 7-10 games every year.

You know....you don't know what the money is or how it's structured or even what kind of player this guy is. But you're still going to run your mouth about how dumb of a deal it is, even though the Chiefs have nobody but a proven stiff to turn to at LT.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 02:58 PM
According to football outsiders Miami was 25th in the league running left end 10th running left tackle......that's not exactly good...

Also for the other comment I would have signed no one this year that wasn't cheap. The Chiefs are in a get younger dump older players time. They need to be releasing the Knights, Sims, Wesleys, Hicks and so forth not signing more old guys to go with them.....we need to be playing to have alot of cap room next year and the year after not spending it now when we need to be gutting this team.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-03-2007, 02:59 PM
6 is just for bookkeeping purposes. In essence it is probably a 2 year deal. The key is how much guaranteed money he got...

exactly. I'm sure no one expects him to be here 6 years. It's all about spreading the dollars.

Brock
03-03-2007, 03:00 PM
so tell us all Mecca, just how much did the Chiefs overspend for McIntosh? Enlighten us, please. Be sure and tell us all how much better the team would be if they just stuck with Jordan Black.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:00 PM
You know....you don't know what the money is or how it's structured or even what kind of player this guy is. But you're still going to run your mouth about how dumb of a deal it is, even though the Chiefs have nobody but a proven stiff to turn to at LT.

I enjoy this take why don't you just say....

"we signed him he must be good if you dont like him you suck"

Seeing as that is basically your arguement. Acting like I've never seen him play is laughable he was in our division for several years.

'My god you disagree with me you don't know football!"

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:01 PM
so tell us all Mecca, just how much did the Chiefs overspend for McIntosh? Enlighten us, please. Be sure and tell us all how much better the team would be if they just stuck with Jordan Black.

We'll see when the contract comes out.....if it's anything over 20 mill and the bonus is very high it's going to be laughable.

Sully
03-03-2007, 03:01 PM
You know......I'm not going to say anything about this anymore.

That didn't last long...

According to football outsiders Miami was 25th in the league running left end 10th running left tackle......that's not exactly good...

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 03:02 PM
You know......I'm not going to say anything about this anymore. If you want to be positive about the bad signing go ahead be my guest, it's all we have.

The Chiefs are never going to do things the right way, they are satisfied winning their 7-10 games every year.

I agree but who should we sign in FA to make a run?

Nobody for two years IMO. Saved the cash for when and if we need it. Lets the money fall this year for FA's.

FA is for teams that are close and we are rebuilding even if CP does not want to say that because of season tickets.

Everybody has to rebuild sooner or later and the success is from teams that know this, unlike the Chiefs.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 03:02 PM
You gotta try REALLY hard to be as bad as Black was last year. Worst tackle I've seen in our uniform over an extended period since Criswell:

Chiefs left tackle Jordan Black led the league in sacks allowed with 13, according to Stats, LLC.

Brock
03-03-2007, 03:02 PM
I enjoy this take why don't you just say....

"we signed him he must be good if you dont like him you suck"

Seeing as that is basically your arguement. Acting like I've never seen him play is laughable he was in our division for several years.

'My god you disagree with me you don't know football!"

Uh, no, dumbshit. Since I don't know HOW MUCH MONEY WAS SPENT, I can't say whether it was a good deal or not. See, I tend to wait to get some information before I spout off, unlike you, the consummate armchair GM. Frankly, I wouldn't trust you to manage a hotdog stand.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-03-2007, 03:02 PM
According to football outsiders Miami was 25th in the league running left end 10th running left tackle......that's not exactly good...

Also for the other comment I would have signed no one this year that wasn't cheap. The Chiefs are in a get younger dump older players time. They need to be releasing the Knights, Sims, Wesleys, Hicks and so forth not signing more old guys to go with them.....we need to be playing to have alot of cap room next year and the year after not spending it now when we need to be gutting this team.

The reason we aren't totally committing to getting that much younger is Carl is afraid he'll lose season ticket holders with 5 to 6 win seasons. The key is to stay competitive just enough, according to Carl and the late Lamar.

Brock
03-03-2007, 03:04 PM
We'll see when the contract comes out.....if it's anything over 20 mill and the bonus is very high it's going to be laughable.

You're making it sound as if it's laughable NOW. What's really laughable is you thinking that you know much at all about football or the business of football.

Basileus777
03-03-2007, 03:04 PM
I enjoy this take why don't you just say....

"we signed him he must be good if you dont like him you suck"

Seeing as that is basically your arguement. Acting like I've never seen him play is laughable he was in our division for several years.

'My god you disagree with me you don't know football!"

Talk about a strawman....

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:05 PM
The reason we aren't totally committing to getting that much younger is Carl is afraid he'll lose season ticket holders with 5 to 6 win seasons. The key is to stay competitive just enough, according to Carl and the late Lamar.

And that is why we don't win Superbowls.......the fear that making the right moves will result in a bad year. So we maintain the status quo.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:06 PM
I agree but who should we sign in FA to make a run?

Nobody for two years IMO. Saved the cash for when and if we need it. Lets the money fall this year for FA's.

FA is for teams that are close and we are rebuilding even if CP does not want to say that because of season tickets.

Everybody has to rebuild sooner or later and the success is from teams that know this, unlike the Chiefs.

We aren't in any position to "make a run" there are atleast 5-7 teams in the AFC signicifantly better than we. We are an old declining team we need to revamp and rebuild not try to make "one last run with the old timers"

mikeyis4dcats.
03-03-2007, 03:06 PM
And that is why we don't win Superbowls.......the fear that making the right moves will result in a bad year. So we maintain the status quo.

for us, football is a game. for the owners and league, it's a BUSINESS.

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:06 PM
Damion McIntosh did have a solid season last year.
His best season, to be sure.

However, his numbers were helped to a large degree by the fact that Joey Harrington did what the Dolphins asked him to do, in that he got the ball out quickly.

Three step drop, make a decision and get rid of the ball.

If the Chiefs continue to play offense the way they did last season, putting themselves in obvious 3rd down passing situations, then McIntosh will struggle.

He is better than Black, I'll grant.

I just hope we didn't spend big money to sign him.

tk13
03-03-2007, 03:07 PM
I'm personally not blown away by this signing, but if there's one area we're going to dump money into it should be the lines. They need improvement. And this whole "rebuilding" idea is garbage if you have Jordan Black at LT. Croyle or any other QB will never, ever develop if you put him behind a line that gets him killed... he'll just be another David Carr. You cannot "get by" and skimp when it comes to the offensive line. You gotta think 4th dimensionally, Marty. Not protecting your QB and RB now is going to wear them down for the time when "the future" is here.

OnTheWarpath58
03-03-2007, 03:08 PM
I'm personally not blown away by this signing, but if there's one area we're going to dump money into it should be the lines. They need improvement. And this whole "rebuilding" idea is garbage if you have Jordan Black at LT. Croyle or any other QB will never, ever develop if you put him behind a line that gets him killed... he'll just be another David Carr. You cannot "get by" and skimp when it comes to the offensive line. You gotta think 4th dimensionally, Marty. Not protecting your QB and RB now is going to wear them down for the time when "the future" is here.

The RB is already worn down....

Didn't you get the memo?


:rolleyes:

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:09 PM
I'm personally not blown away by this signing, but if there's one area we're going to dump money into it should be the lines. They need improvement. And this whole "rebuilding" idea is garbage if you have Jordan Black at LT. Croyle or any other QB will never, ever develop if you put him behind a line that gets him killed... he'll just be another David Carr. You cannot "get by" and skimp when it comes to the offensive line. You gotta think 4th dimensionally, Marty. Not protecting your QB and RB now is going to wear them down for the time when "the future" is here.

The playcalling is enough to wear Larry Johnson down to the point that he isn't a part of the future.........

MGRS13
03-03-2007, 03:09 PM
According to football outsiders Miami was 25th in the league running left end 10th running left tackle......that's not exactly good...

Also for the other comment I would have signed no one this year that wasn't cheap. The Chiefs are in a get younger dump older players time. They need to be releasing the Knights, Sims, Wesleys, Hicks and so forth not signing more old guys to go with them.....we need to be playing to have alot of cap room next year and the year after not spending it now when we need to be gutting this team.
I agree with you, but Carl won't do that he's only got three years left according to himself he signed his last contract. No way he guts this team and builds a young team for someone else to come in and win with. Like it or not the next few years are Carls swan song, he's gonna keep pushing it.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:12 PM
I agree with you, but Carl won't do that he's only got three years left according to himself he signed his last contract. No way he guts this team and builds a young team for someone else to come in and win with. Like it or not the next few years are Carls swan song, he's gonna keep pushing it.

I look forward to that reach of Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh with Jarrett on the board during the draft then.

MGRS13
03-03-2007, 03:16 PM
I look forward to that reach of Joe Staley or Tony Ugoh with Jarrett on the board during the draft then.
Well if Jarret is as slow as people are saying he is I'd say he's a reach too. If the two LB's are on the board, Willis and Timmons I'd much rather have one of them.

Brock
03-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Well if Jarret is as slow as people are saying he is I'd say he's a reach too. If the two LB's are on the board, Willis and Timmons I'd much rather have one of them.

Uh oh......You didn't just say a USC player sucked, did you?

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:19 PM
Well if Jarret is as slow as people are saying he is I'd say he's a reach too. If the two LB's are on the board, Willis and Timmons I'd much rather have one of them.

Hey Willis, Jarrett no problems man.......just saying I better not see a major reach for an Olineman because "bah Gawd we gotta improve that line right now no matter what".......which sounds like a typical Chiefs move sad to say.

Woodrow Call
03-03-2007, 03:19 PM
Ok signing, upgrade over Black and the cast of matadors the Chiefs trotted out there last year. Weak crop in the draft and FA so something had to be done either way. He was decent last year and maybe his just a late bloomer that has found his niche.

Hopefully this fills a need and keeps the Chiefs from reaching for a guy like Ugoh in the draft.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 03:20 PM
We aren't in any position to "make a run" there are atleast 5-7 teams in the AFC signicifantly better than we. We are an old declining team we need to revamp and rebuild not try to make "one last run with the old timers"

I thought that was part of my statement as well?

Maybe I am sleep deprived too much?
I agreed and just wanted to know why we would need to sign one or two "big time" free agents this year or what would make you happy.

el borracho
03-03-2007, 03:20 PM
Meh. If he was cheap then it was a good move. At least this gives us more flexibility in the draft. Now we have someone who can start at left tackle, if an Oline prospect is there at 23 who merits the pick then we can take him. If there isn't an Oline prospect available at 23, we can pick something else because we've already got a guy who is adequate.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:25 PM
I thought that was part of my statement as well?

Maybe I am sleep deprived too much?
I agreed and just wanted to know why we would need to sign one or two "big time" free agents this year or what would make you happy.

What would make me happy is to see all those players I listed previously get cut.....that would do more than any signing, we aren't even close to being 1-2 players away.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 03:27 PM
The same thing I said in the original post?

Who would you sign this year to make us a contender?

"Save the money for when we need it in 2009. I hope all the teams spend all their money for the next three years, you can not build a team thru FA, maybe add one position or two to succeed.

I imagine you spent your wad before (in) hand as well?

People complain when we sign FA players and bitch when we do not.

I hope we sign no more FA and take our lumps this year. I have stared to look to 2008 for a change of pace after 10 years of "next" year."

????????????????????????????????????

Woodrow Call
03-03-2007, 03:28 PM
Chiefnj should be happy. He's been saying McIntosh since the season ended.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:29 PM
I've been against signing FA's this offseason all along......I wouldn't say a damn thing if they had signed no one.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:29 PM
Damion McIntosh did have a solid season last year.
His best season, to be sure.

However, his numbers were helped to a large degree by the fact that Joey Harrington did what the Dolphins asked him to do, in that he got the ball out quickly.

Three step drop, make a decision and get rid of the ball.

If the Chiefs continue to play offense the way they did last season, putting themselves in obvious 3rd down passing situations, then McIntosh will struggle.

He is better than Black, I'll grant.

I just hope we didn't spend big money to sign him.
Well then he's perfect; Huard gets rid of the ball.

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:30 PM
I've been against signing FA's this offseason all along......I wouldn't say a damn thing if they had signed no one.

Same here.

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:33 PM
Well then he's perfect; Huard gets rid of the ball.

I saw this post coming, and if Huard is the starter next season, then I agree with you.

As I said, I hope we didn't spend big bucks on McIntosh, cause we aren't going to the SB, and I want to get younger over the next three years.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 03:33 PM
I am at a lost, I agreed with 90% of what you said but you kept using my post to prove your point that I was wrong?

OK, I am wrong so where does that leave your replies and typing sense?

stevieray
03-03-2007, 03:33 PM
I just want to see the commitment to youth and the cutting of dead weight.

Couple that with a draft like last year, it could be an interesting off season.

This year is crucial to see which direction Clark is going to take the franchise.

Brock
03-03-2007, 03:34 PM
I've been against signing FA's this offseason all along......I wouldn't say a damn thing if they had signed no one.

Ok....and how then do you replace the 6 or 7 players who are leaving? Sure, let's put some undrafted free agent or a 5th round draft pick out there protecting Huard or Croyle's back side.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:35 PM
I saw this post coming, and if Huard is the starter next season, then I agree with you.

As I said, I hope we didn't spend big bucks on McIntosh, cause we aren't going to the SB, and I want to get younger over the next three years.
we have playoff talent on our roster, right now...no doubt.

LJ/Huard/Gonzalez/Kennison are good enough on offense...and I HONESTLY expect us to have a defense ranked between 8th and 13th next year.

We are a defensive team now, that's for sure...a few good decisions personnel wise and we're an 11 win team.

I know the majority of you guys want back to back 5 win seasons, but not me...only way we win a Super Bowl is by making the playoffs.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:37 PM
we have playoff talent on our roster, right now...no doubt.

LJ/Huard/Gonzalez/Kennison are good enough on offense...and I HONESTLY expect us to have a defense ranked between 8th and 13th next year.

We are a defensive team now, that's for sure...a few good decisions personnel wise and we're an 11 win team.

I know the majority of you guys want back to back 5 win seasons, but not me...only way we win a Super Bowl is by making the playoffs.

The Chiefs were the worst team in the AFC playoffs last year...do you magically think we are better than all those teams now?

Woodrow Call
03-03-2007, 03:38 PM
Ok....and how then do you replace the 6 or 7 players who are leaving? Sure, let's put some undrafted free agent or a 5th round draft pick out there protecting Huard or Croyle's back side.

Exactly. They have to fill to holes and at most 2 or 3 will be through the draft. FA are a must like it or not.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:39 PM
The Chiefs were the worst team in the AFC playoffs last year...do you magically think we are better than all those teams now?
I think we were a LT and Huard away from giving the Colts a real game.

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:39 PM
we have playoff talent on our roster, right now...no doubt.

LJ/Huard/Gonzalez/Kennison are good enough on offense...and I HONESTLY expect us to have a defense ranked between 8th and 13th next year.

We are a defensive team now, that's for sure...a few good decisions personnel wise and we're an 11 win team.

I know the majority of you guys want back to back 5 win seasons, but not me...only way we win a Super Bowl is by making the playoffs.

I don't want back to back 5 win seasons.

I simply want to gut the roster and get younger, faster, and more athletic.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:40 PM
Exactly. They have to fill to holes and at most 2 or 3 will be through the draft. FA are a must like it or not.

I'd rather play young guys and see if they have it.....that's just me though. You will obviously take your lumps doing that I know not everyone is ok with winning 3-5 games even though it wouldn't bug me at all to get the end result.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 03:41 PM
I've been against signing FA's this offseason all along......I wouldn't say a damn thing if they had signed no one.


:hmmm:

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:41 PM
I think we were a LT and Huard away from giving the Colts a real game.

How about those WR's......it's more than 2 guys.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-03-2007, 03:41 PM
we have playoff talent on our roster, right now...no doubt.

LJ/Huard/Gonzalez/Kennison are good enough on offense...and I HONESTLY expect us to have a defense ranked between 8th and 13th next year.

We are a defensive team now, that's for sure...a few good decisions personnel wise and we're an 11 win team.

I know the majority of you guys want back to back 5 win seasons, but not me...only way we win a Super Bowl is by making the playoffs.

I'm sorry, but we aren't making the playoffs next year.

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:41 PM
I think we were a LT and Huard away from giving the Colts a real game.

How about some receivers that catch the balls thrown to them?

I'm sure all those dropped passe against the Colts were Trent's fault.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 03:43 PM
According to a Dolphins board, McIntosh gave up 5.5 sacks last year.

According to this board a while back, Jordan Black gave up 13.

Bingo!

I like this signing.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:45 PM
I'm sorry, but we aren't making the playoffs next year.
I think we will. LJ/TG/Huard/Arrowhead is good for 10 wins.

Smed1065
03-03-2007, 03:47 PM
I'd rather play young guys and see if they have it.....that's just me though. You will obviously take your lumps doing that I know not everyone is ok with winning 3-5 games even though it wouldn't bug me at all to get the end result.

I agree and I am an optimist. I just got lost on following the thread. I want a usual CP type year because I have also committed myself to a year or two to rebuild. (Carl will hate even that thought)

I figured CP wants no part of that because when he leaves and we play in the AFC game, he will know he was not flexible enough to change.

I might not be rich but I have learned that if the sh-t does not work, you have to adjust your thinking or plans to make it work.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 03:47 PM
Basically, everyone needs to stop FREAKING OUT over this.

He's a stopgap LT until we can get our real LTOTF in here. Maybe even this year via the draft, who knows.

There's no way we were going into the season with Black at left tackle. This had to be done.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:49 PM
If I hear the ****ing term 'stopgap' one more time, I'm going to do nothing, but I'm going to be very annoyed. Jesus Christ, stop with the 'stopgaps'!

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:49 PM
We'll see if he's stopgap or not based on the contract....all I know is this market is out of control and I'd hate to pay a player who's not that good a big amount of money.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:49 PM
god damnit mecca

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:50 PM
Basically, everyone needs to stop FREAKING OUT over this.

He's a stopgap LT until we can get our real LTOTF in here. Maybe even this year via the draft, who knows.

There's no way we were going into the season with Black at left tackle. This had to be done.

We won't know if it's just a stopgap move until we know what kind of money he got.

I think you're right, and am fine with that, as long as his contract isn't a cap choker.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm guessing it's around 30 million with 10 million in guaranteed money. That would seem fair, especially given the ridiculous money that's being thrown around.

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:52 PM
god damnit mecca

I second that, but for different reasons.

Mecca is like one step ahead of me throughout this thread.

He's younger and faster.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 03:53 PM
I second that, but for different reasons.

Mecca is like one step ahead of me throughout this thread.

He's younger and faster.

I'd obviously have to cut you to achieve my goal.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:53 PM
I'm guessing it's around 30 million with 10 million in guaranteed money. That would seem fair, especially given the ridiculous money that's being thrown around.
seems too high...

milkman
03-03-2007, 03:54 PM
I'd obviously have to cut you to achieve my goal.

Heartless Bastard!

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 03:54 PM
seems too high...

Not the way NFL contracts work today.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 03:55 PM
Not the way NFL contracts work today.
lol - oh, ok

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 03:56 PM
I didn't realize Alex Marvez had a regular paper gig. I only know him from Wrestling Observer.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 04:01 PM
I didn't realize Alex Marvez had a regular paper gig. I only know him from Wrestling Observer.

Is the Meltz based out of Miami........that could explain that.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Just scrounging for info...

The aforementioned McIntosh has been manning that position for most of the past three seasons and has been mediocre at best. The soon-to-be 30-year-old has given up 18˝ sacks since arriving in Miami, has been flagged for a ridiculous 16 false start penalties, and has failed to help produce solid run-blocking on the left side. Incidentally, the Dolphins are trying to re-sign McIntosh, which is a damning indictment on the lack of overall depth and talent along the offensive line.

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/02/dolphins-shelton-rumors270207.html

crazycoffey
03-03-2007, 04:02 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/03/03/chiefs_agree_to_terms_of_a_sixyear_contract_with_ufa_t_damion_mcintosh/


it's on the chiefs site

Mecca
03-03-2007, 04:04 PM
Just scrounging for info...



http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/02/dolphins-shelton-rumors270207.html

That sounds more like the McIntosh I was thinking of....

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 04:05 PM
That's my boss, Hugo. Nice guy.

DaWolf
03-03-2007, 04:06 PM
“We are very pleased to have acquired the services of Damion McIntosh to play left tackle for the Kansas City Chiefs,” Peterson commented. “He is an established starter at that position in the National Football League who we anticipate will be a very competitive performer. Damion played particularly well against the Chiefs when we faced him in 2006.”

Well, looks like they do want him at LT, not to move around. The competitive performer part leads me to believe he will be fighting for the position and not handed it.

I hope they didn't use our pass rushers as a measuring stick of his abilities...

ChiefaRoo
03-03-2007, 04:10 PM
Whether he's better than Black or not, the bottom line is that he's a starter at left tackle for another team, and he'll come in and compete for the position, which is our worst need. I've got no problem with that.

This makes me think that we're drafting either a WR or a DT with our first pick, though.


DT I think Rain Man.

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 04:12 PM
Is the Meltz based out of Miami........that could explain that.San Francisco, I think.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 04:18 PM
San Francisco, I think.

Hrm I wouldn't know if he moved or not to be honest, I use to subscribe but now I can get all the info in there on the net without paying for it so yea.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 04:19 PM
Nothing against Hugo, but 18 1/2 sacks allowed in three years isn't that bad. The false starts is pretty gross, but he got that under control this year.

The Bad Guy
03-03-2007, 04:42 PM
According to football outsiders Miami was 25th in the league running left end 10th running left tackle......that's not exactly good...

Also for the other comment I would have signed no one this year that wasn't cheap. The Chiefs are in a get younger dump older players time. They need to be releasing the Knights, Sims, Wesleys, Hicks and so forth not signing more old guys to go with them.....we need to be playing to have alot of cap room next year and the year after not spending it now when we need to be gutting this team.

Yeah, don't sign anyone and let the remaining scab talent fight it out to protect the QB's blindside.

As Brock said, you have no ****ing idea how the contract is structured, but yet, you want to whine like you have the contract figures sitting in front of you.

And with the way the cap keeps increasing, you again have no clue how much dough the Chiefs have to work with next year, but you want to pretend like you do.

Seriously, go root for another team and spare me with the "I'm a realistic fan" bullshit.

The Chiefs needed an LT, they signed one who I haven't paid any attention to. I'm willing to see how it works out before I whine about it.

Rausch
03-03-2007, 04:47 PM
I'm willing to see how it works out before I whine about it.

Sorry, that's not how it works around here.

Your choice: Carl overpaid or the guy's a bust, followed by a comment about Peterson and an article on the Chiefs' site on why the move will convince Jesus to return to earth...

nychief
03-03-2007, 04:48 PM
We had to sign a veteran lineman. Black is going to walk - Turley retire - Sheilds retire - Casey might quit. This is just football smart here.

Now we need to draft a couple big ol' boys in April.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 04:49 PM
Yeah, don't sign anyone and let the remaining scab talent fight it out to protect the QB's blindside.

As Brock said, you have no ****ing idea how the contract is structured, but yet, you want to whine like you have the contract figures sitting in front of you.

And with the way the cap keeps increasing, you again have no clue how much dough the Chiefs have to work with next year, but you want to pretend like you do.

Seriously, go root for another team and spare me with the "I'm a realistic fan" bullshit.

The Chiefs needed an LT, they signed one who I haven't paid any attention to. I'm willing to see how it works out before I whine about it.

"we signed him he must be good if you dont like him you suck"

That's all you had to say.......I do however enjoy how you take time to bust on my opinions pretty much all the time.

Extra Point
03-03-2007, 04:49 PM
The guy's from Jamaica.

"Hey, mon. I block for you, no problem. After I finish me conch chowda, mon."

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 04:57 PM
Mecca, you are overreacting.

Are you going to sit here and tell me you'd be happy with Jordan Black starting at left tackle?

Mecca
03-03-2007, 05:01 PM
Mecca, you are overreacting.

Are you going to sit here and tell me you'd be happy with Jordan Black starting at left tackle?

No.....the point is we could likely get about the same production from someone who doesn't make half what we paid him. I'm of course guessing on what I've seen from this market so far.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 05:02 PM
No.....the point is we could likely get about the same production from someone who doesn't make half what we paid him. I'm of course guessing on what I've seen from this market so far.

Bullshit. There's no one out there. You're talking like McIntosh isn't an upgrade from Black.

Guru
03-03-2007, 05:02 PM
Carl at his finest again.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 05:06 PM
Are you ****er serious? Half this place was whining yesterday when we didnt sign anyone. Now we sign a DECENT left tackle, EASILY an upgrade, and the other half is bitching.

HERM FOR PRESIDENT!

Coach
03-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Are you ****er serious? Half this place was whining yesterday when we didnt sign anyone. Now we sign a DECENT left tackle, EASILY an upgrade, and the other half is bitching.

HERM FOR PRESIDENT!

A mediocre lineman with no real upside. Great. This isn't a camp fodder signing either, it will probably cost us to dump him when he blows.

http://www.chiefshuddle.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/hashy_diaf.gif

Fairplay
03-03-2007, 05:35 PM
We need some new blood up there. I like the pick up.

the Talking Can
03-03-2007, 05:42 PM
there's a lot of vaginal blood in this thread....and not piece of information about the actual contract....

Brock
03-03-2007, 05:47 PM
"we signed him he must be good if you dont like him you suck"

That's all you had to say.......I do however enjoy how you take time to bust on my opinions pretty much all the time.

Yeah, dipshit, if we all listened to you we'd all believe that John Abraham is a better player than Jared Allen. Who can disagree with genius insights like that one...I laugh every time I think about that one.

Coach
03-03-2007, 05:47 PM
there's a lot of vaginal blood in this thread....and not piece of information about the actual contract....

Give it time, it'll come.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 05:48 PM
Yeah, dipshit, if we all listened to you we'd all believe that John Abraham is a better player than Jared Allen. Who can disagree with genius insights like that one...I laugh every time I think about that one.

Healthy John Abraham is better than Jared Allen.......he's just injured frequently.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 05:49 PM
He's a better pass rusher.......when he's not injured.

Great. You want an award?

Brock
03-03-2007, 05:49 PM
He's a better pass rusher.......when he's not injured.

LMAO

Brock
03-03-2007, 05:50 PM
Abraham isn't a better anything than Jared Allen, except maybe sucking up dollars for doing nothing.

Chiefs=Good
03-03-2007, 05:51 PM
could the fact that we signed a left tackle mean that we may look for a centre and guard in the draft? :hmmm: plus i think we are better of signing a takle so we can draft a centre and guard, i means what happen if shields and wiegmen do retire? then we would want to be able to replace them and i really dont see any guards worth signing that are worth the money they will get, plus mcintosh could always play guard.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 05:51 PM
Vonnie Holliday is a better passrusher than Ryan Sims...when he's not injured.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 05:51 PM
LMAO

Nothing amazes me like this board sometimes.........Jared Allen is a GOOD player. Ok, but since we are Chiefs fans and he plays for the Chiefs this does not appointment to elite levels.

Where are his 15 sack seasons? Where are his trips to Hawaii? Oh yea...taking nothing away from Jared Allen he does not have the pass rush ability of Jason Taylor or John Abraham or players like that.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 05:53 PM
Nothing amazes me like this board sometimes.........Jared Allen is a GOOD player. Ok, but since we are Chiefs fans and he plays for the Chiefs this does not appointment to elite levels.

Where are his 15 sack seasons? Where are his trips to Hawaii? Oh yea...taking nothing away from Jared Allen he does not have the pass rush ability of Jason Taylor or John Abraham or players like that.

No one is arguing that. But Jared Allen is better than ANY player who can't stay on the field.

BTW, guess who has more sacks in the last three years?

Brock
03-03-2007, 05:53 PM
Nothing amazes me like this board sometimes.........Jared Allen is a GOOD player. Ok, but since we are Chiefs fans and he plays for the Chiefs this does not appointment to elite levels.

Where are his 15 sack seasons? Where are his trips to Hawaii? Oh yea...taking nothing away from Jared Allen he does not have the pass rush ability of Jason Taylor or John Abraham or players like that.

You're actually saying John Abraham is an elite player...see, this is the kind of retarded shit that gets you laughed at.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 05:55 PM
You're actually saying John Abraham is an elite player...see, this is the kind of retarded shit that gets you laughed at.

Take this arguement anywhere that isn't a Chiefs board and watch what happens.....obviously I won't win it here. Healthy John Abraham is an elite player, problem is that's usually only for about 10 games.

This view of Jared Allen around here is seriously weird, you'd think he was Jason ****in Taylor.

Brock
03-03-2007, 05:57 PM
Healthy John Abraham is an elite player, problem is that's usually only for about 10 games.

Then HE ISN'T AN ELITE PLAYER, IS HE? And quit trying to change the argument to Jason TAylor. Abraham isn't shit compared to Taylor.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 05:59 PM
Jared Allen is Aaron Schobel if you want a comparison........he's not one of those elite ends..he's a 2nd/3rd tier end that is good but not great.

Brock
03-03-2007, 06:02 PM
Jared Allen is Aaron Schobel if you want a comparison........he's not one of those elite ends..he's a 2nd/3rd tier end that is good but not great.

Why do you keep trying to drag other players into the argument? Oh, yeah, because you said something stupid about Abraham being an elite player compared to Jared Allen.

I'd try to cover my tracks as well, if I said something that ****ing dumb.

Fairplay
03-03-2007, 06:03 PM
I think it would be alright if say two out of the first three picks are spent on the O line. We need a major overhaul at the front lines. We should just get some youth movement in, we addressed that issue. Remember when the line was solid for years on end? And kicked butt. Time the avenger has caught up.
Restructure it with good draft picks as well as free agency and pickups this year.

Demonpenz
03-03-2007, 06:03 PM
No.....the point is we could likely get about the same production from someone who doesn't make half what we paid him. I'm of course guessing on what I've seen from this market so far.


What person is out there that could do the same job at half the cost?

The Bad Guy
03-03-2007, 06:16 PM
Take this arguement anywhere that isn't a Chiefs board and watch what happens.....obviously I won't win it here. Healthy John Abraham is an elite player, problem is that's usually only for about 10 games.

This view of Jared Allen around here is seriously weird, you'd think he was Jason ****in Taylor.


3 ten sack seasons out of 7 doesn't make him an elite player. It's hysterical how you commonly shit all over anything Chiefs related, but you'll put other, above average players on a throne and kiss their ass.

Jared Allen is a good player who has changed games for the Chiefs. He's the best defensive player we have.

You might realize that if you watched the games without your head up your ass.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 06:43 PM
Until we know what kind of money he got, there's no reason to complain about this move.

Was anybody complaining about signing Chris Terry? We just got another team's STARTING LT, and if it was CHEAP, it was worth it.

I don't care how bad he might be, NOBODY IN THE LEAGUE was worse than Jordan Black last season.

NOBODY.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 06:47 PM
there's a lot of vaginal blood in this thread....and not piece of information about the actual contract....

:clap:

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 06:48 PM
well if it's 6/30 with 10 guaranteed like gochiefs suggested, I think that's a bit outrageous, definitely.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 06:50 PM
well if it's 6/30 with 10 guaranteed like gochiefs suggested, I think that's a bit outrageous, definitely.

Kendrell Bell's contract was in the realm of $25M with $10M guaranteed. You know how much of that guaranteed money he actually SAW? About $2M. That's how it works when most of your "guaranteed" money is a March roster bonus that only gets paid if your ON THE TEAM.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 06:51 PM
Kendrell Bell's contract was in the realm of $25M with $10M guaranteed. You know how much of that guaranteed money he actually SAW? About $2M. That's how it works when most of your "guaranteed" money is a March roster bonus that only gets paid if your ON THE TEAM.
Ok.

I apologize.

I hope we can still be friends.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 06:52 PM
Ok.

I apologize.

I hope we can still be friends.

ROFL

We were never friends, douchebag. :D

No seriously, I'm not mad or anything. I just can't believe anybody would be complaining about this right now.

1) We have no idea how much money he got.

2) He's not Leonard Davis.

3) He's not Jordan Black.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 06:54 PM
I didn't complain, once.

I complimented Carl for signing a decent LT and getting Huard 0.50 on the dollar.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 06:56 PM
I didn't complain, once.

I complimented Carl for signing a decent LT and getting Huard 0.50 on the dollar.

I didn't say you did.

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 06:58 PM
We're one DT, one DE, one OG, and one WR away from being a good team.

Maybe one HC, too...but we'll see.

The Bad Guy
03-03-2007, 06:58 PM
Davis wanted reportedly 22 mill in guarantees. I bet McIntosh didn't even get 10.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 07:02 PM
Davis wanted reportedly 22 mill in guarantees. I bet McIntosh didn't even get 10.

Leonard Davis isn't worth $2200, let alone $22M.

acesn8s
03-03-2007, 07:02 PM
We're one DT, one DE, one OG, and one WR away from being a good team.

Maybe one HC, too...but we'll see.And one ILB, and one OLB and one CB and one C and one QB and one GM and ....

Short Leash Hootie
03-03-2007, 07:02 PM
And one ILB, and one OLB and one CB and one C and one QB and one GM and ....
yeah yeah yeah

Fairplay
03-03-2007, 07:03 PM
I would start with a new GM, and go from there.

Frankie
03-03-2007, 07:07 PM
could the fact that we signed a left tackle mean that we may look for a centre and guard in the draft? :hmmm:
No. It means we don't have to draft a Lt in the 1st anymore. We can afford to go after a project with upside in say the 3rd round or so.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 07:08 PM
No. It means we don't have to draft a Lt in the 1st anymore. We can afford to go after a project with upside in say the 3rd round or so.

EXACTLY.

acesn8s
03-03-2007, 07:10 PM
No. It means we don't have to draft a Lt in the 1st anymore. We can afford to go after a project with upside in say the 3rd round or so.Or the first round like Trezelle

Frankie
03-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Or the first round like Trezelle
Be careful. I just ate!

Demonpenz
03-03-2007, 07:15 PM
is svetech our RT next year?

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 07:16 PM
is svetech our RT next year?

No. Terry is the odds-on-favorite to start. I imagine there will be competition however.

dirk digler
03-03-2007, 07:46 PM
I like this pickup. Anybody is better than Black heck I bet Mecca could line up and play better than that ****head.

As far as the contract goes knowing Carl it is cheap and backloaded.

Add to the fact Solari for the last 10+ years has done a great job with our O-Line so I trust his judgement here.

milkman
03-03-2007, 07:51 PM
I like this pickup. Anybody is better than Black heck I bet Mecca could line up and play better than that ****head.

As far as the contract goes knowing Carl it is cheap and backloaded.

Add to the fact Solari for the last 10+ years has done a great job with our O-Line so I trust his judgement here.

I don't understand why Solari gets so much credit for the O-Line.

He hasn't actually been a teacher for the last 6 years at the position.

As far as I can tell he really didn't develop anyone.

I think credit for the development of Waters probably belongs to the Asst. O-Line coach that Herman ****ing Edwards let go prior to last season.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 07:56 PM
I don't know why you'd think that. Solari was the one responsible for FINDING these players. He also found Svitek.

dirk digler
03-03-2007, 07:58 PM
I don't understand why Solari gets so much credit for the O-Line.

He hasn't actually been a teacher for the last 6 years at the position.

As far as I can tell he really didn't develop anyone.

I think credit for the development of Waters probably belongs to the Asst. O-Line coach that Herman ****ing Edwards let go prior to last season.

I disagree. Solari is an excellent O-Line coach. The O-Line has been great with Solari here and in large part we have had good players but he has been able to plug some holes at times and the O-Line just kept dominating.

With him as the O-Line coach the Chiefs have ranked in the NFL’s top five teams in terms of rushing offense on five different occasions during Solari’s time with the Chiefs (’97, ‘99, 2002, 2004 and 2005), an even more impressive feat when you consider the club accomplished that feat under three different head coaching regimes and had five different running backs lead the team in rushing during that nine-season span.

milkman
03-03-2007, 07:59 PM
He may have found them, but he didn't develop them.

Fact is, the only O-Lineman developed in Solari's time here, to the best of my memory, is Waters, and Solari had already become more involved in game preparation than teaching.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 08:00 PM
This market is insane.

Minnesota Vikings: The Vikings signed former Giants tight end Visanthe Shiancoe to a five-year, $18.5 million deal, with $7 million guaranteed and $8.2 million in the first year.

milkman
03-03-2007, 08:01 PM
I disagree. Solari is an excellent O-Line coach. The O-Line has been great with Solari here and in large part we have had good players but he has been able to plug some holes at times and the O-Line just kept dominating.

But, again, not one of those O-Linemen were developed by Solari.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 08:01 PM
He may have found them, but he didn't develop them.

Fact is, the only O-Lineman developed in Solari's time here, to the best of my memory, is Waters, and Solari had already become more involved in game preparation than teaching.

I think you're downgrading Solari's influence just so you can villify Herman ****ing Edwards.

Miles
03-03-2007, 08:05 PM
This market is insane.

Minnesota Vikings: The Vikings signed former Giants tight end Visanthe Shiancoe to a five-year, $18.5 million deal, with $7 million guaranteed and $8.2 million in the first year.

Wow.

milkman
03-03-2007, 08:05 PM
I think you're downgrading Solari's influence just so you can villify Herman ****ing Edwards.

This has nothing to do with Herman ****ing Edwards.

This is only about Mike Solari.

I am only going by memory here, but I can't think of one O-Lineman that Solari actually developed.

I think he's pretty damn good when it comes to scheming for run blocking.

I just don't know that he is a good teacher.

Bill Parcells
03-03-2007, 08:05 PM
This market is insane.

Minnesota Vikings: The Vikings signed former Giants tight end Visanthe Shiancoe to a five-year, $18.5 million deal, with $7 million guaranteed and $8.2 million in the first year.
Really..look at Thomas's deal with the Pats..cheap.

Adalius Thomas' contract with the Patriots is worth $37.5 million.
He's signed through 2012 and gets $24 million in the first three years. Before free agency began, it had been reported that Thomas was looking for a three-year, $15 million deal that paid $10-12 million up front.

dirk digler
03-03-2007, 08:06 PM
We will just have to agree to disagree milkman. Solari may suck as an O-coordinator but he is a great O-Line coach.

bringbackmarty
03-03-2007, 08:44 PM
What do we think Fraley is gonna go for?
First 30 Million dollar center.

milkman
03-03-2007, 08:50 PM
We will just have to agree to disagree milkman. Solari may suck as an O-coordinator but he is a great O-Line coach.

Name one guy that he actually developed.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 08:53 PM
Name one guy that he actually developed.

No one can really say what level of participation he had in any offensive lineman's development. This discussion is moot.

milkman
03-03-2007, 08:54 PM
No one can really say what level of participation he had in any offensive lineman's development. This discussion is moot.

Mike Solari, in an interview around the time he was promoted to OC, I believe, discussed the fact that he hadn't really been involved in teaching for years.

DaneMcCloud
03-03-2007, 08:56 PM
Name one guy that he actually developed.

Brian Waters.

Skip Towne
03-03-2007, 08:56 PM
Mike Solari, in an interview around the time he was promoted to OC, I believe, discussed the fact that he hadn't really been involved in teaching for years.
I wonder what he did as an O-line coach if he wasn't teaching.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Mike Solari, in an interview around the time he was promoted to OC, I believe, discussed the fact that he hadn't really been involved in teaching for years.

Unsubstantiated claims aren't going to win any arguments around here.

milkman
03-03-2007, 09:01 PM
Brian Waters.

I've already talked about Waters.

Solari was already involved in the O-Line gameplanning of the run game, and the teaching was left to the asst. O-Line coach that Herman ****ing Edwards let go prior to last season.

milkman
03-03-2007, 09:02 PM
I wonder what he did as an O-line coach if he wasn't teaching.

Working with Al and Terry Shea on the gameplans.

milkman
03-03-2007, 09:03 PM
Unsubstantiated claims aren't going to win any arguments around here.

I don't really give a rat's ass if you don't believe me.
I sure as hell am not going to waste time to find it.

It was, of course, posted here on the planet.

milkman
03-03-2007, 09:14 PM
And even assuming that I'm wrong, and that Solari did develop Brian Waters, that's only one guy in 10 years.

That isn't much of a track record to speak of.

Mecca
03-03-2007, 09:16 PM
I don't really give a rat's ass if you don't believe me.
I sure as hell am not going to waste time to find it.

It was, of course, posted here on the planet.

If you make an arguement on here that isn't in line or happens to be a little different everyone is going to act like you're dumb and wrong regardless of what facts you present....

Happens to me pretty regulary......

Basileus777
03-03-2007, 09:18 PM
Really..look at Thomas's deal with the Pats..cheap.

Thomas is a pro-bowler at an essential position...Shiancoe is a shitty backup tight end....

The Vikings are insane.

milkman
03-03-2007, 09:19 PM
If you make an arguement on here that isn't in line or happens to be a little different everyone is going to act like you're dumb and wrong regardless of what facts you present....

Happens to me pretty regulary......

I know.

HMc
03-03-2007, 09:23 PM
If you make an arguement on here that isn't in line or happens to be a little different everyone is going to act like you're dumb and wrong regardless of what facts you present....

Happens to me pretty regulary......

That's such bullshit mecca. There are a bunch of guys who present the non homer opinion here with regularity and don't get anywhere near the crap you do. Parker, Brock, TK13. Your problem is that you're so hell bent on being the anti-homer that you can't recognise that the chiefs can make potentially positive moves when they do so.

crazycoffey
03-03-2007, 09:26 PM
That's such bullshit mecca. There are a bunch of guys who present the non homer opinion here with regularity and don't get anywhere near the crap you do. Parker, Brock, TK13. Your problem is that you're so hell bent on being the anti-homer that you can't recognise that the chiefs can make potentially positive moves when they do so.


:clap:
It's tough reading so much negative comments on ANYTHING the chiefs do...

Mecca
03-03-2007, 09:27 PM
That's such bullshit mecca. There are a bunch of guys who present the non homer opinion here with regularity and don't get anywhere near the crap you do. Parker, Brock, TK13. Your problem is that you're so hell bent on being the anti-homer that you can't recognise that the chiefs can make potentially positive moves when they do so.

LOL......Brock thinks Jared Allen is an elite defensive end, he's not a homer?

the Talking Can
03-03-2007, 10:03 PM
If you make an arguement on here that isn't in line or happens to be a little different everyone is going to act like you're dumb and wrong regardless of what facts you present....

Happens to me pretty regulary......

ROFL

poor Mecca.....poor martyr Mecca..... :deevee:

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 10:05 PM
Oh no, it's the Planet Party Line!

*gasp*

HMc
03-03-2007, 10:19 PM
LOL......Brock thinks Jared Allen is an elite defensive end, he's not a homer?

There's a difference between thinking one of the best 3 players on the team is indeedvery good and thinking that dante hall is worth a second round pick.Then there's you, who thinks we're overpaying anyone who's not playing for sonic vouchers.

go bowe
03-03-2007, 10:19 PM
I hope that's a joke.......a 6 year contract for another scrub....another scrub?

did you read the article?

he's been the starter at lt for more than one team...

he might not be willie roaf but he's got to be better than what we have now...

an actual nfl lt... PBJ PBJ PBJ PBJ PBJ

i'm getting stoked again and it's not even april yet...

Simply Red
03-03-2007, 10:22 PM
I hope that's a joke.......a 6 year contract for another scrub....

Why? Chiefs mgmt. personnel do not tell you how to eat babies, try to return the favor.

shaneo69
03-03-2007, 10:55 PM
I can't wait for the reaction here once the agent leaks the financial details of this contract.

Of course, the homers are going to dispute the actual amount of guaranteed money that the agent claims they're getting. And since Carl refuses to disclose contract terms, it will be an easy argument for the homers to make.

Since LT's are more important than OG's, and since we signed him on the first day of free agency instead of waiting until April when players like Ron Edwards and James Reed are desperate to sign for anything, I'm guessing McIntosh's contract will be similar to the guards who have already signed---Dockery and Steinbach.

But of course, I'm just speculating here.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 10:57 PM
I can't wait for the reaction here once the agent leaks the financial details of this contract.

Of course, the homers are going to dispute the actual amount of guaranteed money that the agent claims they're getting. And since Carl refuses to disclose contract terms, it will be an easy argument for the homers to make.

Since LT's are more important than OG's, and since we signed him on the first day of free agency instead of waiting until April when players like Ron Edwards and James Reed are desperate to sign for anything, I'm guessing McIntosh's contract will be similar to the guards who have already signed---Dockery and Steinbach.

But of course, I'm just speculating here.

Well, I'm 100% certain I'm a "homer" in your book, but I just can't get worked up over contracts anymore. They almost NEVER matter. Every team and every player has funny money in their contracts, roster bonuses, incentives, and the actual value of the contract ends up being nowhere close to what we were told...

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 11:06 PM
What few are realizing is that we got a free agent in here and signed him before he left town.

How often has that happened in the last few seasons? Seems someone would get here and we'd always let them go somewhere else, and miss out.

Coach
03-03-2007, 11:08 PM
What few are realizing is that we got a free agent in here and signed him before he left town.

How often has that happened in the last few seasons? Seems someone would get here and we'd always let them go somewhere else, and miss out.

Teams don't let good tackles just walk. Hardly ever. Now, when a team with a bad offensive line lets a left tackle walk, it's a pretty good indication he's not that good, unless all of his previous scouts, coaches and personell guys were morons.

If you were one of the front office management, would you want Brian Waters to walk, given how talented he is at the G position? Normally, in this case, I would say "Hell no."

Why?

Becuase Waters is a solid G.

shaneo69
03-03-2007, 11:11 PM
What few are realizing is that we got a free agent in here and signed him before he left town.

How often has that happened in the last few seasons? Seems someone would get here and we'd always let them go somewhere else, and miss out.

You're right. This is quite a departure from Carl's usual MO of trading a 2nd rounder for someone else's disgruntled player and then giving them an open market money extension even after having exclusive negotiating rights.

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 11:12 PM
Teams don't let good tackles just walk. Hardly ever. Now, when a team with a bad offensive line lets a left tackle walk, it's a pretty good indication he's not that good, unless all of his previous scouts, coaches and personell guys were morons.
.

Again, Miami wanted him back.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 11:13 PM
Teams don't let good tackles just walk. Hardly ever. Now, when a team with a bad offensive line lets a left tackle walk, it's a pretty good indication he's not that good, unless all of his previous scouts, coaches and personell guys were morons.

If you were one of the front office management, would you want Brian Waters to walk, given how talented he is at the G position? Normally, in this case, I would say "Hell no."

Why?

Becuase Waters is a solid G.

Did you bother to read the article or the thread?

They didn't let him walk.

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 11:15 PM
Well, he's here, like it or not. Let's hope he becomes more than he was.

This is one rare occasion where I'd be okay saying "no, it's not exciting, but he's not Jordan Black".

I'm not sure who else we could get...

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 11:16 PM
Well, he's here, like it or not. Let's hope he becomes more than he was.

This is one rare occasion where I'd be okay saying "no, it's not exciting, but he's not Jordan Black".

I'm not sure who else we could get...

That's my WHOLE point.

He's not Jordan Black.

And as far as who else we could get, there's always Leonard Davis.

Let's see:

Davis? I-65?

I'll take McIntosh and force myself to like it, thank you.

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 11:18 PM
I'm not sure the reaction would've been any better if we'd signed Davis to a 60-million dollar contract with 15 up front...

We need more than one guy on the line, too. It's a sensible move, if not a very sexy one.

I don't like the whole wife-beating thing, though.

It's not Willie Roaf. Then again, he's not available this offseason, nor is anybody remotely close to that level. Sometimes you have to play with the cards you're dealt.

htismaqe
03-03-2007, 11:20 PM
I'm not sure the reaction would've been any better if we'd signed Davis to a 60-million dollar contract with 15 up front...

I know what my reaction would have been, which is why I'm pleasantly surprised with this signing...

Brock
03-03-2007, 11:24 PM
Did you bother to read the article or the thread?

They didn't let him walk.

They didn't put the franchise tag on him, so they didn't want to keep him.

noa
03-03-2007, 11:33 PM
From ESPN's rumor central:

Count Alex's Losses
03-03-2007, 11:35 PM
Moronic ESPN site. Warpaint would never make that mistake.

dirk digler
03-03-2007, 11:37 PM
I agree with Parker and Gochiefs I think this is a solid signing and anybody is better than Black.

I just don't know what Mecca expects the Chiefs to do.


Also the Chiefs apparently have also contacted Leonard Davis but from what I read he is asking for a ton of money

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 11:39 PM
Moronic ESPN site. Warpaint would never make that mistake.Yes, that bastion of journalistic integrity.




FYI, you can find entries for "bastion", "Journalistic" and "integrity" at http://dictionary.reference.com/

MadMax
03-03-2007, 11:42 PM
Teams don't let good tackles just walk. Hardly ever. Now, when a team with a bad offensive line lets a left tackle walk, it's a pretty good indication he's not that good, unless all of his previous scouts, coaches and personell guys were morons.

If you were one of the front office management, would you want Brian Waters to walk, given how talented he is at the G position? Normally, in this case, I would say "Hell no."

Why?

Becuase Waters is a solid G.



Umm Tait????

keg in kc
03-03-2007, 11:45 PM
Umm Tait????That's proving his point for him.

htismaqe
03-04-2007, 06:22 AM
They didn't put the franchise tag on him, so they didn't want to keep him.

They didn't want to keep him BADLY ENOUGH. That doesn't mean they didn't want to keep him AT ALL.

htismaqe
03-04-2007, 06:23 AM
That's proving his point for him.

1) We DID try to keep Tait. We just didn't try hard enough.

2) When we let Tait walk, we had one of the best lines not only in football, but in the HISTORY of football. We're at the opposite end of that spectrum now. ANY help is help.

jspchief
03-04-2007, 08:05 AM
How can any Chiefs fan possibly be upset about this signing?

Who was our LT going to be?

Black is a FA too. Would you have preferred we spend money to retain him? There is no LT that is going to be worth taking at our spot in rnd 1 of the draft.

Who did you expect to be our starting left tackle in 2007?

jspchief
03-04-2007, 08:08 AM
No one can really say what level of participation he had in any offensive lineman's development. This discussion is moot.A chiefs lineman said last year in an interview that Solari wasn't really a "teaching" coach. That he didn't deal with technique a lot, he more of an Xs and Os guy.

He basically said Solari didn't develop O-linemen.

FDS
03-04-2007, 08:10 AM
How can any Chiefs fan possibly be upset about this signing?

Who was our LT going to be?

Black is a FA too. Would you have preferred we spend money to retain him? There is no LT that is going to be worth taking at our spot in rnd 1 of the draft.

Who did you expect to be our starting left tackle in 2007?


McIntosh is just Carl trying to sell season tickets. What planet are you from?

PBJ FirstDownSamie PBJ

penchief
03-04-2007, 08:27 AM
You guys are f*cking morons, especially Mecca.

Dude allowed 5.5 sacks, had 3 false starts and just ONE holding penalty.

Compare that to Black (13 sacks, 3 holds) or even an elite tackle like Walter Jones (10.5 sacks, 2 holds).

I'm 100% sure that some of you idiots -- and you know who you are -- don't even watch football.

2005 wasn't too bad either (16 starts, 4 sacks and 1 holding).

Actually, that's pretty good. I wonder what Miami's schedule looked like that year. I wonder who lined up against him and how they did. Apparently, he didn't allow any single opponent to own him in 2005. If he did, he must have dominated everybody else.

tiptap
03-04-2007, 08:30 AM
We have needs all over. But if we are insisting on a running Marty ball type offense then it is the RT that is more important to the running game. If you can run to the LT that is dividends but what you want most is protection for the blind side of a passing focus offense. Additionally you want the QB to be able to fake well ala Deberg and unfortunately Green is not that QB. Finally this is the Dallas approach as well and as such it demands a big center that can take on defensive NT. I loved the game played by the 2003 Chiefs. That line was in decline with the lost of Tait but was still able to run to the Left because of Roaf.

Now the focus is on the defense. This defense needs a real DT presence, now. It is about personnel on that side ascending. Offenses have the advantage. This reign in KC believes that defensive play makes the difference. It is harder to have consistent effect but it makes the difference by this group of coaches.

This isn't a bad signing. It is potentially a good signing if the TE and H-backs don't have to help with pass protection EVERY PLAY. They could be freed up to catch short routes when teams blitz or 7 men in the box on potential running plays and you can audible.

It reflects the philosophy of the coaches. The question is if this personnel can make it work. I'm game.

jspchief
03-04-2007, 08:36 AM
2005 wasn't too bad either (16 starts, 4 sacks and 1 holding).

Actually, that's pretty good. I wonder what Miami's schedule looked like that year. I wonder who lined up against him and how they did. Apparently, he didn't allow any single opponent to own him in 2005. If he did, he must have dominated everybody else.He faced new England and Buffalo twice a year while in Miami. Those teams are normally in the top half of the league in sacks. The Jets weren't bad in '06 either. And he faced Pittsburgh and Indy in 2006.

I'm not going to make any claims about him being a great LT. He wouldn't have ever made it to FA if he was great. But the Chiefs currently have no left tackle, so we had to get someone. Better him than Jordan Black or an over-priced Leonard Davis.

petegz28
03-04-2007, 08:43 AM
Say "Hello" to our new LT you cry babies!

milkman
03-04-2007, 08:48 AM
The primary concern in signing McIntosh is the length of that contract, and how long he'll have to be kept on the roster.

As a fan, I want to draft players and get younger over the next 2-3 years, and I don't to have to hold onto a player because his contract won't allow it.

If McIntosh's contract isn't stifling, then it's a good stopgap signing.

jspchief
03-04-2007, 08:52 AM
The primary concern in signing McIntosh is the length of that contract, and how long he'll have to be kept on the roster.

As a fan, I want to draft players and get younger over the next 2-3 years, and I don't to have to hold onto a player because his contract won't allow it.

If McIntosh's contract isn't stifling, then it's a good stopgap signing.Who would you have had play LT for us?

You aren't going to sign anyone for a two year contract. At least not anyone remotely capable of starting at the tackle position in the NFL.

Regardless of how you feel about this guy and his contract (that we know almost nothing about), if you can't give a better suggestion for who our LT was going to be you really shouldn't be bitching. We have no LT on the team, and there are very few options. We had to get someone.

milkman
03-04-2007, 09:03 AM
Who would you have had play LT for us?

You aren't going to sign anyone for a two year contract. At least not anyone remotely capable of starting at the tackle position in the NFL.

Regardless of how you feel about this guy and his contract (that we know almost nothing about), if you can't give a better suggestion for who our LT was going to be you really shouldn't be bitching. We have no LT on the team, and there are very few options. We had to get someone.

I understand the limited options out there, and the limited options in the draft.

But depending on his contract, I would have gone Svitek and a kid that we might have been able to pick up in the second or third round in the draft.

Like most have said, we couldn't get any worse than Black.

But again, if his contract isn't a cap issue, then I have no problem with it.

Kerberos
03-04-2007, 09:29 AM
Moronic ESPN site. Warpaint would never make that mistake.

ROFL :LOL:


Yes, that bastion of journalistic integrity.

FYI, you can find entries for "bastion", "Journalistic" and "integrity" at http://dictionary.reference.com/


What the HELL would Warpaint know about "Journalistic Integrity" ?

:shake:

Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary

Main Entry: basŁtion
Pronunciation: ‚bas-ch„n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Old Italian bastione, augmentative of bastia fortress, derivative from dialect form of bastire to build, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German besten to patch
Date: 1562


1 : a projecting part of a fortification
2 : a fortified area or position
3 : something that is considered a stronghold : bulwark
–basŁtioned \-ch„nd\ adjective

.

jlscorpio
03-04-2007, 09:33 AM
duct tape is a helluva lot better than scotch tape...