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Logical
03-04-2007, 12:47 AM
This seems like the most horrible injustice to be foisted upon innocent youth. Denying a vaccine because of fear teenagers will have sex if they have access to a wonderful vaccine that can prevent an STD?

So what about it where do you stand. Is it a media injustice to blame Christians for fighting the vaccine?

Count Alex's Losses
03-04-2007, 12:48 AM
Damn. Everyone in the world should have cheap, free access to that vaccine.

Phobia
03-04-2007, 12:48 AM
Teenagers are gonna have sex with or without a vaccine. Why would anybody fight it? A vaccine isn't a license to have sex, one's genetalia is.

keg in kc
03-04-2007, 12:50 AM
I've never gotten the whole deny the existence of condoms and preach abstinance approach. I'm more of a "teach them to behave the way you want, but prepare them in case they don't" sort of guy. Call me proactive.

Logical
03-04-2007, 12:56 AM
By the way I tend to think that this is being unfairly blamed on Christians. I believe the ignorance is much more widespread than just one religious group. I think the Christian leaderships are just making a major mistake being so vocal on the topic.

cdcox
03-04-2007, 12:58 AM
I'm a Christian and have a daughter that is 16 years old and has a boyfriend.

I'm 99.9% sure neither she nor her BF are sexually active. I also don't think she will be promiscuous in the future. Still, she should get the vaccine because 1) people make mistakes (even good kids) and 2) there is no way of knowing the sexual history of whomever she eventually becomes sexually active with and 3) even if she does become sexually promiscuous, I don't want her to get this disease. Its not something that I'll rush out and make sure she gets in the next month, but yes I'd like for her to have the vaccine soon.

I don't think you can ask for a more honest answer than that.

Logical
03-04-2007, 01:01 AM
I'm a Christian and have a daughter that is 16 years old and has a boyfriend.

I'm 99.9% sure neither she nor her BF are sexually active. I also don't think she will be promiscuous in the future. Still, she should get the vaccine because 1) people make mistakes (even good kids) and 2) there is no way of knowing the sexual history of whomever she eventually becomes sexually active with and 3) even if she does become sexually promiscuous, I don't want her to get this disease. Its not something that I'll rush out and make sure she gets in the next month, but yes I'd like for her to have the vaccine soon.

I don't think you can ask for a more honest answer than that.

Excellent reasoning.:clap:

Guru
03-04-2007, 01:01 AM
It probably causes cancer.

keg in kc
03-04-2007, 01:02 AM
It probably causes cancer.HPV certainly can.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/HPV

cdcox
03-04-2007, 01:06 AM
HPV certainly can.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/HPV

Just a public service announcement to emphasize keg's good point for the acronym impaired among us:

the V in HPV stands for Virus, not Vaccine.

Count Alex's Losses
03-04-2007, 01:14 AM
A vaccine isn't a license to have sex, one's genetalia is.

LOL UNLESS YOUR GOCHIEFS LOL LMFAO ROTFL

Phobia
03-04-2007, 01:16 AM
LOL UNLESS YOUR GOCHIEFS LOL LMFAO ROTFL
Plus you live in your mother's basement and work for Athan. Three strikes buddy.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 01:50 AM
the HPV vaccine is a joke. it supposedly protects against 4 strains of HPV. there are hundreds of HPV strains and new ones are discovered every year.

GARDASIL is a sterile preparation for intramuscular administration. Each 0.5-mL dose contains approximately 20 mcg of HPV 6 L1 protein, 40 mcg of HPV 11 L1 protein, 40 mcg of HPV 16 L1 protein, and 20 mcg of HPV 18 L1 protein.

Each 0.5-mL dose of the vaccine contains approximately 225 mcg of aluminum (as amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate adjuvant), 9.56 mg of sodium chloride, 0.78 mg of L-histidine, 50 mcg of polysorbate 80, 35 mcg of sodium borate, and water for injection. The product does not contain a preservative or antibiotics.

that's a live virus suspended in amorphous aluminum. That isn't safe for anyone, much less children

SPchief
03-04-2007, 01:52 AM
Anybody have a link to some info on the stuff? I've never heard of this before.

HolmeZz
03-04-2007, 01:58 AM
This seems like the most horrible injustice to be foisted upon innocent youth. Denying a vaccine because of fear teenagers will have sex if they have access to a wonderful vaccine that can prevent an STD?

So what about it where do you stand. Is it a media injustice to blame Christians for fighting the vaccine?

I think the argument against it is that

1) they don't know if it does prevent cervical cancer
2) apparently the provider of the vaccine is in the pocket of the Governor of Texas

I agree the argument that girls will all of a sudden decide to have sex because they're vaccinated is stupid.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-04-2007, 02:03 AM
Most Vaccines are toxic and should only be used when having been exposed to what it "cures" and i use that term loosely. Vaccines are simply another way for the big drug companies to make a few extra bucks. So no it's not the Christian part of me that would deny it, it's the absolute BS claims, Human testing(yes your a guinea pig) and love of money at all costs that would stear me away.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 02:05 AM
Texas Governor Rick Perry (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/141164/hpv_vaccine_required_for_sixth_grade.html) made the vaccine mandatory for 6th grade girls.

Demonpenz
03-04-2007, 02:06 AM
i remember having sex as a teenager

ChiefaRoo
03-04-2007, 03:25 AM
The vaccine is a good idea. No brainer.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 03:39 AM
" The National Vaccine Information Center yesterday warned state officials to investigate the safety of a breakthrough cancer vaccine as Texas became the first state to make the vaccine mandatory for school-age girls. Negative side effects of GARDASIL, a new Merck vaccine to prevent the sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer, are being reported in the District of Columbia and 20 states, including Virginia. The reactions range from loss of consciousness to seizures. "Young girls are experiencing severe headaches, dizziness, temporary loss of vision and some girls have lost consciousness during what appear to be seizures," said Vicky Debold, health policy analyst for the National Vaccine Information Center, a nonprofit watchdog organization that was created in the early 1980s to prevent vaccine injuries." - Gregory Lopes, The Washington Times, Feb. 3, 2007


"Of the more than 25,000 patients who participated in clinical trials of Gardasil, only 1,184 were preteen girls. "That's a thin base of testing upon which to make a vaccine mandatory," says Barbara Loe Fisher, co-founder of the National Vaccine Information Center, an advocacy group that lobbies for safer vaccines.....Merck acknowledges that it doesn't know yet whether an initial vaccination will offer lifetime protection or whether patients will need booster shots. So far, the company has shown only that the vaccine lasts five years.....As part of its lobbying campaign, Merck has been funding Women in Government, a Washington, D.C.-based advocacy group made up of female state lawmakers....Merck declined to say how much money it has funneled into its lobbying campaign, or contributed to Women in Government. "Parents should be concerned that the only company that makes this vaccine is pushing behind the scenes for mandatory laws," says Maryann Napoli, associate director for the Center for Medical Consumers, a consumer group based in New York.....Mandatory vaccination across the U.S. would make Gardasil an automatic blockbuster for Merck at a time when the patents on some of its bestselling drugs are expiring and it's desperate to replace their revenue streams. Gardasil's sales in 2006 were $235 million." - John Carreyrou, Wall Street Journal, Feb. 7

Merck hasn't done any long term testing. No Brain(er)?

ChiefaRoo
03-04-2007, 03:42 AM
" The National Vaccine Information Center yesterday warned state officials to investigate the safety of a breakthrough cancer vaccine as Texas became the first state to make the vaccine mandatory for school-age girls. Negative side effects of GARDASIL, a new Merck vaccine to prevent the sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer, are being reported in the District of Columbia and 20 states, including Virginia. The reactions range from loss of consciousness to seizures. "Young girls are experiencing severe headaches, dizziness, temporary loss of vision and some girls have lost consciousness during what appear to be seizures," said Vicky Debold, health policy analyst for the National Vaccine Information Center, a nonprofit watchdog organization that was created in the early 1980s to prevent vaccine injuries." - Gregory Lopes, The Washington Times, Feb. 3, 2007


"Of the more than 25,000 patients who participated in clinical trials of Gardasil, only 1,184 were preteen girls. "That's a thin base of testing upon which to make a vaccine mandatory," says Barbara Loe Fisher, co-founder of the National Vaccine Information Center, an advocacy group that lobbies for safer vaccines.....Merck acknowledges that it doesn't know yet whether an initial vaccination will offer lifetime protection or whether patients will need booster shots. So far, the company has shown only that the vaccine lasts five years.....As part of its lobbying campaign, Merck has been funding Women in Government, a Washington, D.C.-based advocacy group made up of female state lawmakers....Merck declined to say how much money it has funneled into its lobbying campaign, or contributed to Women in Government. "Parents should be concerned that the only company that makes this vaccine is pushing behind the scenes for mandatory laws," says Maryann Napoli, associate director for the Center for Medical Consumers, a consumer group based in New York.....Mandatory vaccination across the U.S. would make Gardasil an automatic blockbuster for Merck at a time when the patents on some of its bestselling drugs are expiring and it's desperate to replace their revenue streams. Gardasil's sales in 2006 were $235 million." - John Carreyrou, Wall Street Journal, Feb. 7

Merck hasn't done any long term testing. No Brain(er)?

I admit I haven't studied this in detail. How did it get past the FDA if it hasn't been tested?

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 04:14 AM
they've done testing, they just haven't done long term testing. That's what is so off putting about state legislatures RUSHING to make this vaccine mandatory.

as for the FDA; It's a rubber stamp. i.e. prozac, zoloft, many other SSRIs (increased suicidal tendencies), Aspartame (discovered by accident, is a derivative of pesticide), Xanax, and Vioxx

Merck is the company that produced Vioxx. they pulled it off the market voluntarily after it was found that vioxx increases a patient's risk of heart attack and stroke. The FDA wanted the drug back on the market. so they did some testing and put a warning label on the product. they didnt change or improve the product in any way. they just added some small print on the back of the box.

htismaqe
03-04-2007, 06:30 AM
Should it be openly available? I honestly don't care.

But my kids won't be getting it anytime soon.

I'm of the opinion that there's a lot of "funny business" surrounding vaccine's, and this one seems to be no exception.

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 06:52 AM
Teenagers are gonna have sex with or without a vaccine. Why would anybody fight it? A vaccine isn't a license to have sex, one's genetalia is.Because if they're afraid of getting a disease they won't have sex! Especially something so relatively unknown! http://imgred.com/http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downs.gif

But my kids won't be getting it anytime soon.Congratulations. Preventing an extremely common virus that causes the fifth-most dangerous form of cancer among women is nothing when compared to vague suspicions of "funny business" about the whole vaccination process!

I mean, come on, nobody gets polio anymore! Why do we need a vaccine for it?

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 06:56 AM
as for the FDA; It's a rubber stamp. i.e. prozac, zoloft, many other SSRIs (increased suicidal tendencies), Aspartame (discovered by accident, is a derivative of pesticide), Xanax, and VioxxYou're an idiot.

Lbedrock1
03-04-2007, 07:01 AM
Teenagers are gonna have sex with or without a vaccine. Why would anybody fight it? A vaccine isn't a license to have sex, one's genetalia is.
eveyone should fight it because it is the start of a dangerous trend. Not the vaccine itself but how it is being force on the public. Merck has been contributing to the campaigns of those politicians that are trying to make it mandatory for all girls before they enter the 6th grade and the shot cost 400 dollars. This vaccine was rushed through the fda and they want to force it on people. We need to say no to this type of crap just so some drug company can make money. Capitolism is finding a need and fulfilling that need to make money not forcing your want on the people.

Mile High Mania
03-04-2007, 07:13 AM
Well, I think Rick Perry is a jackass that likes to look at himself in the mirror. Merck put some coin in his pockets and voila, Texas is the first state to pass this... how nice.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 07:50 AM
You're an idiot.

and you are an extremely trusting fellow. can you refute what I posted or are you out for an early morning (s)troll?

the link (http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/460/94/) between SSRI antidepressants and suicide

what to do if you are addicted to Xanax (http://www.addict-help.com/xanax-addiction.htm) Xanax is addictive and withdrawal is dangerous. A friend of mine (prescribed Xanax) nearly died while in jail. He went into a seizure and almost swallowed his tongue. that's a typical reaction for xanax withdrawal. Hell, he was only in jail (and off his meds) for six hours.

Coke & Pepsi banned in India because it contained unsafe levels of aspartame (http://www.newstarget.com/019891.html) and residue from pesticide. Aspartame has been banned in Japan since the '60s

Have you ever had ants in your home? just open a packet of nutra-sweet (http://www.mercola.com/blog/2006/aug/23/got_an_ant_problem_use_aspartame) and set it in the path of the ants. dont pour it out. just leave the open packet and leave it. all the ants will die inside it and you wont have to clean up.

All of the above are FDA approved. MDMA (aka ecstacy) was FDA approved untill 1984. it was often used for marriage/couples couseling. what is odd is that MDMA (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=MDMA+fda+approve) has recently been approved by the FDA again.

i dont think you have a clue as to what you are talking about

Braincase
03-04-2007, 07:52 AM
Listening to the radio this week, I heard about the story in more detail. There have been questions regarding the testing, and a more comprehensive and less expensive vaccine is near approval by the FDA. The whole thing stinks if you ask me. Looks like a money-grab by Merck.

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 08:44 AM
and you are an extremely trusting fellow. can you refute what I posted or are you out for an early morning (s)troll?ASPARTAME OH NOES

Simplex3
03-04-2007, 08:52 AM
ASPARTAME OH NOES
Phlebotomy! Oh noes!

Trepanation! Oh noes!

Radium Cures! Oh noes!

Don't worry, medical science knows all and you'll be perfectly safe.

Truthfully, though, I'd say you may have already had more than your share of experimental medical procedures.

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 09:01 AM
Phlebotomy! Oh noes!

Trepanation! Oh noes!

Radium Cures! Oh noes!

Don't worry, medical science knows all and you'll be perfectly safe.Yes, that's exactly my argument. We will never, ever surpass our current level of understanding regarding any sort of treatment for any sort of condition whatsoever.

Do you even know what aspartame is?

Maybe, just maybe, it's that Fishpicker might as well be talking about how afraid he is of the new world order and their chemtrails, because that makes about as much sense as those "awful" things he's using as examples of the FDA's rampant neglect.

StcChief
03-04-2007, 09:10 AM
I'm a Christian and have a daughter that is 16 years old and has a boyfriend.

I'm 99.9% sure neither she nor her BF are sexually active. I also don't think she will be promiscuous in the future. Still, she should get the vaccine because 1) people make mistakes (even good kids) and 2) there is no way of knowing the sexual history of whomever she eventually becomes sexually active with and 3) even if she does become sexually promiscuous, I don't want her to get this disease. Its not something that I'll rush out and make sure she gets in the next month, but yes I'd like for her to have the vaccine soon.

I don't think you can ask for a more honest answer than that.

4) Heaven forbid .... a Date Rape.

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 09:12 AM
4) heaven forbid a Date Rape.StcChief, making fathers feel uncomfortable since 2003!

Simplex3
03-04-2007, 09:17 AM
4) heaven forbid a Date Rape.
I especially like how you don't capitalize the first letter of the sentence but find the words "date rape" important enough to capitalize.

StcChief
03-04-2007, 09:19 AM
I especially like how you don't capitalize the first letter of the sentence but find the words "date rape" important enough to capitalize.

excuse me sentence nazi. I didn't review and haven't had my coffee....

StcChief
03-04-2007, 09:22 AM
StcChief, making fathers feel uncomfortable since 2003!

They don't need me to be for that....Plenty of no respecting others teens out there.

There have always have been, even when I was growing up in 60s/70s.

Brock
03-04-2007, 09:25 AM
Congratulations. Preventing an extremely common virus that causes the fifth-most dangerous form of cancer among women is nothing when compared to vague suspicions of "funny business" about the whole vaccination process!

I mean, come on, nobody gets polio anymore! Why do we need a vaccine for it?

The thalidomide kids agree with you. Of course, they're severely retarded.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 09:32 AM
ASPARTAME OH NOES
post #28

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 09:38 AM
Yes, that's exactly my argument. We will never, ever surpass our current level of understanding regarding any sort of treatment for any sort of condition whatsoever.

Do you even know what aspartame is?

Maybe, just maybe, it's that Fishpicker might as well be talking about how afraid he is of the new world order and their chemtrails, because that makes about as much sense as those "awful" things he's using as examples of the FDA's rampant neglect.

can i get a segway? how did new world order enter this conversation?

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 10:09 AM
can i get a segway? how did new world order enter this conversation?Quackery is quackery.

htismaqe
03-04-2007, 10:14 AM
Because if they're afraid of getting a disease they won't have sex! Especially something so relatively unknown! http://imgred.com/http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downs.gif

Congratulations. Preventing an extremely common virus that causes the fifth-most dangerous form of cancer among women is nothing when compared to vague suspicions of "funny business" about the whole vaccination process!

I mean, come on, nobody gets polio anymore! Why do we need a vaccine for it?

You explain to me how a 3 and 5-year old get an STD and maybe, just maybe, I'll think you're less of a moron.

Al Bundy
03-04-2007, 10:16 AM
I'm a Christian and have a daughter that is 16 years old and has a boyfriend.

I'm 99.9% sure neither she nor her BF are sexually active. I also don't think she will be promiscuous in the future. Still, she should get the vaccine because 1) people make mistakes (even good kids) and 2) there is no way of knowing the sexual history of whomever she eventually becomes sexually active with and 3) even if she does become sexually promiscuous, I don't want her to get this disease. Its not something that I'll rush out and make sure she gets in the next month, but yes I'd like for her to have the vaccine soon.

I don't think you can ask for a more honest answer than that.

Perfect, actually. You teach them the best way you know and hopefully, they make the right decisions. You get a pos rep for that my friend.

crazycoffey
03-04-2007, 10:20 AM
I'm not against medicine and people making the choice they think best suits thier situations.


I wouldn't give it to my kids yet, not because I think it would give them the right or will to have sex, (Lord knows the greater percent of teenagers for many years have had the hormonial pull on that door without out christian guilt, or social acceptance) but because it's too early in the process, we don't know enough about it yet, it doesn't cure all the KNOWN strands even, let alone the new strands that occur today and tomorrow.

But more importantly than anything else, I know that Merck is a company and this is a marketing ploy, to make money, and that always worries me about new "fantasy, cure all" drugs.

Adept Havelock
03-04-2007, 10:21 AM
Most Vaccines are toxic and should only be used when having been exposed to what it "cures" and i use that term loosely.

IIRC, most vaccines are only effective if given before exposure. They are a preventative, not a cure.

DenverChief
03-04-2007, 10:21 AM
the HPV vaccine is a joke. it supposedly protects against 4 strains of HPV. there are hundreds of HPV strains and new ones are discovered every year.

GARDASIL is a sterile preparation for intramuscular administration. Each 0.5-mL dose contains approximately 20 mcg of HPV 6 L1 protein, 40 mcg of HPV 11 L1 protein, 40 mcg of HPV 16 L1 protein, and 20 mcg of HPV 18 L1 protein.

Each 0.5-mL dose of the vaccine contains approximately 225 mcg of aluminum (as amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate adjuvant), 9.56 mg of sodium chloride, 0.78 mg of L-histidine, 50 mcg of polysorbate 80, 35 mcg of sodium borate, and water for injection. The product does not contain a preservative or antibiotics.

that's a live virus suspended in amorphous aluminum. That isn't safe for anyone, much less children

You must work for the FDA? CDC? STFU

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 10:28 AM
You explain to me how a 3 and 5-year old get an STD and maybe, just maybe, I'll think you're less of a moron.No one's suggesting a 5-year-old is going to get HPV in the near future, and the good news for your kids is that we'll all know a ton more about how effective this is by the time they're at an appropriate age to get vaccinated.

Thing is, if they're ever sexually active (by which I mean having any partner whatsoever), they stand a reasonably strong chance of getting HPV. Even condoms aren't a failsafe when it comes to HPV. Whether that then leads to cancer is pretty much just a matter of luck, but if you have the chance to cut it off at the pass, why wouldn't you consider it?

The main problem I have is with viewpoints like Fishpicker's, which are founded purely on ignorance and paranoia. You can't just bottle cyanide and slip a few bucks to the FDA, no matter how much some nuts -- who are usually trying to hawk their own useless "treatments" -- like to squawk about it.

Using aspartame as an example of a dangerous FDA-approved chemical, or saying that SSRIs do nothing but harm (Wow, people with already ****ed up brain chemistries interact poorly with some substances designed to alter said chemistries? No way! I'm sure that has nothing to do with why there are so many different medications out there!); that sort of thing shows a fundamental level of misunderstanding of the entire issue.

DenverChief
03-04-2007, 10:30 AM
Have you ever had ants in your home? just open a packet of nutra-sweet (http://www.mercola.com/blog/2006/aug/23/got_an_ant_problem_use_aspartame) and set it in the path of the ants. dont pour it out. just leave the open packet and leave it. all the ants will die inside it and you wont have to clean up.



http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/antpoison.asp


Booyah!

crazycoffey
03-04-2007, 10:33 AM
http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/antpoison.asp


Booyah!







ROFLROFLROFL

:clap:

DenverChief
03-04-2007, 10:35 AM
MDMA (aka ecstacy) was FDA approved untill 1984. it was often used for marriage/couples couseling. what is odd is that MDMA (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=MDMA+fda+approve) has recently been approved by the FDA again.



For those with depression ...duh


I dont think you have a clue as to what you are talking about

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 10:36 AM
Also:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VCbU6BZlfgs"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VCbU6BZlfgs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

HolmeZz
03-04-2007, 10:41 AM
http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/antpoison.asp


Booyah!

YOU HAVE JUST BEEN SNOPES"D

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 10:43 AM
"Cervical cancer is no laughing matter. Get vaccinated. Now, where my peeps at?"

Adept Havelock
03-04-2007, 10:44 AM
For those with depression ...duh


I dont think you have a clue as to what you are talking about

I do believe he fancies himself a latter day William Tebb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tebb).

While I have some issues with the way Big Pharm is pushing these vaccines, I simply don't buy into the conspiracy theories bandied about by the anti-vaccination folks.

Lzen
03-04-2007, 10:44 AM
I've never gotten the whole deny the existence of condoms and preach abstinance approach. I'm more of a "teach them to behave the way you want, but prepare them in case they don't" sort of guy. Call me proactive.

That's the way I see it. I am now dealing with this issue with my 14 year old son. He has really gotten into girls this school year.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 10:54 AM
neither

here is an excellent article about aluminum poisoning (http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/library/article.html?ChunkIID=164929#treatment) from NYUMC's library

in short, from said article: Cause...Receive vaccinations containing aluminum.

Symptoms
Muscle weakness
Bone pain
Fractures that do not heal
Altered mental status
Premature osteoporosis
Anemia
Impaired iron absorption
Impaired immunity

Prevention
avoid the following
Antacids
Antiperspirants
Dialysate (the solution of chemicals used in dialysis)
Immunizations
TPN (total parenteral nutrition) solutions

*this is the best source I could find for any sort of independant research.

Brock
03-04-2007, 10:57 AM
From those nice people who brought you Vioxx....

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 10:59 AM
here is an excellent article about aluminum poisoning (http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/library/article.html?ChunkIID=164929#treatment) from NYUMC's library

in short, from said article: Cause...Receive vaccinations containing aluminum.

Hahahaha. That may be the most tenuous connection I've ever seen someone make.

Other causes:

# Eat foods containing high levels of aluminum
# Breath aluminum dust in workplace air
# Live in dusty environments
# Live where aluminum is mined or processed
# Live near certain hazardous waste sites
# Live where aluminum is naturally highSo be sure not to eat or breathe, everyone, lest you contract aluminum poisoning!

DenverChief
03-04-2007, 11:03 AM
neither

here is an excellent article about aluminum poisoning (http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/library/article.html?ChunkIID=164929#treatment) from NYUMC's library

in short, from said article: Cause...Receive vaccinations containing aluminum.

Symptoms
Muscle weakness
Bone pain
Fractures that do not heal
Altered mental status
Premature osteoporosis
Anemia
Impaired iron absorption
Impaired immunity

Prevention
avoid the following
Antacids
Antiperspirants
Dialysate (the solution of chemicals used in dialysis)
Immunizations
TPN (total parenteral nutrition) solutions

*this is the best source I could find for any sort of independant research.

Your internet cred is destroyed

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 11:16 AM
Your internet cred is destroyed

true. but look at the site. NYU medical center is legit. nothing gets on there without peer review

Mr. Laz
03-04-2007, 11:22 AM
sex is teh debbil

DenverChief
03-04-2007, 11:24 AM
sex is teh debbil

iscool just more 4 me

Cave Johnson
03-04-2007, 11:24 AM
The thalidomide kids agree with you. Of course, they're severely retarded.

htismaqe
03-04-2007, 11:35 AM
There's been talk here of adding HPV to the list of required vaccines for elementary education.

The doctors tried to guilt me into giving my newborns the Hep C vaccine, despite openly admitting that it would likely only last 8-10 years and wouldn't be effective at all by the time they're sexually active.

But by all means, let's shove more medication down them. It's perfectly safe.

htismaqe
03-04-2007, 11:37 AM
No one's suggesting a 5-year-old is going to get HPV in the near future, and the good news for your kids is that we'll all know a ton more about how effective this is by the time they're at an appropriate age to get vaccinated.

Thing is, if they're ever sexually active (by which I mean having any partner whatsoever), they stand a reasonably strong chance of getting HPV. Even condoms aren't a failsafe when it comes to HPV. Whether that then leads to cancer is pretty much just a matter of luck, but if you have the chance to cut it off at the pass, why wouldn't you consider it?

The main problem I have is with viewpoints like Fishpicker's, which are founded purely on ignorance and paranoia. You can't just bottle cyanide and slip a few bucks to the FDA, no matter how much some nuts -- who are usually trying to hawk their own useless "treatments" -- like to squawk about it.

Using aspartame as an example of a dangerous FDA-approved chemical, or saying that SSRIs do nothing but harm (Wow, people with already ****ed up brain chemistries interact poorly with some substances designed to alter said chemistries? No way! I'm sure that has nothing to do with why there are so many different medications out there!); that sort of thing shows a fundamental level of misunderstanding of the entire issue.

I don't really have an issue with giving my girl's this vaccine when they're 12 or so. But see my previous post...

Ultra Peanut
03-04-2007, 11:43 AM
I don't really have an issue with giving my girl's this vaccine when they're 12 or so. But see my previous post...Giving it to a student entering elementary school seems pretty useless, I would agree.

Fishpicker
03-04-2007, 12:24 PM
You can't just bottle cyanide and slip a few bucks to the FDA, no matter how much some nuts -- who are usually trying to hawk their own useless "treatments" -- like to squawk about it.
Using aspartame as an example of a dangerous FDA-approved chemical, or saying that SSRIs do nothing but harm

I never said the FDA were murderers. I'm saying this whole process is being rushed. they're not doing enough testing. mandatory vaccination is haphazard.


again I never said or insinuated that SSRIs do no good. Teens are at risk of increased suicidal tendencies. teens are most at risk when they experience improper withdrawal. If a kid decides to stop taking the drug and doesnt tell anybody, he/she is at risk of hypermania. Teens need to be monitored when they stop the drugs. A family tragedy or a laid off parent might mean a kid wont have access to meds that he/she needs.

In that case, should the state fund psychotropic meds for children? Pharmaceutical companies are generous with free testing but eventually they will want a return on their investment.

Groves
03-04-2007, 01:09 PM
I had a really good thought, but I can't remember it.

Demonpenz
03-04-2007, 03:06 PM
i remember the good ole days of pulling out

SCChief
03-04-2007, 05:05 PM
I am Christian, and I see no reason why this vaccine should be denied to those who wish to take it. While on the other side of things, I think it is just as wrong to force girls to be vaccinated for this as it is to deny it. It should be entirely optional.

I believe there is a reason God gave us the intelligence to design medical techniques and therapies.

big nasty kcnut
03-04-2007, 05:07 PM
I have no problem with it as long as it optional for girls not forced on to them.

DenverChief
03-04-2007, 10:51 PM
I have no problem with it as long as it optional for girls not forced on to them.


You must have foregotten about the "we know what is best for your health, ban smoking/seat belt legislating/ban trans fats", government/insurance company of the US of A ...you know if the insurance companies have a hand in it then it will be mandatory in 5 years....get the vaccine or you will not be covered for the type of cancer it causes...you watch....

noa
03-04-2007, 10:53 PM
You must have foregotten about the "we know what is best for your health, ban smoking/seat belt legislating/ban trans fats", government/insurance company of the US of A ...you know if the insurance companies have a hand in it then it will be mandatory in 5 years....get the vaccine or you will not be covered for the type of cancer it causes...you watch....


Boy I'm sure glad big corporations know what's best for me and take them decisions out of my hands...

mcan
03-05-2007, 04:02 AM
I think we all need to make a BIG stink about this stuff RIGHT NOW...


What, exactly are the odds of getting HPV, and what are the odds of getting cervical cancer FROM HPV? I don't think you're going to find an honest answer to that question coming from the drug companies. We're taking for granted that HPV and cervical cancer have a strong corrolary based on what/how many studies? Don't believe it's necessarily a fact just because a commercial with some girls jumping rope says so.


I don't trust the drug companies or the FDA. I certainly don't think it's a good idea to start shoving MORE drugs (even if it's dubbed a "vaccine") into otherwise healthy little girls.

mcan
03-05-2007, 04:17 AM
You must have foregotten about the "we know what is best for your health, ban smoking/seat belt legislating/ban trans fats", government/insurance company of the US of A ...you know if the insurance companies have a hand in it then it will be mandatory in 5 years....get the vaccine or you will not be covered for the type of cancer it causes...you watch....


Seat Belts = Non-invasive, and life saving. There is no question that seat belts save lives. Making them mandatory is a VERY small invasion of privacy, or conceat of personal freedom.

Anti-Smoking = Not there to protect the smoker from himself. It's there to protect the non smokers from both the health risks and the general OFFENSE of second hand smoke. It's akin to laws about public decency and noise ordinance. I like to go to a resteraunt or a bar and NOT be bombarded by something that makes me sick, the same way you probably like sleeping without your neighbors hosting a 2,000 person kegger at 4:00 AM.

Trans-Fats = The results are in bro... These things are poison. Sorry they were around for so long and we all got addicted, but it's time to see them go away for good. The bummer is that they aren't really going away, we're just changing the labels and the tests so that we can SAY they went away. The truth is, "trans-fats" aren't manufactured on purpose. "Partially Hydrogenated ____ Oils" are. Sometimes (by chance) those oils create "trans-fats." They are chemically POISON. This can not be argued. The arguement is how some companies claim that they have "no trans fats" in their partially hydrogented oil. The truth: They had none in their test sample in the lab. But, the oil in YOUR cracker/oreo/twinkie/etc... might be chalk full of em, you never know. It happens by chance. Your first cracker could be 100% trans, and the rest of them might not have any. Even though it says "no trans fats" on the label. I only wish we had an FDA that would crack down on this and make sure there weren't any poisons in our food, but alas, it's not happening.

chagrin
03-05-2007, 06:20 AM
the HPV vaccine is a joke. it supposedly protects against 4 strains of HPV. there are hundreds of HPV strains and new ones are discovered every year.

GARDASIL is a sterile preparation for intramuscular administration. Each 0.5-mL dose contains approximately 20 mcg of HPV 6 L1 protein, 40 mcg of HPV 11 L1 protein, 40 mcg of HPV 16 L1 protein, and 20 mcg of HPV 18 L1 protein.

Each 0.5-mL dose of the vaccine contains approximately 225 mcg of aluminum (as amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate adjuvant), 9.56 mg of sodium chloride, 0.78 mg of L-histidine, 50 mcg of polysorbate 80, 35 mcg of sodium borate, and water for injection. The product does not contain a preservative or antibiotics.

that's a live virus suspended in amorphous aluminum. That isn't safe for anyone, much less children


Wow, at first I was going to say I have no problem with it, but Fishpicker has an interesting post here.

Illogical, I know you are trying to stir up shit, Oh I mean "be controversial" but the more interesting topic is about the vaccine itself, not Christians.

Braincase
03-05-2007, 06:49 AM
Listening to the radio this week, I heard about the story in more detail. There have been questions regarding the testing, and a more comprehensive and less expensive vaccine is near approval by the FDA. The whole thing stinks if you ask me. Looks like a money-grab by Merck.

I found the NPR story (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7543095), if anybody wants to listen to it.

jidar
03-05-2007, 07:41 AM
Holy shit.

Look at the paranoid idiots eating up the bullshit thier religious leaders feed them.

It truly is astonishing how blind people can be.

These people have been using and giving vaccines to their kids for years, they have seen how well they work firsthand. How many extremely deadly viruses have been nearly wiped out by vaccinations?

Yet we get some bible whacking, toe the line, listen to everything my religious leaders say without question idiots in here talking about how bad vaccines are and "OMG THE HPV VACCINE CONTAINS A VIRUS!@#!!!" (no shit, all vaccines have viruses in them, that's how they work).

Sit down, drop your ****ing bible, and shut your ignorant ****ing mouth if you're not going to critically think about what you're saying first. Jesus ****ing christ.

htismaqe
03-05-2007, 08:37 AM
Holy shit.

Look at the paranoid idiots eating up the bullshit thier religious leaders feed them.

It truly is astonishing how blind people can be.

These people have been using and giving vaccines to their kids for years, they have seen how well they work firsthand. How many extremely deadly viruses have been nearly wiped out by vaccinations?

Yet we get some bible whacking, toe the line, listen to everything my religious leaders say without question idiots in here talking about how bad vaccines are and "OMG THE HPV VACCINE CONTAINS A VIRUS!@#!!!" (no shit, all vaccines have viruses in them, that's how they work).

Sit down, drop your ****ing bible, and shut your ignorant ****ing mouth if you're not going to critically think about what you're saying first. Jesus ****ing christ.

Who are you talking to? Only a couple of people in this thread said they are religious/Christian, and one of those openly said he's not against it.

Iowanian
03-05-2007, 08:45 AM
Just to make sure others make an informed decision, it was nice of Jidar to show his pox covered Cervix to the board.

chagrin
03-05-2007, 09:44 AM
Just to make sure others make an informed decision, it was nice of Jidar to show his pox covered Cervix to the board.


Ouch

jidar
03-05-2007, 10:12 AM
Who are you talking to? Only a couple of people in this thread said they are religious/Christian, and one of those openly said he's not against it.


It was more a general rant.

That said, I saw at least one argument that the vaccine is bad because it contains a sample of the virus... a trait common in vaccines.

Then there are the arguments that the vaccine only targets a few of the 100+ HPV strains... nevermind that only about 40 strains are transmittable to humans and of those 40 strains the ones being targeted are the runaway leaders in infection rate and cause the lions share of cancer.

chagrin
03-05-2007, 10:17 AM
Then there are the arguments that the vaccine only targets a few of the 100+ HPV strains... nevermind that only about 40 strains are transmittable to humans and of those 40 strains the ones being targeted are the runaway leaders in infection rate and cause the lions share of cancer.


Really? Good info, damn I need to do more reading

jidar
03-05-2007, 10:18 AM
The message is clear, if you have sex God will give you cancer.

http://www.jwharrison.com/blog/2007/02/15/the-colbert-report-the-hpv-vaccine-is-bad-medicine/

trndobrd
03-05-2007, 10:25 AM
Unlike Logical's original question, the HPV vaccine IS available....right now. The bigger question is why is it necessary to make the HPV vaccine Mandatory for school age children?

The justification for mandatory pre-school immuniations is that measles, mumps, rubellah, etc. are all easily communicable in a gradeschool environment. An 8 year old with measles is going to present an immediate threat to every other kid in class. An 8 year old with HPV is not going to give it the rest of his classmates by sneezing in the lunch line.

It amazes me that people are so quick to strip away parental rights to choose what is best for their children with mandates. The irony is, these are generally the same folks who are usually outspoken about the big pharmacutical companies and their 'outrageous' profits. Merck has been particularly ham-fisted in their program of political contributions, and rushing this to market and making it mandatory.

It suprises me that a self described libertarian like Logical would be in favor of the state mandating people put things in their bodies.

htismaqe
03-05-2007, 10:26 AM
It was more a general rant.

That said, I saw at least one argument that the vaccine is bad because it contains a sample of the virus... a trait common in vaccines.

Then there are the arguments that the vaccine only targets a few of the 100+ HPV strains... nevermind that only about 40 strains are transmittable to humans and of those 40 strains the ones being targeted are the runaway leaders in infection rate and cause the lions share of cancer.

I just wanted to make sure. Because it was only semi-coherent.

And yes, vaccines contain viruses. I think most people know that. I DO think there is reason to be concerned about the content of vaccines, since they almost always contain a metallic suspension (ie. the link between the MMR vaccine and autism - the mercury theory).

Cochise
03-05-2007, 10:38 AM
Christians = de debbil

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 11:00 AM
Nobody should be forced to take any vaccine, period.

jidar
03-05-2007, 11:05 AM
Nobody should be forced to take any vaccine, period.


The libertarian in my agrees with you, but like all libertarians he's a little ****ing crazy so I try to reign him in a bit.

When talking about infectious disease, it's a bit more of a thorny issue since a persons choice can affect the people around them. Frankly, eradicating smallpox was worth ****ing with a few peoples liberty somewhat.

King_Chief_Fan
03-05-2007, 11:10 AM
This seems like the most horrible injustice to be foisted upon innocent youth. Denying a vaccine because of fear teenagers will have sex if they have access to a wonderful vaccine that can prevent an STD?

So what about it where do you stand. Is it a media injustice to blame Christians for fighting the vaccine?

As a Christian, i don't oppose the vaccine. Numerous things have been brought forth for the good of all only to be abused by some.

Vaccines don't drive teens to sex. With or without vaccines, they are doing it anyway.

Teaching (not preaching) abstinence is my preferred route. It worked with my children. (so I think anyway) Every indication is that they saved themselves for marriage.

Iowanian
03-05-2007, 11:16 AM
Nobody should be forced to take any vaccine, period.

VIVA LA POLIO!

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 11:23 AM
VIVA LA POLIO!

I still have to go over what I am going to do with my boy. The doctor Rina works for has not given his daughter any vaccines and she never gets sick. That's right, a young kid who never gets sick. Of course her diet is right on too. Rina has also had other parents telling her their kids started getting sick only after receiving vaccines, one has been diagnosed with autism. I have some serious due diligence to do here. I am not for big pharm forcing anyone to receive anything though.

Any feedback from parents who actually did their due diligence and have went down this road is greatly appreciated. Reading material, whatever.

Thanks,


BIG DADDY

Saulbadguy
03-05-2007, 11:29 AM
Should I stop drinking Diet coke, then?

What is worse for you, Aspartame, or sugar?

Iowanian
03-05-2007, 11:36 AM
I'm a parent of a daughter with a wife who has more than a 4 year in the medical field. Our child has been vaccinated for most things, including the optional Hep. I'm not sure I think this hpv thing should be mandatory, but I'll have to weigh the benefits of greatly reducing a common cancer for females for her. I'll be more comfortable waiting until its been out a while and she's older before making that decision.

As for the kids never getting sick without vaccines, I'd imagine the millions of children who died throughout history to diseases that are basically exterminated today due to vaccines might be a counter to that arguement. Send those unvaccinated kids to daycare through 1 winter and if they don't get a sniffle, pinkeye, RSV, rotovirus, typhoon diarhea and 2-3 colds....get back to me. Most of the parents I know who don't vaccinate, also home school and keep their children pretty sheltered from society and the normal germ factories like daycare, shopping malls et al.

People who get the flu shot, and then get typhoon diarhea think they got it from the vaccination...Ironically, thats from a stomoch virus, and the "flu shot" protects against respiratory Flu, which kills people through pnuemonia.

I'm all for educating myself before risking my child's health, and I've not seen anything with enough validity to have me risk my child's health to things like MMR, Polio, chickenpox and other preventable diseases that have been a scourge on mankind for centuries.

Saulbadguy
03-05-2007, 11:40 AM
Vaccines cause autism?

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 11:44 AM
I'm a parent of a daughter with a wife who has more than a 4 year in the medical field. Our child has been vaccinated for most things, including the optional Hep. I'm not sure I think this hpv thing should be mandatory, but I'll have to weigh the benefits of greatly reducing a common cancer for females for her. I'll be more comfortable waiting until its been out a while and she's older before making that decision.

As for the kids never getting sick without vaccines, I'd imagine the millions of children who died throughout history to diseases that are basically exterminated today due to vaccines might be a counter to that arguement.

People who get the flu shot, and then get typhoon diarhea think they got it from the vaccination...Ironically, thats from a stomoch virus, and the "flu shot" protects against respiratory Flu, which kills people through pnuemonia.

I'm all for educating myself before risking my child's health, and I've not seen anything with enough validity to have me risk my child's health to things like MMR, Polio, chickenpox and other preventable diseases that have been a scourge on mankind for centuries.

When it comes to flu vaccines the sickest people I know this year and most others are the ones who get the vaccine. I have had it once since childhood. When it comes to the medical field in America our docotrs have just become a by product of the big pharm. The mother of one of the guys I roll with in Jiu-jitsi was diagnosed with breast cancer 18 months ago. They took her to Mexico to a naturopathic treatment center. She was there for a year and now cancer free. I am becoming a bigger and bigger fan of the naturopathic way. I have just seen too many things now including reversing diabetes. I am making major life changes myself right now as well to try and get on the beam. I haven't drank in over a month as an example. I believe in doing your due diligence though as there are plenty of snake oil salesmen out there.

htismaqe
03-05-2007, 11:50 AM
Should I stop drinking Diet coke, then?

What is worse for you, Aspartame, or sugar?

Depends on which you feel is worse, rotten teeth and obesity or migraine headaches and muscle pain.

Both have similar effects on blood glucose levels and insulin production.

htismaqe
03-05-2007, 11:51 AM
Vaccines cause autism?

There is somewhat credible evidence to suggest there is a link between rising autism rates and the use of mercury in certain vaccines.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 12:11 PM
Vaccines cause autism?

Autism went through the roof as children have received more and more vaccines. Many believe this is attributed to mass amount of mercury in vaccines although that supposedly has been cut way back. Big pharm has spent a ton getting out disinformation on this subject however we continue to see sky high autism compared to the past. If you google it you will get a bunch of "this is all crap" information but visit a few autism sights and it changes real quick. I am not claiming to have to answers BTW, just pointing out the possibilities.

Rina works at a place with tons of exposure to people who have noticed she is pregnant. She has received a lot of feedback from them talking about health issues their kids have had only after receiving vaccines. I have concerns at this point. I just want to gather as much information as I can from anyone but people who have not done their own due diligence on the subject or have only considered the information coming from people sold out to big pharm.

Iowanian
03-05-2007, 12:14 PM
Remember you are in Kalifornia.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 12:16 PM
Depends on which you feel is worse, rotten teeth and obesity or migraine headaches and muscle pain.

Both have similar effects on blood glucose levels and insulin production.

Artificial sweetners are the most acidic products on the planet. Many believe that is the association between them and cancer. That's a whole subject unto itself though. If I must drink soda (like twice a year) I just drink it the one with sugar in it.

Saulbadguy
03-05-2007, 12:19 PM
Depends on which you feel is worse, rotten teeth and obesity or migraine headaches and muscle pain.

Both have similar effects on blood glucose levels and insulin production.
I just don't like sweet sodas, unless they are of the Stewarts or Jones variety.

I don't have any problem with migraine headaches (or headaches at all), or muscle pain. Then again I don't drink a gallon of soda a day like some people do.

Saulbadguy
03-05-2007, 12:21 PM
Autism went through the roof as children have received more and more vaccines. Many believe this is attributed to mass amount of mercury in vaccines although that supposedly has been cut way back. Big pharm has spent a ton getting out disinformation on this subject however we continue to see sky high autism compared to the past. If you google it you will get a bunch of "this is all crap" information but visit a few autism sights and it changes real quick. I am not claiming to have to answers BTW, just pointing out the possibilities.

Rina works at a place with tons of exposure to people who have noticed she is pregnant. She has received a lot of feedback from them talking about health issues their kids have had only after receiving vaccines. I have concerns at this point. I just want to gather as much information as I can from anyone but people who have not done their own due diligence on the subject or have only considered the information coming from people sold out to big pharm.
Autism went through the roof, yet cases of polio went way down. Well then...

Logical
03-05-2007, 12:22 PM
...

Both have similar effects on blood glucose levels and insulin production.

Where did you hear this, I know insulin dependent people and they are allowed to have as much aspartame based food and drink as they desire.

Jenson71
03-05-2007, 12:22 PM
I have just seen too many things now including reversing diabetes.

Reversing diabetes? What's that?

Saulbadguy
03-05-2007, 12:23 PM
Where did you hear this, I know insulin dependent people and they are allowed to have as much aspartame based food and drink as they desire.
Stay away from malitol. They give you the shits, hardcore.

jidar
03-05-2007, 12:24 PM
Seems like there is some kind of backlash against the medical profession.

I don't buy it though. It would be a different world if we were still dealing with the ravages of smallpox and polio, especially as densely populated as we are now.

Treatments have side effects, and in some cases maybe there is a 1 in 100,000 chance of the cure being worse than the disease, but overall we're all better off.

Modern medicine must be good for something, hell we're all living to be at least 70 now, we sure as shit weren't doing that in 17th century.

Logical
03-05-2007, 12:27 PM
...I have just seen too many things now including reversing diabetes. ....

There are two types of diabetes Type 1 insulin dependent cannot be handled homeopathically. Type II can, as the truth is it can be controlled in almost all people by losing weight and through diet. So yes homeopathic will work with it.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 12:36 PM
Remember you are in Kalifornia.

Their office is in Los Altos not SF. Major education and big time money. The average house/apartment there is in excess of a million. I don't think she is getting all this feedback because the people there are all wackos.

Cancer rates are skyrocketing over the last 50 years. We are doing something wrong. Medicine is no longer about preserving health it about treating symptoms. When is the last time in this world massively escalating technology has even one pharmaceutical company came up with a cure for anything? I want to approach it from a different standpoint. We have seen a lot of success already. My high blood pressure is now normal. Rina's which boarderlined on killing her and had us in the emergency room many times now is in the 140's over 90 while pregnant. She is drug free. They had her on every medication under the sun, all of which did not help at all. She did a 30 cleanse and went from eating so so to consistantly good to get that to happen. People involved in naturothaic shit are also some of the healthiest people I have ever seen. Health hair, skin glows, never get sick or have health issues of any kind. I want to live like that and I want my son to understanding and be able to pick that lifestyle if he so chooses, that is all.

Another thing I noticed is that older people on many meds tend to be much weaker and have more health issues than their counterparts who are drug free. Just an observation.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 12:37 PM
Autism went through the roof, yet cases of polio went way down. Well then...


Shoot yourself up dude, don't let anyone get in your way either.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 12:39 PM
Seems like there is some kind of backlash against the medical profession.

I don't buy it though. It would be a different world if we were still dealing with the ravages of smallpox and polio, especially as densely populated as we are now.

Treatments have side effects, and in some cases maybe there is a 1 in 100,000 chance of the cure being worse than the disease, but overall we're all better off.

Modern medicine must be good for something, hell we're all living to be at least 70 now, we sure as shit weren't doing that in 17th century.

We all need to pick a path. Neat thing about the path you chose is it doesn't require thinking, all you have to do is what big pharm says is best for you.

Braincase
03-05-2007, 12:43 PM
Here's the scenario:

Drug company A develops a vaccine to prevent a specific type of cancer.

A new vaccine, cheaper, and more effective against a wider array of cancers, is undergoing FDA testing. Not yet approved, but on the horizon. It has been developed by a competitor to Drug company A.

Drug company A has invested millions and millions on their vaccine, but when the new product is approved, their vaccine is worth ZERO.

How do you recoup your investment?

(The answer is pretty damned obvious people!)

Saulbadguy
03-05-2007, 12:47 PM
Shoot yourself up dude, don't let anyone get in your way either.
I won't get a flu vaccine, those are a waste of time IMO.

If I had a child i'd get all the routine vaccines though.

Logical
03-05-2007, 12:48 PM
Their office is in Los Altos not SF. Major education and big time money. The average house/apartment there is in excess of a million. I don't think she is getting all this feedback because the people there are all wackos.

Cancer rates are skyrocketing over the last 50 years. We are doing something wrong. Medicine is no longer about preserving health it about treating symptoms. When is the last time in this world massively escalating technology has even one pharmaceutical company came up with a cure for anything? I want to approach it from a different standpoint. We have seen a lot of success already. My high blood pressure is now normal. Rina's which boarderlined on killing her and had us in the emergency room many times now is in the 140's over 90 while pregnant. She is drug free. They had her on every medication under the sun, all of which did not help at all. She did a 30 cleanse and went from eating so so to consistantly good to get that to happen. People involved in naturothaic shit are also some of the healthiest people I have ever seen. Health hair, skin glows, never get sick or have health issues of any kind. I want to live like that and I want my son to understanding and be able to pick that lifestyle if he so chooses, that is all.

Another thing I noticed is that older people on many meds tend to be much weaker and have more health issues than their counterparts who are drug free. Just an observation.

Troy

To be more accurate Cancer diagnosis is skyrocketing. It is hard to be certain if the rates of cancer are actually increasing or just the ability to diagnose all the different types that are out there. Many of the deaths attributed to age were probably cancer related in the 60s ande earlier but they did not have the sophisticated methods for diagnosing them. I could say they did not have the means for treatment but in effect they still don't. When it comes to cancer treatment we are still in the leeches stage of medical knowledge.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 12:59 PM
FDA

http://www.newstarget.com/020783.html

Former U.S. Food and Drug Administration commissioner Lester Crawford is set to plead guilty today to charges of filing false financial disclosure forms and conflicts of interest, according to court papers filed yesterday by the Justice Department.

http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/030808.php

Straight up scary

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 01:22 PM
Troy

To be more accurate Cancer diagnosis is skyrocketing. It is hard to be certain if the rates of cancer are actually increasing or just the ability to diagnose all the different types that are out there. Many of the deaths attributed to age were probably cancer related in the 60s ande earlier but they did not have the sophisticated methods for diagnosing them. I could say they did not have the means for treatment but in effect they still don't. When it comes to cancer treatment we are still in the leeches stage of medical knowledge.

Are you guessing or is that a fact? Personally I don't know but there is a lot out there.

http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/cancer_rates_rise_50_percent.shtml

Rise in cancer rate was real, study found Dartmouth Medical School

http://dartmed.dartmouth.edu/spring05/html/disc_cancer.php

Data from National Statistics show that the incidence of cancer has risen by around 20% in men and 30% in women since 1970.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1192952.stm


On another note Lipitor the biggest selling drug in the world and has all kinds of problems associated with it including shutting down you bodies ability to create Q-10 and making you exercise intollerant. They don't tell you that when you start taking it.

Like I said we all have choices and it should remain that way. I am really going to try and go the way of the naturopaths as they are the healthiest people I know. Most of the damage I did to myself in life is associated with very heavy drinking. Those days are long gone now. My hope is the damage I have done up till now is somewhat reversable. Naturopaths believe cancer is nothing more than a symptom of your immunity system breaking down. Asking pops about lifestyles and his friends tends to confirm that to some degree. All his heavy drinking buddies post 70 have had or currently have cancer. That's not the case with the others. It was something he pointed out to me when he was at Cleveland Clinic.

Jenson71
03-05-2007, 01:32 PM
I don't know very much about cancer or it's rise. But Big Daddy, one of your sources states what Logical was saying: "The report says that part of the recorded increase may simply be due to better detection of cases."

Also, diabetes is not reversible. I'm 99.9% sure of that. So if someone tells you they HAD it, but now it's gone - they're just ignorant or lying.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 01:43 PM
I don't know very much about cancer or it's rise. But Big Daddy, one of your sources states what Logical was saying: "The report says that part of the recorded increase may simply be due to better detection of cases."

Also, diabetes is not reversible. I'm 99.9% sure of that. So if someone tells you they HAD it, but now it's gone - they're just ignorant or lying.

That's simply not true. Like I said, ya all do what you want to do and I will do the same. Nobody should dictate to me and mine what we should do though.

Garcia Bronco
03-05-2007, 02:26 PM
If no longitutinal study has been performed on this then it should not be administered to anyone...especially kids. The govenror of Texas is acting very irresponsibly and should be removed from office and shot in the head.

Logical
03-05-2007, 02:40 PM
Are you guessing or is that a fact? Personally I don't know but there is a lot out there.
....Neither, like you I don't know either. I do know for a fact the ability to diagnose cancer has increased 100 fold in the last 20 years. So it does not take a great leap in logic to assume we know more people have it today than we did in the past. If we did not know they had it, it is difficult to ascertain whether it's incidence has actually increased.

Personally I don't give two shits, becasue if I get cancer I refuse to be treated other than for the pain.

Logical
03-05-2007, 02:42 PM
That's simply not true. Like I said, ya all do what you want to do and I will do the same. Nobody should dictate to me and mine what we should do though.Big Daddy did you read my earlier response to you on diabetes?

Iowanian
03-05-2007, 02:58 PM
Bigdaddy.

One thing doesn't quite click with me.

Most of the healthy people I know, don't take medications....because they're healthy. Most of the people I know who have health issues DO.

You're suggesting that the healthy people you know eat right and dont' take medicine? Makes Sense.

I don't think changing to an organic diet can correct an inproperly functioning Pancreas......but losing weight and eating better CAN correct Type II diabetes.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 02:59 PM
Big Daddy did you read my earlier response to you on diabetes?

Yep, I am not going to pretend to know a lot about it. I do know that someone from her office beat it though. I didn't ask whether it was type one or two. I only know two people with diabetes. One si my godson's mom with type II and is making the changes one step at a time. She is already off medication. It isn't important enough to her to make major life changes though. The other has type 1 and has no interest in changing her lifestyle so I didn't look into it. The person who said she beat it did a 10 day cleanse followed by a 30 day organic vegetarian diet with whey protein. 10 day clease again, another 30 days on that diet then a pre-cleanse followed by a 30 day cleanse. i didn't get into the details. I don't know what 10 day cleanse she did I do know the 30 day one though as it's the same one lil momma did that kicked the shit out of her high blood pressure.

http://www.herbdoc.com/home_1024x768.asp

King_Chief_Fan
03-05-2007, 03:00 PM
If no longitutinal study has been performed on this then it should not be administered to anyone...especially kids. The govenror of Texas is acting very irresponsibly and should be removed from office and shot in the head.

Lord have mercy..... I am agreeing with a Donkey fan.

BIG_DADDY
03-05-2007, 03:04 PM
Bigdaddy.

One thing doesn't quite click with me.

Most of the healthy people I know, don't take medications....because they're healthy. Most of the people I know who have health issues DO.

You're suggesting that the healthy people you know eat right and dont' take medicine? Makes Sense.

I don't think changing to an organic diet can correct an inproperly functioning Pancreas......but losing weight and eating better CAN correct Type II diabetes.

You obviously can't stay off everything if you have the wrong problem. There are people that just take medications for everything though. High blood pressure, cholesterol, depression, restless leg syndrome ROFL ect. Then there are those that refuse to take that shit and find natural ways of dealing with things whenever possible. That's what I am refering to.

For the record I see way more people getting the flu who got the shots than those that didn't. Another example.

Those that seem to stay off meds seem to age slower too for what it's worth.

Jenson71
03-05-2007, 03:39 PM
Yep, I am not going to pretend to know a lot about it. I do know that someone from her office beat it though. I didn't ask whether it was type one or two. I only know two people with diabetes. One si my godson's mom with type II and is making the changes one step at a time. She is already off medication. It isn't important enough to her to make major life changes though. The other has type 1 and has no interest in changing her lifestyle so I didn't look into it. The person who said she beat it did a 10 day cleanse followed by a 30 day organic vegetarian diet with whey protein. 10 day clease again, another 30 days on that diet then a pre-cleanse followed by a 30 day cleanse. i didn't get into the details. I don't know what 10 day cleanse she did I do know the 30 day one though as it's the same one lil momma did that kicked the shit out of her high blood pressure.

http://www.herbdoc.com/home_1024x768.asp

You can't beat it Big Daddy. You can only control it, and that's good the lady from the office is doing that. It's important she realizes she is still diabetic, and important that misconceptions are cleared. Once you have it, you have it for good. My mom works with diabetic people and teaches about use of insulin pumps. I'm getting this information from her.

jidar
03-05-2007, 07:12 PM
We all need to pick a path. Neat thing about the path you chose is it doesn't require thinking, all you have to do is what big pharm says is best for you.


Wow, that wasn't condescending or anything.

In all truth, applying critical thinking is exactly what I'm doing. Does medical science know everything? Of course not. Does medical science have a very good track record increasing our longevity, curing disease and generally improving our quality of life? Yes it does.

That's not to say that maybe there isn't something to some of these so called natural treatments either, but that medicine has been in use for thousands of years and people just kept on dying before their 50s.

When I was a small child I had chronic cholosteatoma in the middle ear. This is a tumor growth in the middle ear that often becomes infected. In poor countries, people who get this live in pain for awhile then die from the infection spreading to their brain, here in the US though they removed it through surgery and then rebuilt my middle ear restoring most of my hearing.

Now you seem to have some kind of agenda against "big pharm", maybe that's deserved. Greed and capitalism can certainly cloud the issue and I don't doubt that a lot of crooked crap goes on in medicine like any business, but the fact is if you double over with a heart attack in the next few minutes it's going to be a bunch of doctors who devoted their lives to modern medicine saving your ass, not some whacko with chinese herbs.

Braincase
03-05-2007, 07:21 PM
Is the fact that noone is reputing my take a sign of agreement, or has everybody just been fed up with my bullshit and put me on ignore?

siberian khatru
03-05-2007, 07:31 PM
Is the fact that noone is reputing my take a sign of agreement, or has everybody just been fed up with my bullshit and put me on ignore?

No matter how fed up I get with your bullshit, I'll never put you on ignore.

Alton deFlat
03-28-2007, 02:37 PM
Vaccines cause autism?

Autism Speaks: Will Anyone Listen?


Two years ago, Bob Wright, then president of NBC Universal, and his wife Suzanne founded the blockbuster charity Autism Speaks, (www.autismspeaks.com) after their perfectly normal grandson, Christian, developed the disorder and stopped speaking.

The Wrights could easily have kept quiet about it, like so many prominent families do, and hid behind well-funded walls of secrecy and privacy.
But instead, they bravely chose to speak out about a devastating illness that now claims one in 150 American kids -- 80 percent of them boys.

Since then, the Wrights have raised tens of millions of dollars for research, much of it earmarked to find the gene or genes that "cause" autism spectrum disorders.

While no one disputes that autism has a genetic underpinning, there is still a fierce debate over the potential role of environmental influences, particularly mercury, and very particularly, mercury in vaccines.

Many in the upper echelons of Autism Speaks have rejected any environmental hypothesis and insisted that autism is purely a genetic disorder -- though Bob and Suzanne Wright (and the organization itself) remain officially neutral on this crucial question.

But now, Christian is getting better, and that wonderful news could change everything.

Why? Because "genetic" disorders don't typically improve on their own. And little Christian, the child who inspired Autism Speaks, has started to speak again. Will Autism Speaks listen?

On Tuesday Christian's mom, Katie, posted an entry on Yahoo's EOH List (named after my book, "Evidence of Harm" at www.groups.yahoo.com/group/EOHarm) that minced not a word:

"I believe that Christian's regression and subsequent autism was the result of receiving 6 vaccines during 1 office visit at 2 months of age," she wrote. "He screamed for 12 hours and had a 104 degree fever nearly the entire time. His vaccines contained thimerosal," the mercury-based preservative.

"It is devastating," she added, "because so much of this is preventable."

Since then, Katie said, she and her husband took Christian to doctors belonging to a group called Defeat Autism Now, or DAN. "DAN Doctors" believe that mercury and other environmental factors are what triggered most cases of autism, and have developed a controversial protocol of "biomedical interventions" aimed at removing heavy metals from autistic children and trying to repair some of the metabolic damage they may have caused.

"He's definitely getting better," Katie told me by phone. "He was a very sick kid, with an extended gut and inflamed intestines. We couldn't do anything until we got that under control." But once Christian started to improve physically, she said, he also began to get better emotionally, mentally and cognitively.

When Christian's gut improved, his parents began trying other, still-unproven treatments like dietary changes (no wheat or dairy) chelation therapy (removal of heavy metals from the body) and methyl B-12, which could help restore a critical process called methylation - a needed tool for detoxification and proper nerve function that is apparently deficient in some autistic children.

"Christian is speaking now, though only when prompted," Katie told me. "His eye contact is returning, and his crying and tantrums have subsided." And she said, "His ability to attend has returned. Now he can sit and do his lessons and learn, whereas before he would just lie down and scream in pain, because his abdomen hurt so much. But he still has a long way to go."

Perhaps most heartening to Katie is that Christian can now tolerate being in close contact with his brother, something that used to send the boy into screaming fits of anxiety.

So how will some Autism Speaks officials react to Katie's statements? They could fall back on two recent, but highly inconclusive studies that support the autism-is-genetic paradigm, and continue to reject the environmental hypothesis. But I wouldn't bet on it.

To begin with, Autism Speaks is already funding research into environmental causes of autism, including studies like: "Genetic Susceptibility to Mercury-induced Immune Dysfunction in Autism" ($120,000); "Do Environmental Factors Play a Role in Autism? A Test Using Natural Experiments" ($80,000); and "Double Hit Hypothesis of Autism: Genetic Susceptibility and Environmental Exposure to Metals," ($120,000).

Secondly, an excellent article in the current issue of Discover Magazine (www.discovermagazine.com) provides a clear and detailed account of the hitherto derided "biomedical interventions" (based on the premise that environmental toxins like mercury sparked the illness) that seem to be helping Christian and so many other kids. Author Jill Neimark "really nailed the environmental factors argument regarding how autism is triggered," Katie wrote on the EOH list. "I hope more journalists follow (her) example."

And finally, some might ask (even in a Katie Couric kind of way): If autism is purely genetic, then why is the prestigious Institute of Medicine holding a two-day workshop in April called "Autism and the Environment: Challenges and Opportunities for Research?" And why, for that matter, is the National Institute of Mental Health funding a clinical trial of chelation therapy as a treatment for autism?

The Wrights' grandson is now, perhaps, the most famous toddler with autism in the world. And the whole world, including the world's largest autism charity founded upon his very diagnosis, should listen to his mom: "There is no question that I believe my son regressed into autism due to environmental factors," Katie wrote. "No question."

beer bacon
03-28-2007, 02:39 PM
I believe our children should be sterilized as the first signs of puberty.

BIG_DADDY
03-28-2007, 06:00 PM
"I believe that Christian's regression and subsequent autism was the result of receiving 6 vaccines during 1 office visit at 2 months of age," she wrote. "He screamed for 12 hours and had a 104 degree fever nearly the entire time. His vaccines contained thimerosal," the mercury-based preservative.


Don't bother. I have been quoting this shit for as long as I've been here and apparently anyone who thinks along these lines is nuts.

Calcountry
03-28-2007, 11:38 PM
This seems like the most horrible injustice to be foisted upon innocent youth. Denying a vaccine because of fear teenagers will have sex if they have access to a wonderful vaccine that can prevent an STD?

So what about it where do you stand. Is it a media injustice to blame Christians for fighting the vaccine?Heathen? Are you for the vaccine?

I find your statement to be reprehensibly bigoted, irrespective of how I feel about the issue.

It might be like someone saying, "N***er?, do you like fried chicken?

Totally stupid assertion with which to begin a serious discussion on the subject as it is arrogant for you to call out all Christians and presumptively paint them into a corner prior to them even typing a word.

Little wonder why I have found such peace and tranquility by completely avoiding this place as much as possible.

You see, you just want to stir up some chit, then sit back and laugh as you irritate people, or force them to take sides in a meaningless debate for the sole purpose of entertaining yourself. No thanks. I hope this helps you understand how I really feel Jim.

Sorry for the interruption. As you were Jim, you may continue your bashing.