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Mile High Mania
03-05-2007, 12:59 PM
What is the deal with Welker? What is it about Welker that is (a) worth the contract and (b) worth a 2nd round pick if MIA doesn't match?

<A name=378945>Patriots | Welker update
Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:29:38 -0800
Dan Pires (http://www.kffl.com/link/4), of The Standard-Times, reports the offer sheet the New England Patriots (http://www.kffl.com/team/24/nfl) signed restricted free agent WR Wes Welker (http://www.kffl.com/player/10224/nfl) (Dolphins) is a seven-year, $38 million offer, according to sources close to the situation. The Patriots (http://www.kffl.com/team/24/nfl) would have to give up a second-round draft pick to the Miami Dolphins (http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl) should the Dolphins (http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl) decline to match the offer.

Mecca
03-05-2007, 01:01 PM
Maybe they like that he can do like 50 different things.

Who knows they're also interested in Randy Moss.

Mr. Laz
03-05-2007, 01:02 PM
holy schnikey! :eek:


it's called people have too much cap room for their own good and it's making them insane in the membrane.


best to just avoid this year's free agency .... at least until late.

noa
03-05-2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah, he's a decent return guy and I'm sure Tom Brady could help him put up some better numbers than he did in Miami as a WR, but $38 million and a 2nd round pick is outrageous.

Mecca
03-05-2007, 01:04 PM
Hey he can also kick off.........and kick Fg's!

Mile High Mania
03-05-2007, 01:05 PM
I need Amnorix to talk about the greatness of this move.

crazycoffey
03-05-2007, 01:05 PM
Maybe they like that he can do like 50 different things.

Who knows they're also interested in Randy Moss.


I know, doesn't this sound so anti-Billy B.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/scorecard/03/05/truth.rumors.nfl/index.html

The Patriots have shown interest in dealing for Randy Moss. A source said Bill Belichick believes he could motivate Moss to play and that he'd have the locker room support system to back him up, thanks to high-character veterans like Tom Brady, Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison.
-- Boston Herald

Mecca
03-05-2007, 01:07 PM
Well.....worked with Corey Dillon he semed anti BB, they really need a WR so I can see why they'd be interested.

ck_IN
03-05-2007, 01:07 PM
The one that gets me is the supposed interest in Moss. I saw that halfway through a rep in the gym. I damm near killed myself.

If there's anyone who I couldn't envision playing for BB it's Moss. That HAS to be pure speculation.

Mecca
03-05-2007, 01:09 PM
Moss said in an interview he just wants to play for a team that wins now.....so who knows he might be a different player for them.

HolmeZz
03-05-2007, 01:10 PM
It's a poison pill contract I believe.

Wile_E_Coyote
03-05-2007, 01:13 PM
All the so-called NFL geniuses fall back to earth

Woodrow Call
03-05-2007, 01:15 PM
Belichick loves these types of hardworking, versatile players. He is a great return man and has turned into a pretty good receiver. Put him with Brady in a very good passing offense he could put up some great numbers IMO.

I would cringe if Carl did something like this but I have feeling it's going to work out for the Pats.

KevB
03-05-2007, 01:27 PM
He's basically the next Troy Brown for them. Troy Brown was an integral part of winning championships.

Undertaker #59
03-05-2007, 01:53 PM
It's a poison pill contract I believe.


That is the answer right there.

There is no way that the Pats are actually signing him for that kind of money. The offer probably has some stupid provision in it like if he plays 6 games in Miami in a single season he gets a $25 million dollar bonus. That way it makes it impossible for the Phins to keep him.

That being said, he has not actually signed any offer sheet yet.

OnTheWarpath58
03-05-2007, 03:26 PM
Not justifying it, but NE does have 2 first round picks. They must feel that makes the R2 expendable......

Mile High Mania
03-05-2007, 03:30 PM
Not justifying it, but NE does have 2 first round picks. They must feel that makes the R2 expendable......

It just seems a bit much for Wes Welker. If there is a poison pill aspect to the contract, nobody has found it. I am just thinking back to previous examples... weren't they made public?

OnTheWarpath58
03-05-2007, 03:33 PM
It just seems a bit much for Wes Welker. If there is a poison pill aspect to the contract, nobody has found it. I am just thinking back to previous examples... weren't they made public?

I agree, it is a bit much. I was just reminding everyone of the R1 x 2.

Maybe that is part of their thought process.

Maybe they just REALLY like the guy.

Who knows.

Undertaker #59
03-05-2007, 03:34 PM
It just seems a bit much for Wes Welker. If there is a poison pill aspect to the contract, nobody has found it. I am just thinking back to previous examples... weren't they made public?


No offer sheet has been signed yet.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

Receiver Wes Welker is visiting with the Patriots today at Gillette Stadium. In addition, a source close to the situation indicated that there have been attempts to spark conversations between the Patriots and Dolphins, opening the possibility that Welker could be traded.

Because Welker is a restricted free agent, and the Patriots are visiting with him today, it was assumed in some circles that the team would sign him to an offer sheet.

At this point, it seems the Patriots are exploring all their options.

While the Patriots could still sign Welker to an offer sheet, don't rule out the possibility of a trade.

Mile High Mania
03-05-2007, 03:43 PM
This could be wrong, but...

<A name=378945>Patriots | Welker update
Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:29:38 -0800Dan Pires (http://www.kffl.com/link/4), of The Standard-Times, reports the offer sheet the New England Patriots (http://www.kffl.com/team/24/nfl) signed restricted free agent WR Wes Welker (http://www.kffl.com/player/10224/nfl) (Dolphins) is a seven-year, $38 million offer, according to sources close to the situation. The Patriots (http://www.kffl.com/team/24/nfl) would have to give up a second-round draft pick to the Miami Dolphins (http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl) should the Dolphins (http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl) decline to match the offer.

Undertaker #59
03-05-2007, 03:56 PM
Yes, that is the same post as the original. It is what was believed over the weekend. But we have found out today from the beat writer's blogs that the offer sheet has not been signed yet.

Undertaker #59
03-05-2007, 04:12 PM
Pats acquire Welker
The Patriots acquired receiver Wes Welker from the Miami Dolphins today for undisclosed draft choices.

Sports Illustrated's Peter King reports that the Patriots will give up second- and seventh-round picks.

Welker, who enters his fourth NFL season, was a restricted free agent. The Dolphins had tendered him a one-year, $1.3 million offer and any team that attempted to sign him to an offer sheet would have had to surrender a second-round draft choice.

Welker, who is coming off a career-high 67-catch season, visited with Patriots officials at Gillette Stadium today.

Welker joins a receiving corps that includes Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, Chad Jackson, Kelvin Kight and Bam Childress. Veteran Troy Brown could also return, although he previously said he is taking a wait and see approach to free agency.

-----------------------------

So they did a trade rather than worry about any kind of poison pill contract.

Mile High Mania
03-05-2007, 04:18 PM
The 7th is essentially nothing, but I still don't get the giving up of a #2.

Amnorix
03-05-2007, 07:24 PM
The 7th is essentially nothing, but I still don't get the giving up of a #2.

You don't? That's because you overrate draft picks, then, in my humble opinion.

He's 25, so he's what? 3 years older than an average draft pick, but he's already a vet (so he'll help NOW, not in 2-3 years, like most WRs do (even very good ones almost always do nothing as rookies), which is something the Pats need.

Also, 2nd round picks are far from a lock to be a solid, contributing player. The washout rate for 1st round picks is very high, much less 2nds, and even the Pats have many examples of this. For every Deion Branch there is a Marquise Hill or a Bethel Johnson.

Welker is a high energy, very flexible, excellent slot man with good skills on both offense and STs. He's comparable, roughly, to a Troy Brown, Dave Meggett, or Wayne Chrebet. But again, he's 25.

That's worth a 2nd, easily, especially to a team that REALLY needs a freakin' WR.

The money was phoney money. Now that we traded for him, we'll sign him to a contract that won't reflect what that offer sheet was all about.

dtebbe
03-05-2007, 08:12 PM
What is the deal with Welker? What is it about Welker that is (a) worth the contract and (b) worth a 2nd round pick if MIA doesn't match?



He's basically an Ashly LeLe that can catch.

DT

Mecca
03-05-2007, 08:14 PM
You don't? That's because you overrate draft picks, then, in my humble opinion.

He's 25, so he's what? 3 years older than an average draft pick, but he's already a vet (so he'll help NOW, not in 2-3 years, like most WRs do (even very good ones almost always do nothing as rookies), which is something the Pats need.

Also, 2nd round picks are far from a lock to be a solid, contributing player. The washout rate for 1st round picks is very high, much less 2nds, and even the Pats have many examples of this. For every Deion Branch there is a Marquise Hill or a Bethel Johnson.

Welker is a high energy, very flexible, excellent slot man with good skills on both offense and STs. He's comparable, roughly, to a Troy Brown, Dave Meggett, or Wayne Chrebet. But again, he's 25.

That's worth a 2nd, easily, especially to a team that REALLY needs a freakin' WR.

The money was phoney money. Now that we traded for him, we'll sign him to a contract that won't reflect what that offer sheet was all about.

Are you ready for Randy Moss?

Amnorix
03-05-2007, 09:15 PM
Are you ready for Randy Moss?

No, not really. On that one I just have to rub my prayer beads and keep chanting "In Belichick We Trust"

:shrug:

Mile High Mania
03-05-2007, 09:20 PM
I don't think I overrate draft picks, but I also don't think Welker warrants a deal that is worth $18.1 million with $10 million guaranteed. We'll see.

Halfcan
03-05-2007, 09:22 PM
Thanks Pats for letting the Colts win the SB-I will never forgive you guys.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 07:08 AM
Thanks Pats for letting the Colts win the SB-I will never forgive you guys.

Can't say I was exactly thrilled about it myself...

jspchief
03-06-2007, 07:12 AM
So where is the Rufus/Gretz article about how good teams don't spend big money on FAs?

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 07:26 AM
So where is the Rufus/Gretz article about how good teams don't spend big money on FAs?

Would it help if I pointed out that the Thomas and Welker deals, together, are only a very few million more than the insane deals that the Browns paid Steinbach, or that the other guys paid that other guard (sorry, forgetting who) at $49M and $49.5M?

And that Thomas is less than half, and Welker less than 25%, of the nominal contract amount that the Niners signed Clements for.

Or, the fact that the Thomas contract represents less of the cap, as a percentage, as the Pats signing of Rosevelt Colvin in 2003?

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 07:26 AM
Hilarious spin by the Pats homer but Welker isn't worth a second and seventh. Period.

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 07:30 AM
Amnorix, that is indeed good spin on the Welker piece.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 07:34 AM
Hilarious spin by the Pats homer but Welker isn't worth a second and seventh. Period.


How many guys drafted at the end of the 2nd round, over the last X years do you like better than a guy who led his team last year in punt returns, kickoff returns and total catches?

And who by the way is 25 and a sparkplug of energy.

Finally, keep in mind that the Patriots are a team with very few weaknesses. Fix those few weaknesses, and we are not just in the Super Bowl hunt, but we are a favorite (especially as the super-talented Chargers have imploded on the coaching front).
WR is one of those weaknesses.

We traded a 4th round pick a few years ago to Chicago for Ted Washington, and won a SB with him manning the middle as no one else could for us. He WAS a key, and even though he played for us for one stinking year, I never regretted that trade.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 07:35 AM
Amnorix, that is indeed good spin on the Welker piece.


:D

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 07:37 AM
Ok ... comparing a trade for Ted Washington (proven) to a trade for Wes "who" Welker? You're going to serious pull something if you continue reaching like that. (heh)

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 07:41 AM
Ok ... comparing a trade for Ted Washington (proven) to a trade for Wes "who" Welker? You're going to serious pull something if you continue reaching like that. (heh)

Let me back up. Pioli and Belichick have won 3 Super Bowls in the last 5 years, been to the AFC Championship Game, losing in the final minute another time, and went to the playoffs losing in the 2nd round another year. 6 years, 5 playoffs, never a one-and-done, and 3 Superbowls.

What have you done to prove your NFL bona fides so you can tell me why they're wrong and you're right that they overpaid, or that the trade wasn't worth it?

Let me say this -- Patriots Nation, which has SEEN Welker play, and play well, against us and others, is overwhelmingly in favor of this. If Broncos fans think we got gypped, I'm sure I'll survive your disfavor. :D

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 07:43 AM
How many guys drafted at the end of the 2nd round, over the last X years do you like better than a guy who led his team last year in punt returns, kickoff returns and total catches?


The Dolphins. And catches aren't important as yards - 687. 10.3 ypc? Embarrassing. 1 TD? Haha.

You keep telling yourself it's a great trade.

jspchief
03-06-2007, 07:45 AM
Look at the Patriots resume. They are incapable of making bad player personnel moves.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 08:00 AM
The Dolphins. And catches aren't important as yards - 687. 10.3 ypc? Embarrassing. 1 TD? Haha.

You keep telling yourself it's a great trade.

What part of slot receiver/possession receiver, speedy little scatback guy do you not get? Oh yeah, and let's not forget he had mediocre QBs and an average-at-best (not even) offense to work with all around. Or don't you think he'll do a bit better with Brady than the Miami bozo QBs he's had to work with lately?

And he's a midget, like many Pats WRs. Name me the last Pats WR who had 10 TDs in a season anyway without looking it up.

Jesus...

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 08:01 AM
Look at the Patriots resume. They are incapable of making bad player personnel moves.

If only that were true. But I think they get a VERY STRONG benefit of the doubt in advance, due to their track record.

cadmonkey
03-06-2007, 08:01 AM
Why do I get the feeling the Wes Welker will only be a younger version of Tim Dwight? I love the fact that he can play a sh*t load of positions but the way people have been blowing this guy up here on the radio you would think he is going to single handedly bring us back the Super Bowl.

If we sign Stallworth or Moss (keeping my fingers crossed he wouldn't infect our team with cancer) I won't mind having Welker. But if Welker is our best WR pick up or Draft pick this year I will not be the bit pleased.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 08:05 AM
Why do I get the feeling the Wes Welker will only be a younger version of Tim Dwight? I love the fact that he can play a sh*t load of positions but the way people have been blowing this guy up here on the radio you would think he is going to single handedly bring us back the Super Bowl.

If we sign Stallworth or Moss (keeping my fingers crossed he wouldn't infect our team with cancer) I won't mind having Welker. But if Welker is our best WR pick up or Draft pick this year I will not be the bit pleased.


Welker is just a cog. If he's another Troy Brown, Chrebet or Meggett type, then we'll have done very well. If he's another Tim Dwight, then we overpaid, no doubt.

We do need a solid #1 or #2 guy to pair up with Caldwell, I think. I'd rather have Welker in the slot as the #3 than as a #2 opposite Caldwell.

Unfortunately, it seems Chad Jackson blew his ACL, so he's not likely to be helping us early in '07, if at all. :(

cadmonkey
03-06-2007, 08:13 AM
Welker is just a cog. If he's another Troy Brown, Chrebet or Meggett type, then we'll have done very well. If he's another Tim Dwight, then we overpaid, no doubt.

We do need a solid #1 or #2 guy to pair up with Caldwell, I think. I'd rather have Welker in the slot as the #3 than as a #2 opposite Caldwell.

Unfortunately, it seems Chad Jackson blew his ACL, so he's not likely to be helping us early in '07, if at all. :(

I still hate thinking the Caldwell in our #1 :banghead:

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 08:15 AM
Wes Welker... LOL. That's a Chief-type move, sending a second-rounder for that kinda production.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 08:22 AM
I still hate thinking the Caldwell in our #1 :banghead:


:shrug: Look at our SB winning receiving groups and you won't exactly be floored by the HOF resumes of them all. Teh Pats prefer a larger group of short-mid range guys who are quicker than they are fast. They just aren't going to spend either the high draft pick or the $$ needed for an elite WR.

Plus, perhaps they think, the elite WRs are often self-centered, team destroying headcases (Moss, Owens, etc).

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 08:22 AM
Wes Welker... LOL. That's a Chief-type move, sending a second-rounder for that kinda production.


Right, just trying to get a rise. I'm not biting. Please go find something more entertaining to do.

siberian khatru
03-06-2007, 08:32 AM
:shrug: Look at our SB winning receiving groups and you won't exactly be floored by the HOF resumes of them all. Teh Pats prefer a larger group of short-mid range guys who are quicker than they are fast. They just aren't going to spend either the high draft pick or the $$ needed for an elite WR.

Plus, perhaps they think, the elite WRs are often self-centered, team destroying headcases (Moss, Owens, etc).

And yet, John Clayton reported this morning that Belichick has a hard-on for Randy Moss. Clayton said he didn't think a deal would come to fruition, but still ... very interesting.

cadmonkey
03-06-2007, 08:51 AM
:shrug: Look at our SB winning receiving groups and you won't exactly be floored by the HOF resumes of them all. Teh Pats prefer a larger group of short-mid range guys who are quicker than they are fast. They just aren't going to spend either the high draft pick or the $$ needed for an elite WR.

Plus, perhaps they think, the elite WRs are often self-centered, team destroying headcases (Moss, Owens, etc).


I agree, but still...........Caldwell.......#1? It sometimes makes me shed a tear.

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 08:58 AM
Let me back up. Pioli and Belichick have won 3 Super Bowls in the last 5 years, been to the AFC Championship Game, losing in the final minute another time, and went to the playoffs losing in the 2nd round another year. 6 years, 5 playoffs, never a one-and-done, and 3 Superbowls.

What have you done to prove your NFL bona fides so you can tell me why they're wrong and you're right that they overpaid, or that the trade wasn't worth it?

Let me say this -- Patriots Nation, which has SEEN Welker play, and play well, against us and others, is overwhelmingly in favor of this. If Broncos fans think we got gypped, I'm sure I'll survive your disfavor. :D

Good lord.

Welker is a 3rd year guy... he had only 7 games with more than 50 yards in 2006 and no more than 77 yards in any game. The NE method of late is to get a bunch of "guys" at WR and see which one produces from week to week. Not bad, but again... the $ is a bit out of whack to me. If that is a hell of a deal for Patriots Nation, then cool.

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 08:58 AM
Right, just trying to get a rise. I'm not biting.

ROFL

You sure about that?

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 08:59 AM
:shrug: Look at our SB winning receiving groups and you won't exactly be floored by the HOF resumes of them all. Teh Pats prefer a larger group of short-mid range guys who are quicker than they are fast. They just aren't going to spend either the high draft pick or the $$ needed for an elite WR.

Plus, perhaps they think, the elite WRs are often self-centered, team destroying headcases (Moss, Owens, etc).

True, but I don't see a Deion Branch among the current group... no, not even the vaunted Wes Welker. I think Branch did well in one of those SBs.

Let's not act as if the Patriots only had "no names" in the SBs. I'm not suggesting those guys were Jerry Rice, but please... the SBs weren't won with a team of Welkers.

Bill Parcells
03-06-2007, 09:02 AM
:shrug: Look at our SB winning receiving groups and you won't exactly be floored by the HOF resumes of them all. Teh Pats prefer a larger group of short-mid range guys who are quicker than they are fast. They just aren't going to spend either the high draft pick or the $$ needed for an elite WR.

Plus, perhaps they think, the elite WRs are often self-centered, team destroying headcases (Moss, Owens, etc).
There are rumors that mumbles is going after Randy Moss for a 2nd or 3rd rounder..

What do you think about getting him?

Brock
03-06-2007, 09:04 AM
Seems like a pretty lame move. I wouldn't bet against the Patriots when it comes to player evaluation though.

Bowser
03-06-2007, 09:30 AM
Wes Welker... LOL. That's a Chief-type move, sending a second-rounder for that kinda production.

Please tell me you haven't just insured that we will send a second to Seattle for Jordan Babineaux.

jspchief
03-06-2007, 09:32 AM
I find a touch of irony in how doing things "the Patriots way" and not paying to keep Branch has resulted in them over-paying for Welker and courting a cancer like Moss.

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 09:36 AM
I find a touch of irony in how doing things "the Patriots way" and not paying to keep Branch has resulted in them over-paying for Welker and courting a cancer like Moss.

You're going to make Amnorix's head explode... look out, you're venturing into unchartered territory.

the Talking Can
03-06-2007, 09:42 AM
I find a touch of irony in how doing things "the Patriots way" and not paying to keep Branch has resulted in them over-paying for Welker and courting a cancer like Moss.

they'd have been in the superbowl again if they had kept Branch...

Brock
03-06-2007, 09:44 AM
they'd have been in the superbowl again if they had kept Branch...

For sure.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 09:49 AM
And yet, John Clayton reported this morning that Belichick has a hard-on for Randy Moss. Clayton said he didn't think a deal would come to fruition, but still ... very interesting.


:shrug: I can't understand the Moss fascination, as it SEEMS out of character, but given our success with Corey Dillon, I certainly would be willing to give it a chance. I can't argue with our being able to use a 6'4" fast #1 WR, that's for sure.

Tall, fast WRs with good hands are very, very rare. The Pats have shown little interest in paying for them in the past, whether paying means $$$ or with high draft picks. To get Moss would require both, I would think. Again, no idea what to say.

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 09:51 AM
Well, back in October...


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=149482&page=1&pp=15&highlight=randy+moss
10/10/2006

Randy Moss -- the only Raiders WR the Pats are NOT interested in...

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 09:52 AM
If that is a hell of a deal for Patriots Nation, then cool.


Nobody said that it was a hell of a deal. Just that the overwhelming majority of votes are ok with this deal, because we think Welker is a potentially solid contributor on both offense and STs, and helps to fill several pretty obvious needs. With Maroney being the featured back, we need a kick returner. He can do that. We need more good WRs, and he is one of those. He's young. He fits the bill.

Is it a GREAT deal or some kind of steal? No. Clearly not.

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 09:53 AM
Please tell me you haven't just insured that we will send a second to Seattle for Jordan Babineaux.

Don't know where that rumor came about but I don't see a chance in hell it happens and never have.

With Herm I feel we will draft well. The two questions I have are: (1) can we sign good players in FA to reasonable contracts (so far so good IMO), and (2) can we release garbage players with horrible contracts (Hicks, Sims, Wesley, etc).

It's all well and good adding some quality young talents in April but if they're playing side-by-side a bunch of trash like Sims it's all for nothing.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 09:53 AM
Well, back in October...


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=149482&page=1&pp=15&highlight=randy+moss
10/10/2006


Seemed true at the time, but as usual it's not easy to predict the inscrutable one.

Bill Parcells
03-06-2007, 09:57 AM
From what I heard from Patriot posters on another site..Bellichick got so pissed off about blowing a 21 point lead against the Colts that he is taking drastic actions..he was still whining about blowing that lead at the pro bowl..that's why they signed Adelius Thomas and are being so aggressive..and going against the Patriot Reign philosophy.

The Welker signing/trade I don't get..he's a decent kick returner..but to give uop a 2nd round pick?I don't know.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 10:02 AM
From what I heard from Patriot posters on another site..Bellichick got so pissed off about blowing a 21 point lead against the Colts that he is taking drastic actions..he was still whining about blowing that lead at the pro bowl..that's why they signed Adelius Thomas and are being so aggressive..and going against the Patriot Reign philosophy.

The Welker signing/trade I don't get..he's a decent kick returner..but to give uop a 2nd round pick?I don't know.

He should also be fine in the slot.

Ya, that Belichick guy -- he's going psycho. Lost his head.

Repeat after me -- Adaleus Thomas' contract is SMALLER, as a percentage of the cap, than Rosey Colvin's was when signed in 2003.

Undertaker #59
03-06-2007, 10:03 AM
Here is a list of the last 7 picks at the #60 slot.

2006 Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
2005 Kelvin Hayden, CB Illinois
2004 Courtney Watson MLB Notre Dame
2003 Tyrone Calico, WR Tenessee
2002 Anton Paleopi DE Nevada Las Vegas
2001 Andre Dyson CB UTAH
2000 Brad Meester C Northern Iowa


Is Welker really that much of a reach over these guys?

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 10:04 AM
Here is a list of the last 7 picks at the #60 slot.

2006 Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
2005 Kelvin Hayden, CB Illinois
2004 Courtney Watson MLB Notre Dame
2003 Tyrone Calico, WR Tenessee
2002 Anton Paleopi DE Nevada Las Vegas
2001 Andre Dyson CB UTAH
2000 Brad Meester C Northern Iowa


Is Welker really that much of a reach over these guys?


3 very solid guys there. 4 who I don't think I've ever heard of.

Mile High Mania
03-06-2007, 10:06 AM
Drew has a huge future...

Ok, I'll quit questioning the Welker trade. The defense is "recent history with R2 picks at that slot suck, so why not".

Bill Parcells
03-06-2007, 10:08 AM
He should also be fine in the slot.

Ya, that Belichick guy -- he's going psycho. Lost his head.

Repeat after me -- Adaleus Thomas' contract is SMALLER, as a percentage of the cap, than Rosey Colvin's was when signed in 2003.
Calm down Amnorix..I was just saying mumbles usually isn't this aggressive..here's a Ron Borges quote to make you feel better. :)

On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end.

This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.

- Ron Borges, MSNBC after 2001 Draft.

Undertaker #59
03-06-2007, 10:10 AM
That is one of the best Borges quotes right there. He just got suspended for two months for plagiarism. :)

Bowser
03-06-2007, 10:15 AM
That is one of the best Borges quotes right there. He just got suspended for two months for plagiarism. :)

Well after thoughts like that, his best bet was plagiarism.

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 10:32 AM
3 very solid guys there. 4 who I don't think I've ever heard of.

If you haven't heard of 4 of those guys, you really don't watch a lot of football.

The only one who doesn't ring a bell to me is Paleopi.

Btw, just listing the #60 picks is a little silly. What about the #61, #62 and a few more?

jspchief
03-06-2007, 10:45 AM
Tom Brady was available at #60.

Undertaker #59
03-06-2007, 10:49 AM
If you haven't heard of 4 of those guys, you really don't watch a lot of football.

The only one who doesn't ring a bell to me is Paleopi.

Btw, just listing the #60 picks is a little silly. What about the #61, #62 and a few more?

The whole thing is silly.

But here are a few more for ya.

2006
27 59 Jeremy Trueblood Buccaneers T Boston College
28 60 Maurice Drew Jaguars RB UCLA
29 61 Tony Scheffler Broncos TE Western Michigan

2005
27 59 Jonathan Babineaux Falcons DT Iowa
28 60 Kelvin Hayden Colts DB Illinois
29 61 Vincent Jackson Chargers WR Northern Colorado

2004
27 59 Sean Jones Browns DB Georgia
28 60 Courtney Watson Saints LB Notre Dame
29 61 Kris Wilson Chiefs TE Pittsburgh

2003
27 59 Alonzo Jackson Steelers DE Florida State
28 60 Tyrone Calico Titans WR Middle Tennessee State
29 61 L.J. Smith Eagles TE Rutgers

2002
27 59 Sheldon Brown Eagles DB South Carolina
28 60 Anton Palepoi Seahawks DE UNLV
29 61 Ryan Denney Bills DE Brigham Young

2001
28 59 Marques Tuiasosopo Raiders QB Washington
29 60 Andre Dyson Titans DB Utah
30 61 Shaun Rogers Lions DT Texas

1936
5 59 Tack Dennis Cardinals B Tulsa
6 60 Dick Smith Bears T Minnesota
7 61 Wally Fromhart Packers B Notre Dame

HemiEd
03-06-2007, 10:55 AM
The whole thing is silly.

But here are a few more for ya.

2004
27 59 Sean Jones Browns DB Georgia
28 60 Courtney Watson Saints LB Notre Dame
29 61 Kris Wilson Chiefs TE Pittsburgh



There you go, no way Welker is worth the Secret Weapon.

CupidStunt
03-06-2007, 11:42 AM
Point proven. There are some ridiculous talents taken just after #60.

Yet again: horrible deal.

Eric
03-06-2007, 11:50 AM
Welker is Oprah's little secret.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 12:49 PM
Point proven. There are some ridiculous talents taken just after #60.

Yet again: horrible deal.


ROFL ROFL ROFL

jspchief
03-06-2007, 12:58 PM
One thing we know for sure, unlike a draft pick at #60, a FA WR is a sure thing.

Sincerely, Randy Moss to the Raiders

BucEyedPea
03-06-2007, 12:59 PM
I haven't kept up with what's happening with the Patriots except what I hear from my brother in Maine. They plan to really spend this off-season per what he told me. IIRC, even use up the cap.

As for Moss...well Dillon was considered to be a problem too. It worked out.
Sorry to see Dillon go. I think he could still contribute s/g even if he doesn't get all the carries.

Undertaker #59
03-06-2007, 01:01 PM
I think the Dillon/Moss comparison is a bad one. They have both had problems off the field, yes, but as far as I know, Dillon never dogged it while playing.

BucEyedPea
03-06-2007, 01:02 PM
I think the Dillon/Moss comparison is a bad one. They have both had problems off the field, yes, but as far as I know, Dillon never dogged it while playing.
That's very true. I forgot about that.

Amnorix
03-06-2007, 01:09 PM
I think the Dillon/Moss comparison is a bad one. They have both had problems off the field, yes, but as far as I know, Dillon never dogged it while playing.


Agreed, that's the main issue. But we both know the Pats do their homework, and if we **COULD** get Moss and he **DOES** play with effort, then it would be a tremendous, tremendous upgrade at a position of need.

But that's alot of ifs, couldas and wouldas....