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Lzen
03-07-2007, 11:59 AM
By Tim Bisel
The Capital-Journal
Published Tuesday, March 06, 2007

Texas A&M coach Billy Gillispie took a shot Monday at the Big 12 on behalf of Kansas State.

"I'm really disappointed in the way that people are perceiving our league, and I think our league doesn't do as good a job as our competitors do marketing our league," Gillispie said during the Big 12 coaches teleconference.

"We're talking about a team in our league (K-State) that needs to win a game in the conference tournament and they've already got 10 wins? Are you kidding?"

Gillispie's incredulity stems from speculation that teams such as K-State and Texas Tech could be left out of the NCAA Tournament despite having 20-win seasons and winning league records.

Gillispie didn't offer a specific solution to the marketing issue, other than to say league officials should speak with other conferences about strategies.

"Why are we settling for a certain number of teams in the tournament when everyone else is getting more?" he said. "Nobody's playing better basketball than us, one through 12. I don't know what the answer is, but I know there's got to be a better solution than what it appears we have."

Big 12 commissioner Kevin Weiberg says he understands such frustrations, even shares them, but he also insists the league is doing everything it can to promote teams for postseason play.

Weiberg said the conference markets teams by increasing television exposures Big 12 teams played 35 games on ESPN or ESPN2 and eight games on CBS or ABC this season and through the efforts of John Underwood, the associate commissioner for basketball, and the media relations staff.

He also cited the conference's recently negotiated series with the Pac-10 as a successful marketing venture and noted that the league provides NCAA committee members with a "blizzard of information."

"I really think in the Big 12 we do a lot to promote basketball," Weiberg said. "I think the effort we put into it is a good one."

But is it good enough?

This season, the Big 12 was both memorable and marketable for a number reasons.

Texas' Kevin Durant turned in one of the finest season-long performances in the history of college basketball, and Texas A&M's Acie Law wasn't far behind. Tech's Bob Knight became the winningest coach in Division I. Kansas positioned itself for a No. 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament. K-State made a splash with the hiring of coach Bob Huggins, who immediately restored credibility in a program that hasn't reached the NCAA since 1996.

"You've got so many things that you can sell as a league," KU coach Bill Self said. "But now, all of a sudden, it's, 'Well, is our league that good?'"

With NCAA invitations five days from being awarded, only three Big 12 teams KU, A&M and Texas are considered locks to reach the field of 65. A fourth bid likely will be extended to Tech or K-State, but perhaps not both.

That thought leaves league coaches dumbfounded.

"From a coach's perspective, why would K-State still be considered on the bubble by the so-called experts?" Self asked. "And I'm not the biggest K-State fan in the state.

"People saying that K-State's on the bubble, that's a ridiculous statement. If that is because of marketability, I don't know what we can do. But it certainly seems you have the so-called experts saying a lot better things about other leagues than ours, despite teams with very similar resumes."

Coaches cite a number of reasons why at least five Big 12 teams deserve NCAA bids.

The conference features two teams (KU and A&M) that are ranked among the top 10 and likely to receive No. 1 or No. 2 seeds at the NCAA tourney.

For the first time in Big 12 history, six teams posted 20-win seasons. KU led the way with a 27-4 record and was followed by A&M at 25-5, Texas at 22-8, K-State at 21-10, Tech at 20-11 and Oklahoma State at 20-10.

Finally, there's the rub that other conferences, most notably the ACC and Big East, could receive as many as seven or eight NCAA spots.

"Let those people come in this league and go play (on the road) if they think it's so easy," K-State's Huggins said. "This is a hard league. I'd line our league up against them."

Weiberg agreed, saying the conference "is clearly one of the top five or six in the country."

Unfortunately, it isn't recognized that way. According to statistician Ken Pomeroy and others, the Big 12 ranks as the country's seventh-best league in terms of RPI, behind the ACC, SEC, Pac-10, Big Ten, Big East and Missouri Valley.

Much of that results from the conference's poor showing in the nonconference. With six new coaches taking over programs, several teams struggled early before adjusting to new systems.

K-State, for instance, lost by 24 points at New Mexico and by 30 at California before avenging the New Mexico defeat in December and reeling off a seven-game winning streak later in the season.

"Our kids were learning, and that's the case in almost half of this league," Huggins said. "It's like bringing in 13 new guys. I think that had a great effect on this league RPI."

Weiberg, a former NCAA committee member, said such factors will be considered and teams will be evaluated for their entire body of work.

"I know coaches get frustrated about teams with winning conference records being so-called bubble teams," Weiberg said. "But I do think the process is going to take care of some of that, and we are all doing our best for the conference."

Tim Bisel can be reached at (785) 295-1289 or tim.bisel@cjonline.com.

http://cjonline.com/stories/030607/haw_154152231.shtml

Mecca
03-07-2007, 12:01 PM
See I dislike this.......you thump your chest in a bad year it makes you look stupid. I understand they wanna lobby for the conference but when Kstate is a 4 in the tournament that speaks to what the level your conference is this year.....it's not good.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 12:03 PM
I think it was explained pretty well about all the new coaches installing new systems early in the year. And how that affected how well their teams did against non-conference opponents.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 12:04 PM
Mecca, your comment about KSU being a 4 seed in the B12 conference shows your lack of knowledge.

Direckshun
03-07-2007, 12:05 PM
Lower RPI than the MVC?

Whew. That is rough.

I would probably put the Big 12 third most years, but this year it's really hard to argue that this isn't the toughest league with three kick-ass teams, a team on the rise, and a Bob Knight team.

The Big 12 North still sucks, though.

Baby Lee
03-07-2007, 12:06 PM
But the mantra on game day is, you go with the teams playing well going into the tourney.

Mecca
03-07-2007, 12:06 PM
Mecca, your comment about KSU being a 4 seed in the B12 conference shows your lack of knowledge.

It does? They're a very marginal tourny team......they'd be a 6-7 in most other conferences, that speaks to your conference being down. Hell how many coaching changes did this conference make what was it 5 or 6?

You don't get a pass because you have new coaches........it's called a down year.

Cochise
03-07-2007, 12:07 PM
Well, it's the conference RPI, right there in black and white. What else do you want?

Lzen
03-07-2007, 12:09 PM
It does? They're a very marginal tourny team......they'd be a 6-7 in most other conferences, that speaks to your conference being down. Hell how many coaching changes did this conference make what was it 5 or 6?

You don't get a pass because you have new coaches........it's called a down year.

Tell me how you know that they would be a 6-7 in most other conferences. Is it because you know all? ROFL Huggins has proven to be a very good coach.

Mecca
03-07-2007, 12:11 PM
Please don't try to tell me Kstate is a great team.....

Lzen
03-07-2007, 12:12 PM
Well, it's the conference RPI, right there in black and white. What else do you want?

Oh I agree. I know their reasoning and it makes sense. But these coaches do make a good argument. I think teams like KSU and TT deserve to be in the NCAA tournament over some little piss ant conference tourney winner. JMO.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 12:12 PM
Please don't try to tell me Kstate is a great team.....

Did I say that?

Mecca
03-07-2007, 12:13 PM
Oh I agree. I know their reasoning and it makes sense. But these coaches do make a good argument. I think teams like KSU and TT deserve to be in the NCAA tournament over some little piss ant conference tourney winner. JMO.

Well those winning your conference tourny rules are already in there, you can't change them or bitch about them they're there and they've been there for years.

The RPI sucks and that's why they won't get alot of teams.

Mile High Mania
03-07-2007, 12:16 PM
Big 12 coaches should have learned from Mack Brown about whining... it makes you look silly.

keg in kc
03-07-2007, 12:23 PM
I'm surprised nobody has pointed out to young Mecca the fact that K-State beat USC quite handily.

Stirring the pot...

Mile High Mania
03-07-2007, 12:26 PM
"Our kids were learning, and that's the case in almost half of this league," Huggins said. "It's like bringing in 13 new guys. I think that had a great effect on this league RPI."

Well, the future looks bright then... buck up li'l campers.

BigRedChief
03-07-2007, 12:30 PM
I'm surprised nobody has pointed out to young Mecca the fact that K-State beat USC quite handily.

Stirring the pot...
Missouri State beat Wisconsin. Their league has a higher RPI than the Big 12. Their RPI is higher than Kansas State. They deserved to get in this year after having a the #20 RPI last year and getting stiffed.

But would they beat Kansas State on a neutral court? Probably not.

Cochise
03-07-2007, 12:30 PM
Oh I agree. I know their reasoning and it makes sense. But these coaches do make a good argument. I think teams like KSU and TT deserve to be in the NCAA tournament over some little piss ant conference tourney winner. JMO.

Those pissant teams from mid-major conferences like Bradley or Bucknell definitely have no business playing with the big boys. :rolleyes:

Mile High Mania
03-07-2007, 12:34 PM
Texas Tech did lose to friggin Air Force & Baylor ... but, they're big boy ready?

Coogs
03-07-2007, 12:35 PM
Those pissant teams from mid-major conferences like Bradley or Bucknell definitely have no business playing with the big boys. :rolleyes:

Those two losses don't really help the Big 12's cause IMO. The overall performance in the tournament of the Big 12 teams has not been stellar by any means the last two years. A good run by 2 or 3 of the teams this year might change that perception, and next year we might have more teams in with the same records they have this season.

ROYC75
03-07-2007, 12:49 PM
Lower RPI than the MVC?

Whew. That is rough.

I would probably put the Big 12 third most years, but this year it's really hard to argue that this isn't the toughest league with three kick-ass teams, a team on the rise, and a Bob Knight team.

The Big 12 North still sucks, though.


Naturally that has nothing, I say nothing to do with new coaches in the Big 12 installing new schemes ? Right ? Think again..........

Wonder how many teams want to play the Big 12 teams now ( Not many ) , not like early in the year as the RPI is going to reflect. Losing to them early is killing the 12's RPI.

MU, KSU OU and Neb. is playing better now than during the non confrence schedules......

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 12:50 PM
It does? They're a very marginal tourny team......they'd be a 6-7 in most other conferences, that speaks to your conference being down. Hell how many coaching changes did this conference make what was it 5 or 6?

You don't get a pass because you have new coaches........it's called a down year.
Scoreboard, bitch.

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 12:58 PM
Ok, listen up, and listen good. There is a reason that the Big XII RPI is low:

KANSAS: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN
TEXAS A&M: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN
TEXAS: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN

Let's face it: the top teams in the Big XII and other "BCS" conferences are too big of pussies to schedule true road games. The RPI was adjusted a couple years back to give alot more weight for road games, and conferences like the MVC have taken advantage of that - and have upset alot of good teams on the road.

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 01:00 PM
Anyways, overall, the Big XII is the most pathetic basketball conference out of the "BCS" leagues.

1 NCAA title in the last 51 years (and that team was put on probation the following year).

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:04 PM
Texas Tech did lose to friggin Air Force & Baylor ... but, they're big boy ready?
Tech is an enigma. How do they beat Kansas and aTm (2X) yet lose to Baylor?
:shake:

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:08 PM
Those pissant teams from mid-major conferences like Bradley or Bucknell definitely have no business playing with the big boys. :rolleyes:

Well, Bucknell was a choke job. Not much I can say to defend that. Bradley, I suppose could be called a choke, as well. However, that Kansas team was very young (3 freshman and 2 sophomores starters) and Bradley had a couple NBA players on that roster. I am not talking about the MVC here. I think that league has proven over the past several years that they are legit. That being said, I don't think they will get more than 2 teams this year.

Cochise
03-07-2007, 01:09 PM
Well, Bucknell was a choke job. Not much I can say to defend that. Bradley, I suppose could be called a choke, as well. However, that Kansas team was very young (3 freshman and 2 sophomores starters) and Bradley had a couple NBA players on that roster. I am not talking about the MVC here. I think that league has proven over the past several years that they are legit. That being said, I don't think they will get more than 2 teams this year.

I know, I know... the other team still sucks. "They didn't beat us, we beat ourselves." I'm familiar with that line from the Orange Mane.

HemiEd
03-07-2007, 01:10 PM
Those two losses don't really help the Big 12's cause IMO. The overall performance in the tournament of the Big 12 teams has not been stellar by any means the last two years. A good run by 2 or 3 of the teams this year might change that perception, and next year we might have more teams in with the same records they have this season.

IMO the big 12 has performed below par for several years in the NCAA tourny. They need to earn the rep back.

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 01:10 PM
I know, I know... the other team still sucks. "They didn't beat us, we beat ourselves." I'm familiar with that line from the Orange Mane.
The proper high basketball IQ term is "they gave us their A+ game."

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:12 PM
I know, I know... the other team still sucks. "They didn't beat us, we beat ourselves." I'm familiar with that line from the Orange Mane.

Let me ask you a question. How many times do you think that Bucknell would have beaten Kansas if they played 10 games? Bradley was a good team last year. I already said as much. Were they better than Kansas? No. But they played better than Kansas in that game.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:13 PM
IMO the big 12 has performed below par for several years in the NCAA tourny. They need to earn the rep back.

True....except 2002 and 2003. Each of those 2 seasons the Big 12 had 2 teams in the Final Four.

Cochise
03-07-2007, 01:20 PM
Let me ask you a question. How many times do you think that Bucknell would have beaten Kansas if they played 10 games? Bradley was a good team last year. I already said as much. Were they better than Kansas? No. But they played better than Kansas in that game.

I forgot "9 times out of 10 we win that game". Another common one.

KU's record against Bucknell is 0-1 in real life, no matter if they are 9-0 in your imagination or not.

Your argument that they didn't deserve to be there was decimated when they beat your team. They proved that they belonged there. Only one of those teams looked like one that didn't belong there.

Mile High Mania
03-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Let me ask you a question. How many times do you think that Bucknell would have beaten Kansas if they played 10 games? Bradley was a good team last year. I already said as much. Were they better than Kansas? No. But they played better than Kansas in that game.

Isn't it all about that "one shining moment"? Single elimination, baby.

ferrarispider95
03-07-2007, 01:26 PM
Isn't it all about that "one shining moment"? Single elimination, baby.

Colorado is doing nothing to help out either except drag the conference down.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:29 PM
I forgot "9 times out of 10 we win that game". Another common one.

KU's record against Bucknell is 0-1 in real life, no matter if they are 9-0 in your imagination or not.

Your argument that they didn't deserve to be there was decimated when they beat your team. They proved that they belonged there. Only one of those teams looked like one that didn't belong there.

I noticed you avoided answering the question. That tells me all I need to know.

ChiTown
03-07-2007, 01:33 PM
This is all a bunch of talk for nothing. KSU HAS TO win to get in. They beat Tech, they're dancing, they lose, it's the NIT. It's THAT simple, and I'm good with it.

BTW, Tech just needs to beat CU to lock up their spot. That win, and going 3-0 against aTm and KU will place them in the Dance. jmho

Stinger
03-07-2007, 01:37 PM
I noticed you avoided answering the question. That tells me all I need to know.

So not talking about hypotheticals is avoiding the question??? There is no way to prove it one way or the other unless they actually play the game.


And you all forgot to add the phrase "this was their Championship/Superbowl"

HemiEd
03-07-2007, 01:41 PM
True....except 2002 and 2003. Each of those 2 seasons the Big 12 had 2 teams in the Final Four.

I think, but do not know how to check, that the early attrition was high, even though two teams made it to the final four. Just an observation, but the big 12 seems to frequently have a lot of early exits.

Espn always shows those conference updates and the ACC and Big East seem to have the highest percentage advance.

Cochise
03-07-2007, 01:46 PM
I noticed you avoided answering the question. That tells me all I need to know.

I noticed that Bucknell won the game, that tells me all I need to know.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:52 PM
This is all a bunch of talk for nothing. KSU HAS TO win to get in. They beat Tech, they're dancing, they lose, it's the NIT. It's THAT simple, and I'm good with it.

BTW, Tech just needs to beat CU to lock up their spot. That win, and going 3-0 against aTm and KU will place them in the Dance. jmho

You're probably right.

Mr. Laz
03-07-2007, 01:54 PM
"I'm really disappointed in the way that people are perceiving our league" Gillispie said during the Big 12 coaches teleconference.
fine .... then do something about it and win something


goes for the all the coaches in the Big 12

continue to lose to in the 1st round of the Tourney and get your arses beat in non-con play ... they will continue to consider you weak.



if Texas A&M,Kansas and Texas all make the final 4 this year than next year people will look more favorably at the conference.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:56 PM
So not talking about hypotheticals is avoiding the question??? There is no way to prove it one way or the other unless they actually play the game.


And you all forgot to add the phrase "this was their Championship/Superbowl"

You are correct in saying that there is no way to prove it. My point, in case you missed it, was that I think we all know who was the better team. I know, Bucknell was the better team on that particular day. They won, they have bragging rights and all of that. We all know that if you use logic and not emotions we know which team should have won. But that is what the tourney is all about. There is a reason why they are called upsets. C'mon, MUrons KU hatred is really showing. It's pretty sad when you all hang your hats on a win by a team that you have no affiliation.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 01:58 PM
fine .... then do something about it and win something


goes for the all the coaches in the Big 12

continue to lose to in the 1st round of the Tourney and get your arses beat in non-con play ... they will continue to consider you weak.



if Texas A&M,Kansas and Texas all make the final 4 this year than next year people will look more favorably at the conference.

I agree 100%. If Self can't coach this group of talent past the first few rounds, I want him gone.

HemiEd
03-07-2007, 01:59 PM
You are correct in saying that there is no way to prove it. My point, in case you missed it, was that I think we all know who was the better team. I know, Bucknell was the better team on that particular day. They won, they have bragging rights and all of that. We all know that if you use logic and not emotions we know which team should have won. But that is what the tourney is all about. There is a reason why they are called upsets. C'mon, MUrons KU hatred is really showing. It's pretty sad when you all hang your hats on a win by a team that you have no affiliation.


MU has made more than their fair share of early exits, especially under Norm Stewart.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 02:00 PM
And you all forgot to add the phrase "this was their Championship/Superbowl"

Oh, and you forgot to add Missouri has never been to a Final Four. And Missouri didn't even make it to the NCAA tournament.

Lzen
03-07-2007, 02:00 PM
MU has made more than their fair share of early exits, especially under Norm Stewart.

Which is why they hang their hats on KU losses. :rolleyes:

Mr. Laz
03-07-2007, 02:05 PM
I agree 100%. If Self can't coach this group of talent past the first few rounds, I want him gone.
i don't want Self gone ... even if he doesn't win with this group.

College is different ...... it's not like the pros, there is more to it than winning.


BUT......


if Self can't win with this group than eventually it will start effecting his ability to recruit ...... as soon as that starts to happen we will need to replace him.

winning isn't everything, but you can't let the program start to slide because that will effect the entire school financially and otherwise.


Rock Chalk



just as added post bonus :fire:


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5721/9001yu5.jpg

Cochise
03-07-2007, 02:31 PM
Which is why they hang their hats on KU losses. :rolleyes:

I never mentioned Missouri and nobody else did either until you did.

I was talking about the fact that you say your team deserved to be in the tournament and that Bucknell didn't, but Bucknell BEAT YOU. Your argument is untenable. They won a game in the tournament so therefore, there can be no question about whether they were good enough to be there.

What is really sad is not someone who would take pleasure in a rival's loss, that is pretty much all of us. Not all would still be making excuses for a loss that was, what, 3 years ago?

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 02:46 PM
fine .... then do something about it and win something


goes for the all the coaches in the Big 12

continue to lose to in the 1st round of the Tourney and get your arses beat in non-con play ... they will continue to consider you weak.



if Texas A&M,Kansas and Texas all make the final 4 this year than next year people will look more favorably at the conference.
K-State will be doing their part next year. We realize our non-con sucked, but we will be playing Gonzaga, either UNC or Kentucky, and Oregon...all next year. Plus the newly formed Old Spice Classic in Orlando, and the Jimmy V classic. Of course it won't help if we lose all those games, but something tells me we will be pretty good next year. :evil:

htismaqe
03-07-2007, 02:48 PM
I for one think Self WILL win at least one while at KU. In fact, he has the horses to do it THIS YEAR.

Stinger
03-07-2007, 03:00 PM
There is a reason why they are called upsets. C'mon, MUrons KU hatred is really showing. It's pretty sad when you all hang your hats on a win by a team that you have no affiliation.

Oh, and you forgot to add Missouri has never been to a Final Four. And Missouri didn't even make it to the NCAA tournament.


ROFL ROFL

Just so you know MU can die a slow death IMO. Being from Springfield those from MU don't like those of us in MSU country because of a name change.

I just get a kick out of comparing KU fans to Denver fans because neither team has, according to most of their fans, lost a game.

Eric
03-07-2007, 03:03 PM
Soren Petro = Brainless tool who regurgitates stupid RPI.

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 03:04 PM
Soren Petro = Brainless tool who regurgitates stupid RPI.
Yep. Kietz is much better.

htismaqe
03-07-2007, 03:05 PM
Yep. Kietz is much better.

I hope you're not serious.

DJJasonp
03-07-2007, 03:10 PM
As much as a huge KU and Big 12 fan that I am....I'm upset at this story....

Go win some national titles (Big 12)...then if you dont get recognition...bitch a little.

On the other topic....if Self doesnt get us past the first round....I want him gone.

one and done doesnt cut it at KU....last year didnt surprise me....the year before was no excuse....and this year....you should be publicly flogged for losing in the first round with that much talent.

So we'll see.......rock chalk....

leviw
03-07-2007, 03:19 PM
As much as a huge KU and Big 12 fan that I am....I'm upset at this story....

Go win some national titles (Big 12)...then if you dont get recognition...bitch a little.

On the other topic....if Self doesnt get us past the first round....I want him gone.

one and done doesnt cut it at KU....last year didnt surprise me....the year before was no excuse....and this year....you should be publicly flogged for losing in the first round with that much talent.

So we'll see.......rock chalk....

How come the players get all the credit when KU wins, but Self gets all the blame when the lose?

Natty_Light_Man
03-07-2007, 03:21 PM
Ok, listen up, and listen good. There is a reason that the Big XII RPI is low:

KANSAS: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN
TEXAS A&M: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN
TEXAS: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN

Let's face it: the top teams in the Big XII and other "BCS" conferences are too big of pussies to schedule true road games. The RPI was adjusted a couple years back to give alot more weight for road games, and conferences like the MVC have taken advantage of that - and have upset alot of good teams on the road.

Playing conference games for the Big 12 teams is a trial in and of itself. The RPI is fine but when your matched up to play Texas twice, Kansas, Texas A & M and other possible strong teams in the Big 12 how many ranked teams back to back to back should a team have to face.

I agree the conference is not as tough as previous years but there are several teams down from previous years. Yes they could have scheduled tougher Non conf. games but then been blown away because teams like Okl. Okl state play to their potential.

Kansas State and Texas Tech. both should make it to the big dance!

Skip Towne
03-07-2007, 03:40 PM
MU and KSU fans are justified in running down KU. You don't see either one of them losing first round games. Hell, KSU hasn't lost a tourney game in more than 10 years.

StcChief
03-07-2007, 03:58 PM
I will be pulling for my SIU DAWGS to take somebody down.

leviw
03-07-2007, 04:00 PM
I will be pulling for my SIU DAWGS to take somebody down.

Creighton would have been a good start.

StcChief
03-07-2007, 04:00 PM
Playing conference games for the Big 12 teams is a trial in and of itself. The RPI is fine but when your matched up to play Texas twice, Kansas, Texas A & M and other possible strong teams in the Big 12 how many ranked teams back to back to back should a team have to face.

I agree the conference is not as tough as previous years but there are several teams down from previous years. Yes they could have scheduled tougher Non conf. games but then been blown away because teams like Okl. Okl state play to their potential.

Kansas State and Texas Tech. both should make it to the big dance! yeah. playing tough non-conf games just gets you L's
away. But strength of schedule could go up....
crap shot for tourney selection later.

StcChief
03-07-2007, 04:05 PM
Creighton would have been a good start.

yeah. We have been iffy in MVC tourney in past. Why???

but go couple rounds in Big Dance.

I don't see us against Creighton (would be nice, that would be final 4) we won't be in same bracket.

leviw
03-07-2007, 04:08 PM
yeah. We have been iffy in MVC tourney in past. Why???

but go couple rounds in Big Dance.

I don't see us against Creighton (would be nice, that would be final 4) we won't be in same bracket.

If you're a mid-major legit team, you win your conference tournament.

No, they won't play Creighton again. I was just pointing out that they should have beat them in StL.

irishjayhawk
03-07-2007, 04:20 PM
Big 12 coaches should have learned from Mack Brown about whining... it makes you look silly.

I wholeheartedly agree about Mack Brown and whining. However, I think this is a different scenario. In Brown's case he was lobbying his time after being defeated by a much lesser opponent. In this case, it is coaches arguing on behalf of the LEAGUE, not one specific team.

On the basic principle, the Big XII is underrated and the ACC is overrated. Having said that, the ACC is still superior, overall, than the Big XII, but it can't stop them from being overrated and underrated respectively.

DaneMcCloud
03-07-2007, 04:29 PM
I'm surprised nobody has pointed out to young Mecca the fact that K-State beat USC quite handily.

Stirring the pot...

Mecca's only a fan of USC football under Pete Carroll because they're winners.

DaneMcCloud
03-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Well, Bucknell was a choke job. Not much I can say to defend that. Bradley, I suppose could be called a choke, as well. However, that Kansas team was very young (3 freshman and 2 sophomores starters) and Bradley had a couple NBA players on that roster. I am not talking about the MVC here. I think that league has proven over the past several years that they are legit. That being said, I don't think they will get more than 2 teams this year.

Dude, when a team is seeded #4 and the opponent is seeded #13 and #4 loses, IT'S A CHOKE JOB. It doesn't matter the age of the players on the court.

For two years running, Self has done a horrific job of preparing his team to play in the NCAA Tournament. Let's just hope he doesn't go for the hat trick.

Terribilis
03-07-2007, 04:36 PM
Ok, listen up, and listen good. There is a reason that the Big XII RPI is low:

KANSAS: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN
TEXAS A&M: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN
TEXAS: 2 NON-CON ROAD GAMES, 1 NON-CON ROAD WIN

Let's face it: the top teams in the Big XII and other "BCS" conferences are too big of pussies to schedule true road games. The RPI was adjusted a couple years back to give alot more weight for road games, and conferences like the MVC have taken advantage of that - and have upset alot of good teams on the road.

why should these teams schedule tougher games, if they are getting consistantly high seeds in the tourney, just to help out Kstate or TTech?

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 04:39 PM
why should these teams schedule tougher games, if they are getting consistantly high seeds in the tourney, just to help out Kstate or TTech?
You are right, the big conferences should just keep being pussies.

Stinger
03-07-2007, 04:58 PM
Dude, when a team is seeded #4 and the opponent is seeded #13 and #4 loses, IT'S A CHOKE JOB. It doesn't matter the age of the players on the court.

Bull**** give credit where credit is due KU got beat. Perhaps just perhaps they were better than KU that day*, and KU didn't choke. To demish a win to the other team is a sorry state of denial.

I do believe, that the #13 Seed Bradley teams that KU LOST too, not gave the game too, went on to beat other teams in the tourney as well.

* Before KU fans bring out the well we would beat them 9 out 10 times crap you only have 1 chance so win or get out.


Disclaimer: this is not a rant against DaneMcCloud.

DaneMcCloud
03-07-2007, 07:18 PM
Bull**** give credit where credit is due KU got beat. Perhaps just perhaps they were better than KU that day*, and KU didn't choke. To demish a win to the other team is a sorry state of denial.

I do believe, that the #13 Seed Bradley teams that KU LOST too, not gave the game too, went on to beat other teams in the tourney as well.

* Before KU fans bring out the well we would beat them 9 out 10 times crap you only have 1 chance so win or get out.


Disclaimer: this is not a rant against DaneMcCloud.

No, I thoroughly agree. KU got outcoached and beat. My response was to Lzen's claim that "maybe" KU choked. Regardless of whether you call it a "chokejob" or not, KU got beat two years in a row by Mid-Major teams when it counted.

As I said earlier, I hope they don't go for the Hat Trick.

chiefsfan987
03-07-2007, 07:24 PM
These coaches should have kept their mouths shut until the Big XII had a strong showing in the tournament. I tend to think our conference isn't very good and that the 3 or 4 bids that we get is about right. If the Missouri Valley conference has a higher RPI and are only getting 3, why should we get more?

Terribilis
03-07-2007, 07:26 PM
You are right, the big conferences should just keep being pussies.
I dont see where Kstate is leading the charge for tougher schedules...
maybe KSU should start worrying about beating New Mexico or Colorado state and quit blaming KU and Texas.

kstater
03-07-2007, 07:28 PM
I dont see where Kstate is leading the charge for tougher schedules...
maybe KSU should start worrying about beating New Mexico or Colorado state and quit blaming KU and Texas.


Where has anyone blamed KU and Texas? I beleive it we KU and Texas's coaches who made the comments.

Saulbadguy
03-07-2007, 07:31 PM
I dont see where Kstate is leading the charge for tougher schedules...
maybe KSU should start worrying about beating New Mexico or Colorado state and quit blaming KU and Texas.
Post #49, dipshit.

leviw
03-07-2007, 07:44 PM
These coaches should have kept their mouths shut until the Big XII had a strong showing in the tournament. I tend to think our conference isn't very good and that the 3 or 4 bids that we get is about right. If the Missouri Valley conference has a higher RPI and are only getting 3, why should we get more?

Whether it's genuinely good or not has nothing to do with the coaches politicking for it. It happens every year by one BCS conference or another, because a computer system gives it a bad rep, and they have to defend itself.

Plus, this coaching business is a close fraternity. They do this to help out. When the coaches of the top teams in the conference are sticking up for and making a case for the bubble teams, it does nothing but help the bubble teams' perception.

ArrowheadHawk
03-07-2007, 08:07 PM
if ku loses in the first round again this year i might have to shoot myself.....just kidding but i may wanna hide for a couple of weeks under the covers and cry