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View Full Version : The Debate: Mike McMahon or Josh Heupal


Tribal Warfare
03-14-2001, 09:48 PM
Mike McMahon (http://nfldraftdigest.rivals.com/default.asp?p=2&sid=573&stid=8120696)




McMahon is a nice prospect with the tools to compete for a spot at the next level. He shows quick feet in his set up at times. He shows a good delivery and the ball comes out of his hand very well at times. He does need to work on his downfield delivery though. He tends to wind up a little and comes too low with the ball. He has been under a lot of pressure at Rutgers so his mechanics will get sloppy at times. He also had bouts of bad judgement in college due to the poor pass protection in from of him. When he has time, he shows the ability to locate secondary receivers. Overall, he will time to develop a better feel making decisions and accuracy.

He can get the ball downfield, but needs to work on his placement of the ball and his mechanics. But with more work, he can become an adequate downfield passer. His overall arm strength is good and he will show good zip within the intermediate passing game although he needs to develop better touch. He has the ability to gain yardage with his feet and move around the pocket a little. He has the ability to throw the ball on the run, but his set up can be inconsistent at times.

Overall, McMahon has the tools to develop, but he will need a lot of reps and refinement. He had a tough career at Rutgers because he was not dealt the best hand in terms of personnel surrounding him. He is a very hard worker who will put in a lot of time to prepare. He did display a lot of frustration at Rutgers and will be on top of the other players at times. It can turn off others, but he is just a very intense competitor. He has had some shoulder problems over the last couple years and had surgery on his right shoulder in 1999 to repair his posterior labrum. Has the potential to get a lot better with refinement in a good situation. Grades as a potential mid round pick.


[Edited by ChiefPriority on 03-14-2001 at 11:01 PM]

Tribal Warfare
03-14-2001, 09:49 PM
Josh Heupal (http://nfldraftdigest.rivals.com/default.asp?p=2&sid=573&stid=7952484)


Heupel is a steady college quarterback who lacks the physical skills of many pro quarterbacks, but has a lot of good qualities about him. He does sense the rush and can step up. He sets up well in the pocket and has quick enough feet to step away from the rush. He does need to refine his footwork though. His release is not bad, but he needs work on his delivery. He needs to work on delivering the ball at a higher arm angle. He tends to release the ball too low, which negates his arm strength and also causes a number of balls to get tipped at the line of scrimmage. At this point, his arm strength is just adequate, but it could improve his better mechanics. Within his lower body, he needs to coordinate it with his deliver because he tends to push the ball. He also will throw off the back foot occasionally when he tries to make too much happen.

Heupel is generally accurate within the intermediate passing game and also places the ball well downfield. He is smart, makes good reads, and does a good job locating secondary receivers. While he doesn't have a great arm, he will show respectable zip intermediately although his balls to the outs are sometimes weak. He will make some bad decisions at times when he tries to do too much. In the downfield passing game, he gets the ball downfield adequately and gets enough arch on the ball.

In terms of pro potential, Heupel doesn't have the prototypical size scouts look for and is on the lean side. But you can't ignore his intangibles. He is a tough lefty who is very smart and poised on the field. He makes good reads and is not afraid to audible. His intangibles and gutty attitude suggest he'll be at least a good backup. In the right situation, maybe a steady starter. Could develop into a starter in a ball control passing game if he mechanics improve to the point it helps his skills. Had his right knee reconstructed in the spring of 1997 after an ACL injury. Carries a mid round grade.

[Edited by ChiefPriority on 03-14-2001 at 11:03 PM]

Joe Seahawk
03-14-2001, 10:03 PM
Marques Tuiasosopo - QB - Washington - 6'2 - 222 - 4.65/40
Flat out one of the more exciting players in the country. Would probably be the favorite of the quarterbacks for the Heisman would it not be for the passing of Drew Brees and the gloriousness that is Michael Vick. A fine athlete. Was originally offered scholarships by Miami, Nebraska, and other top schools as a safety and running back prospect. Took ther hometown Husky posiiton only because they promised him a "reasonable chance" to play quarterback. Has a surprisingly accurate arm for his mobility. Is not the stereotypical run, run, run, and pass sometimes option QB. Has demonstrated the ability to throw all of the passes, including the deep out. Is a leader, and has shown true clutch 4th quarter ability. Is a bit short, but is very strong and athletic. Still makes some poor decisions, and does force the ball, at times. May drop in some scouts eyes this season, as the Huskies plan to utilize Tuiasosopo's great running ability by running the option more and more frequently. Obviously, the lack of a true pro passing attack will sour many on Tuiasosopo's pro potential. However, this, in my opinion, is a mistake. True, he is not the complete passer like a Drew Brees or Carson Palmer, but the kid is a winner, and has loads of real quarterbacking potential. I don't see him as a 1st round pick, but as a 3rd or 4th rounder who will learn the NFL ropes as a back-up and surprise a team a few years down the road. Reminds me a lot of former Kansas State star Michael Bishop, except Tuiasosopo consistently displays more passing accuracy.

Tribal Warfare
03-14-2001, 10:05 PM
Joe- I knew you would add Tui :D

[Edited by ChiefPriority on 03-14-2001 at 11:09 PM]

Tribal Warfare
03-14-2001, 10:15 PM
I'm interested to see if KC drafts McMahon, because of his relationship with KC's new QB coach.

cjderby
03-14-2001, 10:15 PM
Didn't see McMahon play, so can't say much on him. But Heupal is a side-armed, rag-armed joke as a pro prospect. Must have some good intangibles to have overcome his passing problems and still have the college success that he had, but those intangibles probably can't see him through at the next level.

Joe Seahawk
03-14-2001, 10:17 PM
:)

Tribal Warfare
03-14-2001, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by cjderby
those intangibles probably can't see him through at the next level.


I disagree determination and leadership always carries over to the next level The guy is very cerebral he can run this offense. The arm strength issue, Heupal is around 22-23 years old. He can hit the weight room gain 15 Lbs of muscle, work on his form and then you'll have your protypical QB for this offense.

ChiefsFanatic
03-14-2001, 10:45 PM
I posted this on another thread. He suffers from debilitating disease:

Rashaan Salaam Disease. This occurs when a player receives Heisman Hype when he is the player on a National Championship team with the name recognition. Symptoms include being hyped for the Heisman, even though you are clearly not one of the 3 best players in college. Other symptoms that effect the athlete are the ability to induce a professional football team to waste a draft pick, and being a draft bust.

This disease is also known as Andre Ware Disease, David Klingler Disease and Tony Mandarich Disease.

He should change his name from Josh Heupel to Josh Hypel.

Otter
03-14-2001, 11:21 PM
I gotta go with McMahon on this one.

I haven't seen him play much so alot of what I know about him comes thru reading. He seems like a guy who has all the physical attributes and just needs some fine tuning under the right offensive personal, which we hopefully have in KC now.

I also don't give a whole lot of credit to what the press says about anybody’s problems. Those vultures feed off that stuff so I'm not giving that too much weight in the equation.

On the downside, he's definitely not someone you could throw in his rookie year without some ugly results.

Tuiasosopo would be the second choice for many of the same reasons.

I gotta agree the Heupel that is lacking an NFL arm. I know that arm strength is over-rated at times but lots of his passes looked like Warren's when he was put into the STL game last season. There's defiantly a minimum strength you need to be effective.

Pitt Gorilla
03-14-2001, 11:37 PM
Hitting the weight room and working on form will not give him a strong arm. Only God can do that.
It's not a debate. McMahon is clearly better.

Tribal Warfare
03-15-2001, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by Pitt Gorilla
Hitting the weight room and working on form will not give him a strong arm. Only God can do that.
It's not a debate. McMahon is clearly better.


Yes it will, targeting key areas of the arm and back (tricep, anterior deltoid, Lats,) if God doesn't "bless" you a great arm you make it great.

hawaiianboy
03-15-2001, 02:22 AM
Lets see... McMahon's records at Rutgers were:

0-11
5-6
1-10
3-8

I'd say the guy was preparing for life as a Chief his whole collegiate career! =P


This kind of losing for 4 years may explain his reported 'tude problems.... I'd be one surly mug too....

Tribal Warfare
03-15-2001, 02:29 AM
With a losing record like that I'm shocked he didn't pull a Jack Nicholson when he was "Jack" in the Shinning. I know I would start sharpening all pointy objects and wigging out







http://www.allposters.com/images/7/OP4_a.JPG


HERE'S JOHNNY !!!!!

[Edited by ChiefPriority on 03-15-2001 at 03:57 AM]