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Archie F. Swin
03-15-2001, 07:50 AM
Just wondering if you had any thoughts on the recent military accidents making U.S. headlines.

Has something gone wrong?

Mi_chief_fan
03-15-2001, 07:57 AM
Seems like just after I left the Navy in 96, all these accidents started happening. Just a few days after I left the squadron I was in (we were in the gulf) one of our Helo's went in the water, killing the pilot, Lcdr.Hilliard, Co-Pilot Lt. Wood, and 6 of 13 SEALS being transported in the back. Thus went the HS-15 Red Lions consecutive accident-free streak of 35,000+ straight hours.

Maybe I should go back............NAW, HELL NO!!!

Archie F. Swin
03-15-2001, 08:16 AM
MCF,

were you based at NAS JAX? I was a member of HS-1 from '92 - '94.

So, I guess your absence led to the decline in Navy safety?

Mi_chief_fan
03-15-2001, 08:31 AM
Yeah, I was at Jax 93-96.

Is it coincidence that:

1) Just before I left, CNO Adm. Mike Boorda commited suicide(He just couldn't bear the thought of losing me, for he knew the disasters it would cause)
2) The ensuing free fall of Military safety since 1996.

Looks like that little doll I picked up in AUTEC(Bahamas) really did work after all!

Mi_chief_fan
03-15-2001, 08:33 AM
BTW, I think HS-q shut down after I left.

Again, coincidence? I was an AT3. What was you're rate, and did you work on the 60's, or the old H-3's?

Archie F. Swin
03-15-2001, 09:46 AM
I got out as an AZ3, I "worked" on 60s and 3s . . . . actually did the AUTEC thing once, but I spent most of the time on the flight line . . . great chow though!

3 things I miss about Jacksonville:

warm winters

Gators Docksides (best wings I've ever had)

River City Brewing Co. happy hour ($1.50 home brew pulls)

Mi_chief_fan
03-15-2001, 10:04 AM
3 things I miss about Jax:

1) St. Augustine
2) The Landing
3) Crazy Horse(only went once, and I hate country music; but the WOMEN!!

3 things I don't miss:
1) Summer in FLA
2) The Navy
3)Nothing but SEC, on TV & talk radio. I remember when Florida played Nebraska in the 96 Fiesta bowl. Only 1 radio host on the city picked Nebraska; everyone else insisted Nebraska would be 'blown out & humiliated'. I've always kinda liked Nebraska since then.

Phobia
03-15-2001, 01:17 PM
Semper Fi

I was in Turkey on an exercise the year we blew up that Turkish ship accidentally w/ a SAM. We were scheduled to go on a day trip for R&R to see some cools sites but that was cancelled.

I don't know what to say about the other accidents of late but that one pissed me off. :)

j molina
03-15-2001, 03:58 PM
Retired USAF out of Whiteman AFB, Mo. in 1993.

Ironic in that my very last duty station was Missouri
and my first, Richards-Gebaur AFB in Grandview, 1976-78(now just a reserve unit), also in the Show Me State.

JM

PostalChief
03-15-2001, 04:19 PM
I did the Air Force thing myself.

Active Duty '84-'91
AF Reservist '91-'95

Special Purpose Vehicle Mechanic (Aircraft Refuelers)

Desert Storm Vet

Zweibrucken Air Base, West Germany '84-'88
Mather AFB, Sacramento CA '88-'91
Bergstrom AFB, Austin TX '91-'95

Pretty ho-hum career other than the Gulf War. Was at Dhahran S. A. and dodged my share of Scuds. Pretty exhilirating experience, too say the least.

Coyote
03-15-2001, 04:54 PM
Nothing's wrong. These things just tend to always run in "3s." We have also grown to expect 0 mishaps and that is just unrealistic in maintianing readiness and so we see press reports on page 1 that traditionally were page 5. The overall mishap rate is down for the fiscal year but timing's everything.
"The only easy day is yesterday" Easy day and Semper Fi.

KCJohnny
03-15-2001, 06:28 PM
KCJohnny
SSG, USA
1993-
4th ID, 101st ABN, 2nd ID, 82nd ABN.
These things happen in bunches. But there is a lot of new technology that is somewhat difficult to master. Everything is digital nowadays.
Our modern military has a lot of moving pieces. Unfortunately, accidents will happen.
KCJ

Frazod
03-15-2001, 08:02 PM
Navy, '84 to '90. I don't think anything's gone wrong with regard to these accidents. The military is generally a very unforgiving environment - lots of people using dangerous things to do dangerous things. It's not a job, or an adventure - ITS PEOPLE TRAINING TO KILL OTHER PEOPLE. Sometimes sh!t happens. It's unfortunate, and the result of bad decisions, bad timing and certainly bad luck. But people die horribly and unjustly all over the place, not just in the military. That's life.

Warrior5
03-15-2001, 09:25 PM
LTC, USA
1984-present
NTC OPFOR, 11th Cav, 2 ID, CTAC
Combination of things already mentioned:
Training using constantly emerging technology.
Lack of training $ to maintain proficiency in warfighting tasks.
Timing.
Nature of the profession - training to fight.

morphius
03-15-2001, 09:31 PM
J Molina - Which unit at RG? My father was stationed there a couple of those years, and was later in the Reserve 442.

Wife is currently finishing her term in the navy. She is on TAD until 6 weeks AFTER the birth of our son and then she will have to go back to San Diego for a few weeks to finish all of her paperwork and checking out. That is not going to be fun.

waKCo
03-15-2001, 10:34 PM
Sub Sailor, Radioman/Electronics Tech

90-96 RM2/SS Mostly in (rotten) Groton,Ct.
Did a year in Portsmouth New hampshire after my Sub "discovered" a Sea Mount off the coast of Massachusetts(prior to my arrival).

My boat was called the "sea plow" for having so many accidents with other "objects". Although while I was there we never hit anything.

One of the main tiffs I had with the military was the fact they were trying to do so much with so few people. It was a rare week when we'd actually get home at 5 or have a weekend off. We need to downsize the military but keep personelle levels the same.

[Edited by waKCo on 03-15-2001 at 10:37 PM]

Multi1
03-16-2001, 07:20 AM
EWCS(SW), 1971-77 USN, 1984-Present USNR

Served on:
USS Saratoga CV-60, 1972-1974 closed out Viet Nam
USS W.S. Sims FF-1060, 1974-1977
USS Whipple FF-1062 1984-1991, Reserve Duty
USS Whipple FF-1062 1991, Recalled to Desert Storm
USS Missouri BB63, Reserve Duty
USS Kirk FF-1087, Reserve Duty
USS Samuel E. Morrison FFG-13, Reserve Duty
USS Clark FFG-11, Reserve Duty
USS Kiska AE-35, Reserve Duty
USS Acadia, Reserve Duty
MOTU 10, Reserve Duty
USS Simon Lake AS-37(?), Reserve Duty
SIMA San Diego, Reserve Duty
SIMA Everette, Reserve Duty
SIMA Pearl Harbor, Reserve Duty
Naval Ship Weapons Systems Engineering Station, Port Hueneme Reserve Duty
NAVIMFAC, Pear Harbor, Reserve Duty
NAWC TSD, Orlando, Reserve Duty

Naval Reserve Center, Joplin, MO
Naval Reserve Center, Little Rock, AR
Naval and Marine Corps Reserve Center, Tulsa

I guess when you get old, you get around!! Also, due to age and memory restrictions, I'm sure I left some out.

As far as the accidents go, they have always been there, the media, has not. The submarine accident was terrible, my question is: What were the civilians doing on our boat? I have the proper clearances, a long and somewhat distinguished career and I cannot even get a ride on one! That is the rub in the sinking of the Japanese boat, why were those people allowed on one of the most powerful and secret weapons platforms in the world?



[Edited by TomCash on 03-16-2001 at 07:24 AM]

waKCo
03-16-2001, 08:35 AM
Actually having civies on a sub is not that uncommon. We did that every 18 months or so when I served. Took my wife on a day cruise and my step father got to go on a three day cruise up to Maine for a lobsterfest. I also did tiger runs where I didn't have family on board, but most of the crew did.
Believe me, the civies were not to blame in this case. That captain didn't do his job, along with his contact coordinator.

JohninGpt
03-16-2001, 01:04 PM
BUC(SCW)
I'm a SEABEE Chief stationed at a training command in Gulfport, MS. From 1989 to present I have been stationed in Gulfport, but have deployed for 7 months at a time to:
Rota, Spain (twice)
Subic Bay (WAAAHOOOO!)
Zakho, Iraq (not wahoo)
Guam
Okinawa
Puerto Rico
and Mainland Japan (NAF Atsugi)

We in the Seabees have a lot of accidents too, but they usually involve a new guy, his thumb, and a hammer. Not to many serious injuries.

Iowanian
03-16-2001, 02:31 PM
I saw at noon that the ARMY has decided to make black berets standard issue. They have compromised to designate Rangers a TAN beret...along with Maroon for Airborn and Green for Green Beret.

I'm glad to see a designation made....but why not issue Grunts the tan and let Rangers keep the black?

Multi1
03-16-2001, 05:22 PM
Family on subs I understand, the who's who of town I don't.

If you know enough ranking officers I guess you can do what you want.

JohninGpt
03-16-2001, 05:42 PM
Tom,
When were you at NMCRC Tulsa? I'm from Broken Arrow and started out there in Reserve Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 22 from 87-88.
Trying to be a carpenter in the area at that time turned out to be a losing proposition, so I asked Uncle Sam for a full time job.

John

old_geezer
03-16-2001, 05:48 PM
I'm brand new to this board; just joined today. It's a great place to keep up on Chief's news.
I served in the Army 69-71; Military Police and Viet-Nam vet. I was lucky in the sense that I was stationed in Long Bihn - as safe as you could get in Nam.

Archie F. Swin
03-16-2001, 10:31 PM
Welcome Aboard Old Geezer!

I'm proud that you chose my thread to respond to first.


C.R. Pants

Rick Stephens
03-17-2001, 01:28 AM
Morphius,

I was stationed at Richards-Gebaur, AFB from 1966-1971 as a member of the 935 Combat Support Squadron of the 442 MAW. This was an Air Force Reserve Unit.

morphius
03-17-2001, 09:31 AM
Rick - My father was active duty in Germany from 71-74 and then spent a couple at RG and went to Scott AFB for a short stint and then went to the reserves at RG. I can't think of anyone that might have been in RG for that short period that you were there, I think the ones that might have been are now both Generals, Mitchell and Bradly, but I have an odd feeling that they have both retired.

j molina
03-17-2001, 11:30 PM
morphius said - "J Molina - Which unit at RG? My father was stationed there a couple of those years, and was later in the Reserve 442."

I was in the Security Police Sqdn. Once they began phase-down operations, I was sent to Scott AFB with about eight other guys in my unit. It was kind of cool because we all came to a new base knowing each other.

Multi1
03-18-2001, 08:50 AM
I am currently at Broken Arrow, I am the second senior enlisted person at the center. We have one Master Chief and then me.

It's good to be a King!!!!

j molina
03-18-2001, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by TomCash
EWCS(SW), 1971-77 USN, 1984-Present USNR

Served on:
USS Saratoga CV-60, 1972-1974 closed out Viet Nam
USS W.S. Sims FF-1060, 1974-1977
USS Whipple FF-1062 1984-1991, Reserve Duty
USS Whipple FF-1062 1991, Recalled to Desert Storm
USS Missouri BB63, Reserve Duty
USS Kirk FF-1087, Reserve Duty
USS Samuel E. Morrison FFG-13, Reserve Duty
USS Clark FFG-11, Reserve Duty
USS Kiska AE-35, Reserve Duty
USS Acadia, Reserve Duty
MOTU 10, Reserve Duty
USS Simon Lake AS-37(?), Reserve Duty
SIMA San Diego, Reserve Duty
SIMA Everette, Reserve Duty
SIMA Pearl Harbor, Reserve Duty
Naval Ship Weapons Systems Engineering Station, Port Hueneme Reserve Duty
NAVIMFAC, Pear Harbor, Reserve Duty
NAWC TSD, Orlando, Reserve Duty

Naval Reserve Center, Joplin, MO
Naval Reserve Center, Little Rock, AR
Naval and Marine Corps Reserve Center, Tulsa

I guess when you get old, you get around!! Also, due to age and memory restrictions, I'm sure I left some out.

As far as the accidents go, they have always been there, the media, has not. The submarine accident was terrible, my question is: What were the civilians doing on our boat? I have the proper clearances, a long and somewhat distinguished career and I cannot even get a ride on one! That is the rub in the sinking of the Japanese boat, why were those people allowed on one of the most powerful and secret weapons platforms in the world?

[Edited by TomCash on 03-16-2001 at 07:24 AM]

Sounds like you got around my man. I don't have quite that many stops on my military resume.

Missouri, Illinois, Texas, New Mexico, Korea(two separate one year tours), and a one year stint in Iceland. And TDY's to California & Florida.

Greatly enjoying the civilian life these days.

JM

Radar Chief
03-18-2001, 12:05 PM
US Army 88-92
88-89 B Co. 1/56 ADA Ft. Bliss, TX. (Training)
89-91 569th Ord. Co. Wurzburg Germany. (Direct support for 6/52 ADA HAWK Bat)
After Desert Storm 32nd AADCOM was realigned and we moved to Gieblstadt Germany and became 71st Ord. Co. HAWK Detachment.

Could these accidents have anything to do with the fact the our military is so badly understaffed the 7th Corp. (pretty much all of European Command) has been declared unfit for combat.

This is truly discouraging when you stop to think that 7th Corp. is the same group that stomped all over Iraq's Elite Republican Guard.

Multi1
03-18-2001, 12:49 PM
When you have 25+ years, you seem to get around. While I was on active duty I circumnavigated the world twice.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt!!
Not sure if I want any more!!

As a Reserve, I am semi-civilian most of the time. With assignments as I've had them, I've got to go to Hawaii eight times!!! Not bad duty, I must admit.

JohninGpt
03-18-2001, 05:51 PM
I've got 8 yrs left until I can move back to Broken Arrow. I did make it up over Christmas though, also made it to KC for the donks game, a little chilly that day, but the Schnapps helped.
My family is still in BA, my brother runs the local Honda shop, he's a big Chiefs fan also, makes it to three or four games a year.