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View Full Version : Aikman not visiting until Green deal dead, DV says dont have to trade until the draft


DaWolf
03-15-2001, 09:06 PM
http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/sports.pat,sports/377534e7.315,.html

"We're going to step back and see where Kansas City's discussions with Trent Green are and where they're going," Steinberg said. "If it works out they still have an interest, then we'd talk. Troy doesn't want to be part of a beauty contest. Troy's stance has been for that to play out first."

"We don't want to bring him in here unless we're serious," Vermeil said. "If we bring Troy in here, it's because our other young quarterback options have not worked and we're bringing him in to compete."

"There's nothing happening, but we don't have to make a deal until the day before the (April 21) draft," Vermeil said.

morphius
03-15-2001, 09:12 PM
Not bringing in Aikmen at all is the best thing that can happen. Signing him would be a huge mistake, no matter how desperite we are for a QB.

You just have to look at what happened to Denver's concusion prone backup QB a couple of years ago. He has to play and the next thing you know he is on the bench and on his way to retirement, again.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-15-2001, 09:13 PM
What do you make of that, DaWolf?

CG

doesn't read between the lines well

Chiefs Pantalones
03-15-2001, 09:14 PM
IMO, we will wind up trading for Green, but it doesn't have to be right away. Thats what I made out of it.

CG

:D

Frazod
03-15-2001, 09:15 PM
Completely agree, Morph. Hopefully Green will be riding the bench in St. Louis next year, and Aikman will be riding a rocking chair in Dallas. I don't want either of them here.

DaWolf
03-15-2001, 09:19 PM
I think the Green deal is dead. If we were not giving in before, we're not going to give in now. Unless Zygmunt is full of it and they never were listening to offers of lesser compensation like Judge assums, IE the first and the fifth. If they were willing to make that deal, and we weren't, there is no way we are willing to make a 1st and a third.

The only way this thing is alive is if that was BS and all along they've stuck with the first and third price tag. If that is so, then the price never changed, and thus a deal is still possible...

keg in kc
03-15-2001, 09:19 PM
Hmm, sounds like I'm not so crazy afterall for saying all day long that the Green trade wasn't quite as "dead" as everyone was assuming.

I'm glad they're doing this the right way (IMO) and not forcing the issue. Waiting benefits us, I think, and we can still fill other positions with FAs so long as we alott enough salary space for a starting QB. Since Green can't participate with the team until Training Camp, then why feel such a desperate need to sign him immediately and at any price. I'll be happy if we get him on draft day for the first round swap and a third or fourth, which seemed appropriate to Zygmunt by his own statement. Or maybe even do some other draft-day dealings and then make the trade.

I like the way the offseason is going so far.

Green homers, relax, you'll get your guy, and give up less than you were willing to, which is what some of us not so keen on the deal were pushing for all along (or at least I was)...

keg in kc
03-15-2001, 09:21 PM
Da Wolf, according to reports from St. Louis, Zygmunt would be willing to take a swap of firsts and a third like the Hassleback, but we only offered a swap of firsts with no other pick last night.

The deal isn't dead until both teams get up in front of the cameras and say it's dead as far as I'm concerned...

morphius
03-15-2001, 09:25 PM
Fraz - Currently I'm taking a wait and see with Green, I'm not overly fond of the whole QB shuffle we seem to go through here in KC. Of course I'm so prepaired for a horrible season that I'm not sure how much I care right now. I do know however that I hate the Rams like never before.

oleman47
03-15-2001, 09:32 PM
Keg

Where did you hear the Rams would swap firsts? I didn't see it, not disputing.

DaWolf
03-15-2001, 09:32 PM
Keg,
I don't believe those reports. If Carl didn't make that deal he was a dumbass. He would esentially be keeping a first rounder and giving up his third to fill the biggest void on the club.

To quote Zyg**** from last night:, "They see his value as Matt Hasselbeck," (IE swap firsts and give up a 3rd). "We see his value as Rob Johnson," (IE 1st and a 4th).

I don't believe not throwing in a 3rd is what killed the deal. I just think Zyg**** refuses to give anything back, he just wants our draft picks for Green...

Frazod
03-15-2001, 09:35 PM
I have nothing against Green personally - if we could just sign him I'd have no problem with it. But I don't want to send anything to St. Louis for him other than a box of dirty jockstraps. F#CK ST. LOUIS!

I too am bracing for a very unpleasant 2001 season. And of course, since I'll finally have a satellite dish, I'll get to see every painful second of it. :mad:

Hopefully 2002 will bring happier news.

keg in kc
03-15-2001, 09:38 PM
That's a different view on Zyggy's statement then I get Wolf. I see him as saying he thinks his value is like that of Hassleback and we didn't offer that, as he said in the earlier reported statement that "Green will get a Hasslebeck-style deal next year".

The thing here is whether the Rams are more concerned with trying to screw us or trying to improve their defense. As time passes and they realize that Green's 1.375 million can bring in someone solid, I think they'll be willing to deal. The impression I had from yesterday is that they weren't there to talk...

If they want to screw us, then fine, no deal. I'm not a Green homer, but I do think acquiring him for a first round swap or a couple of seconds is worth it. Anything more than that and I'll be sorely disappointed.

Like I said, until either front office comes out and says "we are done dealing with them" than I don't consider the negotiations dead. And both sides have now said that the deal could be done anytime between now and the draft...

morphius
03-15-2001, 09:40 PM
Fraz - At least you know you are not alone in your pain. I can't remember being less excited about an upcoming season. Of course as soon as the season starts I will be dying with every loss.

Frazod
03-15-2001, 09:43 PM
Morph, the upside to having low expectations is that we can be happily surprised by just about anything.

The thing that worries me the most is the moves the rest of the division are making right now. If Carl isn't careful, we'll be AFC West doormats.

morphius
03-15-2001, 09:49 PM
Keg - I think they are asking for better then Hasselbach numbers this year, and are saying that next season he will be cheaper, but not much cheaper. I think they really are looking for a first and whatever else, but they are not willing to switch or give up anything.

DaWolf
03-15-2001, 09:49 PM
you could bee right, and that's probably what Carl is banking on. I think once their draft board is set, they're going to look at what they can get vs Green, and make a decision on whether or not to part with the picks. Frankly I think if Carl doesn't get any compromise on the other side, it's dead.

But Zyg**** could just be making these statements publicly to Judge and the St Louis media so that A)He doesn't look like a bad guy for making Green lose out on his last, best chance to start in this league during his prime years, and B)To make himself look good in the event that there is a trade, being able to say "See, if they would have dealt with us earlier, I would have been happy to take less." (Sort of like when Carl had to give them the two picks for Vermiel, he said "I was more than happy to, heck if they would have just sat down and talked to me I may have given them a better deal than the commisioner did.") And then everyone in St Louis would be all over the BB talking about how Zyg**** took Carl to school, how they raped us of our draft, etc. This last part puts me right on the same boat as Frazod, I hate those arrogant St Louis bandwagon fans and don't want to help their team out one bit. But that would mean we are stuck with no QB. Sort of a quandry...

Joe Seahawk
03-15-2001, 09:51 PM
Cross state pissing match.....:)sorry


http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm2/piss2.gifstatehttp://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/cwm2/piss.gif[

keg in kc
03-15-2001, 09:53 PM
I agree with just about all of that wolf.

If they're not willing to deal, we walk, it's that simple.

I may be in the minority, and I may well be wrong, but I don't think Green is the last piece of the SB puzzle here, and I think we can survive without him if it comes to that. It's up to the Rams how greedy they want to be.

I just wish there were some FA options that were...palatable.

I have this bile at the pit of my stomach when envisioning any of these guys running the team next season.

Frazod
03-15-2001, 09:56 PM
LOL, Joe! We needed some comic relief!

oleman47
03-15-2001, 10:03 PM
I guess what I really have against Green is that if we deal for him we lose draft picks for a guy that won't be around too long but will be around just enough to screw up the qb slot for another 4-5 years. We will keep him til he falls apart because we paid these picks for him.

ExtremeChief
03-16-2001, 08:32 AM
I have been a supporter of waiting until the draft to see if Green gets cheaper, but I do have one problem. The Chiefs have already started their offseason program. I realize that Green wouldn't be able to participate until camp, but we only really have one QB on the roster. Why couldn't we bring in someone now (cheap) and let them participate??? Then he could become the #2 guy and would hedge our bet somewhat in case the Green deal never goes through. I realize we have cap issues, but we could probably get someone if we released Bush or Gray.

Idahojim
03-16-2001, 11:48 AM
What's come out today makes far more sense to me than anything we've heard to date. It's frustrating to fans because we want to know what's going to happen NOW. But when you look at what's best for Kansas City Chiefs football down the line, waiting until April 21 makes the most sense.

Troy Aikman will wait until then because he knows KC is his best option to continue playing. And I'm sure the Chiefs have told him that.

What I think they'll probably do is wait until that No. 12 selection is ready to be made. They'll see who is available at that point and then ask who will bring the most to the table - the rookie and Troy Aikman or Trent Green. If Deuce, Bennett and Tomlinson are gone, say hello to Trent Green. If they or a great defensive tackle are available, say hello to Troy.If you think about it, our options are pretty good this way. It's just the waiting as a fan that's hard to handle.

ct
03-16-2001, 02:11 PM
Absolutely agree, Idahojim!! But I also think signing one of the cheap FA QBs NOW would hedge ourselves nicely. Doesn't look good when we've got ONE qb on the roster, and he's a guy NOBODY thinks has even the slightest chance to be a starter. I prefer Beuerlien over Aikman, however.

I'd love to see us trade down to about 17-18, pick up a 2nd round pick, THEN call StLoui and offer our 1st and 3rd. That'd be a nice kick in the teeth!!

ct

tommykat
03-16-2001, 02:25 PM
I agree with the April 21st deadline. But this is wearing me thin trying to guess and wonder who is going to be a Chief and who isn't. As stated Aikman knows this is really the only place he can play and go out as Montana did. On top. You have to give Montana a lot of credit...he did get the Chiefs a bigger name than they had in a long time! Like a Mark McGurire, got me back into baseball type of thing. However, I see we can't sign Holmes because of this QB. situation. So why not just do it and get it over with. I'm thinking we all know Green will be our QB. I do have another question...under my name it said Lurker...what the heck is that?????? I'm a member not a lurker. It showed I signed in, now I feel like I should be out lurker on some BB. elsewhere. NOT~.........
Kathy

Gaz
03-16-2001, 02:42 PM
Kathy-

You remain a Lurker until you make a certain number of posts. It is nothing personal.

xoxo~
gaz
ex-lurker.

Gaz
03-16-2001, 02:50 PM
So, the answer to your situation is clear.

xoxo~
gaz
racking 'em up.

Gaz
03-16-2001, 02:51 PM
Take lots of posts to make your point.

xoxo~
gaz
leading another lost lamb out of lurkerdom.

Gaz
03-16-2001, 02:55 PM
You'll soon reach the status you crave.

xoxo~
gaz
still at it.

Gaz
03-16-2001, 02:55 PM
If you keep on posting.

xoxo~
gaz
almost done.

Gaz
03-16-2001, 02:56 PM
Burma Shave.

xoxo~
gaz
REALLY showing his age.

Red Till Dead
03-16-2001, 03:33 PM
Don't want to give up picks for Green. Sign Aikman now and plan for the draft. Aikman got killed last year because of an average offensive line, Astro Turf, and wide recievers that could not get open in single coverage. Single coverage allowed teams to blitz, recievers still could not get open, and offensive line was offensive. Aikman had to hold the ball and WAIT for reciever to get open and absolutely got KILLED. I hate the cowboys but watch them and actually felt sorry for Troy on some hits last year. Aikman can read a defense faster than Grbac, and has quicker release. If Grbac could hold up behind our offensive line, believe Aikman could as well. We need to keep our draft picks, and look for a short term QB solution.

Aikman is as painless as it gets, and he can help provide leadership on this team.

Alton deFlat
03-16-2001, 03:38 PM
Kathy
You're a "lurker" until your 30th post. You'll make it there sooner than you think. Just 25 to go. Welcome!

tommykat
03-16-2001, 03:51 PM
Hey Gaz,
Maybe I should type this all out in one words so I'm not a lurker anymore? LOL>> As for another question, I read this morning that QB.'s don't stay with a team very long anyway. Seems the average was around 3?? <<Trying to rememeber, so if that is true, then Green wouldn't be around any longer than Aikman. Hum.....I don't care for Aikman only for the reason of being a cowboy, but this almost seems more logical to sign him then doesn't it? At least for the first game and he is knocked out agian, and then we only have Collins! LMAO....Even in Springfield on the news the keep saying the CHIEFS are in trouble this year, and when are they going to sign a QB??? Let's be real, my city is a big Chief/Ram fan town. More CHIEFS no doubt, but this is making KC look like fools! Not to mention my flag flying and the mailbox I made and milkcan I painted with Calvin and Hobbs on it pissing on the Raiders helmet. I'm chocking here!!!!!!! HELP!