PDA

View Full Version : Animal lovers beware!!!


Carlota69
04-02-2007, 12:59 PM
Dogs and cats are dying all over the place due to this pet food poisoning.

here's the deal from a local vet here in Vegas:

STOP FEEDING YOUR ANIMAL PET FOOD!

The vet says whats happening is just the tip of the iceberg. There are things going on that we dont know--think about it....this is corporate america..they dont want too much of a scare. This is what my co-workers vet is saying. So, stop feeding whatever your brand is to your animal. This same co-worker had to put his dog down and his food wasn't on the list. Until this thing is over feed your pet human food--

Dogs: Chicken with cooked brown rice and a little bit of vegetables--feed them carrots as treats..peanut butter in the Kongs..Caution with dogs--make sure you know what foods to not feed them--onions, brocccoli, chocolate etc...

Cats: canned chicken/tuna whatever..

Also, you may want to take you pet in for blood work just to check their kidney and liver functions...

This is no bullshit!

penguinz
04-02-2007, 01:01 PM
BS

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:01 PM
Links or nuthooks


regardless, both will hurt

JBucc
04-02-2007, 01:03 PM
I bet Peta infiltrated all the major dog food companies and poisoned all the food.

Donger
04-02-2007, 01:03 PM
This same co-worker had to put his dog down and his food wasn't on the list.

Now there's some fun logic.

Until this thing is over feed your pet human food--

This message brought to you by Tyson Chicken.

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:04 PM
In related news...Antifreeze sales have quadrupled this quarter compared to last quarter.

trndobrd
04-02-2007, 01:07 PM
Quit feeding the dog. Problem solved.

vailpass
04-02-2007, 01:08 PM
Just test your dog food out on any neghborhood cat. If the cat lives the food is safe for your dog. If that cat dies you have done a community service.

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:08 PM
What about hand grenades....those arent on the list...can we feed them those?

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:09 PM
Sounds like the dog days of summer are here....

Wile_E_Coyote
04-02-2007, 01:10 PM
You know a few lightbulbs went on above some heads. What a great opportunity to get rid of the dog that barks all night or the cat that shits in flower bed

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:10 PM
www.weather.com is reporting that somewhere this week it will be raining cats and dogs

Demonpenz
04-02-2007, 01:15 PM
whew i hate animals glad it doesn't effect me.

CosmicPal
04-02-2007, 01:16 PM
There's nothing wrong with feeding your dog broccoli.

I do feed my dog human foods: chicken, tofu, brown rice, cottage cheese, liver, oatmeal, peas, and eggs. Every once in awhile he'll get spinach and broccoli all shredded up.

Drop some flax seed oil on his food as well....

Braincase
04-02-2007, 01:21 PM
Meh. I feed mine Hill's Science Diet. No problems in Topeka.

NewChief
04-02-2007, 01:23 PM
Meh. I feed mine Hill's Science Diet. No problems in Topeka.

I used to feed mine Science Diet. Then I saw some truck on the side of the road that was selling a bunch of "cuts and gravy" pouches from Menu foods for pennies. Mine is eating like a champ these days.

Buddy Rich
04-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Does anyone have a link to a **** or ***** newspaper with warnings about eating contaminated cats or dogs? that would be pretty funny.

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:27 PM
Regarding pets....


Never eat at the chinese buffet in Lawrence that is right next door to the pet shelter

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 01:29 PM
Does anyone have a link to a Gook or Chink newspaper with warnings about eating contaminated cats or dogs? that would be pretty funny.


Racist bitch

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-02-2007, 01:32 PM
I wish my damn cat would get ahold of some of the tainted shit.

I don't believe these claims for a second though. So far, none of the dry food has been affected although a few manufacturers have pulled some dry food as a precaution. I do live ads with a local vet here twice a week on my show and he's very informed on all of this. He hasn't hit the panic button yet. I'll ask him off air first what he thinks about this.

Buddy Rich
04-02-2007, 01:34 PM
Racist bitch

I not meen to hurt your feerings.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 01:35 PM
I bet Peta infiltrated all the major dog food companies and poisoned all the food.:clap:

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 01:37 PM
I wish my damn cat would get ahold of some of the tainted shit.

I don't believe these claims for a second though. So far, none of the dry food has been affected although a few manufacturers have pulled some dry food as a precaution. I do live ads with a local vet here twice a week on my show and he's very informed on all of this. He hasn't hit the panic button yet. I'll ask him off air first what he thinks about this.They have pinned it down to dirty Wheat Gluten supplied from China.

Now that is funny. A Kansas dog food plant using wheat gluten from China.

Fire Me Boy!
04-02-2007, 01:39 PM
I haven't read all this, but feeding your dog/cat/other human food is not a good idea either! Their nutritional needs are NOT the same as humans and feeding them a lot of human food is a bad idea! Too much protein and they'll have kidney problems... too much fat, they'll have pancreatitis... be very careful!

Fire Me Boy!
04-02-2007, 01:40 PM
They have pinned it down to dirty Wheat Gluten supplied from China.

Now that is funny. A Kansas dog food plant using wheat gluten from China.
Specifically, they pinned it down to rodent poison that got on the raw wheat... that when processed turned into gluten.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 01:40 PM
meh, just make sure the pet food you use doesn't contain wheat gluten.

Why in the hell would someone feed their pet wheat gluten anyway?

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-02-2007, 01:42 PM
They have pinned it down to dirty Wheat Gluten supplied from China.

Now that is funny. A Kansas dog food plant using wheat gluten from China.
Actually the vet and I talked about that last week. He wondered why we get wheat products from China and I said isn't that what we have Kansas for?

HemiEd
04-02-2007, 01:43 PM
My dog will vomit instantly, by eating just the slightest bit of human food.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-02-2007, 01:43 PM
I haven't read all this, but feeding your dog/cat/other human food is not a good idea either! Their nutritional needs are NOT the same as humans and feeding them a lot of human food is a bad idea! Too much protein and they'll have kidney problems... too much fat, they'll have pancreatitis... be very careful!
Glad someone pointed that out.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 01:45 PM
I wish my damn cat would get ahold of some of the tainted shit.

I don't believe these claims for a second though. So far, none of the dry food has been affected although a few manufacturers have pulled some dry food as a precaution. I do live ads with a local vet here twice a week on my show and he's very informed on all of this. He hasn't hit the panic button yet. I'll ask him off air first what he thinks about this.

Wheat gluten is used as a thickening agent. It stands to reason that it's only used in "wet" food, as dry food isn't a liquid that requires thickening.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 01:45 PM
Specifically, they pinned it down to rodent poison that got on the raw wheat... that when processed turned into gluten.

Actually it's not rat poison.

It's a chemical used in the manufacture of plastic.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Wheat gluten is used as a thickening agent. It stands to reason that it's only used in "wet" food, as dry food isn't a liquid that requires thickening.

Indeed. Most foods affected are "gravy types" and canned foods.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 01:55 PM
Indeed. Most foods affected are "gravy types" and canned foods.

The only problem is that wheat gluten is also high in protein IIRC and could be used in place of soy as a meat-substitute or filler. Which means dry food isn't immune.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 01:56 PM
I am making all my own food now. It's really easy I'm not sure why more people don't do it.

Braincase
04-02-2007, 01:57 PM
I am making all my own food now. It's really easy I'm not sure why more people don't do it.

Because we don't live next door to a bunch of illegal aliens that won't call the police if a cousin goes missing.

ct
04-02-2007, 01:59 PM
I suspect Bob Barker is the culprit.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 01:59 PM
I haven't read all this, but feeding your dog/cat/other human food is not a good idea either! Their nutritional needs are NOT the same as humans and feeding them a lot of human food is a bad idea! Too much protein and they'll have kidney problems... too much fat, they'll have pancreatitis... be very careful!

You would do better feeding your dog Taco Bell than what's in most dog food.

Bad Dog Food
Ladies and gentleman, hold on to your hats. We’re about to tell you what bad dog food is, what’s in it, and who makes it. It’s not pretty.



The major dog food manufacturers are producing nothing but bad dog food. That may seem to be a grandiose claim, but there is a plethora of evidence to prove it. Behind the colorful bags, the jingles, the slogans, the commercials – major dog food brands supply one thing: bad dog food. It’s an injustice to all dogs and dog lovers. What these producers of bad dog food are really offering your favorite furry friend is a foul admixture of disgusting by-products and a cornucopia of toxic chemicals.



When cattle, chickens, lambs, swine, and other animals are slaughtered for food, it’s common that just the lean muscle is cut and used for human consumption. The left over carcass is then sent to a rendering plant, along with all the other waste that is around. This foul mess is rendered and will soon become bad dog food. What this amounts to is an appalling mixture of chicken feet, dead animals, euthanized dogs and cats, lungs, ligaments, beaks, teeth, intestines, and more. This bad dog food is cleaned up with the all-encompassing label of “meat-and-bone meal” and “by-products” on the outside of the bag.



Have you heard of the “4 D’s”? The “4 D’s” encompass the kind of cattle that are sent to rendering plants:

Dead
Dying
Diseased
Disabled
When all of this putrid material comes to the rendering plant, it's put in a huge vat and shredded. It’s then cooked at 220 to 270 degrees for 20 to 60 minutes. After it cools, the grease is skimmed off the top. This is "animal fat." The rest is pressed and dried. This is what’s called "meat and bone meal” and “by-products” – otherwise known as bad dog food.



Who’s Responsible?



Huge corporate conglomerates use pet food companies as a cheap and profitable way to dispose of waste produced by their human food companies:



Corporation
Pet Food Brands




Nestle
Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Purina One

Heinz
9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe

Colgate-Palmolive
Hill's Science Diet

Proctor & Gamble
Eukanuba, Iams

Mars
Kal Kan, Mealtime, Pedigree, Sheba, Waltham's



So why do dogs eat this bad dog food? Their senses are being duped. To make this bad dog food pleasing to the eyes and noses of our canine pals is nothing more than a lesson in chemistry.



Some of the chemicals used in pet food include:

BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
BHT (butylated hydroxytolulene) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
Ethoxyquin - suspected of causing cancer
Propylene glycol - causes the destruction of red blood cells
Some other things that may be added to bad dog food are:

Coloring agents
Drying agents
Flavoring agents
Lubricants
Texturizers
So who’s responsible? Who allows such practices to continue unabated? Who regulates the pet food industry? The answer is:

PFI – The Pet Food Institute
AAFCO – Association of American Feed Control Officials
FDA/CVM – The Food and Drug Administration Center for Veterinary Medicine
These agencies profess standards and measures for dog food manufacturers to uphold, but they DO NOT have the authority to enforce them. Therefore, there are no assurances of the quality of ingredients that the major dog food manufacturers are putting into their bad dog food.



At The Dog Bowl, nothing is more important than your pets’ health. For more information about bad dog food, and to shop for good dog food click here.

Redrum_69
04-02-2007, 02:03 PM
This is just God's way of clearing out the pitbulls

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 02:08 PM
I see the point in what you posted there, BD, and for the most part I agree.

But I have to take exception to the idea that these large corporations view pet food as a means to dispose of the waste from their "human" food operations.

The whole crux of this recall is a THIRD PARTY manufacturer (Menu Foods) who is manufacturing food on BEHALF of these companies.

For instance, the list you posted lists Proctor and Gamble and their pet food brands, Iams and Eukanuba.

We know FOR A FACT that "wet" brands of Iams and Eukanuba are made by MENU FOODS, not P&G.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 02:10 PM
I've been feeding my Labs raw food for about 2 years now, Big Daddy. You can really see the difference in their energy levels and the shine of their coat.

I do feed them dry food every now and then, but, I make sure it is an organic, such as, Timberwolf (http://www.timberwolforganics.com)

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:14 PM
Wheat gluten is used as a thickening agent. It stands to reason that it's only used in "wet" food, as dry food isn't a liquid that requires thickening.It is also this thickening that produces all of this "savory chunks", or gravy "sauce" type canned foods.

This is stuff that is directly marketed to the emotional needs of the pet owner, NOT the pet. I found it very surprising to find companies like Science Diet, Iams/Eukanuba, and Nutro on the list of companies that have foods manufactured to appeal to the whims of a human being rather than the pets they purport to cater to. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised because Hills, originally founded by Vets in Kansas of all places, was purchased by Colgate Palmolive back in the late 80's or early 90's. Iams was more recently purchased by Proctor and Gamble and Nutro has long proven themselves whores as well by catering to large retailers like Petsmart.

The whole philosophy that these companies operated under, was to educate the consumer on making a better nutritional choice for their pets. What a crock of shit that turned out to be for these conglomerates that now control most of the pet food industry. "Get us OUR slice of that gravy and sauce pie! NUTRO SHALL HAVE A SLICE OF IT TOO!" They cried, and cried, and cried.

MOhillbilly
04-02-2007, 02:15 PM
Diamond did the samething and you didnt hear awhole lot about but you get some trendy dogfood and it kills upper middle class ladies poodle and it a big ****in deal.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:19 PM
You would do better feeding your dog Taco Bell than what's in most dog food.

Bad Dog Food
Ladies and gentleman, hold on to your hats. We’re about to tell you what bad dog food is, what’s in it, and who makes it. It’s not pretty.



The major dog food manufacturers are producing nothing but bad dog food. That may seem to be a grandiose claim, but there is a plethora of evidence to prove it. Behind the colorful bags, the jingles, the slogans, the commercials – major dog food brands supply one thing: bad dog food. It’s an injustice to all dogs and dog lovers. What these producers of bad dog food are really offering your favorite furry friend is a foul admixture of disgusting by-products and a cornucopia of toxic chemicals.



When cattle, chickens, lambs, swine, and other animals are slaughtered for food, it’s common that just the lean muscle is cut and used for human consumption. The left over carcass is then sent to a rendering plant, along with all the other waste that is around. This foul mess is rendered and will soon become bad dog food. What this amounts to is an appalling mixture of chicken feet, dead animals, euthanized dogs and cats, lungs, ligaments, beaks, teeth, intestines, and more. This bad dog food is cleaned up with the all-encompassing label of “meat-and-bone meal” and “by-products” on the outside of the bag.



Have you heard of the “4 D’s”? The “4 D’s” encompass the kind of cattle that are sent to rendering plants:

Dead
Dying
Diseased
Disabled
When all of this putrid material comes to the rendering plant, it's put in a huge vat and shredded. It’s then cooked at 220 to 270 degrees for 20 to 60 minutes. After it cools, the grease is skimmed off the top. This is "animal fat." The rest is pressed and dried. This is what’s called "meat and bone meal” and “by-products” – otherwise known as bad dog food.



Who’s Responsible?



Huge corporate conglomerates use pet food companies as a cheap and profitable way to dispose of waste produced by their human food companies:



Corporation
Pet Food Brands




Nestle
Alpo, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Purina One

Heinz
9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits, Nature's Recipe

Colgate-Palmolive
Hill's Science Diet

Proctor & Gamble
Eukanuba, Iams

Mars
Kal Kan, Mealtime, Pedigree, Sheba, Waltham's



So why do dogs eat this bad dog food? Their senses are being duped. To make this bad dog food pleasing to the eyes and noses of our canine pals is nothing more than a lesson in chemistry.



Some of the chemicals used in pet food include:

BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
BHT (butylated hydroxytolulene) - known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction
Ethoxyquin - suspected of causing cancer
Propylene glycol - causes the destruction of red blood cells
Some other things that may be added to bad dog food are:

Coloring agents
Drying agents
Flavoring agents
Lubricants
Texturizers
So who’s responsible? Who allows such practices to continue unabated? Who regulates the pet food industry? The answer is:

PFI – The Pet Food Institute
AAFCO – Association of American Feed Control Officials
FDA/CVM – The Food and Drug Administration Center for Veterinary Medicine
These agencies profess standards and measures for dog food manufacturers to uphold, but they DO NOT have the authority to enforce them. Therefore, there are no assurances of the quality of ingredients that the major dog food manufacturers are putting into their bad dog food.



At The Dog Bowl, nothing is more important than your pets’ health. For more information about bad dog food, and to shop for good dog food click here.Most of my food, is by-product free, corn free, and wheat free.

Of course, I am a businessman as well, and if some broke dummie wants to feed his dog cheap stuff I am going to make a buck on it.

I have first hand knowledge what poultry by-products are, since I have processed hundreds of chickens and Turkeys.

I also now, have first hand knowledge on gutting, splitting, and finally cutting lambs into chops and roasts.

Got to love those by-products. Dog food companies have been cleaning up the bellies of slaughterhouses for generations.

Carlota69
04-02-2007, 02:24 PM
Well all I know is this--My co-worker feed his English bulldog Iams dry food. His dog suffered from kidney failure due to some sort of poisoning. According to his vet, things are going to get worse. "the list" gets longer everyday, and until things get cleared up to feed your dog, or cat, the foods I talked about in another post.

Now, I for one, would rather be safe than sorry. So, i will be feeding my babies chicken and rice Until further notice...

Now i posted this to spread the word and to be helpful. it is HUGE news here in vegas because dogs and cats are dying like crazy due to this food problem.

So, if you wan to act like 12 yr olds and make stupid jokes--have fun--But I would want this info becasue I love my dogs..

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:25 PM
Diamond did the samething and you didnt hear awhole lot about but you get some trendy dogfood and it kills upper middle class ladies poodle and it a big ****in deal.What goes arround, comes arround.

You should have seen all the gloating sales reps from these other companies who NOW have to eat the shit sandwich.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:27 PM
Well all I know is this--My co-worker feed his English bulldog Iams dry food. His dog suffered from kidney failure due to some sort of poisoning. According to his vet, things are going to get worse. "the list" gets longer everyday, and until things get cleared up to feed your dog, or cat, the foods I talked about in another post.

Now, I for one, would rather be safe than sorry. So, i will be feeding my babies chicken and rice Until further notice...

Now i posted this to spread the word and to be helpful. it is HUGE news here in vegas because dogs and cats are dying like crazy due to this food problem.

So, if you wan to act like 12 yr olds and make stupid jokes--have fun--But I would want this info becasue I love my dogs..Why stop there, I think I will feed my bitch a live chicken tonight.

Ought to be fun.

MOhillbilly
04-02-2007, 02:28 PM
What goes arround, comes arround.

You should have seen all the gloating sales reps from these other companies who NOW have to eat the shit sandwich.

as much as i dont want to pay for the start up cost im gonna do like BD and go off the reservation and start feeding keep feed 24-7.

penguinz
04-02-2007, 02:29 PM
Unfortunately my wifes cat is safe :(

n fact, Iams and Eukanuba dry pet foods to DO NOT contain wheat gluten. Our dry dog and cat foods are made exclusively by P&G Pet Care and not by Menu Foods.

http://us.eukanuba.com/eukanuba/global/EukanubaNews.htm

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 02:30 PM
Well all I know is this--My co-worker feed his English bulldog Iams dry food. His dog suffered from kidney failure due to some sort of poisoning. According to his vet, things are going to get worse. "the list" gets longer everyday, and until things get cleared up to feed your dog, or cat, the foods I talked about in another post.

Now, I for one, would rather be safe than sorry. So, i will be feeding my babies chicken and rice Until further notice...

Now i posted this to spread the word and to be helpful. it is HUGE news here in vegas because dogs and cats are dying like crazy due to this food problem.

So, if you wan to act like 12 yr olds and make stupid jokes--have fun--But I would want this info becasue I love my dogs..

Kidney failure is a fairly (as far as systemic conditions go) common ailment in small animals, particularly cats and some small breeds of dogs. It could be caused by any number of things, including feeding them too much protein. Hundreds of thousands of animals will die this year from kidney failure that had nothing to do with being "poisoned" by contaminated wheat gluten. That's an awfully large leap.

Furthermore, dogs and cats are not "dying like crazy" in Vegas or anywhere else. This is indeed an unfortunate and scary situation for pet owners everywhere, but this type of "mass hysteria" doesn't help anyone or any pet. In most cases, all you do by spreading misinformation is mask the truth, leading to more problems.

I don't blame you for feeding your pets homemade food, many people are doing it and I'm considering it myself.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 02:32 PM
Unfortunately my wifes cat is safe :(

n fact, Iams and Eukanuba dry pet foods to DO NOT contain wheat gluten. Our dry dog and cat foods are made exclusively by P&G Pet Care and not by Menu Foods.

http://us.eukanuba.com/eukanuba/global/EukanubaNews.htm

There you go Carlota. Your co-worker's dog almost certainly did not die from eating Iams dry dog food.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 02:33 PM
I've been feeding my Labs raw food for about 2 years now, Big Daddy. You can really see the difference in their energy levels and the shine of their coat.

I do feed them dry food every now and then, but, I make sure it is an organic, such as, Timberwolf (http://www.timberwolforganics.com)


Yea I was using Candidae. The last bag I got upset his intestines and that's never happened before. I noticed it right off the bat and that was when this pet food story broke. I'm bringing that food back. I will supplement what I make for him now. He had ground Turkey and eggs this weekend I have a pot of puppy chicken cooking right now and will add brown rice. When I cook for him his coat is super shiney too.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 02:33 PM
Well all I know is this--My co-worker feed his English bulldog Iams dry food. His dog suffered from kidney failure due to some sort of poisoning. According to his vet, things are going to get worse. "the list" gets longer everyday, and until things get cleared up to feed your dog, or cat, the foods I talked about in another post.

Now, I for one, would rather be safe than sorry. So, i will be feeding my babies chicken and rice Until further notice...

Now i posted this to spread the word and to be helpful. it is HUGE news here in vegas because dogs and cats are dying like crazy due to this food problem.

So, if you wan to act like 12 yr olds and make stupid jokes--have fun--But I would want this info becasue I love my dogs..

Like I said earlier, just check the label and make sure the food doesn't contain wheat gluten.

Nzoner
04-02-2007, 02:42 PM
My dog will vomit instantly, by eating just the slightest bit of human food.

Damned if I didn't think of the dog hacking on the bone in Christmas Vacation,thanks,I needed a good laugh.

Carlota69
04-02-2007, 02:42 PM
Kidney failure is a fairly (as far as systemic conditions go) common ailment in small animals, particularly cats and some small breeds of dogs. It could be caused by any number of things, including feeding them too much protein. Hundreds of thousands of animals will die this year from kidney failure that had nothing to do with being "poisoned" by contaminated wheat gluten. That's an awfully large leap.

Furthermore, dogs and cats are not "dying like crazy" in Vegas or anywhere else. This is indeed an unfortunate and scary situation for pet owners everywhere, but this type of "mass hysteria" doesn't help anyone or any pet. In most cases, all you do by spreading misinformation is mask the truth, leading to more problems.

I don't blame you for feeding your pets homemade food, many people are doing it and I'm considering it myself.

This is the third dog that I know of that has gone through this in the past 2 weeks...a co-worker, and 2 co-workers girlfriends' dogs...and according ot the vet here in Vegas--yes they are. There are alot of problems here in Vegas. So you may know what you know, but here in Vegas, this is what is going on.

So, are you a Vet ot something? How do you know all? I'm just relaying what was told to me--it's not misinformation, unless the vet here is lying or unqualified.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 02:43 PM
Like I said earlier, just check the label and make sure the food doesn't contain wheat gluten.

Just make your own food already. I can feed my dog home made grub he absolutely loves that is awesome for him for only $12 a week. What I really need to do is get some chickens from bunnytrdr and it will almost cost me nothing. The live food thing has to mildly entertaining as well. :)

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 02:45 PM
This is the third dog that I know of that has gone through this in the past 2 weeks...a co-worker, and 2 co-workers girlfriends' dogs...and according ot the vet here in Vegas--yes they are. There are alot of problems here in Vegas. So you may know what you know, but here in Vegas, this is what is going on.

So, are you a Vet ot something? How do you know all? I'm just relaying what was told to me--it's not misinformation, unless the vet here is lying or unqualified.


Just get a crock pot girl. Sounds like you love your dogs enough to feed them home cooking.

keg in kc
04-02-2007, 02:45 PM
It could be caused by any number of things, including feeding them too much protein.That's why so many sheep die of kidney failure in Arkansas.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Kidney failure is a fairly (as far as systemic conditions go) common ailment in small animals, particularly cats and some small breeds of dogs. It could be caused by any number of things, including feeding them too much protein. Hundreds of thousands of animals will die this year from kidney failure that had nothing to do with being "poisoned" by contaminated wheat gluten. That's an awfully large leap.

Furthermore, dogs and cats are not "dying like crazy" in Vegas or anywhere else. This is indeed an unfortunate and scary situation for pet owners everywhere, but this type of "mass hysteria" doesn't help anyone or any pet. In most cases, all you do by spreading misinformation is mask the truth, leading to more problems.

I don't blame you for feeding your pets homemade food, many people are doing it and I'm considering it myself.No kidding. I guess the war in Iraq is over now, the media has moved on to more entertaining topics. I guess the air went out of Anna Nicoles boobs by now.

vailpass
04-02-2007, 02:50 PM
That's why so many sheep die of kidney failure in Arkansas.
ROFL :hmmm: :doh!:

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:50 PM
Yea I was using Candidae. The last bag I got upset his intestines and that's never happened before. I noticed it right off the bat and that was when this pet food story broke. I'm bringing that food back. I will supplement what I make for him now. He had ground Turkey and eggs this weekend I have a pot of puppy chicken cooking right now and will add brown rice. When I cook for him his coat is super shiney too.Canidae is not a part of the recall, but they contract the manufacture of their product to a third party IIRC.

Carlota69
04-02-2007, 02:50 PM
Just get a crock pot girl. Sounds like you love your dogs enough to feed them home cooking.
Thats exactly what I am going to do.

Better sfe than sorry and peace of mind, that's what I'm all about.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 02:51 PM
Just make your own food already. I can feed my dog home made grub he absolutely loves that is awesome for him for only $12 a week. What I really need to do is get some chickens from bunnytrdr and it will almost cost me nothing. The live food thing has to mildly entertaining as well. :)


Meh, most people won't take the time to do what you and I do for our dogs.

I just try to get people to take the time to read the label and hopefully, their curiosity will get them to find out what each of these ingredients are. I mean, looking at a bag of Eukanuba Large Breed should make you wonder whether feeding so much corn meal is beneficial for your pet, right?

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 02:52 PM
Meh, most people won't take the time to do what you and I do for our dogs.

I just try to get people to take the time to read the label and hopefully, their curiosity will get them to find out what each of these ingredients are. I mean, looking at a bag of Eukanuba Large Breed should make you wonder whether feeding so much corn meal is beneficial for your pet, right?Yeah, you can just get ole roy for that.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 02:56 PM
Meh, most people won't take the time to do what you and I do for our dogs.

I just try to get people to take the time to read the label and hopefully, their curiosity will get them to find out what each of these ingredients are. I mean, looking at a bag of Eukanuba Large Breed should make you wonder whether feeding so much corn meal is beneficial for your pet, right?


You would think. You're right though, people are so friggen lazy they won't even cook for themself much less their dog even though it only takes a little time.

I made food for sisters dogs when we were at the coast. She saw how easy it was and has done it ever sense. They had problems where she is at as well now. She is totally happy that they started cooking for them now. They really love that shit too like 10k times more than any dog food.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 02:57 PM
Yeah, you can just get ole roy for that.

What are you charging for those baby chickens again?

ceebz
04-02-2007, 02:59 PM
You would think. You're right though, people are so friggen lazy they won't even cook for themself much less their dog even though it only takes a little time.

I made food for sisters dogs when we were at the coast. She saw how easy it was and has done it ever sense. They had problems where she is at as well now. She is totally happy that they started cooking for them now. They really love that shit too like 10k times more than any dog food.


Oh yeah, I'm sure they do. Any dog would love eating real food more than processed corn meal and animal digest.


What do you do for your pit's teeth? RMB's?

HemiEd
04-02-2007, 03:00 PM
Damned if I didn't think of the dog hacking on the bone in Christmas Vacation,thanks,I needed a good laugh.

Glad I could help! :D

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 03:02 PM
Oh yeah, I'm sure they do. Any dog would love eating real food more than processed corn meal and animal digest.


What do you do for your pit's teeth? RMB's?

Believe it or not I brush them a couple times during the week. Once again it only takes a minute. I need to do it more now that I started doing this though. He has the chew toys too.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 03:04 PM
Just make sure if you're making your own dog food that you're supplementing the food with something hard, like bone.

Otherwise, their teeth don't get the proper care they need.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 03:06 PM
This is the third dog that I know of that has gone through this in the past 2 weeks...a co-worker, and 2 co-workers girlfriends' dogs...and according ot the vet here in Vegas--yes they are. There are alot of problems here in Vegas. So you may know what you know, but here in Vegas, this is what is going on.

So, are you a Vet ot something? How do you know all? I'm just relaying what was told to me--it's not misinformation, unless the vet here is lying or unqualified.

My parents raised dogs for years, but that's really immaterial.

I know how to read and I'm familiar with basic reasoning.

Iams dry dog food does not contain wheat gluten. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that this particular problem with tainted food killed your co-worker's dog.

I'm fairly comfortable in this case saying that the vet you've been talking to, while probably well-qualified, is feeding hysteria rather than doing careful research.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 03:08 PM
Believe it or not I brush them a couple times during the week. Once again it only takes a minute. I need to do it more now that I started doing this though. He has the chew toys too.


I've never brushed either of my dog's teeth. I give them raw beef ribs once a week or so, and it keeps their teeth in great condition. Plus, it's a good treat and it keeps them busy for an hour or so.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 03:10 PM
I've never brushed either of my dog's teeth. I give them raw beef ribs once a week or so, and it keeps their teeth in great condition. Plus, it's a good treat and it keeps them busy for an hour or so.

Cool, I'll pick up a couple bones today. He'll be happy with that. I've always given an occasional bone but I'll be more diligent about it moving forward.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 03:12 PM
My parents raised dogs for years, but that's really immaterial.

I know how to read and I'm familiar with basic reasoning.

Iams dry dog food does not contain wheat gluten. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that this particular problem with tainted food killed your co-worker's dog.

I'm fairly comfortable in this case saying that the vet you've been talking to, while probably well-qualified, is feeding hysteria rather than doing careful research.

Vets aren't qualified nutritionists anyway. Most of their nutrition training comes from Proctor & Gamble or Hill's.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 03:15 PM
Cool, I'll pick up a couple bones today. He'll be happy with that. I've always given an occasional bone but I'll be more diligent about it moving forward.


If he isn't real experienced with bones, make sure to keep watch while he's chewing/eating it.

Also, you probably know this, but, for anyone thinking about giving bones to their dogs, never give them cooked bones. They splinter and will cause major problems in the dog's digestive tract...

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 03:18 PM
If he isn't real experienced with bones, make sure to keep watch while he's chewing/eating it.

Also, you probably know this, but, for anyone thinking about giving bones to their dogs, never give them cooked bones. They splinter and will cause major problems in the dog's digestive tract...

Yep. Cooked bones will splinter.

Also, small dogs (except dogs with strong jaws like Boston's) usually do better with pork ribs because of the size. My yorkie likes pork ribs. However, big dogs or strong-jawed dogs will shatter pork ribs, my BT was terrible about it. Give them beef ribs instead.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 03:19 PM
Vets aren't qualified nutritionists anyway. Most of their nutrition training comes from Proctor & Gamble or Hill's.

It's the same reason why your doctor is always trying to put you on the latest anti-depressant.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 03:27 PM
If he isn't real experienced with bones, make sure to keep watch while he's chewing/eating it.

Also, you probably know this, but, for anyone thinking about giving bones to their dogs, never give them cooked bones. They splinter and will cause major problems in the dog's digestive tract...

Yea I got that. :thumb: They give me great big beef bones and he loves them. I gotta find a cheaper place to get them though.

Delano
04-02-2007, 03:31 PM
Could those of you advocating a raw diet provide any links please?

Also, Bunnytrdr, what kinds of dry dog food do you recommend?

NewChief
04-02-2007, 03:37 PM
Could those of you advocating a raw diet provide any links please?

Also, Bunnytrdr, what kinds of dry dog food do you recommend?

Google BARF diet.

Lzen
04-02-2007, 03:52 PM
You know a few lightbulbs went on above some heads. What a great opportunity to get rid of the dog that barks all night or the cat that shits in flower bed
Hey, thanks for the idea. :D

stumppy
04-02-2007, 03:56 PM
I do feed them dry food every now and then, but, I make sure it is an organic, such as, Timberwolf (http://www.timberwolforganics.com)


Thanks for the link. Ordered some for my beagles.

ceebz
04-02-2007, 04:00 PM
Could those of you advocating a raw diet provide any links please?

Also, Bunnytrdr, what kinds of dry dog food do you recommend?

I know this wasn't directed at me but, I would recommend Timberwolf Organics. (http://www.timberwolforganics.com) I use it and it's one of the few kibbles my dogs will eat. What I really like about it is the different meat sources in their line. When I was feeding TO exclusively, I switched meat sources every new bag.

Spott
04-02-2007, 04:04 PM
Just to be safe, I fed my cat some antifreeze to ward off the effects of tainted food.

htismaqe
04-02-2007, 04:08 PM
We feed Royal Canin right now, but I might give this TO a try.

My Yorkie can't eat anything without getting the shits...

Lzen
04-02-2007, 04:22 PM
http://petsitusa.com/blog/?p=210

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 04:54 PM
What are you charging for those baby chickens again?No UPS sales, but pullets are going for 1.99 ea. these days. Price of everything is going up due to the increased demand for corn.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 04:55 PM
My parents raised dogs for years, but that's really immaterial.

I know how to read and I'm familiar with basic reasoning.

Iams dry dog food does not contain wheat gluten. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that this particular problem with tainted food killed your co-worker's dog.

I'm fairly comfortable in this case saying that the vet you've been talking to, while probably well-qualified, is feeding hysteria rather than doing careful research.Couldn't agree more. Many vets have been known to embellish any situation that will improve their wallets.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 04:57 PM
No UPS sales, but pullets are going for 1.99 ea. these days. Price of everything is going up due to the increased demand for corn.


How long does it take them to mature?

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 04:58 PM
It's the same reason why your doctor is always trying to put you on the latest anti-depressant.ummm, because Phizer is funding the new wing in the Hospital?

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 05:02 PM
Could those of you advocating a raw diet provide any links please?

Also, Bunnytrdr, what kinds of dry dog food do you recommend?To the budget concious, I reccomend Diamond Naturals, no corn no byproduct w/omega 6/3 acids. Reasonable price and decent food.

To the higher end client, or one who wants really good food I reccoment Canidae all life stage, or Chicken Soup.

Lets face it, business is business. I have to reccomend something that is good(ethics) while at the same time is profitable to MOI,(exclusivity to my store).

The chumps can get Iams anywhere. BTW, they are on the recall list.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 05:09 PM
How long does it take them to mature?You want "Rock Cornish Cross", A.K.A. "Meat Birds".

They take only 7 weeks to grow into tender and juicy fryers. Of course, you can feed the fresh by-products to your dog while they are still warm from the kill.

What is a by-product? Well, first you take a Chicken, then you hang it up in a cone shaped piece of sheet metal, then you take a nice, high quality knife that has been sharpened and cut the head completely off, let dangle for a minute or two to let the blood drain.

The Chicken head is your very first "by-product" with many more to follow.

I have it all very well visualized and can articulate it for the rest of you if you are curious.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 05:16 PM
You want "Rock Cornish Cross", A.K.A. "Meat Birds".

They take only 7 weeks to grow into tender and juicy fryers. Of course, you can feed the fresh by-products to your dog while they are still warm from the kill.

What is a by-product? Well, first you take a Chicken, then you hang it up in a cone shaped piece of sheet metal, then you take a nice, high quality nice that has been sharpened and cut the head completely off, let dangle for a minute or two to let the blood drain.

The Chicken head is your very first "by-product" with many more to follow.

I have it all very well visualized and can articulate it for the rest of you if you are curious.

ROFL I've wacked chickens before. ROFL And pigs and goats and.......


I will probably move before I consider this but I just might then. It's hard to justify when I'm getting fresh rockies for about $6

kcfanintitanhell
04-02-2007, 05:20 PM
Just make sure if you're making your own dog food that you're supplementing the food with something hard, like bone.

Otherwise, their teeth don't get the proper care they need.

Like I posted in a previous thread, we feed both our dogs raw food. For their teeth, we go to a grocery store and get big soupbones and give them those. They work on them for hours.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 05:21 PM
ROFL I've wacked chickens before. ROFL And pigs and goats and.......


I will probably move before I consider this but I just might then. It's hard to justify when I'm getting fresh rockies for about $6The sheep were awesome. Roitisseried loin chops, :drool:.

Man those things sure do pump a lot of blood out when their throat is slit.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 05:22 PM
Like I posted in a previous thread, we feed both our dogs raw food. For their teeth, we go to a grocery store and get big soupbones and give them those. They work on them for hours.Bones from the butcher gather bacteria rather quickly and should be discarded no longer than a few hours after poochie has been slobbering on them.

BIG_DADDY
04-02-2007, 05:31 PM
The sheep were awesome. Roitisseried loin chops, :drool:.

Man those things sure do pump a lot of blood out when their throat is slit.

We caught a baby bore once and raised it for awhile. When we wacked it the beast was completely drained of blood and still kept following us with his eyes kept trying to get us. Friggen amazing.

BucEyedPea
04-02-2007, 05:41 PM
The sheep were awesome. Roitisseried loin chops, :drool:.

Man those things sure do pump a lot of blood out when their throat is slit.
Yummm, my favorite Easter meal, is rack of lamb! :drool:
Just don't eat any cute bunnies this week.

kcfanintitanhell
04-02-2007, 05:43 PM
Bones from the butcher gather bacteria rather quickly and should be discarded no longer than a few hours after poochie has been slobbering on them.

That was one thing I was initially concerned about when we first started doing this 3 years ago. But one thing about a dog's physiology is that their digestive tract is much, much shorter than a human's, so pretty much all harmful bacteria (to humans, anyway), like ecoli, pass through so quickly they do no harm. That's why dogs can work on a bone and go out and bury it, and come back, dig it up, and finish it two months later.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 07:24 PM
That was one thing I was initially concerned about when we first started doing this 3 years ago. But one thing about a dog's physiology is that their digestive tract is much, much shorter than a human's, so pretty much all harmful bacteria (to humans, anyway), like ecoli, pass through so quickly they do no harm. That's why dogs can work on a bone and go out and bury it, and come back, dig it up, and finish it two months later.This is also why dogs get the shits when they have been fed a single unvariable diet for years, then want to switch to a different commercial food. It all depends on what your dog is use to. If you are use to putting stanky bones through your dogs digestive tract, then he will handle it like the dawg that he is.

Oh, and I got started doing this 19 years ago.

Calcountry
04-02-2007, 07:30 PM
We caught a baby bore once and raised it for awhile. When we wacked it the beast was completely drained of blood and still kept following us with his eyes kept trying to get us. Friggen amazing.awesome!:rockon:

Silock
04-02-2007, 07:39 PM
I am making all my own food now. It's really easy I'm not sure why more people don't do it.

Because it's expensive.

Silock
04-02-2007, 07:40 PM
Just make your own food already. I can feed my dog home made grub he absolutely loves that is awesome for him for only $12 a week. What I really need to do is get some chickens from bunnytrdr and it will almost cost me nothing. The live food thing has to mildly entertaining as well. :)

I had to put my dog on a raw diet and it cost more than $25/week.

How are you doing it with 12?

alnorth
04-02-2007, 07:49 PM
From a bit of research, "Natural Balance" apparently makes some pretty good dog and cat food, designed by some scientists who figured out what cats and dogs need to eat to be healthy while still tasting good to them. They apparently do such a good job that a lot of zoos in the country trust them to make wolf/bear/lion/tiger food. Unfortunately, it aint cheap, but its not as expensive as some of the prescription food youd get from a vet.

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/

kcfanintitanhell
04-02-2007, 08:11 PM
This is also why dogs get the shits when they have been fed a single unvariable diet for years, then want to switch to a different commercial food. It all depends on what your dog is use to. If you are use to putting stanky bones through your dogs digestive tract, then he will handle it like the dawg that he is.

Oh, and I got started doing this 19 years ago.



Actually, that's not exactly the case. Different dogs have different digestive systems, some more sensitive than others. Some dogs can switch foods cold turkey with no problems; others require a gradual change. Some handle raw food just fine, others do better on cooked food or even a high quality kibble with added homemade meat and veggies. Our dogs eat a mix made from ground whole chicken and turkey with veggies, brown rice, eggs, garlic, and other ingredients. We also feed our dogs fresh raw meaty bones such as pork necks, turkey necks, and chicken backs, which they consume totally in a matter of minutes, but we also give them beef knuckle bones, aka recreational bones, which they may work on over a period of days, for teeth cleaning. After the first go, these bones have little left on them but some cartilage and connective tissue, which is gone in the next day or two. We don't "put stanky bones through their digestive tract" as you say. The point that needs to be made is that dogs do not have the same susceptibility to food borne bacteria as humans do, which is why it's safe for them to eat fresh raw meat and bones, or even gnaw on bones that have been laying around a day or two. Of course we wouldn't deliberately give them rotten meat or bones; we might as well feed them Puke-a-nuba if we did that. They eat their bones on a mat in the kitchen that gets washed in hot soapy water, and all food prep surfaces are cleaned to prevent any contamination, just like we would when preparing our food. Our dogs don't have a 'dog smell,' their coats are thick and shiny, and their teeth and breath are great. We saw some pretty amazing health changes once we started feeding them this way.

Sorry to resurrect the thread, but I know there are alot of folks concerned about this whole recall thing. My fiance has done alot of research into our dogs' diet, and wanted me to pass this info along to help out those wanting to do home prepared.

Someone asked for some links or info on raw or home prepared feeding:

www.rawmeatybones.com
Tom Lonsdale is one of the 'founders' of raw feeding. I suggest anyone interested read his book, "Raw Meaty Bones" for a real eye opener into just what some of these pet foods are doing to our animals.

www.rawdogranch.com
A great starting place for 'prey model' feeding. Gives recipes, how to's, and pictures.

Other books include:

Monica Segal: K9 Kitchen, Your Dog's Diet. The Truth Behind the Hype.

Kymythy Schultze: Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats. The Ultimate Diet

Richard Pitcairn: Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats

For those of you who are trying to homecook right now, make sure you are balancing the meat with calcium. Muscle meat contains phosphorus, and has to be balanced with calcium or calcium can be leached from the bones. You can use raw meaty bones for this or you can supplement with a high quality, food grade bone meal powder. One of the basics of prey model feeding is keeping the calcium/phosphorus ratio obtained from consuming the whole prey--bones, organs, and all.

We recently purchased a Tasin meat grinder that will allow us to grind up whole chickens as part of our dogs' diet (plus make our own sausage, ground beef, etc...) We now have part of their diet down to less than $1/lb.

Simply Red
04-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Dogs and cats are dying all over the place due to this pet food poisoning.

here's the deal from a local vet here in Vegas:

STOP FEEDING YOUR ANIMAL PET FOOD!

The vet says whats happening is just the tip of the iceberg. There are things going on that we dont know--think about it....this is corporate america..they dont want too much of a scare. This is what my co-workers vet is saying. So, stop feeding whatever your brand is to your animal. This same co-worker had to put his dog down and his food wasn't on the list. Until this thing is over feed your pet human food--

Dogs: Chicken with cooked brown rice and a little bit of vegetables--feed them carrots as treats..peanut butter in the Kongs..Caution with dogs--make sure you know what foods to not feed them--onions, brocccoli, chocolate etc...

Cats: canned chicken/tuna whatever..



Also, you may want to take you pet in for blood work just to check their kidney and liver functions...

This is no bullshit!


Gee, people-food is good for dogs.

Pfft, Dumbass.

I need links proving you and your "co-workers vet's" best guess.

Oh Snap
04-02-2007, 09:41 PM
Yea i heard about this. Is alpo safe? Thats what I feed my dogs.

Theyre also saying that some human food might be infected as well. So be safe out there peeps

Simply Red
04-02-2007, 09:44 PM
Yea i heard about this. Is alpo safe? Thats what I feed my dogs.

Theyre also saying that some human food might be infected as well. So be safe out there peeps

fuggin taliban!

DJ's left nut
04-02-2007, 11:31 PM
Vets aren't qualified nutritionists anyway. Most of their nutrition training comes from Proctor & Gamble or Hill's.

DING!

Any vet that stocks and recommends Science Diet is completely lacking in credibility. Science Diet is, at best, a mediocre dog food. It's a 1/2 step up from grocery store brands.

There are a myriad of resources that can tell you what a dog should/should not be eating. Read a few of them and look at your ingredients list. There are scads of dry foods that don't fill your dog full of crap that provide a much more balanced diet than a BARF diet does.

TrickyNicky
04-03-2007, 12:05 AM
So is Nutro a good brand or not?

Lzen
04-03-2007, 09:14 AM
DING!

Any vet that stocks and recommends Science Diet is completely lacking in credibility. Science Diet is, at best, a mediocre dog food. It's a 1/2 step up from grocery store brands.

Heh, that would be my vet. When I got my 2nd boxer and took her in for the first time, I didn't even accept the Science Diet that they offered. Told them we had been feeding them Maximum Nutrition, a decent food we found at Walmart. Although, it isn't the best, it does cover a lot of the things that the dogs need. Every other food they have at Walmart is pretty much crap. Well, I suppose I did see that Nature's Recipe (or some brand with Nature in the name) the other day. I can get a 20lb bag of the food I have been feeding them for $14.

Back to my vet's qualifications. He is a good vet. Of that, I have no doubt. When I told him what I had been feeding my dogs, he was good with that. Didn't even try to push the Science Diet on me. That being said, I'm fairly certain that Hills pays the vet to give out their food.

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 09:30 AM
So is Nutro a good brand or not?

IIRC, Nutro was one of the "wet" foods on the recall list.

Lzen
04-03-2007, 09:37 AM
I figure with all the questions, now would be a good time to post this again. I got this from a boxer forum. It is specific to boxers, but I think you can learn a lot about dog foods in general from this.

Choosing a good kibble (dry dog food)

Choosing a good kibble for your boxer doesn’t always seem easy. The labels on the packages appear designed to confuse, and beyond identifying whether a food is chicken or lamb-based, people often come away feeling they need a science degree to decipher the rest. And while an ingredient may sound good and conjure up images of plump juicy meat parts, you need to be aware that the definition of what constitutes that ingredient (if it even has a definition) can be quite different. Well, we can’t change the labelling laws here – but we can give you an overview of what we think you should be looking for in a good quality dry dog food.

First and foremost, dogs are carnivore/omnivores – a good proportion of their diet needs to be meat protein sources. Plant proteins tend to be more difficult for dogs to digest, are less palatable and offer less nutrition. Grains are lower than vegetables on the digestibility and nutritional adequacy scale.

So, look at the top five or so ingredients - these form the major portion of the food. The ingredients in dog food are required to be listed in order of weight. So that means that the first ingredient on the list is the one with the greatest volume in the food. We want this to be a named meat source – eg. Chicken, beef or lamb. Never unidentified “meat” and never a "by-product". Note also that since the list runs in order of weight, it is better to see “chicken meal” than “chicken” at the top of the list. “Chicken” includes a high degree of water content, “chicken meal” does not – so with “chicken” it is quite possible that once the water content is removed, it may actually be the fourth or fifth ingredient, not necessarily the first as suggested.

Within the first five ingredients we want to see at least two (preferably more) named meat sources, and as few grains as possible. The first ingredient should certainly be a named meat source. Grains are almost unavoidable in kibble, but they are not a natural source of food for dogs, are often undigestible (what’s the point of a food if your dog can’t digest it?) and are common allergens. Whole ground grains are far better than grain fragments (floor sweepings?) which typically have little or no nutritional value. Brown rice (a whole grain) is better than white rice, which has been stripped of about 75% of its nutritional value. Whole fruits and vegetables are better nutritional sources than grains.

Looking further down the list, we prefer not to see any corn products in the food (corn, corn meal, corn gluten meal, corn syrup, etc) as corn is very difficult to digest, of little nutritional value, and a very common allergen in boxers. Same goes for wheat products/fragments and for beet pulp or molasses (sugar). It should go without saying that we would never buy a food with any form of corn or wheat in the top five ingredients.

We do not want to see any by-products in the food, especially of un-specified source. The AAFCO definition of “chicken by-products” for example is “ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.” Now some of that stuff is OK – nothing wrong with chicken necks. But it is impossible to ascertain the quality and most of the ‘good stuff’ such as hearts, livers, and kidneys don’t go into by-products, they are useful elsewhere, unless the quality is too low. By-products are really those parts that can’t be used anywhere else and a lot of it isn’t OK. Without any ability to determine quality, we prefer to avoid by-products.

Do not forget to look at the preservatives used. Some of these are carcinogenics. Some common cacinogenic preservatives to look for and avoid are: BHT, ethoxyquin, BHA and propylene glycol (a less toxic form of anti-freeze). Citric acid as a preservative can also be problematic as it dramatically increases the risk of bloat if the food is moistened before feeding (according to veterinary research). In our opinion, it is better to purchase a food using tocopherols, ascorbic acid (Vitamin E) or anti-oxidants such as rosemary extract. Better yet, purchase a food that doesn’t contain preservatives at all (there are a few).

We do not want to see any artificial colours, flavours or sweeteners added to the food.

Cunning deceptions and other issues:

“Splitting” This is where the manufacturer “splits” the total amount of an ingredient into component parts to make it appear as though there is a lesser amount of the ingredient. An example would be an ingredient list that read like “chicken meal, ground corn, brown rice, corn gluten meal, lamb meal…”. Looks OK – the top ingredient is chicken meal. But is it really? Well, probably not. The manufacturer has “split” the corn content into component parts of ‘ground corn’ and ‘corn gluten meal’. As a total, the corn content is probably greater than the chicken meal (remember that we don’t know the %, only the order of weight).

Unlisted preservatives: The pet food maker is only required to disclose on the ingredient list those ingredients and preservatives that they themselves added to the food. Some ingredients – usually fats, and some fish products – have preservatives (usually ethoxyquin) added before they arrive at the pet food factory. You will not see this included on the ingredient list. Note that the use of ethoxyquin to preserve food for humans is strenuously debated as it is thought by some to be carcinogenic. The amount of ethoxyquin allowed in human food is a fraction of that allowed in pet food.

Let’s look at some examples:

EXAMPLE 1: Ingredient list for ‘Go! Natural’ adult chicken formula:
Chicken Meal, Chicken Meat, Whole Brown Rice, Whole White Rice, Hulless Barley, Sunflower Oil, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit E), citric acid (vit C) and Rosemary extract), Salmon Meal, Dried Whole Potatoes, Rice Bran, Natural Chicken Flavour, Dried Whole Apples, Dried Whole Carrots, Ground Flax, Bee Pollen, Dried Whole Garlic, Ginger, Dried Alfalfa, Dried Whole Egg, Beta Carotene, Dried Whole Cranberries, Kelp, Yucca Shidegera, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulphate, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vitamin A acetate, Cholecalciferol (vit D), dl alphatocopherol acetate (vit E), ferrous sulphate, **zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, niacin, calcium pantothenate, copper sulphate, **copper proteinate, manganous oxide, riboflavin,
calcium iodate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vit B6), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, menadione sodium bisulphate complex (vit K), Vitamin B12.
** these items are chelated minerals.

Analysis: our opinion
Top 5 ingredients Chicken Meal, Chicken Meat, Whole Brown Rice, Whole White Rice, Hulless Barley
comment Two named meat sources in the top five ingredients (good). The next three are grains (two of which are rice) – brown rice is a whole grain though and rice/barley are much better than corn/wheat.
Other ingredients Sunflower Oil, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols (vit E), citric acid (vit C) and Rosemary extract), Salmon Meal, Dried Whole Potatoes, Rice Bran, Natural Chicken Flavour, Dried Whole Apples, Dried Whole Carrots, Ground Flax, Bee Pollen, Dried Whole Garlic, Ginger, Dried Alfalfa, Dried Whole Egg, Beta Carotene, Dried Whole Cranberries, Kelp
comment Plenty of whole fruits and vegetables, which is good to see, along with whole eggs. Chicken ‘flavour’ is not so good – we prefer not to see artificial flavourings in food (there is no definition/regulation of the word ‘natural’ for pet foods).
Dried whole eggs are good.
The rest Yucca Shidegera, Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulphate, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vitamin A acetate, Cholecalciferol (vit D), dl alphatocopherol acetate (vit E), ferrous sulphate, **zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, niacin, calcium pantothenate, copper sulphate, **copper proteinate, manganous oxide, riboflavin,
calcium iodate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vit B6), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, menadione sodium bisulphate complex (vit K), Vitamin B12.
comment Nothing startling here
Preservatives Mixed tocopherols (vit E), citric acid (vit C) and Rosemary extract
comment Uses naturally-occurring preservatives. Note the use of citric acid (don’t pre-moisten this food)
Conclusion Looks pretty good. We note that the top five ingredients contain 2 forms of ‘chicken’ and 2 of ‘rice’, plus chicken fat at #7. If these ingredients were not ‘split’, the top five would still include 2 named meat protein sources (since the salmon meal would make it into the top 5) and it is thus very likely that the food contains a reasonable amount of chicken versus grains.
We appreciate the range of whole fruits and vegetables in this food, and note that the grains used are ‘whole’ and do not include common nasties such as corn, wheat or beet pulp.
We have some reservation about the use of ‘chicken flavour’ but within an otherwise good ingredient list, don’t feel it is worth getting too excited about this one.
We do note the use of citric acid as a preservative, which is fine but means that this food should not be pre-moistened before feeding.



EXAMPLE 2: Ingredient list for ‘Purina Pro Plan’ adult lamb and rice formula:
Lamb, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, chicken meal, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), oat meal, pearled barley, fish meal, dried beet pulp, natural flavors, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), zinc sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), ferrous sulfate, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. H-4470

Analysis: our opinion
Top 5 ingredients Lamb, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, chicken meal
comment Two named meat sources in the top five ingredients, but we note that the first is lamb (inclusive of its water content) and the chicken is the fifth ingredient. We are not confident that the total meat content of this food is high compared to the grains. We prefer not to see brewers rice (by product of alcohol industry), corn gluten meal or wheat in a dog food.
Other ingredients Beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), oat meal, pearled barley, fish meal, dried beet pulp
comment Beef tallow is a low quality animal fat which we prefer not to see in pet food.
Oat meal and barley are fine (barley is a whole grain) but we are not so happy to see beet pulp included. Fish meal is another meat protein source, but is likely to be preserved with ethoxyquin.
Food contain no whole fruits or vegetables.
The rest Natural flavors, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), zinc sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of Vitamin C), ferrous sulfate, riboflavin supplement, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite. H-4470
comment We prefer not to see artificial flavours and colours added to dog food (“natural flavours”) or the use of salt.
Preservatives Mixed tocopherols
comment Uses naturally-occurring preservatives
Conclusion Not a food we would choose. We note that the top five ingredients do contain 2 named meat protein sources, but since the first ingredient is ‘lamb’ inclusive of its water content and the second meat ingredient doesn’t occur until 5th on the ingredient list, we are not convinced that this food contains a reasonable proportion of meat protein versus grains.
There are no whole fruits and vegetables in this food, and note that the grains used are ones we prefer to avoid (corn gluten meal, brewers rice and wheat) and which are common allergens. We would not buy a dog food with corn or wheat in the top five ingredients, and prefer not to see these grains at all.
We do not like to see artificial flavours or colours added to dog food, nor the use of salt.
Naturally occurring preservatives are used in this food.


For more advice, or just to discuss food ingredients, visit our Nutrition forums and Puppy Feeding forum.

Large breed and puppy foods

Boxers are not large breed dogs. It is true that a few (but by no means all) food manufacturers have decided that any breed of dog that is likely to weigh over 50lb as an adult is a “large” breed and therefore needs to be fed a food formulated for large breeds. We disagree – with the exception of a few abnormally large individuals, boxers are, and always have been, a medium sized breed. They should not be fed large breed food.

It is probably more helpful though, if we examine the rationale for creating a large breed formulation in the first place. Over-nutrition of puppies – most especially excess amounts of protein and calcium – is implicated in the development of a number of growth and bone development disorders in dogs. It also greatly exacerbates the development of hip dysplasia, which occurs most frequently in large and giant breeds (it occurs commonly in the boxer too).

So for these dogs, pet food manufacturers have come up with reduced protein and calcium formulas, often with glucosamine and chondratin supplements added “to ease painful joints”. Well, glucosamine and chondratin may be useful supplements in easing the pain of arthritic and otherwise damaged joints (the jury is still out on that one) but the small amounts added to pet food are unlikely to be effective. More importantly, there is no evidence to suggest that they may be helpful in preventing the development of joint conditions in the first place. We are not believers in bombarding a dog’s system with supplements and additives in the hope of preventing a condition that the dog doesn’t actually have.

Has anyone spotted the biggest flaw yet? Puppy growth problems are at least partially attributable to over-nutrition, and excess amounts of protein and calcium commonly found in puppy formulas. In some cases, puppy foods can have protein levels up to around 44% (versus around 22-25% for adults). So why would you feed a puppy formula in the first place? There is no reason to suspect puppies need different food from adults – and post-weaning, they certainly wouldn’t have got different food in a natural environment. Humans and other mammals don’t feed their children different food either…

Our advice would be to avoid the large breed and puppy formulations completely, and to choose instead a good quality adult or all-life-stages food instead. If you do choose to feed a puppy food, please ensure that the protein and calcium levels are not excessive and switch to an adult food by around 4-6 months.

Allergic dogs

Food allergies are common in boxers, and we recommend that you avoid foods that contain ingredients such as corn (any form), wheat, brewers yeast, any form of by-products and artificial flavours and colourings (even if it’s called “natural” flavour – there is no regulation of the word natural in pet food). These grains are the most common allergens and in any case, are not a good nutritional basis for dogs as they are not well designed to digest grains.

Sometimes dogs can be allergic to particular meat proteins though. Turkey and beef are common culprits, though dogs can also be allergic to chicken, lamb, fish – in fact just about anything. Some manufacturers do produce foods made with fewer and less common meat protein sources and without grains that can be very useful for allergic dogs. Examples include duck and potato, venison, bison, or fish and potato formulas.

If you suspect your dog has allergies, then choosing a food with a low number of grains and only one or two different meat protein sources is a good start (eg. a food with chicken and lamb, rather than chicken, turkey, lamb and fish). Common signs of food allergies are red itchy skin, ears or feet, persistent ear infections, diarrhoea and throwing up, and raised bumps on the skin.

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 09:49 AM
Anybody know anything about these guys?

http://www.holisticpetcompany.com/

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 09:50 AM
Or this?

http://www.karmaorganic.com/

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 09:52 AM
One more...

http://www.naturapet.com/

Frazod
04-03-2007, 09:56 AM
We went out and got some higher end food for the cats last night. I'm not one to buy into media THE SKY IS FALLING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE hype, but learning about all the added crap in the food really pissed me off.

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 10:01 AM
We went out and got some higher end food for the cats last night. I'm not one to buy into media THE SKY IS FALLING WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE hype, but learning about all the added crap in the food really pissed me off.

That's where I'm at. This whole recall scare brought things to a head for me.

I'm still VERY confident that the food I'm feeding my dogs is 100% safe.

But I've begun to question if the food I'm feeding my dogs is 100% HEALTHY. It's time for a change.

CosmicPal
04-03-2007, 10:23 AM
That's where I'm at. This whole recall scare brought things to a head for me.

I'm still VERY confident that the food I'm feeding my dogs is 100% safe.

But I've begun to question if the food I'm feeding my dogs is 100% HEALTHY. It's time for a change.

Then I would recommend you go with Innova or California Naturals. I've been feeding my dog a combination of the Innova with real foods added, such as: chicken, brown rice, peas, tofu, cottage cheese, eggs, etc.

It's costly stuff, but at least my dog is never sick and I don't have a huge vet bill like a lot of other peeps I know. So, it all evens out.

http://www.naturapet.com/

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 10:42 AM
Then I would recommend you go with Innova or California Naturals. I've been feeding my dog a combination of the Innova with real foods added, such as: chicken, brown rice, peas, tofu, cottage cheese, eggs, etc.

It's costly stuff, but at least my dog is never sick and I don't have a huge vet bill like a lot of other peeps I know. So, it all evens out.

http://www.naturapet.com/

Perfect, that's the website my wife found that I posted earlier today.

ceebz
04-03-2007, 01:19 PM
Then I would recommend you go with Innova or California Naturals. I've been feeding my dog a combination of the Innova with real foods added, such as: chicken, brown rice, peas, tofu, cottage cheese, eggs, etc.

It's costly stuff, but at least my dog is never sick and I don't have a huge vet bill like a lot of other peeps I know. So, it all evens out.

http://www.naturapet.com/

Yeah, the Innova is a good food as well. I still prefer the TO line of foods because you get the different meat sources.

NewChief
04-03-2007, 01:23 PM
IIRC, Nutro was one of the "wet" foods on the recall list.

It was. Their dry kibble is made by a different company than Menu Foods, though. Nutro is a mid-range food from what I understand. I think it used to be a higher quality, but it's done downhill somewhat. It's still what I feed, but I'm considering changing.

Count Alex's Losses
04-03-2007, 01:25 PM
My dog eats this brand and has had no problems. They're a local company:

http://www.muenstermilling.com/store/category.asp?id=1

http://www.muenstermilling.com/store/product.asp?id=5

NewChief
04-03-2007, 01:25 PM
To the budget concious, I reccomend Diamond Naturals, no corn no byproduct w/omega 6/3 acids. Reasonable price and decent food.


I'd always hard good things about Diamond in the past as well. Didn't they have a similar recall recently, though? Like a year or two ago?

BIG_DADDY
04-03-2007, 01:38 PM
I had to put my dog on a raw diet and it cost more than $25/week.

How are you doing it with 12?

Actually it's probably $14 with the beef bones. 2 big chickens and brown rice and some spare veggies is $12. Beef bone I got last night was a buck twenty. When I supplement it will go up though. I need to get some from bunnytrdr. Probably be $15 then.

Redrum_69
04-03-2007, 01:40 PM
Actually it's probably $14 with the beef bones. 2 big chickens and brown rice and some spare veggies is $12. Beef bone I got last night was a buck twenty. When I supplement it will go up though. I need to get some from bunnytrdr. Probably be $15 then.



Just do what everyone else does around here...let their pit bulls run free and if the neighbors cat goes missing, blame it on the pet food

tomahawk kid
04-03-2007, 01:54 PM
How often do you guys mix in "human" food? Every day?

Does the cottage cheese have any digestive side effects?

My schnauzer will periodically throw up bile if she eats infrequently. It can lead to a plethora of issues with their pancreas and eventually lead to diabetes.

In order to combat this, I've been mixing in some low sodium green beans with her kibble. She absolutely loves it. We currently give her Nutro Lamb and Rice, but I'm thinking about switching her to California Natural after reading some of the stuff in this thread,

KC Kings
04-03-2007, 02:00 PM
I feed my rots nothing but human flesh. I noticed that after eating Asians they seem to get a bit of a tummy ache. Could this be because Asians have high wheat gluton content?

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 02:07 PM
I just walked to the pet store here by my office and bought one of the brands featured on that site, California Naturals lamb and rice.

The lady there told me to mix it with green beans for best results...

kcfanintitanhell
04-03-2007, 03:00 PM
California Natural makes great foods, especially for allergy prone dogs. The list of ingredients is simple, and their formulas each have one protein source and one carb source. Simple is important when you have a dog with food allergies and you are trying to find out what works for him/her.

Innova makes excellent foods. Their "EVO" line is grain free and very high in protein. It isn't recommended for a growing large breed puppy because of the high calcium content, but it's an awesome line of foods for adult dogs. Everything they make is of excellent quality.

Nature's Variety makes some great foods too. They also make a grain free option called "Raw Instinct." In addition, they make some premade raw meat blends.

Honest Kitchen makes a kibble-like, very high quality dehydrated raw food.

Generally, with the higher quality foods, you don't have to feed as much because they are more nutrient and calorie dense (you can often feed less than the recommended amounts on the bag), so you will actually come out better in the long run cost-wise. Not to mention the improved health of your pet.

Here's kind of a cool long term price comparison. The "high quality brand" used in the example is Canidae, also another excellent food.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=costfactors

If you are interested in trying the pre made raw stuff, these companies sell online and at some specialty pet food stores:

Oma's Pride
A Place for Paws (We order green tripe from them--stinks to high heaven but it's caviar to the dogs)
Bravo

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 03:18 PM
California Natural makes great foods, especially for allergy prone dogs. The list of ingredients is simple, and their formulas each have one protein source and one carb source. Simple is important when you have a dog with food allergies and you are trying to find out what works for him/her.

Innova makes excellent foods. Their "EVO" line is grain free and very high in protein. It isn't recommended for a growing large breed puppy because of the high calcium content, but it's an awesome line of foods for adult dogs. Everything they make is of excellent quality.

Nature's Variety makes some great foods too. They also make a grain free option called "Raw Instinct." In addition, they make some premade raw meat blends.

Honest Kitchen makes a kibble-like, very high quality dehydrated raw food.

Generally, with the higher quality foods, you don't have to feed as much because they are more nutrient and calorie dense (you can often feed less than the recommended amounts on the bag), so you will actually come out better in the long run cost-wise. Not to mention the improved health of your pet.

Here's kind of a cool long term price comparison. The "high quality brand" used in the example is Canidae, also another excellent food.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=costfactors

If you are interested in trying the pre made raw stuff, these companies sell online and at some specialty pet food stores:

Oma's Pride
A Place for Paws (We order green tripe from them--stinks to high heaven but it's caviar to the dogs)
Bravo

That's good info considering that I mentioned earlier how finicky my Yorkie's digestive system is.

By the way, the California Naturals is actually CHEAPER than the Royal Canin I had been feeding her...

Count Alex's Losses
04-03-2007, 03:22 PM
I'm going to try feeding my dog Yorkies...

Silock
04-03-2007, 03:34 PM
Actually it's probably $14 with the beef bones. 2 big chickens and brown rice and some spare veggies is $12. Beef bone I got last night was a buck twenty. When I supplement it will go up though. I need to get some from bunnytrdr. Probably be $15 then.

How big is your dog?

BIG_DADDY
04-03-2007, 03:41 PM
How big is your dog?

58 pounds.

Silock
04-03-2007, 03:43 PM
Hrm...

Mine is 39 pounds, but will eat 2 large chicken breasts per day along with 2 cups of rice and a serving of veggies.

Am I overfeeding her? She's incredibly active and runs 4-6 miles per day with me.

BIG_DADDY
04-03-2007, 03:49 PM
Hrm...

Mine is 39 pounds, but will eat 2 large chicken breasts per day along with 2 cups of rice and a serving of veggies.

Am I overfeeding her? She's incredibly active and runs 4-6 miles per day with me.

Really comes down to how lean they are. I need to get mine out a little more frequently. He gets some treats too so I guess I would need to figure that in. The chickens are Rockies too so they are really big birds.

Silock
04-03-2007, 03:51 PM
Yeah, she's definitely not even close to fat.

Where do you buy those large chickens?

BIG_DADDY
04-03-2007, 03:57 PM
Yeah, she's definitely not even close to fat.

Where do you buy those large chickens?

Then I'm sure you're fine. I live in California so these Rocky chickens are everywhere. I just go to whoever has them on sale that week. You should see the wings on these bad boys.

http://www.petalumapoultry.com/faq.php

Silock
04-03-2007, 03:58 PM
Damn!

Well, thanks for all the info :)

BIG_DADDY
04-03-2007, 04:06 PM
Damn!

Well, thanks for all the info :)

Any time. :thumb: sounds like you got a lucky dog.

Delano
04-03-2007, 04:28 PM
Innova makes excellent foods. Their "EVO" line is grain free and very high in protein. It isn't recommended for a growing large breed puppy because of the high calcium content, but it's an awesome line of foods for adult dogs. Everything they make is of excellent quality.

Quick question for ya..

I always assumed that calcium was good in growing animals because of all the bone growth going on. At least that was the case when raising other pets, specifically reptiles.

Why is this different in dogs?

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 04:32 PM
Quick question for ya..

I always assumed that calcium was good in growing animals because of all the bone growth going on. At least that was the case when raising other pets, specifically reptiles.

Why is this different in dogs?

I don't know specifically about dogs, but too much calcium for humans can lead to kidney stones.

kcfanintitanhell
04-03-2007, 05:50 PM
Calcium *is* good, but too much (or a calcium/phosphorus/other mineral ratio meant for a small puppy) in a large breed puppy (think Rotties, mastiffs, danes, etc...) can cause the bones to grow too rapidly and lead to orthopedic problems down the road. You actually want to keep their growth slow to protect against hip dysplasia and other bone/joint problems down the road, so it's important for them not to get TOO much calcium in relation to other minerals. From what I've read, a large breed puppy should be fed an all life stages or adult formula dog food rather than a "puppy" food because of this. Calcium levels should be at 1.5% or less if I'm not mistaken-I need to check some references on that. EVO is the exception; they even state on the bag that the food should not be fed to a large breed puppy because of the high mineral content and the fact that it is more calorie dense (that's the other thing to avoid in a large breed puppy--rapid weight gain--also can lead to bone and joint problems.) Once they are fully grown it's fine. It's just very easy to overfeed a puppy, especially a large breed puppy, so you want to feed a food that will control growth.

tommykat
04-03-2007, 06:57 PM
Without reading all of this here is my input:

For dogs, I used to cook up hamburger add some bread and rice. Actually the rice is enough. The cats? Chicken, boil thighs or drumbsticks...cheap. Thinking I best start cooking for the kids again until this mess is cleared up.

Also, for a treat for dogs? They love canned peas, greenbeans, mixed veggies cold right out of the can. That is "our" ice cream here everynight.

tommykat
04-03-2007, 06:59 PM
Without reading all of this here is my input:

For dogs, I used to cook up hamburger add some bread and rice. Actually the rice is enough. The cats? Chicken, boil thighs or drumbsticks...cheap. Thinking I best start cooking for the kids again until this mess is cleared up.

Also, for a treat for dogs? They love canned peas, greenbeans, mixed veggies cold right out of the can. That is "our" ice cream here everynight.

Also fat free yougart and fat free cottage chesse is a yummy thing for the dogs also....:D

htismaqe
04-03-2007, 08:21 PM
Also fat free yougart and fat free cottage chesse is a yummy thing for the dogs also....:D

Honestly, regular yogurt or cottage cheese WITH fat is probably better for them.

"Fat free" = processed

processed = less than ideal nutrition

Calcountry
04-05-2007, 05:25 PM
Anybody know anything about these guys?

http://www.holisticpetcompany.com/

Wtf would I know?

Ask the expert who schooled me on a dogs digestive tract. He must be a breeder, they think they are gods gift to dogs, you can't tell them anything because they already know it all.

They all, every single one of them, have their own special recipe or combination of foods and such, that gives their precious dogs an edge. What a crock of shit.

Calcountry
04-05-2007, 05:30 PM
I'd always hard good things about Diamond in the past as well. Didn't they have a similar recall recently, though? Like a year or two ago?Their corn based food brands out of Gaston S.C. were contaminated.

I don't reccomend Corn Based foods, but I do sell them in order to keep Wal Mart business on this side of town.

Calcountry
04-05-2007, 05:35 PM
Calcium *is* good, but too much (or a calcium/phosphorus/other mineral ratio meant for a small puppy) in a large breed puppy (think Rotties, mastiffs, danes, etc...) can cause the bones to grow too rapidly and lead to orthopedic problems down the road. You actually want to keep their growth slow to protect against hip dysplasia and other bone/joint problems down the road, so it's important for them not to get TOO much calcium in relation to other minerals. From what I've read, a large breed puppy should be fed an all life stages or adult formula dog food rather than a "puppy" food because of this. Calcium levels should be at 1.5% or less if I'm not mistaken-I need to check some references on that. EVO is the exception; they even state on the bag that the food should not be fed to a large breed puppy because of the high mineral content and the fact that it is more calorie dense (that's the other thing to avoid in a large breed puppy--rapid weight gain--also can lead to bone and joint problems.) Once they are fully grown it's fine. It's just very easy to overfeed a puppy, especially a large breed puppy, so you want to feed a food that will control growth.He speaks the truth, one of the biggest misnomers in pet nutrition is that calcium supplementation is good for puppies.

Calcountry
04-05-2007, 06:04 PM
Here is an update ...


UPDATE: US Pet Foods, Treats Recall Expanded -FDA

Apr 5, 2007 17:34:32 (ET)


(Updates with stores that sold recalled products; also additional, unrelated dog treat alert)
WASHINGTON (AP)--The recall of pet foods and treats contaminated with an industrial chemical expanded Thursday to include dog biscuits made by an Alabama company and sold by Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) under the Ol'Roy brand.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration said the manufacturer, Sunshine Mills Inc., is recalling dog biscuits made with imported Chinese wheat gluten. Testing has revealed the wheat gluten, a protein source, was contaminated with melamine, used to make plastics and other industrial products.
Also Thursday, Menu Foods Income Fund (MEW.UN.T), a major manufacturer of brand- and private-label wet pet foods, expanded its original recall to include a broader range of dates and varieties. Menu Foods was the first of at least six companies to recall the now more than 100 brands of pet foods and treats made with the contaminated ingredient.
The recall now covers "cuts and gravy"-style products made between Nov. 8 and March 6, Menu Foods said. Previously, it applied only to products made beginning Dec. 3. In addition, Menu Foods said it was expanding the recall to include more varieties, but no new brands.
The FDA knows of no other pet product companies planning recalls, agency officials told reporters.
"Other than that, I think, you know, the public should feel secure in purchasing pet foods that are not subject to the recall," Stephen Sundlof, director of the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine, told reporters.
Sunshine, of Red Bay, Ala., sells pet foods and treats under its own brands as well as private labels sold by Wal-Mart Stores Inc.; Kmart, a division of Sears Holdings Corp. (SHLD); Longs Drug Stores Corp. (LDG) and Stater Bros. Markets. The recall included specific brands like Wal-Mart's Ol'Roy, as well as a portion of Sunshine's own Nurture, Lassie and Pet Life dog biscuit brands.
Previously, Menu Foods had recalled some wet-style dog foods it made for sale under the Stater Bros. and Ol'Roy brands as well.
Sunshine said there have been no reports of dog illnesses or deaths in connection with the recalled dog biscuits, which contain 1% or less wheat gluten by weight.
The FDA continues to focus on melamine as the suspected contaminant of the pet products, though Sundlof said it could be a marker for the presence of another, not yet known substance. Melamine previously was not believed to be toxic.
The recall is one of the largest pet food recalls in history, Sundlof said. The FDA has received more than 12,000 complaints but has confirmed only about 15 pet deaths.
Anecdotal reports suggest the tally is in the hundreds or low thousands.
Sunshine Mills said it would post a complete list of the recalled dog biscuits on its Web site, http://www.sunshinemills.com.
The FDA last week blocked wheat gluten imports from the Xuzhou Anying Biologic Technology Development Co. in the eastern city of Xuzhou, saying they contained melamine. A Las Vegas importer, ChemNutra Inc., this week recalled all wheat gluten it had bought from the supplier and in turn distributed to pet food manufacturers.
Xuzhou Anying has said it is investigating the claims.
Also Thursday, the FDA warned consumers not to give American Bullie A.B. Bull Pizzle Puppy Chews and Dog Chews to their pets. The FDA said salmonella could contaminate the dog treats, made and distributed by T.W. Enterprises of Ferndale, Wash.
(END) Dow Jones Newswires

C-Mac
04-05-2007, 06:19 PM
"The FDA has received more than 12,000 complaints but has confirmed only about 15 pet deaths."

:hmmm:

memyselfI
04-20-2007, 12:05 PM
That's where I'm at. This whole recall scare brought things to a head for me.

I'm still VERY confident that the food I'm feeding my dogs is 100% safe.

But I've begun to question if the food I'm feeding my dogs is 100% HEALTHY. It's time for a change.

When this first broke I read on a Veterinary blog and reported here that Vets speculated this contamination problem was going to be widespread and a huge deal after all is said and done. The Petfinders website had counted over 3k dogs and cats dead at the time. That was almost a month ago.

I wouldn't be confident if I were you. If you read MSNBC today you will see that the tainted mixture that wasn't good enough for pets was sent to Hog Food producers who used it. It's showing up in the urine streams of hogs...Human consumption, perhaps?

And, apparently a 3rd product is also testing as contaminated and has killed 30 dogs in South Africa.

Many premium brands are now on recall lists. It's a tough time to be a pet owner and consumer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18210224/


So far, melamine’s been found in both wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate imported from China. Media reports from South Africa, where 30 dogs died, suggest a third pet food ingredient, corn gluten, used in that country also was contaminated with melamine. That tainted ingredient has not been found in the United States, the FDA said.


“Later Thursday, California officials said they believe the melamine at the quarantined hog farm came from rice protein concentrate imported from China by Diamond Pet Food’s Lathrop facility, which produces products under the Natural Balance brand and sold salvage pet food to the farm for pig feed.

Although all animals appear healthy, we are taking this action out of an abundance of caution,” State Veterinarian Richard Breitmeyer said in a statement. “It is unknown if the chemical will be detected in meat.”

Officials were investigating American Hog Farm’s sales records to determine who may be affected by the quarantine, said Steve Lyle, a spokesman for the California Department of Food and Agriculture. The 1,500-animal farm operates as a “custom slaughterhouse,” which means it generally does not supply meat to commercial outlets.

“Mostly it is not so-called mainstream pork. This is an operation that sells to folks who come in and want a whole pig,” said Lyle said.

Officials urged those who purchased pigs from American Hog Farm since April 3 to not consume the product until further notice.

Dr. Mark Horton, state public health officer, said so far “evidence suggests a minimal health risk to persons who may have consumed pork” from the farm.

A man who answered the phone for American Hog Farm late Thursday declined to comment and referred calls to state officials. Phone calls to Diamond Pet Food’s Lathrop facility and Meta, Mo., headquarters were not immediately returned.

memyselfI
04-20-2007, 12:12 PM
The FDA has only officially counted the deaths of pets who were killed IN THE TESTING OF TAINTED PRODUCT. Product tested during the initial wave of sick and dead pets.

There is no official data base of pet death or illness related to the contaminated foods. I don't think the FDA wants to bother with it lest they end up having some splainin to do.

MOF, the AVMA will have some plaining to do as well. They were VERY LATE in comprehending the magnitude of the problem. To my knowledge, to date they still have not done a nationwide survey of Vets to see what types of numbers have been affected.

We've seen so many kidney issues in cats lately it's been crazy. Some of them had prior issues and you have to wonder if something in their foods isn't exacerbating the problem. Cats we used to be able to help in a course or two of antibiotics are taking longer to get healthy.

I think the AVMA and many Vets around the country have been loathe to actually get together and find out how many pets are involved because the sell some of the foods and fear liability from those sales. Truly, it's been the animal owners themselves and the media who've taken the lead on this issue and tried to put together some types of numbers to accurately assess the situation.

What is scary is that a couple of weeks ago Banfield said the'd seen 39k pets in their clinic that they determined might have suffered some kind of issues related to contamination and kidney illness. Many Vets poo pooed those numbers. But they could have been closer to the truth than even the Vets want to know.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/04/pet_food_recall19.html

BIG_DADDY
04-20-2007, 12:12 PM
When this first broke I read on a Veterinary blog and reported here that Vets speculated this contamination problem was going to be widespread and a huge deal after all is said and done. The Petfinders website had counted over 3k dogs and cats dead at the time. That was almost a month ago.

I wouldn't be confident if I were you. If you read MSNBC today you will see that the corn gluten mixture that wasn't good enough for pets was sent to Hog Food producers who used it. It's showing up in the urine streams of hogs...Human consumption, perhaps?

And, apparently a 3rd product is also testing as contaminated and has killed 30 dogs in South Africa.

Many premium brands are now on recall lists. It's a tough time to be a pet owner.

You're so full of shit. The AVMA came out awhile back and said if your dog food was not on the list you should feel safe feeding it to them. i posted it in a another thread when it came out. I went back and fed mine the Canidae again and he immediatly threw up and had the runs again. That is the last time I will ever feed my dog dog food. No more vets either. Only in an emergency situation would I ever consider seeing one again.

Delano
04-20-2007, 12:19 PM
You're so full of shit. The AVMA came out awhile back and said if your dog food was not on the list you should feel safe feeding it to them. i posted it in a another thread when it came out. I went back and fed mine the Canidae again and he immediatly threw up and had the runs again. That is the last time I will ever feed my dog dog food. No more vets either. Only in an emergency situation would I ever consider seeing one again.

Christ. I am hoping I don't have those problems with the Canidae. You feed the All Life Stages variety? Do you switch back and forth from the whole food (chicken, veggies, rice) to the kibble?

Iowanian
04-20-2007, 12:20 PM
Feed fido some Walmart "Ole Roy".


Bob Barker may have just finally figured out a way to control the pet population after all.

BIG_DADDY
04-20-2007, 01:09 PM
Christ. I am hoping I don't have those problems with the Canidae. You feed the All Life Stages variety? Do you switch back and forth from the whole food (chicken, veggies, rice) to the kibble?

I was feeding dry Chicken and rice all stages. My dog has an iron gut too. I have been using their products for awhile and loved them. This is the first time I have had a problem. It's not that hard to just make his food so I'm going to do that.

Lzen
04-20-2007, 01:14 PM
In all 3 cases, the tainted products were glutens from China (wheat gluten - Menu Foods, corn gluten - Royal Canin, and rice gluten - Natural Balance). It is starting to appear as though the Chinese company selling this stuff was tainting it purposely. The FDA is getting ready to go there and try to determine if that is the case. No matter how it turns out, it would seem obvious that we can't trust pet food products from this Chinese company. Kind of scary when you start thinking about all the human food products that come from China.

Delano
04-20-2007, 01:20 PM
In all 3 cases, the tainted products were glutens from China (wheat gluten - Menu Foods, corn gluten - Royal Canin, and rice gluten - Natural Balance). It is starting to appear as though the Chinese company selling this stuff was tainting it purposely. The FDA is getting ready to go there and try to determine if that is the case. No matter how it turns out, it would seem obvious that we can't trust pet food products from this Chinese company. Kind of scary when you start thinking about all the human food products that come from China.

It would be great to see a list of all the foods that use product from the Chinese supplier. I think that would take some of the guess work and speculation out of the equation and give some peace of mind to pet owners.

Lzen
04-20-2007, 01:22 PM
It would be great to see a list of all the foods that use product from the Chinese supplier. I think that would take some of the guess work and speculation out of the equation and give some peace of mind to pet owners.

I agree. Unfortunately, the pet food makers are only required to list what ingredients they put into their foods. Not where they purchased said ingredients.

Iowanian
04-20-2007, 01:25 PM
It sounds like Dogfood makers should starting buying their Corn and Wheat products from THE UNITED STATES instead of China.

Delano
04-20-2007, 01:30 PM
It sounds like Dogfood makers should starting buying their Corn and Wheat products from THE UNITED STATES instead of China.

Corn isn't really a great ingredient in dog food. It isn't digestable. I can see that at my parents farm when the dog eats undigested corn out of cattle shit and ends up crapping the corn out because it STILL isn't digested. I think corn should be allocated to better uses like fuel, cattle feed etc.

I think a lot of the US grown corn is going into ethanol production. Wheat on the other hand, is used in some foods and I wish it was US grown wheat!

I am curious if the chicken and other meat meals are US raised. I would tend to believe that the meat sources are from our country.

Lzen
04-20-2007, 01:40 PM
Corn may not be a great ingredient for dog food but that doesn't stop many dog food makers from using it.

htismaqe
04-20-2007, 01:41 PM
Corn isn't really a great ingredient in dog food. It isn't digestable. I can see that at my parents farm when the dog eats undigested corn out of cattle shit and ends up crapping the corn out because it STILL isn't digested. I think corn should be allocated to better uses like fuel, cattle feed etc.

I think a lot of the US grown corn is going into ethanol production. Wheat on the other hand, is used in some foods and I wish it was US grown wheat!

I am curious if the chicken and other meat meals are US raised. I would tend to believe that the meat sources are from our country.

Umm. run over to Wal-Mart or Petco and take a look at the labels.

They ALL contain corn or corn byproducts.

Cellulose is highly indigestible, you're right. Corn hulls happen to contain alot of it. Which makes it extremely useful for pet food if you're looking for a FILLER.

BIG_DADDY
04-20-2007, 01:46 PM
My dog gets enough corn from his weekly dog taco's I make him.

booger
02-20-2008, 06:53 PM
anyone know of or tried this stuff?

http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/index.php

KcMizzou
02-20-2008, 07:01 PM
anyone know of or tried this stuff?

http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/index.phpYeah, It's pretty bland. Add salt.

booger
02-20-2008, 07:04 PM
ROFLYeah, It's pretty bland. Add salt.

ROFL

My farts sure aren't bland!! I mean the dog.