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View Full Version : KU sure is fast losing its elite status


Logical
04-02-2007, 11:46 PM
How many other teams now have as many or more National Championships and better still back to back ones.ROFL

SNR
04-03-2007, 12:10 AM
You sound like a Donk fan :grr:

Tactical Funky
04-03-2007, 12:16 AM
Uh...I have to disagree with you there, especially with KU's all-time wins, total NC appearances and wins (both Helms and NCAA), conference championships and titles, coaching pedigree/tree, etc.

We had too many blown chances at a title under the Deputy, but I think Self can get us over the hump soon - if we can develop a consistent low-post threat, that is.

Bacon Cheeseburger
04-03-2007, 12:31 AM
I sure would like to be able to laugh at them, but unfortunately my team sux teh donkee bawls.

SPchief
04-03-2007, 12:33 AM
Uh...I have to disagree with you there, especially with KU's all-time wins, total NC appearances and wins (both Helms and NCAA), conference championships and titles, coaching pedigree/tree, etc.

We had too many blown chances at a title under the Deputy, but I think Self can get us over the hump soon - if we can develop a consistent low-post threat, that is.



And still, Florida still has the same amout of championships as the "elite" Jayhawks.

Pants
04-03-2007, 12:36 AM
And still, Florida still has the same amout of championships as the "elite" Jayhawks.

You're right. KU is an average BB program with little to no tradition.

SPchief
04-03-2007, 12:38 AM
You're right. KU is an average BB program with little to no tradition.



They absolutly have tradition. It may be a bad tradition, but choking is still a tradition.

Pants
04-03-2007, 12:43 AM
They absolutly have tradition. It may be a bad tradition, but choking is still a tradition.

I'd rather choke in the FF every time than not get to the tourney. Seriously, I sometimes get pissed off at myself for being stuck as a Chiefs fan (can't change the love for a team) and pretty much hate the world at those times, but I'm always proud and happy to be a Jayhawk fan.

If you don't see KU as one of the elite programs in the nation, more power to you. But then again, I would say the same thing about your overall stupidity.

Direckshun
04-03-2007, 12:44 AM
God damn this is the stupidest ****ing conversation.

Logical
04-03-2007, 12:47 AM
I'd rather choke in the FF every time than not get to the tourney. Seriously, I sometimes get pissed off at myself for being stuck as a Chiefs fan (can't change the love for a team) and pretty much hate the world at those times, but I'm always proud and happy to be a Jayhawk fan.

If you don't see KU as one of the elite programs in the nation, more power to you. But then again, I would say the same thing about your overall stupidity.I am just saying look how few National Championships KU has and how many other teams have as many or more. Is KU a quality program, no doubt but is it truly elite, it is becoming doubtful.

SPchief
04-03-2007, 12:48 AM
I'd rather choke in the FF every time than not get to the tourney. Seriously, I sometimes get pissed off at myself for being stuck as a Chiefs fan (can't change the love for a team) and pretty much hate the world at those times, but I'm always proud and happy to be a Jayhawk fan.

If you don't see KU as one of the elite programs in the nation, more power to you. But then again, I would say the same thing about your overall stupidity.


Elite programs win championships. It doesn't matter if you win x amount of gimmie games a year.

Pants
04-03-2007, 12:57 AM
I am just saying look how few National Championships KU has and how many other teams have as many or more. Is KU a quality program, no doubt but is it truly elite, it is becoming doubtful.

How is it becoming doubtful? A perennial winner with more BB history than any other school is an elite program, IMO. Winning the NC is the most important thing, I agree, but I don't think it defines an elite program as much as you make it out to do.

Florida won 2 NCs in a row, do you consider it an overall elite program? Is it overall more elite than UK, Duke, NC, UCLA? They're the best in the nation right now, no doubt about it, but is it an elite program?

CoMoChief
04-03-2007, 01:16 AM
Here's the way I look at it.

If there's no KU, there's no Adolph Rupp.

If there's no Adolpf Rupp, there's no Historic powerhouse Kentucky.

If there's no Kentucky powerhouse, there's no Rick Patino.

If theres no Rick Patino, there's no Billy Donovan.

If there's no Billy Donovan, there's no Florida back to back championships.



Dont worry people, KU has their hands dipped into just about everything. ;)

SPchief
04-03-2007, 01:20 AM
Here's the way I look at it.

If there's no KU, there's no Adolph Rupp.

If there's no Adolpf Rupp, there's no Historic powerhouse Kentucky.

If there's no Kentucky powerhouse, there's no Rick Patino.

If theres no Rick Patino, there's no Billy Donovan.

If there's no Billy Donovan, there's no Florida back to back championships.



Dont worry people, KU has their hands dipped into just about everything. ;)


KU owns all

Pants
04-03-2007, 01:22 AM
KU owns all

When it comes to BB, that's pretty much true.

SPchief
04-03-2007, 01:24 AM
When it comes to BB, that's pretty much true.


They back it up with all of those championships.

Guru
04-03-2007, 01:29 AM
They back it up with all of those championships.
So who do you root for SP?

SPchief
04-03-2007, 01:31 AM
So who do you root for SP?


SMS, err Missouri State.

Tactical Funky
04-03-2007, 01:32 AM
And still, Florida still has the same amout of championships as the "elite" Jayhawks.
Your argument is reductionism, plain and simple; Florida may have two NC's, but barring a long-term consistency in conference and the tournament like KU, they may eventually fall out of favor as a great basketball school while KU will always remain as such. :p

luv
04-03-2007, 01:33 AM
SMS, err Missouri State.
It will always be SMS to me.

Guru
04-03-2007, 01:35 AM
SMS, err Missouri State.
ahhh. At least you are not a Tiger.

SPchief
04-03-2007, 01:44 AM
Your argument is reductionism, plain and simple; Florida may have two NC's, but barring a long-term consistency in conference and the tournament like KU, they may eventually fall out of favor as a great basketball school while KU will always remain as such. :p


Congrats on winning 0 championships in the last 19 years.

Tactical Funky
04-03-2007, 01:48 AM
Congrats on winning 0 championships in the last 19 years.
Why thank you!

First off, I'd like to thank our director and producer for showing us how to make a great fil...hey, wait a second...

:cuss:

Pants
04-03-2007, 02:00 AM
They back it up with all of those championships.

That's pretty much all you retarded nay sayers have to say. What happens if KU wins next year? Oh I know, you will say "hahah lol only 1 chapionshizp in 20 yaerz lololo111" right? If they win again, it'll be "lol har roflcopter only 2 championz in 25 yars!``" Right?

That's like saying Indy wasn't a powerhouse of the 2000's because they didn't win a Superbowl (pre 2006-07).

SPchief
04-03-2007, 02:05 AM
That's pretty much all you retarded nay sayers have to say. What happens if KU wins next year? Oh I know, you will say "hahah lol only 1 chapionshizp in 20 yaerz lololo111" right? If they win again, it'll be "lol har roflcopter only 2 championz in 25 yars!``" Right?

That's like saying Indy wasn't a powerhouse of the 2000's because they didn't win a Superbowl (pre 2006-07).



This is all you have? What if? Maybe nexr year? Are you carl?

Silock
04-03-2007, 03:13 AM
As a Jayhawk, I'll be the FIRST one to admit that KU needs to win a championship soon. The fact that the other elite programs have won more recently than we have is, quite frankly, embarrassing. However, that does NOT mean that KU isn't an elite program. If it weren't respected, how many seasons would we be ranked preseason top 5? I realize that preseason means nothing in the grand scheme of things, but we get recognition and respect year in and year out, every single game.

KU has still fielded some very competent and capable teams in the past few years. It just so happens that this year, our team picked a bad night to go ice cold from point blank range. OSU picked a terrible night to go cold from anything besides point blank range. It doesn't mean OSU sucks. It just means they had a bad game. It happens. That's the nature of the tournament. It's unforgiving. The best team doesn't always win. That doesn't mean it's not fair, or that the winner doesn't deserve to be called National Champions. They do.

But there's no reason to act like KU isn't an elite program simply because of a lack of recent national championships. I have a very strong feeling we'll get ours soon. Maybe not next year, but we can't be down like this forever.

DaWolf
04-03-2007, 05:09 AM
Am I the only one that finds it ironic that we, a bunch of Chiefs fans, are sitting here laughing at someone's lack of recent championships?

Braincase
04-03-2007, 05:26 AM
This thread brought to you by the Sam Gilbert Look the Other Way Society.

Ari Chi3fs
04-03-2007, 05:40 AM
I'd rather choke in the FF every time than not get to the tourney. Seriously, I sometimes get pissed off at myself for being stuck as a Chiefs fan (can't change the love for a team) and pretty much hate the world at those times, but I'm always proud and happy to be a Jayhawk fan.

If you don't see KU as one of the elite programs in the nation, more power to you. But then again, I would say the same thing about your overall stupidity.


exactly. Logical can choke on a donkey cock.

Braincase
04-03-2007, 05:48 AM
exactly. Logical can choke on a donkey cock.

I bet Jim can't name another state with the population of Kansas that has as many basketball championships, or as many Div. 1 schools that have been to the Final Four....




.... because their aren't any.

Comparing the state of Kansas with a population of 3 million people to states like California, Texas and Florida is, well, stupid.

And Larry Brown taking the fall for the Sam Gilbert UCLA relationship is even stupider. Wooden turned a blind eye for years.

Stewie
04-03-2007, 06:23 AM
This thread brought to you by the Sam Gilbert Look the Other Way Society.

A coach was asked back in the day about coaching against John Wooden. He said, "I don't coach against John Wooden, I coach against Sam Gilbert!" Or something like that.

Bob Dole
04-03-2007, 06:29 AM
I bet Jim can't name another state with the population of Kansas that has as many basketball championships, or as many Div. 1 schools that have been to the Final Four....

And they even have 4 players actually from Kansas on the team.

Simplex3
04-03-2007, 06:29 AM
God damn this is the stupidest ****ing conversation.
:clap:

...brought to you by a bunch of guys who need to find a hobby.

Skip Towne
04-03-2007, 06:58 AM
SMS, err Missouri State.
And you're mouthing off? Hahahahaha

StcChief
04-03-2007, 07:03 AM
yeah KU owns :rolleyes:

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 07:04 AM
How many other teams now have as many or more National Championships and better still back to back ones.ROFL


I see no reason for this thread. 4, count them, 4 total National Championships is nothing to sneeze at. KU is still top 5 college program in the US.

Your attempt was weak Jim, definitely not some of your better material. :shake:

Skip Towne
04-03-2007, 07:09 AM
I see no reason for this thread. 4, count them, 4 total National Championships is nothing to sneeze at. KU is still top 5 college program in the US.

Your attempt was weak Jim, definitely not some of your better material. :shake:
This is just Jim being a turd......again.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 07:10 AM
What makes KU even more Elite, is people like Logical drooling and crying over them at ever possible chance he can get..

Logical, IF KU wasnt elite, then you would be so concerned about them.. Thanks for noticing, We will still year in and year out be a National Contender, while others dream and envy the elite status...

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 07:11 AM
This is just Jim being a turd......again.


You mean one of these?

http://www.nopeitssoap.com/AnimatedPooSteamingCLR.gif

Pants
04-03-2007, 07:13 AM
yeah KU owns SIU :wayne:

FYP

DJay23
04-03-2007, 07:18 AM
What makes KU even more Elite, is people like Logical drooling and crying over them at ever possible chance he can get..

Logical, IF KU wasnt elite, then you would be so concerned about them.. Thanks for noticing, We will still year in and year out be a National Contender, while others dream and envy the elite status...
What he said.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 07:19 AM
This is all you have? What if? Maybe nexr year? Are you carl?


And what do you have ? :hmmm: Bears ? ROFL


Like Apples & Oranges .......... Err,rather make that your Prunes ( SMS ) vs ( KU ) Oranges.

Keep dreaming lil bear , err I mean prune........... :)

jidar
04-03-2007, 07:31 AM
go find a fire and ****ing die in it

Cochise
04-03-2007, 08:04 AM
Am I the only one that finds it ironic that we, a bunch of Chiefs fans, are sitting here laughing at someone's lack of recent championships?

It's acceptable in college to continually lose in the playoffs and not get your title. When it's the Chiefs you are talking about that's different... the pro teams, mediocrity in the postseason unacceptable. In college, postseason mediocrity is not only acceptable but something fans lord over other fans. It's a unique phenomenon. In fact, a friend of mine I remember laughed at someone wearing a "Chiefs AFC Western Division Champions" shirt, but he brags all the time about his college team's conference wins, which never translate into a title. Kind of odd. I assume there's some nuance that means it's totally different.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 08:10 AM
It's acceptable in college to continually lose in the playoffs and not get your title. When it's the Chiefs you are talking about that's different... the pro teams, mediocrity in the postseason unacceptable. In college, postseason mediocrity is not only acceptable but something fans lord over other fans. It's a unique phenomenon. In fact, a friend of mine I remember laughed at someone wearing a "Chiefs AFC Western Division Champions" shirt, but he brags all the time about his college team's conference wins, which never translate into a title. Kind of odd. I assume there's some nuance that means it's totally different.


College = Kids and Young adults - You have to fail to learn how to suceed...

Pro = Over Paid Whiney Adults - Adults playing a childs game where they could careless about winning or losing, only worried about getting "Paid".

Pants
04-03-2007, 08:12 AM
... the pro teams, mediocrity in the postseason unacceptable. In college, postseason mediocrity is not only acceptable but something fans lord over other fans

Since when is one and done mediocre?

Baby Lee
04-03-2007, 08:26 AM
Seems like the status of KU is pretty well established when someone thinks . . .

Florida just beat Ohio State for the National Championship, what does that say about. . . KU?

Mr. Laz
04-03-2007, 08:44 AM
When is the last time UCLA won an NCAA tournament game outside of California?

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 08:50 AM
Seems like the status of KU is pretty well established when someone thinks . . .

Florida just beat Ohio State for the National Championship, what does that say about. . . KU?

That the tourney is a crap shoot and the best sporting event in the world...

It sucks that KU always has to make the tourney and always has to be ranked....

Maybe they can be like MU someday?

Pitt Gorilla
04-03-2007, 08:54 AM
That the tourney is a crap shoot and the best sporting event in the world...

It sucks that KU always has to make the tourney and always has to be ranked....

Maybe they can be like MU someday?
And yet, Hawk fans always feel the need to bring up MU.

Brock
04-03-2007, 08:55 AM
And yet, Hawk fans always feel the need to bring up MU.

Sure, and if Bronco fans hammer on the Chiefs, nobody mentions the Broncos, right?

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 08:56 AM
And yet, Hawk fans always feel the need to bring up MU.


Of Course! And yet a Pitt State fan feels the need to comment about KU when ever he can...

Braincase
04-03-2007, 08:57 AM
That the tourney is a crap shoot and the best sporting event in the world...

It sucks that KU always has to make the tourney and always has to be ranked....

Maybe they can be like MU someday?

And retroactively remove all the Final Four appearances?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 08:59 AM
This thread is for nothing but the haters to get their jollies off on.......

Go ahead haters, Everbody jack off to the countdown to 1 , counting down 3 2 1 , Go, who's the fastest of them all ?

l

Baby Lee
04-03-2007, 09:03 AM
And yet, Hawk fans always feel the need to bring up MU.
I honestly wish MU was a better team. I miss the days when KU/MU showdowns were between top 5 teams.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 09:06 AM
I honestly wish MU was a better team. I miss the days when KU/MU showdowns were between top 5 teams.
Lets hope that MU and KSU pick it up.

I would nothing more than like OSU, Texas, Texas A&M, TT, MU and KSU battle it out along with KU for the conference titles...

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:15 AM
When is the last time UCLA won an NCAA tournament game outside of California?I believe last year and they won the entire championship in 95 far more recently than KU.:p

StcChief
04-03-2007, 09:17 AM
or maybe just maybe some of the other Division I programs are getting better..... doesn't seem to hard to fathom.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:17 AM
Lets hope that MU and KSU pick it up.

I would nothing more than like OSU, Texas, Texas A&M, TT, MU and KSU battle it out along with KU for the conference titles...


It would be odd for them ( KSU & MU ) to speak of what they have acomplished instead of hating on KU for not winning a NC .....

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 09:19 AM
I believe last year and they won the entire championship in 95 far more recently than KU.:p


Why are the Chareger fans flooding our board talking about KU?

Logical, shouldnt you be worried about your new coach?

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:23 AM
What makes KU even more Elite, is people like Logical drooling and crying over them at ever possible chance he can get..

Logical, IF KU wasnt elite, then you would be so concerned about them.. Thanks for noticing, We will still year in and year out be a National Contender, while others dream and envy the elite status...

Being a UCLA fan I can laugh at the idea KU is elite, an excellent top tier and quality program no doubt, but with only 2 National titles spread over about 50 years calling them elite is a stretch.

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:24 AM
Why are the Chareger fans flooding our board talking about KU?

Logical, shouldnt you be worried about your new coach?I probably have been a Chiefs fan longer than you have been alive, first started being a Chiefs fan in 1964, so try again.

Brock
04-03-2007, 09:26 AM
Being a UCLA fan I can laugh at the idea KU is elite, an excellent top tier and quality program no doubt, but with only 2 National titles spread over about 50 years calling them elite is a stretch.

Yet another "picked your team out of the phone book" fan. People like you and mecca are hilarious.

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:26 AM
I bet Jim can't name another state with the population of Kansas that has as many basketball championships, or as many Div. 1 schools that have been to the Final Four....




.... because their aren't any.

Comparing the state of Kansas with a population of 3 million people to states like California, Texas and Florida is, well, stupid.

And Larry Brown taking the fall for the Sam Gilbert UCLA relationship is even stupider. Wooden turned a blind eye for years.
Uh Oklahoma, Indiana, Kentucky are about the same size.

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:28 AM
Yet another "picked your team out of the phone book" fan. People like you and mecca are hilarious.

Say what you will but I first became a fan of UCLA BB in 1965, if that is a phonebook fan so be it.

Brock
04-03-2007, 09:29 AM
Uh Kentucky is about the same size.

Uh no it isn't. Neither geographically nor demographically.

Brock
04-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Say what you will but I first became a fan of UCLA BB in 1965, if that is a phonebook fan so be it.

That is a phonebook fan. Congrats on rooting insensibly for a team you have no connection to whatsoever.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 09:31 AM
Being a UCLA fan I can laugh at the idea KU is elite, an excellent top tier and quality program no doubt, but with only 2 National titles spread over about 50 years calling them elite is a stretch.


So why hasnt UCLA won a title since 1995?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:31 AM
Being a UCLA fan I can laugh at the idea KU is elite, an excellent top tier and quality program no doubt, but with only 2 National titles spread over about 50 years calling them elite is a stretch.


You are selective I see, did you forget about the Helms NC before you were born ?After all, there wasn't an NCAA. But it was the Natinal Championship Tourney games being played.

But that's OK, all rivals and hatewrs are selective, we really don't hold that against you for being odd and unfair about it . :p :D

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:35 AM
I bet Jim can't name another state with the population of Kansas that has as many basketball championships, or as many Div. 1 schools that have been to the Final Four....




.... because their aren't any.

Comparing the state of Kansas with a population of 3 million people to states like California, Texas and Florida is, well, stupid.

And Larry Brown taking the fall for the Sam Gilbert UCLA relationship is even stupider. Wooden turned a blind eye for years.

UCLA will never admit to that.... The NCAA didn't pursue it like they would in todays time. That was a nice run they had, but it was bought and paid for........

Wodden is known as a Great coach, in reality, he was a good coach with exceptional talent , per Sam Gilbert.

http://www.sportspages.com/content/blog.php?p=461&more=1

Enjoy it ..........

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:37 AM
Uh no it isn't. Neither geographically nor demographically.
Fine then Oklahoma with more national championships between Okla State and Okla is smaller.:p

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:38 AM
UCLA will never admit to that.... The NCAA didn't pursue it like they would in todays time. That was a nice run they had, but it was bought and paid for........

Wodden is known as a Great coach, in reality, he was a good coach with exceptional talent , per Sam Gilbert.

http://www.sportspages.com/content/blog.php?p=461&more=1

Enjoy it ..........Proof?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:43 AM
Proof?


Come on Jim, yur not naive. Why else did the NCAA finally step in and made UCLA break ties with Gilbert ?

It is forever written about, just Google Sam Gilbert UCLA and get all the stories you want to read.

Enjoy ..........

ROFL

Brock
04-03-2007, 09:44 AM
Fine then Oklahoma with more national championships between Okla State and Okla is smaller.:p

How many NCAA tournament championships was that again?

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:46 AM
So why hasnt UCLA won a title since 1995?Uh we have been to the final and final four in the last two years. When was the last time KU won a title? Oh thats right 1988

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:47 AM
Here ya go Jim, 1 of many reads ..........

Time to be Honest About Wooden's Legacy [ By: Brian Seel ]
bseel@msn.com @ 11:27:41
As Bobby Knight approaches his 800th career win, I can’t help but look back at how we consistently demonize good people and yet exalt others as though thy are completely infallible. No, this isn’t a column defending Knight, while it shouldn’t be necessary that column will come later. This is a column about something that has bothered me for a long time. It is about a coach who is the most revered in his sport, even to this day. It is all based on a legacy that is less than pure. It is something that doesn’t get talked about often enough. Given the stature this coach has attained, I am not surprised. But one of the benefits of being a blogger and not a sportswriter, is I can write about things like this.

We are going to talk about the legacy of John Wooden. We all know the records, the accomplishments. He won 10 titles in 12 years, a feat that will never again be equaled. He coached players like Walton and Alcindor. His teams ran off incredible winning streaks. You know about the pyramid of success. You know about his coaching genius.

But this is the rest of the story. What never gets talked about is how all of that talent got assembled, and how UCLA may have been the only college team in history to have their own General Manager. Sam Gilbert was that man. Gilbert was a huge booster for UCLA back during Wooden’s time. He always had a great seat, and he had unprecedented access to a college basketball program.

Dwight Chapin and Jeff Prugh wrote extensively about Gilbert’s relationship in their 1973 book The Wizard of Westwood. Gilbert’s relationship with the program starts with Willie Naulls, an All-American center at UCLA in 1956. Gilbert formed a business relationship with Naulls after he left school. Naulls would be very helpful in keeping Walt Hazzard in school in the 1960s.

Gilbert also frequently entertained players at his place at Lake Arrowhead. Here he would listen to the problems of the players and no doubt offer what support he could. Gilbert liked to refer to himself as a ‘surrogate father’ of the players. The license plate on his car read, ‘Papa G’ and he was often referred to as ‘Papa Sam’. The guy was just being friendly right? He couldn’t possibly be one of those rich egomaniacs who enjoys the friendship of star collegiate athletes and doles out cash to earn those friendships?

Chapin and Prugh characterize Gilbert in the book as doing everything for his favored players, even picking up medical tabs for girlfriends’ abortions. Jerry Tarkanian has told the Los Angeles Times, ‘Everybody knows what went on during the Sam Gilbert era. The only team with a higher payroll was the Lakers. During the Sam Gilbert era, UCLA was in a different class. All those guys lived in beautiful apartments and drove beautiful cars’.

While one can’t help but chuckle at the irony of Tarkanian challenging Wooden’s ethics, it is certainly an interesting juxtaposition. One coach, deemed a rebel, an outlaw carrying on a three-decade fight with the NCAA. The other, held in the highest esteem by those in the media, the national championship award named after him, and revered by many in his profession.

Marques Johnson, a former UCLA All-American, has downplayed the relationship Gilbert had with the players. Wooden himself, in an interview with CBS SportsLine two years ago said, ‘I never had him talk with a recruit and I never sent a recruit to him. I just knew that he’s one who might do things to help kids, in some way, that could get us into trouble’.

By the sounds of it, Wooden wouldn’t have had to send any recruits to Gilbert. The other players would have let them know, or Gilbert might have found them first. Trainer Ducky Drake once had to ask Gilbert not to disturb napping players on the road.

When you read the story of Gilbert’s involvement, it starts to become very clear why Wooden went 16 seasons before his first national title, then magically reeled off 10 in 12 years. As Gilbert’s involvement grew in the late 50s and early 60s so did the talent level at UCLA. Wooden was always a good coach, Gilbert provided the edge to get him the talent he needed.

What bothers me about this story, even more than the thought that somebody could buy that much influence and access to a program, is Wooden’s reaction to the whole thing. In the course of his interview with CBS SportsLine, Wooden said this, “It (the criticism) doesn’t bother me, no, because I had no relationship with him (Gilbert) and I tried to make sure my players tried to be very, very careful’.

Had no relationship with him? That sounds more like sticking your head in the sand. It is believable up to the point where you find out this guy was visiting players’ rooms on road trips. Wooden went on to say, ‘It does not bother me. If I had any guilt, I suppose it would bother me. But I feel no guilt at all. I did what I could’.

Wooden did what he could, he ignored something that was obviously wrong because he was benefiting from it enormously. The players were taken care of in ways that were clearly violations of NCAA rules. If these are the stories that come out, you can only imagine how bad what really went on was. It clearly influenced recruits to attend UCLA. With all of the advantages they already have (being in Bel Air, being in LA, near the beach, etc.) the fact that a recruit could be taken care of for four years would put them over the top. And it did, 10 times in 12 years. But they are tainted championships, every last one.

Lest some of you still think this was all innocent. Larry Brown paid the price for Wooden’s ambivalence toward Gilbert. The NCAA investigated after Wooden’s tenure, and put UCLA on probation in 1981 for two years. They also ordered the program to sever ties with Gilbert. No wrongdoing, yet they were punished, confused?

The answer is simple. The NCAA only really started to gain any kind of enforcement authority in the 1970s. By that point it was too late, the myth of Wooden and UCLA had grown. Much like the situation with Chris Webber now, the NCAA probably didn’t want to know. Having a power team in the nation’s second largest TV market did wonders for the game. Had the NCAA investigated UCLA during Wooden’s tenure, they would have been forced to vacate 10 national titles in 12 years. A scandal of that proportion, at that time, might have crippled the sport.

Wooden has chosen to live off of his squeaky clean image as a great coach and teacher. He has casually ignored how his program acquired, retained, and kept very happy the talent that allowed the world to see his coaching genius. I can never hear about UCLA’s titles or see an interview with Wooden without thinking of Sam Gilbert. The man won 10 titles by cheating, and to see him held up as the ideal for all coaches to aspire to, is one of the great injustices of this world. But at least now, those of you who read this know….the rest of the story.

Redrum_69
04-03-2007, 09:48 AM
The only kind of elite status KU had was at choking on big games

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:49 AM
How many NCAA tournament championships was that again?Five final 2 games.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 09:49 AM
The only kind of elite status KU had was at choking on big games


sort of like your mom choking on big game?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:50 AM
http://www.english.ucla.edu/ucla1960s/7071/austin12.htm

Sam Gilbert

While he never finished earning his degree at UCLA in the 1930s, Sam Gilbert became devoted to the school, especially its athletic program. By the 1960s, Gilbert had become a millionaire contractor in the Los Angeles area and had decided to give back to UCLA. During this time, he donated millions of dollars to UCLA academic programs and also began to form ties with the basketball team.

According to many UCLA players during the 1960s, Gilbert was known as Papa Sam. His home was always open to the Bruins and it was not uncommon to see several players lounging near his pool with him and his wife Rose on a weekend. The players trusted him as a confidant and a mentor. Players such as Sidney Wicks, Lew Alcindor, Larry Farmer, Bill Walton, and many others all came to Sam for friendship and counsel.

Sam was known to push the NCAA rules to the limit. If a player did not have money for books, he would arrange for the books to be purchased and delivered to the player. If a player needed an apartment, Sam always knew of an available one. Sam helped the players find the best deals on anything they needed.

Many people around the college basketball world have argued that Sam Gilbert committed infractions far worse than those above. Former Long Beach State and UNLV basketball coach Jerry Tarkanian has stated how he believes that the only team in Los Angeles with a higher payroll than the Bruins in the 1960s and 1970s was the Lakers. Tarkanian, along with a slew of others, believe that Gilbert provided the players with cash, cars, and whatever else they needed. Tarkanian’s program at UNLV came under suspicion of NCAA rule infractions and he constantly brought up that UCLA never faced as much pressure from the NCAA in regards to Sam Gilbert’s supposed infractions as his program did because John Wooden was untouchable. It was often noted that John Wooden knew that his players hung out at Sam Gilbert’s house but he had no personal relationship with Sam himself.

In 1981, the UCLA basketball program was placed on probation and UCLA was ordered to disassociate Sam Gilbert from the recruiting process. UCLA was told to disassociate Gilbert from the recruiting process because his name was used to co-sign a loan for a player’s car along with several other infractions.

Government officials report that a year after being forced away from the UCLA Basketball program, Gilbert began laundering money for a known drug runner in a scheme that supposedly made him $36 million. Coincidentally, when federal agents finally had enough evidence to arrest and went to his home on November, 24th 1987 in Pacific Palisades, they learned that he had passed away two days earlier of cancer.

Sam Gilbert remained a man of mystery all the way to his grave. Some former UCLA players say he helped the team out but did nothing to explicitly violate NCAA rules, others say he bought them whatever they needed. Some people claim the university was fully aware of what he was doing, other say he was doing nothing wrong. The same sense of uncertainty regarding Sam Gilbert was true with his alleged involvement with a drug runner. Many claim that Sam would never get involved with such people when he already had enough money while others remain skeptical of who his acquaintances were.

Regardless of Sam Gilbert’s involvement with the UCLA basketball team, nothing should be taken away from the spectacular accomplishments of the players and coaches.

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:50 AM
Here ya go Jim, 1 of many reads ..........

Time to be Honest About Wooden's Legacy [ By: Brian Seel ]
bseel@msn.com @ 11:27:41
....That is not proof that is just allegations.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 09:51 AM
Uh we have been to the final and final four in the last two years. When was the last time KU won a title? Oh thats right 1988


Um wierd? KU just came off a back to back in 02 and 03, then elite 8 in 04, followed by and elite 8 in 07...

But I guess that doesnt count huh?

So can you just answer the question that was asked?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:53 AM
http://www.basketballtimes.com/bt_wooden.html

There seems little contradiction in the way that Wooden taught his players and the way that he lived his life. For the most part, they seem to be one and the same.

But there is one thing that doesn’t fit with the man and the example that he set for all.
And that’s Sam Gilbert.

Gilbert was a wealthy and powerful L.A. contractor who made little secret of lavishing gifts upon UCLA basketball and USC football players – even paying for their girlfriends’ abortions – at the height of those teams’ glory days. An NCAA investigation during Larry Brown’s watch put the Bruins on probation during the 1980-81 season, voided their second-place finish in 1980 and forced Gilbert to disassociate himself from the program.
Nothing was found on Wooden, though he still is often charged with turning a blind eye toward Gilbert, who died in 1987, four days before an unaware Florida grand jury, indicted him on a money-laundering scheme. The irreverent Jerry Tarkanian once called Gilbert the most important block in Wooden’s Pyramid of Success.

“My feeling on Sam Gilbert was that, probably at heart, he thought he was doing a good thing,” Wooden said. “But I thought he was doing things. I never knew for sure, but I was always suspicious. I always worried about him, I’ll tell you that.”

“I had asked him to let my players alone and to not bother them. And Mr. Morgan had, too. I would tell my players to stay away and not be involved, because they could get themselves in trouble and the school in trouble.”

Gilbert only began showing up around the program after the Bruins began winning championships, said Wooden, who maintains that he is confident that Gilbert never had anything to do with a player choosing to attend UCLA. Wooden said Gilbert’s widow still comes to talk to him before each UCLA home game.

“I tried my very best,” said Wooden, “but I sometimes found the leather jackets and boots that Rowe and Wicks were wearing, I don’t think they could afford them.
“I questioned: ‘Did Sam Gilbert get these for you?’
“(Rowe and Wicks): ‘No.’
“(Wooden): ‘Did he arrange for you to get them at a better price?’
“(Rowe and Wicks): ‘Don’t you shop around for better prices when you get things?’
“(Wooden): ‘Well, now you’re beating around it. You better be careful. I don’t like this at all.’”
And still doesn’t. For an instant, the kindly great-grandfather stiffened, folding his arms, and became the coach again, refusing to back down to yet another who had come to test him.
“I know I never used him,” Wooden said. “My conscience is clear. When some say the program is tainted, that doesn’t bother me a bit.”

*****

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 09:54 AM
How many other teams now have as many or more National Championships and better still back to back ones.ROFL
This is beneath you... or so I thought.

What's gotten more stupid around here... KU hating just to poke at the fans... or GoChiefs' attention whoring? It's awfully close.

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:54 AM
Um wierd? KU just came off a back to back in 02 and 03, then elite 8 in 04, followed by and elite 8 in 07...

But I guess that doesnt count huh?

So can you just answer the question that was asked?Did they win any of those tournaments? Nope.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:55 AM
That is not proof that is just allegations.

Blind Eye ?

It has been written and talked about for years now, when you going to catch up ?

Still being selective I see ! ROFL

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 09:55 AM
Did they win any of those tournaments? Nope.


So what is the arguement? UCLA hasnt won a title since 1995 and KU 1988?

Big freaking deal...

Did UCLA win last year or this year? NOPE!

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:56 AM
This is beneath you... or so I thought.

What's gotten more stupid around here... KU hating just to poke at the fans... or GoChiefs' attention whoring? It's awfully close.

Oh no it is completely within my evil mastermind profile. You KU lovers dominate the BB with your drivel for months on end then you get a little smaque shoved in your face, factual smaque by the way and you cry like babies.

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:57 AM
So what is the arguement? UCLA hasnt won a title since 1995 and KU 1988?

Big freaking deal...

Did UCLA win last year or this year? NOPE!Went to the final and the final four and beat KUs ass.:p

Logical
04-03-2007, 09:59 AM
Blind Eye ?

It has been written and talked about for years now, when you going to catch up ?

Still being selective I see ! ROFLStill looking for proof. NCAA sanctions on Wooden or any of Wooden's players. I don't suppose your national championship wasn't bought and paid for with coaching job for Danny Mannings dad.:harumph:

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 09:59 AM
Oh no it is completely within my evil mastermind profile. You KU lovers dominate the BB with your drivel for months on end then you get a little smaque shoved in your face, factual smaque by the way and you cry like babies.

So who is in denial about Gilbert ?
:rolleyes:

Logical
04-03-2007, 10:00 AM
So who is in denial about Gilbert ?
:rolleyes:Never been proven.:D

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:02 AM
Still looking for proof. NCAA sanctions on Wooden or any of Wooden's players. I don't suppose your national championship wasn't bought and paid for with coaching job for Danny Mannings dad.:harumph:

Truth be known, there is limits that are pushed by every college basketball powerhouse teams out there. They want that edge and will be creative to get it.Even cheating if they can .....

For Manning, of course, why else did his daddy get the job ? Legal, yes, unethical, of course. Same for Mario now.

It happens everywhere, I don't have a blind eye........ nor is denial in my volcabulary.

Brock
04-03-2007, 10:02 AM
Oh no it is completely within my senile brain-damaged profile. I like to post attention whoring drivel for years on end because my personal life is such a mess.

fyp

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Never been proven.:D

Wasn't pushed back then like it is now........ Read the 1st article, it paints a very clear picture. Or are you still being selective ?
:hmmm:

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 10:03 AM
Oh no it is completely within my evil mastermind profile. You KU lovers dominate the BB with your drivel for months on end then you get a little smaque shoved in your face, factual smaque by the way and you cry like babies.
I don't remember crying. I just said this continued circle jerk is stupid... and it makes you look like a big baby too.

Did UCLA win it all this year? I forgot.

My team didn't win either so I'll console myself by poking at KU fans.

If that's what gets you off... and imagine a bb in the middle of KU territory being dominated by Jayhawks fans. Go figure. Next thing you know we'll get over run by Chiefs fans.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:06 AM
Went to the final and the final four and beat KUs ass.:p


Wow dude are you what 16? Your arguing the same point? You are bashing KU for the same reason you just stated about your own team?


You went to the final four, and got beat... You played in the NC game last year and got beat.. Mirroring KU in 02 and 03...

So what is your point? Your arguement doesnt really make sense?

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:08 AM
I don't remember crying. I just said this continued circle jerk is stupid... and it makes you look like a big baby too.

Did UCLA win it all this year? I forgot.

My team didn't win either so I'll console myself by poking at KU fans.

If that's what gets you off... and imagine a bb in the middle of KU territory being dominated by Jayhawks fans. Go figure. Next thing you know we'll get over run by Chiefs fans.


Agian Beer Me, IF KU wasnt elite, Logical wouldnt be worried about it...

He should just go back to his Charger boards and soak up that SoCal sun..

Why even bother with us evil midwesterners?

Logical
04-03-2007, 10:08 AM
Truth be known, there is limits that are pushed by every college basketball powerhouse teams out there. They want that edge and will be creative to get it.Even cheating if they can .....

For Manning, of course, why else did his daddy get the job ? Legal, yes, unethical, of course. Same for Mario now.

It happens everywhere, I don't have a blind eye........ nor is denial in my volcabulary.

The only thing we know for a fact about Papa Sam is that he commonly invited the players to dinner and it was common for him to counsel them. Truth is everything else is completely based on speculation. Hell it has been rumored that the financial shenanigans if they existed actually came from another source (LA is a big city). Like I said no proof.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:11 AM
I don't remember crying. I just said this continued circle jerk is stupid... and it makes you look like a big baby too.

Did UCLA win it all this year? I forgot.

My team didn't win either so I'll console myself by poking at KU fans.

If that's what gets you off... and imagine a bb in the middle of KU territory being dominated by Jayhawks fans. Go figure. Next thing you know we'll get over run by Chiefs fans.


ROFL ROFL ROFL :clap:

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:14 AM
The only thing we know for a fact about Papa Sam is that he commonly invited the players to dinner and it was common for him to counsel them. Truth is everything else is completely based on speculation. Hell it has been rumored that the financial shenanigans if they existed actually came from another source (LA is a big city). Like I said no proof.


Blind eyes and denials are legitimate excuses too, right ? Like I said, selective.......... :rolleyes:

Logical
04-03-2007, 10:14 AM
Wow dude are you what 16? Your arguing the same point? You are bashing KU for the same reason you just stated about your own team?


You went to the final four, and got beat... You played in the NC game last year and got beat.. Mirroring KU in 02 and 03...

So what is your point? Your arguement doesnt really make sense?

Scoreboard baby

11 NCs most recent 95.
13 finals appearences most recent 2006
16 final four appearances most recent 2007
85 tournament game victories
39 Tournament appearances

Logical
04-03-2007, 10:15 AM
Agian Beer Me, IF KU wasnt elite, Logical wouldnt be worried about it...

He should just go back to his Charger boards and soak up that SoCal sun..

Why even bother with us evil midwesterners?Like I said been a Chiefs fan since before you were born most likely so this is weak.

Cochise
04-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Backtracking, but if you live in CA why can't you root for UCLA?

Most people have one of two or three connections to a team. They are the team in their home area who they grew up watching. They are the team in an area to which they relocated and became the person's new home team. Or, they are an alumnus of the school in question.

I thought he lived in CA so... so? Is there a certain mile radius you had to live in below a certain age? If here were in Kansas City and had no connection the area... ok. If someone lives in North Dakota and has never lived in Kansas and didn't go to KU and was a KU fan, ok. That's a phonebook fan. And if he's really been on their side since the 60s, that is longer than most of us have been alive so...

Not to defend Logical or anything...

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Scoreboard baby

11 NCs most recent 95.
13 finals appearences most recent 2006
16 final four appearances most recent 2007
85 tournament game victories
39 Tournament appearances


And? Your point?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:18 AM
Wow dude are you what 16? Your arguing the same point? You are bashing KU for the same reason you just stated about your own team?


You went to the final four, and got beat... You played in the NC game last year and got beat.. Mirroring KU in 02 and 03...

So what is your point? Your arguement doesnt really make sense?

But, but, but, that's different, it's UCLA who has a tarnished image of cheating during the 60's and 70's until the NCAA decided to enforce the rules.

FTR Jim, go look up how many teams had recruiting or team violations before 1975 .......

It's a telling story on how they over looked alot of infractions by schools.....

I'll see if I can find it for you, OK. It was last year I read it, but if I can find it, maybe you will change your mind, BTA, being selective does have it's limitations. :rolleyes:

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:19 AM
Like I said been a Chiefs fan since before you were born most likely so this is weak.


I guess you are still stinging from the game on Saturday huh?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:21 AM
OBTW Jim, here is another story for you to be selective with from last year ..........
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-uclalegacy040206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Everyone loves a winner
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
April 2, 2006

Dan Wetzel
Yahoo! Sports
INDIANAPOLIS – UCLA has the greatest, grandest tradition in college basketball: 11 national championships, 34 first-team All-America selections, an 88-game win streak and on and on. All run by perhaps the most wonderful gentleman the game has ever known, John Wooden.

But then it has this:

"I hate to say anything that may hurt UCLA, but I can't be quiet when I see what the NCAA is doing (to other coaches) only because (they have) a reputation for giving a second chance to many black athletes other coaches have branded as troublemakers. The NCAA is working night and day trying to get (them), but no one from the NCAA ever questioned me during my four years at UCLA."

That quote comes from none other than Bill Walton, maybe the greatest Bruin of them all, in a 1978 book "Bill Walton: On the Road with the Portland Trail Blazers," which went on to detail how Sam Gilbert, a Los Angeles contractor the feds allege made millions laundering drug money, bought a decade worth of recruits for UCLA.

"It's hard for me to have a proper perspective on financial matters, since I've always had whatever I wanted since I enrolled at UCLA," Walton said.

ADVERTISEMENT
That is the conundrum of UCLA and college sports as the Bruins go for their 12th NCAA title here Monday against Florida.

On one hand, UCLA has a tradition rich with success, class and glory. Good people, great stories, wonderful memories. On the other is the fact the Bruins eviscerated the rule book like no program before or after, but went largely unpunished by a NCAA that wanted no part of taking down its marquee team.

And the truth is, neither image is wrong. And neither one is right. This is college athletics, yesterday, today and probably forever, no matter how sweet the package, now matter how pretty the bow.

It is how Wooden, universally hailed for his remarkable grace and humility, has wound up seemingly beyond reproach. No matter how dirty his program, today he sells books, speeches and financial planning commercials based on his image of trust and honesty.

The question is always why would UCLA have to cheat, what with its tremendous academics, beautiful campus and proximity to talent. But it is telling that it took Wooden, arguably the greatest coach of all time, 15 seasons to win a national title. Before Gilbert got involved and the talent arrived, the Bruins weren't the best. Which ought to tell you what the competition was up to.

Maybe it is Wooden's class that has kept talk of tainted titles to a minimum. But none of this is a secret in basketball. In the late 1970s, after Wooden retired, the Los Angeles Times did an investigation of Gilbert and the NCAA was forced to sanction UCLA, but never vacated any championships. Then there is Walton's book, which couldn't be more damning.

The NCAA never bothered to investigate UCLA during Wooden's time, part of its history of selective enforcement. During the 1960s and '70s, the organization, run by old white men, was too busy going after small, upstart programs that dared to play too many African-Americans, launching inquiries into Texas Western/UTEP, Western Kentucky, Centenary and Long Beach State.

Apparently a team capturing 10 titles in 12 years, putting together undefeated season after undefeated season, recruiting high school All-Americans from all over the country to sit on the bench, yet never having them transfer or declare hardship wasn't enough for it to dawn on anyone at the NCAA that, gee, maybe they're cheating?

But that is your NCAA.

And that is your college athletics, where corner cutting doesn't make a guy a bad person; it makes him a successful coach.

In Wooden's defense, some, including Walton, have argued that he wasn't aware of Gilbert's largesse, or at most just looked the other way. But other coaches in Southern California at the time, most notably Jerry Tarkanian, laugh at that, claiming Gilbert proudly boasted of his payouts. Tark claims Gilbert once offered to pay one of his Long Beach State stars, Robert Smith, just because he liked the way he played.

"You couldn't be more obvious than Sam," said Tarkanian. "He just laughed about it. Everyone in America knew."

Moreover, in a striking 2004 interview with Basketball Times, Wooden described confronting players Sidney Wicks and Curtis Rowe in 1969 about expensive new clothes he suspected Gilbert had purchased. "Did you get this from Sam Gilbert," he asked. "I don't like this."

"People want to say this is tainted," Wooden told BT, before folding his arms in a rare bit of anger. "I don't care. I don't believe that."

The truth of college athletics is that winning, let alone at the championship level, without rule breaking is nearly impossible. Fans and apologetic media don't want to admit this about the icons of the games, but nothing about this has changed for decades. And it probably never will.

There are no angels in this business, no white hats and black hats as the NCAA would like people to believe with its public relations campaign of a rule book. Everything is a shade of grey. Everything is situational ethics. Everything is pick your poison.

Even the great UCLA legacy. Even the great John Wooden.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:22 AM
Logical, why are you so hell bent on living in the past?

Sh*t the season is over, everyone is 0-0... Time to start looking forward to the pre-season rankings...

I couldnt even tell you who won the Tourney last year or hell even the 06-07 season tourney, Why? Because it is was last year... Time for the 07-08 season...

Stop dwelling in the past.. You look stupid, trying to make your point on a KU message board that is being borrowed by the Chiefs.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:26 AM
Man RoyC75, If it wasnt for Logicals pathetic drivel on here I wouldnt even know UCLA exists..

Those books and articles are pretty damaging towards that program...

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 10:26 AM
Like I said been a Chiefs fan since before you were born most likely so this is weak.
Well being a Chiefs fan certainly opens you up to the same kind of scrutiny you insist on using for KU doesn't it.

Do you feel like a loser when the Chiefs underachieve?... No. Do you remain a fan anyway because they're your team? Do you believe each season just MAY be the one. Do you ever get really excited by a big win? Do you believe in the Chiefs history and tradition even though they've only won one Super Bowl?

Not so different from KU fans is it. You must be one of those asshole Chiefs fans.

RJ
04-03-2007, 10:27 AM
Here's the way I look at it.

If there's no KU, there's no Adolph Rupp.

If there's no Adolpf Rupp, there's no Historic powerhouse Kentucky.

If there's no Kentucky powerhouse, there's no Rick Patino.

If theres no Rick Patino, there's no Billy Donovan.
If there's no Billy Donovan, there's no Florida back to back championships.



Dont worry people, KU has their hands dipped into just about everything. ;)



Pitino coached Donovan long before he got to Kentucky.......or was your post TIC?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:27 AM
Want more ?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/ucla/la-sp-hbo26mar26,1,5323550.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-coll-ucla

Documentary on UCLA dynasty debuts Monday
HBO film takes a look at Bruins' 10 men's basketball titles in 12 years, including comments from coach Wooden.
By Larry Stewart, Times Staff Writer
March 26, 2007

UCLA is going to a second consecutive NCAA men's basketball Final Four, but it has a long way to go to approach what the Bruins accomplished during a 12-year period ending in 1975, when they won 10 national championships.

The memories of those UCLA glory days, with Vietnam War protests and the civil rights movement as a backdrop, are brought back in an HBO documentary, "The UCLA Dynasty," which airs for the first time tonight at 10.

The one-hour film includes classic footage and photos interspersed with interviews of dozens of players and others associated with UCLA basketball during that era, including John Wooden.

Lows such as the end of the 88-game win streak in 1974 and the subsequent loss to North Carolina State in a semifinal of that year's Final Four are also included.

HBO does not ignore Sam Gilbert, a wealthy San Fernando Valley contractor who served as advisor and more to many of the players. Gilbert, who died in 1987, supplied goods and services to players and, after an investigation by then-Times sportswriters Mike Littwin and Alan Greenberg in 1981, UCLA was put on probation.

In the film, Wooden describes Gilbert as "an overzealous fan," adding, "He worried me all the time he was going to do something illegal."

Former player Lucius Allen says Gilbert, known as Papa Sam and Papa G, supplied transportation and clothes. "The way he explained it to me it was within the rules," Allen says. "But it wasn't."

The film's narrator, Liev Schreiber, says "The puzzle of Papa G remains the elephant in the UCLA trophy room."

The segment on Gilbert lasts about 2 1/2 minutes toward the end of the film. HBO producer George Roy believes he was journalistically responsible to include it or face criticism.

The late J.D. Morgan was the UCLA athletic director during those glory days, but the only mention he gets is during the Gilbert segment.

The main omission is any current interview with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was Lew Alcindor when he played for UCLA and started a run of seven consecutive titles in 1967.

Abdul-Jabbar is still a big part of the film, as is Bill Walton. But while the present-day Walton is heard from throughout the film, Abdul-Jabbar is heard from only in old clips because he declined to participate.

"I didn't have time," he said. "I'm working on getting my book out, doing a documentary based on the book and coaching the Lakers."

Abdul-Jabbar's book is "On the Shoulders of Giants: My Journey Through the Harlem Renaissance." Abdul-Jabbar said he is producing the documentary himself, having pitched the project to HBO, which turned it down. Some at HBO believe that may be why he did not agree to be interviewed.

"I have no problem with HBO," Abdul-Jabbar said. "They do great work. I didn't pick a fight with them, but that seems to be what people think. That is definitely not the case."

HBO spokesman Ray Stallone said, "We respect the right of anyone who does not want to be a part of one of our films. We have no problem with Kareem."

Wooden, 96, said after a screening of "The UCLA Dynasty" last week in Westwood that he enjoyed it very much. While addressing a crowd there, Wooden, not prone to being overly emotional, broke down and apologized that he was unable to keep talking.

The emotion of revisiting that glorious era apparently was just a little too much.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:28 AM
So Logical?

Why hasnt your beloved football team since before I was born won a championship since the 1960's?

I guess they are not elite huh?

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 10:30 AM
Hilarious thread.

First, we have Jim. I take anything Jim says about any team with a grain of salt because he is a UCLA Basketball/Notre Dame football fan.

Second, we have posters talking about how UCLA cheated. LOL. This coming from fans of a school with an Athletic Department that has been on probation at least once in every decade since 50's, and is currently on probation.

Third, meh. The word "ELITE" is thrown around so much it is more of a joke, now. Do you think recruits care how many titles UCLA won in the 60's? Do you think they care that KU has won tons of games? Nope. The #1 recruiting class in the country is going to a program that has neither a national title and hasn't won a ton of games. The whole history/tradition thing is a very Bronco-esque thing to be touting around and puffing your chest out about.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 10:31 AM
Hilarious thread.

The whole history/tradition thing is a very Bronco-esque thing to be touting around and puffing your chest out about.
K-State fan eh?

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:32 AM
Hilarious thread.

is currently on probation.

Your time is coming KSU fan... Huggy wont be able to keep his nose clean forever...

That is if he doesnt bolt to WVU....


Smile!

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:33 AM
K-State fan eh?


Talk about strutting around puffing chest out..

How many times do we have to hear about the GRCOAT?

Which isnt that Great anymore.. One player doesnt make it great.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:33 AM
Ya want a story from 1974 ?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,879296,00.html

Speaking of his good deads to the players........ Buying them, what else do you want Jim ?


A Patron Called Papa Sam
Monday, Feb. 25, 1974
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The inscription on the framed photograph of Milwaukee Bucks Center Kareem Abdul-Jabbar reads: "For a true friend in all seasons." The legend on the picture of Bruce Walton (Bill's brother) says: "Maybe it's corny, but I love you." The object of such unabashed affection is a millionaire Los Angeles building contractor, Sam Gilbert. His own three children are grown, and for Gilbert, 61, U.C.L.A. athletes—past and present—are now his family. Gilbert is their confidant, business adviser and surrogate father. Hence the nickname:

"Papa Sam."

A U.C.L.A. alumnus, Gilbert attends most home games and occasionally travels with the team. Gilbert's luxurious Pacific Palisades house, with 50-ft. swimming pool and well-stocked refrigerator, serves as a second home for the athletes. "The kids are hungry for a bit of home life," explains Gilbert's wife Rose, who teaches English at Pacific Palisades High School. "They love having this hangout." Bill Walton would agree. At last year's Thanksgiving dinner, a basketball team tradition at the Gilberts' that ranks next to Sunday bagels-and-lox brunch, Walton (on a dare) gleefully wolfed down an entire pumpkin pie smothered with a quart of ice cream. When Bill came down with a severe strep throat last season, he went to the Gilberts' to recuperate. Says Walton of Sam: "He's just a great dude."

Gilbert's study, filled with photographs and trophies that Walton has won ("Bill's not much for trophy collecting"), also serves as a counseling office for troubled players. The problems?

"You name it," Gilbert says. "Everything from pregnant girl friends, failing grades, deep disappointment in not playing either regularly or well, problems with their parents, uncertainty about their futures." Father-like he also nags his charges about their grades, and last year helped to arrange the wedding of Walton's back-up center, Swen Nater. The wedding was in conservative Orange County, and Gilbert suggested that Keith Wilkes' father, a Baptist minister, perform the ceremony. "We all loved the idea of blowing some minds in Orange County by having a black clergyman officiate at the marriage of a white couple," says Gilbert.

-Papa Sam began his relationship with U.C.L.A. basketball in the mid-1960s, when former All-America Willie Naulls brought two disgruntled sophomores, Lew Alcindor (now Jabbar) and Lucius Allen, to him for some counseling. Alcindor and Allen in turn brought their teammates, and Sam eventually negotiated the professional contracts of Alcindor, Allen and other Bruin stars, such as Sidney Wicks, Henry Bibby and Nater. Like all his other services, Gilbert's agentry comes free. "I do it because I'm a friend and also a savvy businessman who knows most of the tricks and clauses that the kids have no knowledge about."

When—and if—Bill Walton decides to negotiate a professional contract, Gilbert will call the financial shots. The San Diego Conquistadors, hoping to capitalize on the father-son relationship, recently approached Gilbert about buying the club. Gilbert rejected the deal. "I want to be Bill's friend, not his owner," he said.
Sphere It!

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 10:35 AM
Ya knew Saul was going to come in thumping something .......

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:37 AM
Ya knew Saul was going to come in thumping something .......


yeah it was just a matter of time, before he came here thumping himself all over....

But he is cool and not annoying like some others...

I usually respect his posts...

Mr. Kotter
04-03-2007, 10:39 AM
:rolleyes:

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 10:41 AM
How many times do we have to hear about the GRCOAT?


WTF is that?

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:43 AM
WTF is that?


That is KSU's new Battle Cry "Greatest Recruiting Class Of All Time"

so Michigan is getting WVU's coach... WVU? Huggies Alma? Will they come calling?

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 10:45 AM
That is KSU's new Battle Cry "Greatest Recruiting Class Of All Time"

so Michigan is getting WVU's coach... WVU? Huggies Alma? Will they come calling?
No, Huggins would never pull a Roy. ;)

BENEDICT HUGGINS! ROFL ROFL

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 10:46 AM
Anyone else notice that the KU haters on this board who make it their mission to show up the "asshole KU fans" have, in the process, become every bit of the kind of assholes they claim to differentiate themselves from?

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 10:47 AM
That is KSU's new Battle Cry "Greatest Recruiting Class Of All Time"


You mean the one that lost in round two of the NIT?

DJay23
04-03-2007, 10:49 AM
This is America, and everyone has the right to choose what team or teams they want to root for in whatever sport htey want to root for them in.

See, where I come from (Leavenworth, KS to be exact) my parents and family always taught me to be loyal to your roots. Be proud of where you're from, support your family and friends to the bitter end, and stick with each other in good times and in lean.

This is also how many of us were raised to love our sports teams. I had no decision in what team to root for. My dad took me to Chiefs games as a kid. My dad took me to Royals stadium. I remember pretending to be Danny Manning on the playground. We went to KU games in the fall. To that end, I don't follow the NBA or hockey, because as a kid there were no NBA or hockey teams in KC. Those sports were not a part of my world until I left the area and then I really never got into them.

It's about being a man. Sure, it's easy to cop out and root for a team half a continent away because they are good. But unless you or someone in your family went there, I see these people as having less than a spine. When I first started rooting for the Chiefs they SUCKED. And have continued to be mediocre to pretty good off an on since that time, but never would I ever consider jumping ship.

So when someone like Logical or GoChiefs comes around here wearing hats from 3 different states, I dismiss them. What they have to say has less meaning to me as someone like a Kcmizzou or even Saul, because they root for the hometown team across the board. And even though I hate their teams, I respect them more as men of substance.

Sincerely,

DJay23
KU fan
Royals fan
Chiefs fan
Kansan

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:53 AM
No, Huggins would never pull a Roy. ;)

BENEDICT HUGGINS! ROFL ROFL


I think your right...

From what I read, WVU doenst want anything to do with Huggins period.


Besides the Big 12 needs him right now...

Baby Lee
04-03-2007, 10:55 AM
No, Huggins would never pull a Roy. ;)

BENEDICT HUGGINS! ROFL ROFL
Query, would Donovan to KY be pulling a Roy? Or is KY so clearly more an 'elite' franchise than FL that the comparison is inapposite?

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 10:57 AM
This is America, and everyone has the right to choose what team or teams they want to root for in whatever sport htey want to root for them in.

See, where I come from (Leavenworth, KS to be exact) my parents and family always taught me to be loyal to your roots. Be proud of where you're from, support your family and friends to the bitter end, and stick with each other in good times and in lean.

This is also how many of us were raised to love our sports teams. I had no decision in what team to root for. My dad took me to Chiefs games as a kid. My dad took me to Royals stadium. I remember pretending to be Danny Manning on the playground. We went to KU games in the fall. To that end, I don't follow the NBA or hockey, because as a kid there were no NBA or hockey teams in KC. Those sports were not a part of my world until I left the area and then I really never got into them.

It's about being a man. Sure, it's easy to cop out and root for a team half a continent away because they are good. But unless you or someone in your family went there, I see these people as having less than a spine. When I first started rooting for the Chiefs they SUCKED. And have continued to be mediocre to pretty good off an on since that time, but never would I ever consider jumping ship.

So when someone like Logical or GoChiefs comes around here wearing hats from 3 different states, I dismiss them. What they have to say has less meaning to me as someone like a Kcmizzou or even Saul, because they root for the hometown team across the board. And even though I hate their teams, I respect them more as men of substance.

Sincerely,

DJay23
KU fan
Royals fan
Chiefs fan
Kansan

:bravo:

All I have known growing up is the Chiefs, Royals and KU basketball... There was never any wavering in or out of the household. Through the good times and bad times, those 3 teams dominated our conversations and still do to this day...

If it wasnt for people like Logical, I wouldnt even know teams outside of the Big 12 even existed.. For this Logical we are greatful.

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 11:03 AM
Query, would Donovan to KY be pulling a Roy? Or is KY so clearly more an 'elite' franchise than FL that the comparison is inapposite?
Who would be the "Dean Smith" in the situation?

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 11:06 AM
This is America, and everyone has the right to choose what team or teams they want to root for in whatever sport htey want to root for them in.

See, where I come from (Leavenworth, KS to be exact) my parents and family always taught me to be loyal to your roots. Be proud of where you're from, support your family and friends to the bitter end, and stick with each other in good times and in lean.

This is also how many of us were raised to love our sports teams. I had no decision in what team to root for. My dad took me to Chiefs games as a kid. My dad took me to Royals stadium. I remember pretending to be Danny Manning on the playground. We went to KU games in the fall. To that end, I don't follow the NBA or hockey, because as a kid there were no NBA or hockey teams in KC. Those sports were not a part of my world until I left the area and then I really never got into them.

It's about being a man. Sure, it's easy to cop out and root for a team half a continent away because they are good. But unless you or someone in your family went there, I see these people as having less than a spine. When I first started rooting for the Chiefs they SUCKED. And have continued to be mediocre to pretty good off an on since that time, but never would I ever consider jumping ship.

So when someone like Logical or GoChiefs comes around here wearing hats from 3 different states, I dismiss them. What they have to say has less meaning to me as someone like a Kcmizzou or even Saul, because they root for the hometown team across the board. And even though I hate their teams, I respect them more as men of substance.

Sincerely,

DJay23
KU fan
Royals fan
Chiefs fan
Kansan
The Royals games are the worst. The Johnson County Red Sox Nation or the Lee's Summit Yankees contingent come out in FULL FORCE. I like striking up conversation with them. "Are you from New York?" "No..we just like the Yankees!"

Makes it that much sweeter than they lose. I feel blessed that I still live in close proximity to my favorite teams, I wouldn't trade that for anything, really.

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 11:07 AM
You mean the one that lost in round two of the NIT?
Start following college basketball during November-February so you can stop sounding like a dumbass. :)

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:13 AM
This is America, and everyone has the right to choose what team or teams they want to root for in whatever sport htey want to root for them in.

See, where I come from (Leavenworth, KS to be exact) my parents and family always taught me to be loyal to your roots. Be proud of where you're from, support your family and friends to the bitter end, and stick with each other in good times and in lean.

This is also how many of us were raised to love our sports teams. I had no decision in what team to root for. My dad took me to Chiefs games as a kid. My dad took me to Royals stadium. I remember pretending to be Danny Manning on the playground. We went to KU games in the fall. To that end, I don't follow the NBA or hockey, because as a kid there were no NBA or hockey teams in KC. Those sports were not a part of my world until I left the area and then I really never got into them.

It's about being a man. Sure, it's easy to cop out and root for a team half a continent away because they are good. But unless you or someone in your family went there, I see these people as having less than a spine. When I first started rooting for the Chiefs they SUCKED. And have continued to be mediocre to pretty good off an on since that time, but never would I ever consider jumping ship.

So when someone like Logical or GoChiefs comes around here wearing hats from 3 different states, I dismiss them. What they have to say has less meaning to me as someone like a Kcmizzou or even Saul, because they root for the hometown team across the board. And even though I hate their teams, I respect them more as men of substance.

Sincerely,

DJay23
KU fan
Royals fan
Chiefs fan
Kansan

I grew up and lived the first 20 years of my life in KC and most of the next 10 in Wichita. I have always loved UCLA and the Lakers in BB and hated KU and the Celtics, loved Notre Dame in football (I suppose it is that all little Catholic boys want to grow up and play for Notre Dame), but was a solid Royals fan until I grew to hate all major league baseball (now I want the Yankees or Red Sox to win to further damage MLB) and I am a life long Chiefs fan.

DJay23
04-03-2007, 11:16 AM
The Royals games are the worst. The Johnson County Red Sox Nation or the Lee's Summit Yankees contingent come out in FULL FORCE. I like striking up conversation with them. "Are you from New York?" "No..we just like the Yankees!"

Makes it that much sweeter than they lose. I feel blessed that I still live in close proximity to my favorite teams, I wouldn't trade that for anything, really.
You are blessed because you rooted for the local team.

DJay23
04-03-2007, 11:17 AM
I grew up and lived the first 20 years of my life in KC and most of the next 10 in Wichita. I have always loved UCLA and the Lakers in BB and hated KU and the Celtics, loved Notre Dame in football (I suppose it is that all little Catholic boys want to grow up and play for Notre Dame), but was a solid Royals fan until I grew to hate all major league baseball (now I want the Yankees or Red Sox to win to further damage MLB) and I am a life long Chiefs fan.
That's nice

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:18 AM
So Logical?

Why hasnt your beloved football team since before I was born won a championship since the 1960's?

I guess they are not elite huh?Hell no they are no longer elite, they have not been an elite team since 1972. Matter of fact they are mostly pathetic like the Cubs.

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:20 AM
That's niceYou wrote a novela, I thought I at least deserved a paragraph in response.:p

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:22 AM
Well being a Chiefs fan certainly opens you up to the same kind of scrutiny you insist on using for KU doesn't it.

Do you feel like a loser when the Chiefs underachieve?... No. Do you remain a fan anyway because they're your team? Do you believe each season just MAY be the one. Do you ever get really excited by a big win? Do you believe in the Chiefs history and tradition even though they've only won one Super Bowl?

Not so different from KU fans is it. You must be one of those asshole Chiefs fans.

Wrong yes I do, you don't know me very well, despite all my posting on the subject. The Chiefs under Carl are pathetic teams that desire nothing more than to fill the stands. But yes I live off their tradition I just don't delude myself into believing they are an elite team.

Cochise
04-03-2007, 11:22 AM
Who is going to read the 5,000 word articles? Why post them when a link would suffice? :shrug:

DJay23
04-03-2007, 11:23 AM
You wrote a novela, I thought I at least deserved a paragraph in response.:p
All I'm saying is that everyone has t heir reasons. Some reasons I respect more than others, but that's just one man's opinion and point of view.

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:26 AM
But, but, but, that's different, it's UCLA who has a tarnished image of cheating during the 60's and 70's until the NCAA decided to enforce the rules.

FTR Jim, go look up how many teams had recruiting or team violations before 1975 .......

It's a telling story on how they over looked alot of infractions by schools.....

I'll see if I can find it for you, OK. It was last year I read it, but if I can find it, maybe you will change your mind, BTA, being selective does have it's limitations. :rolleyes:

You know that is a good point, how the hell did KU manage to get itself put on probation in the 50s, 60s and 70s. they must have really worked at it.

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 11:28 AM
You know that is a good point, how the hell did KU manage to get itself put on probation in the 50s, 60s and 70s. they must have really worked at it.
50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and the oughts. I know in the 50's it was because they gave Wilt Chamberlain a 56 Olds Convertible.

DJay23
04-03-2007, 11:30 AM
50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and the oughts. I know in the 50's it was because they gave Wilt Chamberlain a 56 Olds Convertible.
Hey! He deserved that Convertible!

Cochise
04-03-2007, 11:33 AM
50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and the oughts. I know in the 50's it was because they gave Wilt Chamberlain a 56 Olds Convertible.

What was the story about Harold Miner in the 80s? Was he the one who just kept "finding" envelopes full of cash in his mailbox?

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 11:37 AM
Wrong yes I do, you don't know me very well, despite all my posting on the subject. The Chiefs under Carl are pathetic teams that desire nothing more than to fill the stands. But yes I live off their tradition I just don't delude myself into believing they are an elite team.
No team winning or losing should make YOU feel bad. It's a sport. You have no control. Suffer with them through losses, feel the dissapointment, but don't let it make you feel like a loser. It has nothing to do with you.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 11:41 AM
You know that is a good point, how the hell did KU manage to get itself put on probation in the 50s, 60s and 70s. they must have really worked at it.


Unlike an UCLA fan, I can admit that KU has been caught, they wasn't as clever as UCLA, damn you guys are soooo smart. Oh, my mom is calling,Here, let me put it on speaker...........

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:42 AM
50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and the oughts. I know in the 50's it was because they gave Wilt Chamberlain a 56 Olds Convertible.

Damn they gave the most dominant player to ever don a BB jersey in any era a Caddy and did not even get a National Championship out of it, they must really be pathetic.:pROFL

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-03-2007, 11:43 AM
Start following college basketball during November-February so you can stop sounding like a dumbass. :)
I follow KU all season. The only other teams that matter are the ones they're playing and even then they only matter during the game. Sure, I'm aware of other good teams/players. I even pulled for K-State from a distance once I noticed they weren't sucking as bad as usual. I was glad to see them get better. It makes Kansas as a whole look a bit more respectable if the Cats stop being such a non entity. But I couldn't care less about who they're recruiting.

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 11:44 AM
Damn they gave the most dominant player to ever don a BB jersey in any era a Caddy and did not even get a National Championship out of it, they must really be pathetic.:pROFL

Oh, it must have been the refs in the NC game that got 2 caddys from Carolina, I get so confused, it was a long time ago.........
:rolleyes:

Cochise
04-03-2007, 11:51 AM
I can't really make myself care about recruiting either. I don't have the desire to scour websites in the offseason reading about how good some high school player is supposed to be. When they show up on the field/court I'll learn if they are any good or not.

It's sort of like NFL fans who are obsessed with the draft. Why?

Logical
04-03-2007, 11:56 AM
Oh, it must have been the refs in the NC game that got 2 caddys from Carolina, I get so confused, it was a long time ago.........
:rolleyes:Typical KU fan making excuses 50 years later. Consistency KU fans best friend.

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 12:06 PM
Typical KU fan making excuses 50 years later. Consistency KU fans best friend.


Why are you so enamored with KU? Seriously? UCLA is a half a continent away and I could careless if the play basketball or not...

So why all the attention towards KU? Do you not have any UCLA fans you can pal around with? Do you wish your team was in the Big 12? You sure show alot of attention to us... It is sad in a pathetic kind of way...

Are the UCLA boards shutdown or something? Do they even have message boards?

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 12:14 PM
Here Jim, read this about the NCAA not going after UCLA when they knew of the violations.......

Very Long read, stay with it, that is unless you still want to be selective, then you can go into denial and ignore it...... Here is the proof for your pudding........

http://books.google.com/books?id=1Azyc2LopD0C&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=sam+gilbert+ucla&source=web&ots=YsPovfZGf6&sig=MGAGf2ys-bnOVJCGM44Py6Z1pKU#PPA48,M1

ROYC75
04-03-2007, 12:16 PM
Typical KU fan making excuses 50 years later. Consistency KU fans best friend.

Whatever, it was for humor, just humor man.. Again, I do not hide that KU was guilty of their violations, I hate it that they happened.

Saulbadguy
04-03-2007, 12:30 PM
I can't really make myself care about recruiting either. I don't have the desire to scour websites in the offseason reading about how good some high school player is supposed to be. When they show up on the field/court I'll learn if they are any good or not.

It's sort of like NFL fans who are obsessed with the draft. Why?
Because it's fun.

Ceej
04-03-2007, 12:38 PM
So, if Florida is actually an "elite" team how will they look next year? Because we all know elite teams reload and don't rebuild.

I'm assuming all of their starters go pro, excluding Humphrey who is graduating. That leaves them with who? Hodge? Richards? Calathes?

Very eilte.

I cannot discredit the Gators though, they've been a very superb and far more superior school then KU has been recently.

duncan_idaho
04-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Florida has a really nice recruiting class coming in... two five stars, two four stars. They're going to be a little thin up front, but the Gators HAVE reloaded. Oh, and they're still in on Patrick Patterson and probably are the leader if Donovan stays put.

Ceej
04-03-2007, 01:07 PM
We'll see if these guys coming in can continue to carry the torch.

Pitt Gorilla
04-03-2007, 01:10 PM
Sure, and if Bronco fans hammer on the Chiefs, nobody mentions the Broncos, right?I didn't realize that a) Baby Lee is an MU fan and b)he was "hammering" KU.

Brock
04-03-2007, 01:14 PM
I didn't realize that a) Baby Lee is an MU fan and b)he was "hammering" KU.

And?

HolmeZz
04-03-2007, 01:15 PM
Scoreboard baby

11 NCs most recent 95.
13 finals appearences most recent 2006
16 final four appearances most recent 2007
85 tournament game victories
39 Tournament appearances

1 Championship in the last 32 years. :p

That's Chief-like.

Tactical Funky
04-03-2007, 02:27 PM
yeah it was just a matter of time, before he came here thumping himself all over....

But he is cool and not annoying like some others...

I usually respect his posts...
Saul is actually one of the few KSU posters that I like, too...

He tho thexy! :drool:

:)

Spott
04-03-2007, 02:50 PM
UF may not have a lengthy basketball history, but now that they are at the top, it should be fairly easily for them to stay among the elite. Their football program generates a heck of a lot more revenue than schools like Duke, Kentucky, NC and KU. UF can use some of that revenue to maintain their basketball program at an "elite" status. Not to mention it is already much easier to recruit kids to Florida just because of where they are located. I love the midwest, but it's not a hard sell to get a kid to spend his winters in Gainesville instead of a cold weather city.

Skip Towne
04-03-2007, 04:20 PM
All time wins: 1. Kentucky - 1948, 2. NC - 1914, 3. KU - 1906. sUCkLA - not listed in the top 10. Jim's alma mater, MU - well do you really want to go there?

KCChiefsMan
04-03-2007, 04:22 PM
I don't think we'll ever win a championship as long as Self is our coach

Stewie
04-03-2007, 04:24 PM
KU sure is fast losing its elite status

I'm sure there's a sentence in there somewhere. It must be a UCLA thing.

Skip Towne
04-03-2007, 08:43 PM
I got in on this thread late so I didn't read it all. But I did see where you used the argument that you were a fan "before you were born". Well, if that is an effective argument, I was a KU fan before YOU were born, sonny boy. 1952. I was 7 years old. Hahahahahahaha

Reerun_KC
04-03-2007, 08:51 PM
I don't think we'll ever win a championship as long as Self is our coach

I do...