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ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 07:14 AM
I just heard on ESPN that Quin Snyder will interview with South Carolina. He and the A.D. went to Duke. Would he really leave?

That would suck for MU.

MrBlond
03-20-2001, 08:23 AM
I am madly searching for confirmation. Anyone have a link?

spe725
03-20-2001, 10:18 AM
I don't know what type of confirmation you're looking for, but Andy Katz daily column on espn.com had this (I think it is where the ESPNews story originated from):

South Carolina targeting Missouri's Snyder
Monday, March 19:
Sources have told ESPN.com that South Carolina has made Missouri coach Quin Snyder its top target. According to the sources, Snyder will listen to South Carolina but is torn as to what to do. Snyder's wife is from nearby Charlotte, N.C., and South Carolina athletic director Mike McGee, like Snyder, is a Duke alumnus. McGee is apparently applying tremendous pressure on Duke to get Snyder to consider the Gamecocks. South Carolina coach Eddie Fogler resigned last week after the school refused to give him an extension beyond the remaining three years on his contract. Snyder is happy at Missouri and has repeated that this season. The Tigers reached the NCAA Tournament's second round and have the core of their team returning, including leading scorers Kareem Rush and Clarence Gilbert. But the deciding factor could be Snyder's commitment to his players and to the fact Missouri is a better basketball job than South Carolina.

MrBlond
03-20-2001, 11:23 AM
spe,

Thank you. I know it is not going to happen but after all the years of hearing Roy to NC rumors from my MU friends I will love to scare them with this!!

Spott
03-20-2001, 11:49 AM
I doubt Snyder would leave Mizzou to go to a school like S.C. that doesn't have much of a basketball tradition.

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 12:06 PM
He wouldn't leave for a school without any basketball tradition? I hate to break it to you, but Missouri doesn't have much tradition of it's own with 0 titles and 0 final fours, EVER. You Missouri fans are a f***ing joke, watch as I back up my argument with facts while MU fans come back with totally assinine opinions.

You guys can save these because I've heard them all before:

"Ya so what if KU has more tradition, Missouri will be a national powerhouse next year"

"With Kareem Rush coming back MU will be in the Final Four next year"

"Missouri will dominate the Big 12 next year with their top 10 recruiting class"

Sorry MU fans, just because you say it doesn't mean it's going to come true, so keep dreaming.

Pitt Gorilla
03-20-2001, 01:41 PM
As a relatively new "Missouri" fan, I take exception to this rather idiotic blanket statement. It's true that there are a lot of ignorant Missouri fans that spout off at the even larger horde of ignorant KU fans. However, I believe that these fans, like yourself, represent the minority. Most Missouri and KU fans are well educated people with at least four year degrees. I have a lot of good, close friends working on their graduate degrees at both MU and KU. Actually, when I was being recruited to attend both to work on a Phd., the MU folk produced statistics showing Columbia as having one of the largest percentages of four year degree dwellers per capita. Why do I point these items out? First of all, MU fans are indeed not a joke, both literally and statistically. Also, most KU fans have a little more sense than to imply that they are. Finally, anyone considering an opinion as "asinine" should try to back up THAT argument with facts. Or, is that just another "asinine" opinion?

BTW, I posted before the Duke game that I didn't know if I really wanted MU to win because of the Quinn leaving factor. I had no idea that losing could produce the same result!?!?!

[Edited by Pitt Gorilla on 03-20-2001 at 01:55 PM]

cjderby
03-20-2001, 01:48 PM
Chiefsfan, do you consider our Chiefs to have a strong tradition? I do, and if you do, you're basing that on regular season success, because it certainly hasn't been built in the post-season.

Along that same line of thinking, Mizzou basketball has had great success and has built a fine tradition. Maybe it isn't as strong as KU's, but it is there. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm sure Mizzou is second only to KU in regular season conf. titles over the last 20-25 years, and post-season conf. titles, too. Mizzou may even be ahead on that one, we used to own the Big 8 tourney. I can't recall South Carolina ever winning an SEC championship of any sort, certainly not several.

And as far as KU's tradition goes, that's built mostly around the inventors/legends of the game, stuff from 40-50 yrs ago. There is nothing in the modern era tourney history that sets KU apart from several other schools that have one title to their name. That's not a shot, that's just the way it is, IMO....

Spott
03-20-2001, 02:22 PM
18 NCAA appearances in the last 29 years is success. Whether you want to believe it or not. How many times has KC been to the playoffs in the last 29 years? 8... No where in this topic is anyone saying that MU is a final four team and that we're going to dominate the Big 12 next year. The fact that you're so incensed at the idea of Snyder staying just proves that you think that some of those statements in your post just might be true, Chiefsfan.

ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 02:26 PM
cjderby, you said:

"And as far as KU's tradition goes, that's built mostly around the inventors/legends of the game, stuff from 40-50 yrs ago. There is nothing in the modern era tourney history that sets KU apart from several other schools that have one title to their name. That's not a shot, that's just the way it is, IMO...."

Dumba$$. KU has been to 10 Final Fours, and won 2 National Championship. Those FACTS are not based on stuff from 40-50 years ago. Most recently KU has been to the Final Four in 1986, 1988, 1991 and 1993. Those trips produced one of the championships, and are OBVIOUSLY not from 40-50 years ago.

ExtremeChief
03-20-2001, 02:39 PM
Let me start by saying I am a MU fan. (Although I don't know if I am a fu***** MU fan). The main problem with this whole arguement is the definition of "tradition". IMHO both teams have strong basketball traditions. While MU doesn't have the final fours or national championships that KU does, I do think that they are known for having "strong" basketball teams year in and year out. They also have the tradition of not being able to win the "big one". I think Quin Snyder is a step in the right direction to achieve this goal. Whether they do it next year, or ten years from now I could not say, but I certainly do think they will be in the mix next year. Hopefully he stays. KU looked very impressive last weekend, and Roy sure seems to know how to get the most out of his players. I'm glad to see you broke the "tradition" of losing in the second round.

continuing the MU/KU rivalry "tradition"

Spott
03-20-2001, 02:42 PM
South Carolina has 7 NCAA appearances ever, the last was in 1998. Their overall record is 4-8. 2 of their wins and 1 of their losses came in consolation games between 71-73. They have never advanced past the second round of the NCAA tournament.

MrBlond
03-20-2001, 02:45 PM
Who cares as long as KU keeps beating mu in football?

MrBlond
03-20-2001, 02:49 PM
mu's storied basketball tradition is closer to SCUs than it is to KUs.

PS. anything good on TV this weekend?...Oh year, the JAYHAWKS!!!

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 02:51 PM
KU won it's last title in 1988, and played in the championship game in 91, that's not quite 40-50 years. Also since 1990 KU has more wins than any other program. I know a lot of the stuff I said wasn't posted in this thread, but everytime there's an argument over ku and missouri it ends up the same. KU fans talk about how good KU is now and has been in the past while Missouri fans talk about how they "will be" greatness, someday, someplace in the near future. It's probably true that Missouri does have more tradition than South Carolina, but it's not by alot like the guy who posted was trying to make it sound.

I don't know what the Chiefs have to do with this argument either, but at least they've won a championship in their sport which is more than Missouri can say.

cjderby
03-20-2001, 02:52 PM
ChiefsFanatic, 4 of those Final Fours appearances, including one of the Championships, are from 1957 or earlier. 2001 minus 1957 = 44 years. Unless I'm mistaken, that falls in the "40-50 yrs ago" range. The "origin of the game" flag KU likes to wrap themselves in dates further back than that.

That leaves 6 Final Four appearances, with 1 Championship, in the last 43 yrs. Plenty to be proud of, but not awe inspiring.

Those are the FACTS. Apology accepted...

Spott
03-20-2001, 02:53 PM
cjderby

MU has 8 Big Eight regular season titles & 6 Big Eight tournament titles in the past 25 years. Before that, they had 3 Big Six(before the Big 8) conference titles & 4 Missouri Valley Conference titles.

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 02:56 PM
cjderby, well it's a lot better than 0 final fours and 0 championships in the last 100 years of basketball, now isn't it?

cjderby
03-20-2001, 03:00 PM
Chiefsfan, I brought up the Chiefs because you claimed Mizzou has no tradition to speak of. The only way to make that argument is to focus only on post-season results, which the same argument would then mean the Chiefs have no tradition to be proud of. And I bet you don't agree with that, that's all....

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 03:03 PM
cjderby, the chiefs were one of the winningest teams of the 90's as well, Missouri was not even close. Also Missouri has missed the postseason just as many times as the Chiefs have lately.

Pitt Gorilla
03-20-2001, 03:08 PM
You don't get it, do you chiefsfan? "but everytime there's an argument over ku and missouri it ends up the same." I thought you backed up your facts. Let me refer you back to your post at 12:06 PM. This sounds a lot like a "come back" opinion. Please reread my original response.

cjderby
03-20-2001, 03:09 PM
Jeez, you guys sure are sensitive on this. Nowhere did I try to say Mizzou's bball tradition compared to KU's, in fact, I admitted it didn't. All I did was counter your "asinine" opinion that Mizzou's tradition was a joke by making some comparisons to KU. I'm done with this topic!

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 03:26 PM
Here's your facts,

KU has 2 National Championships, 10 Final Four appearances, 30 NCAA Tournament Appearance, 61 Tournament wins, is the winningest team of the 90's, the 3rd winningest program of all time, has a record of 150-87 over Missouri, 15 Big 12/8 regular season titles, and was coached by James Naismith, Phog Allen, Larry Brown, and Roy Williams.

Missouri has 0 final four, 0 titles, 8 big 12/8 regular season titles, and Norm Stewart, congratulations, that's what I call tradition.

AJKCFAN
03-20-2001, 03:44 PM
I just listened in to the Snyder-South Carolina phone call. Here's how it went:

South Carolina University:

"Hello. Coach Snyder. This is South Carolina University. We'd like to know..... (click) Hello? Hello? Coach Snyder?"

South Carolina should set their sights a wee bit lower than the mighty Q. I'm not saying Quinn will lay roots here and stay at Mizzou for 30 years a la Norm Stewart because he won't... but there's NO WAY Quinn Snyder is leaving the Mizzou program two years in... especially when this team has "Sweet Sixteen & Beyond written all over it"...

AJKCFAN
03-20-2001, 03:48 PM
Kansas had a 50+ year head start on tradition. You can't bring up a 150-87 head to head mark. Why not go back 20 years (1981-2000) and tell the gang what Kansas-Missouri head to head has been like (Including Conference Tournament play). I sure would like to know those results. I'll go so far as to say that Mizzou has a better head-to-head mark over Kansas over the past 20 years.

I mean, K-State football sucks compared to Nebraska, but over the last 5 years, there's not much of a difference.

ChiTown
03-20-2001, 03:48 PM
chiefsfan

Congrats for being a fan of one of the best college basketball traditions. But, quite frankly, who gives a sh!t about what you think tradition means. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. I'm no Mizzou alum, but I can tell you that they have some of the best fans in college sports, and they have certainly supported their team through both good and bad.

I'm always amazed that people such as yourself have such a hard time with your ego, such that you can't just be proud of your teams accomplishments without bagging on others.

ChiTown
~'89 grad of KSU

[Edited by ChiTown on 03-20-2001 at 03:51 PM]

MrBlond
03-20-2001, 04:09 PM
mu has no tradition. KU has won a National Title in my lifetime. mu has been in what? 1 sweet sixteen? ever? KU has a winning record against mu lifetime 150 to 87. We have won more Big 6 championships, Big 7 championships, big 8 championships, and Big 12 championships. More sweet sixteen appearences, elite 8 appearences, final four appearences, championship appearences, and championship wins. We have more conference tourney championships. More All-Americans, more NBA 1st round draft choices, more college Hall of Famers, NBA Hall of Famers. We have better songs, uniforms, cheerleaders, coaches, colors, arena, fans, campus, alumni, mascots, and hairstyles. By this time next week we may be in another final four while the Mighty Quin furiously recruits in an effort to catch up. Rock Chalk Jayhawk KU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 04:12 PM
I think MU has great fans. Some of the best entertainment arguing I have evr had has been with MU fans. But with smart, intelligent fans that know sports, not fans can't recognize that KU has traditionally been better than MU in basketball.

Even without a Championship in the 90s, they are still one of the premier college basketball programs in the country. MU could have been a power sooner, but Norm was not the best recruiter, and MU was loyal to him (and for good reason.)

Anyone who thinks that Snyder won't even listen to S. Carolina has their head in the sand. He is too smart to burn bridges and lock doors so early in his coaching career. Who knows, S. Carolina's AD may someday be the AD at Duke. He did attend Duke. Why would Quin not give him the courtesy of at least entertaining his offers?

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 04:34 PM
chitown, I didn't start this thread, I was replying to what the MU fans have been saying(and not just what they've said in this thread or even this board for that matter). Most of the time it's Missouri fans that start bagging on KU, haven't you noticed that they always seem to post something after KU loses, and are no where to be found when they win?

To ajkcfan, sorry but you're wrong, KU leads the series 24-20 in games played since 1981. Actually it's in the 80's where Missouri does it's best against KU, but that was 10 years ago so I guess we can't count that huh?

If you want to talk about the last 10 years then, KU has been to 12 straight tournaments, 2 final fours, and 7 sweet sixteens. MU has made the tournament 3 years in a row, has no final fours obviously, and has maybe 1 or 2 sweet 16's(sorry I don't know MU's entire history), so I don't think that's anywhere near to the Kstate-Nebraska rivalry in football like you were trying to say.

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 04:37 PM
I think Mr. Blond's post pretty much sums it up.

ExtremeChief
03-20-2001, 04:49 PM
By your definition of "tradition" only Kansas, UCLA, UNC, and Duke would have tradition. I don't think any MU fan in here is saying that MU has a stronger tradition than KU. Kansas has had one of the strongest basketball programs in the nation for some time now. So by your definition, KU is the only team in the Big12 that has tradition. Congrats. I'll stick with my untraditional Tigers, congratulate you when KU wins, but expect the same in return when the Tigers beat you at their house.

with untraditional Tiger Pride...

ChiTown
03-20-2001, 04:51 PM
ROTFLMFAO @ MrBlond. Only someone from KU could come up with that drivel. Congrats on a great tradition. I really enjoy KU Bball, but for Christs sake, stop beating your chest like an OU football fan. They toss the same chit to everyone else concerning National Championships and Tradition. It's boooooooooring. There won't be any non-KU fan's stooping to kiss the Ring, so gitoveritalready.

Good luck against the Illini. It should be a battle.

Chi

chiefsfan
03-20-2001, 04:56 PM
extremechief, you forgot Kentucky and Indiana, but other than that I'm glad we all can agree on something.

ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 05:22 PM
I remember when KU and MU swithched the number 1 and 2 ranking a few years agao. That was one of my favorite times as far as being a basketball fan goes. Even though MU beat us both times, I can still look back and think on it fondly.

I like MU. I do not like the Raiders. If MU is not playing KU, I pull for them to win.

I started this thread because I thought a lot of MU fans would want to know about Snyder possibly interviewing for S. Carolina job. As a KU fan, if Quin left, I would like it because he can flat out recruit (the jury is still out on his coaching ability)and we have already lost recruits to him. On the other hand, it would make the Big 12 look bad, and bring down the level of competition, therefore, reducing the value of KU wins at tourney time.

Also, as a little justice, I revel in any rumors that have Snyder leaving MU. I have lived with the 'Roy to N. Carolina' for too many years now, and now that that talk is over, it is my turn to watch MU fans grip about losing their coach.

Pitt Gorilla
03-20-2001, 05:28 PM
Blond, you're kidding about the campus, right?

ExtremeChief
03-20-2001, 05:29 PM
Fanatic:

I appreciate the heads up on the SC story. I hope that Quin stays with the Tigers. While I have utmost respect for the things Norm Stewart did while at MU, it did seem his teams underachieved in the NCAA tourney. When MU went in as a #1 seed and lost to Arizona in the elite eight I really thought that team had a chance to go all the way.

I think Snyder will be a much better recruiter than NS was, and hopefully some of that Duke experience will rub off in the coming years and get this team over the hump.

thanks again for the heads up...

MrBlond
03-20-2001, 06:14 PM
Gorilla,

I was serious about the campus but I was kidding about the cheerleaders.

I am a Jayhawk homer. The best thing I can say about mu is that I hate them. I couldnt care less about k-state, neb, col., etc.

AJKCFAN
03-20-2001, 08:14 PM
chiefsfan:

You got me. At the risk of offending fellow Jayhawkers, I beg to differ. llow the facts to be presented.

As great as KU's tradition has been, there is NOT another school which comes close to their tradition of choking. With the talent they've had at Lawrence, it's a crime... make that a sin to not have won a National Title.

Let's go over the chokes for a moment, k?

1992: Kansas # 1 seed. Lost to UTEP (UTEP???) in the 2nd Round. # 9 seed is what the Miners were that year.

1995: Kansas # 1 seed. Sweet Sixteens at Kemper, no less!!! Lost to Virginia in the Sweet 16. Virginia was a # 5 seed that year. You can post about Kansas and their Sweet 16 stats all you want... but definitely here the Final Four was there for the taking. You basically had Home Court!!

1996: Kansas # 2 seed (technically the # 1 seed, because Purdue was the most god-awful # 1 seed ever in 1996). Elite Eight. Lost to Syracuse. Syracuse was a # 4 seed.

1997: Kansas # 1 seed. Make that # 1 team in America. That 1997 Kansas team was not just good... they were incredible. Possibly the best Kansas squad ever assembled. Sweet 16 and here comes Arizona. and down goes Kansas. Arizona, # 4 seed.

1998: Kansas # 1 seed. On a mission to redeem themselves from the nightmare of 1997. 2nd Round TKO at the hands of Rhode Island. That being the # 8 seed Rams from Rhode Island.

To recap, 4 # 1 seeds wasted away... and in none of those four cases did the jayhawks even reach the Elite Eight.

The # 2 seed in 1996 wasted too (also lost in the 2nd round as a # 2 seed in 1990 to UCLA) with a Final Four at stake.

You get bragging rights because you played who so far? Mizzou went up against Duke. Against a lesser opponent (see Syracuse for instance), Mizzou would still be around.

Maybe in your eyes a 24-20 advantage over the past 20 years means "dominance", but I see it as pretty much balanced. I DO give KU the advantage as being the better basketball program (I'd be lying if I was to say otherwsie), but as tradition rich as KU is, they ARE behind Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, UCLA, and possibly Indiana as being the best, most tradition-rich programs around.

AJKCFAN
03-20-2001, 08:32 PM
I should just clarify my message by stating that it is a crime, make that a sin for KU not to have won a National Title SINCE 1988.

Also, the word on the top line should have read Allow, not llow...

ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 08:33 PM
Adam,

You are completely correct. KU has wasted too many number one seeds. If the team in 1997 would have won the Championship, they would be considered one of the greatest teams ever, much like the UNLV or Duke teams of the early 90's.

However, lamenting that MU had to play Duke and KU got Syracuse is weak. That is why teams play a regular season. If MU had done better, and not been one of the last at large teams to get in, they would have had a better seed. That way, if they played Duke, it would have at least been in the Sweet 16.

But I will agree with you again: KU always stumbles when they have the upper hand. However, history has also shown that when the have been good, not great (i.e. 1991, 1993, 1996) they perform the best in the tournament under Williams. On those runs KU made plenty of their own upsets: in 1991 they beat Indiana, Arkansas and North Carolina to reach the Championship game. In 1993 they beat Indiana to get to the final four. And even though they were a 3 in 1991 and 2 in 1993 and 1996, in those games I mentioned there was great sentiment that they would lose.

And I still say that Ku can beat Illinois, and I actually think they WILL beat them. And I will be pullin' for Ole Miss something fierce.

ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 08:39 PM
KU's tourney history
http://espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney01/history/2305.html
MU's tourney history
http://espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney01/history/142.html

AJKCFAN
03-20-2001, 08:41 PM
ChiefsFanatic:

Long time, no hear. Hope you have been following along the other storyline going on... ;)

That was my weakest point about my argument, I'll admit it. Only defending Mizzou here. They had an outstanding tournament and KU certainly has as well (possibly the most impressive of the teams remaining). Still, one can't get giddy over wins over Cal-State Northridge and Syracuse. It's about to get tougher. Way tougher. The Illini' are for real... KU only has a chance if they bring their A+ game to San Antonio, for Illinois is going to bring their A game.

Just looking to show that Mizzou has more than held its own against KU over the years. Whereas other teams fear the Jayhawks, there's not that feeling amongst the Tigers when they go to war with KU.

Have a feeling next year will be a return to the old-time heavyweight slugfests KU-Mizzou was once accustomed to. It should be fun!

sun
03-20-2001, 09:15 PM
no way ku has better chearleaders than mu, has anyone actually looked lately, no contest.....mizzou wins hands down

and by the way, Mizzou will always have General
Quantrill on its side......that trumps everything

TheBigChief
03-20-2001, 09:26 PM
Syracuse may be a lesser team according to all the MU fans but the Hawks did put up a 29 point butt whipping on them.

ChiefsFanatic
03-20-2001, 09:45 PM
Sun,

you are so correct. Just about any cheerleading squad is better looking than the KU cheerleaders. I am no expert on cheerleading, but from what I have seen, they are not even very good at that. I watched them try to coordinate a throw until they finally had to sit back down because they could not figure out who was throwing who.

Adam,

Will Illinois bring their A game like Iowa State? Like Oklahoma? Like North Carolina? Every team is capable of leaving their game on the bus. But I will grant you that KU has more experience than most teams at showing up without their jocks.

Go KU. Go Ole Miss.

ChiefsFanatic
03-21-2001, 08:26 AM
so........................

milkman
03-21-2001, 09:51 AM
You know, I don't get much chance to see a lot of Big 8+4 BB living out here on the west coast.
I have been a KU fan mst of my life, and would like to see Roy Williams pull his head out and win something, a championship, a trip to the final 4, something!
How does this relate to Snyder and MU, you ask?
Well, Roy could pull his head out, and if Snyder were to stick around MU for a few years, and continue to improve Mizzou the way he has, then KU/MU could become the same type of draw for the Big 8+4 that NC/Duke is for the ACC.
With the exception of KU and KU (that's Kansas and Kentucky), whose tradition is steeped in the fledgling years of BB as a sport, most of the elite programs became 'elite' because they hired a HC that stayed with and built their program for years.
Wooden and UCLA, Smith and NC, Knight and Indiana, K and Duke, to name some.
If Mizzou can find a way to keep Snyder, he might be able to do the same for that program.
Who remembers anything about Arizona before Lute Olson?

Rooting for the Big 8+4!