ROFL: Bush seeks to outsource his Commander-in-Chief duties...

[jAZ]

Sadly, The Onion had the story over a year ago...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41444

In response to increasing criticism of his handling of the war in Iraq and the disaster in the Gulf Coast, as well as other issues, such as Social Security reform, the national deficit, and rising gas prices, President Bush is expected to appoint someone to run the U.S. as soon as Friday.

Here's the real one... not much different it seems.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/10/AR2007041001776_pf.html

The White House wants to appoint a high-powered czar to oversee the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with authority to issue directions to the Pentagon, the State Department and other agencies, but it has had trouble finding anyone able and willing to take the job, according to people close to the situation.

At least three retired four-star generals approached by the White House in recent weeks have declined to be considered for the position, the sources said, underscoring the administration's difficulty in enlisting its top recruits to join the team after five years of warfare that have taxed the United States and its military.

[Mr. Kotter]

Mildly amusing, I suppose. Not up to their usual standard though, IMO.... :shrug:

[penchief]

This is what one of the generals that they asked had to say about it.


The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," said retired Marine Gen. John J. "Jack" Sheehan, a former top NATO commander who was among those rejecting the job. Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. "So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, 'No, thanks,' " he said.


Looks like it's possible that the surge is just another con job.

Seriously, though. A War Czar? Good grief.

[patteeu]

Seriously, though. A War Czar? Good grief.

I'm sure the democrats will find a way to try to grow this concept into another Department level cabinet position like they did with the Homeland security czar. Good grief.

[Amnorix]

At least three retired four-star generals approached by the White House in recent weeks have declined to be considered for the position, the sources said, underscoring the administration's difficulty in enlisting its top recruits to join the team after five years of warfare that have taxed the United States and its military.

No surprise. That's a no win position right there. Actually, the title for that position should be "Official Fall Guy".

[Amnorix]

The very fundamental issue is, they don't know where the hell they're going," said retired Marine Gen. John J. "Jack" Sheehan, a former top NATO commander who was among those rejecting the job. Sheehan said he believes that Vice President Cheney and his hawkish allies remain more powerful within the administration than pragmatists looking for a way out of Iraq. "So rather than go over there, develop an ulcer and eventually leave, I said, 'No, thanks,' " he said.

The real question is - why does four star marine Jack Sheehan hate our country?

[Amnorix]

I'm sure the democrats will find a way to try to grow this concept into another Department level cabinet position like they did with the Homeland security czar. Good grief.


Regrettably, while it would be terrific to take as much responsibiity as possible away from Bozo the Clown, errr, I mean President Bush and his cohorts. in the long run this might crimp, you know, a President who doesn't suck.

[Amnorix]

Heck, now that I think about it, why bother to pretend about any of this anymore. I know who to hire -- figure the job is worth a billion a year or so, plus expenses of course.


http://www.wallst.net/news/reuters/images/2006-07-12T082204Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_3_BUSINESS-ARMS-HALLIBURTON-IRAQ-DC.jpg

[penchief]

The real question is - why does four star marine Jack Sheehan hate our country?

I thought of that, too. But I opted for "War Czar, WTF?!"

[penchief]

Heck, now that I think about it, why bother to pretend about any of this anymore. I know who to hire -- figure the job is worth a billion a year or so, plus expenses of course.


http://www.wallst.net/news/reuters/images/2006-07-12T082204Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_3_BUSINESS-ARMS-HALLIBURTON-IRAQ-DC.jpg

It could be just like Bush's search for a vice presidential candidate. It'll save us a lot of time if we just name Cheney War Czar. Might as well give him the official title, too.

[Amnorix]

I thought of that, too. But I opted for "War Czar, WTF?!"


I'm sure the right is beyond tired of our making comments like mine, but I was VERY tired indeed of the right questioning the patriotism of those on the left when we questioned the motives and likelihood of success of this war, and those who brought us into it.

It's one thing to say you're wrong or confused, and another entirely to suggest that your statements are basically traitorous. It was just absurd.

[jAZ]

I'm sure the right is beyond tired of our making comments like mine, but I was VERY tired indeed of the right questioning the patriotism of those on the left when we questioned the motives and likelihood of success of this war, and those who brought us into it.

It's one thing to say you're wrong or confused, and another entirely to suggest that your statements are basically traitorous. It was just absurd.
It hasn't stopped (see the Pelosi nonsense)... It's just that we only hear it from the fringe 30%. Amazing how much influence the echo chamber of that fringe 30% can have on that liberal media that hates America.

[StcChief]

It hasn't stopped (see the Pelosi nonsense)... It's just that we only hear it from the fringe 30%. Amazing how much influence the echo chamber of that fringe 30% can have on that liberal media that hates America.

Are you really this naive? or is this a bait question.

They seem to be for some time 'bed buddies' and play off each others moves? The media really doesn't take into account much of the conservative or 'non-news' positions. This DOESNT SELL.

Controversy, blood, violence, screaming and yelling sell.

Why? Look at what sells in cinema.

[tiptap]

Well no wonder the Bush administration went to war. They knew that blood and guts would 'sail' (sale) them into the future and secure the right's ownership of government for years. . . . . . They just couldn't control the script surprise.

[Logical]

It could be just like Bush's search for a vice presidential candidate. It'll save us a lot of time if we just name Cheney War Czar. Might as well give him the official title, too.

LOL about this whole mess, what the f*ck is the Sec Def for, now we need to add a War Czar?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[patteeu]

LOL about this whole mess, what the f*ck is the Sec Def for, now we need to add a War Czar?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The article explains that they are looking for someone who would coordinate activities across departments, especially DoD and the State dept. Gates can't direct Condi Rice. Heh, I'm here to read the articles so you won't have to. :p

[Logical]

The article explains that they are looking for someone who would coordinate activities across departments, especially DoD and the State dept. Gates can't direct Condi Rice. Heh, I'm here to read the articles so you won't have to. :p

Bush should tell Condi to shut the **** up it is the Sec Def's responsibility and that is that.

Still stupid, stupid, stupid.

[penchief]

The article explains that they are looking for someone who would coordinate activities across departments, especially DoD and the State dept. Gates can't direct Condi Rice. Heh, I'm here to read the articles so you won't have to. :p

Admit it, patteeu. It's grasping for straws. And it's probably just another diversion.

[Mr. Kotter]

Admit it, patteeu. It's grasping for straws. And it's probably just another diversion.

Damn, patteeu....they've figured out the plan. Now we can't detonate simultaneous nukes on the east and west coast, leaving us with real Americans.

Drat.

[penchief]

Damn, patteeu....they've figured out the plan. Now we can't detonate simultaneous nukes on the east and west coast, leaving us with real Americans.

Drat.

"Oh look! None of that other stuff worked but now we hired a War Czar. He's gonna explain why the surge isn't working yet. Give us another 6 months to let the Czar do his thing. It would be unpatriotic not to. How can you not support the troops?"

[penchief]

"Oh look! None of that other stuff worked but now we hired a War Czar. He's gonna explain why the surge isn't working yet. Give us another 6 months to let the Czar do his thing. It would be unpatriotic not to. How can you not support the troops?"

"Oh! And where's that $80 billiion? dammit!"

[patteeu]

"Oh look! None of that other stuff worked but now we hired a War Czar. He's gonna explain why the surge isn't working yet. Give us another 6 months to let the Czar do his thing. It would be unpatriotic not to. How can you not support the troops?"

I think it's funny that after years of complaints about "stay the course" that's all you guys want to do these days.

[penchief]

I think it's funny that after years of complaints about "stay the course" that's all you guys want to do these days.

I have no clue what you just said.

[Logical]

I have no clue what you just said. I think what he is saying is we are complaining about the administraion making changes.

[jAZ]

I think it's funny that after years of complaints about "stay the course" that's all you guys want to do these days.
If he doesn't want to be Commander In Chief anymore, he really should just quit.

It's a national embarassment that he was elected twice... it's even worse that he's outsourcing his constitutional responsibilities. Even you aren't trying to actually defend this.

[stevieray]

If he doesn't want to be Commander In Chief anymore, he really should just quit.

It's a national embarassment that he was elected twice... it's even worse that he's outsourcing his constitutional responsibilities. Even you aren't trying to actually defend this.

are you trying to say you feel embarassed?

[BucEyedPea]

Controversy, blood, violence, screaming and yelling sell.

Why? Look at what sells in cinema.

Hell, that sounds like Fox News these days!
I thought BO was gonna stab Geraldo with his pen.

[Amnorix]

The article explains that they are looking for someone who would coordinate activities across departments, especially DoD and the State dept. Gates can't direct Condi Rice. Heh, I'm here to read the articles so you won't have to. :p

So Cabinet officers need to report to someone OTHER than the President.

Odd -- the other 42 guys that held the office seemed to make it work ok. Oh right, this guy is a clown...

:banghead:

[penchief]

I think what he is saying is we are complaining about the administraion making changes.

But in the wrong direction. We don't want to stay the course even deeper. That's not a change. That's a twist.

[patteeu]

If he doesn't want to be Commander In Chief anymore, he really should just quit.

It's a national embarassment that he was elected twice... it's even worse that he's outsourcing his constitutional responsibilities. Even you aren't trying to actually defend this.

I didn't really think it needed to be defended. I assumed your thread title wasn't serious. Surely you aren't so far down the Bush-hate rabbit hole that you don't understand that the President has a staff and that, like any chief executive, he might see fit to reorganize from time to time.

[patteeu]

But in the wrong direction. We don't want to stay the course even deeper. That's not a change. That's a twist.

It would help if you'd just use the term cut-and-run and then there wouldn't be any confusion about what kind of change you want.

[penchief]

It would help if you'd just use the term cut-and-run and then there wouldn't be any confusion about what kind of change you want.

As long as you and our wonderful president continue to rely on tired slogans to defend his ill-conceived war and to smear those who speak out against it, there will be no confusion.

[StcChief]

Penchief Canada is calling.

[penchief]

Penchief Canada is calling.

I've already told you. I love my country too much to leave it to people like you and Bush. It's much nobler to do my patriotic duty and speak out against the neo-fascists in the White House.

Can your brain comprehend the difference between America and George Bush?

[Amnorix]

I didn't really think it needed to be defended. I assumed your thread title wasn't serious. Surely you aren't so far down the Bush-hate rabbit hole that you don't understand that the President has a staff and that, like any chief executive, he might see fit to reorganize from time to time.

My problem is that it appears that he wants to delegate one of his main roles -- direct supervision of Cabinet Level officers.

The tension between the DoD and Secretary of STate's office is as old as the republic. The fighting goes from the lowest levels all the way to the SecDef and SecState

The President must resolve the conflict to the degree it's brought to his attention. No President has ever even thought of putting another layer between the Cabinet officers and himself.

How is it that Lincoln could manage the Civil war, and FDR WWII, without doing this, but Bozo the Clown can't manage affairs under less difficult times.

And this guy sold the American people on his "management skills" and bringing a business attitude into the WH. :rolleyes:

[Amnorix]

Penchief Canada is calling.

Because in America, where the Founding Father's valued Freedom of Speech was so important they made it the FIRST Amendment to the Constitution, only brain-dead patriots who can't see past the flag they wave while cheering on the President should stay? The rest of us should just get the hell out.

Sorry, patriotism does not equal stupidity.


Ulysses S. Grant, on the Mexican-American War:

"generally the officers of the army were indifferent whether the annexation [of Texas] was consummated or not; but not so all of them. For myself, I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war [with Mexico] which resulted as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory."

[Amnorix]

Oh, and for the record, that anti-patriotic traitor, Abraham Lincoln, voted against the Mexican-American War, which resulted in him getting bounced out of Congress after just one term.

F**ker shoulda went to Canada...

[Amnorix]

Stephen Douglas, with regard to the vote of Abraham Lincoln against the Mexican-American War.

3. Excerpts from the Lincoln-Douglas debate at Ottawa, IL, 1858.

Douglas: "…In 1846, when Wilmot introduced his celebrated proviso, and the Abolition tornado swept over the country, Lincoln again turned up as a member of Congress from the Sangamon district. I was then in the Senate of the United States, and was glad to welcome my old friend and companion. Whilst in Congress, he distinguished himself by his opposition to the Mexican War, taking the side of the common enemy against his own country; and when he returned home he found that the indignation of the people followed him everywhere, and he was again submerged or obliged to retire into private life, forgotten by his former friends."

http://dig.lib.niu.edu/mexicanwar/lesson6-packet1.html


F**ker shoulda went to Canada...

[stevieray]

At least they were against it, instead of pretending to be for it until it suited their own personal and political agenda.

[Amnorix]

At least they were against it, instead of pretending to be for it until it suited their own personal and political agenda.

Or until they realized they'd been sold a false bill of goods.

[stevieray]

Or until they realized they'd been sold a false bill of goods.

please, they were campaigning the same slogans before and after Bush took office.

[BucEyedPea]

This country has a long history with war dissenters beginning with our War for Independence. Those opposed, Tories, went to Canada too.

And Lincoln was a considered a tyrant during the American Civil War, suspending habeaus corpus, suppressing free political speech, jailing congressmen who dissented and shooting and killing war protestors. Party of Lincoln's Newt Gringrich has praised Lincoln for some of these things too.

[patteeu]

My problem is that it appears that he wants to delegate one of his main roles -- direct supervision of Cabinet Level officers.

The tension between the DoD and Secretary of STate's office is as old as the republic. The fighting goes from the lowest levels all the way to the SecDef and SecState

The President must resolve the conflict to the degree it's brought to his attention. No President has ever even thought of putting another layer between the Cabinet officers and himself.

How is it that Lincoln could manage the Civil war, and FDR WWII, without doing this, but Bozo the Clown can't manage affairs under less difficult times.

And this guy sold the American people on his "management skills" and bringing a business attitude into the WH. :rolleyes:

I think you are exaggerating (unintentionally, I'm sure) what is going on here. I don't think they are contemplating someone who these cabinet secretaries will report to as if that person were their new boss, I think they are contemplating limited tasking authority over some of the aspects of these department's activities in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm sure that Bob Gates and Condi Rice will still have just as much access to the President as they've always had and they will be able to raise issues related to the Czar's tasking directives with him if they feel it is necessary.

And I don't think this is unprecedented, as you suggest, either. For example, the Director of Central Intelligence (prior to the reorganization of the country's intelligence services) had tasking authority over certain DoD surveillance assets, at least during peacetime. For example, the DCI had tasking authority (http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=3516) over the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (an agency within DoD that has since become the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Geospatial-Intelligence_Agency)).

And after 9/11, Jamie Gorelick of the 9/11 Commission in an interview (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/july-dec04/commissioners_8-02.html) on PBS' News Hour program said:

Well, we recommended... first of all we don't like the word czar because we've had an energy czar, we've had a drug czar and they've been essentially powerless.

We want to see someone who has budget authority over those 15 agencies, hiring, firing authority over those 15 agencies, and personnel and IT and information sharing policy coordination and tasking authority throughout. We also would like to see actual joint planning of operations.

In the same interview, John Lehman, another member of the commission, added:

This person and I too hate the word czar because of the bad precedence(sic) that previous czars have set. It has to have more than just coordinating. He has to have hiring and firing. He's got to have not just budget authority but control over the appropriations. He's got to share some of these powers, hiring and firing and appropriations with the respective agency heads. The secretary of defense, the director of FBI, his deputies have to be duel-headed(sic).

There are precedents for this but they're complicated to work out the power. So it's going to take a lot of work.

Note that this was before the decision was made to establish the Homeland Security function as a cabinet-level department.