"The Coverup": Did the WH destroy emails to hide evidence of a crime?

[jAZ]

So is this "the coverup" in the saying "It's always the coverup that gets you"?

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/17062173.htm

The White House said Wednesday it had mishandled Republican Party-sponsored e-mail accounts used by nearly two dozen presidential aides, resulting in the loss of an undetermined number of e-mails concerning official White House business.

Congressional investigators looking into the administration's firing of eight federal prosecutors already had the nongovernmental e-mail accounts in their sights because some White House aides used them to help plan the U.S. attorneys' ouster. Democrats were questioning whether the use of the GOP-provided e-mail accounts was proof that the firings were political.

Democrats also have been asking if White House officials are purposely conducting sensitive official presidential business via nongovernmental accounts to get around a law requiring preservation - and eventual disclosure - of presidential records. The announcement of the lost e-mails - a rare admission of error from the Bush White House at a delicate time for the administration's relations with Democratically controlled Capitol Hill - gave new fodder for inquiry on this front.

"This sounds like the administration's version of the dog ate my homework," said Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. "I am deeply disturbed that just when this administration is finally subjected to meaningful oversight, it cannot produce the necessary information."

[Logical]

What is funny is that the emails always have a trail, just that the NSA has the key and is unlikely to produce them.

[Direckshun]

Is this even a question?

Of-****ing-course they're destroying emails. Every government in the history of emails and just about every major corporation has done the same thing.

Why are we even talking about this?

[jAZ]

What is funny is that the emails always have a trail, just that the NSA has the key and is unlikely to produce them.
ROFL

That's funny.

[jAZ]

What is funny is that the emails always have a trail, just that the NSA has the key and is unlikely to produce them.
Great minds...

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/013580.php

(April 11, 2007 -- 11:06 PM EST // link)
I feel really bad about the server problems the White House/RNC seems (no, not a typo -- they appear to be a single entity) to be having on the email front. Believe me, I run a small business that is heavily dependent on cranky servers and other gizmos. So I know how hard this can be. But I think this might be a case where that NSA 'terrorist surveillance program' may really come in handy. I'm told the NSA has some very capable data recovery tools they've developed. And even if those guys are too busy hunting al Qaida, doesn't the FBI have some pretty good forensic computer geeks? What happens when, say, a company like Enron (okay, perhaps not a great example) says some emails were 'mishandled' and now are gone forever. I guess that's just the end of it, right? Normally, it's not kosher for a government agency to offer direct assitance to a private entity or political organization. But, hey, we're pretty far down that road I guess. So let's have the FBI go down and take a look at these servers and see if these emails have really disappeared forever.

-- Josh Marshall

[jAZ]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/11/AR2007041102167.html

The White House acknowledged yesterday that e-mails dealing with official government business, possibly including missives related to the firing of eight U.S. attorneys, may have been lost because they were improperly sent through private accounts intended to be used for political activities.

Administration officials said they could offer no estimate of how many e-mails were lost but indicated that some may involve messages from White House senior adviser Karl Rove, whose role in the firings has been under scrutiny by congressional Democrats.

Democrats have charged that Rove and other officials may have used the private accounts, set up through the Republican National Committee, in an effort to avoid normal review. Under federal law, the White House is required to maintain records, including e-mails, involving presidential decision-making and deliberations. White House aides' use of their political e-mail accounts to discuss the prosecutor firings has also fanned Democratic accusations that the actions were politically motivated.

[pikesome]

Sandy Berger deleted them.

[jAZ]

Is this even a question?

Of-****ing-course they're destroying emails. Every government in the history of emails and just about every major corporation has done the same thing.

Why are we even talking about this?
It seems the WH doesn't share your sense of c'est la vie. They refuse to admit that they deleted them.

Covering up the cover-up suggests that maybe there is something wrong with the cover-up.

If they destroy documents in an effort to impede an investigation of a crime, that's certainly illegal.

[stevieray]

Why are we even talking about this?

jaz is saving us from his pain.

[Mr. Kotter]

It seems the WH doesn't share your sense of c'est la vie. They refuse to admit that they deleted them.

Covering up the cover-up suggests that maybe there is something wrong with the cover-up.

If they destroy documents in an effort to impede an investigation of a crime, that's certainly illegal.Are you talking about 1996? Or 1998? Or now....because the above post could apply to either as far as I can tell.

And we already know how far such concerns actually went then, so.... :hmmm:

I just need to be clear what we are talking about, and if there is a singular standard....or a hypocritical double standard being applied. :)

[Logical]

Are you talking about 1996? Or 1998? Or now....because the above post could apply to either as far as I can tell.

And we already know how far such concerns actually went then, so.... :hmmm:

I just need to be clear what we are talking about, and if there is a singular standard....or a hypocritical double standard being applied. :)Clinton deleted emails about the blowjob, shocking.

[Mr. Kotter]

Clinton deleted emails about the blowjob, shocking.Correction: Obstruction of justice in a the Civil Suit of Paula Jones

And...

1996 Campaign Fundraising Scandals

Arms sales to the Chinese


just two of the other issues, which were MUCH more interesting to me; and the press at the time....but they were simply shut down. :hmmm:

[Logical]

Correction: Obstruction of justice in a the Civil Suit of Paula Jones

And...

1996 Campaign Fundraising Scandals

Arms sales to the Chinese


just two of the other issues, which were MUCH more interesting to me; and the press at the time....but they were simply shut down. :hmmm:I am not saying you are wrong, but I don't remember emails being deleted as a topic.

[Mr. Kotter]

I am not saying you are wrong, but I don't remember emails being deleted as a topic.

I don't really wish to rehash it either; I'm just tired of people acting like this is the FIRST time this sort of thing has come under scrutiny....

[Pitt Gorilla]

I don't really wish to rehash it either; I'm just tired of people acting like this is the FIRST time this sort of thing has come under scrutiny....Who is "acting" like this is the FIRST time?

[jAZ]

Who is "acting" like this is the FIRST time?
Kotter is acting as if others are acting. It's all he has left. He finds himself in that last 30%. Reality doesn't matter as much as finding any case for deflection.

[StcChief]

This is such BS.... anyone with a lick of how Information systems work.

IT managed Backup file system to off site storage.

any doubts go get the tapes.

[stevieray]

Kotter is acting as if others are acting. It's all he has left. He finds himself in that last 30%. Reality doesn't matter as much as finding any case for deflection.

is that like all you have left is patting yourself on the back for things that never come to fruition?

[Mr. Kotter]

is that like all you have left is patting yourself on the back for things that never come to fruition?

Two more weeks, man. Two more weeks.... ;)

[Chief Henry]

Two more weeks, man. Two more weeks.... ;)


ROFL

[jAZ]

is that like all you have left is patting yourself on the back for things that never come to fruition?
Gotta love the peanut gallery. Nothing to add but personal invective.

[jAZ]

This is such BS.... anyone with a lick of how Information systems work.

IT managed Backup file system to off site storage.

any doubts go get the tapes.
http://www.nevtron.si/borderline/delete.gif

[jAZ]

Kotter is acting as if others are acting. It's all he has left. He finds himself in that last 30%. Reality doesn't matter as much as finding any case for deflection.
See what I mean?
Two more weeks, man. Two more weeks.... ;)

[the Talking Can]

so, the White House is conducting official business with non-government email accounts...then destroying the emails of official government work that are relevant to an investigation....and we're supposed to discuss Paula Jones?


huh?

god damn people are stupid

[StcChief]

The PC oriented mind. that you can "delete email" as if it's file on your own PC.

Guess where it goes after you type it...........

just like a post here. Goes in a data base. that is backed up DAILY. if not more often.

[stevieray]

Gotta love the peanut gallery. Nothing to add but personal invective.

it's all perspective man, ssomeone looks at you as the peanut gallery.

the fact that you have to attempt to pat yourself on the back and expect some sort of validation for your baseless accusations is all the proof needed for who dwells in personal invection. my favorote part is when you and denise express glee and about pee yourselves when you post an article that you think can make someone look bad.

[StcChief]

so, the White House is conducting official business with non-government email accounts...then destroying the emails of official government work that are relevant to an investigation....and we're supposed to discuss Paula Jones?


huh?

god damn people are stupidbackup tapes...email systems official or not use them.

[jAZ]

backup tapes...email systems official or not use them.
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[beer bacon]

Are you talking about 1996? Or 1998? Or now....because the above post could apply to either as far as I can tell.

And we already know how far such concerns actually went then, so.... :hmmm:

I just need to be clear what we are talking about, and if there is a singular standard....or a hypocritical double standard being applied. :)

Do you really need to douche up every thread with your "I know you are, but what am I?" bullshit?

[Mr. Kotter]

Do you really need to douche up every thread with your "I know you are, but what am I?" bullshit?
Sorry, dude. It's the curse of "experience" (aka, age.) :(

I've been around long enough, I've seen the same bullshit from administrations on both sides of the isle.

I've seen enough partisan pandering, posturing, and bullshit from both parties, that I'm able to recognize demagoguery and hyperbole....and I can distinguish criminal actions from politically motivated opportunism. FTR, I'm not saying that is the case here yet--but I'm willing to wait and see.

Unlike many, I'm not going to get into a rush to judgement. I'll await the results of an investigation, and if facts and evidence support the allegations....well, then I'll get excited about it. Until then, it's just partisan yammering. :rolleyes:

[StcChief]

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So bring out the email addresses, find the tapes and trail.

They better move quick if you don't know the Tape cycle of any server

The servers are on a tape rotation basis they may very daily for year or
maybe it's optical storage CDs now? It may not be FOREVER before cycling the old stuff.

I'm all for proof if their is a problem.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Well, it justs gets better for this administration. So blatant. You know, I once had high hopes......

But that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

[Laz]

I don't really wish to rehash it either; I'm just tired of people acting like this is the FIRST time this sort of thing has come under scrutiny....
no ... your just full-on defending the GOP, per usual.





but you're a independent ..... right?!?

[Laz]

nothing in ever permanent deleted ........ they can find/recover them

they just won't

[Mr. Kotter]

no ... your just full-on defending the GOP, per usual.





but you're a independent ..... right?!?

No. I'm making it official at the next election and crossing the isle.

Being an independent doesn't allow you to vote in primaries in most states; it's for jellyfish. ;)

[Mr. Kotter]

no ... your just full-on defending the GOP, per usual.





but you're a independent ..... right?!?

No. I'm making it official at the next election and crossing the isle.

Being an independent doesn't allow you to vote in primaries in most states; it's for jellyfish. ;)

[KC Dan]

nothing in ever permanent deleted ........ they can find/recover them

they just won't
Who is they & why won't they? Leahy wants to subpoena the entire republican party so why not start now. And. if I were in the WH, I certainly wouldn't look. No. I will reserve judgement on this until actual facts come out. But, in our wonderful Nation's capital, that ain't gonna happen. Cause the right is hiding and the left is grandstanding. Politics as usual, I'm afraid.

[Logical]

Who is they & why won't they? Leahy wants to subpoena the entire republican party so why not start now. And. if I were in the WH, I certainly wouldn't look. No. I will reserve judgement on this until actual facts come out. But, in our wonderful Nation's capital, that ain't gonna happen. Cause the right is hiding and the left is grandstanding. Politics as usual, I'm afraid.They would be the NSA. They won't because they work for the President not congress.

[Logical]

No. I'm making it official at the next election and crossing the isle.

Being an independent doesn't allow you to vote in primaries in most states; it's for jellyfish. ;)


Funny thing is in California being Independent allows you to vote in either the Democratic or Republican primaries.

[Mr. Kotter]

Funny thing is in California being Independent allows you to vote in either the Democratic or Republican primaries.

It's one of about a dozen or so states that do. If I could in SD, I'd probably go that route. I can't.

[Logical]

It's one of about a dozen or so states that do. If I could in SD, I'd probably go that route. I can't.I would think that any of the Republican candidates would be acceptable to you, so wouldn't you rather influence who the Democrats have as their nominee?

[Mr. Kotter]

I would think that any of the Republican candidates would be acceptable to you, so wouldn't you rather influence who the Democrats have as their nominee?

Eh...it's probably a part of my hang-up with "integrity."

I see that as "cheating," I guess. Also, if the Dems are stupid enough to nominate Hillary, they deserve her--and their November defeat.

OTOH, if Obama get the nomination, AND I'm comfortable with his position on my main issues, I will have no qualms at all voting for him....depending, of course, on who the Republican nominee is.

[Ugly Duck]

Why are we even talking about this?

Because its illegal?

"The biggest problem here is really that here is a White House that is deliberately violating an existing statute that requires them to preserve all records," said Sloan. "And we have significant evidence now both from the RNC e-mail and the White House e-mail that are missing that the White House was using every means possible to avoid complying with the law."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html

[BigRedChief]

What a croc of shit. You can get email from the Exchange server and the backups. It may be gone from their pc and account but there its there on the server.

[patteeu]

I've got a question that I don't think anyone's chimed in on yet. Is it possible that these supposedly missing e-mails might be backed up somewhere other than on the local computer on which they were typed? Like, say, a server or something? :p

[patteeu]

Because its illegal?

"The biggest problem here is really that here is a White House that is deliberately violating an existing statute that requires them to preserve all records," said Sloan. "And we have significant evidence now both from the RNC e-mail and the White House e-mail that are missing that the White House was using every means possible to avoid complying with the law."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html

Well we can certainly expect a nonpartisan characterization from Ms. Sloan of CREW, can't we? Isn't this the same outfit that worked with democrats to withhold information about inappropriate emails to Congressional pages without regard to the potential danger those pages might have been in until it became politically advantageous for democrats to disclose them? Yes, as a matter of fact, I think it is.

[Ugly Duck]

Isn't this the same outfit that worked with democrats to withhold information about inappropriate emails to Congressional pages without regard to the potential danger those pages might have been in until it became politically advantageous for democrats to disclose them? Yes, as a matter of fact, I think it is.

Hey c'mon now... now way you can blame Dems for sick perverted gay pedophile Republican behavior. That was Republican perversion & coverup all the way.

[Mr. Kotter]

If there is a smoking gun (proof and real evidence, not allegations and hyperbole) in this, I'll join those calling for impeachment...good luck:

[patteeu]

Hey c'mon now... now way you can blame Dems for sick perverted gay pedophile Republican behavior. That was Republican perversion & coverup all the way.

I'm just pointing out that CREW is the same highly partisan group (with the nonpartisan sounding name) who helped democrats keep information about Foley's non-pedophilic but inappropriate behavior toward pages out of the spotlight until it became politically advantageous to their benefactors. Let no one say they aren't a tolerant group though. They tolerated an ongoing risk to the well-being of our Congressional pages in order to maximize democrat political benefit. :)

[noa]

I'm just pointing out that CREW is the same highly partisan group (with the nonpartisan sounding name) who helped democrats keep information about Foley's non-pedophilic but inappropriate behavior toward pages out of the spotlight until it became politically advantageous to their benefactors. Let no one say they aren't a tolerant group though. They tolerated an ongoing risk to the well-being of our Congressional pages in order to maximize democrat political benefit. :)


Come on patty. Repubs were trying to cover up the issue for their own political benefit, too. Everyone in DC plays politics. Dems cannot be blamed for anything having to do with Foley because Repubs knew and didn't disclose either. At some point, you have to blame Foley for his own actions, not the Dems, even though I know you like to pin as many problems in this world to the Democrats.

[patteeu]

Come on patty. Repubs were trying to cover up the issue for their own political benefit, too. Everyone in DC plays politics. Dems cannot be blamed for anything having to do with Foley because Repubs knew and didn't disclose either. At some point, you have to blame Foley for his own actions, not the Dems, even though I know you like to pin as many problems in this world to the Democrats.

The point I'm making is about CREW being a partisan outfit despite the apple-pie-and-goodness appeal of their name.

As for the Foley situation, I think each side is responsible for their own actions (or inactions) and Foley is individually responsible for his. But for anyone who thinks it was irresponsible or scandalous for the Republicans to have tried to handle the situation without disclosing it to the public, I think they need to recognize that democrats did the same thing for similar reasons.

I completely agree with your point that everyone in DC plays politics.

[BigRedChief]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22685861/
I can't believe they were reusing back up tapes. Why? What if you need to recover data?

Did they ever explain why the reused tapes?

[Adept Havelock]

Being an independent doesn't allow you to vote in primaries in most states; it's for jellyfish. ;)

Being a party member doesn't make you special. It's for sheep. ;)

U C whut I did there? Even a yokel from South Dakota oughta get it. :p

[memyselfI]

So is this "the coverup" in the saying "It's always the coverup that gets you"?

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/17062173.htm

[I][INDENT]The White House said Wednesday it had mishandled Republican Party-sponsored e-mail accounts used by nearly two dozen presidential aides, resulting in the loss of an undetermined number of e-mails concerning official White House business.


I think they clearly meant to say MANHANDLED.

[jAZ]

It was a coverup.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/14/AR2009011401957_pf.html

Missing White House E-Mails Traced, Justice Aide Says

By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 15, 2009; A09

A Justice Department lawyer told a federal judge yesterday that the Bush administration will meet its legal requirement to transfer e-mails to the National Archives after spending more than $10 million to locate 14 million e-mails reported missing four years ago from White House computer files.

Civil division trial lawyer Helen H. Hong made the disclosure at a court hearing provoked by a 2007 lawsuit filed by outside groups to ensure that politically significant records created by the White House are not destroyed or removed before President Bush leaves office at noon on Tuesday. She said the department plans to argue in a court filing this week that the administration's successful recent search renders the lawsuit moot.

Hong's statement came hours after U.S. District Court Judge Henry H. Kennedy Jr. ordered employees of the president's executive office -- with just days to go before their departure -- to undertake a comprehensive search of computer workstations, preserve portable hard drives and examine any e-mail archives created or retained from 2003 to 2005, the period in which e-mails appeared to be missing.

Hong said private contractors had helped find the e-mails by searching through an estimated 60,000 tapes that contain daily recordings of the entire contents of the White House computers as a precaution against an electronic disaster.

Her remarks prompted Anne Weisman, the counsel for one of two plaintiffs in the lawsuit, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), to say, "I'll believe it when I see it." Weisman said she hoped the administration's efforts to recover the e-mails can be verified by an independent expert, noting that officials have repeatedly declined to detail the procedures they used. She also said questions persist about whether backup tapes still existed for all of the days for which e-mails were reported missing.

Meredith Fuchs, counsel for the other plaintiff, a historical group known as the National Security Archive, said the Justice Department's statement was "striking" because the admission that 14 million e-mails had to be recovered showed "the level of mismanagement at the White House" of its historically significant records. She said, "For the past year and a half, they said, 'Don't worry, don't worry, leave us alone.' Now they say, at the last minute, they have solved it. I want to see the evidence."

Kennedy's order was the latest in a series of rulings about the fate of Bush administration records that have been unfavorable to the White House. Bush aides had long contended that the plaintiffs lacked standing to sue, and they had resisted a court order requiring that White House preserve the backup tapes that were used to recover the e-mails; the courts rejected both positions.

Last week, a different judge overrode White House objections and ordered the administration to search for information that CREW is seeking on White House visitors during the Bush tenure. Another judge turned aside White House objections to handing copies to aides of President-elect Barack Obama of documents related to the controversial firings of U.S. prosecutors in 2006, which Congress has demanded to see. Still to be decided, possibly in coming days, is a lawsuit by CREW demanding the preservation of vice presidential records that aides to Dick Cheney have said he alone can decide to withhold or discard.

The dispute over recovery of the missing e-mails was provoked by the disclosure four years ago that the White House, in switching to a new internal e-mail system shortly after Bush's election, had abandoned an automatic archiving system meant to preserve all messages containing official business. Under the new system, any of the 3,000 or so regular White House employees could access e-mail storage files, enabling them to delete messages.

An internal White House report noted in 2005 that e-mails from specific periods appeared to be missing, including key moments related to the invasion of Iraq and to a federal probe of the leak of Valerie Plame Wilson's classified employment with the CIA. White House officials called that study flawed after congressional investigators released it.

Once the e-mails are transferred to the National Archives, federal law allows them to be requested under the Freedom of Information Act after a five-year interval.

[jAZ]

It sounds like these emails might be the "missing link" to a whole lot of the scandals of the last 8 years. They all "disappear" for years, the Bush administration fights disclosure suits... and days before they leave office and hours after their last lost court battle, they say "oh, by the way... hear they are!!! Now lock them up for another 5 years, please!"

[jAZ]

If there is a smoking gun (proof and real evidence, not allegations and hyperbole) in this, I'll join those calling for impeachment...good luck:

Not if you hide the evidence and stall until 5 years after you leave office.

[jAZ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22685861/
I can't believe they were reusing back up tapes. Why? What if you need to recover data?

Did they ever explain why the reused tapes?

It would appear that they lied about that.

[petegz28]

Sandy Berger deleted them.

ROFL

Don't distract jAZ with criminals.

[petegz28]

JFC, show me one WH Admin that has never destroyed, mail, e0mails, tapes or otherwise covered up stuff?

The man is out of office in 5 days and jAZ still can't get over it.

Get over it dude. No one gives a shit.

I just hope you are this diligent with the oncoming Admin. Somehow I think you will be pooring out excuses more than anything.

[Mr. Kotter]

Not if you hide the evidence and stall until 5 years after you leave office.



Kinda like some of the info and files and missing documents that Bill Clinton (and Hillary)..... "found" and, belatedly, and sometimes eventually "turned-over" (and usually, incompletely) in the Whitewater/Filegate
/Vince Foster/Jones-Lewinsky/1996 Democratic Fundraising/Tecnnology to China/Marc Rich pardon cases?

I detested it then: and I detest it now. Most politicians suck. Yeah. So what's new? :shrug:

[Taco John]

JFC, show me one WH Admin that has never destroyed, mail, e0mails, tapes or otherwise covered up stuff?



You're permitting corruption because it's par for the course?


Mind if I tap your bank account then? What do you care, it happens all the time.

[petegz28]

You're permitting corruption because it's par for the course?


Mind if I tap your bank account then? What do you care, it happens all the time.

STFU Taco Bell

You people act like this is the first time this has ever happened.

Save your selective outrage.

[petegz28]

Kinda like some of the info and files and missing documents that Bill Clinton (and Hillary)..... "found" and, belatedly, and sometimes eventually "turned-over" (and usually, incompletely) in the Whitewater/Filegate
/Vince Foster/Jones-Lewinsky/1996 Democratic Fundraising/Tecnnology to China/Marc Rich pardon cases?

I detested it then: and I detest it now. Most politicians suck. Yeah. So what's new? :shrug:

That's just it...I bet jAZ and Taco Smell cared nothing about any crooked shit Clinton did.....

WE....MUST...BLAME.....BUSH! /j.t. kirk

[StcChief]

again. Get the mail server backup tapes.

[beer bacon]

so, the White House is conducting official business with non-government email accounts...then destroying the emails of official government work that are relevant to an investigation....and we're supposed to discuss Paula Jones?


huh?

god damn people are stupid

Specifically, Kotter is stupid.

[Mr. Kotter]

Specifically, Kotter is stupid.

Are you an asshole in real life too, or do you save it for us....Mr. Even-If-I-Had-A-Brain-I-Wouldn't-Use-It?

:hmmm:

[beer bacon]

Are you an asshole in real life too, or do you save it for us....Mr. Even-If-I-Had-A-Brain-I-Wouldn't-Use-It?

:hmmm:

Sure judge, I used my Wall Street firm to con Americans out of billions of dollars, but Mr. Smith looked at naked ladies on his work computer!!

[Direckshun]

..
Is this even a question?

Of-****ing-course they're destroying emails. Every government in the history of emails and just about every major corporation has done the same thing.

Why are we even talking about this?

[stevieray]

..
because we aren't "them"