Mistakes were made

[the Talking Can]

Countless White House E-Mails Deleted

By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Thursday, April 12, 2007; 11:24 AM

Countless e-mails to and from many key White House staffers have been deleted -- lost to history and placed out of reach of congressional subpoenas -- due to a brazen violation of internal White House policy that was allowed to continue for more than six years, the White House acknowledged yesterday.

The leading culprit appears to be President Bush's enormously influential political adviser Karl Rove, who reportedly used his Republican National Committee-provided Blackberry and e-mail accounts for most of his electronic communication.

Until 2004, all e-mail on RNC accounts was routinely deleted after 30 days. Since 2004, White House staffers using those accounts have been able to save their e-mail indefinitely -- but have also been able to delete whatever they felt like deleting. By comparison, the White House e-mail system preserves absolutely everything forever, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act.

The White House yesterday said it has no idea how many e-mails have been lost.

In an afternoon conference call with reporters, White House spokesman Scott Stanzel spread the blame all around. "White House policy did not give clear enough guidance," he said. "The oversight of that wasn't aggressive enough." And individual White House staffers "did not do a good enough job of following existing preservation policy -- or seeking guidance."

Said Stanzel: "I guess the bottom line is that our policy at the White House was not clear enough for employees."

But when I asked Stanzel to read out loud the White House e-mail policy, it seemed clear enough to me: "Federal law requires the preservation of electronic communications sent or received by White House staff," says the handbook that all staffers are given and expected to read and comply with.

"As a result, personnel working on behalf of the EOP [Executive Office of the President] are expected to only use government-provided e-mail services for all official communication."

The handbook further explains: "The official EOP e-mail system is designed to automatically comply with records management requirements."

And if that wasn't clear enough, the handbook notes -- as was the case in the Clinton administration -- that "commercial or free e-mail sites and chat rooms are blocked from the EOP network to help staff members ensure compliance and to prevent the circumvention of the records management requirements."

Stanzel refused to publicly release the relevant portions of the White House staff manual and denied my request to make public the transcript of the call, which lasted more than an hour but which -- due to Stanzel's refusal or inability to provide straight answers on many issues -- raised more questions than it answered.......cont. for 4 pages

mistakes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/04/12/BL2007041200941.html)

[Mr. Kotter]

I think we should impeach the entire lying sack of shit administration.

Under certain conditions, we maybe ought to execute them too.

[Direckshun]

I think we should impeach the entire lying sack of shit administration.

Under certain conditions, we maybe ought to execute them too.
Your satire has the cutting subtlety of a truck horn.

[penchief]

I think we should impeach the entire lying sack of shit administration.

Under certain conditions, we maybe ought to execute them too.

I wouldn't go that far. But I would say that we should not ignore the obvious red flags, either. The Bush Administration's pattern of both dishonesty and politicization have been well established. It would be a dereliction of duty by not only the congress, but also by the American people, to ignore the implications of such behavior when related to our justice system and our democratic process.

That is a serious matter. This is exactly the time when we should all stop and take an inventory of what the hell is really going on.

JMO.

[Mr. Kotter]

....I would say that we should not ignore the obvious red flags, either. The _______________ Administration's pattern of both dishonesty and politicization have been well established. It would be a dereliction of duty by not only the congress, but also by the American people, to ignore the implications of such behavior when related to our justice system and our democratic process.

That is a serious matter. This is exactly the time when we should all stop and take an inventory of what the hell is really going on.

JMO.
I agree. I've also fixed your post so that critics of any administration, can simply insert the historical or future administration they wish to denigrate....for their use. Amazingly, it will be accurate a vast majority of the time. It will be quite convenient.

Thanks for your fine efforts....Sir penchief. You, my friend, are a GREAT American. :clap:

[penchief]

I agree. I've also fixed your post so that critics of any administration, can simply insert the historical or future administration they wish to denigrate....for their use. Amazingly, it will be accurate a vast majority of the time. It will be quite convenient.

Thanks for your fine efforts....Sir penchief. You, my friend, are a GREAT American. :clap:

And I commend you for commending me. Thank you. You're welcome.

But you conveniently did not embolden the most important part. This administration MAY HAVE exploited this country's most totally awesome justice system to intentionally harm innocent people and to help people who were obstructing justice in their name, all for political leverage.

For Christ's sake, that is an affront to the foundation of our country and to our God-given rights! We have a responsibility to find out how this happened and use the people's authority to make sure that it doesn't happen again. This ain't no fuggin' ordinary blow job.

[patteeu]

And I commend you for commending me. Thank you. You're welcome.

But you conveniently did not embolden the most important part. This administration MAY HAVE exploited this country's most totally awesome justice system to intentionally harm innocent people and to help people who were obstructing justice in their name, all for political leverage.

For Christ's sake, that is an affront to the foundation of our country and to our God-given rights! We have a responsibility to find out how this happened and use the people's authority to make sure that it doesn't happen again. This ain't no fuggin' ordinary blow job.

Intentionally harm innocent people?

[Mr. Kotter]

Intentionally harm innocent people?

Yeah, damn paper-cuts from those crappy cheap ass subpoenas on recycled paper and, er....eh....welll....stuff. ;)

[penchief]

Intentionally harm innocent people?

Well I suppose that if you don't believe that inappropriately damaging someone's reputation for not being a political lackey is not harming someone then you might have a point. But I would disagree with that.

If you don't believe that interfering with the administration of justice for strictly political purposes is not prospectively harmful to all Americans you might also have a point. But I would disagree with that, as well.

[stevieray]

This ain't no fuggin' ordinary blow job.

neither was that one. it was adultery.

[patteeu]

Well I suppose that if you don't believe that inappropriately damaging someone's reputation for not being a political lackey is not harming someone then you might have a point. But I would disagree with that.

If you don't believe that interfering with the administration of justice for strictly political purposes is not prospectively harmful to all Americans you might also have a point. But I would disagree with that, as well.

I don't think any innocent people have been intentionally harmed in any significant way.

[patteeu]

What business is it of democrats what was in these Republican political strategy e-mails anyway? Isn't the whole point of having a separate system available so that political discussions can take place without intermingling them with official WH business? Even if they haven't been lost, I don't know why the WH would allow any of them to be turned over anyway.

Am I missing something?

[banyon]

What business is it of democrats what was in these Republican political strategy e-mails anyway? Isn't the whole point of having a separate system available so that political discussions can take place without intermingling them with official WH business? Even if they haven't been lost, I don't know why the WH would allow any of them to be turned over anyway.

Am I missing something?

They weren't political strategy e-mails, they were executive branch deliberations about staffing decisions which, if destroyed (as 4 years' worth of Rove's appear to be) might constitute a violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978 which requires them to adequately maintain records of executive branch actions, decisions, and deliberations.

[Mr. Kotter]

They weren't political strategy e-mails, they were executive branch deliberations about staffing decisions which, if destroyed (as 4 years' worth of Rove's appear to be) might constitute a violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978 which requires them to adequately maintain records of executive branch actions, decisions, and deliberations.

Lawyers will have, as you know, a hey-day....parsing it, won't they? ;)

[banyon]

Lawyers will have, as you know, a hey-day....parsing it, won't they? ;)

Whatever, the point of the act, as you can well imagine in 1978 was to prevent the kind of off-the-record/destruction of evidence we saw in the Watergate scandal.

[the Talking Can]

there are emails missing from the RNC servers the white house was using AND emails missing from the White House's own operations....

2 distinct instances of emails being destroyed, large volumes of emails....

that's an amazing coincidence...but we're supposed to pretend nothing is happening...let's talk about Monica Lewinsky instead, what do you say guys?

here is the latest excuse from the White House press secretary:

"But there was a conversion sometime between 2002 and 2003 to convert people that were using Lotus Notes when we first arrived to Microsoft Outlook. And I know that the tech people worked to get us all transferred over. We had to save our Word documents and all to make sure that they weren't lost in that transition.

I don't have a specific number for you. Again, I wouldn't rule out that there were a potential 5 million emails lost, but we'll see if we can get to you. If it was 5 million, I think that, again, out of 1,700 people using email every day, again, there was no intent to have lost them."


lots of things get lost and forgotten in this administration....wierd

[patteeu]

They weren't political strategy e-mails, they were executive branch deliberations about staffing decisions which, if destroyed (as 4 years' worth of Rove's appear to be) might constitute a violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978 which requires them to adequately maintain records of executive branch actions, decisions, and deliberations.

I'll admit that I don't know the details of this story yet, but it sure seems like there'd be a pretty fine line between political deliberations between party members and executive branch deliberations about a subject that is clearly knee deep in political implications and considerations.

Congressional democrats using this USA dismissal bruhaha as a backdoor excuse to fish around in the waters where the strategies of the RNC swim seems beyond the pale to me.

[KC Dan]

Congressional democrats using this USA dismissal bruhaha as a backdoor excuse to fish around in the waters where the strategies of the RNC swim seems beyond the pale to me.
Almost like a legal backdoor "watergate break-in" type of intelligence gathering...

[patteeu]

Almost like a legal backdoor "watergate break-in" type of intelligence gathering...

Good point.

[Mr. Kotter]

...lots of things get lost and forgotten in this administration....wierd

That's your biggest mistake: you are under the delusion this sort of thing is "weird."

Historically, it just isn't; it's pretty routine, actually. It's been going on for at least the last 40 years....and, frankly, much longer.

[beer bacon]

That's your biggest mistake: you are under the delusion this sort of thing is "weird."

Historically, it just isn't; it's pretty routine, actually. It's been going on for at least the last 40 years....and, frankly, much longer.

Well, I feel much better now.

[the Talking Can]

That's your biggest mistake: you are under the delusion this sort of thing is "weird."

Historically, it just isn't; it's pretty routine, actually. It's been going on for at least the last 40 years....and, frankly, much longer.

do you ever respond to the actual issue?

I'd be happy to read about the 40 year history of White Houses honestly losing millions of emails from multiple accounts...emails that just so happen to be relevent to investigations...

LBJ and his emails?

[Mr. Kotter]

do you ever respond to the actual issue?

I'd be happy to read about the 40 year history of White Houses honestly losing millions of emails from multiple accounts...emails that just so happen to be relevent to investigations...

LBJ and his emails?

Respond to the issue? Okay....fine: I'll await the facts and results of the investigation and inquiry before jumping to any conclusions.

I'm sure that doesn't satisfy you either, so....


Are you really so obtuse as to think I was referring to, specifically, emails? :rolleyes:

You know, they did keep "official records".....perhaps you've heard of the infamous tapes of Nixon, and Johnson, for example?

[penchief]

Congressional democrats using this USA dismissal bruhaha as a backdoor excuse to fish around in the waters where the strategies of the RNC swim seems beyond the pale to me.

Almost like a legal backdoor "watergate break-in" type of intelligence gathering...

Oh yeah, I know what you mean. The Iraq debacle, the international isolation, the country's divide, the steady stream of misinformation coming from this administration is totally the fault of those slimy immoral cut and run democrats who have tried to slow bleed the country since gaining control of congress five months ago. If they didn't control congress everything would be just dandy because there wouldn't be any nosy investigations into the truth.

All's well that ends well if what the people don't know won't hurt us.