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View Full Version : Rudy vs. Hillary... On the Issues


recxjake
04-18-2007, 12:30 PM
The Global War Against Islamofascism-

Hillary Clinton: Announce the date of our surrender in Iraq, withdrawing our military forces leaving Iran to fill the power vacuum created by our retreat. Go on defense against terrorism. Use a law enforcement model to respond to terrorist attacks after they have occurred instead of engaging nations and groups which support and fund terrorism.

Rudy Giuliani: Stay on offense in the War on Terror. Weakness only encourages aggression. America is at war not because we want to be, but because the terrorists declared war on us, before the attacks of September 11th. Iraq is only one front in the larger war on terror. Failure there would lead to a broader and bloodier regional conflict in the near future.

Taxes and Spending-

Hillary Clinton: Eliminate the Bush Tax cuts. Instigate massive new tax burdens and regulation on the job creating sectors of the American economy as well as increased governmental spending.

Rudy Giuliani: Believes in supply-side economics, reducing capital gains taxes, and eliminating burdensome regulations on businesses that restrain growth like Sarbanes-Oxley. Would give the Death Tax the death penalty. Exercise fiscal discipline by controlling spending and cutting wasteful programs.

Health Care-

Hillary Clinton: Institute European-style socialized medicine that would reduce choice, ration health care, and would require the largest tax increase in the history of the United States to pay for. Take the decisions regarding one’s health care options away from patients and doctors and place them in the hands of a government bureaucracy.

Rudy Giuliani: Use the power of the free market to expand health care options in the form of Health Savings Accounts (HSA’s) which allow individuals to provide for the own health care (and make their own health care decisions) for a lifetime.

Gun Control-

Hillary Clinton: Their is no individual right to bear arms in the U.S. Constitution. Enact laws that would severely restrict gun ownership at the federal level for every U.S. citizen.

Rudy Giuliani: The U.S. Constitution protects an individual’s right to bear arms. Gun control laws should be geared towards punishing criminals and should only be made at the lowest levels of government which are nearest to the people.

Abortion-

Hillary Clinton: Abortion is a right which is inherent to the U.S. Constitution. Tax dollars should be used to fund abortions in most cases at all levels of government. Pro-Choice litmus test for any potential Supreme Court nominee. Appoint Supreme Court Justices such as Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Personally Pro-Choice and committed to ensuring that her personal belief remains the law of the land.

Rudy Giuliani: Abortion is a right because that is the current status of the law as determined by the Supreme Court. There should be no changes to current law regarding federal funding of abortion (the Hyde Amendment) which only allows for federal funding in the cases of rape, incest, and life of the mother. It is an individual State’s decision as to whether to fund abortions with their own tax dollars. No litmus test for Supreme Court nominees. Appoint strict constructionist judges that will interpret the law and not legislate their personal beliefs from the bench. Nominate judges like Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. Although personally Pro-Choice, realizes that the judges he would appoint could potentially come to a decision that would restrict abortion rights.



Latest Poll out today..... Rudy 51%... Hillary 46%
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_giuliani_vs_clinton-227.html

BucEyedPea
04-18-2007, 02:16 PM
Thanks for the Hilludy thread rex. My avy is happy today. :p

Direckshun
04-18-2007, 03:16 PM
Hillary Clinton: Abortion is a right which is inherent to the U.S. Constitution.

Rudy Giuliani: Abortion is a right because that is the current status of the law as determined by the Supreme Court.
I think this is my favorite part of that little hack job.

StcChief
04-18-2007, 03:38 PM
Gun control, socialized HC, more Taxes. Just say NO.

BucEyedPea
04-18-2007, 04:09 PM
More wars,more nation building, more Empire, more debt & deficits, socialized HC anyway...just a version that will "work" (cough! cough!)...'er ya' know what with some free-market incentive in it but still a fascist approach. Just say "No!"

CRONUS
04-18-2007, 05:45 PM
Way to post unbiased statements. I am sure the candidates would say those exact same things.:rolleyes:

noa
04-18-2007, 07:07 PM
More wars,more nation building, more Empire, more debt & deficits

I just saw a story on Frontline that analyzed Al Qaeda's plans. It contained a snippet on how Bin Laden and Zarqawi (before he died) both agreed that they couldn't defeat America in a battle, so they had to adopt a different strategy. Their plan is to force us to overextend ourselves for a long time, and that's how our empire will crumble. They said all they have to do is send two Al Qaeda guys anywhere in the world with an Al Qaeda message and America will have to respond. Force us to think we are on the offensive, when really all America is doing is responding to any appearance of a terror threat. Guiliani's approach, as expressed in this email that Recxjake shared with us, is exactly the attitude Al Qaeda wants to take advantage of IMO.

BucEyedPea
04-18-2007, 08:16 PM
I just saw a story on Frontline that analyzed Al Qaeda's plans. It contained a snippet on how Bin Laden and Zarqawi (before he died) both agreed that they couldn't defeat America in a battle, so they had to adopt a different strategy. Their plan is to force us to overextend ourselves for a long time, and that's how our empire will crumble. They said all they have to do is send two Al Qaeda guys anywhere in the world with an Al Qaeda message and America will have to respond. Force us to think we are on the offensive, when really all America is doing is responding to any appearance of a terror threat. Guiliani's approach, as expressed in this email that Recxjake shared with us, is exactly the attitude Al Qaeda wants to take advantage of IMO.
You're absolutely correct. And that's the story of every great superpower too.
That's how we defeated the British. We won few battles. This cannot be won using conventional nation state warfare. It's illogical and stupid. I've felt that way for a long time and is why I won't vote for any candidate who sings the same song....'er swan song.

The barbarians are at the gate.

recxjake
04-18-2007, 09:13 PM
Way to post unbiased statements. I am sure the candidates would say those exact same things.:rolleyes:

Name one thing that I said about Hillary that is not true.

CRONUS
04-19-2007, 01:30 AM
Name one thing that I said about Hillary that is not true.Hillary is never going to say we surrender in Iraq, you twit.

pikesome
04-19-2007, 08:52 AM
Hillary is never going to say we surrender in Iraq, you twit.

Define "surrender". Maybe not white flag surrendering but just packing up is sure going to look like surrendering to a great number of people. And that she has defiantly supported.

recxjake
04-19-2007, 09:50 AM
Hillary is never going to say we surrender in Iraq, you twit.

ROFL

Pitt Gorilla
04-19-2007, 09:56 AM
Name one thing that I said about Hillary that is not true.
I was suprised to read that Hillary said/wrote, "Their [sic] is no individual right to bear arms in the U.S. Constitution." Perhaps she did, but that certainly isn't the way to get elected. I also can't believe that her level of education allowed her to use "their" instead of "there."

Chiefnj
04-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Hillary is never going to say we surrender in Iraq, you twit.

You mean she also didn't say she was going to "instigate massive new tax burdens" or she will "Institute European-style socialized medicine that would reduce choice, ration health care, and would require the largest tax increase in the history of the United States to pay for", or "Use a law enforcement model to respond to terrorist attacks after they have occurred"???



Recxjake, you really aren't stupid enough to believe this, are you?

noa
04-19-2007, 11:51 AM
Recxjake, are you claiming authorship of this "analysis"?

recxjake
04-19-2007, 12:44 PM
You mean she also didn't say she was going to "instigate massive new tax burdens" or she will "Institute European-style socialized medicine that would reduce choice, ration health care, and would require the largest tax increase in the history of the United States to pay for", or "Use a law enforcement model to respond to terrorist attacks after they have occurred"???



Recxjake, you really aren't stupid enough to believe this, are you?

Thats what she wants to do.... Raise taxes and Socialize health care... you just dont want to hear it.

recxjake
04-19-2007, 12:45 PM
Recxjake, are you claiming authorship of this "analysis"?

nope.

StcChief
04-19-2007, 12:52 PM
sHillary is un-electable.

Pitt Gorilla
04-19-2007, 02:52 PM
I was suprised to read that Hillary said/wrote, "Their [sic] is no individual right to bear arms in the U.S. Constitution." Perhaps she did, but that certainly isn't the way to get elected. I also can't believe that her level of education allowed her to use "their" instead of "there."recx, could you at least provide a citation for this fact? Honestly, I had never heard that previously.

noa
04-19-2007, 02:59 PM
recx, could you at least provide a citation for this fact? Honestly, I had never heard that previously.

It might be hard to do considering this piece was actually written buy some guy here: http://race42008.com/2007/04/18/choose-carefully/

No citations anywhere on the page.

Pitt Gorilla
04-20-2007, 02:08 PM
It might be hard to do considering this piece was actually written buy some guy here: http://race42008.com/2007/04/18/choose-carefully/

No citations anywhere on the page.I still can't find a citation for that. recx, please provide a citation, if at all possible.

pikesome
04-20-2007, 08:47 PM
I still can't find a citation for that. recx, please provide a citation, if at all possible.

It's not a quote in the original article so I'm guessing that the author's not attributing the words to her directly. The language is very similar to quotes that have been associated with US v Miller in Internet postings but it doesn't seem to have actually been part of the decision. It seems that, among gun control proponents, that "no individual right to own guns" is the Miller case in a nutshell (which is not true). That concept has been seized and furthered like many other questionable ideologies, without everyone who espouses them fully understanding where it came from. As all this relates to Mrs. Clinton, I can find no statement that would even with the loosest interpretation would seem to say that this is her opinion. She hasn't spoken against any serious gun control proposal either that I could find, perhaps that really is her belief. If so, she's never stated it publicly.

Direckshun
04-21-2007, 01:11 AM
Hillary Clinton: Abortion is a right which is inherent to the U.S. Constitution.

Rudy Giuliani: Abortion is a right because that is the current status of the law as determined by the Supreme Court.
Out of morbid curiousity, I would like someone to properly distinguish these two positions for me.

Please. For my entertainment. Recxjake, that's your cue.

Direckshun
04-23-2007, 09:00 AM
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Direckshun
04-24-2007, 07:35 PM
Really? Nothing?

patteeu
04-25-2007, 07:38 AM
Out of morbid curiousity, I would like someone to properly distinguish these two positions for me.

The distinction I would draw is that the Hillary statement implies that she agrees that courts have properly interpreted the constitution on this subject. The Rudy statement leaves open the possibility that he does not agree with the current constitutional jurisprudence, but it also indicates that he considers the courts to be the authority on the subject.

Pitt Gorilla
04-27-2007, 09:21 PM
I was suprised to read that Hillary said/wrote, "Their [sic] is no individual right to bear arms in the U.S. Constitution." Perhaps she did, but that certainly isn't the way to get elected. I also can't believe that her level of education allowed her to use "their" instead of "there."recxjake, are you avoiding my question?

recxjake
04-27-2007, 09:24 PM
recxjake, are you avoiding my question?

I didn't write it... I'm not sure where he got the facts from... but it is fair, after watching last night's debate that Hillary is not pro guns.

recxjake
04-27-2007, 09:25 PM
recxjake, are you avoiding my question?

I didn't write it... I'm not sure where he got the facts from... but it is fair to say after watching last night's debate that Hillary is not pro guns.

Pitt Gorilla
04-27-2007, 09:29 PM
I didn't write it... I'm not sure where he got the facts from... but it is fair to say after watching last night's debate that Hillary is not pro guns.You didn't write it, you don't cite the author, and you don't stand by the content? What's the point of posting it?