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View Full Version : Mulsims - changing our way of life


Natty_Light_Man
04-25-2007, 02:51 PM
What is happening to Great USA. Our wonderful country... Is our freedom, our way of life, slipping away from us before our very eyes.


"A Minneapolis Community and Technical College proposal to install foot baths for Muslim students provokes action at the Legislature and the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities board."

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1130217.html

or

A middle school student suspended for putting a lunch bag on a table containing a ham sandwich.

"One student has been suspended and more disciplinary action could follow a possible hate crime at Lewiston Middle School, Superintendent Leon Levesque said Wednesday."


http://www.sunjournal.com/story/208385-3/LewistonAuburn/Hate_incident_in_city/

crazycoffey
04-25-2007, 02:56 PM
Am I to understand that having rules or foot baths for muslims in america is somehow to effect me and my family?


Can I still eat ham and have stinky feet?

should I (and you and the rest of us) not infringe on other's freedoms of religious beliefs?

Then I don't understand how they are changing my way of life.

chasedude
04-25-2007, 02:58 PM
Keith Ellison (D) of Minnesota was sworn in on the Koran. I can see why something like this is being pushed into Minn schools. As far as the "hate crime" I think that's going to far. What would happen if I waved a hotdog in front of a male homosexual??

StcChief
04-25-2007, 03:00 PM
Well if you don't mind paying for
"installing foot baths for Muslim students"

One student has been suspended and more disciplinary action could follow a possible hate crime at Lewiston Middle School,


Only Muslims have rights to be offended, didn't you know that.

If the kids said anything about the muslim offending him what would happen.

Natty_Light_Man
04-25-2007, 03:02 PM
Explain this. From the same School. Yes, this is reducing our freedom while facilitating others.

Separation of church and state is clearest at the college during the Christmas season. A memo from Cusick and President Phil Davis, dated Nov. 28, 2006, exhorted supervisors to banish any public display of holiday cheer: "As we head into the holiday season ... "all public offices and areas should refrain from displays that may represent to our students, employees or the public that the college is promoting any particular religion." Departments considering sending out holiday cards, the memo added, should avoid cards "that appear to promote any particular religious holiday."...

Eleazar
04-25-2007, 03:02 PM
This ought to be good.

chasedude
04-25-2007, 03:04 PM
It's all retarded Dogma, I'll never understand religion and why certain things need to be done to be "holy".

Adept Havelock
04-25-2007, 03:04 PM
Explain this. From the same School. Yes, this is reducing our freedom while facilitating others.

Separation of church and state is clearest at the college during the Christmas season. A memo from Cusick and President Phil Davis, dated Nov. 28, 2006, exhorted supervisors to banish any public display of holiday cheer: "As we head into the holiday season ... "all public offices and areas should refrain from displays that may represent to our students, employees or the public that the college is promoting any particular religion." Departments considering sending out holiday cards, the memo added, should avoid cards "that appear to promote any particular religious holiday."...


OH NO. XMAS IS UNDER ATTACK! NOTIFY LOOFAH O'REALLY IMMEDIATELY! [/UP]

Natty_Light_Man
04-25-2007, 03:09 PM
Keith Ellison (D) of Minnesota was sworn in on the Koran. I can see why something like this is being pushed into Minn schools. As far as the "hate crime" I think that's going to far. What would happen if I waved a hotdog in front of a male homosexual??

I think all Catholics should have the right to demand no meat served in restaurants or public school on Fridays during lent. :rolleyes:

This is insane….

Next I will not be able to cook a pork steak in my backyard because the smell may reach my neighbors yard.

I guess I should sell my grill and give up BBQ.:banghead:

chasedude
04-25-2007, 03:14 PM
I think all Catholics should have the right to demand no meat served in restaurants or public school on Fridays during lent. :rolleyes:

This is insane….

Next I will not be able to cook a pork steak in my backyard because the smell may reach my neighbors yard.

I guess I should sell my grill and give up BBQ.:banghead:

We lose more personal freedom's everyday... It wouldn't surprise me if it came to this!!!

Natty_Light_Man
04-25-2007, 03:22 PM
What I eat and what religion I prefer to follow should not be impacted or impact others. I live in the US and follow the rules set forth by the US Constitution Bill of Rights, local , state and federal law.

If people do not like OUR way of living "Free" move......
:whip:

|Zach|
04-25-2007, 03:32 PM
I keep my way of life just fine....I am sure Natty Light man does as well.

Has a muslim ever dictated anything in your life? They sure haven't in mine.

crazycoffey
04-25-2007, 03:36 PM
I keep my way of life just fine....I am sure Natty Light man does as well.

Has a muslim ever dictated anything in your life? They sure haven't in mine.


I still must be misunderstanding, because the thread title from Natty was that muslims are changing our way of life.

couple posters are going far on this, not being able to cook pork? I'm not reading that from these newstories. The kid was a bully, "hate crime", no, but not cool either. I can choose my religion and my food, Muslims with different opinions don't dictate that.

But neither should my beliefs dictate what they do or believe.

Pitt Gorilla
04-25-2007, 03:37 PM
What is happening to Great USA. Our wonderful country... Is our freedom, our way of life, slipping away from us before our very eyes.
I'm pretty sure these incidents haven't impacted my freedom and "way of life" at all. How have they impacted yours?

Eleazar
04-25-2007, 03:39 PM
Has a muslim ever dictated anything in your life? They sure haven't in mine.

It's hard to make that point with a group that is such a minority in this particular country. If you lived in another part of the world and they had the power to control your life but did not, it would be valid.

Anyway, I don't see some foot-washing basin as a problem since it's passive. If you don't want to observe whatever the tradition is here, just ignore it. And if Muslims are going to try to wash their feet in a regular sink and you have a risk with personal injury, a liability issue, that I would consider protecting myself against that.

But if I'm not allowed to eat a ham sandwich in their presence, that's ridiculous. That isn't passive, it's invasive. Two totally different ballparks here.

crazycoffey
04-25-2007, 03:43 PM
It's hard to make that point with a group that is such a minority in this particular country. If you lived in another part of the world and they had the power to control your life but did not, it would be valid.

Anyway, I don't see some foot-washing basin as a problem since it's passive. If you don't want to observe whatever the tradition is here, just ignore it. And if Muslims are going to try to wash their feet in a regular sink and you have a risk with personal injury, a liability issue, that I would consider protecting myself against that.

But if I'm not allowed to eat a ham sandwich in their presence, that's ridiculous. That isn't passive, it's invasive. Two totally different ballparks here.


You're exactly right. But on the ham sandwich story, the kid (not muslim) threw the sandwich on a table with a few Somalian kids (who are muslim), with other kids standing by watching and cheering him (the non-muslim) on for being a bully. Now the kids realize they are different and have fear for other acts, because they are muslim.

StcChief
04-25-2007, 04:21 PM
N_L_M's point is they are chipping away at our American life being offended.....
No different than the Dutch Cartoons. offended them.

But if they attack us we can't be offended or are forced to do things for there culture.

Wash your feet at home. or your masque.

HolmeZz
04-25-2007, 04:47 PM
Only Christianity should be allowed to impact our way of life.

Brock
04-25-2007, 04:47 PM
Placing ham where Muslim students were eating was "an awful thing," said Stephen Wessler, executive director of the Center for Prevention of Hate Violence. "It's extraordinarily hurtful and degrading" to Muslims, whose religion prohibits them from being around ham. It's important to respond swiftly, Wessler said.

This guy is a ****ing moron.

listopencil
04-25-2007, 04:51 PM
A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"


It is a hate crime. Blame the morons who created "hate crimes" in the first place.

Brock
04-25-2007, 04:54 PM
who's the victim? what are their injuries?

If I lived in a muslim country I'd be murdered within hours for my religion.

Taco John
04-25-2007, 04:55 PM
There is no way in hell I'm going to leave the lunchroom to eat my swine sandwich. If you don't like it, then you go outside or somewhere else to eat... Not me. YOU.

I don't go into a cigar bar and complain about smoke getting in my eyes. Don't go into the lunchroom and complain about the lunch people are eating.

Taco John
04-25-2007, 04:57 PM
That said, I don't throw my cigar at non-smokers in the cigar bar either. If idiot kids are throwing ham sandwhiches because they think it's cool to antagonize muslims, the kids should be dealt with in a way that teaches them a lesson about their actions.

listopencil
04-25-2007, 05:00 PM
who's the victim? what are their injuries?

If I lived in a muslim country I'd be murdered within hours for my religion.


The kids were the victim. Their psyches were injured. That is the basis of "hate crime" legislation. For that matter, why start screaming now about victim-less crimes? This country has a rich history of prosecuting them and continues to do so today.

listopencil
04-25-2007, 05:01 PM
That said, I don't throw my cigar at non-smokers in the cigar bar either. If idiot kids are throwing ham sandwhiches because they think it's cool to antagonize muslims, the kids should be dealt with in a way that teaches them a lesson about their actions.


A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"

chagrin
04-25-2007, 05:01 PM
There is no way in hell I'm going to leave the lunchroom to eat my swine sandwich. If you don't like it, then you go outside or somewhere else to eat... Not me. YOU.

I don't go into a cigar bar and complain about smoke getting in my eyes. Don't go into the lunchroom and complain about the lunch people are eating.


Umm, i don't know who you are but, well said.

HolmeZz
04-25-2007, 05:04 PM
If the kids knew exactly what they were doing, I don't know how you defend them.

Taco John
04-25-2007, 05:04 PM
Umm, i don't know who you are but, well said.


It was well said, but the point is rather moot... These muslim kids weren't doing anything to infringe on anyone else's liberty. It appears that they were minding their own busines-- not trying to change the lunchroom dynamics of America.

listopencil
04-25-2007, 05:05 PM
Just to be clear: I think the "hate crime" construct is stupid. I also think it's funny when people twist around and try to deny it when it happens because the "victim" represents something that has become largely disliked.

Jenson71
04-25-2007, 05:57 PM
That's stupid of the kids to throw the bag on the table. They need a couple of after school detentions.

And the kid who's life has forever been changed because of the incident needs to get real. If his life is so good that this is the worst thing that's ever happened to him, then he should consider himself blessed. If he wants this to always be the one thing that he remembers when he thinks back to his middle school years, then that's his problem, not the mean kid who threw ham on his table.

And I personally have no problem if places start having a foot bath for Muslims to clean their feet with, if that's what the deal is.

Eleazar
04-25-2007, 06:06 PM
The kids throwing the sandwich should be punished, I think, for insulting them in an especially degrading way. But other than that... not really a story.

trndobrd
04-25-2007, 06:36 PM
A middle school student suspended for putting a lunch bag on a table containing a ham sandwich.





Not that I want the facts to get in the way of a good rant, but there is nothing in the story indicating that it was a ham sandwich that the kid put on the table.

From the story:

"A 14-year-old Somali boy, whose mother asked that his name not be published, said he was eating lunch with four other Somali students on April 11. He noticed many others in the cafeteria "standing up, looking at us."

One boy came near, began laughing and threw a bag on the table while other students laughed and said, 'Good job.'"

"We didn't know what was in this bag," the boy said. "One of my friends reached inside it. It was a big ham steak. There were five of us at the table, all Somali. It was intended for us."

The boy said he looked up at students he thought were his friends. "I felt angered, offended."


So unless your 'lifestyle' includes taunting, picking on, and trying to humiliate 14 year old kids, it really shouldn't be a problem. Since throwing hamsteaks on the table of muslim students is now off limits, I suppose throwing a bag full of fried chicken and watermelon on the lunch table of some black middle school kids would be a viable option.

ChiefaRoo
04-25-2007, 07:12 PM
We could Nuke Detroit.

NewChief
04-25-2007, 09:15 PM
Hate "crime" is ridiculous.

That being said, if the kid was trying to throw pork in their faces with the intention of insulting them because they're muslim, the kid needs to be punished just like any other bully. If some kid threw an effigy of Jesus and stomped on it in front of kids gathered for See You at the Pole or something, I'd be all over that kid as well. If this kid innocently tossed his lunch sack of ham down and was about to chow down, that's one thing. It's pretty clear that wasn't the case, though.


I'd imagine it was straight up and obvious anti-muslim sentiment from a school yard bully. Deal with that shit and nip it in the bud. Making this big of a deal out of it is stupid, though. It should have just been handled like any other discipline infraction.

Logical
04-25-2007, 09:18 PM
I am much more worried about the rights are government is infringing on in the name of protecting us from terrorism than these isolated incidents.

listopencil
04-25-2007, 10:39 PM
I suppose throwing a bag full of fried chicken and watermelon on the lunch table of some black middle school kids would be a viable option.

Nope. Also a "hate crime".

listopencil
04-25-2007, 10:52 PM
Just for fun:

SEC. 2. DIRECTION TO COMMISSION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Pursuant to section 994 of title 28, United States Code, the United States Sentencing Commission shall promulgate guidelines or amend existing guidelines to provide sentencing enhancements of not less than 3 offense levels for offenses that are hate crimes. In carrying out this section, the United States Sentencing Commission shall assure reasonable consistency with other guidelines, avoid duplicative punishments for substantially the same offense, and take into account any mitigating circumstances which might justify exceptions.

(b) DEFINITION- As used in this Act, the term `hate crime' is a crime in which the defendant's conduct was motivated by hatred, bias, or prejudice, based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation of another individual or group of individuals.

Passed the House of Representatives October 3, 1992.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c102:H.R.4797.EH:


We have to think of this in the context of a Junior High School setting where rules and regulations take the place of the laws that adult citizens must follow, and what constitutes a "crime". This can be construed as something incredibly simple. Freedom of speech doesn't exist in Junior High School, for instance.

Rausch
04-25-2007, 10:54 PM
We could Nuke Detroit.

While unpopular, likely the most constructive answer...

ChiefaRoo
04-25-2007, 10:58 PM
While unpopular, likely the most constructive answer...

;)

Pitt Gorilla
04-25-2007, 11:20 PM
Where are you folks getting "sandwich?"

Jenson71
04-25-2007, 11:26 PM
Where are you folks getting "sandwich?"

Either people don't read the story all the way, or the thread starter has a lot of influence.

Nightwish
04-25-2007, 11:46 PM
Explain this. From the same School. Yes, this is reducing our freedom while facilitating others.

Separation of church and state is clearest at the college during the Christmas season. A memo from Cusick and President Phil Davis, dated Nov. 28, 2006, exhorted supervisors to banish any public display of holiday cheer: "As we head into the holiday season ... "all public offices and areas should refrain from displays that may represent to our students, employees or the public that the college is promoting any particular religion." Departments considering sending out holiday cards, the memo added, should avoid cards "that appear to promote any particular religious holiday."...
What freedom of mine is being restricted in the above example? For that matter, where does the above example support the contention that supervisors were being "exhorted ... to banish any public display of holiday cheer?" I see only that it supports the contention (not made, by the way) that explicit endorsement of a specific religious version of the holiday, excluding any others, was forbade. But getting back to the point, what freedom of mine is being reduced? 'Cuz, honestly, I don't feel it. I'm pretty darn sure that I can walk into that school and say, "Merry Christmas," if I so desire, and walk out a free man.

Nightwish
04-25-2007, 11:49 PM
Where are you folks getting "sandwich?"
I'm not sure it's an important distinction, really. The presence or lack of bread isn't what made the gesture a perceived insult.