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dtrain
04-26-2007, 04:53 PM
Broncos | Holdman signed
Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:27:11 -0700

The Denver Broncos have announced they have signed unrestricted free-agent LB Warrick Holdman (Redskins). Terms of the contract were not disclosed.


Broncos | Lewis signed
Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:25:56 -0700

The Denver Broncos have announced they have signed unrestricted free-agent LB D.D. Lewis (Seahawks). Terms of the contract were not disclosed.

Where do they get all the cap space every year?

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2007, 05:07 PM
I doubt the Donks signed these guys to big contracts.

Ultra Peanut
04-26-2007, 05:08 PM
WARRICK HOLDMAN HAS BEEN INJURED!!!!! :eek:

Anyong Bluth
04-26-2007, 05:08 PM
Cheating the cap, just like they did when they won their SB. Cheating...

Simplex3
04-26-2007, 05:29 PM
Hell yeah. Last time they cheated the cap big they won the Super Bowl twice. It's not like the league is going to fine them or something.

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:33 PM
Cheating? Please... these are minor deals and the guys are camp fodder for the time being?

Simplex3
04-26-2007, 05:35 PM
Cheating? Please... these are minor deals and the guys are camp fodder for the time being?
So you had no inexpensive guys on the payroll when you were busy cheating the cap in the late 90's?

Yeah, and Ron Mexico had no idea about those 60 dogs at his house.

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:36 PM
Cheating... please... there was no cheating/circumventing of the cap, go back and read again exactly what it was they were penalized for doing.

Simplex3
04-26-2007, 05:38 PM
Cheating... please... there was no cheating/circumventing of the cap, go back and read again exactly what it was they were penalized for doing.
Being penalized for breaking a rule isn't cheating?

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:41 PM
Being penalized for breaking a rule isn't cheating?

Guys are penalized for uniform infractions (related to socks, jerseys tucked in, etc) ... are they cheating? They're breaking a rule.

Simplex3
04-26-2007, 05:42 PM
Guys are penalized for uniform infractions (related to socks, jerseys tucked in, etc) ... are they cheating? They're breaking a rule.
Yes. You can argue if they're gaining a competitive advantage, but they are cheating.

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:44 PM
Here you go...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7687802

NEW YORK (Sept. 16, 2004) -- The National Football League Management Council, the NFL Players Association, and the Denver Broncos have agreed to a resolution of a salary cap circumvention case involving an investigation into undisclosed agreements with certain Broncos players during the period of 1996-1998. The settlement will result in the Broncos losing their third-round pick in the 2005 NFL Draft and paying a fine of $950,000. In addition, while admitting no wrongdoing, an agent of a former Broncos player will pay $100,000 to charity. The settlement ends a Special Master proceeding under the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement that was initiated by the NFL Management Council in January of 2003 against the Broncos. The undisclosed agreements that formed the basis of the Management Council's disciplinary initiative, and ultimately the settlement between the Management Council and the Broncos, included 1) agreements with several Broncos players to defer salary payments with interest, and 2) an agreement with a former Broncos player not to waive the player prior to a certain date. Both types of agreements raised salary cap accounting issue. Following are comments by NFL Executive Vice President of Labor Relations Harold Henderson, who also serves as chairman of the NFL Management Council: "The investigation resulted in the discovery of undisclosed agreements between the club and Broncos players during the same period (1996-1998) pursuant to which various players agreed to defer certain compensation in exchange for a commitment to pay interest on the deferred amounts. These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver." "The investigation also uncovered an undisclosed 1997 commitment by the Broncos not to waive a player prior to a certain date. That commitment had the effect of converting the player's roster bonus into a guarantee, which affected the timing of the salary cap treatment of a portion of the bonus." "The individuals responsible for the violations are no longer with the team. The Broncos have been cooperative throughout the investigation and agreed on the settlement terms that we deemed satisfactory to resolve the dispute."

CoMoChief
04-26-2007, 05:46 PM
Guys are penalized for uniform infractions (related to socks, jerseys tucked in, etc) ... are they cheating? They're breaking a rule.


When you refer to jerseys do you mean greased up jerseys?

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:46 PM
Yes. You can argue if they're gaining a competitive advantage, but they are cheating.

I just posted something else for you ... but, breaking a uniform violation or doing a group celebration (which is now banned) are breaking the rules... but they're not cheating.

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:46 PM
When you refer to jerseys do you mean greased up jerseys?

Hmmm... I have no recollection of that, senator.

noa
04-26-2007, 05:49 PM
We signed Holdman first....5 years ago....and then the Bears matched our offer.....but we still signed him first!

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 05:52 PM
Oh - here's a follow up, essentially (as has been said a million times)... the issue was the "funding" piece, there was no competitive advantage for the Broncos.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1290495&type=news

Simplex3
04-26-2007, 05:54 PM
Oh - here's a follow up, essentially (as has been said a million times)... the issue was the "funding" piece, there was no competitive advantage for the Broncos.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1290495&type=news
Keeping players you couldn't otherwise afford isn't a competitive advantage. Got it.


Someone get Carl on the phone.

siberian khatru
04-26-2007, 05:56 PM
Keeping players you couldn't otherwise afford isn't a competitive advantage. Got it.



The difference is, they weren't doing it to win Super Bowls, they were doing it to fund a new stadium. The Super Bowls just kind of happened.

listopencil
04-26-2007, 06:03 PM
The Broncos are going to continue to spend money. They will probably spend as much as they can get away with. But go ahead and plug your mangina with sand because your FO doesn't do the same thing. It lets me drag out this old pic again:

scott free
04-26-2007, 06:11 PM
Holdman was a pretty good player at one point, but he's a walking surgery scar these days.

D.D. Lewis???...whatever, they'd be better off dragging the other D.D. Lewis out of retirement.

Nothing to worry about here.

shrek6849
04-26-2007, 06:20 PM
Talk about an inferiority complex.....

Mile High Mania
04-26-2007, 06:43 PM
These are just 'blip on the radar' signings...

Ultra Peanut
04-26-2007, 08:23 PM
Yes. You can argue if they're gaining a competitive advantage, but they are cheating.

UL Washington
04-27-2007, 08:45 AM
People can cry cheating the cap until they're blue in the face but my concern is why don't we sign anyone then? It's easy to rip down everything they do but at least they are aggressive about it and don't stand pat year after year.

jspchief
04-27-2007, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure why some Chiefs fans are envious of everything the Broncos FO does.

The only thing Pat Bowlen has accomplished since Elway's retirement is a carbon copy of Carl Peterson's 90s Chiefs.

Mile High Mania
04-27-2007, 09:10 AM
I'm not sure why some Chiefs fans are envious of everything the Broncos FO does.

The only thing Pat Bowlen has accomplished since Elway's retirement is a carbon copy of Carl Peterson's 90s Chiefs.

If only Carl could do that again...

jspchief
04-27-2007, 10:27 AM
If only Carl could do that again...I'm sure you think it's special right now, but I wonder if you were one of the Broncos fans that used to ridicule it.

One thing I do know is this board is full of Chiefs fans that consider the 90s a failure on that part of Peterson. If that's the case, I'm not sure why any of them would consider the Broncos of this decade a model for how to do things right.

Taco John
04-27-2007, 10:33 AM
Keeping players you couldn't otherwise afford isn't a competitive advantage. Got it.


It's really not...

Mile High Mania
04-27-2007, 11:10 AM
I'm sure you think it's special right now, but I wonder if you were one of the Broncos fans that used to ridicule it.

One thing I do know is this board is full of Chiefs fans that consider the 90s a failure on that part of Peterson. If that's the case, I'm not sure why any of them would consider the Broncos of this decade a model for how to do things right.

I've ridiculed the Chiefs' success in the 90s from the aspect of hearing "KC won more regular games in that decade". Little playoff success and no SBs.

Denver hasn't been to or won a SB since 1997... coming up on a decade now, but they've been consistently better than the rest of the AFCW teams since Elway retired. It was at the time of Elway's retirement that I was told that Denver would fall greatly and the rest of the AFCW teams would have more success. Every team has won the division since that time and OAK has lost a SB... but, Denver still has more regular season wins than any other team since Elway retired and they were one game from the SB.

Shanahan has kept the team competitive and only has 1 losing season in his tenure.

The bottom line is SBs and Denver hasn't been there for a while... the good thing is that they're competitive enough right now to get back. Will they do it this year? I don't know, but they have a realistic shot.

I'm not much into trends, but I hope this one continues... during my lifetime, Denver has been in the SuperBowl during the '77, '87 and '97 seasons... I hope they make it a 4th with '07.

I think some KC fans consider the 90s a failure b/c they won so many regular season games, yet they have nothing to show for it in the playoffs.

I don't know what the rankings are right now for teams with the most teams from 2000-2006, but I like knowing that Denver is going to be competitive every year. I just hope they fix what hurt them in 2006.

Mile High Mania
04-27-2007, 11:23 AM
If I'm missing one of the more dominant teams, let me know... but, here's a quick count on teams from 2000-2006. I think these are the only teams with 70+ wins...

Colts - 76 reg season wins (1 SB)
Pats - 75 reg season wins (3 SB)
Eagles - 75 reg season wins
Steelers - 72 reg season wins (1 SB)
Broncos - 70 reg season wins

---
Ravens - 67 reg season wins (1SB)
Rams - 65 reg season wins
Chiefs - 60 reg season wins
Bucs - 58 reg season wins (1 SB)
Bears - 58 reg season wins
*Chargers - 53 reg season wins
*Raiders - 48 reg season wins

jspchief
04-27-2007, 11:30 AM
If I'm missing one of the more dominant teams, let me know... but, here's a quick count on teams from 2000-2006. I think these are the only teams with 70+ wins...

Colts - 76 reg season wins (1 SB)
Pats - 75 reg season wins (3 SB)
Eagles - 75 reg season wins
Steelers - 72 reg season wins (1 SB)
Broncos - 70 reg season wins
Ravens - 67 reg season wins

---
Rams - 65 reg season wins
Chiefs - 60 reg season wins
Bucs - 58 reg season wins (1 SB)
Bears - 58 reg season wins

Yep, now do the Chiefs from 90-96 and you'll see what I mean by "carbon copy".

I'm not attacking Denver's success. I'm attacking Chiefs fans' infatuation with the way way Denver operates in the off-season over the last 4-5 years, when all it has done is produce the same results that these same fans claim was failure when Peterson did it in the 90s.

Mile High Mania
04-27-2007, 11:33 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you at all and I see your point. Denver fans have mocked the Chiefs of the 90s... and to a degree, the Broncos have a similar track record this decade.

So, we're now praising what we mocked about KC in the 90s and vice versa.

Sports is fun sometimes...

Quick edit... KC had 73 wins from 1990-1996 with another 29 to close out the decade. So, Denver is 3 wins behind that pace from a decade to decade comparison.

scott free
04-27-2007, 06:07 PM
People can cry cheating the cap until they're blue in the face but my concern is why don't we sign anyone then? It's easy to rip down everything they do but at least they are aggressive about it and don't stand pat year after year.

I hear what your saying UL, but bringing in a bunch of guys doesnt always amount to much.

The question is WHO are they bringing in??? They added a few solid players this year sure, Henry, Bly, Stokely...but the rest are journeymen.

We now have a 1st round talent at MLB, a proven All-Pro at OLB & a young vet LT who posted OUTSTANDING #'s last year.

We're not getting blown out of the water by any means.