PDA

View Full Version : And with the 23rd pick in the draft Bob Gretz selects..


Chiefnj
04-27-2007, 07:18 AM
Courtesty of our good friends and inside sources at kcchiefs.com

GRETZ: Possibilities At No. 1
Apr 27, 2007, 6:37:54 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ


Letís be honest here: thereís nothing more useless than a mock draft. Writers and pundits consider themselves doing a fantastic job if they can match 20 players with teams among the 32 picks. Most canít make half of the round lineup right. Since when is guessing worthy of an entire page in the daily fish wrap?

I donít bother. My exercise today is to try and take you into the war room and consider the options that will be faced Saturday afternoon when it comes time for the Chiefs to make the 23rd selection in the first round of the 2007 NFL Draft.

Iíve spent the better part of a month reading various draft reports, journals and stories about the top 100 to 150 players in this yearís group. I saw a few of them play last year during the college football season. Iíve talked to a few personnel people in the league that I trust for their opinions on several players.

And, Iíve asked no one, including the powers at Arrowhead, who they will or will not draft. Not that they would tell me anyway. Iím not going to be one of those pundits trying to blow smoke up about all the inside information Iíve been able to gather.

Iím guessing, just like everybody else. Hereís how I think it will go:

Trading Up
This is a pretty expensive proposition from the 23rd spot in the first round to make any real movement upwards. NFL teams use a value chart to make draft day deals, with each pick assigned a numerical value. Every teamís chart varies in some fashion, but most clubs use the one that was created by the Dallas Cowboys in the early 1990s.

In this chart, the 23rd pick is worth 760 points. To make a move to the 20th pick, which is worth 850 points, would take a trade that provided 90 points. To reach the 15th pick (1,050 points), would take 290 points. To get to the 10th pick (1,300) would take 540 points and to reach the fifth spot (1,700) would take 940 points.

Hereís the value of the Chiefs other draft choices as of Friday morning: 2nd round, 360 points; 3rd round, 180 points; 5th round, 32 and 28 points; 6th round, 14 points; 7th round, 2 points.

All of their picks wouldnít be enough to move the Chiefs from the 23rd spot to the fifth slot. It would likely cost them next yearís second round pick as well. To move from the 23rd pick to the 10th spot would cost the Chiefs Ė at minimum Ė their second and third round picks. To move from 23rd to 15th would cost them their third round pick and all of their second-day choices and that still probably wouldnít be enough.

The chances of Chiefs trading up Ė beyond jumping say a spot or two at the last minute Ė are slim. Remember, the Chiefs are trying to acquire picks. They want to do that so they can use them to select players.

Trading Down
Thereís a better chance of the Chiefs getting out of the 23rd spot and moving down. A drop to the 30th spot for instance, should bring them a 3rd round pick in exchange.

Since all the teams below the Chiefs are essentially post-season teams, they might be willing to give up a first-day pick to jump to No. 23 if they are after a certain player.

Plus, the Chiefs might provide a discount if their turn on the clock starts and thereís nobody there that screams, ďdraft me!Ē

Gone Quickly
By all accounts, thereís a group of 15 players that the Chiefs will not get a chance to draft. That group is: QBs JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn, RB Adrian Peterson, WR Calvin Johnson, OL Joe Thomas and Levi Brown, DL Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson, Adam Carriker, Amobi Okoye and Alan Branch, LB Patrick Willis, CBs Darrelle Revis and Leon Hall and S LaRon Landry.

Thereís another group of players that are likely to be among picks No. 16 through No. 22 or higher: WRs Ted Ginn and Robert Meachem, RB Marshawn Lynch, S Reggie Nelson, OL Ben Grubbs, LB Lawrence Timmons and DE Jarvis Moss.

Likely Player Pool
There should be a pool of nine or 10 players for the Chiefs to consider: OL Joe Staley, LBs Jon Beason and Paul Posluszny, TE Greg Olsen, WR Dwayne Bowe, CB Aaron Ross, S Michael Griffin and DT Justin Harrell.

Unless the Chiefs have valued them higher than most teams, discard Beason, Posluszny, Olsen and Griffin from our discussion, since they play positions that are not at the top of the Chiefs shopping list.

That leaves:

Staley, a tackle out of Central Michigan. He played 46 games, starting 39 for the Chippewas. He entered college as a tight end, moved to tackle and the last two seasons worked at left tackle. Heís very quick on his feet with a 40-yard dash time under 4.8 seconds and is an aggressive player.
Ross, a cornerback from Texas. He played in a remarkable 51 games at Texas, but started just 15 times on the corner. He had 11 career interceptions, and also was very effective as a punt return with three career TDs. Ross also handled some kickoff returns. Not considered skilled in coverage at this point, showing his lack of starts.
Harrell, a defensive tackle from Tennessee. He played only three games last year because of a bicep injury and other injuries limited his playing time for the Vols (35 games, 25 starts) over his career. He has good intangibles in things like leadership skills and maturity. Harrell played his final college game with his bicep injury taped up. Several days after that game he had surgery.
Bowe, a wide receiver from LSU. He played in 50 games at LSU, starting 30 and finishing with 154 catches, 2,403 yards and 236 TD passes. Not a burner, but heís a powerful 6-2 receiver with a strong upper body.
This manís opinion is that the choice comes down to Staley or Harrell. Staley could come in and probably start at right tackle for a year or two, before moving to the left side. With recent news of off-field problems for Chris Terry, Staley might be the right fit.

Harrell could be that guy as well, although his college resume is not quite what the Chiefs have been looking for in draft choices. They like players that have been on the field a lot, something thatís not the case with Harrell because of injuries. But the toughness that Harrell showed after suffering the injury is the type of player that Herm Edwards is trying to filter on to his roster.

Playing time is something that Bowe has, with his 50 games played and 30 starts in the SEC. Ross has 51 games at Texas, but only 15 starts.

If heís there, I think Staley is the guy. Heís got playing time and heís got athletic ability. Remember, the Chiefs once drafted another tackle that started his college career as a tight end. They used the 21st choice of the first round in 1984 to select John Alt out of Iowa. That pick provided the Chiefs with plenty of football with 179 games and two trips to the Pro Bowl for Alt.

But remember, thatís just a guess.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 07:20 AM
Great news.

If Gretz thinks Staley is the guy, the significantly reduces our chance of drafting him.

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 07:22 AM
Jesus Christ. Htismaqe won't like this.

And NO MENTION OF JARRETT?

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:27 AM
Boy I disagree with alot of what he said.......I'd be shocked if Ben Grubbs wasn't on the board when the Chiefs pick.

I don't like his listing of players either.....he played some favorites with his "list of players the Chiefs will choose from".

Personally I'd take Beason before I took Staley, I think Beason can be a pro bowl caliber MLB in the cover 2......something we'll need shortly Harris isn't any answer he's a quick stop gap.

Chiefnj
04-27-2007, 07:28 AM
Great news.

If Gretz thinks Staley is the guy, the significantly reduces our chance of drafting him.

Someone recently posted that Gretz called the Siavii pick.

Do you know what he predicted last year??

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 07:28 AM
I'm crossing my fingers we pick Staley just to see the total meltdown on here.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:30 AM
I'm crossing my fingers we pick Staley just to see the total meltdown on here.

Hey that's not nice.......

oldandslow
04-27-2007, 07:37 AM
I really am going to give Herm the benefit of the doubt here. He seems to know what he is doing with the draft. If they draft Staley, so be it. We need OL. Period.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:38 AM
If they really choose between those players he listed it better be Bowe or Beason.......I'd be highly annoyed with any of the others.

ct
04-27-2007, 07:39 AM
Boy I disagree with alot of what he said.......I'd be shocked if Ben Grubbs wasn't on the board when the Chiefs pick.

I don't like his listing of players either.....he played some favorites with his "list of players the Chiefs will choose from".

Personally I'd take Beason before I took Staley, I think Beason can be a pro bowl caliber MLB in the cover 2......something we'll need shortly Harris isn't any answer he's a quick stop gap.

I totally agree Mecca. His 1st list of 15 players is pretty solid, possible but pretty unlikely 1 or 2 of those guys slide. His next list I really dissagree with.

Thereís another group of players that are likely to be among picks No. 16 through No. 22 or higher: WRs Ted Ginn and Robert Meachem, RB Marshawn Lynch, S Reggie Nelson, OL Ben Grubbs, LB Lawrence Timmons and DE Jarvis Moss.

It's not a huge stretch to think nearly ALL of those players could be on the board @23, so to exclude them from his discussion makes his whole argument moot. Only Lynch is the one guy I think should have been on the 1st list, he'll almost certainly be gone. The other 6 easily could be passed over in those 7 choices from 16-22.

And if Beason is there, man you gotta take him.

Chiefnj
04-27-2007, 07:43 AM
When does Gosselin come out with his final mock so we know definitively who KC wants in the 1st?

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:45 AM
I just thought I'd point out Jarvis Moss is projected as a top of the 2nd rounder now......pulling him off the board before the Chiefs pick is laughable.

ChiTown
04-27-2007, 07:45 AM
I'm crossing my fingers we pick Staley just to see the total meltdown on here.

Meltdown? Are you serious?

I think we, as Chiefs fans, absolutely expect Carl to make the wrong pick. I'd be in total shock if he didn't.

Hell, I was raised on Chiefs disappointment. I'm the kid who spent Christmas Day watching the Dolphins beat us in 2 OT's......and thus it began.

PS - How many Hall of Famers were "involved" with that game? Anyone?

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 07:45 AM
I'm crossing my fingers we pick Staley just to see the total meltdown on here.

Have you ever seen me meltdown before when the Chiefs made stupid pick? There's been ample opportunities, because they've made a ton of them.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:47 AM
Have you ever seen me meltdown before when the Chiefs made stupid pick? There's been ample opportunities, because they've made a ton of them.

He wants Staley so he wants to see the meltdown while pointing at us and laughing and mocking us........

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 07:53 AM
There's gonna be some degree of meltdown no matter who we pick.

You've got guys for and against:

Staley
Jarrett
Meacham
Harrell
Bowe
Ginn
A CB period.

Chances are there will be a rather large group of pissed off people tomorrow afternoon.....

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 08:02 AM
He wants Staley so he wants to see the meltdown while pointing at us and laughing and mocking us........

It's all he's got left in the Staley argument.

boogblaster
04-27-2007, 08:05 AM
I've got 5 things to say...OL..OL..OL..OL..OL.....

TrickyNicky
04-27-2007, 08:06 AM
Is Grubbs worth over the conventional wisdom of not drafting a G in the 1st round? I've never seen him play.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:06 AM
I've got 5 things to say...OL..OL..OL..OL..OL.....

If we take Joe Staley I'm driving to your house and punching you in the nose.....and eazy b too.......and then I'll go Hamas Jenkins and break plates and coffee tables and shit.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:07 AM
Is Grubbs worth over the conventional wisdom of not drafting a G in the 1st round? I've never seen him play.

He's a really safe pick......he's played both G spots and some Center, he'll probably make some pro bowls. It's the 'safest" pick but he is a guard so that isn't really "high' return for a first rounder.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:10 AM
Is Grubbs worth over the conventional wisdom of not drafting a G in the 1st round? I've never seen him play.

If it came between using our R1 pick on Staley or Grubbs, I'd go Grubbs.

But there is going to be a lot of talent on the board at many positions come pick 23 tomorrow. I think it'd be hard for CP to pull the trigger on a guard with other options there.

He's the safest OL pick in our range, IMO.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:11 AM
If it came between using our R1 pick on Staley or Grubbs, I'd go Grubbs.

But there is going to be a lot of talent on the board at many positions come pick 23 tomorrow. I think it'd be hard for CP to pull the trigger on a guard with other options there.

He's the safest OL pick in our range, IMO.

I agree with that, Ben Grubbs I'm 99% sure his absolute worst will be a good starter, Staley's worst is like Trezelle Jenkins type bad.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:12 AM
I agree with that, Ben Grubbs I'm 99% sure his absolute worst will be a good starter, Staley's worst is like Trezelle Jenkins type bad.

You had to go and mention Jenkins?

Thanks for ruining my day.....


:p

TrickyNicky
04-27-2007, 08:15 AM
Sounds good. I wouldn't mind taking a safe pick.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 08:16 AM
I agree with that, Ben Grubbs I'm 99% sure his absolute worst will be a good starter, Staley's worst is like Trezelle Jenkins type bad.

By that line of thinking why don't we just take the kicker Medlock in the 1st? I mean he's almost assured of being a decent starter in this league.

There's no reason Staley can't be a top-shelf left tackle in this league. I get bragging rights for eternity when he goes to his first Pro Bowl.

NJ Chief Fan
04-27-2007, 08:16 AM
Dwayne Jarrett and thats my final answer.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 08:17 AM
By that line of thinking why don't we just take the kicker Medlock in the 1st? I mean he's almost assured of being a decent starter in this league.

There's no reason Staley can't be a top-shelf left tackle in this league. I get bragging rights for eternity when he goes to his first Pro Bowl.

You get bragging rights if he goes to the Pro Bowl THIS YEAR.

Nobody here is disagreeing that he's a good PROSPECT.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:18 AM
I don't like Staley because I don't think you take a project over polished players.......

ChiTown
04-27-2007, 08:20 AM
You get bragging rights if he goes to the Pro Bowl THIS YEAR.

Nobody here is disagreeing that he's a good PROSPECT.

Exactly.

I just don't think he's the right pick for the Chiefs in Round 1. That has been, and will be my contention.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:23 AM
Blargh........Grunhard is pimping Aaron Ross and Joe Staley as our picks with Ross being the #1 guy......

Then says he thinks we're trading down to get another 3rd.......

Why in the hell does EVERYONE think we're picking Aaron Ross?

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:29 AM
Blargh........Grunhard is pimping Aaron Ross and Joe Staley as our picks with Ross being the #1 guy......

Then says he thinks we're trading down to get another 3rd.......

Why in the hell does EVERYONE think we're picking Aaron Ross?

How are we trading down and still getting Ross? Unless we trade out of the First round, the best we could do would be a LATE third, after our old pick at 84.

Question for Mecca and Htismaqe:

If you're forced to choose between Staley and Ross who do you pick, and why?

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:31 AM
How are we trading down and still getting Ross?

Question for Mecca and Htismaqe:

If you're forced to choose between Staley and Ross who do you pick, and why?

My god that's like asking me if I'd rather smoke crack or shoot up.......

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:32 AM
My god that's like asking me if I'd rather smoke crack or shoot up.......

I know, that's why I asked it. Not an easy decision.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:34 AM
Well.......I think Staley is going to be a bust so I'll lean the other way even though I think it would be a shitty pick.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 08:39 AM
How are we trading down and still getting Ross? Unless we trade out of the First round, the best we could do would be a LATE third, after our old pick at 84.

Question for Mecca and Htismaqe:

If you're forced to choose between Staley and Ross who do you pick, and why?

I guess I'd rather have Ross.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 08:44 AM
You get bragging rights if he goes to the Pro Bowl THIS YEAR.

Nobody here is disagreeing that he's a good PROSPECT.
So he's not worthy of the 23rd pick if he misses the Pro Bowl this year but goes the year thereafter? That's some messed up logic.

I think you need to take a more long-term view of the situation rather than just focusing on next year. We are going to suck next year whether or not our 1st rounder starts from day 1.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:45 AM
Joe Staley is exactly the kind of pick that has burned the **** out of this organization time and time again. 3rd round prospect for a long time then he works out, nicely and all of the sudden he's in the 1st......the Chiefs should not take that player because it NEVER works out for them.

We need polished players that are ready to play with our early picks.

Chiefnj
04-27-2007, 08:48 AM
I'm not confident that the Chiefs coaching staff can develop Staley. If forced to choose between Staley and Ross, I'd go with Ross because he's more polished, can return, and I have some faith that Herm has a better eye for DB talent and would be able to develop a DB.

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:48 AM
I don't think we have to worry about getting stuck with Joe Staley. Herm is our head coach.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:48 AM
Joe Staley is exactly the kind of pick that has burned the **** out of this organization time and time again. 3rd round prospect for a long time then he works out, nicely and all of the sudden he's in the 1st......the Chiefs should not take that player because it NEVER works out for them.

We need polished players that are ready to play with our early picks.

Well, the good thing is that I doubt we have to worry about it.

The Teicher article this morning drove home the fact that they want guys who produced in college, not just had their stock rise because of workouts.

I'll go on record now and say Denver takes him, and that our DE's eat his ass up......

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:49 AM
Wait I have a question.....

If we pick a WR first will Eddie Kennison throw a fit? Last year when any other WR's were talked about being brought in he got all butt hurt and bitched that he was a #1 and we didn't need any........and then he asked for money......

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 08:51 AM
So he's not worthy of the 23rd pick if he misses the Pro Bowl this year but goes after year thereafter? That's some messed up logic.

I think you need to take a more long-term view of the situation rather than just focusing on next year. We are going to suck next year whether or not our 1st rounder starts from day 1.

You can't use hindsight to justify the worthiness of a pick.

Should Will Shields have been a 1st-round pick?

I don't like Staley because when the FOOTBALL was played, he was a concensus 3rd rounder. He got dominated at the Senior Bowl, and thanks to an incredible workout season, he vaulted into the 1st round.

He's got just as good a chance of NEVER developing into a starting tackle as he does developing into a perennial pro-bowler.

You place emphasis on measurables over past performance, raw talent over learned skill. I am the opposite.

This is the same argument you and I had last year about Tamba Hali, in reverse. How did that turn out?

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 08:52 AM
Well, the good thing is that I doubt we have to worry about it.

The Teicher article this morning drove home the fact that they want guys who produced in college, not just had their stock rise because of workouts.

I'll go on record now and say Denver takes him, and that our DE's eat his ass up......

You do realize he's only allowed one sack the last two years in college, right?

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:53 AM
Wait I have a question.....

If we pick a WR first will Eddie Kennison throw a fit? Last year when any other WR's were talked about being brought in he got all butt hurt and bitched that he was a #1 and we didn't need any........and then he asked for money......

Dammit man.....

First the Trezelle Jenkins reference and now this?

You are seriously bringing me down......

Guess now would be a good time to get ready for class before you bring up Eric Downing or Siavii......

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:53 AM
Uh oh someone is gonna bring up who I wanted last yea...

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:54 AM
You do realize he's only allowed one sack the last two years in college, right?

Central Michigan plays those heavyweights........

TrickyNicky
04-27-2007, 08:55 AM
If he bitched I'd post this on his locker:

"Kansas City Receiving - 06 Colts Game
REC YDS AVG TD LG
L. Johnson 5 29 5.8 0 13
K. Wilson 2 29 14.5 0 24
T. Gonzalez 4 25 6.3 1 9
D. Hall 2 12 6.0 0 6
M. Bennett 1 12 12.0 0 12
Team 14 107 7.6 1 24

Notice anyone MISSING Eddie?!"

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:55 AM
You do realize he's only allowed one sack the last two years in college, right?


And I believe 3 in the Senior Bowl against NFL-type competition.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=2117

Look at that schedule and tell us all the stud DL he faced last year.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 08:57 AM
I don't like Staley because when the FOOTBALL was played, he was a concensus 3rd rounder. He got dominated at the Senior Bowl, and thanks to an incredible workout season, he vaulted into the 1st round.

A. No, when the football was played, he allowed one sack over his last two years. His stock may have been much higher if he played for a big-time Big Ten or SEC team, but he went under the radar for awhile. That said, he has been a known name for over a year now in draft circles, he isn't a guy that just came out of nowhere.

B. We've gone round and round about what happened at the Senior Bowl. I don't feel like rehashing that argument now.

You place emphasis on measurables over past performance, raw talent over learned skill. I am the opposite.

This is the same argument you and I had last year about Tamba Hali, in reverse. How did that turn out?

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then!

:)

Braincase
04-27-2007, 08:57 AM
I want the best uninjured lineman with a GPA over 3.0.


Or Grubbs.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 08:58 AM
Central Michigan plays those heavyweights........

Big Ben, Randy Moss, and Asante Samuel say hi.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 09:01 AM
I'm not confident that the Chiefs coaching staff can develop Staley.

Yep.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3925473

Mecca
04-27-2007, 09:01 AM
A. No, when the football was played, he allowed one sack over his last two years. His stock may have been much higher if he played for a big-time Big Ten or SEC team, but he went under the radar for awhile. That said, he has been a known name for over a year now in draft circles, he isn't a guy that just came out of nowhere.

B. We've gone round and round about what happened at the Senior Bowl. I don't feel like rehashing that argument now.



Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then!

:)

Look man who did he face........if he faced no one giving up no sacks means shit. When projecting guys to the NFL you have to look at who they played.....if he played no NFL talent that stat is meaningless to me.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 09:02 AM
And I believe 3 in the Senior Bowl against NFL-type competition.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=2117

Look at that schedule and tell us all the stud DL he faced last year.

Anyone that watched the Senior Bowl saw that 2 of his sacks allowed were purely due to miscommunication along the line. That's what happens in an exhibition when you're playing with and against people you don't know.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 09:03 AM
Big Ben, Randy Moss, and Asante Samuel say hi.

A QB a WR and a Corner.........you are taking those positions on almost pure talent......

Not to mention the 2 that went 1st were considered 1st before any workouts, Samuel was a 4th that became a good player playing under the Patriots great coaching staff.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 09:03 AM
A. No, when the football was played, he allowed one sack over his last two years. His stock may have been much higher if he played for a big-time Big Ten or SEC team, but he went under the radar for awhile. That said, he has been a known name for over a year now in draft circles, he isn't a guy that just came out of nowhere.

Nobody said he came out of nowhere. His stock would have been higher if he played in the B10 or SEC because he would have faced better competition. It's a LEGITIMATE concern. And that's why he was a 2nd or 3rd round prospect and has been since before last season.

B. We've gone round and round about what happened at the Senior Bowl. I don't feel like rehashing that argument now.

Because rehashing what happened at the Senior Bowl doesn't serve your argument at all.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 09:04 AM
Look man who did he face........if he faced no one giving up no sacks means shit. When projecting guys to the NFL you have to look at who they played.....if he played no NFL talent that stat is meaningless to me.

You're wasting your time with this one.

You're dead right, but you're wasting your time.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 09:05 AM
What's with these Oline or nothing people? Is the Oline important to winning, yes. But not if you pick the ones that turn out to be bums because you overrated them......

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 09:05 AM
Look man who did he face........if he faced no one giving up no sacks means shit. When projecting guys to the NFL you have to look at who they played.....if he played no NFL talent that stat is meaningless to me.

Who did Roaf face when he was at Louisiana Tech? Who did Urlacher face at New Mexico? Who did Culpepper face at UCF?

I'm just not a huge believer in focusing on what school a player went to - if you can play, you can play, no matter what program you come from.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 09:06 AM
Pimp Ben Grubbs atleast he faced people and is proven to be a solid prospect.........if you wanna pimp Oline go with him.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 09:07 AM
A QB a WR and a Corner.........you are taking those positions on almost pure talent......

Not to mention the 2 that went 1st were considered 1st before any workouts, Samuel was a 4th that became a good player playing under the Patriots great coaching staff.

The point is they came from MAC schools and SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY, went on to become great NFL players.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 09:07 AM
Nobody said he came out of nowhere. His stock would have been higher if he played in the B10 or SEC because he would have faced better competition. It's a LEGITIMATE concern. And that's why he was a 2nd or 3rd round prospect and has been since before last season.



Because rehashing what happened at the Senior Bowl does serve your argument at all.

Let's keep in mind his stock would have been even higher had he played to the same level in the Big 10 as he did in the MAC.

There's a chance this guy would be a day 2 pick had he played for Michigan, USC, LSU. He might have gotten eaten alive.

We won't know until he actually faces some stiff competition.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 09:08 AM
Would you like to discuss all the workout players that vaulted themselves and sucked......

**** Herm picked one his name is Dewayne Robertson.....

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 09:10 AM
Nobody said he came out of nowhere. His stock would have been higher if he played in the B10 or SEC because he would have faced better competition. It's a LEGITIMATE concern. And that's why he was a 2nd or 3rd round prospect and has been since before last season.

You're damn right it's a legitimate concern, but it's not like it's unheard of for a MAC kid to go on and be successful in the NFL. There are going to be concerns about anyone available at 23, unless you just want to go with a safe, low-upside pick - even then, nothing is for certain.

Because rehashing what happened at the Senior Bowl does serve your argument at all.

Nah, it's just because we've gone over it so many times, no one is going to change their opinion at this point.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 09:11 AM
Who did Roaf face when he was at Louisiana Tech? Who did Urlacher face at New Mexico? Who did Culpepper face at UCF?

I'm just not a huge believer in focusing on what school a player went to - if you can play, you can play, no matter what program you come from.

There's no proof he CAN play. Only that we can WORKOUT.

Chiefnj
04-27-2007, 09:15 AM
Anyone that watched the Senior Bowl saw that 2 of his sacks allowed were purely due to miscommunication along the line. That's what happens in an exhibition when you're playing with and against people you don't know.


To be fair, the only miscommunication was on his part. He let the DE go completely unblocked. Quite bizzare since there was no blitzing allowed.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 09:19 AM
There's no proof he CAN play. Only that we can WORKOUT.

Allowing one sack over two years at left tackle in high D1 football isn't proof that he can play ball? Wow, tough crowd.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 09:21 AM
If this was in the Pac 10 or Sec or something like that then I'd be more impressed.......

You know Bryant McKinnie didn't give up any sacks in college at Miami......and he isn't that good in the NFL.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 09:23 AM
Allowing one sack over two years at left tackle in high D1 football isn't proof that he can play ball? Wow, tough crowd.

In the MAC. He didn't face premiere players week in and week out.

Like I said, he's a great prospect in the 2nd or 3rd round. The only thing that changed that was his workouts, and to me, that's not enough to justify taking him in the first.

HemiEd
04-27-2007, 09:25 AM
Have you ever seen me meltdown before when the Chiefs made stupid pick? There's been ample opportunities, because they've made a ton of them.

My first two drafts have been pretty good on here. DJ and Hali!

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 10:45 AM
My first two drafts have been pretty good on here. DJ and Hali!

That's true. You weren't here during the "lean" years of Roadgrader and Snoop...

HemiEd
04-27-2007, 11:07 AM
That's true. You weren't here during the "lean" years of Roadgrader and Snoop...

I was off pouting on my own. However, I did include DV and Trent in to the mix, since we had to spend our high picks on them. They were still a piss poor drafts though, I can imagine this place reflected it.

MY single biggest "WTF, Dammit Carl" moment ever, was when we drafted Kris Wilson. I was going around the office murmuring to myself, and nobody knew what the heck I was talking about. (Bears fans)

chiefqueen
04-27-2007, 11:51 AM
Ding Dongs, but only because Whitlock took the Twinkies, and Ryan Simms took the Ho-Ho's before him.

(Sorry to hi-jack but I couldn't resist).:p

Mr. Laz
04-27-2007, 12:23 PM
actually one of Gretz's better articles

he takes a little whining shot at the beginning but at least he spends the rest of the article ACTUALLY TALKING SPORTS.

normally he just cries and pimps the Chiefs front office about something.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2007, 12:36 PM
now I'm convinced Eric Wright will be the Chiefs 1st rounder since their is no mention of him