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View Full Version : Teicher - 4/27: Let's go to the tape


OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 07:41 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/160/story/85747.html

Team focuses more on how a player performed in college than at combine or workouts.


By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

In choosing Tamba Hali and Bernard Pollard with their first two draft picks last year, the Chiefs went with a tested formula.

They selected college playmakers despite signs that could have chased the Chiefs away from both players. Hali, a defensive end, was considered by some to be too small. He performed poorly in his predraft workouts.

Pollard was thought by many to be too slow to play safety. But the Chiefs made their decision mostly on what they saw of Hali and Pollard in their college games.

They were rewarded for that. Hali and Pollard are part of what could be the best Chiefs draft in 10 years.

Hali, Pollard, quarterback Brodie Croyle and safety Jarrad Page are draft picks from last season who could start this year. Another of last year’s rookies, Jeff Webb, could earn playing time.

Just as important, it gives the Chiefs hope that this year’s draft will provide them as much help, if not more.

“It looks like they’re going back to doing what teams should do, and that’s taking football players,” said former NFL scout Russ Lande, who runs a draft service at www.gmjr.com.

“They didn’t pay attention to a lot of the other stuff that happened. Hali got killed because he’s not as tall as you’d like and isn’t as big as you’d like and didn’t run fast. Pollard got killed because he doesn’t run real well. But they’re good football players.

“Pollard made perfect sense. The Chiefs needed a hitter who could do stuff in coverage, too. He’s one of the few who can.”

The new voices in the Chiefs’ draft room last year were those of coach Herm Edwards and personnel director Bill Kuharich. Edwards joined the Chiefs from the New York Jets. Kuharich had been with the Chiefs since 2000 but previously wasn’t involved in draft preparations.

Edwards likes to draft defensive backs. He picked them in large numbers when he coached the Jets, and the Chiefs selected three, including cornerback Marcus Maxey, last year.

Edwards also advocated the idea of finding players who would fit the Chiefs’ systems.

“For me, it’s real simple,” Edwards said. “The more tape you can evaluate, the better understanding you’ll have of whether the player can do what you’re going to ask him to do. When you look at (Hali and Pollard), it was real simple for us. One guy is a defensive lineman who (plays hard), will run around and hit people. The other guy’s in the secondary, and we feel he can have a presence back there.

“They might have been a step short. Maybe they weren’t as tall as some other guys. Maybe they didn’t run the 40 as fast as some other guys. But they played the game very, very fast, and they played against good opponents, and we felt when they came in here, with what we were going to ask them to do, they were going to fit.”

Kuharich said: “One thing that Herm has done a great job of is educating our scouts about exactly what’s going to be taught, what defense is going to be used, what they’re going to ask (players) to do. That gives our scouts when they go out on the road a better handle on either what grade to give a guy or maybe eliminating some guys because they don’t feel he can do the things that are going to be taught here.”

Kuharich was the boss of the Saints’ draft when he was general manager in New Orleans in the middle and late 1990s. Results of those drafts were mixed, but Kuharich was responsible for the selection of several eventual Pro Bowlers, including offensive tackle Willie Roaf.

The Chiefs in recent years strayed from the idea of using a player’s college play as the base for the scouting report. Former defensive tackle Junior Siavii, their highest pick in 2004, accomplished little in college but turned in great workouts at the NFL’s annual predraft scouting combine.

Kuharich helped pulled the Chiefs back. That’s why they drafted Hali in the first round even though his slow 40-yard dash time of 4.86 scared off some other teams.

“That worked in our favor,” Kuharich said. “If Tamba Hali had run a 4.7, he would have never reached us. We had a concern. But in his initial step off the ball, getting the edge on an (offensive) tackle, turning the corner, those are things we really factored in.

“Everybody gets caught up in the Senior Bowl or the combine or the pro workouts. All of those things are a piece of the puzzle as you’re evaluating them, but at the end of the day, you’d better go back to the 13 games they played or the 12 games.””

That’s what the Chiefs did last year even in the late rounds. Webb, a sixth-round pick, caught 92 passes and scored 10 touchdowns as a senior at San Diego State.

Page, a seventh-round choice, started for four seasons at UCLA.

“Webb was a guy a lot of people really didn’t think much of when you watched him work out,” Lande said. “But when you watch him on film, he’s a highly productive guy. He caught a ton of passes. They didn’t write him off because he maybe didn’t look the part and wasn’t a great workout guy.

“A lot of people didn’t like Jarrad Page, but he was a four-year starter at UCLA. In the seventh round, that has to count for something. So the Chiefs did a good job of getting back to what’s important. They didn’t bring in other guys who weren’t great players and believe they could make them great players.”

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:43 AM
Well that puts Dwayne Jarrett and Jon Beason(provided he's there) at the top of our board then....those guys were very productive. Hell Jarrett has been productive since he was a true freshman.

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 07:45 AM
This board will go ballistic if the Chiefs select a linebacker in the 1st.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:47 AM
This board will go ballistic if the Chiefs select a linebacker in the 1st.

Nah Beason will be a star, I have no issue taking a player like that.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 07:50 AM
This board will go ballistic if the Chiefs select a linebacker in the 1st.

Not me.

eazyb81
04-27-2007, 07:53 AM
Not me.

Aren't you the one advocating picking a player that will start immediately? Do you really think Beason will start from day 1 over Harris?

Mecca
04-27-2007, 07:55 AM
I think that's very possible.....Jon Beason is a freak from the U....guy can play. Remember DJ Williams? I think he's better than DJ.

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 07:56 AM
Aren't you the one advocating picking a player that will start immediately? Do you really think Beason will start from day 1 over Harris?

It's absolutely possible.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 07:59 AM
I think the Beason talk might be all-for-naught.

He'll be gone before 20, IMO.

I'd be fine with taking him if he's there, though.

BPA.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:00 AM
I think the Beason talk might be all-for-naught.

He'll be gone before 20, IMO.

I'd be fine with taking him if he's there, though.

BPA.

I've heard some talk of the Bills really liking him, but if he goes by them and Carolina then there's a pretty good chance he makes it to us.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2007, 08:03 AM
I've heard some talk of the Bills really liking him, but if he goes by them and Carolina then there's a pretty good chance he makes it to us.


Those are the two teams I see him going to.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd go Carolina.

the Talking Can
04-27-2007, 08:14 AM
Kuharich said: “One thing that Herm has done a great job of is educating our scouts about exactly what’s going to be taught, what defense is going to be used, what they’re going to ask (players) to do. That gives our scouts when they go out on the road a better handle on either what grade to give a guy or maybe eliminating some guys because they don’t feel he can do the things that are going to be taught here.”

I like to hear that. You know DV wasn't doing that.

the Talking Can
04-27-2007, 08:15 AM
This board will go ballistic if the Chiefs select a linebacker in the 1st.

why?

we have a stop gap and an old guy at two positions...

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:17 AM
Those are the two teams I see him going to.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd go Carolina.

Well I expect the Bills to take Willis.......Carolina could go alot of ways....They need a Tackle a Tight end a Safety, there's alot of things there.

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:22 AM
I think that's very possible.....Jon Beason is a freak from the U....guy can play. Remember DJ Williams? I think he's better than DJ.

DJ Williams isn't even that good.

6-foot, 225-pound linebacker? No thanks. I don't care what his 40 is.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:24 AM
Cover 2 is about undersized fast players........

Did you ever see Beason he runs like crazy and makes plays all over the field.

By the way, he's 6' 237.

the Talking Can
04-27-2007, 08:26 AM
DJ Williams isn't even that good.

6-foot, 225-pound linebacker? No thanks. I don't care what his 40 is.

wasn't Edwards around that weight when he played for us first?

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:26 AM
wasn't Edwards around that weight when he played for us first?

Yeah but at least he's not a midget.

I HATE midgetbackers. Especially if they have to get downfield in any type of coverage.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:27 AM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/olb/jonbeason.html

Look at that......non stop motor.....excellent intangibles...is a leader, isn't this what you want in a MLB?

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:29 AM
Look at his weaknesses. He sounds like Kawika Mitchell on a diet...

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:30 AM
Dude did you read the last thing? "Has everything you want in a LB other than ideal height".

Dude he's the anti Kawika, Beason is a guy who has always produced and been a legit player. Mitchell was taken on potential from a no name school cause he worked out well.

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:31 AM
I don't care. We don't need to draft a middle linebacker right now. Maybe in a couple years...

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:33 AM
Another guy I really like I think we should be looking at in the 3rd/4th round area....

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ilb/busterdavis.html

I'm not sure what Nap Harris is going to be I like taking a MLB at some point this year, Harris is very injury prone.

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:36 AM
Jesus...five-foot-nine???!?!

Can he punt?

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:37 AM
Jesus...five-foot-nine???!?!

Can he punt?

Zach Thomas is 5'9.........he sucks too eh?

Buster Davis is all over the field and makes plays did you ever see FSU's defense?

Count Zarth
04-27-2007, 08:41 AM
Zach Thomas is 5'9.........he sucks too eh?

Buster Davis is all over the field and makes plays did you ever see FSU's defense?

Zach Thomas is 5'11, AND he doesn't play in a cover 2. He's a downhill-style MLB. I don't mind midgetbackers in that role. Kawika excelled in it.

Brock
04-27-2007, 08:42 AM
Kawika never excelled at anything.

Mecca
04-27-2007, 08:43 AM
I'm pretty certain we need to draft a guy who can play MLB at some point Nap Harris hasn't played 16 games in awhile.

Mr. Laz
04-27-2007, 08:50 AM
as long as we get quality,talented players i don't much care what position we take.

this isn't about this year ...... it's about raising the talent level of the team.

Tribal Warfare
04-27-2007, 09:20 AM
This board will go ballistic if the Chiefs select a linebacker in the 1st.


I wouldn't

Sure-Oz
04-27-2007, 09:54 AM
as long as we get quality,talented players i don't much care what position we take.

this isn't about this year ...... it's about raising the talent level of the team.
Building this team rather than getting older each year is fine by me

htismaqe
04-27-2007, 10:43 AM
as long as we get quality,talented players i don't much care what position we take.

this isn't about this year ...... it's about raising the talent level of the team.

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Cochise
04-27-2007, 10:47 AM
I love watching these arguments about players that the argumentors probably never saw play or only saw once or twice, and consist mostly of googling stuff and then acting like you knew it already...

TrickyNicky
04-27-2007, 10:51 AM
^^^ Heh, shows how much you know. I use Ask.com and still get it wrong...