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View Full Version : Is it better not to take Miami's 6th?


CrazyHorse
04-29-2007, 02:50 PM
If we cut Green do we get a compensatory pick.

Not sure on the requirements for compensatory picks. But if so, it seems like we are better off to keep him than let him go for a 6th.

htismaqe
04-29-2007, 02:52 PM
I would imagine the league would consider him a backup up at this point, so we wouldn't get a decent pick for him. :(

Valiant
04-29-2007, 02:54 PM
i think we would get a better compensation pick then what Miami could offer us... Should be a 4-5th rounder, hopefully a 3rd but it will never happen since he got hurt last year...

blueballs
04-29-2007, 02:59 PM
The Dolphins are laughing stock

Mecca
04-29-2007, 03:01 PM
Compensation would have to do with how much money he got and how he played......I doubt we'd get much.

Mile High Mania
04-29-2007, 03:04 PM
Carl was doing a deal with one of the ESPN guys and said Trent was the starter if the season started tomorrow... I think he's somewhat freaked about not being able to trade Trent.

LTforMVP
04-29-2007, 03:13 PM
You dont get compensation picks for players that are released or traded.

They are only given out for unrestrictred free agents that sign with another team.

Priestgets30TDs
04-29-2007, 03:26 PM
Wouldn't it be restricted free agents?

Phobia
04-29-2007, 03:55 PM
Wouldn't it be restricted free agents?

No, that's something completely different. If another team offers a contract to one of your RFA's that you elect not to match you get whatever you spent on him in the draft unless you tender him at a higher value.

Deberg_1990
04-29-2007, 03:57 PM
Wont we have to pay him like 7 mil if we keep him past June 1st?? No way we pay him that.

buddha
04-29-2007, 04:32 PM
It is Miami who is over a barrell in this situation, not KC. Giving up Green, even at this point in his career, for a 6th round pick is ludicrous. Why bother? We can afford to wait things out because Miami is in a world of hurt right now at QB. They have Cleo Lemmons, the new BYU QB, and the big, fat stiff Culpepper (who still hasn't rehabbed himself after TWO years!).

We should jack the asking price up to a third rounder starting tomorrow morning and never look back.

Screw Miami.

bigbucks24
04-29-2007, 04:50 PM
It is Miami who is over a barrell in this situation, not KC. Giving up Green, even at this point in his career, for a 6th round pick is ludicrous. Why bother? We can afford to wait things out because Miami is in a world of hurt right now at QB. They have Cleo Lemmons, the new BYU QB, and the big, fat stiff Culpepper (who still hasn't rehabbed himself after TWO years!).

We should jack the asking price up to a third rounder starting tomorrow morning and never look back.

Screw Miami.
How about this for a scenerio. You have a car. It's not a good car, but it's a car. You go down to the dealer for a new car (well, it's not really new. It's actually pretty old. And the engine might be blown, you aren't sure).
He says, "Buy this car for $10,000."
You say "I won't pay you more than $6,000."
The dealer says, "OK. How about $8,000."
You say, "No. I will only pay $6,000."
The dealer says, "You have to have this car. You have no choice. The last customer paid $8,000 so $8,000 is a fair price. Pay it or you don't get the car."
You say, "I won't pay more than $6,000."
The dealer says, "Fine. The new price is $9,000."

Now, you don't get the car and the dealer doesn't get the sale. But did it do any good at all to jack the price up at the end? In the end, no one goes away happy. The dealer is still sitting with an old car with a possible blown engine and the customer is stilll without a good car.

It's probably best that you keep your QB with the health issues and possible attitude issues and we keep our poor QB's. Are we making a playoff run? Not a chance. Then again, not a chance with Trent (and LJ and Tony G. for that matter). Could we go 4-12 this year with Cleo and Beck as our starters? Probably a pretty good chance of it. Would we have gone any better than 6-10 or 7-9 with Trent. Doubt it. I can understand Carl's position and Randy's position. I guess we both move on.

Phobia
04-29-2007, 05:46 PM
Wont we have to pay him like 7 mil if we keep him past June 1st?? No way we pay him that.

No. If he's on the active roster for the season opener his salary becomes guaranteed.

morphius
04-29-2007, 06:11 PM
I don't think you give up a QB to another team in the AFC for what is most likely a practice squad player, if he is even that lucky. Especially when you can get a 5th rounder for a kick returner.

Seriously, if we are going to cut him I think we don't drop him until after June 1st, so that they are forced to try to fit all of Trent's training in after all of the mini camps are done. Sure we wouldn't get anything for him, but we would put Miami pretty far behind to prove a point.

tk13
04-29-2007, 06:28 PM
If we don't have to cut him I'd keep him. Carl played this thing like he was supposed to. I thought all along that Carl originally said a 2nd, Miami said a 6th, and logic dictated they'd meet in the middle in the 4th round, that's what negotiation is. Carl did it right on his end, and Miami just didn't do anything, so screw them. I'd really rather Carl not budge below the 4th rounder, although I could see them meeting at a 5th rounder next year.

stlchiefs
04-29-2007, 09:12 PM
How about this for a scenerio. You have a car. It's not a good car, but it's a car. You go down to the dealer for a new car (well, it's not really new. It's actually pretty old. And the engine might be blown, you aren't sure).
He says, "Buy this car for $10,000."
You say "I won't pay you more than $6,000."
The dealer says, "OK. How about $8,000."
You say, "No. I will only pay $6,000."
The dealer says, "You have to have this car. You have no choice. The last customer paid $8,000 so $8,000 is a fair price. Pay it or you don't get the car."
You say, "I won't pay more than $6,000."
The dealer says, "Fine. The new price is $9,000."

Now, you don't get the car and the dealer doesn't get the sale. But did it do any good at all to jack the price up at the end? In the end, no one goes away happy. The dealer is still sitting with an old car with a possible blown engine and the customer is stilll without a good car.

It's probably best that you keep your QB with the health issues and possible attitude issues and we keep our poor QB's. Are we making a playoff run? Not a chance. Then again, not a chance with Trent (and LJ and Tony G. for that matter). Could we go 4-12 this year with Cleo and Beck as our starters? Probably a pretty good chance of it. Would we have gone any better than 6-10 or 7-9 with Trent. Doubt it. I can understand Carl's position and Randy's position. I guess we both move on.

Factors you left out:
1. You've never tried to start the car you have. You don't even know if it'll run.
2. There are no other dealers from which to buy a car. You want a car that will start, you buy from the one dealer in town with a car to sell.

Now if you are willing to take the car you have and risk having to push it around if it doesn't start, I'm sure the dealer is willing to sit on his car and eat the small loss he may take.

bigbucks24
04-29-2007, 09:20 PM
Factors you left out:
1. You've never tried to start the car you have. You don't even know if it'll run.
2. There are no other dealers from which to buy a car. You want a car that will start, you buy from the one dealer in town with a car to sell.

Now if you are willing to take the car you have and risk having to push it around if it doesn't start, I'm sure the dealer is willing to sit on his car and eat the small loss he may take.
Well, we know it will run.....we just don't know how well. Well enough to win any races? That remains to be seen. Both teams had reasons to make the trade....but neither team was desparate. Both teams had the ability to not make the deal. That's where the standoff was. We may still get a deal done, for a pick next year. But I doubt it will be a 3rd like some people on here are wanting.

bigbucks24
04-29-2007, 09:25 PM
If we don't have to cut him I'd keep him. Carl played this thing like he was supposed to. I thought all along that Carl originally said a 2nd, Miami said a 6th, and logic dictated they'd meet in the middle in the 4th round, that's what negotiation is. Carl did it right on his end, and Miami just didn't do anything, so screw them. I'd really rather Carl not budge below the 4th rounder, although I could see them meeting at a 5th rounder next year.
So all negotiations are about meeting in the middle? All negoations are about both sides compromising? What if Arizona wanted to trade you Edge to be your back-up to LJ. They are asking for a 1st. You say Edge is old as dirt and won't be around for more than a year...we'll give you a 7th. Does this mean you HAVE to settle on a 4th? Edge isn't worth a 4th...everyone knows that. If you feel like Edge is worth no more than a 7th, why would you "negotiate" to a 4th?

stlchiefs
04-29-2007, 09:26 PM
I don't think anybody expects a 3rd. Many would love a 3rd. Most think a 4th or 5th would be fair. A 6th is low and a 7th is just a pity pick. The Snowflakes didn't have a 5th so a 4th is what was fair this year. Now how it goes down, who knows, usually teams get one round higher than they would in the current years draft or the addition of a 6th or 7th.

I just hope Trent can get his equipment back from Miami :)

bigbucks24
04-29-2007, 09:32 PM
I don't think anybody expects a 3rd. Many would love a 3rd. Most think a 4th or 5th would be fair. A 6th is low and a 7th is just a pity pick. The Snowflakes didn't have a 5th so a 4th is what was fair this year. Now how it goes down, who knows, usually teams get one round higher than they would in the current years draft or the addition of a 6th or 7th.

I just hope Trent can get his equipment back from Miami :)
That part is kinda weird, isn't it? Then again, it's only a rumor that they sent his stuff to Miami.

I've got nothing against Trent. He's a class guy and a has been a great QB for the Chiefs. I've been in KC for 4 years and have enjoyed watching him. I think he would be a great mentor of Beck and upgrade our QB position. However, like any of you, I don't want to give up good draft picks. Do I want something for nothing? YES! But so do you. We are rebuilding just like you and need all the draft picks we can get. Were we NE or Indy or Balt or someone making a run, I could see it. We suck worse than you. Why would we want to give up draft picks for a 1 or 2 year stop gap when we already suck?

tk13
04-29-2007, 09:35 PM
So all negotiations are about meeting in the middle? All negoations are about both sides compromising? What if Arizona wanted to trade you Edge to be your back-up to LJ. They are asking for a 1st. You say Edge is old as dirt and won't be around for more than a year...we'll give you a 7th. Does this mean you HAVE to settle on a 4th? Edge isn't worth a 4th...everyone knows that. If you feel like Edge is worth no more than a 7th, why would you "negotiate" to a 4th?
No, obviously not. You're being a bit too literal. It just works in this particular instance. Steve McNair was traded last year for a 4th, both sides started where a 4th round pick was right in the middle. It just seemed like the logical thing to do. I don't think Carl should budge too far from a 4th, if Miami doesn't think he's worth that, then let's keep him. Then again Miami didn't have a 5th this year... so who knows. Miami's shown this weekend they might not have the best value-judgment skills anyway.

bigbucks24
04-29-2007, 09:49 PM
No, obviously not. You're being a bit too literal. It just works in this particular instance. Steve McNair was traded last year for a 4th, both sides started where a 4th round pick was right in the middle. It just seemed like the logical thing to do. I don't think Carl should budge too far from a 4th, if Miami doesn't think he's worth that, then let's keep him. Then again Miami didn't have a 5th this year... so who knows. Miami's shown this weekend they might not have the best value-judgment skills anyway.
Keep in mind, value is what you can get for someone....not what you think they are worth. Trent and his $7.2 million contract have very little value--even though the Chiefs think he does. Because he won't renegotiate with anyone (including the Chiefs from what I have heard), he only has value to the Phins.

I also don't believe you establish your price depending on what others did. Just because other overpaid (in your opinion) does not mean that you have to. And keep in mind that McNair was 3 1/2 years younger when he was aquired and for a lower 4th round pick.

Lastly, I'm not sure the Phins screwed the pooch on the draft pick. They spent more time with Brady Quinn than anyone and came away thinking Beck was better. Had they not done their due diligence with him or just taken him to dinner (LOL), I might agree. But Shea was the one that was working him our before his pro day so I get the feeling we knew a lot about him. I guess we'll see.

morphius
04-29-2007, 09:54 PM
Keep in mind, value is what you can get for someone....not what you think they are worth. Trent and his $7.2 million contract have very little value--even though the Chiefs think he does. Because he won't renegotiate with anyone (including the Chiefs from what I have heard), he only has value to the Phins.

I also don't believe you establish your price depending on what others did. Just because other overpaid (in your opinion) does not mean that you have to. And keep in mind that McNair was 3 1/2 years younger when he was aquired and for a lower 4th round pick.

Lastly, I'm not sure the Phins screwed the pooch on the draft pick. They spent more time with Brady Quinn than anyone and came away thinking Beck was better. Had they not done their due diligence with him or just taken him to dinner (LOL), I might agree. But Shea was the one that was working him our before his pro day so I get the feeling we knew a lot about him. I guess we'll see.
I believe he has worked out a contract with Miami.

bigbucks24
04-29-2007, 10:06 PM
I believe he has worked out a contract with Miami.
You are correct, I believe. I meant to say,

Because he won't renegotiate with anyone except the Dolphins....

My bad.