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View Full Version : What a s**t-stirrer Adam Teicher is


BigRock
04-30-2007, 01:16 AM
His latest masterpiece at the Star:

http://www.kansascity.com/159/story/88739.html

The first lines:

The door might be open for veteran quarterback Trent Green to return to the Chiefs, but he doesn’t intend to use it.

After the Chiefs failed to trade Green to the Miami Dolphins during the weekend draft, agent Jim Steiner said Green wasn’t interested in playing for the Chiefs.

The quote from Trent's agent.

“Trent’s not going to be returning,” Steiner said. “They’ve said Brodie Croyle is going to be the No. 1 or No. 2 quarterback. They brought back Damon Huard. They’ve told Trent they want to get younger. So the Chiefs determined that, not Trent."

So you've got Trent's dickhead agent saying that THE CHIEFS decided Trent wouldn't be back when they re-signed Huard and all that. How does Teicher report it? "Trent Green doesn't want to play for Kansas City". That's not what the agent said. He's saying Kansas City doesn't want Trent.

This guy blows. I miss Ivan Carter. :(

keg in kc
04-30-2007, 01:23 AM
Reads to me as an agent using the Star as a platform to pressure the Chiefs on behalf of Miami. This could cause Teicher problems on his beat, if the Chiefs are actually trying to get something for him. He's cutting them off at the knees.

Count Zarth
04-30-2007, 01:26 AM
Teicher's been ragged on before by the Chiefs. The have no respect for the local media.

keg in kc
04-30-2007, 01:28 AM
I know Bob Moore's purportedly a douche. This is going pretty far out on a limb on Teicher's behalf, though.

ChiefFan31
04-30-2007, 01:30 AM
As previously stated in another thread. Green's agent just needs to STFU

Have him bitch at Miami for not budging on lowballing us and trying to use the timetable against us.

Tribal Warfare
04-30-2007, 01:32 AM
trade him to Chicago then

ChiefFan31
04-30-2007, 01:32 AM
Teicher's been ragged on before by the Chiefs. The have no respect for the local media.

I know Herm and CP cannot stand that Hag Rhonda Moss.

Watching those little QA sessions on the Chiefs site after each pick. You can just tell its Shamu asking a question and you cant just seem them going Uggghhh.

|Zach|
04-30-2007, 01:35 AM
I know Herm and CP cannot stand that Hag Rhonda Moss.

Watching those little QA sessions on the Chiefs site after each pick. You can just tell its Shamu asking a question and you cant just seem them going Uggghhh.
She asks pointed questions...they are usually really good questions while everyone else lines up to be the Chiefs' fluffer.

CoMoChief
04-30-2007, 01:36 AM
This whole thing is going to be a stale mate.

I can't really see MIA going into this season and throwing Beck to the wolves.

Chiefs are just playing poker right now. And IMO are doing a poor job of it. The grand daddy question of all of this is if Carl thinks that Trent is still a quality pro bowl qb in this league, then why don't we just keep him until he hangs them up? It's not a money issue because we can more than afford to have him on the roster starting for this club. IMO it's just stupid to ask MIA for a 2nd rounder for Green:

He's 37 years old making him the oldest starting QB in this league. Brett Favre I think we can all agree is like Chuck Norris meaning he doesn't age.

Trent came back from a terrible concussion to the point where his family was wanting him to hang it up. Trent came back and played and clearly wasn't the same. In practice he was fine and hitting Wr's routes etc according to coaches but in the games he played scared. In the 8 games that Trent Green started, he had only one good game and that was against CLE where our defense decided to piss down their legs that game. There was only one game where Trent Green didn't throw an INT.

Face it folks, Trent Green is a avg QB who played in a good offensive system with some of the greatest TE RB's and Olinemen this league has ever seen.

ChiefFan31
04-30-2007, 01:37 AM
She asks pointed questions...they are usually really good questions while everyone else lines up to be the Chiefs' fluffer.

True. She does ask some good ones. She is a bold one, to say the least.


It just had me laughing watching both CP and Herm just looking like they were ready to lash out at her. Kinda like...not YOU again!

Tribal Warfare
04-30-2007, 01:37 AM
Face it folks, Trent Green is a avg QB who played in a good offensive system with some of the greatest TE RB's and Olinemen this league has ever seen.


:shake:

SPchief
04-30-2007, 01:44 AM
. IMO it's just stupid to ask MIA for a 2nd rounder for Green:

.


We started with a 2nd. Then moved to a 4th. That's called negotiation. Miami hasn't budged at all. I think that the phins front office is ****ing retarded. They passed on Quinn, and still refuse to give up some sort of draft pick for a starting QB, then **** em. If the phins really want to start Cleo ****ing lemmons, more power to them.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 01:52 AM
I told you guys.........Now that the draft is gone Trent is gonna play some hardball, he doesn't want to be here.

SPchief
04-30-2007, 02:09 AM
I told you guys.........Now that the draft is gone Trent is gonna play some hardball, he doesn't want to be here.


Says Trents agent. And agent speak is very truthfull. :rolleyes:

Mecca
04-30-2007, 02:11 AM
We started with a 2nd. Then moved to a 4th. That's called negotiation. Miami hasn't budged at all. I think that the phins front office is ****ing retarded. They passed on Quinn, and still refuse to give up some sort of draft pick for a starting QB, then **** em. If the phins really want to start Cleo ****ing lemmons, more power to them.

Well now it's at this point.......Trent doesn't wanna be here anymore....his agent is saying he in no way is coming back....why would you trade anything if you were Miami.......

This is gonna get ugly.....Trent's a good guy but business is business, you can't fool yourself into thinking he is just gonna sit here like good little soldier.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 02:11 AM
Says Trents agent. And agent speak is very truthfull. :rolleyes:

His agent isn't Rosenhaus this guy was Rice's agent, I've never heard of him doing anything shady......it just looks better for him to say it than Trent but I suspect he's just going with what Trent has told him.

SPchief
04-30-2007, 02:14 AM
His agent isn't Rosenhaus this guy was Rice's agent, I've never heard of him doing anything shady......it just looks better for him to say it than Trent but I suspect he's just going with what Trent has told him.


Trent Green will start next year if no deal is done.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 02:15 AM
LOL..........I'm sure Trent is going to come crawling back after the Chiefs told him they didn't want him....

If they weren't going to move him they shouldn't have told him that, they got themselves in this mess and now Green is going to play the game with them to get out of here.

RedThat
04-30-2007, 02:16 AM
Face it folks, Trent Green is a avg QB who played in a good offensive system with some of the greatest TE RB's and Olinemen this league has ever seen.

Also, he has been VERY fortunate to have been surrounded by good quality offensive coaches throughout his career.

*No question, he has had tons of help.

RedThat
04-30-2007, 02:17 AM
Trent Green will start next year if no deal is done.

Im thinking he will be as good as gone.

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 02:18 AM
As each day goes by I am getting more and more pissed at Green and his agent.

This franchise saved his career from obscurity by trading a FIRST ROUND PICK for him (which, by the way that whole time, not a peep by Steiner to the media about how the Lambs had to let him go because he wants out), sticking with him through an INT filled first year, building a solid offense around him, taking every precaution with him last year when he got hurt, re-inserting him in the lineup even though Huard was playing lights out, stuck with him all the way through the playoffs even though he struggled, and he repays us by PISSING OVER ANY TYPE OF LEVERAGE WE HAD in terms of compensation by threatening not to play for us.

SCREW Trent Green and his agent. They need to STFU and STFD.

Then again, Carl should have never given him permission to shop himself around before settling on compensation in return. But Carl likes Green so he let him. And this is what we get in return.

Why do we even deal with Jim Steiner? He is the one who pulled that Elvis Grbac crap on us last time. What a douche.

I like Vermeil, but I am SOOOO over the Vermeil "era". What a waste of 5 years, and all we got in return was an old team...

Mecca
04-30-2007, 02:18 AM
Trent Green very much was a product of the system.....remember his first year here? Remember how he looked when things broke down.....he still holds the ball to long and needs a great line because of that and the fact that he has to setup perfect or he throws the flutter ball.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 02:19 AM
Im thinking he will be as good as gone.

And he and his agent are going to make sure of it, now we see why the Dolphins refused to budge.

SPchief
04-30-2007, 02:22 AM
LOL..........I'm sure Trent is going to come crawling back after the Chiefs told him they didn't want him....

If they weren't going to move him they shouldn't have told him that, they got themselves in this mess and now Green is going to play the game with them to get out of here.


From what I understand, Trent is still under contract. Can you recall the last time that Trent held out of a contract?


Before you answer that question, answer this, how many team meetings has Trent missed since being told by either Carl or Herm "Trent, you won't be on this team next year"?

Mecca
04-30-2007, 02:25 AM
We'll see.......the game changed the draft passed and he's still here. He had no reason to do anything out of character before hand he thought he was being moved.

This is going both ways now....it may get ugly, I'd rather it not.

SPchief
04-30-2007, 02:28 AM
We'll see.......the game changed the draft passed and he's still here. He had no reason to do anything out of character before hand he thought he was being moved.

This is going both ways now....it may get ugly, I'd rather it not.


Nice spin.

booger
04-30-2007, 04:21 AM
fireadamteicher.com

booger
04-30-2007, 04:24 AM
seriously, everyone should write an email to the sports editor at the star. Tell them he sucks. All he usually does is rehash earlier offseason news and include it in his articles. We are the worst covered nfl team in the league as far as the local paper and their worthless beat writer.

booger
04-30-2007, 04:35 AM
maybe if enough people complain he will have to cover nascar or the x games instead of the chiefs.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 04:36 AM
Psh he's been there forever, look at the new people they brought in they were worse.....cmon Elizabeth Merril?

|Zach|
04-30-2007, 04:39 AM
We are the worst covered nfl team in the league as far as the local paper and their worthless beat writer.
Based on all your time in other NFL markets and reading their news coverage.

booger
04-30-2007, 04:44 AM
Based on all your time in other NFL markets and reading their news coverage.
Based on searching for chiefs news all over the net, finding mostly other teams news and not KC news. KFFL, FFmastermind, etc... Offseason after offseason after offseason.

You sure are a mouthy focker aren't you?

booger
04-30-2007, 04:45 AM
Psh he's been there forever, look at the new people they brought in they were worse.....cmon Elizabeth Merril?
To replace Ivan Carter. She didn't last very long anyway.

|Zach|
04-30-2007, 04:47 AM
Based on searching for chiefs news all over the net, finding mostly other teams news and not KC news. KFFL, FFmastermind, etc... Offseason after offseason after offseason.

You sure are a mouthy focker aren't you?
You are surprised you get more "info" from rumor websites as opposed to a legit beat writer who deals mostly in print?

booger
04-30-2007, 04:54 AM
No.

Rumors? Do you even visit those sites? PFT is rumor. KFFL and FFmastermind take articles that are written and post their statements straight from the source like the star.
I simply compare most other teams info to KC's. Over the years the quality and quantity of articles of KC's to most other teams is pretty pathetic.

What are you Teicher's son or something?

blueballs
04-30-2007, 05:21 AM
Teicher is turning into Jack Harry

|Zach|
04-30-2007, 05:27 AM
What are you Teicher's son or something?
Not at all, just a regular chiefs news reader that easily gets all the info needed without having to make up far fetched claims. You can't just make things out of thin air. The Chiefs don't treat the journalists like journalists. They treat them like little kids at the little kids table that should be happy that they are even there.

penchief
04-30-2007, 05:42 AM
Trent and the dophins tried to screw the chiefs. And they thought they had the leverage to do it. But they didn't. I don't think they're any happier now that they don't have Green. They wanted Green and they screwed it up by trying to be petty. Carl shouldn't just give away a starting quarterback because Miami thinks he isn't in our plans.

I think Trent may have had a hand in screwing the pooch on this one. I think they thought a trade was so inevitable that he was telling them you can get me without really having to give anything up.

I support Peterson on this one.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 05:45 AM
And Trent is going to do what he told the Dolphins he would do, get himself cut so they get him for free.....

It's every bit as much the Chiefs fault when they told Green to seek a trade and he wasn't their guy that was the mistake.

penchief
04-30-2007, 06:05 AM
And Trent is going to do what he told the Dolphins he would do, get himself cut so they get him for free.....

It's every bit as much the Chiefs fault when they told Green to seek a trade and he wasn't their guy that was the mistake.

What's worth more? A sixth round pick or a starting quarterback? I'd rather cut him than accept a 6th. They want Green there. At what point is having him there during training camp worth more than a 6th round pick? I'd keep him right til the end. At least teams will think twice before trying to lowball us.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:07 AM
They shouldn't have told him that stuff........if they weren't going to move him.

If you were the Dolphins you'd make a lowball offer too, why offer alot when you know he's gettin cut?

donkhater
04-30-2007, 06:12 AM
I'm listening to CP and what he says. He says that Trent Green is very valuable to this team.

What does that mean?

It means that CP thinks that he can still be a starting QB in this league. If he were to come to camp and compete he is still capable of winning the starting job. No doubt.

Given that and his recent success over the lasy 4-5 years, you don't just cut a QB like that. Veteran QB's that you believe can still play at a high level are GOLD.

CP was very justified in asking for at least a fourth from Miami if not a conditional pick based on his performance next year and he has every right to keep Trent on the roster unti he retires or receives fair compensation.

If the salary cap can withstand it, CP should definately stick to his guns. Trent and Miami may not like it, but tough.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:13 AM
What are you gonna do hold him hostage........his agent is putting out there he doesn't wanna be here.

donkhater
04-30-2007, 06:13 AM
I'm listening to CP and what he says. He says that Trent Green is very valuable to this team.

What does that mean?

It means that CP thinks that he can still be a starting QB in this league. If he were to come to camp and compete he is still capable of winning the starting job. No doubt.

(Note: I don't think KC still wants Trent as their starting QB, I just think he is still capable of being the best QB on this team. Edwards clearly wants to get Croyle onthe field and get younger.)

Given that and his recent success over the lasy 4-5 years, you don't just cut a QB like that. Veteran QB's that you believe can still play at a high level are GOLD.

CP was very justified in asking for at least a fourth from Miami if not a conditional pick based on his performance next year and he has every right to keep Trent on the roster unti he retires or receives fair compensation.

If the salary cap can withstand it, CP should definately stick to his guns. Trent and Miami may not like it, but tough.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:14 AM
Alright.....I don't think paying 7 million dollars and keeping someone who doesn't want to be here out of spite is a great idea, but to each their own.

cdcox
04-30-2007, 06:23 AM
If Trent wants to play hardball, I'm 100% in favor of letting him rot in training camp until the last cut and dropping him then. I like Trent. A lot. But there is no question where my loyalties lie and that is with the Chiefs. If Trent wants to actively work on behalf of the Dolphins, then that gives the Chiefs license to raise the level of their tactics to counter act this ploy.

Carl offered to take a 4th, that was a good faith effort to move Green. Carl has fulfilled that obligation that he made. It is Green and his agent that are raising the stakes. Carl would only be returning fire by putting Green in stasis until the last possible moment.

donkhater
04-30-2007, 06:26 AM
Alright.....I don't think paying 7 million dollars and keeping someone who doesn't want to be here out of spite is a great idea, but to each their own.

I hear ya, but I don't think cutting a veteran QB without compensation is maximizing value either.

If Trent were to get cut, there would be a LOAD of teams looking to bring him in and would upgrade their starting QB position overnight.

Minnesota
Chicago
Detroit (big possiblity)
Tampa
Washington
Miami
NYJets
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland

ALL those above teams would be interested in Green for a season or two. Once training camp gets closer, you'll see interest getting higher. If not a decision has to be made. I know it sucks to treat a guy like Trent this way, but it's nothing personal, it's just good business.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:28 AM
Problem is, Trent has that 7 mill base. If he's only willing to renegotiate with Miami then he marks them out, that's what Randy Moss did that's why he was sent to NE and not GB.

I agree with CD on this, It sure seems Trent has decided **** the Chiefs they turned their back on me.....

cdcox
04-30-2007, 06:28 AM
I hear ya, but I don't think cutting a veteran QB without compensation is maximizing value either.

If Trent were to get cut, there would be a LOAD of teams looking to bring him in and would upgrade their starting QB position overnight.

Minnesota
Chicago
Detroit (big possiblity)
Tampa
Washington
Miami
NYJets
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland

ALL those above teams would be interested in Green for a season or two. Once training camp gets closer, you'll see interest getting higher. If not a decision has to be made. I know it sucks to treat a guy like Trent this way, but it's nothing personal, it's just good business.

The problem is that none of those teams will be interested in Green with his current contract, and so far, Green has only shown an interest in renegotiating with the Dolphins.

penchief
04-30-2007, 06:30 AM
They shouldn't have told him that stuff........if they weren't going to move him.

If you were the Dolphins you'd make a lowball offer too, why offer alot when you know he's gettin cut?

They told him to seek a trade. They didn't tell him cornhole us. And they didn't say they'd accept whatever someone was offering.

Based on what Miami is offerning, cutting Green at any time during the season is equivalent to cutting the 199th pick in the 2007 draft. Big whoop. Not having a starting quarterback is a little more expensive, IMO.

siberian khatru
04-30-2007, 06:32 AM
What cdcox and penchief said.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:34 AM
I pretty much agree with all this too.......

But where's all the "Trent's a classy guy he wouldn't do that stuff" I got when I said I thought this would happen.....

penchief
04-30-2007, 06:36 AM
The problem is that none of those teams will be interested in Green with his current contract, and so far, Green has only shown an interest in renegotiating with the Dolphins.

That might change the longer we hold on to him. In fact, maybe he should go back to Miami and say, "hey, if you really want me I guess you're going to have to pay fair compensation."

If Miami doesn't get Green it won't be because of Carl Peterson, it will be because they weren't willing to pay a fair price. Green should recognize that's Miami's issue, not ours.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:37 AM
It has to be done before the season starts because then his contract becomes guarenteed and I don't want to pay 7 million dollars to a player that doesn't want to be here out of spite.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:38 AM
That might change the longer we hold on to him. In fact, maybe he should go back to Miami and say, "hey, if you really want me I guess you're going to have to pay fair compensation."

If Miami doesn't get Green it won't be because of Carl Peterson, it will be because they weren't willing to pay a fair price. Green should recognize that's Miami's issue, not ours.

It appears Green doesn't give a shit and his interest is ****ing the Chiefs to get out of here in any way possible......Everything he has done has favored Miami and taken leverage from us.

penchief
04-30-2007, 06:40 AM
It has to be done before the season starts because then his contract becomes guarenteed and I don't want to pay 7 million dollars to a player that doesn't want to be here out of spite.

I'd rather pay Trent and have him on the bench in case we need him, than I would to give him away for nothing. Trent's earned his money.

According to Carl, we can afford to pay him. I've got no problem with that.

penchief
04-30-2007, 06:42 AM
It appears Green doesn't give a shit and his interest is ****ing the Chiefs to get out of here in any way possible......Everything he has done has favored Miami and taken leverage from us.

I guess he's finding out that won't get the job done, either. If we are in the position to call Trent's bluff, I think we should do it. There's no law that says we can't start Brodie and still pay Trent his 7 million.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 06:43 AM
Wow I wouldn't want to put a guy under center who's not happy he's here..........

penchief
04-30-2007, 06:51 AM
Wow I wouldn't want to put a guy under center who's not happy he's here..........

What's he gonna do? Throw away a game? Ruin his own reputation?

If he wants to play for Miami, the phins are going to have to pay a fair price. If he ends up staying here, then it will be because the dolphins didn't want him badly enough. Even a reasonable man like Trent can see that is not something to resent us for.

Trent's a businessman, too. He thought the dolphins had the leverage but they didn't. If everybody wants this deal to happen, it's time to regroup and negotiate in good faith.

NJ Chief Fan
04-30-2007, 06:54 AM
Thanks Trent for the good times, but after that Colts game I said I never want to see him in a Chief uni again, well at least not starting.

CoMoChief
04-30-2007, 07:04 AM
Trent Green very much was a product of the system.....remember his first year here? Remember how he looked when things broke down.....he still holds the ball to long and needs a great line because of that and the fact that he has to setup perfect or he throws the flutter ball.


I'm glad someone sees it my way. Trent's a great guy and a great teammate, but he clearly showed he wasn't remotely close to the same QB when he didn't have 3-4 probowl linemen protecting him.

jidar
04-30-2007, 07:06 AM
Why does everyone keep thinking if we don't trade Trent we just keep him and play him? It's like people are forgetting the whole reason we're in this mess in the first place; his salary cap hit.

Trent will not play here because we owe him 7m+ that we can't pay under the cap and he wont renegotiate with us.

If we don't trade him WE HAVE TO CUT HIM OR PAY HIM, and we CANT pay him. So what option does that leave? It's as simple as that.

So that means we either get a deal done or cut him, and despite what it looked like earlier only one team seems to be willing to take him. That's why we're so screwed here, and that's why everyone but us holds all the cards.

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 07:08 AM
I just don't understand the animosity towards Trent Green. The franchise informed Trent Green that the team had no intention of paying the amount owed on his current contract. This effectively made Trent a free-agent. If you were a free-agent, where would you rather play? For a team that has a head coach you know and like, and who runs the Coryell system you know (edit, and has your favorite QB coach), or for a team that has a head coach who has all but said he doesn't want you back, has fired the QB coach you really liked, and only wants to throw the football on third and long?

From the start, I never understood the compensation arguments. The Chiefs made Trent a free-agent, and now they want compensation? It was ludicrous from the get-go.

My guess is the Carl is having second thoughts about all this and is contemplating "informing" Edwards that Green is the starter.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 07:09 AM
I'm glad someone sees it my way. Trent's a great guy and a great teammate, but he clearly showed he wasn't remotely close to the same QB when he didn't have 3-4 probowl linemen protecting him.

Some people really think he's worth a first day pick cause of something he did 3 years ago........

Trent's a great guy yea, but his value isn't very high.....

And the Dolphins can win their 4 games and finish last with or without Trent Green, so honestly I don't think that Cleo Lemon stuff matters....

Hell I just listened to a draft guy say John Beck will have a better career than Quinn.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 07:10 AM
I just don't understand the animosity towards Trent Green. The franchise informed Trent Green that the team had no intention of paying the amount owed on his current contract. This effectively made Trent a free-agent. If you were a free-agent, where would you rather play? For a team that has a head coach you know and like, and who runs the Coryell system you know (edit, and has your favorite QB coach), or for a team that has a head coach who has all but said he doesn't want you back, has fired the QB coach you really liked, and only wants to throw the football on third and long?

From the start, I never understood the compensation arguments. The Chiefs made Trent a free-agent, and now they want compensation? It was ludicrous from the get-go.

My guess is the Carl is having second thoughts about all this and is contemplating "informing" Edwards that Green is the starter.

I really have no hard feelings towards Trent I expected this, if you tell him he isn't your guy and to find a trade then you should trade him....if you aren't going to then you shouldn't tell him that.....

Now Trent likely feels like the Chiefs dealt with him in bad faith so here comes stuff like this.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 07:12 AM
It has to be done before the season starts because then his contract becomes guarenteed and I don't want to pay 7 million dollars to a player that doesn't want to be here out of spite.

It's not your money.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 07:15 AM
That isn't the point.....

Iowanian
04-30-2007, 07:50 AM
If Miami didn't offer a reasonable pick....and Green cut off the Chiefs negotiating knees by failing to meet or allow Cleveland as an option, and now wishes to "leverage" his release.....the Chiefs should absolutely put his ass in a lawn chair reading Nancy Drew Books at Training camp, and cut him in the final group.

If its the Agent talking and Green is still a team player, have an open competition in camp and let the best QB play.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 07:55 AM
If its the Agent talking and Green is still a team player, have an open competition in camp and let the best QB play.

Do you really think Herm wants an open competition at QB?

el borracho
04-30-2007, 07:59 AM
Why does everyone keep thinking if we don't trade Trent we just keep him and play him? It's like people are forgetting the whole reason we're in this mess in the first place; his salary cap hit.

Trent will not play here because we owe him 7m+ that we can't pay under the cap and he wont renegotiate with us.

If we don't trade him WE HAVE TO CUT HIM OR PAY HIM, and we CANT pay him. So what option does that leave? It's as simple as that.

So that means we either get a deal done or cut him, and despite what it looked like earlier only one team seems to be willing to take him. That's why we're so screwed here, and that's why everyone but us holds all the cards.
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=162073

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=162217

Iowanian
04-30-2007, 08:04 AM
I think Herm wants to play the Young QB to find out if he's got a quarterback or not. At Green's age, he's not even a mid-range, let alone long term sollution.

I think Miami thought they had CP's balls in a vice, and I think Green didn't help.....so I see zero reason for the Chiefs to play nice and release Green in a timeframe that helps Miami at all.

cdcox
04-30-2007, 08:06 AM
I really have no hard feelings towards Trent I expected this, if you tell him he isn't your guy and to find a trade then you should trade him....if you aren't going to then you shouldn't tell him that.....

Now Trent likely feels like the Chiefs dealt with him in bad faith so here comes stuff like this.

The problem is that with a contract like Green's, you have to get the player's agreement to the trade so that the player and his agent can negotiate a new contract. Ideally the player is flexible about where he wants to play so that the team can have multiple bidders in the trade talk and get some value. Green didn't do that. Green effectively gave all of the negotiating power to the Dolphins. Carl's only choice is to hold onto Green for now and hope something changes. That doesn't make Carl a bad guy.

boogblaster
04-30-2007, 08:07 AM
daBears probably could use Green..CP needs to try something there..we'd take a Olineman with some NFL experince .....

Mecca
04-30-2007, 08:13 AM
daBears probably could use Green..CP needs to try something there..we'd take a Olineman with some NFL experince .....

He would have to want to go there.......they won't take him at 7 mill and if he says no to redoing his contract the deal is dead.....he screwed our value because he wouldn't talk to anyone but Miami.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 08:20 AM
It's funny that today everyone is saying Green and Miami have all the power. For weeks everyone said Carl and the Chiefs had all the leverage in the world.

Brock
04-30-2007, 08:23 AM
It's funny that today everyone is saying Green and Miami have all the power. For weeks everyone said Carl and the Chiefs had all the leverage in the world.

I guess Miami has leverage if they don't care if Trent attends training camp.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 08:25 AM
I guess they think they'll finish last with or without him.

jspchief
04-30-2007, 08:30 AM
I think there's a detail that's being left out of the "The door might be open for veteran quarterback Trent Green to return to the Chiefs, but he doesn’t intend to use it." story.

I think the only way the door is still open is if Green takes a pay cut. So when his agent says Green doesn't want to play here, what he's really saying is that Green doesn't want to play for less money.

IMO, Green doesn't have the leverage to play hardball with us. He either takes less money or he's gone, and I don't think the Chiefs care which path he chooses. They are going to cut him no sooner than June 1st, and may not even do it that soon. At this point, the Chiefs hold all the cards in regards to Green's odds of playing football for a team this year.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 08:35 AM
I think there's a detail that's being left out of the "The door might be open for veteran quarterback Trent Green to return to the Chiefs, but he doesn’t intend to use it." story.

I think the only way the door is still open is if Green takes a pay cut. So when his agent says Green doesn't want to play here, what he's really saying is that Green doesn't want to play for less money.

IMO, Green doesn't have the leverage to play hardball with us. He either takes less money or he's gone, and I don't think the Chiefs care which path he chooses. They are going to cut him no sooner than June 1st, and may not even do it that soon. At this point, the Chiefs hold all the cards in regards to Green's odds of playing football for a team this year.

They can't keep him on the team and treat him like a red headed step child. He's been the only team leader for the last 5 years. Team chemistry will suffer if he isn't traded quickly.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 08:37 AM
I guess Miami has leverage if they don't care if Trent attends training camp.

Miami coaches obviously have a different view of their QB situation, otherwise they wouldn't have passed on Quinn. When they didn't deal their 4th they knew there was the potential Trent could come into camp late. It's a risk they were willing to take. They called the shots.

jspchief
04-30-2007, 08:41 AM
They can't keep him on the team and treat him like a red headed step child. He's been the only team leader for the last 5 years. Team chemistry will suffer if he isn't traded quickly. Of course they can. They know Green is a professional, and he'll take his lumps quietly.

Besides, Green doesn't have a platform to complain. He was given the option to seek trades, and he chose a single team to deal with. That team couldn't come to terms with the Chiefs.

As for chemistry, the chemistry is already going through a change. There's enough new blood on this team that I don't think many people are going to be overly concerned with Trent Green. Especially after the way he played last year. The young guys on this team see a declining QB that may be holding them back. How many starters from '03 are left on this offense?

Brock
04-30-2007, 08:42 AM
Miami coaches obviously have a different view of their QB situation, otherwise they wouldn't have passed on Quinn. When they didn't deal their 4th they knew there was the potential Trent could come into camp late. It's a risk they were willing to take. They called the shots.

I think they passed on Quinn because they know they're going to be able to deal for Green before training camp, plus they got a pretty good QB in the second anyway. All they have to do is make an offer that's not insulting.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 08:43 AM
Of course they can. They know Green is a professional, and he'll take his lumps quietly.

Besides, Green doesn't have a platform to complain. He was given the option to seek trades, and he chose a single team to deal with. That team couldn't come to terms with the Chiefs.

As for chemistry, the chemistry is already going through a change. There's enough new blood on this team that I don't think many people are going to be overly concerned with Trent Green. Especially after the way he played last year. The young guys on this team see a declining QB that may be holding them back. How many starters from '03 are left on this offense?

I tend to agree with this, almost all of the players that have played with Green and the coaches that loved him......are all gone.

I don't know how many people will really be up in arms about this among the players.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 08:44 AM
How many starters from '03 are left on this offense?

Off the top of my head: Kennison, Waters, Weigman, Welbourn, Gonzo, LJ and possibly guys like Sampson, Parker and Dunn.

chiefsfan1963
04-30-2007, 08:52 AM
I can't see us giving up Trent without a 3rd or 4th rounder. It's a waiting game and don't see CP in a bad position here. If it is true we offered to trade him for a 4th and they didn't take it then it's nobody's fault than the Pfins front office.

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out.

jspchief
04-30-2007, 08:53 AM
Off the top of my head: Kennison, Waters, Weigman, Welbourn, Gonzo, LJ and possibly guys like Sampson, Parker and Dunn.Kennison, Weigman, Dunn, and Waters are likely the only ones that care about Green, and half those guys are likely in their last season. Maybe Parker. LJ surely doesn't give a shit and Gonzo probably doesn't either considering he saw twice the production with Huard in.

My guess is there are enough people that are ready for a change. I don't expect any kind of team outcry when he's cut.

Besides, the FO isn't going to risk their own success over some possible hurt feelings. Financially the only smart choice is to wait until June 1st. And in terms of depth, it makes sense to keep him all the way through pre-season.

Mecca
04-30-2007, 08:55 AM
Omar Jacobs is rooting for him to get cut......

chiefsfan1963
04-30-2007, 08:59 AM
If Trent shows that he's back to his old former self and handily beats out Huard and Croyle proves not to be ready yet why not keep him if we have the cap room? All the more reason to not give him up unless it's something of value. 3rd rounder would be really fair if the above holds true. Quite frankly the longer Miami waits the more I can see they will have to give up. A 2nd rounder is not out of the realm of possibility.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-30-2007, 08:59 AM
If Gonzo got to choose, I would bet good money he would pick Huard

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 09:10 AM
I think the only way the door is still open is if Green takes a pay cut. So when his agent says Green doesn't want to play here, what he's really saying is that Green doesn't want to play for less money.


Well, yeah. Trent is not going to get his 7 million, but the upside is that he gets to choose the team he plays for at the 3 million or whatever the number may be. He chose Miami.

Miami knows the end-game, and were willing to give up a token draft pick to get him into camp early, but the Chiefs wanted more. Miami refused.

The only question that remains is it better to trade him or cut him for salary cap purposes. If he is traded, he reworks his contract first. It could make a difference. If he IS traded to Miami, it will be for some token draft pick next year.

If this gets ugly, the Chiefs are entirely to blame. Trent has done nothing shady. Why should he renegotiate his contract to remain here if he doesn't want to be here? The Chiefs have said they are not real happy and intend to date other people, but that Trent can have sloppy seconds.

Mr. Laz
04-30-2007, 09:13 AM
sounds like the Chiefs pissed Trent off and he in turn went to the Dolphins and told them everything.

The Dolphins low balled the offer to us :shrug:

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 09:19 AM
Besides, the FO isn't going to risk their own success over some possible hurt feelings. Financially the only smart choice is to wait until June 1st. And in terms of depth, it makes sense to keep him all the way through pre-season.

Why wait until June 1? Aren't the exemptions still applicable?

Tribal Warfare
04-30-2007, 09:23 AM
If Gonzo got to choose, I would bet good money he would pick Huard



ROFL

Mr. Laz
04-30-2007, 09:25 AM
Why wait until June 1? Aren't the exemptions still applicable?
he's been told about the new June 1st exemption rules more than once.


apparently he doens't believe or it's not conducive to his argument

Mr. Laz
04-30-2007, 09:30 AM
If Gonzo got to choose, I would bet good money he would pick Huard
really ...... because before last year Gonzo had been doing pretty good receiving passes from Green.


Receiving
Year Team___________ G GS Rec_ Yds
2001 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 073 0917
2002 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 063 0773
2003 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 071 0916
2004 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 102 1258
2005 Kansas City Chiefs 16 16 078 0905
2006 Kansas City Chiefs 15 15 073 0900

Dave Lane
04-30-2007, 09:42 AM
This whole thing is going to be a stale mate.

I can't really see MIA going into this season and throwing Beck to the wolves.

Chiefs are just playing poker right now. And IMO are doing a poor job of it. The grand daddy question of all of this is if Carl thinks that Trent is still a quality pro bowl qb in this league, then why don't we just keep him until he hangs them up? It's not a money issue because we can more than afford to have him on the roster starting for this club. IMO it's just stupid to ask MIA for a 2nd rounder for Green:

He's 37 years old making him the oldest starting QB in this league. Brett Favre I think we can all agree is like Chuck Norris meaning he doesn't age.

Trent came back from a terrible concussion to the point where his family was wanting him to hang it up. Trent came back and played and clearly wasn't the same. In practice he was fine and hitting Wr's routes etc according to coaches but in the games he played scared. In the 8 games that Trent Green started, he had only one good game and that was against CLE where our defense decided to piss down their legs that game. There was only one game where Trent Green didn't throw an INT.

Face it folks, Trent Green is a avg QB who played in a good offensive system with some of the greatest TE RB's and Olinemen this league has ever seen.


CP said to MIA that he would take a 4th this year...

Dave

jspchief
04-30-2007, 09:53 AM
he's been told about the new June 1st exemption rules more than once.


apparently he doens't believe or it's not conducive to his argumentI have? Link?

It was my understanding that the June 1st exemption only applied to last year, and was reinstated once a new CBA was reached, but I could be wrong.

As for being conducive to my argument, June 1st rule notwithstanding, there's no reason for the Chiefs to be in a hurry to cut Green at this point (other than fear of injury). Now that they didn't get a draft pick, it makes sense for them to hold on to him all the way through pre-season in case another of our QBs get hurt.

So again, Green doesn't hold the cards, the Chiefs do. They have the luxury of keeping him until they know without a doubt that they don't need him. Green choosing to sit out is of no consequence, it just saves them money.

The reality is KC did the decent thing by offering Green an opportunity to seek a roster spot elsewhere. Between Green's singular choice in teams, and that team's unwillingness to deal with KC, Green is now back in a situation where he has no choice but to sit and wait.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 10:05 AM
The reality is KC did the decent thing by offering Green an opportunity to seek a roster spot elsewhere.

Ah, the good old "they are doing him a favor" routine. It never gets old.

jspchief
04-30-2007, 10:12 AM
Ah, the good old "they are doing him a favor" routine. It never gets old.So you think it would have been better for them to just keep him until the last minute and then cut him?

By allowing him to seek a trade, both sides get something out of it. Now Green gets nothing, and the Chiefs still get to save 7 million dollars on this year's cap.

Chiefnj
04-30-2007, 10:22 AM
So you think it would have been better for them to just keep him until the last minute and then cut him?

By allowing him to seek a trade, both sides get something out of it. Now Green gets nothing, and the Chiefs still get to save 7 million dollars on this year's cap.

Why do you say Green gets nothing? He'll either get 7 million to stay in KC, or he'll go to Miami in a month or so for the contract value he negotiated with them.

jspchief
04-30-2007, 10:26 AM
Why do you say Green gets nothing? He'll either get 7 million to stay in KC, or he'll go to Miami in a month or so for the contract value he negotiated with them.In a month? or in 3 months?

Why would KC let him go until they absolutely have to? If I was GM, I'd make sure we made it all the way until opening day with healthy QBs before letting him go.

Green may still find a roster spot when all is said and done, but at this point I can't imagine it happening soon. wherever he goes, he's going to be behind where he could have been.

jspchief
04-30-2007, 10:27 AM
Point being, Green isn't in a position to play hardball, as the article suggests.

penchief
04-30-2007, 10:39 AM
So again, Green doesn't hold the cards, the Chiefs do. They have the luxury of keeping him until they know without a doubt that they don't need him. Green choosing to sit out is of no consequence, it just saves them money.

The reality is KC did the decent thing by offering Green an opportunity to seek a roster spot elsewhere. Between Green's singular choice in teams, and that team's unwillingness to deal with KC, Green is now back in a situation where he has no choice but to sit and wait.

Agree. Green has two choices. Play for the chiefs or play for someone else. If he refuses to talk to other teams then he's the one making the decision to play for us. That is, unless Miami wants to quit playing games and offer fair compensation for their starting QB. It's not Trents place to try to force the chiefs hand on behalf of the dolphins.

donkhater
04-30-2007, 10:50 AM
Unless the cap dictates it, CP can't budge on this one until the end of training camp. I know that will basically stick it to Trent, but as it has been pointed out here, he has partially made his own bed in this instance.

What will caving in to Trent and his agent do to team chemistry? Has anyone asked that? What happens the next time someone on the team uses this ploy (Jared Allen anyone?)? No. CP has to keep Green on the roster until he either gets fair value in a trade or absolutely can't afford to keep him.

Direckshun
04-30-2007, 10:52 AM
SOMEBODY SEND BRIAN WATERS TO STEP ON THIS GUY'S FOOT.

NewChief
04-30-2007, 10:54 AM
One other thing:

Right now, they're getting "something" by trading Trent in the form of freeing up the entirety of his salary and cap. If they wait until June to cut him, they'll be gaining nothing other than having to only pay for half his salary/cap hit. Unless, of course, you think they "gain" something in the form of looking like hardasses who aren't to be trifled with in negotiations.

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 10:56 AM
Don't the Chiefs have to get under the salary by date X? Trent Green's salary being on the books will screw up everything. I find it next to impossible that the Chiefs will hang out to Trent as a lame-duck QB who will be cut the last day before his salary becomes guaranteed, in the hopes they can get a second day draft pick next year?

The Chiefs have no leverage here, and never did.

Phobia
04-30-2007, 10:57 AM
I know Bob Moore's purportedly a douche. This is going pretty far out on a limb on Teicher's behalf, though.

Purportedly? Heh heh. He bangs Athan like a drum. It's hilarious the stuff Nick does to make Bob happy. If Bob wasn't working for the Chiefs he'd be keeping my lettuce fresh at the local Apple Market.

Brock
04-30-2007, 11:00 AM
Don't the Chiefs have to get under the salary by date X? Trent Green's salary being on the books will screw up everything. I find it next to impossible that the Chiefs will hang out to Trent as a lame-duck QB who will be cut the last day before his salary becomes guaranteed, in the hopes they can get a second day draft pick next year?

The Chiefs have no leverage here, and never did.

The Chiefs are way, way under the salary cap.

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 11:02 AM
The Chiefs are way, way under the salary cap.

Not according to ESPN yesterday. Sal P. claimed there was no way for the Chiefs to keep Green's salary on the books.

Brock
04-30-2007, 11:04 AM
Not according to ESPN yesterday. Sal P. claimed there was no way for the Chiefs to keep Green's salary on the books.

There is no way the Chiefs are anywhere close to 109 million dollars in salary, with or without Green.

petegz28
04-30-2007, 11:23 AM
most of the KC sports media are tards. D.A. and St. Johna re about the only 2 I can listen too for any legth of time. And I like Poz

Cochise
04-30-2007, 11:25 AM
Carl has said over and over they have the room to pay Green his full salary this year if they wanted to. I'm not sure where all this cap trouble talk is coming from, Tard Illustrated?

Mr. Laz
04-30-2007, 11:27 AM
most of the KC sports media are tards. D.A. and St. Johna re about the only 2 I can listen too for any legth of time. And I like Poz
that's becaue Poz rarely actually SAYS anything.


he's too busy making up songs and crap

Logical
04-30-2007, 11:29 AM
I love how we are blaming the agent and the press for Carl's screw up. Carl is the one who basically threw Trent under the bus and gave up all leverage where he is concerned as far as trade potential goes.

Brock
04-30-2007, 11:31 AM
I love how we are blaming the agent and the press for Carl's screw up. Carl is the one who basically threw Trent under the bus and gave up all leverage where he is concerned as far as trade potential goes.

Explain yourself.

Logical
04-30-2007, 11:44 AM
Explain yourself.

When Carl told Trent that we we not interested in him for his present contract but that he was welcome to negotiate with other teams he was in effect saying you are no longer in our plans.

BigRock
04-30-2007, 12:26 PM
I pretty much agree with all this too.......

But where's all the "Trent's a classy guy he wouldn't do that stuff" I got when I said I thought this would happen.....
You're taking comment from an AGENT and playing it off as what the player is doing and saying. Of course Trent's agent wants him to go to the Dolphins. What does his agent get if Trent stays in KC? Nothing. What does his agent get if Trent signs a new contract with Miami? He gets a cut. Hmm, maybe his agent has his own agenda here.

Don't forget, Jim Steiner has a history with Carl. Someone already mentioned Grbac. A few years ago Carl and Steiner also got into it over Trent. The Chiefs re-signed Trent to a fat new deal and everyone was happy... except Steiner. He went complaining to the media and accusing Carl of trying to get the deal done without him. He's a douchebag.

Don't try to spin off Jim Steiner's BS as "look what Trent is doing". All Trent has done is show up to every workout and meeting the Chiefs have had since this whole thing started, even though the team had excused him.

Valiant
04-30-2007, 12:46 PM
They shouldn't have told him that stuff........if they weren't going to move him.

If you were the Dolphins you'd make a lowball offer too, why offer alot when you know he's gettin cut?


Because the Chiefs can keep him all the way til the last preseason game and then cut him, there for killing any chance he has with you of being your starting QB for the first 4-6 games of the year... That is why you do not lowball an offer...

keg in kc
04-30-2007, 12:47 PM
When Carl told Trent that we we not interested in him for his present contract but that he was welcome to negotiate with other teams he was in effect saying you are no longer in our plans.Right. Because we've certainly never tried to leverage a veteran into taking a pay cut before.

Jesus, Jim, you're smarter than this.

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 01:13 PM
Right. Because we've certainly never tried to leverage a veteran into taking a pay cut before.

Jesus, Jim, you're smarter than this.

Why is this so hard to understand. Once the Chiefs made it clear that Green was not receiving his contracted salary, he is effectively a free-agent.

And usually pay cuts involve exchanging pay for signing bonus. The Chiefs in this case tore up Green's contract. He's a free-agent now, people.

tk13
04-30-2007, 01:15 PM
Why is this so hard to understand. Once the Chiefs made it clear that Green was not receiving his contracted salary, he is effectively a free-agent.

And usually pay cuts involve exchanging pay for signing bonus. The Chiefs in this case tore up Green's contract. He's a free-agent now, people.
Except for the whole part where we have the option to not to do anything and keep him under contract.

htismaqe
04-30-2007, 01:21 PM
Why is this so hard to understand. Once the Chiefs made it clear that Green was not receiving his contracted salary, he is effectively a free-agent.

And usually pay cuts involve exchanging pay for signing bonus. The Chiefs in this case tore up Green's contract. He's a free-agent now, people.

Trent Green is under contract. Period.

Fruit Ninja
04-30-2007, 02:05 PM
Nice spin.
haha, exactly what i thought. Good way for him to get out of his previous posts. haha

Fruit Ninja
04-30-2007, 02:08 PM
Not according to ESPN yesterday. Sal P. claimed there was no way for the Chiefs to keep Green's salary on the books.
Remember, we don't have to pay Roaf, Shields, Sims, Hicks and Knights Salary. There is also a possibility of us getting rid of Wesley and Priest's as well. There is no way in hell we will be hurting with all them big ass contracts pretty much off the books. I may even be missing a few players that will be cut or traded.

blueballs
04-30-2007, 02:51 PM
One other thing:

Right now, they're getting "something" by trading Trent in the form of freeing up the entirety of his salary and cap. If they wait until June to cut him, they'll be gaining nothing other than having to only pay for half his salary/cap hit. Unless, of course, you think they "gain" something in the form of looking like hardasses who aren't to be trifled with in negotiations.


What happened to this trade
that just needed to be announced
was that in this thread you said that

Fruit Ninja
04-30-2007, 03:05 PM
What happened to this trade
that just needed to be announced
was that in this thread you said that
Going to go with full of shit. Only excuse i could come up with on this. lol

Brock
04-30-2007, 03:57 PM
Why is this so hard to understand. Once the Chiefs made it clear that Green was not receiving his contracted salary, he is effectively a free-agent.

And usually pay cuts involve exchanging pay for signing bonus. The Chiefs in this case tore up Green's contract. He's a free-agent now, people.

Everything you just said is false.

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 04:05 PM
Everything you just said is false.

Yeah, and what happened to all the draft picks we were supposed to get? Miami would have coughed up picks if they believed it was credible that Green's current contract would be honored.

You simply do not let your QB shop himself around if there is any chance he is staying with the team.

blueballs
04-30-2007, 04:09 PM
Trent could have a deal with agent
if he doesn't get him out of KC and signed elsewhere
he can fire him and re-sign with KC

NewChief
04-30-2007, 04:09 PM
What happened to this trade
that just needed to be announced
was that in this thread you said that


Look in the post (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3934393&postcount=24) I made about it. I said that anything can happen. Anything happened.

blueballs
04-30-2007, 04:15 PM
Look in the post (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3934393&postcount=24) I made about it. I said that anything can happen. Anything happened.

I lay this at the feet of the agent

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-30-2007, 04:15 PM
We are in no way shape or form in cap trouble. We hold all the chips here. If Croyle or Huard gets snapt in the preseason, we keep him. If not, or if a Coryell QB goes down, then we hold said team hostage for Green.

All things being equal, not getting a 4th rounder for him this year isn't the Chicken Little situation that it has been framed as by the dissenters of this board.

Brock
04-30-2007, 04:17 PM
Yeah, and what happened to all the draft picks we were supposed to get? Miami would have coughed up picks if they believed it was credible that Green's current contract would be honored.

You simply do not let your QB shop himself around if there is any chance he is staying with the team.

If the Chiefs were going to let him go for nothing, they would have accepted the ridiculous 6th or 7th round pick that was offered. If they want Green, they're going to have to come up with a real offer.

anyway, I was just pointing out that the chiefs neither tore up Green's contract, nor is he a free agent like you said.

shaneo69
04-30-2007, 04:47 PM
What does his agent get if Trent stays in KC? Nothing. What does his agent get if Trent signs a new contract with Miami? He gets a cut. Hmm, maybe his agent has his own agenda here.

Apparently you are ignorant of the fact that if Steiner talks Trent into staying with the Chiefs, the agent still gets 3% of his $7 mil salary for 2007.

On the other hand, Steiner takes a pay cut if Trent goes anywhere else and restructures.

Steiner is simply doing what his client wants.

Adept Havelock
04-30-2007, 04:55 PM
Teicher's been ragged on before by the Chiefs. The have no respect for the local media.

Hey, when the local media is worth respecting, I'll be happy to show some.



*With the exception of Joe Pos...most of the time.

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 04:56 PM
See, there's a misconception here. Green was told that we'd like to have him around, but A) We'd prefer it to be with a reduced salary, and B) He'd have to compete for the starting job. Herm has said he wants to get younger and he wants to see what Croyle can do. This is no way, shape or form means that we have informed Green that his services are no longer required. Because if Croyle shows that he can't do crap and Green plays lights out, then guess what, we'll go with Green.

The thing is Green didn't want to compete for the job, and he didn't want to play in this system as it will be run. So Carl said Trent, we respect you, if you don't want to do this then you are free to shop around and we'll see if we can accommodate you with a trade.

Now you tell me where in there it says to Green and his agent that his services are no longer required and he is essentially free to walk? Frankly Jim Steiner is being an a-hole about the way he's going about this crying to the media...

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 05:00 PM
Apparently you are ignorant of the fact that if Steiner talks Trent into staying with the Chiefs, the agent still gets 3% of his $7 mil salary for 2007.

On the other hand, Steiner takes a pay cut if Trent goes anywhere else and restructures.

Steiner is simply doing what his client wants.

I could be wrong, but I am under the impression that agents get paid at the signing of a contract, not per year based on the player's salary. So in effect, Steiner has already gotten paid what he was going to get paid under Green's current deal. Thus, he does in fact benefit by Green signing a new deal.

This is also the case when a player switches agents in the middle of contracts. The new agent gets no cut until the player signs a new deal. See Drew Rosenhaus when he took over for TO and got him out of Philly and into Dallas...

FringeNC
04-30-2007, 05:06 PM
See, there's a misconception here. Green was told that we'd like to have him around, but A) We'd prefer it to be with a reduced salary, and B) He'd have to compete for the starting job. Herm has said he wants to get younger and he wants to see what Croyle can do. This is no way, shape or form means that we have informed Green that his services are no longer required. Because if Croyle shows that he can't do crap and Green plays lights out, then guess what, we'll go with Green.

The thing is Green didn't want to compete for the job, and he didn't want to play in this system as it will be run. So Carl said Trent, we respect you, if you don't want to do this then you are free to shop around and we'll see if we can accommodate you with a trade.

Now you tell me where in there it says to Green and his agent that his services are no longer required and he is essentially free to walk? Frankly Jim Steiner is being an a-hole about the way he's going about this crying to the media...

No. New England accommodated what's his name WR to shop himself last year. He was under contract, and was unsatsified with the terms. The Chiefs announced to Green that they were going to void his contract. Accommodating Green would have been to give him his immediate release. I just don't understand what exactly Green should have done differently in your world.

BigRock
04-30-2007, 05:19 PM
I could be wrong, but I am under the impression that agents get paid at the signing of a contract, not per year based on the player's salary. So in effect, Steiner has already gotten paid what he was going to get paid under Green's current deal. Thus, he does in fact benefit by Green signing a new deal.
I think you can do it both ways, although I'm not entirely sure. But I'd swear I remember reading back when Shaun Alexander got his new deal that Jim Steiner was his agent and got a percentage of his contract as a whole, not a per-year thing. So if that's the standard way Steiner operates, he wouldn't get anything from KC.

BigRock
04-30-2007, 05:21 PM
The Chiefs announced to Green that they were going to void his contract.
When did they do that?

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 05:38 PM
No. New England accommodated what's his name WR to shop himself last year. He was under contract, and was unsatsified with the terms. The Chiefs announced to Green that they were going to void his contract. Accommodating Green would have been to give him his immediate release. I just don't understand what exactly Green should have done differently in your world.

Stop going to the media crying about Carl getting a deal done. If anything, tell Miami to get the deal done. And do it BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, not to the media.

The Chiefs never said his contract would be voided. They asked him to take a paycut, compete for a starting job, or look for a trade partner, and by partner I don't mean team trying to aquire player for virtually nothing...

orange
04-30-2007, 05:38 PM
When did they do that?

March 6:

Joint Statement from Chiefs President Carl Peterson and Jim Steiner
Mar 06, 2007, 3:28:16 PM

Over the past few weeks, Chiefs President Carl Peterson and Trent Green have met to discuss Trent’s future with the Kansas City Chiefs. Peterson and CAA Sports’ Jim Steiner have jointly issued the following statement regarding QB Trent Green. Peterson and Green met again yesterday afternoon to discuss Green’s future as a member of the Kansas City Chiefs.

“Conversations between the Chiefs and Trent Green about his future in Kansas City continue to be amicable and productive. The Chiefs have offered Trent the opportunity to remain with the organization with a restructured contract. However, before any decisions are finalized, the Chiefs have agreed to Trent’s request to allow him to explore other potential opportunities in the National Football League. We will continue to work in unison toward a resolution that will be acceptable to all parties.”


http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/03/06/joint_statement_from_chiefs_president_carl_peterson_and_jim_steiner/

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 05:46 PM
March 6:

Joint Statement from Chiefs President Carl Peterson and Jim Steiner
Mar 06, 2007, 3:28:16 PM

Over the past few weeks, Chiefs President Carl Peterson and Trent Green have met to discuss Trent’s future with the Kansas City Chiefs. Peterson and CAA Sports’ Jim Steiner have jointly issued the following statement regarding QB Trent Green. Peterson and Green met again yesterday afternoon to discuss Green’s future as a member of the Kansas City Chiefs.

“Conversations between the Chiefs and Trent Green about his future in Kansas City continue to be amicable and productive. The Chiefs have offered Trent the opportunity to remain with the organization with a restructured contract. However, before any decisions are finalized, the Chiefs have agreed to Trent’s request to allow him to explore other potential opportunities in the National Football League. We will continue to work in unison toward a resolution that will be acceptable to all parties.”


http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/03/06/joint_statement_from_chiefs_president_carl_peterson_and_jim_steiner/

So in other words, We would like for Green to stay here and compete for the job, and we would prefer for him to do it at a reduced salary, but he'd like to look into other opportunities at a guaranteed starting job so he has permission to look for a trade partner.

Where's the part about us voiding his contract, essentially cutting him, and not wanting him here?

If Green wants out, he has to play ball. If we want to not pay him then we have to play ball and cut him. But it is entirely within our rights to honor that contract if we want. He's got no right to go pissing all over it in order to get cut...

Mecca
04-30-2007, 05:47 PM
If his agent is saying those things odds are Trent wants him too...........

Looks like Trent is trying to make the decision himself without the Chiefs as in "I'm not playing there anymore"

orange
04-30-2007, 05:50 PM
...

Where's the part about us voiding his contract, essentially cutting him, and not wanting him here?
...

"welcome to stay with restructured contract" = "not welcome to stay with current contract"

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 05:59 PM
"welcome to stay with restructured contract" = "not welcome to stay with current contract"

The Chiefs have asked numerous players over the year to restructure, and a number of them have not agreed to do so. So we go to other players and ask them to restructure to account for it. It doesn't say there that we will not decide to keep him under current terms. Otherwise, what's the point of holding trade talks in the first place?

Granted, obviously we've indicated we prefer him to play for less and compete for a job if he does want to stay here, and he's indicated he doesn't want to do that. So we have two options: pay him his contract, or get rid of him.

Where in there does it indicate that we need to give Trent away for nothing because he "wants to play in Miami"?

orange
04-30-2007, 06:03 PM
What it indicates to me is that Trent asked to be released but CP said "No, we're not gonna do that, big guy. We OWN YOU till Sept., so go see if you can get someone to pony up some draft picks or something."

cdcox
04-30-2007, 06:05 PM
What it indicates to me is that Trent asked to be released but CP said "No, we're not gonna do that, big guy. We OWN YOU till Sept., so go see if you can get someone to pony up some draft picks or something."

Carl is awesome that way.

orange
04-30-2007, 06:06 PM
Green, Steiner, CP, and most of the posters on this board are laboring under a false impression of what Trent Green's value is. The rest of the NFL stated it loud and clear - a seventh-round draft pick.

cdcox
04-30-2007, 06:07 PM
Green, Steiner, CP, and most of the posters on this board are laboring under a false impression of what Trent Green's value is. The rest of the NFL stated it loud and clear - a seventh-round draft pick.

Fine. We're just saying that if that is the value, then it is worth more than that for us to keep him around, at least for now.

orange
04-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Fine. We're just saying that if that is the value, then it is worth more than that for us to keep him around, at least for now.

But he's not worth $7.2 million, even to the Chiefs. He will be cut if he doesn't restructure, it's just a question of when. Holding on to him through pre-season in the hopes someone's going to come to CP with hat in hand is just as unrealistic as CP's second rounder demand.

They should avoid all the bad will and just release him now.

cdcox
04-30-2007, 06:15 PM
But he's not worth $7.2 million, even to the Chiefs. He will be cut if he doesn't restructure, it's just a question of when. Holding on to him through pre-season in the hopes someone's going to come to CP with hat in hand is just as unrealistic as CP's second rounder demand.

They should avoid all the bad will and just release him now.

Yeah we should relase him now because there is zero chance one of our QBs could get injured and we might chnage our mind about Trent.

We should relase him now because there is zero chance that another team might have an injury and need Trent's services.

We should release him now so that he can be a better QB for the Dolphins, who are our competitor.

We should relase him now because the Dolphins aren't bluffing when they say they won't give more.

orange
04-30-2007, 06:19 PM
Yeah we should relase him now because there is zero chance one of our QBs could get injured and we might chnage our mind about Trent.

We should relase him now because there is zero chance that another team might have an injury and need Trent's services.

We should release him now so that he can be a better QB for the Dolphins, who are our competitor.

We should relase him now because the Dolphins aren't bluffing when they say they won't give more.

Exactly! Welcome to the light, young Jedi!


Seriously, the only argument of your four with any merit is #1 - injury insurance. But even that isn't worth $7.2 million. You've got Damon Huard and every other team will look for less expensive options than Green - every team that drafted a QB now has someone on their roster they would be willing to trade to a team that suffers an injury.

shaneo69
04-30-2007, 07:48 PM
I could be wrong, but I am under the impression that agents get paid at the signing of a contract, not per year based on the player's salary.

No, you're wrong.

From NFLPA.org...

Section 4. (B) 1) The maximum fee which may be charged or collected by a Contract Advisor shall be 3% of the "compensation" received by the player in each playing season covered by the contract negotiated by the Contract Advisor. As used in this section, the term "compensation" shall be deemed to include only salaries, signing bonuses, reporting bonuses, roster bonuses, and any performance incentives earned by the player during the term of the contract negotiated by the Contract Advisor.

Mark M
04-30-2007, 07:56 PM
I still don't understand what the hell Peterson's problem is ... okay, I do, and it's called "ego." But still.

Why not make the trade conditional: Take a conditional 6th (which, IIRC, is the best Miami offered), but if Trent throws for, say, more than 3,500 yard and/or 20+ TDs, it turns into a 3rd. If he makes the Pro Bowl, a 2nd. If he wins the SuperBowl, a 1st.

The rounds, yardage, etc. is up for debate, but something along those lines doesn't seem absurd or unreasonable.

Total lack of creativity on all sides, IMHO.

MM
~~:shrug:

listopencil
04-30-2007, 08:06 PM
So your team is trying to get some value out of your ex-starter QB via trade and he's ****ing it up? That's gotta be annoying.

Brock
04-30-2007, 08:09 PM
that's the maximum. some agents make 500 dollars per hour and that's it.

shaneo69
04-30-2007, 08:13 PM
that's the maximum. some agents make 500 dollars per hour and that's it.


Yeah, unless you have a link to anything at all that remotely implies that any agent has taken less than 3%, I'm gonna go ahead and call :BS:

Mecca
04-30-2007, 08:20 PM
If another team has an injury, if Trent is unwilling to change his contract, there is no trade option.

cdcox
04-30-2007, 08:29 PM
If another team has an injury, if Trent is unwilling to change his contract, there is no trade option.

I have to think that if a team like the Bears had their starter go down and wanted Trent to take over, he might be interested in getting a ring. People change their mind every day.

Brock
04-30-2007, 08:32 PM
Yeah, unless you have a link to anything at all that remotely implies that any agent has taken less than 3%, I'm gonna go ahead and call :BS:

Sports Agent Lon Babby uses this system with his clients, and while he may not make as much money with the same clients if he were to charge a percentage commission, the fact that he bills by the hour may have had an influence on his ability to acquire big names such as Grant Hill. No one knows exactly what Babby charges per hour but Liz Mullen notes that the hourly fee of a D.C.-based lawyer can be around $500 (Babby is based in D.C.) [Babby brings billable hours to baseball]. Babby claims that his practice saves his clients money overall.

It is said that Ray Allen saved himself over $2.8m by using Johnny Cochran at $500 an hour instead of paying a four per cent commission back in 1999 when negotiating his own contract with the Milwaukee Bucks [Allen’s example]. That is $2.8m that a Sports Agent would normally be acquiring in commission fees.


http://www.sportingo.com/more-sports/sports-agents:-how-they-should-be-paid/1001,1463

Anything else, smart guy?

DaWolf
04-30-2007, 08:34 PM
From NFLPA.org...

Section 4. (B) 1) The maximum fee which may be charged or collected by a Contract Advisor shall be 3% of the "compensation" received by the player in each playing season covered by the contract negotiated by the Contract Advisor. As used in this section, the term "compensation" shall be deemed to include only salaries, signing bonuses, reporting bonuses, roster bonuses, and any performance incentives earned by the player during the term of the contract negotiated by the Contract Advisor.

Thanks for clarifying! :thumb:

orange
04-30-2007, 08:42 PM
http://www.sportingo.com/more-sports/sports-agents:-how-they-should-be-paid/1001,1463

Anything else, smart guy?

Hey, that's great - for baseball and basketball players. Do you know of any football agents doing this?

Brock
04-30-2007, 08:48 PM
Hey, that's great - for baseball and basketball players. Do you know of any football agents doing this?

Well, since that took me all of 5 seconds to find, I doubt it would be hard to find some that aren't doing what "shaneo" says they all are. It should be pretty obvious that competition among agents is going to be what drives their fees, and not some maximum figure written in the union contract. But what do I know, I don't have the kinds of high level sources that "shaneo" does.

ChiefFan31
04-30-2007, 09:33 PM
It appears Green doesn't give a shit and his interest is ****ing the Chiefs to get out of here in any way possible......Everything he has done has favored Miami and taken leverage from us.

This post is umpteen pages back, but hits the nail on the head. In bold.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-30-2007, 10:07 PM
This whole thing is going to be a stale mate.

I can't really see MIA going into this season and throwing Beck to the wolves.

Chiefs are just playing poker right now. And IMO are doing a poor job of it. The grand daddy question of all of this is if Carl thinks that Trent is still a quality pro bowl qb in this league, then why don't we just keep him until he hangs them up? It's not a money issue because we can more than afford to have him on the roster starting for this club. IMO it's just stupid to ask MIA for a 2nd rounder for Green:

He's 37 years old making him the oldest starting QB in this league. Brett Favre I think we can all agree is like Chuck Norris meaning he doesn't age.

Trent came back from a terrible concussion to the point where his family was wanting him to hang it up. Trent came back and played and clearly wasn't the same. In practice he was fine and hitting Wr's routes etc according to coaches but in the games he played scared. In the 8 games that Trent Green started, he had only one good game and that was against CLE where our defense decided to piss down their legs that game. There was only one game where Trent Green didn't throw an INT.

Face it folks, Trent Green is a avg QB who played in a good offensive system with some of the greatest TE RB's and Olinemen this league has ever seen.


Who are you? Randy Mueller.