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View Full Version : Should the Chiefs have taken a true D-end instead of Mcbride?


Eric
05-01-2007, 02:20 PM
Like 6-4" 265Lbs Abiamari(spelling) from ND who went 2nd round to Philly.

The coach did say he's flexible by playing Dt on passing downs.

Good gamble passing up on true D-end?

Pestilence
05-01-2007, 02:20 PM
I think the flexibility of McBride is the reason he got picked. He can play DE while Allen is gone....and then bulk up a little bit and play DT once he comes back.

keg in kc
05-01-2007, 02:22 PM
I'm not sure another smaller (weight) DE would have made much sense with Allen and Hali both on the roster.

eazyb81
05-01-2007, 02:25 PM
His versatility is the reason we picked him. He can fill in at DE when Allen is out, and also slot in at undertackle on passing downs. Perfect pick for our system.

htismaqe
05-01-2007, 02:25 PM
I think McBride's future is inside at DT.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 02:25 PM
McBride is, potentially, a good fit for the Cover 2. I trust that Herm and his coaches know, better, what they are doing than I do. :shrug:

Chiefnj
05-01-2007, 02:28 PM
Yes. Or, a true DT.

Chris Meck
05-01-2007, 02:29 PM
nah, he's bigger than Allen, and big enough to play inside.

htismaqe
05-01-2007, 02:30 PM
Yes. Or, a true DT.

He is a true DT.

Eric
05-01-2007, 02:31 PM
Tank. no.5 DT.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/dt.html
68 tackles,9 tackles for loss,1 sack.

Abiamariri. 6th ranked Dend.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/de.html
43 tackles,15 tackles for loss,10.5 sacks.

blueballs
05-01-2007, 02:31 PM
Chili McBride

go bowe
05-01-2007, 02:33 PM
He is a true DT as opposed to someone being a false dt? :shrug:

Chiefnj
05-01-2007, 02:36 PM
He is a true DT.

Not really. He started off this season at end, which is also where he played as a freshman.

Eric
05-01-2007, 02:39 PM
D-end Tim crowder taken 2 spots after Mcbride by Denver.


Crowder "Doesn't have burst"
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/timcrowder.html

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/crowder_tim


Got to trust KUH and Herm.

ZootedGranny
05-01-2007, 02:40 PM
I understand the Chiefs sorely lack quality depth across the defensive line, but I was surprised they took a player that, by all descriptions, they already have in Wilkerson.

Hopefully he can put on some weight and replace Reed/Edwards in the starting rotation once Allen comes back from suspension.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 02:40 PM
Not really. He started off this season at end, which is also where he played as a freshman.

Do you remember a guy named Keith Traylor? Heh.

Also, NFL Defensive schemes require different types of position players.

McBride should be a good Cover 2, DT....because the scheme requires at least one of the DTs to be active, disruptive, and quick. That DT is not intended to take a OLineman one-on-one, but rather shoot the gaps...and take advantage of the other DT occupying two blockers. It also allows the coaches to move the DTs and DEs around more....creating confusion for the OLineman in their blocking assignments.

htismaqe
05-01-2007, 02:45 PM
Not really. He started off this season at end, which is also where he played as a freshman.

And?

He's versatile and was willing to play where the team needed him. Tamba Hali played defensive tackle at Penn State...

htismaqe
05-01-2007, 02:46 PM
I understand the Chiefs sorely lack quality depth across the defensive line, but I was surprised they took a player that, by all descriptions, they already have in Wilkerson.

Hopefully he can put on some weight and replace Reed/Edwards in the starting rotation once Allen comes back from suspension.

Wilkerson is a DE that they feel can play some at tackle.

McBride is a DT that they feel can play some at end.

Eric
05-01-2007, 02:49 PM
I understand the Chiefs sorely lack quality depth across the defensive line, but I was surprised they took a player that, by all descriptions, they already have in Wilkerson.

Hopefully he can put on some weight and replace Reed/Edwards in the starting rotation once Allen comes back from suspension.


Someone said Herm was about to say during the presser that he was way better than him but he stopped himself.

FreznoChief
05-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Someone said Herm was about to say during the presser that he was way better than him but he stopped himself.

Yeah, that's right he did. Herm did stop himself, but went on to talk about McBride's building being a little stockier and that it allowed him to play DT.

OctoberFart
05-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Do you remember a guy named Keith Traylor? Heh.

Also, NFL Defensive schemes require different types of position players.

McBride should be a good Cover 2, DT....because the scheme requires at least one of the DTs to be active, disruptive, and quick. That DT is not intended to take a OLineman one-on-one, but rather shoot the gaps...and take advantage of the other DT occupying two blockers. It also allows the coaches to move the DTs and DEs around more....creating confusion for the OLineman in their blocking assignments.


And in the meantime get run over by a power rushing game.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 03:23 PM
And in the meantime get run over by a power rushing game.

At times yes; other times it enables the active DT, the LBs, or a blitzing safety to make a tackle in the backfield for a loss. Risk, reward payoff, you know?

Especially when you OLine looks like, for example, the Raiders. :D

SNR
05-01-2007, 03:23 PM
I don't see Wilkerson playing much DE this season. Maybe in the first few games but after Allen comes back, the coaching staff will do as much as they can to prepare him primarily as a DT only.

eazyb81
05-01-2007, 03:25 PM
And in the meantime get run over by a power rushing game.

FYI, both teams in the Super Bowl this year ran a Cover 2.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 03:28 PM
I don't see Wilkerson playing much DE this season. Maybe in the first few games but after Allen comes back, the coaching staff will do as much as they can to prepare him primarily as a DT only.

IF Boone, Tank, and Edwards can occupy two blockers....for at least part of the play, I REALLY like Turk, Wilkerson, and Reed (and even Hali, in pass rushing situations) playing inside. They are all pretty active and quick....and potentially disruptive to the offensive backfield...IF the rest of the DLine does their jobs.

Those are a couple of important "ifs" though.

Tribal Warfare
05-01-2007, 03:33 PM
IF Boone, Tank, and Edwards can occupy two blockers....for at least part of the play, I REALLY like Turk, Wilkerson, and Reed (and even Hali, in pass rushing situations) playing inside. They are all pretty active and quick....and potentially disruptive to the offensive backfield...IF the rest of the DLine does their jobs.

Those are a couple of important "ifs" though.


With Hali and when Allen comes back we'll see more "falcon" plays too since KC beefed up the interior.

Cochise
05-01-2007, 03:37 PM
I think people just want to complain about the draft, and are looking through the same round for other guys who went at the position and posting "Why not this guy? Damnit Carl!"

El Jefe
05-01-2007, 03:39 PM
Someone said Herm was about to say during the presser that he was way better than him but he stopped himself.

I said it because if you watch it he almost says Turk is better than Wilkerson. He ends up saying Wilkerson is still developing.

OctoberFart
05-01-2007, 03:42 PM
FYI, both teams in the Super Bowl this year ran a Cover 2.
No sh!t. Wasn't saying Cover 2 is bad D just that playing small DT's won't be too effective for a full year. Colts were the exception due to that fact that their O is very good something the chiefs won't have.

El Jefe
05-01-2007, 03:43 PM
And in the meantime get run over by a power rushing game.

He is 6'2 278 and that is fine while filling in for Allen when he moves in to DT, he is gonna be a lot bigger than that. He isnt gonna get ran over at all, if you watch this guys film at 278 he throws some pretty big fellas around. Get him around 290 which is only 12 lbs more he will be able to handle his own. The when he gets there if you want bigger he could get bigger or maybe float around 285-290 while playing a little DE. Who knows if we have any injuries or anything like that. But you gotta love the versatility, which is the reason they picked him, you think CP said they almost traded up in the 2nd to make sure they got him. So you better believe they are gonna be using him a lot.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 03:49 PM
No sh!t. Wasn't saying Cover 2 is bad D just that playing small DT's won't be too effective for a full year. Colts were the exception due to that fact that their O is very good something the chiefs won't have.Since you aren't addressing the personnel issue, relative to the scheme....should I assume you don't know anything about Cover 2 responsibilities and assignments for the defensive tackles (or for the ends for that matter?) Because that really is the crux of the issue here. And you seem to be avoiding the issue, by talking only about the size of the DTs....big DTs are great for many Defenses. As the under tackle in a Cover 2 though, mobility, quickness, and first step are much more valuable. Turk has those.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 03:57 PM
Since you aren't addressing the personnel issue, relative to the scheme....should I assume you don't know anything about Cover 2 responsibilities and assignments for the defensive tackles (or for the ends for that matter?) Because that really is the crux of the issue here. And you seem to be avoiding the issue, by talking only about the size of the DTs....big DTs are great for many Defenses. As the under tackle in a Cover 2 though, mobility, quickness, and first step are much more valuable. Turk has those.

I guess AutumnWind doesn't understand coachspeak.... :)


(psssstt....dude; Google might be able to help you out if you don't understand the whole under tackle or Cover 2 concepts....)

eazyb81
05-01-2007, 03:59 PM
No sh!t. Wasn't saying Cover 2 is bad D just that playing small DT's won't be too effective for a full year. Colts were the exception due to that fact that their O is very good something the chiefs won't have.

Well no duh, no scheme is perfect.

Thanks for that nugget of info, Einstein.

Deberg_1990
05-01-2007, 04:04 PM
Chili McBride

Chi McBride??

OctoberFart
05-01-2007, 04:10 PM
As the under tackle in a Cover 2 though, mobility, quickness, and first step are much more valuable. Turk has those.


Those abilities aren't only for a Cover 2. You guys claim Cover 2 calls for smaller DT's just because the Colts do that but you aren't correct. Cover 2 now days is a Tampa 2 which employed big fast DL.

Deberg_1990
05-01-2007, 04:12 PM
Those abilities aren't only for a Cover 2. You guys claim Cover 2 calls for smaller DT's just because the Colts do that but you aren't correct. Cover 2 now days is a Tampa 2 which employed big fast DL.

Cover 2 or not.....either a guy can rush the passer or he cannot. WHo cares what size he is.

OctoberFart
05-01-2007, 04:18 PM
Cover 2 or not.....either a guy can rush the passer or he cannot. WHo cares what size he is.

That's what I'm saying not that a cover 2 prefers smaller DT's. Smaller DT's usually don't hold up for a full year and big DT's with quickness and pass rush abilities are few and far between so pick your medicine.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Those abilities aren't only for a Cover 2. You guys claim Cover 2 calls for smaller DT's just because the Colts do that but you aren't correct. Cover 2 now days is a Tampa 2 which employed big fast DL.
Undertackles from Atlanta, Tampa, and Indy:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133255

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235184

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/301990


Both Minnesota and Chicago have guys that are right around 300 lbs. Tank Johnson and Kevin Williams both came into the league around 290, IIRC.

So, yes, big and fast is better...but McBride has the frame to add some weight. So it's hardly a reach to think he can be a Johnson or Williams in a couple of years.

That's what I'm saying not that a cover 2 prefers smaller DT's. Smaller DT's usually don't hold up for a full year and big DT's with quickness and pass rush abilities are few and far between so pick your medicine.

The success of cover two schemes, of late....seems to suggest otherwise; IF, as Herm seems to be doing, you go with more of a rotation system to keep guys fresh. Guess we'll see.