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View Full Version : The NFLs lack of quality QBs


Otter
04-07-2001, 02:09 AM
To carry on an earlier discussion:

A couple of us were discussing why Brees is or is not going to be a quality NFL QB. I was arguing that he was very capable of being an NFL starter because of his intangibles. Smarts, leadership, experience, poise under fire, (Grbac?) ample physical abilities and again smarts: the ability to understand the game. The most common opposing argument I received was he is too short, not enough arm strength and not fast enough.

I say the biggest cause of the lack of top notch QBs is due to a lack of understanding of the game, immaturity and unable to adjust to the sudden, wealth, glamour and speed of the NFL. A certain minimum physical ability is needed as well, I can’t argue with that.

But there are plenty of potential QBs with the physical abilities. It’s the lack of “intangibles:” poise, leadership and understanding of the game (see above for complete list) that is causing the Elway, Marino and Montana-ish QBs to vanish.

What do you think is the cause of the lack of quality QBs in the NFL?

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2001, 02:31 AM
I believe it's more of the coaches fault,concerning a QB's readiness because everyone wants the next Elway . When QB's show hints of this greatness, coaches many times jump the gun and start the unreadied QB.


It will be interesting how Chad Pennington turns out , since he's under the tutelage of Testeverde.

Gary
04-07-2001, 10:19 AM
Also, too many "diaper dandies" are coming out of college too soon. Most QBOTF candidates have utilized their time in college wisely, instead of just hurrying through 1 1-2 to 2 years of starting in college straight to the draft and that almighty paycheck. That experience factor was most apparent when the Chargers chose a certain timebomb strickly because of physical ability...while the Colts chose a certain Pro Bowler of the future QB who had four full years of college experience!!! No one could ask for a more perfect example of how staying in college paid off!!

KCWolfman
04-07-2001, 10:24 AM
The FA market has instilled this issue as well as any other factor.

Teams have a win now attitude. The days of the power era are gone. No longer will Dan Marinos and Terry Bradshaws complete careers with one team.

SInce you don't keep players long enough, you have a win now mentality. If a player is slow to develop, he is dropped and moved to another team - where he has to start learning an entire new system and begin his vicious cycle all over again.

QB's quality will drop and skills positions with less thought involved (RB's and WR's) will increase in quality as schemes will become less involved and raw ability will become more important.

Gaz
04-07-2001, 11:12 AM
We need to understand that we have been spoiled for a decade. Elway, Marino, Bledsoe, Kelly, Favre, Montana. There was an amazing glut of great QBs and we expected that it would always be like that.

Is this truly a low point in NFL QBs, or is it just the morning after hangover?

xoxo~
Gaz
Too dam’ lazy to do the research.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2001, 01:41 PM
Another reason is the talent pool left from expansion, which has diluted the quality of talent in the NFL. We can look back at the dynasties that were created by Pittsburgh, Green Bay, 49ers, Cowboys. The talent is their, but it's scattered . This will only make moderate teams, not the great dynasties of the past.

Gaz
04-07-2001, 02:08 PM
How many truly great QBs are there right now?

I count [2].

1. Manning
2. Warner

Favre and Bledsoe are far past their prime.

Culpepper and McNabb have not prospered when forced to stay in the pocket. I feel that the running QB is another gimmick that evolving Defenses will thwart. I know that some folks disagree, and I admit that this is IMO and that I am a Defense Homer.

So, who have I missed that deserves the title of great? Who could stand toe to toe with Elway, Marino, Montana and Kelly?

xoxo~
Gaz
Sees a lot of average guys, but only a couple of real stars.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2001, 02:19 PM
I would add Brian Griese too, on the field he's a spitting image of his dad.

I also like McNabb, he carried the Eagles on his back. Similar to what Elway did in the 80's and early 90's.

I don't believe Bledsoe's past his prime, the man's 30 years old.

bkkcoh
04-07-2001, 02:47 PM
But if you really look at it, has there really been a time in the NFL in which there has been more than 2 or 3 stars as qb?? I am trying to think of a period of time in which that was the case, but really can't think of a time in which there was more than a couple real super stars in the league at the same time.

I know I am not thinking totally clear at this time, but I sure can't.

Please try to come up with the most super star qb's at the same time.

Good Luck...

stevieray
04-07-2001, 03:07 PM
I think the fact that QB's don't call their own plays anymore has a big effect on the position, and the game.

I't like having OnStar in your helmet. Ok, Elvis, you need to make a left 65 toss power trap...If Qb's were forced to really PLAY their position with more responsibility, the caliber of talent would rise.


With the refs singing in the background, Iwanna hold your hand....Are you ok?...need a bandaid?

Gaz
04-09-2001, 08:00 AM
ChiefPriority-

I would not put Griese in that category. He has lots of potential, but that repetitive shoulder injury will probably shorten his career considerably. He may yet prove me wrong on the injury front and carve out a spot next to Manning, but it is premature to put him there now.

Speaking from the far side of 40, let me assure you that I did not judge Bledsoe on his age, but on his production.

xoxo~
Gaz
Still counts only two premier QBs right now.

Mile High Mania
04-09-2001, 11:12 AM
I have one issue about this argument... when you talk about the NFL's lack of quality QBs, you shouldn't include guys like Elway, Montana, Young or Marino. Simply because those guys are in an elite class of QBs.

In today's NFL, I think there are several quality QBs. Despite your personal thoughts on certain QBs, the following guys put up great numbers pretty consistently:
Manning, Favre, Warner, Grbac, Johnson, Bledsoe, Brunell. Over the last several years, these guys have had great seasons and only time will tell if they begin to be compared with the greatest.

Then, you have another group of QBs that are on the fringe of hitting the upper tier: McNair, Culpepper, Gannon, Griese... Garcia (?), McNabb (?)... These guys have had at least one pretty damn good year and with the exception of Gannon, they're young and could move to the level of the Mannings and Favres.

Is there a lack of quality QBs in the NFL? Most definitely.
However, QBs like Elway, Young and Marino were in another zone and raised the bar incredibly high, even for young studs like Manning and Favre.

Right now, I don't think there is QB playing that is in the class of an Elway, Montana or Marino. Maybe Favre, he's probably the closest. Warner needs to string together another few years before I put him on that level. Last season, he wasn't "all world" and I'm not putting him in that elite class simply for what he accomplished in 1999.

Otter
04-09-2001, 03:35 PM
Mile High,

First let me say that I agree 100% that Warner cannot be put into the same catagory as Elway, Marino and Montana. Not because I'm slowly begining to hate the Rams organizations either (that would negate Elway by defalt :D ) but because his success was so short term and sudden. Plus the team had Marshal Faulk, Issac Bruce, Azahar Akim (spelling?). he never carried the team some years like the big boys did.

So your saying that what we are experiencing now is a "hangover" of great QBs and the league they were in cannot be achieved by any current or near future prospect?

Mile High Mania
04-09-2001, 03:59 PM
Yeah, pretty much... I think that Favre is the QB nearest that level and that Manning could some day be there.

Otter
04-09-2001, 04:20 PM
You'll get little argument from me. Although if that is correct the NFL may be in for a paradigm shift in offensive philosiphy to compensate.

I'd rather talk about stippers and easy money anyway!

ck_IN
04-09-2001, 07:08 PM
My take on this is basicly a culmination of several things already said and therefore probably usless, but oh well...

The reasons I see for the current QB dearth is five-fold

1. QB's leaving college too soon. There's no way Q. Carter and Vick should be leaving college this soon. Neither one really knows how to play this game.

2. Athletic QB's. QB's that are 'athletes' (see McNabb) rely so much on their athleticism that they don't learn the fundamentals. And college coaches wanting to get that bowl trophy and more booster money chase these athletes to the detriment or truely learning how the game is played.

3. Expansion and free agency have watered down the already low QB quality. Again fundamentals are hurt since coaches want to win before they lose their star player.

4. Whinny fans. We are all too ready to declare a player a bust before he ever dries behind the ears. We want our MTV, Mountain Dew and Super Bowls <b>NOW</b>. If a coach even dreamed of handing a top ten draftee a clipboard for his first two years, his office would be stampeded by the angry partisan mob. The kid, who's probably all of 23-24, would be labeled a bust, ran out of town and epithats spewed as he left. I'm not even going to get into the player that doesn't live up to our preconceived ideal of what he should be and do.

5. System and gimmick offenses. Football is a very simple game. Unfortunately some coaches dream up system or gimmicks to mask either a lack of talent or a lack of coaching. The former is understandable though it hurts the players. The latter is unforgivable and hurts the players even more. A QB prospers in this gimmick O, is thrust into the NFL with high expectations that he simply can't meet because his gimmick is now gone.

Tribal Warfare
04-09-2001, 11:30 PM
Athletic QB's. QB's that are 'athletes' (see McNabb) rely so much on their athleticism that they don't learn the fundamentals. And college coaches wanting to get that bowl trophy and more booster money chase these athletes to the detriment or truely learning how the game is played.


I believe McNabb, is a excellent QB with nothing around him. Like Elway in the 80's and early 90's.

keg in kc
04-09-2001, 11:52 PM
I'd agree. I think McNabb is an athletic quarterback, not an athlete who happens to be playing quarterback, if you get my meaning.

Mile High Mania
04-10-2001, 04:52 AM
I might hold off a few years before drawing any comparisons from McNabb to Elway in his Dan Reeves' years.

ck_IN
04-10-2001, 11:14 AM
Thank you Mile High. Let's see McNabb do it for a few seasons before anointing him. Actually a more accurate comparision in terms of my point might be McNair.

What I was driving at with that point is that QB's who are great atheletes rely on that athleticism rather than learn the fundamentals of the game. That may work fine in college where their fellow athletes may be lesser but in the pros where everyone is an athelete they're hampered and time is lost while they're forced to learn what they should've learned years before. Kordell Stewart is another prime example.

Tribal Warfare
04-10-2001, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by ck_IN
Thank you Mile High. Let's see McNabb do it for a few seasons before anointing him. Actually a more accurate comparision in terms of my point might be McNair.




Mcnabb is twice the QB that Mcnair is, he's more comparable to a Young Elway.

Chuck are saying it's wrong to use all the tools that a player naturally has? Montana was a technician but the guy was one of the most mobile QB's ever.

ck_IN
04-10-2001, 06:32 PM
Good Gawd!!! What is so freaking difficult about grasping the point I'm making?!!! I'm not sure how more obvious I can be with it.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being an athelete and playing QB. What I <b>AM</b> saying is that if you're an athelete you also need to know how to play your position and that means fundamentals. Montana was as refined in the fundamentals of his position as any QB I've seen. McNabb and McNair are not. Maybe they'll learn, maybe they won't.

My POINT IS: They shouldn't be in the NFL without already knowing those fundamentals.

NFL coaching shouldn't be needed for fundamentals by that point it should only be needed for refinement. If that isn't clear enough I guess I'll have to get out Frontpage and draw a picture. GAWD!!!!!

Tribal Warfare
04-10-2001, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by ck_IN


My POINT IS: They shouldn't be in the NFL without already knowing those fundamentals.

NFL coaching shouldn't be needed for fundamentals by that point it should only be needed for refinement. If that isn't clear enough I guess I'll have to get out Frontpage and draw a picture. GAWD!!!!!


How many times have you seen Mcnabb play? He can survey the field very well, Mcnabb doesn't have the players to help him. How many WR's can you name off their roster off your head??? McNabb will be a great QB, no comparison to Mcnair.