PDA

View Full Version : Russell, Rivers, Cutler and Croyle


blueballs
05-10-2007, 12:57 AM
Rivers and Cutler are sure to start
Russell and Croyle should start soon
rank 'em/rate 'em #1-#4 by season's end

Huffman83
05-10-2007, 01:05 AM
1. Rivers (just by experience alone)
2. Cutler

My 3/4 I have no clue. I want to say Croyle at #3, but I have faith in Huard (strange I know). W/ Russel I just want his head on a stick.

But you know...nothing personal.

Smed1065
05-10-2007, 01:06 AM
Cutler on a stick would be kewl as well!

blueballs
05-10-2007, 01:06 AM
mutlple choice
you can vote a tie
at #3

Huffman83
05-10-2007, 01:07 AM
Who am I kidding....Rivers, Cutler, Russel.

All heads belong on a stick.

SNR
05-10-2007, 01:19 AM
Going off of last year, Rivers was the best QB in the West out of those four. Then Cutler. Croyle and Russel will be unproven, but I give Croyle the edge because he has LJ and a good TE in Gonzalez, whereas Russell will pretty much be thrown out there and forced to do battle armed only with a toothpick. Against a pack of wolves.

ChiefJustice
05-10-2007, 01:27 AM
Man..this thread is depressing.

Direckshun
05-10-2007, 01:43 AM
This is the worst organized poll I've ever seen in my time on earth.

Guru
05-10-2007, 01:44 AM
This is the worst organized poll I've ever seen in my time on earth.
Required you to think did it? That must have hurt. :)

Direckshun
05-10-2007, 01:50 AM
That said, anybody who said Rivers is #1 should be punished. Rivers had a terrible year, surrounded by infallible talent.

Croyle's chief strength is poise and the ability to shed pressure. Rivers folds like a card table in the big games.

Cutler's got the market cornered this year in the AFC West.

Croyle will be a good leader with great intangibles and the ability to turn on the heat when he's properly protected. Experience will be a factor, but not by much -- this kid won't be shaken by the bright lights easily.

Russell will need another year or two before I begin to worry about him. He's got to get his rookie legs out from under him first, and that'll take some time.

Rivers' ability to get shaken can crumple not only the passing game, but the entire team. When this guy's rattled, it's everything LT can do to keep the team's head above water. When he's on, he's on, but he has the tendency to get freaked out and that lack of stability doesn't belong under center on my team.

#1 Cutler
#2 Croyle
#3 Russell
#4 Rivers

All four QBs have the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber some day. In about two years, this tandem will make the AFC West even more formidable than it was before.

Fruit Ninja
05-10-2007, 02:10 AM
Croyle 2 based on what? wow. lol

Rivers
Cutler
Russel
Croyle

I gave russel the nod just becuase he was the first over all draft pick and he's supposed to not suck.

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2007, 02:12 AM
Rivers looks like the real thing (but so did that fraud Roethlisberger).

Croyle is nothing but a question mark.

Cutler was put in the game too early, IMO, and he may suffer because of that decision.

Russell? I'll let you know later. I think he'll be a punchline three years from now, but I'm not willing to hang my hat on that assessment yet. Let's see if the kid can step up to the next level.

TinyEvel
05-10-2007, 02:25 AM
Apparently, none of you guys have seen Gaz's arm strength and poise.

Direckshun
05-10-2007, 02:47 AM
Croyle 2 based on what? wow. lol
Russell based on what? He's been through 20 minutes of pro drills.

Cutler based on what? His team spiraled out of playoff contention with him at the helm.

Fruit Ninja
05-10-2007, 03:00 AM
Russell based on what? He's been through 20 minutes of pro drills.

Cutler based on what? His team spiraled out of playoff contention with him at the helm.
Cutler based on a few good performanced he had last year. He has real nfl gaming experience.


Russell based on the fact he was the number 1 over all draft pick. Yes, i know he can be a bust, but so can Croyle. YOu give me a choice between Russell and Brodie, i would take Russell 10 out of 10 times.

Direckshun
05-10-2007, 03:28 AM
I'm not going to make the case against either QB, because I think all four QBs have the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber.

But I explained my reasoning.

Cutler #1 because he has shown many great QB qualities.

Brodie #2 because he is mentally NFL-ready, and has proven he can weather mediocre seasons and turn up the heat for great seasons.

Russell #3 because he's going to need a major adjustment period but possesses a skill set that will enable him to do so fairly well.

Rivers #4 because his biggest weakness is his mind, and if it wasn't for the insane talent surrounding him he'd have cost his teams more games by now.

htismaqe
05-10-2007, 05:56 AM
Cutler was put in the game too early, IMO, and he may suffer because of that decision.

Wow. Never thought I'd see that from a Bronco fan.

If I were a Bronco fan, I'd be concerned as to whether or not Cutler has what it takes upstairs to be a legit NFL QB.

I've been on record since before last year's draft - the guy has all-world talent and near-perfect measurables. But he's shown in the past that he has Brett Farve's guts but not the moxie that came with them...

tmax63
05-10-2007, 06:04 AM
I put Croyle ahead of Russell because he's had a year to learn on the sidelines. If he was a good student last year he won't be that far behind Cutler.

Hound333
05-10-2007, 06:20 AM
My order

1. Rivers - Sure he won't end up the best but next year he will. There is way to much talent around him on that team. There aren't many QB's that would fail on that team.

2. Cutler - He's shown flashes and we know he will be starting.

3. Russell - I picked him over Croyle only because I think he will start this year and I don't think Croyle will. I do think that Russell will lead the league in passes thrown from his ass.

4. Croyle - See above. I don't think he starts this year.

htismaqe
05-10-2007, 06:24 AM
4. Croyle - See above. I don't think he starts this year.

Don't kid yourself.

You know, where's Hootie?

First the Trent Green thread goes several days and now this one.

Sulking?

Hound333
05-10-2007, 06:27 AM
I honestly don't think he will start this year. I think we see Huard. At least until we are out of contention.

boogblaster
05-10-2007, 06:30 AM
Hope to see the kid start this year..if not where are we going?? if he can't start why bother......

htismaqe
05-10-2007, 06:31 AM
I honestly don't think he will start this year. I think we see Huard. At least until we are out of contention.

Do you think Huard is going to beat him out? Because according to everyone on the team, Croyle is the starter and it's his job to lose.

Direckshun
05-10-2007, 06:35 AM
I'm curious how you ranked them, htis, and why.

Hound333
05-10-2007, 06:35 AM
Look, I hope he does start. I wanted him to all off season. I just think Herm will end up going with the experienced guy this year to start with. If there have been links and statements that say Croyle is the #1 now then I will take it all back. I just never remember seeing anything except people talking like Croyle was the back-up this year.

I took the contract they gave Huard as a sign Green was out and Huard was a bridge to Croyle for a least a year.

InChiefsHell
05-10-2007, 06:56 AM
Cutler is going to make a splash this season. I think it was a good call for the Donks to put him in last year, even though it took them out of playoff contention. He needed experience, and they knew that Jake the Fake was not going to take them to a SB. This way, he as a half a season of playing time and will be much more comfortable this season. I hate to say it, but I think the Donks made the right call on Cutler. We'll see if it pans out.

htismaqe
05-10-2007, 07:08 AM
I'm curious how you ranked them, htis, and why.

I ranked them Rivers, Croyle, Cutler, and Russell, but I don't like the poll at all.

I don't think Rivers is a clear-cut #1 - he benefits mightily from LT.

I opted for Croyle 2nd, even though I don't think there will be separation between him and Cutler.

I don't like Cutler at all. He makes too many bad decisions. He's going to make some GREAT throws, but he's gonna throw some mind-boggling picks as well. In the end, I think they balance out and he's gonna be just average.

As for Croyle, he's gonna be in the exact opposite situation. They're gonna neuter the offense, run the ball over and over and over and try to limit his mistakes. In the end, he won't make the big numbers, but he also won't have the big mistakes (like Huard last year) making him, in the end, just average.

htismaqe
05-10-2007, 07:09 AM
Look, I hope he does start. I wanted him to all off season. I just think Herm will end up going with the experienced guy this year to start with. If there have been links and statements that say Croyle is the #1 now then I will take it all back. I just never remember seeing anything except people talking like Croyle was the back-up this year.

I took the contract they gave Huard as a sign Green was out and Huard was a bridge to Croyle for a least a year.

If Huard had any inclination he was gonna start, even for a year, he was stupid to sign that contract.

jlscorpio
05-10-2007, 07:19 AM
going off the assumption that Brodie starts, he and Cutler could go either way. I have Rivers slightly above them, strictly based on the fact that he has the best RB and at least 2nd best TE in the league. That being said, Norv could **** up a wet dream, so who the hell knows. Russell is a raw rookie on a lousy offensive team that has gotten used to losing, especially in the division, 'nuff said.

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 07:21 AM
I'm not convinced Rivers is anything special. He was showing big time signs of weakness at the end of last season, and he has a weak arm.

Cutler
Rivers
Croyle
Russell

Halfcan
05-10-2007, 08:02 AM
I am not impressed with Cuntler or Rivers.

JimNasium
05-10-2007, 08:06 AM
I'm trying to be a realist here so anyone who actually believes that Croyle will end up any better than number 3 is Pollyanna. I'm also skeptical that he will fare better than Russell but we won't know until we see him get some serious playing time.

Hound333
05-10-2007, 08:07 AM
I am actually least impressed with Rivers of the 4. He only tops my list right now because of the weapons he has on his team. If a few pieces start to leave via free agency or get old you will see him decline big time.

I think Cutler will be good once he learns to play in the league. He made some great throws and some bonehead ones. What rookie doesn't though. If he's still making those types of mental mistakes 2 years from now i will label him as junk. Right now I love his potential.

I don't know enough on Croyle or Russell. I will watch them more as we go into Pre-Season and beyond before snapping to judgement.

jAZ
05-10-2007, 08:33 AM
Cutler
Rivers
Russell
Croyle

el borracho
05-10-2007, 08:50 AM
1. Rivers- he has the most experience and the best supporting cast.
2. Cutler- 2nd most experience and second best supporting cast.
3. Russel- size and strength will help get him out of trouble.
4. Croyle- will be running for his life on 3rd downs.

vailpass
05-10-2007, 08:52 AM
Wow. Never thought I'd see that from a Bronco fan.

If I were a Bronco fan, I'd be concerned as to whether or not Cutler has what it takes upstairs to be a legit NFL QB.

I've been on record since before last year's draft - the guy has all-world talent and near-perfect measurables. But he's shown in the past that he has Brett Farve's guts but not the moxie that came with them...

WTF are you talking about? The kid has started one quarter of one season. Elway lined up behind gaurd his first season, I guess he lacked what it takes upstairs.
Sounds like you are engaging in some wishful thinking rather than thought-out critique.

Buehler445
05-10-2007, 09:38 AM
Russell has -5% of an offense to work with. He is definitely number 4 in this speculation. Potential? Absolutely. But likely to have the worst season. Opposite for Rivers. Len Dawson could crawl out of the booth and hand off to LT and have a great season. Cutler has a little experience, so a slight edge over Croyle.

Mr. Laz
05-10-2007, 09:39 AM
croyle will probably be lucky to survive this year so it's kind of hard to grade.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 10:32 AM
Keep in mind this is for next year, not the future.

Cutler
Croyle
Rivers
Russell

Cutler is going to be good.

Croyle has a distinct advantage over Russell because he's at least been in the league a year and has (hopefully) learned the plays and what it will take to compete. He had Trent Green to learn from. LJ, Tony G, and our now decent receivers should help although we will have to see about the line.

Rivers struggled BAD under pressure last year, he had a decent year because he played for SD. Who wouldn't look good with LT and Gates? He will probably have a good stat year, but that doesn't necessarily make him a better QB.

Russell has the tools to be a great QB SOMEDAY. Not this year. Not behind that line. Not with those receivers. Not with his current intelligence and decision making.

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 10:33 AM
croyle will probably be lucky to survive this year so it's kind of hard to grade.

Croyle gets rid of the ball alot quicker than Green.

bogie
05-10-2007, 10:49 AM
Croyle gets rid of the ball alot quicker than Green.

So did Huard.

LTforMVP
05-10-2007, 10:51 AM
I love the ignorance of redneck planet.

Rivers in pressure situations:


4th Q: +/- 3 pts:
20 for 28 205 yards 1 TD 0 INT 104.0 QB Rating
4th Q: +/- 7 pts.
39 for 59 434 yards 3 TD 0 INT 104.8 QB Rating

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 10:55 AM
LTforMVP, even you can't deny that Rivers took a nosedive at the end of last season. He was horrible, and KC's bitch on Sunday Night football. You have to be concerned.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 10:56 AM
Pressure meaning a good pass rush. Remember the Chiefs game where he got so frustrated he tried to rip his helmet off without taking off his chin strap?

LTforMVP
05-10-2007, 11:04 AM
He had a bad game on SNF that doesn't mean you ignore the entire season of work.

It would be like me saying Larry Johnson is the worst RB in the division because he couldn't handle the pressure against the Colts.

the Talking Can
05-10-2007, 11:05 AM
hmmm...by season's end

Cutler
Rivers
.
.
.
.
Croyle/Russell...both rookies, big learning pains

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 11:10 AM
He had a bad game on SNF that doesn't mean you ignore the entire season of work.

It would be like me saying Larry Johnson is the worst RB in the division because he couldn't handle the pressure against the Colts.

Rivers faded down the stretch, not just in the game against the Chiefs.

He had awful games against Oakland, Kansas City and Seattle. He was mediocre against the Bills and didn't have a very good playoff game either.

Teams had started to figure him out by season's end.

Easy 6
05-10-2007, 11:10 AM
It would be like me saying Larry Johnson is the worst RB in the division because he couldn't handle the pressure against the Colts.

With the way the rest of the O was playing & the calls that were being made...the love child of Jim Brown & Barry Sanders would have fared no better.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 11:12 AM
He had a bad game on SNF that doesn't mean you ignore the entire season of work.

It would be like me saying Larry Johnson is the worst RB in the division because he couldn't handle the pressure against the Colts.

I haven't seen all the SD games so I go by what I have. I've seen him crack when he's being pressured. I don't think he's a bad QB, but I do think he has a lot of trouble in that area. He totally lost his composure in the middle of a game and great QBs just don't do that.

Chief Nute
05-10-2007, 11:13 AM
Rivers

Cutler








Russell


























Croyle



Sorry guys.......anyone who has Croyle any higher than 4th is living in Homerland.

So let me get this straight, you have 4 young QB's....of which 2 of them played on pretty good football teams already; Rivers who played an entire season at a high level (albeit with a lot of talent behind him), and Cutler who is very raw, but probably has more natural ability than all of the other 3 combined.

Then you have JaMarcus Russell, who while I think he makes poor decisions, and could be a big bust, was still the #1 overall pick in the draft, and people who know the game WAY more than myself or anyone on this message board thought very highly of him.

Then you have Brodie Croyle.......who was drafted in the late 3rd round (might have been a round higher if not for injury history), who has some talent, but is skinny, doesnt have great foot speed, and when thrown out there last year looked like a deer in headlights.

So lets see.......Croyle ranks probably 3rd in arm strength, probably 4th in foot speed/scrambling, seems to be a smart kid and was rated highly for intelligence, so possibly 2nd in decision making, 4th in size/endurance. But some guys think he is the 2nd best option at QB in the West........wow.

caffeinated_virus
05-10-2007, 11:13 AM
I'm not going to make the case against either QB, because I think all four QBs have the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber.

But I explained my reasoning.

Cutler #1 because he has shown many great QB qualities.

Brodie #2 because he is mentally NFL-ready, and has proven he can weather mediocre seasons and turn up the heat for great seasons.

Russell #3 because he's going to need a major adjustment period but possesses a skill set that will enable him to do so fairly well.

Rivers #4 because his biggest weakness is his mind, and if it wasn't for the insane talent surrounding him he'd have cost his teams more games by now.

Rivers at the bottom? Guy starts his first year and makes it to the pro-bowl and has the top 4th quarter rating in the league.

Cutler #1...Brodie #2...

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

Thanks.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 11:17 AM
Sorry guys.......anyone who has Croyle any higher than 4th is living in Homerland.

So let me get this straight, you have 4 young QB's....of which 2 of them played on pretty good football teams already; Rivers who played an entire season at a high level (albeit with a lot of talent behind him), and Cutler who is very raw, but probably has more natural ability than all of the other 3 combined.

Then you have JaMarcus Russell, who while I think he makes poor decisions, and could be a big bust, was still the #1 overall pick in the draft, and people who know the game WAY more than myself or anyone on this message board thought very highly of him.

Then you have Brodie Croyle.......who was drafted in the late 3rd round (might have been a round higher if not for injury history), who has some talent, but is skinny, doesnt have great foot speed, and when thrown out there last year looked like a deer in headlights.

So lets see.......Croyle ranks probably 3rd in arm strength, probably 4th in foot speed/scrambling, seems to be a smart kid and was rated highly for intelligence, so possibly 2nd in decision making, 4th in size/endurance. But some guys think he is the 2nd best option at QB in the West........wow.

Croyle has a rocket arm. I would say he will be able to make any throw we ask him to.

Croyle is not a bad scrambler. There was a video in some other thread that I'm too lazy to find but he would actually successfully juke defenders.

And you also have to think... are scrambling and size as important as decision making?

I value decision making pretty highly in a QB. Endurance is certainly a concern, though.

Easy 6
05-10-2007, 11:20 AM
Croyle ranks probably 3rd in arm strength

You are mistaking a slight build for lack of arm, all of the highlights i've seen says this guy has a cannon. He's EVERY bit the bomber Rivers is & maybe a notch below Cutler...maybe.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 11:24 AM
scott free

You do realize that would make him 3rd in arm strength right?

But really I don't think arm strength is even an issue in this argument. I think they all have great arms. Some marginally better, but no big difference as in decision making.

LTforMVP
05-10-2007, 11:25 AM
Rivers faded down the stretch, not just in the game against the Chiefs.

He had awful games against Oakland, Kansas City and Seattle. He was mediocre against the Bills and didn't have a very good playoff game either.

Teams had started to figure him out by season's end.

QB Rating by game

Week 10 @ Cin: 124.5
Week 11 @ Den: 92.1
Week 12 Oak : 42.1
Week 13 @ BUF : 85.4
Week 14 DEN: 136.0
Week 15 KC 12.4
Week 16 @ SEA 77.2
Week 17 ARI 117.2

Awesome, Awesome, Bad, Good, Awesome, Very Bad, Average, Awesome

I don't really see a trend

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 11:26 AM
All of these rankings don't take into account what's upstairs. There's a very good chance Croyle's got the best mental game of all four quarterbacks. That will carry him much further than arm strength or freakin' foot speed.

Chief Nute
05-10-2007, 11:27 AM
Croyle has a rocket arm. I would say he will be able to make any throw we ask him to.

Croyle is not a bad scrambler. There was a video in some other thread that I'm too lazy to find but he would actually successfully juke defenders.

And you also have to think... are scrambling and size as important as decision making?

I value decision making pretty highly in a QB.


I agree. Croyle does have a nice arm, however, in this poll he is against 2 other guys with stronger arms......Cutler has a great arm and Russell is superhuman with arm strength.

And I would take a "smart" decision maker over a guy with all of the physical tools everyday of the year......I just dont think that Croyle has the total package.....and you need more than just smarts. I really would find it hard to believe that with a couple of torn ACL's in each leg that he has the ability to be really agile in the pocket.

Croyle was a late 3rd rounder for a reason.....and it isnt ALL because of the injury problems. It is because he doesnt quite have the tools that the other 3 have.

Easy 6
05-10-2007, 11:27 AM
scott free

You do realize that would make him 3rd in arm strength right?

But really I don't think arm strength is even an issue in this argument. I think they all have great arms. Some marginally better, but no big difference as in decision making.

Right, they are all hovering a bit below Russell in that column.

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 11:28 AM
QB Rating by game

Week 10 @ Cin: 124.5
Week 11 @ Den: 92.1
Week 12 Oak : 42.1
Week 13 @ BUF : 85.4
Week 14 DEN: 136.0
Week 15 KC 12.4
Week 16 @ SEA 77.2
Week 17 ARI 117.2

Awesome, Awesome, Bad, Good, Awesome, Very Bad, Average, Awesome

I don't really see a trend

I really don't care about quarterback rating. Are you denying that Rivers was playing worse by season's end? Compared to how he started, it was clear the amount of film on him was making a difference. The other teams were starting to figure him out. I saw the same thing happen to Damon Huard.

LTforMVP
05-10-2007, 11:34 AM
I really don't care about quarterback rating. Are you denying that Rivers was playing worse by season's end? Compared to how he started, it was clear the amount of film on him was making a difference. The other teams were starting to figure him out. I saw the same thing happen to Damon Huard.

It sure didn't help Denver when the Chargers faced them the second time around.

To make a blanket statement that he folds under pressure or faded away in the second half of the season is factually incorrect.

Truth be told he probably had his worst games against the Chiefs so I shouldn't be surprised by some of the misinformation of this thread. I would imagine if this same thread was taken to the Broncos forums you wouldn't find so many Rivers doubters.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 11:35 AM
I agree. Croyle does have a nice arm, however, in this poll he is against 2 other guys with stronger arms......Cutler has a great arm and Russell is superhuman with arm strength.

And I would take a "smart" decision maker over a guy with all of the physical tools everyday of the year......I just dont think that Croyle has the total package.....and you need more than just smarts. I really would find it hard to believe that with a couple of torn ACL's in each leg that he has the ability to be really agile in the pocket.

Croyle was a late 3rd rounder for a reason.....and it isnt ALL because of the injury problems. It is because he doesnt quite have the tools that the other 3 have.
That's fair enough. I just wanted to point out that it wasn't a huge gap in arm strength. I do however believe there are huge gaps in handling a pass rush and decision making in Croyle's favor compared to Rivers and Russell respectively.

That's why I think that rating system of 1-4 is a little skewed.

Count Zarth
05-10-2007, 11:39 AM
For what it's worth Croyle and Cutler BOTH had horrible offensive lines in college. Only one of them went to a Bowl game...I'll let you guys fill in the blank.

bdeg
05-10-2007, 11:39 AM
Truth be told he probably had his worst games against the Chiefs so I shouldn't be surprised by some of the misinformation of this thread. I would imagine if this same thread was taken to the Broncos forums you wouldn't find so many Rivers doubters.
Good call. You're probably right. Do you think Rivers would be a good QB if he had just average players around him? Honestly just looking for an unbiased opinion from someone who has seen more of him than I have.

SNR
05-10-2007, 12:24 PM
I love the ignorance of redneck planet.

Rivers in pressure situations:


4th Q: +/- 3 pts:
20 for 28 205 yards 1 TD 0 INT 104.0 QB Rating
4th Q: +/- 7 pts.
39 for 59 434 yards 3 TD 0 INT 104.8 QB RatingYour boy is in 1st place according to the poll.

Retard.

easymobee
05-10-2007, 12:33 PM
This would have been a much more interesting ( It still is interesting now ) poll had the Chiefs taken Brady Quinn.

When it became obvious that minus a trade he would be there for you guys ( i do think that KC would have chosen him) i was envisioning a situation where the AFC West would be manned by 4 high 1st round QB's all starting their careers within a year or 2 of each other. My reasoning being that Quinn should have been a top 12 1st rounder ... he's not an Aaron Rodgers in my book.

As much as i would have hated to see KC get a free gift like that i think it would have been an interesting subplot for years to come and really i do actually wish it would have happened.

Imagine if Marino, Elway, Kelly, and Blackledge (theres gotta be at least one bust in the bunch) had all been drafted into the same division out of college.

Now if Vermeil was still your coach, then i think it would all be more of a wash and you'd have to upgrade Croyle based on that fact (as long as he was gonna be Vermeil's guy).

shrek6849
05-10-2007, 12:36 PM
Croyle #2 without taking a snap? rofl

ClevelandChief
05-10-2007, 12:40 PM
Rivers looks like the real thing (but so did that fraud Roethlisberger).

Croyle is nothing but a question mark.

Cutler was put in the game too early, IMO, and he may suffer because of that decision.

Russell? I'll let you know later. I think he'll be a punchline three years from now, but I'm not willing to hang my hat on that assessment yet. Let's see if the kid can step up to the next level.


how dare you steal my name idea.

LTforMVP
05-10-2007, 12:44 PM
Good call. You're probably right. Do you think Rivers would be a good QB if he had just average players around him? Honestly just looking for an unbiased opinion from someone who has seen more of him than I have.

Thats hard to say. I've only seen him play with the team he currently has around them.

Brees played with much of the same teammates and put up 3576 yards 24 TDs and 15 INTs his last year with the team.

Rivers ended the season with 3388 yards 22 TDs and 9 INTs.

Rivers enjoyed better protection from LT Marcus Mcneil while Brees worked with more healthy receiving options.

easymobee
05-10-2007, 12:45 PM
Rivers should win this poll based on his 1st year record and success, but i think i speak for Bronco and Chiefs fans in that he never really scared us when our teams were getting ready to play the Chargers.

When i think Chargers, i think ....

1. LT
2. Gates
3. Merriman
4. J. Williams, Igor, Castillo
5. Good O-Line
6. M. Turner
7. Fond rememberances of Darren Bennet's tackling skills
8. my childhood fandom of Gary Anderson ( the RB ) and to a lesser extent James Brooks.
9. Whatever happened to Stanley Richard
10. Phillip Rivers
11. Quentin Jammer
12. Codeine cough syrup and how its the silver lining of coming down with Bronchitis
13. SD's WR Corps
14. I wonder again who drafted Dwayne Jarrett and i try to remember LSU's other 1st round WR's name .... ( i really can't remember )

crazycoffey
05-10-2007, 01:02 PM
Croyle
Shivers
Cuntler
Bustell


I'm a homer.....

2bikemike
05-10-2007, 02:59 PM
I think Croyle will have the weakest group of Receivers and possibly the worst O-line. Of Course Russell may have the same problem as far as O-line goes.

Rivers
Cutler
Croyle
Russell

bdeg
05-10-2007, 03:07 PM
I think Croyle will have the weakest group of Receivers and possibly the worst O-line. Of Course Russell may have the same problem as far as O-line goes.

Rivers
Cutler
Croyle
Russell

IMO our receivers are now better than SD's or Oakland's. Jerry Porter is overrated and SD reached for Craig Davis. And Russell won't have a great TE like we and SD do.

I don't think our receivers are great or even really good. But besides Denver receivers don't seem to be the AFCW's strong suit.

OctoberFart
05-10-2007, 04:22 PM
I am not impressed with Cuntler or Rivers.
might as well throw Russell in their since you are such a homer and would never have anything good to say about a divisonal QB.

OctoberFart
05-10-2007, 04:26 PM
All of these rankings don't take into account what's upstairs. There's a very good chance Croyle's got the best mental game of all four quarterbacks. That will carry him much further than arm strength or freakin' foot speed.
HOmer on FAG, I hear LJ calling for you to get on your knees again.

Rivers already went 14-2

Cutler looks like the best tools of the bunch and a system that will make him decent or he will be out of the league.

Russell best tools of any QB coming out.

















Croyle completed almost as many passes to the other team as his own. He has a long way to go before he is even an average QB.

Keep homering on chef fans.

OctoberFart
05-10-2007, 04:28 PM
For what it's worth Croyle and Cutler BOTH had horrible offensive lines in college. Only one of them went to a Bowl game...I'll let you guys fill in the blank.


Isn't football a team game?

Brock
05-10-2007, 04:30 PM
Russell is a bust, guaranteed. The guy is a tard.

stevieray
05-10-2007, 04:35 PM
Russell is a bust, guaranteed. The guy is a tard.

seriously?

but..he was in college...

Fruit Ninja
05-10-2007, 04:37 PM
That's fair enough. I just wanted to point out that it wasn't a huge gap in arm strength. I do however believe there are huge gaps in handling a pass rush and decision making in Croyle's favor compared to Rivers and Russell respectively.

That's why I think that rating system of 1-4 is a little skewed.
How do you get that? he was put in a game at the end of a game, and he threw 2 interceptions. That for him was a pressure situation to perform well with the little time he had. He completely crumbled.

How the hell people have Croyle in any other position but 4th is just crazy.

Brock
05-10-2007, 04:46 PM
Todd Marinovich looked great in his first game, so the **** what.

ClevelandBronco
05-10-2007, 05:01 PM
how dare you steal my name idea.

Shouldn't you be YoungstownChief?

htismaqe
05-10-2007, 07:46 PM
WTF are you talking about? The kid has started one quarter of one season. Elway lined up behind gaurd his first season, I guess he lacked what it takes upstairs.
Sounds like you are engaging in some wishful thinking rather than thought-out critique.

Seeing it in just about every scouting report leading up to the draft isn't "wishful thinking".

SNR
05-10-2007, 07:58 PM
How do you get that? he was put in a game at the end of a game, and he threw 2 interceptions. That for him was a pressure situation to perform well with the little time he had. He completely crumbled.

How the hell people have Croyle in any other position but 4th is just crazy.Yeah, sure. His first time taking a snap in a real NFL game and it's on the road against a team that then had their backs to the walls with a great defense and Kansas City is already down several TDs.

Yep, Croyle didn't perform well. He sucks. Horribly. I don't see any possible way he could get better. At all.

:rolleyes:

This goes beyond Mecca pessimism. Mecca usually makes sense. What you posted is just plain retarded.

Logical
05-10-2007, 08:13 PM
I am shocked to see the Planet being so realistic.

SNR
05-10-2007, 08:23 PM
I am shocked to see the Planet being so realistic.WE'RE ALL RETARDS!! CROYLE NEEDS TO HAVE 5000 MORE 4TH PLACE VOTES. WE'RE HOMERS

SoCalBronco
05-10-2007, 08:31 PM
1. Cutler
2. Rivers
3. Croyle
4. Russell

OctoberFart
05-10-2007, 09:53 PM
Russell is a bust, guaranteed. The guy is a tard.
Then what do you honestly think of Brodie "China Doll" Croyle?

KCqueefs
05-10-2007, 11:09 PM
That said, anybody who said Rivers is #1 should be punished. Rivers had a terrible year, surrounded by infallible talent.

Croyle's chief strength is poise and the ability to shed pressure. Rivers folds like a card table in the big games.

Cutler's got the market cornered this year in the AFC West.

Croyle will be a good leader with great intangibles and the ability to turn on the heat when he's properly protected. Experience will be a factor, but not by much -- this kid won't be shaken by the bright lights easily.

Russell will need another year or two before I begin to worry about him. He's got to get his rookie legs out from under him first, and that'll take some time.

Rivers' ability to get shaken can crumple not only the passing game, but the entire team. When this guy's rattled, it's everything LT can do to keep the team's head above water. When he's on, he's on, but he has the tendency to get freaked out and that lack of stability doesn't belong under center on my team.

#1 Cutler
#2 Croyle
#3 Russell
#4 Rivers

All four QBs have the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber some day. In about two years, this tandem will make the AFC West even more formidable than it was before.

Rivers last? I guess you forgot about the part where he won the division. Rivers wins 14 games and you rate him below Croyle? Did you watch that game against the steelers last year? I see it Rivers, Cutler, Russell, then Croyle. Russell might not take a snap this year. Croyle might not take another snap. Ever.

Direckshun
05-10-2007, 11:21 PM
Rivers last?
*checks watch*

Oh why not. I've got some time for a penis-measuring contest with a noob.
I guess you forgot about the part where he won the division. Rivers wins 14 games and you rate him below Croyle?
This isn't "which QB won the most games," and this isn't "who's on the best team." It's "who's the best QB."

Rivers is behind an ironclad offensive line with a mammoth blocking FB and the best RB in football, with decent WRs and one of the top 3 TEs in football. He was completely impotent against the Chiefs when they visited San Diego and the Chargers still won 20 to 9.

Practically any QB in the league can do well with what he's surrounded with.

He's a good QB, but he needs to stop buckling under pressure for him to fare better than Cutler, Croyle, and Russell. If he gets his head on straight he'll be a Pro Bowler before he retires.
Did you watch that game against the steelers last year?
Yeah, I watched the whole thing.

To directly quote SNR not five posts before yours: "His first time taking a snap in a real NFL game and it's on the road against a team that then had their backs to the walls with a great defense and Kansas City is already down several TDs." I don't excuse Croyle's poor play, but I can explain it rationally enough to say he has the potential to be a great QB.
Croyle might not take another snap. Ever.
The odds that Croyle doesn't take a snap for the Chiefs next year is roughly the same as Rivers not taking one for the Chargers.

Want to bet something on that?

Mr. Flopnuts
05-10-2007, 11:52 PM
Then what do you honestly think of Brodie "China Doll" Croyle?


Your smack doesn't make me laugh very often. This one is pretty funny.

KCqueefs
05-11-2007, 12:11 AM
*checks watch*

Oh why not. I've got some time for a penis-measuring contest with a noob.

This isn't "which QB won the most games," and this isn't "who's on the best team." It's "who's the best QB."

Rivers is behind an ironclad offensive line with a mammoth blocking FB and the best RB in football, with decent WRs and one of the top 3 TEs in football. He was completely impotent against the Chiefs when they visited San Diego and the Chargers still won 20 to 9.

Practically any QB in the league can do well with what he's surrounded with.

He's a good QB, but he needs to stop buckling under pressure for him to fare better than Cutler, Croyle, and Russell. If he gets his head on straight he'll be a Pro Bowler before he retires.

Yeah, I watched the whole thing.

To directly quote SNR not five posts before yours: "His first time taking a snap in a real NFL game and it's on the road against a team that then had their backs to the walls with a great defense and Kansas City is already down several TDs." I don't excuse Croyle's poor play, but I can explain it rationally enough to say he has the potential to be a great QB.

The odds that Croyle doesn't take a snap for the Chiefs next year is roughly the same as Rivers not taking one for the Chargers.

Want to bet something on that?

So your saying Rivers cant be taken seriously because he has good offensive line with a top notch running back and a top notch tight end? Hmmmmm... sound familiar? I would take your bet but your right, Huard could always get hurt. And I hardly consider the Steelers a great defense.

XXXshogunXXX
05-11-2007, 12:11 AM
blah..i dont wanna spend too much time in this thread...but rivers' supporting talent shoudlnt be a negative towards him.... and who the fck besides chiefs fans would have croyle in his place, crazy.

Alot of you maginified his game at the chiefs way too much....he played 14 other games.

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 12:36 AM
So your saying Rivers cant be taken seriously because he has good offensive line with a top notch running back and a top notch tight end?
No, I'm not.

I'm saying he's surrounded by all world talent and he still breaks down mentally from time to time.

He's the AFC West's Rex Grossman.

KcMizzou
05-11-2007, 12:43 AM
He's the AFC West's Rex Grossman.Now that's just silly.

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 01:09 AM
Now that's just silly.
On what planet?

Rivers gets rattled, he's done for the game. It turns into the Chargers vs. their QB.

Rivers gets on a roll, he's good for the game. It's the Charger's to lose.

Rivers on, Rivers off. It's two personalities and either one could show up at any given game.

blueballs
05-11-2007, 01:13 AM
I didn't get a very good impression of Rivers
Cutler-I haven't watched any Bronco games
Russell-Unknown to me
Croyle-surprised to see him rated above Russell
though just slightly

LTforMVP
05-11-2007, 01:24 AM
On what planet?

Rivers gets rattled, he's done for the game. It turns into the Chargers vs. their QB.

Rivers gets on a roll, he's good for the game. It's the Charger's to lose.

Rivers on, Rivers off. It's two personalities and either one could show up at any given game.

Sounds like Larry Johnson

Only 31 total yards Week 6 at PIT and only 61 yards in the playoff game against the Colts.

You never know which running back is going to show up. He is obviously very inconsistent

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 01:36 AM
Sounds like Larry Johnson

Only 31 total yards Week 6 at PIT and only 61 yards in the playoff game against the Colts.

You never know which running back is going to show up. He is obviously very inconsistent
What the hell does this have to do with Rivers vs. Croyle?

GOD you Charger fans are just sorry. I'm sorry.

Raider fans toss shit pretty well, and Bronco fans know football.

But you guys just make me sad for football.

LTforMVP
05-11-2007, 01:39 AM
What the hell does this have to do with Rivers vs. Croyle?

GOD you Charger fans are just sorry. I'm sorry.

Raider fans toss shit pretty well, and Bronco fans know football.

But you guys just make me sad for football.

Rivers had two bad games (sub 70 QB Rating) last year vs KC and OAK

Just like Tom Brady who had bad games against Indy and Miami

and Peyton Manning who struggled against Dallas and the Jaguars

Grossman on the other hand had 7 games with a sub 70 rating.

Guess how many Kansas City Chiefs QBs had...

.

Guru
05-11-2007, 01:40 AM
What the hell does this have to do with Rivers vs. Croyle?

GOD you Charger fans are just sorry. I'm sorry.

Raider fans toss shit pretty well, and Bronco fans know football.

But you guys just make me sad for football.
:bravo:

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 01:55 AM
Rivers had two bad games (sub 70 QB Rating) last year vs KC and OAK

Sounds like Tom Brady who had bad games against Indy and Miami

and Peyton Manning who struggled against Dallas and the Jaguars

Must be a lot Rex Grossman clones representing the AFC in the probowl
Lord. Where to start.

Here, it's late and I'm bored, so I'll help you make a more convincing argument that would show you've been following football longer than the three years the Chargers have been successful.

First of all, LJ had a lot more bad games than just two last year. He struggled for nearly half the season when the OL couldn't get the job done. Denver, San Fran, Miami... he was shut down quite a few times.

Second of all, you listed the teams Manning struggled against but failed to mention the Titans, who not only upset the Colts late in the season but lost to them by one point during the Colts' hot streak. The Titans had Manning's number more than anybody.

You can say "Everybody has off games, Direckshun. I don't blame Rivers for having two (laugh) bad games long as he connected on the other fourteen -- that's far more than LJ can say."

You'll continue to say "And you no doubt have endless respect for Peyton Manning, everybody's favorite QB, despite the fact that your team was giving him fits in the playoff game until the defense wore out. He got shook up, too, yet he wouldn't bottom out your list of AFC West QBs, would he?"

You can then capitalize your argument by actually making a case for Rivers. Something you guys don't do.

Try saying something like "Our QB led us on two stellar comebacks on back-to-back weeks. Rivers didn't blink when the Bengals had us down 28-7 at halftime, and he led us to six drives that ended in touchdowns -- that is a level of efficiency that can't be had with just any QB. That's 42 points in the second half! And that's just one of the numerous fourth quarter comebacks that Rivers brought."

Then maybe throw in a higher-ground, holier-than-thou appraisal for my point of view while still insulting it. "You know, Direckshun, for a guy who seems to live on this goddamn board, you seem blind to the general ongoings of the league outside of your team. While Croyle may yet turn out to be a decent QB, that doesn't cancel out the fact that Rivers is a Pro Bowler who's got prime experience, talent, and team."

LTforMVP
05-11-2007, 02:03 AM
Lord. Where to start.

Here, it's late and I'm bored, so I'll help you make a more convincing argument that shows you've been following football longer than the three years the Chargers have been successful.

First of all, LJ had a lot more bad games than just two last year. He struggled for nearly half the season when the OL couldn't get the job done. Denver, San Fran, Miami... he was shut down quite a few times.

Second of all, you listed the teams Manning struggled against but failed to mention the Titans, who not only upset the Colts late in the season but lost to them by one point during the Colts' hot streak. The Titans had Manning's number more than anybody.

You can say "Everybody has off games, Direckshun. I don't blame Rivers for having two (laugh) bad games long as he connected on the other fourteen -- that's far more than LJ can say."

You'll continue to say "And you no doubt have endless respect for Peyton Manning, everybody's favorite QB, despite the fact that your team was giving him fits in the playoff game until the defense wore out. He got shook up, too, yet he wouldn't bottom out your list of AFC West QBs, would he?"

You can then capitalize your argument by actually making a case for Rivers. Something you guys don't do.

Try saying something like "Our QB led us on two stellar comebacks on back-to-back weeks. Rivers didn't blink when the Bengals had us down 28-7 at halftime, and he led us to six drives that ended in touchdowns -- that is a level of efficiency that can't be had with just any QB. That's 42 points in the second half! And that's just one of the numerous fourth quarter comebacks that Rivers brought."

Then maybe throw in a higher-ground, holier-than-thou appraisal for my point of view while still insulting it. "You know, Direckshun, for a guy who seems to live on this goddamn board, you seem blind to the general ongoings of the league outside of your team. While Croyle may yet turn out to be a decent QB, that doesn't cancel out the fact that Rivers is a Pro Bowler who's got prime experience, talent, and team."

All of that too.

Manning did not struggle against the Titans however maybe you should double check your facts if you are going to write essays on your superior football knowledge.

XXXshogunXXX
05-11-2007, 02:04 AM
On what planet?

Rivers gets rattled, he's done for the game. It turns into the Chargers vs. their QB.

Rivers gets on a roll, he's good for the game. It's the Charger's to lose.

Rivers on, Rivers off. It's two personalities and either one could show up at any given game.


what games were you watching. How can a chief fan give that kind of evaluation...when you hear nothing like this from chargers fans...how many games have you watched from Rivers?
Example... We were down 21-0 in the first quarter against the bengals...Rivers and co comes back 49-41 to win....

another ex.... At mile high, Rivers throws an INT for a TD, down 21-7. He leads them right back for 2 straight TD possessions, to a win.

the seattle game..he was fckin up, but throws the winning TD for the last 23 seconds in the game.

Croyle and Russell havent even laid a foot on the field and youre ranking Rivers...a probowler, beneath them. Did he pee in your cheerios?

Every QB has a few bad games..Rivers cant be perfect. His team still went 14-2. This hot and cold shit youre talkin about...sounds more like Trent green. That guy was on and off every week, throwing for 400 yards 1 week, then throwing 4 INt the next. He had a good supporting cast too.

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 02:06 AM
what games were you watching. How can a chief fan give that kind of evaluation...when you hear nothing like this from chargers fans...how many games have you watched from Rivers?
Example... We were down 21-0 in the first quarter against the bengals...Rivers and co comes back 49-41 to win....

another ex.... At mile high, Rivers throws an INT for a TD, down 21-7. He leads them right back for 2 straight TD possessions, to a win.

the seattle game..he was fckin up, but throws the winning TD for the last 23 seconds in the game.

Croyle and Russell havent even laid a foot on the field and youre ranking Rivers...a probowler, beneath them. Did he pee in your cheerios?

Every QB has a few bad games..Rivers cant be perfect. His team still went 14-2. This hot and cold shit youre talkin about...sounds more like Trent green. That guy was on and off every week, throwing for 400 yards 1 week, then throwing 4 INt the next. He had a good supporting cast too.
Already made that argument for you, if you look up.

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 02:07 AM
All of that too.
It's like I'm boxing with balloons, people. Boxing with balloons.

LTforMVP
05-11-2007, 02:11 AM
It's like I'm boxing with balloons, people. Boxing with balloons.

You are not boxing anyone if you are just punching yourself in the face.

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 02:12 AM
You are not boxing anyone if you are just punching yourself in the face.
Well, yeah, I'd be boxing myself.

XXXshogunXXX
05-11-2007, 02:14 AM
no, thats punching yourself in the face

LTforMVP
05-11-2007, 02:15 AM
Well, yeah, I'd be boxing myself.

Good job at making a convincing argument that your first post in this thread was moronic. You are the man!

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 02:20 AM
no, thats punching yourself in the face
You say potato.

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 02:20 AM
You are the man!
Are you, by any chance, a very old person.

XXXshogunXXX
05-11-2007, 02:26 AM
You say potato.

nah, i never say pota*o

let us know if you need help with those punches

Direckshun
05-11-2007, 02:31 AM
let us know if you need help punching yourself.
Well as long as you're armed with knifing comebacks like "I never say potato," I'd rather be spared.

luv
05-11-2007, 03:04 AM
Well as long as you're armed with knifing comebacks like "I never say potato," I'd rather be spared.
I wouldn't. C'mon. This was entertaining!

blueballs
05-11-2007, 04:53 AM
Autumn Wind spread some seed in San Diego

htismaqe
05-11-2007, 06:01 AM
Huard could always get hurt.

How's Huard gonna get hurt sitting on the bench?

Chief Nute
05-11-2007, 06:31 AM
Man......we are screwed.

I get the vibe from a lot of guys around here that we are just going to "hand" Croyle the job.

I really hope if that is true that he takes the job and soars......

But answer this (to all of you Croyle supporters who seem to think that Croyle is the next coming of Len Dawson with barely watching him play an NFL down) How many NFL QB's in the league today that were not Round 1 or extremely early Round 2 picks were just "handed" a job because it was "their time"??

Most guys that were not super high prospects (like Brodie) that ended up succeeding in the league were thrust into duty due to injury to another starting QB. There are exceptions.......I believe Matt Hasselbeck is an example, but he was thrust into a much better situation than we would be throwing Brodie into. Brady, Bulger, etc were thrust into pretty good situations and both due to injury. I cant think of any others off the top of my head.....

So we are going to throw Brodie (a late 3rd round prospect) into a situation with a makeshift offensive line with a rookie WR and other marginally talented WR's and expect him to run this offense???

I sure hope he can do it, but it would almost be unprecedented if he were to take the job and run with it.

vailpass
05-11-2007, 07:56 AM
Seeing it in just about every scouting report leading up to the draft isn't "wishful thinking".

Show me. It shouldn't be hard if every scouting report said Cutler didn't have the head to lead a team. I looked at Rival's report:


http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=8450&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scoutingScouting Report
Pros: Stands tall in the pocket and releases the ball overhand, and at 6-feet-3 he has few deflections at the line. Makes sound decisions and has the ability to deliver the ball with excellent velocity and timing. His powerful arm allows him to make the most difficult throws. He displays the poise, instincts, and leadership to direct an offense successfully with the patience in the pocket to allow plays to develop.
Cons: He has also developed some bad habits such as sloppy footwork when planting to throw. That can be attributed to his looking to run too often when under pressure. As he settles into an offense that can give him time in the pocket and he learns to use critically important passing techniques, his accuracy should improve to even better than the 60 percent completion percentage he has attained over his last three seasons.
Numbers: As a senior, he threw for 21 TDs and just nine picks with a 59.1 percent completion rate. For his career, he set school records of 9953 yards total offense -- 8697 yards passing and 710 completions -- despite directing an offense with only marginal talent. At the Combine, he ran a 4.79, had quick agility drills and did 23 reps in the lifting.


So let's see all of those negative scouting reports (anything authored by the Planet's resident homeless hack GoatCheese is not admissible).

Buck
05-12-2007, 01:11 PM
Man, Rivers #4? Thats weaksauce.

Rivers actually had a great playoff game, just the receivers dropped everything.

He is going to be a pro bowler for many seasons to come and he should win at least one super bowl...more than you can honestly say about any of the other QBs, maybe Cutler.

Count Zarth
05-12-2007, 01:18 PM
he should win at least one super bowl...

Under what future head coach?

shrek6849
05-12-2007, 01:50 PM
Show me. It shouldn't be hard if every scouting report said Cutler didn't have the head to lead a team. I looked at Rival's report:


http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=8450&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scoutingScouting Report
Pros: Stands tall in the pocket and releases the ball overhand, and at 6-feet-3 he has few deflections at the line. Makes sound decisions and has the ability to deliver the ball with excellent velocity and timing. His powerful arm allows him to make the most difficult throws. He displays the poise, instincts, and leadership to direct an offense successfully with the patience in the pocket to allow plays to develop.
Cons: He has also developed some bad habits such as sloppy footwork when planting to throw. That can be attributed to his looking to run too often when under pressure. As he settles into an offense that can give him time in the pocket and he learns to use critically important passing techniques, his accuracy should improve to even better than the 60 percent completion percentage he has attained over his last three seasons.
Numbers: As a senior, he threw for 21 TDs and just nine picks with a 59.1 percent completion rate. For his career, he set school records of 9953 yards total offense -- 8697 yards passing and 710 completions -- despite directing an offense with only marginal talent. At the Combine, he ran a 4.79, had quick agility drills and did 23 reps in the lifting.


So let's see all of those negative scouting reports (anything authored by the Planet's resident homeless hack GoatCheese is not admissible).

Interesting. Is it just that "moxie" that Cutler lacks is what makes him less of a QB than Croyle (right now) according to htmisquiajeljak?

If we are judging them now, based only on these scouting reports, I wonder who the majority of them would take given the chance?

Mile High Mania
05-12-2007, 01:56 PM
There's only 2 QBs with something to rate at this level right now... Rivers and Cutler, in that order. Croyle has done nothing... Russell has done nothing.

shrek6849
05-12-2007, 01:59 PM
There's only 2 QBs with something to rate at this level right now... Rivers and Cutler, in that order. Croyle has done nothing... Russell has done nothing.

Actually Croyle did throw a TD last year....for Pittsburgh.

Mile High Mania
05-12-2007, 02:01 PM
Actually Croyle did throw a TD last year....for Pittsburgh.

Call Canton...

Direckshun
05-12-2007, 02:01 PM
If we are judging them now, based only on these scouting reports, I wonder who the majority of them would take given the chance?
****ing Russell, in a heartbeat.

Direckshun
05-12-2007, 02:03 PM
Man, Rivers #4? Thats weaksauce.

Rivers actually had a great playoff game, just the receivers dropped everything.

He is going to be a pro bowler for many seasons to come and he should win at least one super bowl.
You're glorifying the kid too much.

Rivers is a good QB, but let's face facts: he's the weakest link in that incredible San Diego offense.

Mile High Mania
05-12-2007, 02:11 PM
You're glorifying the kid too much.

Rivers is a good QB, but let's face facts: he's the weakest link in that incredible San Diego offense.

I don't see how that's possible... Rivers has been good and should get better. Weakest link? Weird.

Ugly Duck
05-12-2007, 04:48 PM
Cutler Report

Pros: Stands tall in the pocket and releases the ball overhand, and at 6-feet-3 he has few deflections at the line. Makes sound decisions and has the ability to deliver the ball with excellent velocity and timing. His powerful arm allows him to make the most difficult throws. He displays the poise, instincts, and leadership to direct an offense successfully with the patience in the pocket to allow plays to develop.
Cons: He has also developed some bad habits such as sloppy footwork when planting to throw. That can be attributed to his looking to run too often when under pressure. As he settles into an offense that can give him time in the pocket and he learns to use critically important passing techniques, his accuracy should improve to even better than the 60 percent completion percentage he has attained over his last three seasons.


I gotta mark Russell last in this poll.... cuz he might not even play this season. That would make him 0 completions in 0 attempts for 0 yards. Even Croyle has a chance of beating that. At least Russell's scouting report compares favorably with Cutler's:

Jamarcus Russell Report

Analysis: A physical presence behind center, Russell possesses all the skills to lead a franchise at the next level. Showed consistent improvement over the past two seasons and offers a tremendous amount of upside. An early draft selection who favorably compares to former All-Pro Daunte Culpepper.

Pos: Big, powerful pocket passer with tremendous arm strength. Patient, buys time for receivers and does an outstanding job directing the offense. Stands strong in the pocket, taking a big hit or getting the throw off with defenders draped on him. Zips the outs with a flick of the wrist, easily drives the deep throw and loses nothing passing on the move. Senses pressure, makes good decisions under the rush and runs with the ball as a last resort. Identifies the open wide out on the field, leads receivers over the middle and powers the ball through the tight spots. Looks off the safety, goes through receiver progressions and takes the underneath outlet if nothing else is available.

Neg: Must improve his throwing fundamentals and pass placement, as targets are constantly adjusting to make the reception. More often than not he is high of the mark.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=8&c=1&nid=2611351

Buck
05-12-2007, 04:48 PM
You're glorifying the kid too much.

Rivers is a good QB, but let's face facts: he's the weakest link in that incredible San Diego offense.

Yeah, and hes only going to get better. Plus when comparing him to the other qbs, he looks the best by far.

Brock
05-12-2007, 04:51 PM
He may someday be as good as Drew Brees.

convict1983
05-12-2007, 04:59 PM
I hate to say it but Croyle isnt even in the same cateogory as those guys. He is way out of his league.

Count Zarth
05-12-2007, 05:04 PM
I hate to say it but Croyle isnt even in the same cateogory as those guys. He is way out of his league.

Croyle's arm is much stronger than Rivers.'

HerculesRockefell
05-12-2007, 05:09 PM
For what it's worth Croyle and Cutler BOTH had horrible offensive lines in college. Only one of them went to a Bowl game...I'll let you guys fill in the blank.

and only one was voted the Offensive MVP of the SEC even though he played on an offense that had 0 NFL prospects besides himself, I'll let you fill in the blank.

Even though arm strength is not the be all end all factor, I was thoroughly unimpressed with Rivers' arm strength when I watched him in warmups and during the game in Denver. If he ever gets in a situation where LT is hurt and he becomes the focus of the defense, that SD offense is going to look very pedestrian in a hurry.

Brock
05-12-2007, 05:09 PM
I hate to say it but Croyle isnt even in the same cateogory as those guys. He is way out of his league.

Based on what?

blueballs
05-12-2007, 06:08 PM
Chad Pennington was the #18 pick in the 2000 draft -played 1 game
Edwards was named HC in 2001 -Chad played in 2 games
2002 Pennington came in -in game 5 for Vinnie -started ever since -when healthy
don't see any strong way to compare it with Croyle -as far as Edwards in concerned

Count Zarth
05-12-2007, 06:13 PM
Even though arm strength is not the be all end all factor, I was thoroughly unimpressed with Rivers' arm strength when I watched him in warmups and during the game in Denver. If he ever gets in a situation where LT is hurt and he becomes the focus of the defense, that SD offense is going to look very pedestrian in a hurry.

Rivers arm is pretty weak. He's going to be a system QB his entire career.

XXXshogunXXX
05-12-2007, 07:43 PM
Rivers arm is pretty weak. He's going to be a system QB his entire career.

spoken from a true nfl scout... first time ive heard of this.

Count Zarth
05-12-2007, 07:45 PM
spoken from a true nfl scout... first time ive heard of this.

All you have to do is watch a game. His arm is in Chad Pennington's league.

XXXshogunXXX
05-12-2007, 08:01 PM
All you have to do is watch a game. His arm is in Chad Pennington's league.

watched 17 of them...stronger than brees', has more zip. Better deep ball. His arm strength isnt a problem.

Count Zarth
05-12-2007, 08:02 PM
watched 17 of them...stronger than brees', has more zip. Better deep ball. His arm strength isnt a problem.

Haha. OK.

keg in kc
05-12-2007, 08:06 PM
'Stronger than Brees' is sort of like saying 'smarter than Russell'. It's hard not to be.

Direckshun
05-12-2007, 11:28 PM
Plus when comparing him to the other qbs, he looks the best by far.
Brilliant argument.

****in' Charger fans.

Logical
05-12-2007, 11:49 PM
I am shocked to see the Planet being so realistic.I guess it switched to judgement based on the upcoming season instead of longer term view. Still I would place Croyle last even if you look at just the upcoming season.

suds79
05-12-2007, 11:53 PM
I've got

1 - Rivers - Experience
2 - Cutler
3 - Croyle - Based on the 1 year of experience and he's on a better team which will make him look better
4 - Russell - Incredible talent but they still can't pass protect and I'd say about 95% of all rookie QBs get lit up with the picks... Now the following year after that? We'll see.

Ugly Duck
05-13-2007, 12:13 AM
'Stronger than Brees' is sort of like saying 'smarter than Russell'. It's hard not to be.

Where do you get the knock on Russell's IQ? Scored the same on the Wonderlic as Brodie Croyle - just 2 points behind Cutler. Made the All-SEC Academic Honor Roll. Wut it is, man?

Wonderlic scores:

27 Rich Gannon
26 Jay Cutler
25 Peyton Manning
24 Jamarcus Russell
22 Brett Favre
21 Daunte Culpepper
20 Michael Vick
16 Donovan McNabb
16 Vince Young
16 Elvis Grbac
14 Dan Marino

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 03:35 AM
Where do you get the knock on Russell's IQ? Scored the same on the Wonderlic as Brodie Croyle - just 2 points behind Cutler. Made the All-SEC Academic Honor Roll. Wut it is, man?

Wonderlic scores:

27 Rich Gannon
26 Jay Cutler
25 Peyton Manning
24 Jamarcus Russell
22 Brett Favre
21 Daunte Culpepper
20 Michael Vick
16 Donovan McNabb
16 Vince Young
16 Elvis Grbac
14 Dan Marino
ITs called someone not knowing wtf he is talking about. Happens all the time.

blueballs
05-13-2007, 07:44 AM
20 percent of the voters are retarded or assholes
nice to see so many take this poll seriously

Ugly Duck
05-13-2007, 08:41 AM
ITs called someone not knowing wtf he is talking about. Happens all the time.

Ohhh, that....

htismaqe
05-13-2007, 11:37 AM
Show me. It shouldn't be hard if every scouting report said Cutler didn't have the head to lead a team. I looked at Rival's report:


http://nfldraft.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=8450&PT=7&PR=2&type=scoutingreport#scoutingScouting Report
Pros: Stands tall in the pocket and releases the ball overhand, and at 6-feet-3 he has few deflections at the line. Makes sound decisions and has the ability to deliver the ball with excellent velocity and timing. His powerful arm allows him to make the most difficult throws. He displays the poise, instincts, and leadership to direct an offense successfully with the patience in the pocket to allow plays to develop.
Cons: He has also developed some bad habits such as sloppy footwork when planting to throw. That can be attributed to his looking to run too often when under pressure. As he settles into an offense that can give him time in the pocket and he learns to use critically important passing techniques, his accuracy should improve to even better than the 60 percent completion percentage he has attained over his last three seasons.
Numbers: As a senior, he threw for 21 TDs and just nine picks with a 59.1 percent completion rate. For his career, he set school records of 9953 yards total offense -- 8697 yards passing and 710 completions -- despite directing an offense with only marginal talent. At the Combine, he ran a 4.79, had quick agility drills and did 23 reps in the lifting.


So let's see all of those negative scouting reports (anything authored by the Planet's resident homeless hack GoatCheese is not admissible).

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/cutler_jay

Cutler is a player who has made a meteoric rise since the postseason began. After the 2005 season ended, Cutler was generally regarded as a second- or third-round pick based on his on-field performance. But then during the Senior Bowl practices, he really lit it up, and then went to the Combine and really helped himself by being willing to workout in front of all the NFL teams. He is definitely physically talented enough to become a good starting quarterback in the NFL, but in order to become the player he is capable of, Cutler is going to need to become much more consistent in his throwing technique and decision-making.

Because Vanderbilt was almost always the worse team, Cutler developed some bad habits of trying to force some passes into tight coverage, leading to interceptions. Due to the reasons listed above, Cutler has struggled to consistently convert key/important downs into first downs.

Scott Wright doesn't keep an archive of his previous season's Scouting Reports, but here's his overrated/underrated list from last season:

OVERRATED / UNDERRATED

QB Jay Cutler / QB Justin Holland
RB Jerome Harrison / RB Taurean Henderson
WR Brandon Williams / WR Martin Nance
TE David Thomas / TE T.J. Williams
OT Troy Reddick / OT Jonathan Scott
OG Taitusi Lutui / OG Aldo De La Garza
C Chris Chester / C Greg Eslinger
DE Parys Haralson / DE Manny Lawson
DT Orien Harris DT / Jonathan Lewis
OLB A.J. Nicholson / OLB Spencer Havner
ILB Freddy Keiaho / ILB Leon Williams
CB Devin Hester / CB Will Blackmon
S Dwayne Slay / S Jason Allen

htismaqe
05-13-2007, 11:39 AM
Interesting. Is it just that "moxie" that Cutler lacks is what makes him less of a QB than Croyle (right now) according to htmisquiajeljak?

If we are judging them now, based only on these scouting reports, I wonder who the majority of them would take given the chance?

You don't have any clue what you're talking about.

I'd suggest you stay out of this, unless you enjoy getting embarrassed.

convict1983
05-13-2007, 11:44 AM
I've got

1 - Rivers - Experience
2 - Cutler
3 - Croyle - Based on the 1 year of experience and he's on a better team which will make him look better
4 - Russell - Incredible talent but they still can't pass protect and I'd say about 95% of all rookie QBs get lit up with the picks... Now the following year after that? We'll see.

Dude, I love the Chiefs, but take off your homer glasses. Croyle isnt even in the same category as those guys.

Can Croyle throw the ball 65 yards on his knees??? Didnt think so. Russell can though.

blueballs
05-13-2007, 11:49 AM
Vick can throw a bomb too

htismaqe
05-13-2007, 11:51 AM
DudeCan Croyle throw the ball 65 yards on his knees??? Didnt think so. Russell can though.

Can Rivers?

How about Cutler?

Brock
05-13-2007, 12:09 PM
Dude, I love the Chiefs, but take off your homer glasses. Croyle isnt even in the same category as those guys.

Can Croyle throw the ball 65 yards on his knees??? Didnt think so. Russell can though.

How about Tom Brady? Can he throw the ball 65 yards on his knees? Or does he just distribute the ball accurately and on time...

convict1983
05-13-2007, 12:13 PM
How about Tom Brady? Can he throw the ball 65 yards on his knees? Or does he just distribute the ball accurately and on time...

:banghead: Wow, some of you are taking things too literally here.

What I am saying is that Russell is a freak of nature. The guy has great mechanics and can deliver the ball anywhere.

Croyle CANT F***ING do that. I will eat crow if Croyle turns into the next Brady but he will most likely be a nice back up QB...that is if he can stay healthy.

If some of you think Croyle is in the same talent level as Russel you are retarded.

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 12:14 PM
What i find funny is someone saying Cutler is over rated. Coming out of college everyone was sayign he was Underrated. lol. Funny how that works out when he's the QB of the most heated rival.

Count Zarth
05-13-2007, 12:15 PM
Croyle CANT F***ING do that.

Neither can most quarterbacks...

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 12:16 PM
You don't have any clue what you're talking about.

I'd suggest you stay out of this, unless you enjoy getting embarrassed.
HOW does he have no clue what he's talking about? I pretty much agree with what he says. Croyle is dead last in the division. He has to prove something. Russell does as well, but he was the number 1 over all draft pick, that gives him power alone then Croyle.

Easy 6
05-13-2007, 12:18 PM
Dude, I love the Chiefs, but take off your homer glasses. Croyle isnt even in the same category as those guys.

Can Croyle throw the ball 65 yards on his knees??? Didnt think so. Russell can though.

Croyle deserves his spot at #3.

So Russell has Col. Steve Austins right arm...so did Ryan Leaf & eleventy-billion other guys who washed out of the league.

The LSU team he played on was talent rich, the same can hardly be said for Croyles 'Bama teams yet he set numerous records.

Russell is gonna look like Kurt Russell out there for ATLEAST the 07 season.

shrek6849
05-13-2007, 12:20 PM
You don't have any clue what you're talking about.

I'd suggest you stay out of this, unless you enjoy getting embarrassed.

I figured you wouldn't be able to answer that one.

You have put Croyle #2 ahead of two guys. One of which was THE #1 overall pick in the NFL draft, who has just as many starts as Croyle, and who ALL scouts would take in a heartbeat over Croyle. The other of which was THE #11 overall pick, has 5 starts under his belt and put up an 89 QB Rating with a 9/5 TD/INT ratio. Not amazing numbers, but impressive for a rookie.

Either you are just a huge Croyle homer (my guess), or just don't know what you are talking about.

blueballs
05-13-2007, 12:20 PM
the question was
at the end of the '07 season

Brock
05-13-2007, 12:24 PM
You have to be pretty stupid to think that where a qb is drafted has any bearing at all on what their performance is going to be.

Easy 6
05-13-2007, 12:25 PM
the question was
at the end of the '07 season

Well in that case, its all up in the air...a million things could happen to change perceptions of every guy...except for Russell IMO, he's getting thrown out there as a rook with the worst O in the biz.

shrek6849
05-13-2007, 12:31 PM
You have to be pretty stupid to think that where a qb is drafted has any bearing at all on what their performance is going to be.

It has no bearing whatsoever?

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 12:39 PM
You have to be pretty stupid to think that where a qb is drafted has any bearing at all on what their performance is going to be.
It has alot more barring then thinking Croyle is better then Russell, When Croyle has been hurt his whole career, was a 3rd round project.

Easy 6
05-13-2007, 12:50 PM
It has alot more barring then thinking Croyle is better then Russell, When Croyle has been hurt his whole career, was a 3rd round project.

So every SURE-SHOT STUD QB coming out of college is gauranteed to translate that to the pro level???

If thats what your saying then history would like to have a word with you.

Croyle absolutely could end up being better than Russell, what round was Tom Brady taken in again???

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 12:52 PM
So every SURE-SHOT STUD QB coming out of college is gauranteed to translate that to the pro level???

If thats what your saying then history would like to have a word with you.

Croyle absolutely could end up being better than Russell, what round was Tom Brady taken in again???
Where in my post did i say that? I dont think i ever said, or implied that. I just said that it holds more then a 3rd round project. Hell, one thats gets hurt alot even.


Of course Croyle could be, but if you get 32 gm's/scouts/head coaches, and ask them, who do you wnat Russell or Croyle? What do you honestly think would happen? i will tell you right now what i think will happen 32 teams will pick Russell.

blueballs
05-13-2007, 12:59 PM
off the argument
Brady's lower price tag as a late rounder had to help the Pats to three Super Bowls
where Mannings' hurt the Colts

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 01:01 PM
Manning still got his. As long as i have been alive the Chiefs never even sniffed the SB.

blueballs
05-13-2007, 01:03 PM
Manning will finish his career as a Chief
to bad it will be Eli

Ugly Duck
05-13-2007, 01:24 PM
Croyle absolutely could end up being better than Russell

link?

I can't find a dang thing on that.... you'd think it would be all over the wire!

Ugly Duck
05-13-2007, 01:29 PM
Russell's getting thrown out there as a rook with the worst O in the biz.

No. Those are two assumptions that you wouldn't wanna bet on. Russell's not getting thrown anywhere - he's gotta learn the ropes first & Kiffin wants to see how the revamped O-line plays before he starts the future franchise QB.

Easy 6
05-13-2007, 01:37 PM
link?

I can't find a dang thing on that.... you'd think it would be all over the wire!

I stand behind what i said 100%.

As if a huge arm & lots of praise in the draft is a gaurantee of future success.

At this point i rank Croyle #3 based on the fact that he's been in the league a year & made plenty of chicken salad from chickenshit down at 'Bama. He also didnt have the benefit of having 2 of the top rated WR's on his teams down there.

Croyle COULD be better than Russell.

Buck
05-13-2007, 01:38 PM
Brilliant argument.

****in' Charger fans.


Whatever, you can call me a stupid ****ing Chargers fan, but you know there is no way in hell that Rivers is #4 on that list.

Ugly Duck
05-13-2007, 01:46 PM
Croyle COULD be better than Russell.

Heck, Croyle COULD be better than Peyton Manning if terrorists superglue Peyton's nostrils shut and shove a frozen cauliflower up his butt. It COULD happen - nobody could deny that.

I'm with you - Croyle at #3.... cuz Russell might not even play this season - too much to learn.

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 01:51 PM
There is no way Russell doesnt play this season. When was the last time the first overall draft pick didnt start?

Easy 6
05-13-2007, 01:54 PM
There is no way Russell doesnt play this season. When was the last time the first overall draft pick didnt start?


I hope he does start this year, so he can crumble like Rick Mirer, Akilli Smith...so on & so forth, beneath the weight of a terrible team.

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Again, has there ever been a number 1 over all that didnt start from the get go? I really dont know if there has been one in the modern era.

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 01:57 PM
Actually there has, Eli and Carson.

Brock
05-13-2007, 02:05 PM
It has no bearing whatsoever?

Why would it? Matt Hasselbeck, Bret Favre, Tom Brady, Trent Green, etc., are all better QBs than Tim Couch, Michael Vick, David Carr, etc. And they didn't cost a number one overall pick or even a first day pick.

Ugly Duck
05-13-2007, 02:15 PM
Actually there has, Eli and Carson. The 9ers also intended to sit Alex Smith for his rookie year... but I think they ended up letting him play a couple of games.

shrek6849
05-13-2007, 02:20 PM
Why would it? Matt Hasselbeck, Bret Favre, Tom Brady, Trent Green, etc., are all better QBs than Tim Couch, Michael Vick, David Carr, etc. And they didn't cost a number one overall pick or even a first day pick.

You're just not following very well. No one is saying drafting a QB in the first round means he will be a definite success. The higher you draft though, the better your chances are at getting a great QB.

Wow, a handful of examples. I'll give you Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, John Elway, Dan Marino, Jim Kelley, Drew Brees, McNabb, Bradshaw, Simms....and that's just how the top of my head.

There is a reason 32 teams passed on Croyle twice.

Skip Towne
05-13-2007, 02:38 PM
You're just not following very well. No one is saying drafting a QB in the first round means he will be a definite success. The higher you draft though, the better your chances are at getting a great QB.

Wow, a handful of examples. I'll give you Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, John Elway, Dan Marino, Jim Kelley, Drew Brees, McNabb, Bradshaw, Simms....and that's just how the top of my head.

There is a reason 32 teams passed on Croyle twice.
Why did every team pass on Joe Montana...twice?

shrek6849
05-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Why did every team pass on Joe Montana...twice?

For every Joe Montana I could give you about 250 Joe Nobody's who were passed on multiple times who did exactly shit.

Mile High Mania
05-13-2007, 02:50 PM
Croyle could be Todd Blackledge if he tries really hard.

keg in kc
05-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Croyle could be Todd Blackledge if he tries really hard.[random Jake Plummer comment]

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 02:56 PM
Why did every team pass on Joe Montana...twice?
croyle is Montana?

Brock
05-13-2007, 02:57 PM
croyle is Montana?

He isn't?

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 02:59 PM
i bet other fans from other tams are laughing their ass off on some of the homerism going on in this thread.

Skip Towne
05-13-2007, 03:00 PM
croyle is Montana?
We don't know yet and neither do you.

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 03:03 PM
We don't know yet and neither do you.
To even compare them 2 is just stupid. I would take a bet saying he isnt over he is though.

Skip Towne
05-13-2007, 03:06 PM
To even compare them 2 is just stupid. I would take a bet saying he isnt over he is though.
Those 2

htismaqe
05-13-2007, 04:37 PM
I figured you wouldn't be able to answer that one.

You have put Croyle #2 ahead of two guys. One of which was THE #1 overall pick in the NFL draft, who has just as many starts as Croyle, and who ALL scouts would take in a heartbeat over Croyle. The other of which was THE #11 overall pick, has 5 starts under his belt and put up an 89 QB Rating with a 9/5 TD/INT ratio. Not amazing numbers, but impressive for a rookie.

Either you are just a huge Croyle homer (my guess), or just don't know what you are talking about.

ROFL

I actually DID answer it. TWO DAYS AGO.

Reading is fundamental.

htismaqe
05-13-2007, 04:38 PM
What i find funny is someone saying Cutler is over rated. Coming out of college everyone was sayign he was Underrated. lol. Funny how that works out when he's the QB of the most heated rival.

I already posted a list from Scott Wright, who had Cutler as his #1 most overrated player in last year's draft.

Fruit Ninja
05-13-2007, 04:48 PM
I already posted a list from Scott Wright, who had Cutler as his #1 most overrated player in last year's draft.
Yes, i read about Mike Mayok saying he was serverely under rated and he had him as the number 1 quarter back. Works both ways. I am not trying to dig through the whole thread to look back at everything though.

I really do hope he is overrated, but its to early to tell.

BigRock
05-13-2007, 04:52 PM
I already posted a list from Scott Wright, who had Cutler as his #1 most overrated player in last year's draft.
SI's Stu Mandel said the same thing. Coincidentally, his underrated pick for QB was Brodie Croyle.

Logical
05-13-2007, 05:01 PM
Croyle could be Todd Blackledge if he tries really hard.No because we did not waste a first on him.

Direckshun
05-13-2007, 05:51 PM
Whatever, you can call me a stupid ****ing Chargers fan, but you know there is no way in hell that Rivers is #4 on that list.
An argument is when you propose a series of factual propositions and then infer a conclusion from them. This is intended to incite a pattern of logic that will ideally get a third party to adopt your point of view.

This is considered a popular tactic of persuasion, and is considered far more useful in conversation than simply saying your conclusion over and over again and expecting others to eventually agree.

Except for, perhaps, ****ing Chargers fans.

LTforMVP
05-13-2007, 06:32 PM
An argument is when you propose a series of factual propositions and then infer a conclusion from them. This is intended to incite a pattern of logic that will ideally get a third party to adopt your point of view.

This is considered a popular tactic of persuasion, and is considered far more useful in conversation than simply saying your conclusion over and over again and expecting others to eventually agree.

Except for, perhaps, ****ing Chargers fans.

You already know the facts. No amount of retelling them is going to make you anything other than a moronic homer.

blueballs
05-13-2007, 06:40 PM
a more iconic homer
wow

Direckshun
05-14-2007, 12:51 AM
You already know the facts. No amount of retelling them is going to make you anything other than a moronic homer.
I would like it if you put "You are the man!" in your signature.

Would make your posts cute.

Fruit Ninja
05-14-2007, 01:17 AM
a more iconic homer
wow
Yep, i see alot of them on this board. I didnt think there was that many. lol