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petegz28
05-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Ok I defended Bell when a lot blasted him for how he acted during his press conference when we signed him. I defended him the rest of that year. I defended him lat year once he figured out what a SAC Bunt was. I bought season tickets for this year when we signed Moore thinking the Glass family was ready to make a real change. I defended Moore when he said Bell "will be around as long as he likes". I even defended Bell at the start of the season.

After our 1-0 loss to the Twins when they walked 10 of our guys I started to call for the hitting coach to be fired and was starting to slam Bell.

After today I cannot say this guy knows WTF he is doing. We still can't bunt. He placed Gordon at 1st base last night in the 9th inning of a 1 run game for "defensive reasons". He brought in Peralta today, one of our few decent relievers, when we were down 10-0.

And after a 17-3 ass kicking all he can say is "we just need to forget about it". Well Bell that is BS. You DON'T forget about this ass whipping. You use it to motivate and learn. You use it like any other winning team would.

Our team strikes out left and right. We can't move runners. We can't lay down bunts. We can't hold leads with our pen. We can't run the bases properly. And we look like we just flat out don't give a shit with the exception of a few players.

That is coaching. That is bad coaching. That is terrible coaching. This team is never ready to play. This team has no passion at all. This team has no Captain.

Hire Frank White and get someone who knows how to win, how to coach and won't take this shit with players going through the motions for a paycheck.

Slick32
05-10-2007, 06:55 PM
Shouldn't we have a baseball forum to put this in?

kstater
05-10-2007, 07:00 PM
The name should be longer.

How about:

www.firebuddybelltodayfornotwinning.com

Dave Lane
05-10-2007, 07:05 PM
This is retarded. Joe Torre would have the same record with this players. You are kidding yourself. This team is BAD. There are bad players mixed in with kids with some promise. This is not going to get turned around this year period. Maybe 2008 will be improving,
even maybe with luck by the end of the year.

Save your griping for something worthwhile.

Dave

KCinNY
05-10-2007, 07:14 PM
This is retarded. Joe Torre would have the same record with this players. You are kidding yourself. This team is BAD. There are bad players mixed in with kids with some promise. This is not going to get turned around this year period. Maybe 2008 will be improving,
even maybe with luck by the end of the year.

Save your griping for something worthwhile.

Dave

Well, Joe Torre never won $hit without the big Yankee payroll, but I agree with your point. A great manager couldn't do much with this team.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 07:16 PM
This is retarded. Joe Torre would have the same record with this players. You are kidding yourself. This team is BAD. There are bad players mixed in with kids with some promise. This is not going to get turned around this year period. Maybe 2008 will be improving,
even maybe with luck by the end of the year.

Save your griping for something worthwhile.

Dave


Then I would have to say you don't know much about baseball. The fact you even bring up Torre shows that.

You look at what the coach of the Tigers did last year when they got off to a poor start.

Bell excuses and tolerates poor play. I don't expect this team to win the series. I do expect us to be able to bunt and not strike out on average og 8-9 times a game.

I do expect our players to go out and not committ errors every game.

And I do expect them to play like they want to win.

Bell is not the guy I thought he would be that is for sure.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 07:19 PM
Well, Joe Torre never won $hit without the big Yankee payroll, but I agree with your point. A great manager couldn't do much with this team.


I don't want a great manager I want a good coach. If you are going to have a team with younger players you have to have a good coach not just someone to put a lineup together every night.

Dave Lane
05-10-2007, 07:21 PM
Well I for one never wanted Bell. I agree there are better guys and I'm certain you will get your wish with Bell by this time next year. I'd say anytime after the all star break the odds, if this level or play continues, is that he's gone. But don't get worked up by it. It will come incrementally.

Dave

banyon
05-10-2007, 07:23 PM
Best quote I heard about Buddy Bell was from Petro after some fan was berating him.

"Buddy Bell is like a gunfighter who keeps going out to duel with a couple of guns with no bullets and keeps getting shot in the face."

petegz28
05-10-2007, 07:27 PM
Well I for one never wanted Bell. I agree there are better guys and I'm certain you will get your wish with Bell by this time next year. I'd say anytime after the all star break the odds, if this level or play continues, is that he's gone. But don't get worked up by it. It will come incrementally.

Dave


Well I think that is just it. I know this team can and has played better. I know we have some good talent on this team and can win 80 games easy. But you have to have that attitude and we don't. The team will refelct the attitude of the head coach.

We look and play like it is ok to lose. If you lose fine if you are out there smacking the crap out of the ball but hitting right at someone and making the other team make plays.

But when you lost cause you K 1-2 times an inning, get caught on the basepaths or can't lay down a bunt or can't go 1 game without an error that is jsut plain bad coaching period. Those games should happen as the minority. We are usually good for 8 ks and 1-2 errors a night.

We walked 19+ people in this series alone and gave up 32 runs.

By the same token we got walked 10 times in 1 game and couldn't score 1 run in 11 innings because we K'd 13 times.

We have some all-star talent all over the place..

DeJesus, Grudz, Teahen, Meche and Soria all could easily make the All-Stars right now.

But when your coach can only say "we just have a bunch of guys strugglign right now" or "you just have to forget about this game" I call BS.

Those are things you say here and there not after EVERY game just about. We are 15 games down already and it isn't even the end of May.

CoMoChief
05-10-2007, 07:31 PM
There's a reason why this coach had the worst winning% among active coaches when we hired him.

Bell does some pretty ****ing stupid coaching many times throughout the season. He needs to be gone. He acts like "Hey we lost, who cares, it happens this is a young team, they'll eventually get it right someday." **** THAT as a manager of a Mjaor League club you can NOT have that attitude. He needs to go.

Slick32
05-10-2007, 07:38 PM
Off season football sucks, but it's better than including baseball, the most boring sport in the world since lawn darts.

I predict the Royals will win another World Series before 2050, maybe.

ChiefsCountry
05-10-2007, 07:45 PM
Poor coaching + poor bullpen = why the Royals suck.

Our offense and starting pitching for the most part is good enough to win a few ballgames.

I agree get Bell out of there. I dont know who to get right now, but gosh it cant be that hard to replace him.

Slick32
05-10-2007, 07:49 PM
Poor coaching + poor bullpen = why the Royals suck.

Our offense and starting pitching for the most part is good enough to win a few ballgames.

I agree get Bell out of there. I dont know who to get right now, but gosh it cant be that hard to replace him.

I bet there are some little league or American Legion coaches that might be willing to take a step down to coach the royals.

PinkFloyd
05-10-2007, 07:56 PM
Ok I defended Bell when a lot blasted him for how he acted during his press conference when we signed him. I defended him the rest of that year. I defended him lat year once he figured out what a SAC Bunt was. I bought season tickets for this year when we signed Moore thinking the Glass family was ready to make a real change. I defended Moore when he said Bell "will be around as long as he likes". I even defended Bell at the start of the season.

After our 1-0 loss to the Twins when they walked 10 of our guys I started to call for the hitting coach to be fired and was starting to slam Bell.

After today I cannot say this guy knows WTF he is doing. We still can't bunt. He placed Gordon at 1st base last night in the 9th inning of a 1 run game for "defensive reasons". He brought in Peralta today, one of our few decent relievers, when we were down 10-0.

And after a 17-3 ass kicking all he can say is "we just need to forget about it". Well Bell that is BS. You DON'T forget about this ass whipping. You use it to motivate and learn. You use it like any other winning team would.

Our team strikes out left and right. We can't move runners. We can't lay down bunts. We can't hold leads with our pen. We can't run the bases properly. And we look like we just flat out don't give a shit with the exception of a few players.

That is coaching. That is bad coaching. That is terrible coaching. This team is never ready to play. This team has no passion at all. This team has no Captain.

Hire Frank White and get someone who knows how to win, how to coach and won't take this shit with players going through the motions for a paycheck.


I heard that Carl told Mr. Glass to STFU and STFD !!!! Carl was going to take over as the main man !!!

Spott
05-10-2007, 08:02 PM
Damn, I didn't know that you could even buy season tickets for baseball. Who would want to go to 81 home games?

petegz28
05-10-2007, 08:13 PM
Damn, I didn't know that you could even buy season tickets for baseball. Who would want to go to 81 home games?


I bought a partial package but I love baseball and I love the Royals. I Watch or listen to just about every play of every game. I grew up watching people like Frank White, Amos Otis, George Brett, Willie Wilson. Guys that played hungry and wanted to win. And Whitey Herzog is arguably one of the best coaches to ever coach the game of baseball.

I want that attitude back. I think we have similar talent especially if we can get Gathright into the Majors cause his speed is awesome. We just need a coach that expects us to perform and not make excuses for why we don't.

Dave Lane
05-10-2007, 08:15 PM
Off season football sucks, but it's better than including baseball, the most boring sport in the world since lawn darts.

I predict the Royals will win another World Series before 2050, maybe.


No that would be soccer.

Dave

KCinNY
05-10-2007, 08:17 PM
And Whitey Herzong is arguably one of the best coaches to ever coach the game of baseball.

Agree 100%.

Herzog did more with less than any manager that comes to mind. Built the Royals to a perennial contender and then went across the state and did the same thing with the Cards.

Silock
05-10-2007, 08:17 PM
No that would be soccer.

Dave


Lies.

Slick32
05-10-2007, 08:22 PM
No that would be soccer.

Dave

Can't disagree with that one. I've never tried to understand the game. Probably never will.

Cochise
05-10-2007, 08:27 PM
Well, the guy can't build a doghouse without any nails.

Dr. Facebook Fever
05-10-2007, 08:29 PM
Damn, I didn't know that you could even buy season tickets for baseball. Who would want to go to 81 home games?
Me... if the product were a little more worthy. I go to games when I can even though it's not.

I'm with you 100% pete.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 08:29 PM
Well, the guy can't build a doghouse without any nails.


sorry I don't buy it anymore. I understand our pen is weak other than that these guys just are apathetic. When no one can lay down a bunt and everyone strikes out I say "who the hell is coaching these people?"

Slick32
05-10-2007, 08:37 PM
I can fix the Royals problems.

Give me $200,000,000 a year and I'll build a team that can win the World Series.
New York Yankees - 2000-2007
Year ----Median --------- Team
2007 $ 1,500,000 $ 189,639,045
2006 $ 2,925,000 $ 194,663,079
2005 $ 5,833,334 $ 208,306,817
2004 $ 3,100,000 $ 184,193,950
2003 $ 4,575,000 $ 152,749,814
2002 $ 2,500,000 $ 125,928,583
2001 $ 1,600,000 $ 112,287,143
2000 $ 1,350,000 $ 92,938,260

KC Royals - 2000-2007

2007 $ 550,000 $ 67,116,500
2006 $ 500,000 $ 47,294,000
2005 $ 352,000 $ 36,881,000
2004 $ 436,250 $ 47,609,000
2003 $ 313,500 $ 40,518,000
2002 $ 800,000 $ 47,257,000
2001 $ 372,500 $ 35,422,500
2000 $ 400,000 $ 23,132,500

Any Questions?

ChiefsCountry
05-10-2007, 08:38 PM
Baseball season tickets would be a great investment if you had a business to write them off.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 08:40 PM
Seruisly if you think about it we have a legitimate team or can have one...

DeJesus...All-Star
Grudz..All-Star
Pena Jr....great defens cut down the errors
Teahen...All Star
Buck....getting better and can be servicable
Gordon..not ready for the majors but will be
Butler..looks fine at the plate to me for a rookie

get Gathwright's stick up to .250 -.275 and we can field a decent team

ChiefsCountry
05-10-2007, 08:41 PM
I can fix the Royals problems.

Give me $200,000,000 a year and I'll build a team that can win the World Series.
New York Yankees - 2000-2007
Year Median Team
2007 $ 1,500,000 $ 189,639,045
2006 $ 2,925,000 $ 194,663,079
2005 $ 5,833,334 $ 208,306,817
2004 $ 3,100,000 $ 184,193,950
2003 $ 4,575,000 $ 152,749,814
2002 $ 2,500,000 $ 125,928,583
2001 $ 1,600,000 $ 112,287,143
2000 $ 1,350,000 $ 92,938,260

KC Royals - 2000-2007

2007 $ 550,000 $ 67,116,500
2006 $ 500,000 $ 47,294,000
2005 $ 352,000 $ 36,881,000
2004 $ 436,250 $ 47,609,000
2003 $ 313,500 $ 40,518,000
2002 $ 800,000 $ 47,257,000
2001 $ 372,500 $ 35,422,500
2000 $ 400,000 $ 23,132,500

Any Questions?

And the mighty Yankess only one it once during that time.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 08:42 PM
I can fix the Royals problems.

Give me $200,000,000 a year and I'll build a team that can win the World Series.
New York Yankees - 2000-2007
Year ----Median --------- Team
2007 $ 1,500,000 $ 189,639,045
2006 $ 2,925,000 $ 194,663,079
2005 $ 5,833,334 $ 208,306,817
2004 $ 3,100,000 $ 184,193,950
2003 $ 4,575,000 $ 152,749,814
2002 $ 2,500,000 $ 125,928,583
2001 $ 1,600,000 $ 112,287,143
2000 $ 1,350,000 $ 92,938,260

KC Royals - 2000-2007

2007 $ 550,000 $ 67,116,500
2006 $ 500,000 $ 47,294,000
2005 $ 352,000 $ 36,881,000
2004 $ 436,250 $ 47,609,000
2003 $ 313,500 $ 40,518,000
2002 $ 800,000 $ 47,257,000
2001 $ 372,500 $ 35,422,500
2000 $ 400,000 $ 23,132,500

Any Questions?


people keep pointing to the Yanks...why? When did they win a series last? How are the Twins and Oakland in the run for everything year in and out? How did the Tigers turn it around so fast?

I agree we need to spend some more but not break the bank.

ChiefsCountry
05-10-2007, 08:43 PM
Seruisly if you think about it we have a legitimate team or can have one...

DeJesus...All-Star
Grudz..All-Star
Pena Jr....great defens cut down the errors
Teahen...All Star
Buck....getting better and can be servicable
Gordon..not ready for the majors but will be
Butler..looks fine at the plate to me for a rookie

get Gathwright's stick up to .250 -.275 and we can field a decent team

I agree. Heck get Shealy's head out of his a$$ when he gets off the DL and the Royals have a great base to work off. I agree with you that Moore needs to find his Whitey or Dick Howser.

Cochise
05-10-2007, 08:45 PM
people keep pointing to the Yanks...why? When did they win a series last? How are the Twins and Oakland in the run for everything year in and out? How did the Tigers turn it around so fast?


When did any of those teams win a series last?

petegz28
05-10-2007, 08:47 PM
I agree. Heck get Shealy's head out of his a$$ when he gets off the DL and the Royals have a great base to work off. I agree with you that Moore needs to find his Whitey or Dick Howser.


On 610 after the game the guys were talking about maybe Bell is Moore's fall guy and Moore will bring in a different coach once more of our younger players are up.

I still contend though that if you are going to field a younger team you need more of a coaching manager than a manager who coaches.


I think we need to take a page out of the White Sox playbook and make Frank White our manager. I mean he has even coached a lot of the younger guys we have coming up. It just makes too much sense.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 08:53 PM
When did any of those teams win a series last?


Well as I said I am not expecting us to win a series. I just want us to compete and maybe sneak in as those teams would have too. However they are 90+ win teams and they don't have huge payrolls. We need to spend more ala Gil Meche but we don't need to buy an all-star team like the Yanks try to do each year. Notice the two best players for the Yanks, Jeter and Posada were not free agent signings?

So yes we need to spend where we can particularly the bull pen but we need a coach who understands how to win. Bell has never won. I defended him but I am at the point now I am lying to myself to say he is a good coach. He does a decent job managing the lineup. He does a terrible job of coaching.

How many sac bunts do we have this season?
How many steals?
How many strike outs?
How many errors?

these are all things a good manager will coach.

We have no sac bunts to speak of...
we have hardly any steals...
we are in the top 5 for K's
and we committ 1-2 errors a game

I played baseball long enough to know coaches effect your fundamentals. That was why Pena had us so good for a bit cause he coached those things. Then he went and got cocky or stupid take your pick.

And all Bell can say game after game is ...."we have a bunch of guys struggling right now".

banyon
05-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Poor coaching + poor bullpen = why the Royals suck.
Our offense and starting pitching for the most part is good enough to win a few ballgames.

I agree get Bell out of there. I dont know who to get right now, but gosh it cant be that hard to replace him.

The bolded part and not just bad luck is definitely responsible for our record in one-run games. Since 1999, the Royals are 115-198 in one-run games. That is 32 games behind the Baltimore Orioles, the next-worst team.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 09:02 PM
The bolded part and not just bad luck is definitely responsible for our record in one-run games. Since 1999, the Royals are 115-198 in one-run games. That is 32 games behind the Baltimore Orioles, the next-worst team.


Honestly I think we may have fixed some of that problem with Soria and Dotel. Of course we have yet to see Dotel but Soria has been a nice suprise and I can't really complain about Gobble and Peralta and even Duckworth coming out of the pen. Our problem has been the Riske's Musser's and Wellemyer's.

However I am convinced at this point Grienke is a joke. He has a good game here and there early in the season but that's it. I don't think he has it between the ears personally to be a good pitcher and I hope he proves me wrong.

Slick32
05-10-2007, 09:07 PM
And the mighty Yankess only one it once during that time.

That wasn't the point. It's the ability to attract good players. There might be a few good players on the team, but not near enough to be competitive.

Just for arguments sake, how many of those years were the Yankees in the playoffs and how many years were the Royals in the playoffs?

petegz28
05-10-2007, 09:07 PM
Here is the sad part of this series...

Kennedy, 1-2, won for the first time year and improved to 40-54 in his seven-year career, by limiting the Royals to three runs and four hits in six innings. Jay Witasick, Jay Marshall and Lenny DiNardo each contributed one scoreless inning of relief.

The six homers allowed tied a Royals record, a low achieved on seven previous occasions. The most recent was June 11, 2006 in an 8-2 loss to Tampa Bay.

The loss closed out a 3-7 homestand for the Royals in which their last three losses came against suspect starters Chad Durbin, Chad Gaudin and Kennedy. They mustered exactly six runs and 14 hits in 21 2/3 innings against that big three.

http://www.kansascity.com/159/story/101927.html

ChiefsCountry
05-10-2007, 09:18 PM
Has anybody noticed Milwaukee this year? That is what the Royals need to try to be.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 09:24 PM
Has anybody noticed Milwaukee this year? That is what the Royals need to try to be.


Well it isn't really hard. We would of won at least 4-5 more games if we knew how to bunt.

See this is real simple. You add up how many in your starting 9 are 20+ HR hitters. If the answer is less than 7 you better know how to put bunts down. You better know how to steal and run the bases. And you better not strike out 9 times a game.

'Hamas' Jenkins
05-10-2007, 09:42 PM
Seruisly if you think about it we have a legitimate team or can have one...

DeJesus...All-Star
Grudz..All-Star
Pena Jr....great defens cut down the errors
Teahen...All Star
Buck....getting better and can be servicable
Gordon..not ready for the majors but will be
Butler..looks fine at the plate to me for a rookie

get Gathwright's stick up to .250 -.275 and we can field a decent team
:spock:

That's one of the most optimistic posts I've ever seen.

'Hamas' Jenkins
05-10-2007, 09:43 PM
Has anybody noticed Milwaukee this year? That is what the Royals need to try to be.

Do you have a lights out bullpen??

Cochise
05-10-2007, 09:52 PM
:spock:

That's one of the most optimistic posts I've ever seen.

Well, you do have to be criminally insane to think that anyone could be doing much better with this lineup.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 09:55 PM
:spock:

That's one of the most optimistic posts I've ever seen.


Check the stats...

DeJesus tops in the league for OBP and solid D
Teahen has to be tops in assists
Pena makes sick plays at SS just crews up to many easy ones
Grudz is a gold glover...nothing more need be said there
Meche and Soria are pitcing lights out.

'Hamas' Jenkins
05-10-2007, 09:59 PM
Well, you do have to be criminally insane to think that anyone could be doing much better with this lineup.

If Teahen learns to cut down on his K's, he'll be a very good #2 or #4 hitter. He does a good job of drawing walks, hits for a good average, and has nice pop. But calling him an all-star at this point is a huge stretch based upon a 1-month hot streak.

Butler and Gordon obviously have all the tools, but the success rate of top prospects and draft picks in baseball is lower than any other sport. They can both be great, great players, but it's not a certainty.

DeJesus will be an above average centerfielder, but an All-Star?? That's insane.

Buck can be a serviceable catcher (I'm not sure how good he is defensively) who hits for a reasonable average with a smidge of pop.

Grudzielanek an All-Star?? He's 400 years old.

KC still doesn't have a SS, 2B, 1B, or corner outfielder. Shealy has shown nothing , Emil Brown is almost 30 and will never be more than a bench player, Sweeney is near the end, German is a utility/bench guy.

Does KC have any SS or 2b propects in their system, cause that seems like a huge hole, and if Shealy doesn't work out, they're going to have to look for replacements for half of their everyday lineup just to be competitive, (OF, 2B, 1B, SS) because Butler is so bad defensively, he'll probably have to be a career DH.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 10:01 PM
If Teahen learns to cut down on his K's, he'll be a very good #2 or #4 hitter. He does a good job of drawing walks, hits for a good average, and has nice pop. But calling him an all-star at this point is a huge stretch based upon a 1-month hot streak.

Butler and Gordon obviously have all the tools, but the success rate of top prospects and draft picks in baseball is lower than any other sport. They can both be great, great players, but it's not a certainty.

DeJesus will be an above average centerfielder, but an All-Star?? That's insane.

Buck can be a serviceable catcher (I'm not sure how good he is defensively) who hits for a reasonable average with a smidge of pop.

Grudzielanek an All-Star?? He's 400 years old.

KC still doesn't have a SS, 2B, 1B, or corner outfielder. Shealy has shown nothing , Emil Brown is almost 30 and will never be more than a bench player, Sweeney is near the end, German is a utility/bench guy.

Does KC have any SS or 2b propects in their system, cause that seems like a huge hole, and if Shealy doesn't work out, they're going to have to look for replacements for half of their everyday lineup just to be

competitive, (OF, 2B, 1B, SS) because Butler is so bad defensively, he'll probably have to be a career DH.


Dude Grudz won the gold glove and you say we don't ahve a 2nd baseman? Tehaen has already shot 6 guys from RF and you say that isn't all-star material? PLEASE!!!!!

If Pena would cut out some of the errant throws for easy plays, Shealy would hit .275 or so and Gordon comes around we have a solid infield. Greudz can play 2nd base forever. That being said I am not sure who we have to replace him when he does retire. But I can see Grudz playing another 3 years or so depending on if he thinks it worth it to play for the Royals anyway.

'Hamas' Jenkins
05-10-2007, 10:05 PM
Dude Grudz won the gold glove and you say we don't ahve a 2nd baseman? Tehaen has already shot 6 guys from RF and you say that isn't all-star material? PLEASE!!!!!

He's 38 years old. You aren't going to do anything this year, so how's he helping you long-term?

And I fail to see how a guy having 6 outfield assists makes him an all-star.

Manny Ramirez had 17 assists two years ago and is a terrible defensive outfielder. He had that many because people constantly challenged his arm, and were wise to do so, not because he had a cannon or was a good defender. He was an all-star because of his bat.

banyon
05-10-2007, 10:45 PM
Check the stats...

DeJesus tops in the league for OBP and solid D
Teahen has to be tops in assists
Pena makes sick plays at SS just crews up to many easy ones
Grudz is a gold glover...nothing more need be said there
Meche and Soria are pitcing lights out.

Do you really believe that any of those guys, including DeJesus, are in the top 3 (or 10 for OF or P) at their position in the AL?

The only guy that you might make an argument for is Meche, if he keeps it up.

My guess is that our All-Star will be Meche or Soria, because those will be the easiest spots for Jim Leyland to cram one of our people in at.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 10:57 PM
He's 38 years old. You aren't going to do anything this year, so how's he helping you long-term?

And I fail to see how a guy having 6 outfield assists makes him an all-star.

Manny Ramirez had 17 assists two years ago and is a terrible defensive outfielder. He had that many because people constantly challenged his arm, and were wise to do so, not because he had a cannon or was a good defender. He was an all-star because of his bat.


Manny plays LF not RF....big difference...much longer throws and at worse angels. And where does it say you can only be an all-star because of your bat?

petegz28
05-10-2007, 10:58 PM
Do you really believe that any of those guys, including DeJesus, are in the top 3 (or 10 for OF or P) at their position in the AL?

The only guy that you might make an argument for is Meche, if he keeps it up.

My guess is that our All-Star will be Meche or Soria, because those will be the easiest spots for Jim Leyland to cram one of our people in at.


Yes I would put DeJesus and Teahen in the top 10 OF right now sure. Go check their stats you may suprise yourself

Sam Hall
05-10-2007, 11:01 PM
I wonder if Bell would resign well before his seat got hot. A man can only take so much, and it's going to be a couple years before the team may contend.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 11:13 PM
Do you really believe that any of those guys, including DeJesus, are in the top 3 (or 10 for OF or P) at their position in the AL?

The only guy that you might make an argument for is Meche, if he keeps it up.

My guess is that our All-Star will be Meche or Soria, because those will be the easiest spots for Jim Leyland to cram one of our people in at.

Comapring AL outfielders...

Right now DeJesus and Teahen Rank 6th adn 7th for total put outs and Teahen is tied for the lead in assists

David DeJesus is #2 in the AL for hits and Teahen is 9th
David DeJesus is 6th in the AL for triples
DeJesus is 7th in total bases
Teahen is 9th in base on balls

hard to compare avg. and obp cause of people who have played few games being in the list.

which coincedentally DeJesus ranks 2nd in games played.

I'd say they both can have arguments made to send them to the all stars

banyon
05-10-2007, 11:27 PM
Yes I would put DeJesus and Teahen in the top 10 OF right now sure. Go check their stats you may suprise yourself

I don't think I will, because I follow fantasy BB pretty closely and those guys are both barely owned in 10-12 team leagues.

But here ya go:

DeJesus: .288, 4HR, 9 RBI, 27R
Teahen: .291, 3HR, 14RBI, 13R

Other notable AL OF's

V. Guerrero .354, 9HR ,32RBI, 18R
T. Hunter .328, 6HR, 22RBI, 21R
M. Ordonez .342, 6HR, 30RBI, 27R
A. Rios .283, 6HR, 20RBI, 21R
C. Crawford .289, 4HR, 17RBI, 17R (7SB)
G. Matthews .299, 4HR, 14RBI, 24R
N. Swisher .286, 6HR, 17RBI, 16R
V. Wells .274, 4HR, 17RBI, 21R
T. Nixon .311, 2HR, 15 RBI, 16R
C. Granderson .270, 6HR, 15RBI, 23R

I don't think DeJesus or Teahen's numbers are better than any of those 10 guys, and last year there were only 9 OF slots.

This list, of course doesn't include Manny Ramirez, Ichiro, or any of the Yankees OF's who are off to slow starts and will get voted in due to their popularity.

No way both are All-Star OF's, and those were two of the better guys that you thought deserved that label.

beavis
05-10-2007, 11:37 PM
I think we need to stop kidding ourselves here. There are a lot of players that are very average on this team. DeJesus is a nice player, but upper tier? I don't think so. Teahan put up some nice numbers last year, but really has no business hitting third in a major league lineup. Grud may have won a gold glove, but a lot of that had to do with him consistantly making the routine plays. He's not going to take away a lot of hits. A sure sign that your lineup blows is when he is hitting second everyday. There are really two guys that have potential superstar potential: Gordon and Butler, and I'm really afraid they were rushed.

Bottom line, almost everyone in our lineup would someone any other team would plug in as a stop gap. There is a ton of work to be done to get this team back to respectability. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the everyday players (DeJesus, Teahan, Grud) end up getting traded at some point. The one thing I really like about Moore so far is the emphasis he's put on finding pitching. Granted, not a lot of them have worked out so far, but he seems to understand that is what's needed, which is something that Baird got.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 11:41 PM
I don't think I will, because I follow fantasy BB pretty closely and those guys are both barely owned in 10-12 team leagues.

But here ya go:

DeJesus: .288, 4HR, 9 RBI, 27R
Teahen: .291, 3HR, 14RBI, 13R

Other notable AL OF's

V. Guerrero .354, 9HR ,32RBI, 18R
T. Hunter .328, 6HR, 22RBI, 21R
M. Ordonez .342, 6HR, 30RBI, 27R
A. Rios .283, 6HR, 20RBI, 21R
C. Crawford .289, 4HR, 17RBI, 17R (7SB)
G. Matthews .299, 4HR, 14RBI, 24R
N. Swisher .286, 6HR, 17RBI, 16R
V. Wells .274, 4HR, 17RBI, 21R
T. Nixon .311, 2HR, 15 RBI, 16R
C. Granderson .270, 6HR, 15RBI, 23R

I don't think DeJesus or Teahen's numbers are better than any of those 10 guys, and last year there were only 9 OF slots.

This list, of course doesn't include Manny Ramirez, Ichiro, or any of the Yankees OF's who are off to slow starts and will get voted in due to their popularity.

No way both are All-Star OF's, and those were two of the better guys that you thought deserved that label.


Well you are looking at just pure offensive stats. There are 2 sides to baseball. RBI's aren't really the fault of these 2 considering we have few guys on base.

You can't or shouldn't judge players from a fantasy perspective.

Out of OF's with the most at bats DeJesus is 2nd with 139. His OBP is .369 which is 2nd, his SLG is .439 which is 2nd and his average .288 is 2nd. RBI's are last cause he is a leadoff hitter.

The guy is 2nd in the AL in hits and is a leadoff hitter. WTF more do you want offensively man? Out of the people that been to the plate the most he is 2nd across the board. Good grief.

And throw the batting averages out cause most scouts and managers look at OBP and SLG

Oh yeah and he is 2nd in TB's, BB's 1st in triples, tied for 2nd in HR's and 4th in K's.

Now out of the 5 OF's that have been to the plate the most hwo can you say he is not top 10?

petegz28
05-10-2007, 11:44 PM
I think we need to stop kidding ourselves here. There are a lot of players that are very average on this team. DeJesus is a nice player, but upper tier? I don't think so. Teahan put up some nice numbers last year, but really has no business hitting third in a major league lineup. Grud may have won a gold glove, but a lot of that had to do with him consistantly making the routine plays. He's not going to take away a lot of hits. A sure sign that your lineup blows is when he is hitting second everyday. There are really two guys that have potential superstar potential: Gordon and Butler, and I'm really afraid they were rushed.

Bottom line, almost everyone in our lineup would someone any other team would plug in as a stop gap. There is a ton of work to be done to get this team back to respectability. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the everyday players (DeJesus, Teahan, Grud) end up getting traded at some point. The one thing I really like about Moore so far is the emphasis he's put on finding pitching. Granted, not a lot of them have worked out so far, but he seems to understand that is what's needed, which is something that Baird got.


Dude I saw Grudz take one away today. He turned arguably one of the most spectacular double plays last year I have ever seen. And he made more routine plays than any other 2nd basemen. What more do you want?

beavis
05-10-2007, 11:48 PM
Dude I saw Grudz take one away today. He turned arguably one of the most spectacular double plays last year I have ever seen. And he made more routine plays than any other 2nd basemen. What more do you want?
How about basing your evaluation on a sample size of more than 2, for starters.

petegz28
05-10-2007, 11:51 PM
How about basing your evaluation on a sample size of more than 2, for starters.


Um I did. And so did the league which is why he won the Gold Glove. Got it?

I am trying to figure out what you people consider "good"?

I mean if winning a Gold Glove isn't good enough for you then WTF is?

petegz28
05-10-2007, 11:53 PM
And let me remind you I do believe Guillen said the only reason Redman went last year and not Grudz was he didn't want another 2nd basemen

banyon
05-15-2007, 04:19 PM
Well you are looking at just pure offensive stats. There are 2 sides to baseball. RBI's aren't really the fault of these 2 considering we have few guys on base.

You can't or shouldn't judge players from a fantasy perspective.

Out of OF's with the most at bats DeJesus is 2nd with 139. His OBP is .369 which is 2nd, his SLG is .439 which is 2nd and his average .288 is 2nd. RBI's are last cause he is a leadoff hitter.

The guy is 2nd in the AL in hits and is a leadoff hitter. WTF more do you want offensively man? Out of the people that been to the plate the most he is 2nd across the board. Good grief.

And throw the batting averages out cause most scouts and managers look at OBP and SLG

Oh yeah and he is 2nd in TB's, BB's 1st in triples, tied for 2nd in HR's and 4th in K's.

Now out of the 5 OF's that have been to the plate the most hwo can you say he is not top 10?

Hey, I finally had a chance to look at this reply. Since you believe this so fervently, do you care to make it interesting?

I don't mind taking your money, or your pride.

HemiEd
05-15-2007, 04:52 PM
I think this should serve as an excellent example, to the people on here that want the Chiefs to suck ass, so they can get to the SB. The sucking part is easy, the getting better not so much.

There are so many intangebles that make up a loser and a winner.

I am waiting to hear how the Royals need to "learn how to win."

sportsman1
05-15-2007, 06:38 PM
How many managers have we gone through since 1985? Point is everytime we change managers nothing new happens. Tony Muser and Tony Pena aren't that of horrible managers nor is Bell. There is apattern that is unignorible.

Cochise
05-15-2007, 06:50 PM
How many managers have we gone through since 1985? Point is everytime we change managers nothing new happens. Tony Muser and Tony Pena aren't that of horrible managers nor is Bell. There is apattern that is unignorible.

Well, 6 excluding interim managers.

The problem is that the talent level has never been very high, which is the fault of the GMs.

The managers could have won a couple more games here and there, but really they were all just trying to make the best of a bad situation and the team hasn't had the talent to post a winning record since the early 90s (if you discount 2003, which appears to have been an aberration.)

banyon
07-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Well you are looking at just pure offensive stats. There are 2 sides to baseball. RBI's aren't really the fault of these 2 considering we have few guys on base.

You can't or shouldn't judge players from a fantasy perspective.

Out of OF's with the most at bats DeJesus is 2nd with 139. His OBP is .369 which is 2nd, his SLG is .439 which is 2nd and his average .288 is 2nd. RBI's are last cause he is a leadoff hitter.

The guy is 2nd in the AL in hits and is a leadoff hitter. WTF more do you want offensively man? Out of the people that been to the plate the most he is 2nd across the board. Good grief.

And throw the batting averages out cause most scouts and managers look at OBP and SLG

Oh yeah and he is 2nd in TB's, BB's 1st in triples, tied for 2nd in HR's and 4th in K's.

Now out of the 5 OF's that have been to the plate the most hwo can you say he is not top 10?

Hey, I finally had a chance to look at this reply. Since you believe this so fervently, do you care to make it interesting?

I don't mind taking your money, or your pride.

Good thing you are not a betting man. :D

beavis
07-02-2007, 05:29 PM
Good thing you are not a betting man. :D
I wish you could have gotten him to wager his post creating capabilities.