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View Full Version : KC - Miami TO Talk Trade Again??


MADDOG MIKE
05-14-2007, 07:18 PM
Take this with a grain of salt.....
Dolphin board saying it was reported by ESPN..

LINK: http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=196577

Ebolapox
05-14-2007, 07:22 PM
HAHA


My pipe dream was:

Daunte Culpepper and Chris Chambers (and we can toss in Ricky if he gets reinstated before the deal)

for

Trent Green and Larry Johnson

ROFL

ChiefsCountry
05-14-2007, 07:23 PM
A few of the idiots want Green for Chambers deal. I would do that in a heart beat, but any smart GM would not even try that deal.

MADDOG MIKE
05-14-2007, 07:25 PM
HAHA



ROFL

Phins must think we are a push over...
I hope something thats FAIR to both sides gets done...

el borracho
05-14-2007, 07:26 PM
Great! So I should be looking for that to happen whenever?

MADDOG MIKE
05-14-2007, 07:28 PM
Great! So I should be looking for that to happen whenever?

I don't know.....
Did anyone else hear ESPN report this?

SLAG
05-14-2007, 07:36 PM
I don't know.....
Did anyone else hear ESPN report this?


I heard ESPN would report it for $500 and access to someone with a press pass

CoMoChief
05-14-2007, 07:39 PM
Chambers for Green would make me hold a city parade for Carl.

cookster50
05-14-2007, 07:40 PM
Nice to know the fins have a lot of moron posters giving trade ideas just like us at the Planet. Let's trade our backup jock strap adjuster for 2 all pros from the other team!!!

DT4everaChief
05-14-2007, 07:43 PM
A few of the idiots want Green for Chambers deal. I would do that in a heart beat, but any smart GM would not even try that deal.

Is Marty Booker still with the Dolphins. I could forsee Trent being traded for him. I dont think the Dolphins would give up Chambers. Booker would be a fair deal.

Deberg_1990
05-14-2007, 07:49 PM
Chambers doesnt really fit the type of WR that the DV/Martz/Cameron/Saunders offense requires...


There might be a kernal of truth to this...

CoMoChief
05-14-2007, 07:52 PM
Chambers doesnt really fit the type of WR that the DV/Martz/Cameron/Saunders offense requires...


There might be a kernal of truth to this...

What type of WR is that?

Deberg_1990
05-14-2007, 07:54 PM
What type of WR is that?

Smallish, but quick. In and out of cuts.

I dont know too much about Chambers other than hes big. Hes never really struck me as a smooth route runner.

el borracho
05-14-2007, 07:54 PM
Nice to know the fins have a lot of moron posters giving trade ideas just like us at the Planet. Let's trade our backup jock strap adjuster for 2 all pros from the other team!!!
Sounds good but... do the Dolphins have two all-pros?

Direckshun
05-14-2007, 07:57 PM
Fin Heaven is just a mess, isn't it.

I hope we're never involved in a trade with Miami ever again.

ClevelandBronco
05-14-2007, 08:00 PM
Smallish, but quick. In and out of cuts.

I dont know too much about Chambers other than hes big. Hes never really struck me as a smooth route runner.

5'-11", 210 lbs. is big?

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235203

Deberg_1990
05-14-2007, 08:03 PM
5'-11", 210 lbs. is big?

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235203

Not huge.....but not small either.

Hes not like Marvin Harrison, Issac Bruce,..even Torry Holt isnt 200 pounds.

CoMoChief
05-14-2007, 08:08 PM
Smallish, but quick. In and out of cuts.

I dont know too much about Chambers other than hes big. Hes never really struck me as a smooth route runner.

He's not really that much bigger. I dont even think he's 6ft tall.

CoMoChief
05-14-2007, 08:09 PM
Not huge.....but not small either.

Hes not like Marvin Harrison, Issac Bruce,..even Torry Holt isnt 200 pounds.

You can't tell the difference between 190 and 200lbs.

Mr. Laz
05-14-2007, 08:35 PM
You can't tell the difference between 190 and 200lbs.
but it usually shows up in the quickness in and out of breaks

The Bad Guy
05-14-2007, 08:45 PM
**** those teal and orange loving homos.

Tribal Warfare
05-14-2007, 08:57 PM
Chambers doesnt really fit the type of WR that the DV/Martz/Cameron/Saunders offense requires...


There might be a kernal of truth to this...


If I remember correctly DV wanted to pick Chambers in the 2nd but Miami traded a spot ahead of KC to select him

Tribal Warfare
05-14-2007, 09:00 PM
You can't tell the difference between 190 and 200lbs.


it depends on the build dante Hall is 5'8 and 188 to 190 pounds in comparison to Barry Sanders who was 5'8 and 200 pounds when he played. In comparison to build Sanders is a shit load more compact.

Valiant
05-14-2007, 09:56 PM
What type of WR is that?


IF it was the Vermiel/Saunders only in KC WR, then I would say a good one... Cause we have never had a True #1 threat that teams have to really account for...

Flustrated
05-14-2007, 10:43 PM
A few of the idiots want Green for Chambers deal. I would do that in a heart beat, but any smart GM would not even try that deal.


Why trade for Chambers? He's not known for his run-blocking ability. :rolleyes:

bigbucks24
05-14-2007, 10:50 PM
Fin Heaven is just a mess, isn't it.

I hope we're never involved in a trade with Miami ever again.
Why do you say this?

Chiefs Pantalones
05-14-2007, 11:39 PM
I saw this on SportsCenter today. Michael Smith said the two teams are going to start talking again this week and try and hammer something out. It's going to be the first time the two have talked since the draft.

Direckshun
05-14-2007, 11:45 PM
Why do you say this?
Mostly because I mean it, but which part do you mean, so I can appropriately insult you.

ChiefsCountry
05-15-2007, 12:53 AM
If Carl got Chambers, our WR core would have took a complete turnaround. Chambers, Kennison, Bowe, and Parker would probally be the best WR tandem in the AFC West.

StcChief
05-15-2007, 06:35 AM
HAHA
Quote:Originally Posted by stoned phin phan

My pipe dream was:

Daunte Culpepper and Chris Chambers (and we can toss in Ricky if he gets reinstated before the deal)

for

Trent Green and Larry Johnson

Well it is south Fla. guy must of picked up a Bale that washed up....

ROFL

CoMoChief
05-15-2007, 06:44 AM
If Carl got Chambers, our WR core would have took a complete turnaround. Chambers, Kennison, Bowe, and Parker would probally be the best WR tandem in the AFC West.

DEN's would still be better IMO.

patteeu
05-15-2007, 08:01 AM
My understanding is that this is some kind of league meeting that both GMs will be attending so it's simply an opportunity to meet face to face as opposed to a get together specifically targeting the Trent-to-Miami issue. As such, I wouldn't get my hopes up for a quick resolution just yet.

el borracho
05-15-2007, 08:02 AM
My understanding is that this is some kind of league meeting that both GMs will be attending so it's simply an opportunity to meet face to face as opposed to a get together specifically targeting the Trent-to-Miami issue. As such, I wouldn't get my hopes up for a quick resolution just yet.
We're saved!!

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 09:10 AM
DEN's would still be better IMO.
Denver would have a better WR core than Chambers-Kennison-Bowe?

R. Smith
D. Kircus
Q. Morgan
B. Clark
J. Walker
B. Marshall
B. Stokley
D. Terrell

Tell me who exactly on this list I should be terrified of.

Walker's a dangerous receiver, and Stokley's going to be good when he's healthy, but Smith's on a serious decline, making him a passable third option.

Denver's going to have a good starting lineup at WR when they're healthy, but I'd be concerned about their depth. Quincy Morgan's the only other WR they have that's put up good numbers in his career and that was years ago.

Ebolapox
05-15-2007, 09:12 AM
DEN's would still be better IMO.

and they have who exactly? darius watts? not impressed. rod smith? old, slow, reliable, but not nearly what he used to be. javon walker? he's the only guy I'd take over any of our WRs, and I'm not so sure that bowe won't be there in a few years

I'd take ours over theirs any day of the week

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 09:17 AM
and they have who exactly? darius watts? not impressed. rod smith? old, slow, reliable, but not nearly what he used to be. javon walker? he's the only guy I'd take over any of our WRs, and I'm not so sure that bowe won't be there in a few years

I'd take ours over theirs any day of the week
Not to mention that if just half of our young guys pan out over the next couple of years (Bowe, Webb, Hannon, Eck), we will have rebuilt a WR core in one offseason into a unit that could last us upwards of eight to ten years.

Ebolapox
05-15-2007, 09:20 AM
Not to mention that if just half of our young guys pan out over the next couple of years (Bowe, Webb, Hannon, Eck), we will have rebuilt a WR core in one offseason into a unit that could last us upwards of eight to ten years.

yep. I have to watch the optimism, though, because the chiefs have done nothing but sh*t on my sunshine since I was six years old

boogblaster
05-15-2007, 09:20 AM
Frick that, Green for a good Olineman would be best ....

keg in kc
05-15-2007, 10:02 AM
Frick that, Green for a good Olineman would be best ....This is miami you're talking about. They don't have any.

MADDOG MIKE
05-15-2007, 11:01 AM
This is miami you're talking about. They don't have any.

LMFAO.....
You got that straight.....

ct
05-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Denver would have a better WR core than Chambers-Kennison-Bowe?

R. Smith
D. Kircus
Q. Morgan
B. Clark
J. Walker
B. Marshall
B. Stokley
D. Terrell

Tell me who exactly on this list I should be terrified of.

Walker's a dangerous receiver, and Stokley's going to be good when he's healthy, but Smith's on a serious decline, making him a passable third option.

Denver's going to have a good starting lineup at WR when they're healthy, but I'd be concerned about their depth. Quincy Morgan's the only other WR they have that's put up good numbers in his career and that was years ago.

Rod Smith at the end of his career is better than Chambers will EVAH be. And Brandon Marshall, is gonna be good.

Walker, Smith, Marshall > Chambers, Kennison, Bowe

wockenbauss
05-15-2007, 12:41 PM
Frick that, Green for a good Olineman would be best ....

This is miami you're talking about. They don't have any.

LMFAO.....
You got that straight.....

Is this like a movie promo for the "Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest..."?

Uuuuuhhhh yeah... they suc!!!! HAHAHAHAHA Nevermind my Chiefs team is signing their discarded Tackles to multi-million dollar deals!

Brock
05-15-2007, 12:52 PM
Is this like a movie promo for the "Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest..."?

Uuuuuhhhh yeah... they suc!!!! HAHAHAHAHA Nevermind my Chiefs team is signing their discarded Tackles to multi-million dollar deals!

I take it you don't think McIntosh is better than Black....

wockenbauss
05-15-2007, 01:55 PM
I take it you don't think McIntosh is better than Black....

Actually, from what I know of Jordan Black (which isn't very much as a Dolphins fan)... I think McIntosh will likely be an upgrade for the Chiefs. Fewer sacks allowed, albeit more false start penalties IMO.

The point I was trying to make, is that McIntosh was FAR from the best tackle on the Dolphins last year. The guy was working under a 1 year veteran minimum contract in 2006... and without 6 different Dolphin guards getting injured last season (and Damion's inability to play RT or inside) he might not have even seen the field in 2006.

But for some team to come along and sign him to a big money deal, and then have their fans state that the remaining O-Linemen in Miami aren't any good... is just ludicrous. It borders on moronic.

McIntosh is an adequate LT IMHO... you can get away with him at LT as long as you game plan him help in critical situations (RB chips... TE help... etc...). Based on what I know of Black... McIntosh WILL likely be an upgrade at least pass-blocking wise.

ClevelandBronco
05-15-2007, 02:26 PM
and they have who exactly? darius watts? not impressed...

Darius Watts?

Hey, about your opinion: Not impressed...

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493109

Ebolapox
05-15-2007, 02:28 PM
Darius Watts?

Hey, about your opinion: Not impressed...

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493109

my point still stands (whether he's a bronkkko or not ;))

I'm not impressed with him as a player (heh, you expect me to stay up on the bronco's updated roster? HAH)

Easy 6
05-15-2007, 02:34 PM
Actually, from what I know of Jordan Black (which isn't very much as a Dolphins fan)... I think McIntosh will likely be an upgrade for the Chiefs. Fewer sacks allowed, albeit more false start penalties IMO.

The point I was trying to make, is that McIntosh was FAR from the best tackle on the Dolphins last year. The guy was working under a 1 year veteran minimum contract in 2006... and without 6 different Dolphin guards getting injured last season (and Damion's inability to play RT or inside) he might not have even seen the field in 2006.

But for some team to come along and sign him to a big money deal, and then have their fans state that the remaining O-Linemen in Miami aren't any good... is just ludicrous. It borders on moronic.

McIntosh is an adequate LT IMHO... you can get away with him at LT as long as you game plan him help in critical situations (RB chips... TE help... etc...). Based on what I know of Black... McIntosh WILL likely be an upgrade at least pass-blocking wise.

I'm not claiming McIntosh as the next Roaf, but i think your guilty of what a lot of football fans are guilty of...downgrading a guy once he leaves your team.

His numbers over the last 2 years & in particular last year, were TOP shelf & on pace with the NFL's elite as far as sacks allowed & holding penalties.

I like the way you make your arguments, but your still a fins homer with a skewed view.

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 02:37 PM
Rod Smith at the end of his career is better than Chambers will EVAH be. And Brandon Marshall, is gonna be good.

Walker, Smith, Marshall > Chambers, Kennison, Bowe
I disagree. Smith has declined rapidly the last couple of years, and I don't even know if he'll be a #3 WR this year with Marshall on the incline. Kennison's stemmed his decline far much better.

Marshall's going to be good? I'm sure. Bowe's going to be better.

I give Walker the only nod the Broncos get in this matchup when I rank him over Chambers.

Top 3 WRs for the Chiefs > top 3 for the Donks.

Not to mention, if only half the young WRs on the Chiefs roster this year pan out, they're set at the major WR positions for the next five to ten years, which is something the Donks can't say.

ClevelandBronco
05-15-2007, 02:50 PM
I disagree. Smith has declined rapidly the last couple of years, and I don't even know if he'll be a #3 WR this year with Marshall on the incline. Kennison's stemmed his decline far much better.

Well, Rod is three years older than Eddie. Let's see how far Eddie has declined three years from now. Hell, let's see if he's still on anyone's roster three years from now.

BTW: Happy birthday, Rod. (Since I'm sure you're reading this, and all...)

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 02:55 PM
Well, Rod is three years older than Eddie. Let's see how far Eddie has declined three years from now. Hell, let's see if he's still on anyone's roster three years from now.
I'm not comparing Smith's year-to-year production to Kennison's three years from now. I'm comparing their year-to-year production now.

I don't blame him for it, but Smith has slipped far more than Kennison has the past couple of years, and Kennison stands today as the superior receiver.

ClevelandBronco
05-15-2007, 03:08 PM
I'm not comparing Smith's year-to-year production to Kennison's three years from now. I'm comparing their year-to-year production now.

I don't blame him for it, but Smith has slipped far more than Kennison has the past couple of years, and Kennison stands today as the superior receiver.

You're correct about receiving numbers in 2006. However, both the Chiefs and the Broncos had some pretty weird stuff to deal with in the passing game last year. It's hard to judge clearly whether the drop off was due to the receivers' declines or due to inconsistent passing, play calling, etc.

As for Smith declining over the "past couple of years," as you say, the numbers don't support your assertion. Rod's decline was in 2006 alone. He had better numbers than Eddie in 2006 (barely) and 2005 (clearly).

the Talking Can
05-15-2007, 03:42 PM
Actually, from what I know of Jordan Black (which isn't very much as a Dolphins fan)... I think McIntosh will likely be an upgrade for the Chiefs. Fewer sacks allowed, albeit more false start penalties IMO.

The point I was trying to make, is that McIntosh was FAR from the best tackle on the Dolphins last year. The guy was working under a 1 year veteran minimum contract in 2006... and without 6 different Dolphin guards getting injured last season (and Damion's inability to play RT or inside) he might not have even seen the field in 2006.

But for some team to come along and sign him to a big money deal, and then have their fans state that the remaining O-Linemen in Miami aren't any good... is just ludicrous. It borders on moronic.

McIntosh is an adequate LT IMHO... you can get away with him at LT as long as you game plan him help in critical situations (RB chips... TE help... etc...). Based on what I know of Black... McIntosh WILL likely be an upgrade at least pass-blocking wise.

we signed a LT to a 6yr deal with only a 3 mill signing bonus and you're claiming that is a "big money deal"?

wtf?

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 05:16 PM
You're correct about receiving numbers in 2006. However, both the Chiefs and the Broncos had some pretty weird stuff to deal with in the passing game last year. It's hard to judge clearly whether the drop off was due to the receivers' declines or due to inconsistent passing, play calling, etc.

As for Smith declining over the "past couple of years," as you say, the numbers don't support your assertion. Rod's decline was in 2006 alone. He had better numbers than Eddie in 2006 (barely) and 2005 (clearly).
I'm not talking numbers alone -- although they do indicate that Rod's numbers are starting to reflect his abilities.

I don't watch 16 Donks games a year, but I do catch them twice a year against us and nearly every prime time appearance they make. Smith's step is getting a lot slower. It was noticeable five years ago, and it's continued to the point where his savvy can't really make up for it anymore. He can't make it to the holes in the defense like he used to.

Kennison's abilities haven't really changed in five years, for better and for worse. He's still a pretty good burner, and he still gets separation more often than not. Still has the tendency to disappear, and still has the tendency to drop balls. Just call him Eddie "Still" Kennison.

I should mention real quick that I have a lot of respect for Smith. The guy's like Kennison -- ageless veteran leader on the field, has a history of great quotes, always plays to help the team win.

wockenbauss
05-15-2007, 05:44 PM
I'm not claiming McIntosh as the next Roaf, but i think your guilty of what a lot of football fans are guilty of...downgrading a guy once he leaves your team.

His numbers over the last 2 years & in particular last year, were TOP shelf & on pace with the NFL's elite as far as sacks allowed & holding penalties.

I like the way you make your arguments, but your still a fins homer with a skewed view.

LOL Fair enough. If your expecting "elite" from Damion McIntosh, I know for a fact your going to be sadly disappointed.

The facts are what they are. No team wanted McIntosh in 2006... he was out on the market for a LONG time, and finally resigned with Miami for a 1 year veteran minimum deal. He sat the bench the first three games until the Guard injuries piled up to the point a major reworking of the OL lineup was in order.

McIntosh was tried at RT in late training camp, and said he couldn't get used to the reversed footwork.... he was tried inside at Guard (due to injuries) and was ineffective. Finally they moved him to LT, and Shelton to RG.

I think you'll find McIntosh to be exactly what I said... an adequate LT as long as you provide some RB/TE help in critical situations. IF you continually leave him out on an island (especially with a rookie QB who may not make the fastest decisions)... you better be more than confident in your backup.

we signed a LT to a 6yr deal with only a 3 mill signing bonus and you're claiming that is a "big money deal"?

wtf?

Everything is relative... but considering he was working on a 1 year veteran minimum deal in 2006, YEAH - a 3 million dollar signing bonus is roughly 4.5 times his 2006 take.... PLUS whatever your paying him in base salary.

And to think Jets fans are whining about paying Pete Kendall 1.7 million this year to play Guard. LOL

the Talking Can
05-15-2007, 05:49 PM
LOL Fair enough. If your expecting "elite" from Damion McIntosh, I know for a fact your going to be sadly disappointed.

The facts are what they are. No team wanted McIntosh in 2006... he was out on the market for a LONG time, and finally resigned with Miami for a 1 year veteran minimum deal. He sat the bench the first three games until the Guard injuries piled up to the point a major reworking of the OL lineup was in order.

McIntosh was tried at RT in late training camp, and said he couldn't get used to the reversed footwork.... he was tried inside at Guard (due to injuries) and was ineffective. Finally they moved him to LT, and Shelton to RG.

I think you'll find McIntosh to be exactly what I said... an adequate LT as long as you provide some RB/TE help in critical situations. IF you continually leave him out on an island (especially with a rookie QB who may not make the fastest decisions)... you better be more than confident in your backup.



Everything is relative... but considering he was working on a 1 year veteran minimum deal in 2006, YEAH - a 3 million dollar signing bonus is roughly 4.5 times his 2006 take.... PLUS whatever your paying him in base salary.

And to think Jets fans are whining about paying Pete Kendall 1.7 million this year to play Guard. LOL

a 3 mil bonus for a LT is not big money....and 18 mill contract over 6 years with only 6.5 mill gauranteed is not big money for a LT...sorry, you can't spin that....

ClevelandBronco
05-15-2007, 05:50 PM
I'm not talking numbers alone -- although they do indicate that Rod's numbers are starting to reflect his abilities.

I don't watch 16 Donks games a year, but I do catch them twice a year against us and nearly every prime time appearance they make. Smith's step is getting a lot slower. It was noticeable five years ago, and it's continued to the point where his savvy can't really make up for it anymore. He can't make it to the holes in the defense like he used to.

Kennison's abilities haven't really changed in five years, for better and for worse. He's still a pretty good burner, and he still gets separation more often than not. Still has the tendency to disappear, and still has the tendency to drop balls. Just call him Eddie "Still" Kennison.

I should mention real quick that I have a lot of respect for Smith. The guy's like Kennison -- ageless veteran leader on the field, has a history of great quotes, always plays to help the team win.

I agree with just about everything you said.

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 05:51 PM
McIntosh was tried at RT in late training camp, and said he couldn't get used to the reversed footwork.... he was tried inside at Guard (due to injuries) and was ineffective. Finally they moved him to LT, and Shelton to RG.
So he couldn't work at RT, and he was a failure at OG, so the Dolphins just figured "hey, since he's not working out at guard, let's move him to the most important position on the OL, that'll hide his weaknesses!"

Fact or fiction: McIntosh gave up a grand total of 9 sacks over the past two seasons at LT.

Fact or fiction: McIntosh was whistled for a mere handful of holding calls over the past two seasons at LT.

Fact of fiction: He produced these results on an woeful, patchwork OL.

All, fact.

Chiefs got an LT with good numbers and they signed him for a song, by LT standards.

wockenbauss
05-15-2007, 05:54 PM
a 3 mil bonus for a LT is not big money....and 18 mill contract over 6 years with only 6.5 mill gauranteed is not big money for a LT...sorry, you can't spin that....

Oh I'm not spinning it.... your kind of proving my point - because (as everyone knows) you usually get what you pay for. :)

Your right, its an eminently reasonable deal for a LT when you consider what elite players at the position make... but its equally true that in comparison to his veteran minimum (what like 700k) deal in 2006, this is a lot of money for Damion.

wockenbauss
05-15-2007, 06:07 PM
So he couldn't work at RT, and he was a failure at OG, so the Dolphins just figured "hey, since he's not working out at guard, let's move him to the most important position on the OL, that'll hide his weaknesses!"

Yeah, thats it dummy! LOL

McIntosh has only EVER played LT... and based on the last three years in Miami he isn't capable (or willing) to play another position.

Fact or fiction: McIntosh gave up a grand total of 9 sacks over the past two seasons at LT.

Fiction. I have him at 9.5 That goes to 18.5 if you count 3 years rather than 2.

http://realfootball365.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5112&team=15

Fact or fiction: McIntosh was whistled for a mere handful of holding calls over the past two seasons at LT.

Fact. Only two holding calls in the last three years... but SIXTEEN false start penalties.

Fact of fiction: He produced these results on an woeful, patchwork OL.

Fiction. The work of fevered Chiefs fans imaginations and hopes.

All, fact.

1 out of 3 is pretty pathetic. ;) j/k What those numbers do not tell you is how much help (in the form of RB chip blocks, and TE double's) McIntosh received. I said he can be an adequate LT in the NFL... I think you reading that as an insult, when it isn't meant that way. There are very very few elite LT's in this league, and there aren't a whole lot of adequate LT's either. Give McIntosh the help he needs, and he'll doa job for several years for you. If you think you signed Orlando Pace, and you leave him out there alone play after play.... your going to be SADLY disappointed.

Chiefs got an LT with good numbers and they signed him for a song, by LT standards.

As I said in a post above... you usually get what you pay for. :)

Count Zarth
05-15-2007, 06:13 PM
Dude, 16 false start penalties in three years is completely acceptable. So is 18.5 sacks.

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 06:19 PM
McIntosh has only EVER played LT... and based on the last three years in Miami he isn't capable (or willing) to play another position.
O noes... so McIntosh only wants to play at LT?

Good lord, a capable LT who could either provide us a few years of quality service at starter or god forbid, depth at the most important position on the OL.

Boo hooz for the Chiefs.
Fiction. I have him at 9.5.
L M A O

You win this round, you human sports encyclopedia you.
That goes to 18.5 if you count 3 years rather than 2.
So he's ascending.
Fact.
Thank yooooooooooou.
Fiction. The work of fevered Chiefs fans imaginations and hopes.
Yeah, my love for the Chiefs has been playing tricks (http://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/95331.html) on me again.

Were they not working McIntosh out at every OL position as a conceivable starter? Isn't that what you just told me?
If you think you signed Orlando Pace, and you leave him out there alone play after play.... your going to be SADLY disappointed.
Nobody's said we've signed a Pro Bowler.

We're saying we signed a good LT who's put up good protection numbers over the past couple years at a position of need for our football team.

Whose affection for their home team is affecting whose judgement now?

beer bacon
05-15-2007, 06:41 PM
Didn't Black give up something like 15 sacks last season?

Actually, it looks like he gave up 13.5 last season.

Also, I don't think I would qualify McIntosh as good. He is only good relative to Jordan Black.

Marco Polo
05-15-2007, 06:45 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs have such an inflated opinion of Trent Green's value that they even raised Chris Chambers' name in trade talks. The Dolphins, obviously, wouldn't do that.

http://www.miamiherald.com/588/story/105361.html

mdstu
05-15-2007, 07:18 PM
Oh I'm not spinning it.... your kind of proving my point - because (as everyone knows) you usually get what you pay for. :)

Your right, its an eminently reasonable deal for a LT when you consider what elite players at the position make... but its equally true that in comparison to his veteran minimum (what like 700k) deal in 2006, this is a lot of money for Damion.

I get the feeling that in your opinion, he will never be worth a dime over the vet minimum. And that is just silly.

htismaqe
05-15-2007, 08:08 PM
Fiction. I have him at 9.5 That goes to 18.5 if you count 3 years rather than 2.

http://realfootball365.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5112&team=15

Fact. Only two holding calls in the last three years... but SIXTEEN false start penalties.

Let's take a closer look at this.

It doesn't matter how many penalties he gave up, it only matters how many YARDS he cost his team.

In 3 seasons in Miami, he played in and started 43 games. In that time, he gave up 18.5 sacks and 117.5 yards in penalties. That works out to .43 sacks and 2.73 yards per game.

In the last 2 seasons, Black has started 25 games at tackle (he started 4 games at guard his rookie season), giving up 21 sacks and 154 yards in penalties. That's double the sacks and TRIPLE the penalty yards per game.

Buehler445
05-15-2007, 09:49 PM
Let's take a closer look at this.

It doesn't matter how many penalties he gave up, it only matters how many YARDS he cost his team.

In 3 seasons in Miami, he played in and started 43 games. In that time, he gave up 18.5 sacks and 117.5 yards in penalties. That works out to .43 sacks and 2.73 yards per game.

In the last 2 seasons, Black has started 25 games at tackle (he started 4 games at guard his rookie season), giving up 21 sacks and 154 yards in penalties. That's double the sacks and TRIPLE the penalty yards per game.

Very good analysis. I hadn't thought of breaking it down that way. The fact of the matter remains that Jordan Black was aweful. Hopefully McIntosh will be a relatively long term solution. How old is this guy.

wockenbauss
05-15-2007, 10:23 PM
O noes... so McIntosh only wants to play at LT?

Good lord, a capable LT who could either provide us a few years of quality service at starter or god forbid, depth at the most important position on the OL.

He only wants to play there (as an O-Lineman, who wouldn't - the money is MUCH better), and is only capable of playing there. Miami had better LT's on the team last season (and this season)... but McIntosh started there because the other players capable of playing LT are a lot more versatile.

You keep acting like I'm trying to DIS Damion, and that isn't the case. I'm just trying to convince you that Miami's O-Line isn't a big joke like you homer Chief fans seem to think. Damion is a decent player, and once again - an upgrade to what you had. BUT he received just a little bit less interest from Miami (as far as resigning him this offseason) than Carl Peterson did demanding a 2nd rounder from Miami for Trent Green. LOL

So he's ascending.

Yep. Damion played better as the O-Line improved around him (with the arrival of O-Line Coach Hudson Houck playing a major role as well)... and as the coaching staff became better at recognizing when Damion needed RB chip block and TE help.

Yeah, my love for the Chiefs has been playing tricks (http://www.miamiherald.com/614/story/95331.html) on me again.

Oh yes... everyone knows local beat writers should actually be GM's... because they know more than ANYBODY. LOL

Were they not working McIntosh out at every OL position as a conceivable starter? Isn't that what you just told me?

Yeah... I just told you last season we had six different payer injuries at the Guard position. Otherwise, McIntosh would never have seen the field.

We're saying we signed a good LT who's put up good protection numbers over the past couple years at a position of need for our football team.

Whose affection for their home team is affecting whose judgement now?

YOU! :) You signed an adequate LT, who'll be an upgrade to what you had... and just needs a little RB/TE help in critical situations.

Honestly... I think your just arguing to be arguing. lol

Direckshun
05-15-2007, 11:08 PM
Let's take a look at who's arguing to argue.

I say: Fact or fiction: [McIntosh] produced [good] results on an woeful, patchwork OL. You answer: Fiction. To which I ask: Were they not working McIntosh out at every OL position as a conceivable starter? Isn't that what you just told me? And you answer: I just told you last season we had six different player injuries at the Guard position. Otherwise, McIntosh would never have seen the field.
You're contradicting yourself. And so far as I can see, you're just doing it to **** around.

McIntosh produced, and he did it on a patchwork line.

Don't worry be happy.

wockenbauss
05-16-2007, 03:03 PM
Let's take a look at who's arguing to argue.

I say: You answer: To which I ask: And you answer:
You're contradicting yourself. And so far as I can see, you're just doing it to **** around.

McIntosh produced, and he did it on a patchwork line.

Don't worry be happy.

McIntosh was in Miami for 3 years... and in his last two Miami's O-Line was certainly not "woefull". I suppose if you want to - you can call last years injury ravaged unit "patchwork"... as long as you realize that McIntosh was at best, the 3rd OT on the team - and one of the "patches".

Heck, if it makes you and fellow Chiefs fans feel better, go right ahead and pretend you signed Miami's best offensive lineman out from under their nose.... and no one they have left is any good. <---- THAT is why I was posting here... because honestly I could give two farts in a whirlwind about Damion McIntosh.

Miami OT Vernon Carey has had 2 holding penalties, 3 false starts, and allowed 8.5 sacks in the last two seasons. He's 26 years old BTW.

Miami C/G Rex Hadnot had 12 false starts, 1 holding penalty, and has allowed 5 sacks in his first three seasons starting. He's 25 years old BTW.

Miami OT Anthony Alabi has seen only spot duty over the last two seasons, though when replacing Damion McIntosh for 3 quarters of two games last year - his teammates paid him the compliment of saying they didn't notice he had replaced McIntosh during the game: 0 False Starts, 0 Holding Penalties, .5 sacks allowed. He;s 26 years old BTW.

Miami OT Mike Rosenthal is a free agent signee and has never played with the Dolphins. Over an 8 year career covering 58 starts he's had 14 holding penalties, 21 false start penalties, and allowed 22.25 sacks.

Here's the guy some Chiefs fan was making fun of earlier: Miami OT/G LJ Shelton had 2 holding penalties, 2 false starts, and allowed 2 sacks in his only season with Miami. Over an 8 year career (1 year older than McIntosh BTW) he's started 109 games, had 21 false starts, 11 holding penalties, and allowed 38 sacks. ------> That compares to 80 starts for McIntosh, with 29 false starts, 4 holding penalties, and 28 sacks allowed in 29 fewer starts.

Yeah.... no use trying to get a decent O-Lineman from Miami for your broken down 37 year old QB, they don't have any - right Chiefs fans??? Sheesh.

Direckshun
05-16-2007, 10:28 PM
McIntosh was in Miami for 3 years... and in his last two Miami's O-Line was certainly not "woefull". I suppose if you want to - you can call last years injury ravaged unit "patchwork"... as long as you realize that McIntosh was at best, the 3rd OT on the team - and one of the "patches".
So you're admitting that Miami's OL has been patchwork for much of the time McIntosh has played at LT.

The OL is a unit. It's not merely a collection of players. Shifts in personnel during the season, from injury or otherwise, do have a significant affect in how they block, and how well they play. OL depends on chemistry more than any other unit in football, even the best ones.

I don't care if McIntosh was a patch himself. He plugged in, and he played well, on an OL that had proved to be very unstable.
Heck, if it makes you and fellow Chiefs fans feel better, go right ahead and pretend you signed Miami's best offensive lineman out from under their nose.
Find one person anywhere in ChiefsPlanet who's said that.

You're here on false pretenses, my friend.
Miami OT Vernon Carey has had 2 holding penalties, 3 false starts, and allowed 8.5 sacks in the last two seasons. He's 26 years old BTW.
Sounds like a good player -- did he compile those stats at LT, against the best pass rushers on the DL?
Miami C/G Rex Hadnot had 12 false starts, 1 holding penalty, and has allowed 5 sacks in his first three seasons starting. He's 25 years old BTW.
Sounds like a good player -- did he compile those stats at LT?
Miami OT Mike Rosenthal is a free agent signee and has never played with the Dolphins. Over an 8 year career covering 58 starts he's had 14 holding penalties, 21 false start penalties, and allowed 22.25 sacks.
LT?
Here's the guy some Chiefs fan was making fun of earlier: Miami OT/G LJ Shelton had 2 holding penalties, 2 false starts, and allowed 2 sacks in his only season with Miami.
LT?
Yeah.... no use trying to get a decent O-Lineman from Miami for your broken down 37 year old QB.
He's about to be your starter. Congrats.

Ebolapox
05-17-2007, 12:13 AM
So you're admitting that Miami's OL has been patchwork for much of the time McIntosh has played at LT.

The OL is a unit. It's not merely a collection of players. Shifts in personnel during the season, from injury or otherwise, do have a significant affect in how they block, and how well they play. OL depends on chemistry more than any other unit in football, even the best ones.

I don't care if McIntosh was a patch himself. He plugged in, and he played well, on an OL that had proved to be very unstable.

Find one person anywhere in ChiefsPlanet who's said that.

You're here on false pretenses, my friend.

Sounds like a good player -- did he compile those stats at LT, against the best pass rushers on the DL?

Sounds like a good player -- did he compile those stats at LT?

LT?

LT?

He's about to be your starter. Congrats.

game. set. match

pwned, n00b

wockenbauss
05-17-2007, 11:21 AM
So you're admitting that Miami's OL has been patchwork for much of the time McIntosh has played at LT.

Nope. If you insist on calling last years unit "patchwork" thats one out of three (and actually thats 13 starts - but only the majority of 11 games), and if it hadn't been "patchwork" then McIntosh would have ZERO starts for 2006.

The OL is a unit. It's not merely a collection of players. Shifts in personnel during the season, from injury or otherwise, do have a significant affect in how they block, and how well they play. OL depends on chemistry more than any other unit in football, even the best ones.

I agree to a certain extent... and on the other hand I think thats overblown by a lot of people. The best O-Line's certainly have spent a lot of time together... but there is a certain level of performance even a 1st year O-Line should be able to achieve, and if they don't - you can wait from now till the stars burn out, but there still going to be a sh!t O-line. LOL

Miami's O-Line has constantly progressed during the last two seasons (since coach Hudson Houck joined the team). They've been MUCH better units (regardless of injuries) nearer the end of the season, than they have been at the beginning. Houck is considered one of the best O-Line coaches in the league (IMHO he is THE best)... and he's had McIntosh for every year of his career I think except one (coincidentally - or not - that was McIntosh's worst season). Should be interesting to watch Damion next year.

I don't care if McIntosh was a patch himself. He plugged in, and he played well, on an OL that had proved to be very unstable.

He had good pass rush numbers (receiving help from RB's/TE's)... and was just adequate at run blocking. Vernon Carey is a MONSTER in run blocking, had better pass rush numbers than McIntosh... and is 26 years old.

Find one person anywhere in ChiefsPlanet who's said that.

Did you even read THIS THREAD before you started in on me???? Read the following quotes carefully... and tell me exactly what conclusion one could reach afterwards other than those folks think the Chiefs signed Miami's best offensive lineman?????

Quote:Originally Posted by boogblaster
Frick that, Green for a good Olineman would be best ....

Quote:Originally Posted by keg in kc
This is miami you're talking about. They don't have any.

Quote:Originally Posted by MADDOG MIKE
LMFAO.....
You got that straight.....

You're here on false pretenses, my friend.

I was here to call BULLSH!T when it needed to be called, and with your line here... my job is obviously not finished. BULLSH!T!!! ;)

Sounds like a good player -- did he compile those stats at LT, against the best pass rushers on the DL?

Hadnot is C/G not LT... but it's nice to see at least one Chiefs fan admit he "sounds" like a good player... since most seem to think we don't have ANY of those along the O-Line.

Sounds like a good player -- did he compile those stats at LT?

Wow! Twogood players!?!?! Nice! I'm making progress!

Those stats are at RT, though Carey had the LT spot virtually won in 2005 before Saban's 2005 RT free agent Stockar McDougal proved he couldn't block his way out of a paper bag... and once again McIntosh's inability to play anywhere but LT forced a Carey move to cover McDougal.

LT?

No idea. He's a free agent.

LT?

Yes, for every season of his career, except 3/4's of last year... those stats are ALL at LT. If Damion McIntosh can allow only 10 more sacks in his next 29 games... CONGRATULATIONS, because you will just have signed a player who is as good as LJ Shelton at LT (except Shelton is a much bigger and better run blocker). LOL

He's about to be your starter. Congrats.

Not unless someone in the Chiefs front office gets introduced to some form of reality... or you just out and out cut the guy. LOL

game. set. match pwned, n00b

Great! Another illiterate country heard from. ;)