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View Full Version : Who's to blame for the higher gas prices?


Planetman
05-15-2007, 08:31 AM
Apparently, squirrels is, at least, one correct answer.
Refinery Backlogs Push Up Gas Prices
America's Refineries Can't Keep Up With Country's Drivers
May 15, 2007

Drivers across the nation now pay the highest prices ever for gas: on average $3.10 a gallon for regular unleaded gasoline, according to the latest survey by the U.S. government's Energy Information Administration.

So who's to blame?

The problem this year is what's in between crude oil and the consumer: the refineries -- 149 of them across the country turning oil into gasoline.

Already in 2007, a fifth of them have suffered serious breakdowns. (That's about 30 plants! What are they made out of? Duct tape and bailing wire? :spock: ) Everything from fires to equipment failures to, in one case, a squirrel that sabotaged a refinery control room.

To make things worse, the breakdowns coincided with the time-consuming switch over from government-mandated winter to summer fuel, creating a perfect storm according to refinery companies including the Tesoro Corp.

"We're refining more every year. We simply can't keep up with demand growth," said Lynn Westfall, a senior vice president at Tesoro. "Even one refining incident is felt in the marketplace."

Consumer advocate Mark Cooper says refinery executives should have been prepared.

"They are guilty of mismanaging this business," said Cooper, director of research at the Consumer Federation of America. "Predicting demand? Hey that's their job, and it's pretty constant. Having spare capacity so you don't run out? That's their job."

The average refinery shutdown this year was 40 days, according to a report by economic consulting firm PKVerleger LLC.

Why so long when so much is at stake?

"Before you can even get into the units to figure out what's going on, they have to spend several days cooling down, depressurizing, but once you get inside there may be some damage that requires long lead time equipment," Tesoro's Westfall said.

One solution is to make refineries bigger or build new ones, but there are numerous restrictions on oil companies and no one wants a new refinery in their own backyard.

"Most people say we need new refineries, or we could use that extra capacity," said Red Cavaney, president of the American Petroleum Institute. "But then when you go to a specific locale or a specific community and you start to talk about trying to bring that in, people say, 'No, no, no. I don't really want that. I would rather have that produced somewhere else and brought here.'"

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=3175224

Bwana
05-15-2007, 08:33 AM
I'll go with Al Davis.

Archie F. Swin
05-15-2007, 08:44 AM
build a refinery in my backyard....please!! I'll make you a good deal

Hound333
05-15-2007, 08:45 AM
Canada

StcChief
05-15-2007, 08:45 AM
your mom.

oldandslow
05-15-2007, 08:46 AM
Look in the mirror. I will too.

You have your answer.

Kerberos
05-15-2007, 08:46 AM
Who's to blame for the higher gas prices?.

I'll go with DONGER

Radar Chief
05-15-2007, 08:51 AM
I knew it! Freak’n tree rats! :cuss:

Phobia
05-15-2007, 09:11 AM
It turns out it's oldandslow's fault - and some handsome devil who looks just like the fat Brad Pitt.

recxjake
05-15-2007, 09:12 AM
LIBERALS

Phobia
05-15-2007, 09:13 AM
GM!

First in.

Frazod
05-15-2007, 09:17 AM
I'll go with DONGER

I'll bet Donger trained the squirrel.

But somehow its the consumer's fault. :doh!:

Garcia Bronco
05-15-2007, 09:17 AM
It's called price fixing and these energy guys aren't above it....just ask the folks formerly of Enron

Reerun_KC
05-15-2007, 09:43 AM
Americans created this mess, now we have to deal with it....

Sucks but such is life...

StcChief
05-15-2007, 09:46 AM
So who is NOT buying today. May 15th

Baconeater
05-15-2007, 09:50 AM
Dubya.

Reerun_KC
05-15-2007, 09:52 AM
So who is NOT buying today. May 15th
Filled up yesterday so I could shove it to them today...

Does it really matter? So what you dont buy gas today, but you will need it tomorrow or the next day, or the next.....

So what happens then? You pump 42 gallons into your Surburban?

chasedude
05-15-2007, 09:55 AM
Filled up yesterday so I could shove it to them today...

Does it really matter? So what you dont buy gas today, but you will need it tomorrow or the next day, or the next.....

So what happens then? You pump 42 gallons into your Surburban?


Ditto, Those boycotts for a day never work.

KC-TBB
05-15-2007, 09:56 AM
this is ride your bicycle to work week..YEAH RIGHT, the way these crazy f--k's drive around here...I would be dead in 2 blocks...ARGHHH!

wilas101
05-15-2007, 09:56 AM
I think I'm inclined to side with Garcia Bronco here. It's pretty convenient that gas prices (and profits) get higher and higher because all of our refineries start breaking down.

talk about bad karma. I guess we're just an unlucky country. :(

Reerun_KC
05-15-2007, 09:57 AM
this is ride your bicycle to work week..YEAH RIGHT, the way these crazy f--k's drive around here...I would be dead in 2 blocks...ARGHHH!


As fat as I am getting it probably wouldnt hurt to ride my bicycle 25 miles one way to work....

Sure-Oz
05-15-2007, 10:03 AM
I bought last night, cost me $42 to fill up my accord, im going to need a part time job just for gas, i ****in hate driving 20 min to work.

Fly O.T. McWall
05-15-2007, 10:07 AM
BUSH! he lied, people died. :p

Saggysack
05-15-2007, 10:37 AM
Every single one of us. Consumers, producers, politicians, all of us.

FD
05-15-2007, 11:14 AM
Carl

Bowser
05-15-2007, 11:16 AM
Aliens. Illegal and extraterrestrial.

DJJasonp
05-15-2007, 11:21 AM
Here's my problem with this....

Demand doesnt go away when they raise prices...so why is raising prices necessary to offset their lack of production?

We're getting reamed on a daily basis with these bastards....and the seem to be getting away with it.

Duck Dog
05-15-2007, 11:24 AM
If you blame it on the refineries then you must also blame the environmentalists who pushed ridiculously high standards. So ridiculous in fact that no one can afford to build new refineries so we are stuck with what we have.

sd4chiefs
05-15-2007, 11:35 AM
I think I'm inclined to side with Garcia Bronco here. It's pretty convenient that gas prices (and profits) get higher and higher because all of our refineries start breaking down.

talk about bad karma. I guess we're just an unlucky country. :(

Unlucky country? If we all drove around in tiny cars that get 40mpg instead of BIG A$$ SUV's that get 15mpg we would not be paying so much for gas. But I am spoiled. I like my sports car that goes really fast and gets really sh!ty gas mileage. It's going to have to get a lot higher before I trade it in.

plbrdude
05-15-2007, 11:42 AM
big oil has us bent over the barrel and they know it. they have it, we need it, they will charge whatever they want. they know that if they rise the price slowly all we will do is complain and buy.

Kerberos
05-15-2007, 11:48 AM
Whatever happened to blaming the greedy gawdammed Arabs?

OPEC sticks together and raise the price and get richer and richer while american middle class pays for it.

DAMMIT CARL :cuss:

Planetman
05-15-2007, 11:56 AM
american middle class pays for it.
What do the poor folk and the rich folk use instead of gasoline?

BigMeatballDave
05-15-2007, 12:13 PM
I blame politicians. They all got their grubby little hands in the pockets of Big Oil. It is disgusting to me that countries in S. America are so far more advanced than us when it comes to alternative fuels.

Kerberos
05-15-2007, 12:35 PM
What do the poor folk and the rich folk use instead of gasoline?

I look at poor folk as a minority when it comes to driving or owning a vehicle.

To think that poor people don't drive would be dumbassery on my part but there are a whole HELLOFALOTMORE middle class drivers than thier are poor people driving. Thus they pay the majority.

Rich people pay it too but it doesn't hit thier wallets the same way. Yea they still have to pay it but they also have tax attorneys working on the clock figureing out how they can write that shit off of thier taxes. They might pay MORE now but they will get big amounts of it back later.

The theory that the RICH get RICHER and the POOR get POORER (Poor being middle class in this case) make all the sense in the word to me.

BucEyedPea
05-15-2007, 12:41 PM
WW crisis and conflicts are the single greatest cause of sudden spikes in gas prices. That's the war in the ME, Persian Gulf area. Gas prices overall are cheaper over the long term once adjusted for inflation despite increased demand ww and lack of refineries which do contribute.

Oil industry, when faced with instability must ensure they have supplies to remain in business so increases in price are likely in such cases.

Buehler445
05-15-2007, 12:53 PM
If the oil companies are in teh corner of catastrophies making high prices, as opposed to just one opinion, then their Income Statements had better tell the same tale. If sh*t is broken, then it takes a buttload of money to shut it off and fix it. That would be shown on their Income Statements. If this is the line they are going to feed us, then I had better not see their damn names on every business website saying they broke profit records for the 5,460,198,676,510,654,068,540,657,987th quarter in a row.

Radar Chief
05-15-2007, 12:54 PM
WW crisis and conflicts are the single greatest cause of sudden spikes in gas prices. That's the war in the ME, Persian Gulf area. Gas prices overall are cheaper over the long term once adjusted for inflation despite increased demand ww and lack of refineries which do contribute.

Oil industry, when faced with instability must ensure they have supplies to remain in business so increases in price are likely in such cases.

Oh, you’re just covering up for the squirrels.
You’re such a tree hugger. ;)

Eric
05-15-2007, 01:50 PM
How they fix prices and own congress.(owning congress is obvious.)

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff09242005.html

Garcia Bronco
05-15-2007, 04:36 PM
I think I'm inclined to side with Garcia Bronco here. It's pretty convenient that gas prices (and profits) get higher and higher because all of our refineries start breaking down.

talk about bad karma. I guess we're just an unlucky country. :(

It's price fixing at it's finest...the price of gas here in Denver has gone up 33% in 2 months...33%...that's price fixing.

Stewie
05-15-2007, 04:45 PM
The reason for higher gas prices? People willing pay... probably adding to their CC balance. It's the American way. C'mon people spend, spend, spend... borrow, borrow, borrow... spend, spend, spend... borrow, borrow, borrow.... China owns your ass.

Donger
05-23-2007, 12:48 PM
Bump.

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:50 PM
Bump.Well done...

gblowfish
05-23-2007, 12:56 PM
This from yesterday's Phoenix Busniess Journal:

Napolitano wants Congress to investigate gas price hikes
The Business Journal of Phoenix - 2:05 PM MST Tuesday, May 22, 2007

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano has joined 21 other governors in asking for a congressional investigation into the latest spike of gasoline prices.

Gas prices are above $3 per gallon with worries they will continue to rise this summer.

Napolitano and the other governors have written congressional leaders, asking them to investigate price spikes, supply issues and why U.S. refineries have not been expanded or modernized more considering oil companies have reaped record multi-billion-dollar profits.

Other governors asking for the federal inquiry include Charlie Crist, R-Fla.; Bill Richardson, D-N.M.; Jodi Rell, R-Conn.; Jon Corzine, D-N.J.; and Mike Rounds, R-S.D..

Napolitano, a Democrat, has made similar calls during previous gas price spikes and has faulted the Bush administration for not being aggressive enough on the issue.

This latest effort comes, however, after Democrats took control of Congress in January.

Donger
05-23-2007, 12:56 PM
This from yesterday's Phoenix Busniess Journal:

Napolitano wants Congress to investigate gas price hikes
The Business Journal of Phoenix - 2:05 PM MST Tuesday, May 22, 2007

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano has joined 21 other governors in asking for a congressional investigation into the latest spike of gasoline prices.

Gas prices are above $3 per gallon with worries they will continue to rise this summer.

Napolitano and the other governors have written congressional leaders, asking them to investigate price spikes, supply issues and why U.S. refineries have not been expanded or modernized more considering oil companies have reaped record multi-billion-dollar profits.

Other governors asking for the federal inquiry include Charlie Crist, R-Fla.; Bill Richardson, D-N.M.; Jodi Rell, R-Conn.; Jon Corzine, D-N.J.; and Mike Rounds, R-S.D..

Napolitano, a Democrat, has made similar calls during previous gas price spikes and has faulted the Bush administration for not being aggressive enough on the issue.

This latest effort comes, however, after Democrats took control of Congress in January.

Idiots.

gblowfish
05-23-2007, 12:59 PM
The official govt' "pitch a bitch" site is here:

http://gaswatch.energy.gov/

Cochise
05-23-2007, 12:59 PM
They investigate it all the time, and never come up with anything. These companies' books are open, they report earnings like any other company. We have access to data regarding supply and such. Don't people think that if there were some huge conspiracy someone would be blowing the lid off it?

I guess the hundreds of thousands of people working in the oil industry and in government are all working in tight-lipped concert...

gblowfish
05-23-2007, 01:01 PM
Here's a place where everybody whines about gas prices:

http://www.gasgouging.com/

Dartgod
05-23-2007, 01:07 PM
How they fix prices and own congress.(owning congress is obvious.)

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff09242005.html

Alexander Cockburn? ROFL

I'd see a doctor about that if I were you, Alex.

http://www.counterpunch.org/cpheader6.gif

gblowfish
05-23-2007, 01:21 PM
House OKs penalty for gas price gouging

By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press

http://tinyurl.com/32df6r

WASHINGTON - The House, eager to do something about record high gasoline prices in advance of the Memorial Day weekend, voted narrowly Wednesday to approve stiff penalties for those found guilty of gasoline price gouging.

The bill directs the Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department to go after oil companies, traders or retail operators if they take "unfair advantage" or charge "unconscionably excessive" prices for gasoline and other fuels.

The White House called the measure a form of price controls that could result in fuel shortages. It said
President Bush would be urged to veto the legislation should it pass Congress.

The bill needed the approval of two-thirds of the members of the House because the leadership considered it under an expedited legislative process. Thus, the 284-141 vote was only one over the threshold for passage. A similar measure is being considered by the Senate.

The bill would for the first time create a federal law making energy price gouging illegal. It would cover not only gasoline, but also other fuels such as natural gas and heating oil.

Rep. Bart Stupak (news, bio, voting record), D-Mich., its chief sponsor, in urging his colleagues to support the bill said the issue was whether "to side with Big Oil (or) ... side with consumers who are being ripped off at the gas pump."

But Stupak was forced to soften the bill so that he could get it passed by requiring a president to first declare an energy emergency before the anti-gouging law could be enforced. Oil-state Democrats had wanted such limits.

The bill calls for criminal penalties of up to $150 million for corporations and up to $2 million and a jail sentence of up to 10 years for individuals found to be engaged in price gouging.

Opponents said the legislation was too vague and amounts to price controls.

"I don't know what `unconscionable excessive' means," Rep. Joe Barton (news, bio, voting record), R-Texas, complained, referring to a phrase that would trigger a price gouging prosecution.

Barton said today's high gasoline prices are the result of supply and demand and not price gouging. "Demand has gone up and supply has not gone up. ... and the price has gone up," said Barton.

The White House said the administration "strongly opposes" the bill and the president would be urged to veto it if it passes Congress.

It "would harm consumers, the very people the bill is touted to protect," said a White House statement to lawmakers. It said price gouging legislation would amount to "price controls and in some cases bring back long gas lines reminiscent of the 1970s."

Oil company lobbyists have argued that when there are tight markets and rising prices, the vague gouging definition would inhibit refiners and retailers from adding supplies for fear of being taken to court.

"Mom and Pop grocer and gasoline station owners can't wonder what every court is going to decide," said Rep. Roy Blunt (news, bio, voting record), R-Mo., the minority whip. He said the law would create "undue hardship for ... people trying to make a living."

But the bill's supporters argued that states can't combat energy price gouging, leaving motorists at the whim of arbitrary oil company pricing. Twenty-nine states currently have energy price gouging laws, but they vary in detail and under in terms of what conditions would trigger them.

Cochise
05-23-2007, 01:25 PM
That's retarded. First of all, what does "excessive" mean? Exactly what is it, and who decides how much that is?

Secondly, I'd rather have expensive gas than have stations running out. That's no freaking choice at all.