View Full Version : The #2 for Vermeil is a major thorn

04-16-2001, 06:29 PM
I wasn't happy about that decision from the NFL when the whole thing went down, but I had no idea what a problem it would become. With the depth of this draft and the potentially good RB's likely to be available in round 2 I have no doubt the Green trade would have already been completed if we still held the 42nd spot. I was really looking forward to this draft. Now we might not see a selection until the 2nd day.

I'm still not sold that DV will be worth all he cost. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

04-16-2001, 06:33 PM
With therapy and time I have tried to remove the thought from my mind...But as draft day approaches the pain is trying to resurface on me....This is the deepest draft in the past ten years and maybe ever....Needless to say this is the worst year to be fu@ked out of your early 2nd rounder....

Zebedee DuBois
04-16-2001, 06:39 PM
I think we owe them a third next year too. Bummer

04-16-2001, 06:44 PM
I think we all will be glad we paid the money for DV when we see what starts appearing. Horne signing tonight was a big start..:D

No way we will give up #12 pick unless we get our 2nd back. It'll be draft day before we know anything on Green trade. I just read where the had in Drunkenmiller( so I can't spell..lol) for a work out today. They are pulling out all of the punches they can. Heck, he may not be that bad of a deal. At least he went to Canada and XFL to learn how to play better. Humiliation is hard, but maybe in his case it was a good deal?

04-16-2001, 06:44 PM
No one has been more adamant about this than I have. I've been saying from the start that this was a bad trade off, and that CP should have just passed on Tearmeil when Tagliabue's decision came down. Even had hiring Tearmeil not cost us anything, I would not be sold on him as the coach this team needs. Losing those picks just makes it a worse hire.

04-16-2001, 06:49 PM
At the risk of sounding like a broken record......getting rid of the stooges was worth the whole draft. Of that I have no doubts. OTOH, whether we'd have been better off with Marvin Lewis or somebody who could have been hired with no compensation, we may never know. Personally I'd have preferred that scenario. But at least Gun, Raye, Schottenheimer and Stock are gone. We were going NOWHERE as long as they were here. No 2nd round RB or DT could have single-handedly made that kind of difference. JMO.

04-16-2001, 06:50 PM
I just hope we're not seeing Jordan and/or Barlow tearing up the league a few years from now with Vermeil back in retirement. This draft and the qb situation would shake out quite a bit differently had Carl not signed Vermeil. I respect the fact that action was taken after the past 3 seasons, but I question the cost. Where, for instance, would things stand if we'd signed Marvin Lewis as HC?

04-16-2001, 06:52 PM
Or Butch Davis....

Zebedee DuBois
04-16-2001, 06:56 PM
Although I am not happy about losing the picks, I still hold hope that we are better off. If you want an example of a really bad pick trade, you need look no further than the Ryan Leaf. Everyone always talks about how bad it was for San Diego, but Arizona ( the benificiary of the trade (two #1s?)) did not seem to benifit either.

04-17-2001, 06:48 AM
Personally, I was very happy with the hiring of Vermeil, of course, at that time, I thought we had a 7-9 team, that with proper coaching should have been no worse than 10-6. We also had a QB, and some experience at CB. I do believe it could have been handled differently, and while we probably would have at least had to give up a third, maybe both of them that we received for Marty, it could have been done, and the animosity that has been generated, would not have happened. Also, if CP hadn't fooled around with Elvis in negotiations, at least to the point of making an offer, then sitting on his a$$, until a day before the deadline, he would have at least known we needed a QB. Overall, I still think DV is a good coach, but now, is going to have to reshape this team, which might take all 3 years of his promised tenure.

04-17-2001, 07:19 AM
While I wasn't thrilled with the hiring of Vermiel, I do think a change was needed. I'm not looking forward to the teary-eyed press conferences, and the emotional outbursts that will be coming. I do think that any change over our staff last year will be a benefit. If the defense plays with heart, trust, and intensity...if the offense is has vision in play calling...if a team chemistry is born...it may well be worth the loss of the picks.

still stuck in "we'll see" mode...

04-17-2001, 09:15 AM
Cormac already made my point. Just go to his reply and add superfluous words at random and you will have my reply.

Saving bandwidth.

04-17-2001, 09:23 AM
I agree that getting rid of the old coaching staff at any cost makes us a better football team immediately....However, if you are buying a new car and one dealer will sell you the same car for $35,000 that another dealer wants $40,000 for....You have to be a moron to pay the extra 5k on the principle that it is a wise move because the new car is better than the one you replaced....

04-17-2001, 02:11 PM
To add to Cormac's point, no other HC was going to get Carl to make the change and dump Gun and the Stooges. As such I will not regret losing that 2nd rounder for Vermiel, I will just remain pizzed at Taglibue for years to come for giving away our picks for the Rams mistake.

Jl80 I think you missed the point in the analogy you made, and that is you have a personal investment in the dealership where the price is $40k and the only way you are going to give up the old car is if you can give the business to the dealership you have a personal investment as part of your mindset. Unfortunately that personal investment is the only reason Carl got rid of the old car. It was not a choice of who would replace Gun. It was a choice between getting his friend Vermiel or keeping Gun.

04-17-2001, 02:53 PM

Good point. However, a good businessman doesn't let business every become personal...nothing good comes of it...

04-17-2001, 03:15 PM

I have never met a businessman that didn't make an effort to be working with those he enjoyed working with.
I think if you talk to anyone working in the corporate environment, they will confirm that the playing field is never level. I personally would always pick the guy with a little less talent for the benefit of good chemistry.

04-17-2001, 03:23 PM
Big Daddy,

I agree with you about the value of chemistry...But the bottom line is you are making the decision based on the fact that you believe you are making the decision that is best for the business/team...For example if you believe the chemistry and product that comes from DV is more valuable than say a Butch Davis and a 2nd&3rd round pick, then you go with DV....But if the sole reason you are making the decision is due to personal reasons then it is a horrible way to manage a business/team...

04-17-2001, 07:34 PM

I was one who thought Carl should have moved on this season, was hoping he would go to San Diego (most likely would have improved both teams) with Bradaway taking over. Oh well wishes get you nowhere as we all know). But once we were stuck with Carl again my second priority was getting rid of the Stooges and then third was Gun. I gave up on Gun after the anouncement that he was contemplating quitting after the second game of the season.

When Carl was signed for 5 more years I had given up hope on dumping Gun and was only holding out hope that the Stooges would be told to exit stage left. When Gun got Hunts endorsement and we had not dumped one stooge I thought it was hopeless.

So I come at this thing from that perspective which leaves me ecstatic with the best I feel we could get under the circumstances. Does not mean I would not have liked more, but I did not feel that it was at all possible.

So I guess I have just settled.

04-17-2001, 10:31 PM
Nap expresses my thoughts on this far better than I can. I also have serious reservations about whether Tearmeil is the right coach for this team at this time. I don't really have anything to base this on. It's just a gut feeling that I can't shake. I can't explain it. I just think his style is wrong for the team. I also wonder whether he will have the patience to build this team into a real contender. He has already shown his unwillingness to build through time with his Green desires, and with his statement that he doesn't have the time to develop a QB. That statement alone is a bone of contention with me. KC hasn't developed a QB in years. I think it's time we do. But then we get a coach that doesn't have the time to do it.

04-17-2001, 10:34 PM
Well, seems almost a cosmic intervention that we would lose a #2 that would become so important. How often would a 2nd pick be that important for any team? Yet here we are stuck in a stalemate, without a qb, and all this caused by the league deeming that a retired coach with probably not much left to give is worth a 2nd and 3rd pick.

The whole thing gets curioser and curioser.