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View Full Version : Bill Clinton is a brilliant leader


Mr. Laz
05-20-2007, 12:49 PM
just watching C-span yesterday and saw Bill Clinton talking in a town hall-ish at a Potomac school.

reminded me how insightful and thought provoking he is.


his ability to see the big picture and understand how process affect the world is quite good.


"if New York put sod on all the flat tops instead of tar it would save enough energy to be the equivalent of removing 700,000 cars off the road."

simple and effective

just one minor example of the seemingly endless ideas and information he discussed during the question portion of the program.


"Denmark increased their national production by 50% without increasing energy pollution by a single percentage point"


very interesting

go bo
05-20-2007, 01:28 PM
despite his occasional mistakes regarding sex with subordinates...


and occasionaly stretching the truth a little regarding those ill-advised liaisons...

and despite the impeachment...

he was a major player on the international stage...

and still is, in many respects...

mlyonsd
05-20-2007, 01:34 PM
despite his occasional mistakes regarding sex with subordinates...


and occasionaly stretching the truth a little regarding those ill-advised liaisons...

and despite the impeachment...

he was a major player on the international stage...

and still is, in many respects...

I have very little respect for the guy but he is definitely a political rock star. So much I think he'll get Hillary the democratic nomination.

Mr. Laz
05-20-2007, 01:35 PM
I have very little respect for the guy but he is definitely a political rock star. So much I think he'll get Hillary the democratic nomination.
and you respect dubya?

mlyonsd
05-20-2007, 02:02 PM
and you respect dubya?

To be honest I respect him more than Clinton.

Mr. Laz
05-20-2007, 03:09 PM
To be honest I respect him more than Clinton.
says alot about your priorities

Bowser
05-20-2007, 03:13 PM
To be honest I respect him more than Clinton.

Be clear - do you respect Bush more as a president, or for not getting caught getting blown by an intern?

morphius
05-20-2007, 03:17 PM
Clinton is an expert at telling his crowed exactly what they want to hear, and when his ideas fails, he has no issue selling the popular issue as his own, and he isn't above lying every step of the way.

Luckily his quest to be liked really limited his effect on the country.

Bowser
05-20-2007, 03:20 PM
Clinton is an expert at telling his crowed exactly what they want to hear, and when his ideas fails, he has no issue selling the popular issue as his own, and he isn't above lying every step of the way.

Luckily his quest to be liked really limited his effect on the country.

Clinton is a master speaker. After listening to him speak - on whatever the subject may be - you come away thinking that that guy has his shit together.

D2112
05-20-2007, 03:32 PM
Clinton is an expert at telling his crowed exactly what they want to hear, and when his ideas fails, he has no issue selling the popular issue as his own, and he isn't above lying every step of the way.

Luckily his quest to be liked really limited his effect on the country.
Great post,morphius.

Clinton was led around making his decisions based upon the latest CNN/USA today opinion polls..If it was popular,it was his idea.

BTW..he was not a great leader Laz..he was kind of like a used car salesman President..he would tell you what you wanted to hear,and base his decisions on what the popular vote wanted.

Mr. Laz
05-20-2007, 03:33 PM
Great post,morphius.

Clinton was led around making his decisions based upon the latest CNN/USA today opinion polls..If it was popular,it was his idea.

BTW..he was not a great leader Laz..he was kind of like a used car salesman President..he would tell you what you wanted to hear,and base his decisions on it what the popular vote wanted.
hey,hey billy boy

:)

Bowser
05-20-2007, 03:34 PM
Great post,morphius.

Clinton was led around making his decisions based upon the latest CNN/USA today opinion polls..If it was popular,it was his idea.

BTW..he was not a great leader Laz..he was kind of like a used car salesman President..he would tell you what you wanted to hear,and base his decisions on what the popular vote wanted.

You mean he actually listened to the people that elected him? What an insane idea!

D2112
05-20-2007, 03:35 PM
hey,hey billy boy

:)
ROFL

I knew you would be hovering around this thread waiting to pounce!

It took you 30 seconds. :eek:

D2112
05-20-2007, 03:36 PM
You mean he actually listened to the people that elected him? What an insane idea!
Sometimes the right decisions aren't going to be popular,and if thats what a President should do,why don't the candidates say that when they're campaigning?

Mr. Laz
05-20-2007, 03:37 PM
ROFL

I knew you would be hovering around this thread waiting to pounce!

It took you 30 seconds. :eek:
like a tiger


http://www.dynamic3.co.uk/images/tiger-1.jpg

Bowser
05-20-2007, 03:37 PM
Sometimes the right decisions aren't going to be popular,and if thats what a President should do,why don't the candidates say that when they're campaigning?

Because I'm guessing they actually WANT to be president. Heh.

Saggysack
05-20-2007, 03:39 PM
You mean he actually listened to the people that elected him? What an insane idea!

ROFL

Constituents? We don't need no stinkin constituents!

mlyonsd
05-20-2007, 06:26 PM
says alot about your priorities

I think you need to look up the definition of respect. Mine deals more with morals than priorities.

mlyonsd
05-20-2007, 06:36 PM
Be clear - do you respect Bush more as a president, or for not getting caught getting blown by an intern?

Respect goes more to character in my book. Lying to his wife, the American public, and committing perjury makes me wonder how anyone could "respect" him.

Comparing Clinton to Bush as far as their presidency's go is apples and oranges. To not see that is just plain silly.

Mr. Laz
05-20-2007, 06:51 PM
Respect goes more to character in my book. Lying to his wife, the American public, and committing perjury makes me wonder how anyone could "respect" him.

Bush doesn't lie at all

stevieray
05-20-2007, 08:00 PM
Bush doesn't lie at all


thread over. it has served it's true purpose.

bkkcoh
05-20-2007, 08:05 PM
"if New York put sod on all the flat tops instead of tar it would save enough energy to be the equivalent of removing 700,000 cars off the road."

simple and effective


But algore would be upset because of all of the lawn mowers that would be required in order to cut the grass. Afterall, the gasoline engine is going to be the demise of the universe.

morphius
05-20-2007, 08:10 PM
You mean he actually listened to the people that elected him? What an insane idea!
Actually, no. He spoke to whomever he was speaking to, one day he would talk to one group, tell them one thing, then turn around and tell another group something completely different.

Great Speaker != Great Leader

'Hamas' Jenkins
05-20-2007, 08:26 PM
Actually, no. He spoke to whomever he was speaking to, one day he would talk to one group, tell them one thing, then turn around and tell another group something completely different.

Great Speaker != Great Leader

Like this guy did in 1999, when speaking about Kosovo?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Great point.

go bo
05-20-2007, 08:37 PM
I have very little respect for the guy but he is definitely a political rock star. So much I think he'll get Hillary the democratic nomination.i hope not...

imo obama, with no real experience in foreign affairs, will still make a better president than hillary...

the more i see of rudy the more i don't want him as president...

mccain has lost me too...

we don't need more of the same in iraq...

new leadership (barack hussein obama in particular) has more hope of changing the president's disastrous policies...

in fact, it looks to me that it's going to take someone special to extricate us from this generation's vietnam...

i'm hoping my guy hussein osama bin obama can get us pointed in the right direction again...

long live barak hussein~!~!

long live hussein obama~!~!

long live america... *waving flag overhead*

unlurking
05-20-2007, 08:44 PM
Like this guy did in 1999, when speaking about Kosovo?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Great point.
That would make a great sig

Easy 6
05-20-2007, 08:48 PM
To get on here & lambaste Clinton, all the while poo-pooing W's dirty deeds is Hi-Larry-ous.

I frankly have little time for ANY of them anymore, the whole lot of'em should be banished. But the one-siders here (in this case, Repubs) who simply CANNOT find serious fault with "their" guy, just arent looking & refuse to do so.

If this place is truly a good cross-section of American thought, then its NO FOCKING WONDER Washington is such a useless mess.

Disgusting.

Logical
05-20-2007, 09:33 PM
I think you need to look up the definition of respect. Mine deals more with morals than priorities.That is sort of sad, I can understand that if that is what you want in a policeman but not a President. I don't respect Clinton for his morals and I hate that he lied under oath but I would still vote for him 10 times before I would vote for GW even one more time.

Ugly Duck
05-20-2007, 10:23 PM
Clinton is a master speaker. After listening to him speak - on whatever the subject may be - you come away thinking that that guy has his shit together.

He's smart, too! Working on a gig to get him back in charge at the White House by pretending that his wife is running things. Much like Cheney & Rove pretend that Bush Jr is running things. We could have two pretend presidents in a row!

Ugly Duck
05-20-2007, 10:25 PM
Like this guy did in 1999, when speaking about Kosovo?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)



Maybe that doesn't apply anymore in a post-9/11 world?

Bowser
05-20-2007, 10:28 PM
Respect goes more to character in my book. Lying to his wife, the American public, and committing perjury makes me wonder how anyone could "respect" him.

Comparing Clinton to Bush as far as their presidency's go is apples and oranges. To not see that is just plain silly.

Thanks for the answer.

IMHO, his problems with his wife and his personal image are his business, not mine. He made that bed, etc. etc. I'm more interested in how the country ran under his watch, and how that directly effected my life.

I won't sit here and defend Clinton from a moral standpoint, nor do I defend or condone his actions, but I don't think it's our job to judge him without knowing him and his wife. She decided to stick with him after the whole Monica ordeal, so why should any of us harbor such outrage? Maybe that's their realationship? Who knows and who cares.

And maybe I'm wrong, but the whole lying to the public about his personal life really never bothered me. Maybe I'm strange like that.

morphius
05-20-2007, 10:39 PM
Like this guy did in 1999, when speaking about Kosovo?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Great point.
Did I say GW was a great leader?

I figure he is payback for the Clinton years...

go bo
05-20-2007, 11:14 PM
To get on here & lambaste Clinton, all the while poo-pooing W's dirty deeds is Hi-Larry-ous.

I frankly have little time for ANY of them anymore, the whole lot of'em should be banished. But the one-siders here (in this case, Repubs) who simply CANNOT find serious fault with "their" guy, just arent looking & refuse to do so.

If this place is truly a good cross-section of American thought, then its NO FOCKING WONDER Washington is such a useless mess.

Disgusting.a good cross section of american thought?

people actually think around here?

i thought this was an automated bb... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

go bo
05-20-2007, 11:16 PM
Respect goes more to character in my book. Lying to his wife, the American public, and committing perjury makes me wonder how anyone could "respect" him.

Comparing Clinton to Bush as far as their presidency's go is apples and oranges. To not see that is just plain silly.silly?

now i'm silly...

great...

actually i like being silly from time to time...

good for morale and all that...

BucEyedPea
05-20-2007, 11:24 PM
Like this guy did in 1999, when speaking about Kosovo?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Great point.

If we don’t stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, we’re going to have a serious problem coming down the road.
– George W. Bush

ClevelandBronco
05-20-2007, 11:44 PM
Like this guy did in 1999, when speaking about Kosovo?

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)

Great point.

You've already heard the exit strategy in Iraq. What you're asking for is a timetable for the exit strategy, which is impossible to know.

Let's put it in easier to understand terms...

Here's my exit strategy for my investment real estate: I'll continue to hold the properties in my portfolio until the value of those properties warrants putting them up for sale and converting my equity into more valuable properties.

Here's my timetable: The conditions above will be met by August 2008 or I will abandon the properties and lose all my equity.

That would be a ridiculous investment strategy and it's equally preposterous for you guys to embrace it as a war strategy.

You guys act as if you're merely asking for what's already been explained to you time after time. I'm sorry it hasn't sunk in yet, but you've been given the exit strategy.

What you haven't been given is a date. And you're not going to get one for obvious reasons.

Logical
05-21-2007, 12:13 AM
If we don’t stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, we’re going to have a serious problem coming down the road.
– George W. Bush

Possibly the most intelligent thing he has ever said publicly. Too bad he does not follow his own statements.

Fishpicker
05-21-2007, 03:48 AM
this video is kinda cheesy but it shows some politicians acting bizarre.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KF6Ee08TXaQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KF6Ee08TXaQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Clinton admits that such a thing is possible

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cTiONdJJRcw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cTiONdJJRcw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Clinton's response to the UN conspiracy theory: "We're better off"

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BJ05vt7iURE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BJ05vt7iURE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Baby Lee
05-21-2007, 08:17 AM
Actually, no. He spoke to whomever he was speaking to, one day he would talk to one group, tell them one thing, then turn around and tell another group something completely different.

Great Speaker != Great Leader
Funny bit of history, recounted recently by way of Master Tape Theater [replays of 'classic' Howard Stern from years past on Sirius].

It was a broadcast from like early 1994, and Robin was doing the news. Apparently, the Clintons went to Cape Canaveral to see a shuttle launch, and the two of them gave short speeches.

Big Bill recounted how, just a little while back, he and Hill were discussing the places they absolutely had to see during his presidency, and would you believe? at the absolute top of their list? no question? . . . Cape Canaveral.

Then Hill gave her speech wherein, it had been her childhood dream to be an astronaut, which she had pursued fervently until it became clear to her that NASA was not ready for a woman astronaut.

And there it is, that trademark innocuous, could be true, could be false, sounds a little too pat, but you can't verify or debunk, anecdote that makes the occasion all about them and gave subtle nudges to political heuristics they want in everyone's mind.

It's not a d@mnable offense, just a source of irritation for people who see it nakedly employed, kind of like that guy who's otherwise pleasant who nevertheless skeeves you out with his leacherous stare.

Chief Faithful
05-21-2007, 10:58 AM
Funny bit of history, recounted recently by way of Master Tape Theater [replays of 'classic' Howard Stern from years past on Sirius].

It was a broadcast from like early 1994, and Robin was doing the news. Apparently, the Clintons went to Cape Canaveral to see a shuttle launch, and the two of them gave short speeches.

Big Bill recounted how, just a little while back, he and Hill were discussing the places they absolutely had to see during his presidency, and would you believe? at the absolute top of their list? no question? . . . Cape Canaveral.

Then Hill gave her speech wherein, it had been her childhood dream to be an astronaut, which she had pursued fervently until it became clear to her that NASA was not ready for a woman astronaut.

And there it is, that trademark innocuous, could be true, could be false, sounds a little too pat, but you can't verify or debunk, anecdote that makes the occasion all about them and gave subtle nudges to political heuristics they want in everyone's mind.

It's not a d@mnable offense, just a source of irritation for people who see it nakedly employed, kind of like that guy who's otherwise pleasant who nevertheless skeeves you out with his leacherous stare.

Such a good example and I love Hill playing the victim in their anecdote.

Mr. Laz
05-21-2007, 11:05 AM
thread over. it has served it's true purpose.
not even close


i was merely impressed with Bill Clinton's speaking ability



i should of probably titled the thread "... brilliant speaker" instead of leader.

But :shrug:

ROYC75
05-21-2007, 11:06 AM
Bill Clinton is a brilliant peter eater


Fixed your post and thread header..........

Chief Faithful
05-21-2007, 11:07 AM
That is sort of sad, I can understand that if that is what you want in a policeman but not a President. I don't respect Clinton for his morals and I hate that he lied under oath but I would still vote for him 10 times before I would vote for GW even one more time.

You have raised my curiosity, in what scenario would you vote for a Republican in 08?

I'm under the impression it does not matter the candidate or the challenger you would vote Dem.

StcChief
05-21-2007, 12:00 PM
Billie Jeff, Slick Willie, impeached lying scumbag.
His policies lead to Internet economy issues and
9/11.

Can you name 1 thing he did. and 'Don't ask Don't tell' doesn't count.

Frankie
05-21-2007, 01:54 PM
Sometimes the right decisions aren't going to be popular,and if thats what a President should do,why don't the candidates say that when they're campaigning?
That theory may hold true once or twice in a presidency. But to keep stubbornly f#*%ing up (and on diverse issues to boot) is pretty bad.

Radar Chief
05-21-2007, 01:57 PM
Billie Jeff, Slick Willie, impeached lying scumbag.
His policies lead to Internet economy issues and
9/11.

Can you name 1 thing he did. and 'Don't ask Don't tell' doesn't count.

Welfare reform.

But beyond that, about all he did was diddle chubby interns, then get disbarred for perjury.

Logical
05-21-2007, 02:00 PM
You have raised my curiosity, in what scenario would you vote for a Republican in 08?

I'm under the impression it does not matter the candidate or the challenger you would vote Dem.You are definitely wrong, it is highly unlikely I will vote Dem because I am not likely willing to vote for Hillary. Any Republican who would commit to getting us out of Iraq and has views on the morality issues like Giuliani could get my vote. Otherwise I am likely to be voting for the Libertarian candidate as a protest vote.

Direckshun
05-21-2007, 02:01 PM
I am no fan of Clinton, even though I dislike him a little less than any other President in the modern era.

But I am of the opinion that we have seen nothing but awful Presidents since Truman.

Radar Chief
05-21-2007, 02:09 PM
I am no fan of Clinton, even though I dislike him a little less than any other President in the modern era.

But I am of the opinion that we have seen nothing but awful Presidents since Truman.

Professor Terguson: “You remember that thing we had about 30 years ago called the Korean conflict? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn’t cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China? Then take the fugg’n wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the fugging stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? Say it! Say it!

Thornton Melon: “All right. I’ll say it. ‘Cause Truman was too much of a pussy wimp to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!”

Direckshun
05-21-2007, 02:10 PM
Professor Terguson: “You remember that thing we had about 30 years ago called the Korean conflict? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn’t cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China? Then take the fugg’n wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the fugging stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? Say it! Say it!

Thornton Melon: “All right. I’ll say it. ‘Cause Truman was too much of a pussy wimp to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!”
****ing Truman. :shake:

Baby Lee
05-21-2007, 02:13 PM
Professor Terguson: “You remember that thing we had about 30 years ago called the Korean conflict? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn’t cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China? Then take the fugg’n wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the fugging stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? Say it! Say it!

Thornton Melon: “All right. I’ll say it. ‘Cause Truman was too much of a pussy wimp to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those Commie bastards!”
Is she right? 'Cause I know that's the *popular* version of what went on there. And a lot of people like to believe that. I wish I could, but I was *there*. I wasn't here in a class room, hoping I was right, thinking about it.

I was up to my knees in rice paddies, with guns that didn't work! Going in there, looking for Charlie, slugging it out with him; While pussies like you were back here partying, putting headbands on, doing drugs, and listening to the goddamn Beatle albums! Oh! Oh! Oh!

Chief Faithful
05-21-2007, 02:18 PM
You are definitely wrong, it is highly unlikely I will vote Dem because I am not likely willing to vote for Hillary. Any Republican who would commit to getting us out of Iraq and has views on the morality issues like Giuliani could get my vote. Otherwise I am likely to be voting for the Libertarian candidate as a protest vote.

I'll be voting Libertarian as long as he is a Libertarian. I'm hoping it comes down to Giuliani and Hillary in the major parties. The entertainment value would be outstanding.

Radar Chief
05-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Is she right? 'Cause I know that's the *popular* version of what went on there. And a lot of people like to believe that. I wish I could, but I was *there*. I wasn't here in a class room, hoping I was right, thinking about it.

I was up to my knees in rice paddies, with guns that didn't work! Going in there, looking for Charlie, slugging it out with him; While pussies like you were back here partying, putting headbands on, doing drugs, and listening to the goddamn Beatle albums! Oh! Oh! Oh!

:LOL: I miss Sam.

mlyonsd
05-21-2007, 04:48 PM
That is sort of sad, I can understand that if that is what you want in a policeman but not a President. I don't respect Clinton for his morals and I hate that he lied under oath but I would still vote for him 10 times before I would vote for GW even one more time.

I appreciate your concern in the criteria I use to decide who I respect. I'm glad people like you are watching out for me. If it's OK with you I'll start running people's names past you before I make up my mind on their character so you can relay your moral authority back to me. That way I won't make this mistake again.

Now if you'd solve another problem for me...I'm trying to decide what's for supper. I'm thinking pizza but won't act until you tell me what I should have.

mlyonsd
05-21-2007, 04:53 PM
Thanks for the answer.

IMHO, his problems with his wife and his personal image are his business, not mine. He made that bed, etc. etc. I'm more interested in how the country ran under his watch, and how that directly effected my life.

I won't sit here and defend Clinton from a moral standpoint, nor do I defend or condone his actions, but I don't think it's our job to judge him without knowing him and his wife. She decided to stick with him after the whole Monica ordeal, so why should any of us harbor such outrage? Maybe that's their realationship? Who knows and who cares.

And maybe I'm wrong, but the whole lying to the public about his personal life really never bothered me. Maybe I'm strange like that.

My biggest problem was not the reason he lied, but the fact as president he would lie under oath. Everyone knew he was banging everything in the WH so he didn't need to commit perjury. It was such a stupid thing to lie about. My thinking is if he'd lie about something as silly as sex he'd certainly lie when it came to anything.

Not something I'm likely to respect.

mlyonsd
05-21-2007, 04:55 PM
i hope not...

imo obama, with no real experience in foreign affairs, will still make a better president than hillary...

the more i see of rudy the more i don't want him as president...

mccain has lost me too...

we don't need more of the same in iraq...

new leadership (barack hussein obama in particular) has more hope of changing the president's disastrous policies...

in fact, it looks to me that it's going to take someone special to extricate us from this generation's vietnam...

i'm hoping my guy hussein osama bin obama can get us pointed in the right direction again...

long live barak hussein~!~!

long live hussein obama~!~!

long live america... *waving flag overhead*

yea, yea, no surprise you'd go for the coke head. :p

Messier
05-21-2007, 05:05 PM
Speaking strictly about not so much intelligence as speaking ability and how to form ideas into coherent words, Clinton is miles ahead of Bush. But then so is practically every other politician. I too saw that c-span lecture, and as I was watching I thought to myself, there is no way in a million years Bush could speak so comfortably off the cuff like this.

I'll bet after Bushes term is over we won't see him much in venues that aren't scripted and rehearsed. He might do the occasional sit down with Larry King, but he won't enter the lecture circuit. Again, I'm not sure what this says about Bush but my gut feeling is he's not the brightest bulb.

JohnnyV13
05-21-2007, 08:49 PM
Not only did Clinton govern by focus group, what I could not stand about him is how he dropped bombs on people every time he had a public hearing or some kind of legal event during the monica scandal.

That behavior was totally despicable. While I suspect those attacks had valid purpose, the timing of them to match embarassing appearances and the number of times they "serendipitously" occurred were simply too convenient to be accidents.

Certainly, Clinton had many accomplishments as president (GAT, NAFTA and reforming Welfare), however the driving force behind his popularity was the economy and balancing the budget. Clinton did absolutely nothing to bring them about. Outside economic forces and the tech boom were the real causes. Of course, Clinton did not RUIN the economic boom, so he must at least get that much credit in that area.

JohnnyV13
05-21-2007, 08:52 PM
What DID bother me about the Monica scandal is geez, if the dude is president why is he messing with an air head cow like Monica? I mean geez, if my president is going to have an affair, he could at least have the decorum to shag Marilyn Monroe.

Logical
05-21-2007, 09:03 PM
I appreciate your concern in the criteria I use to decide who I respect. I'm glad people like you are watching out for me. If it's OK with you I'll start running people's names past you before I make up my mind on their character so you can relay your moral authority back to me. That way I won't make this mistake again.

Now if you'd solve another problem for me...I'm trying to decide what's for supper. I'm thinking pizza but won't act until you tell me what I should have.

You want to have BBQ Chicken Pizza, preferably from California Pizza Kitchen. Frozen will do if you don't have a franchise close by.

patteeu
05-21-2007, 09:34 PM
Speaking strictly about not so much intelligence as speaking ability and how to form ideas into coherent words, Clinton is miles ahead of Bush. But then so is practically every other politician. I too saw that c-span lecture, and as I was watching I thought to myself, there is no way in a million years Bush could speak so comfortably off the cuff like this.

I'll bet after Bushes term is over we won't see him much in venues that aren't scripted and rehearsed. He might do the occasional sit down with Larry King, but he won't enter the lecture circuit. Again, I'm not sure what this says about Bush but my gut feeling is he's not the brightest bulb.

Bush is a much better speaker than people give him credit for being. It's true that he isn't nearly as good off the cuff as Clinton, but he has had several very good scripted speeches and I think he's actually pretty good in less formal settings like conversations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the lecture circuit after he leaves office. If he isn't, it will be more a result of his lack of popularity or his lack of interest than a result of his speaking skills, IMO.

Messier
05-22-2007, 05:56 AM
Bush is a much better speaker than people give him credit for being. It's true that he isn't nearly as good off the cuff as Clinton, but he has had several very good scripted speeches and I think he's actually pretty good in less formal settings like conversations.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the lecture circuit after he leaves office. If he isn't, it will be more a result of his lack of popularity or his lack of interest than a result of his speaking skills, IMO.


I could be totally wrong, and I probably am, but Bush just comes across as someone who's been briefed on whatever topic he's talking about and been told what conclusion to draw, where Clinton seems to have done his own research an drawn his own conclusion. Now, they probably were both briefed and given the same information, but when Clinton seems to come at it with details and facts where Bush seems to speak in broad sweeping generalities.

Radar Chief
05-22-2007, 07:53 AM
What DID bother me about the Monica scandal is geez, if the dude is president why is he messing with an air head cow like Monica? I mean geez, if my president is going to have an affair, he could at least have the decorum to shag Marilyn Monroe.

:hmmm: (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=578&p=2)

Bill and Belinda’s excellent adventure

But Clinton’s new, er, friendship isn’t helping his wife’s presidential aims,

tiptap
05-22-2007, 08:05 AM
Not only did Clinton govern by focus group, what I could not stand about him is how he dropped bombs on people every time he had a public hearing or some kind of legal event during the monica scandal.

That behavior was totally despicable. While I suspect those attacks had valid purpose, the timing of them to match embarassing appearances and the number of times they "serendipitously" occurred were simply too convenient to be accidents.

Certainly, Clinton had many accomplishments as president (GAT, NAFTA and reforming Welfare), however the driving force behind his popularity was the economy and balancing the budget. Clinton did absolutely nothing to bring them about. Outside economic forces and the tech boom were the real causes. Of course, Clinton did not RUIN the economic boom, so he must at least get that much credit in that area.

The expediture by the government was in line with revenues. Whether the economy in general was driven by tech boom or not doesn't change that the government was fiscally reponsible. I would add that the tech boom came later in the administration. That the real value of the government's input to the economy was a reduction in borrowing and freeing up that much more capital for private investment.

chagrin
05-22-2007, 08:13 AM
just watching C-span yesterday and saw Bill Clinton talking in a town hall-ish at a Potomac school.

reminded me how insightful and thought provoking he is.


his ability to see the big picture and understand how process affect the world is quite good.


"if New York put sod on all the flat tops instead of tar it would save enough energy to be the equivalent of removing 700,000 cars off the road."
very interesting


I also heard he had an idea for ketchup and mustard in the same bottle.

Orlandochiefsgrl
05-22-2007, 08:28 AM
just watching C-span yesterday and saw Bill Clinton talking in a town hall-ish at a Potomac school.

reminded me how insightful and thought provoking he is.


his ability to see the big picture and understand how process affect the world is quite good.


"if New York put sod on all the flat tops instead of tar it would save enough energy to be the equivalent of removing 700,000 cars off the road."




Getting rid of all the illegal alliens would be equivalent to removing 20 million people. Think of all the energy they use up in this country. Gas prises would drop, energy prises would drop, and there would be a lot less traffic! :clap:

Bowser
05-22-2007, 08:41 AM
Getting rid of all the illegal alliens would be equivalent to removing 20 million people. Think of all the energy they use up in this country. Gas prises would drop, energy prises would drop, and there would be a lot less traffic! :clap:

Sounds good to me.

bkkcoh
05-22-2007, 08:51 AM
If Clinton keeps it up, he will rival Chuck Norris......

mlyonsd
05-22-2007, 06:01 PM
You want to have BBQ Chicken Pizza, preferably from California Pizza Kitchen. Frozen will do if you don't have a franchise close by.

Thanks. Since this is at least the second, maybe third time I've seen you post about this particular California BBQ Chicken Pizza I'll take your advice and try it if I get the chance.

I was in the grocery store the other day looking at frozen pizza and noticed some brand saying they were from California. If it's the same brand I'll try it.

Although I'm ont afraid to admit I'm quite square (Type A) that wonders if BBQ, or even chicken belongs on a pizza. Might be a midwest thing.

Baby Lee
05-22-2007, 06:07 PM
Thanks. Since this is at least the second, maybe third time I've seen you post about this particular California BBQ Chicken Pizza I'll take your advice and try it if I get the chance.

I was in the grocery store the other day looking at frozen pizza and noticed some brand saying they were from California. If it's the same brand I'll try it.

Although I'm ont afraid to admit I'm quite square (Type A) that wonders if BBQ, or even chicken belongs on a pizza. Might be a midwest thing.
CPK BBQ chicken pizza is my personal favorite, best 'frozen' pizza out there. It has a sweet/hot BBQ sauce instead of Marinara, chicken breast, red onion, and a mix of smoked gouda and mozzarell. Even the crust is quality, kind of a chewy/crusty artisan bread.

mlyonsd
05-22-2007, 06:19 PM
CPK BBQ chicken pizza is my personal favorite, best 'frozen' pizza out there. It has a sweet/hot BBQ sauce instead of Marinara, chicken breast, red onion, and a mix of smoked gouda and mozzarell. Even the crust is quality, kind of a chewy/crusty artisan bread.

I went to your profile to see where you are located but all I could find was "Magic Caucasian".

Since you said it was the best 'frozen' out there can you tell me what grocery store line you find it in?

Baby Lee
05-22-2007, 06:38 PM
I went to your profile to see where you are located but all I could find was "Magic Caucasian".

Since you said it was the best 'frozen' out there can you tell me what grocery store line you find it in?
Actually, I'm 3/8 Celtic, 3/8 Cherokee, and 1/4 Kraut.

regarding the Q@hand, you can choose from a delightful array of Schnucks, Shop'n'Saves, and Dierbergs in the lovely St. Louis metro area.
Not a lot of grocery competition in Big Derrty.

mlyonsd
05-22-2007, 06:51 PM
Actually, I'm 3/8 Celtic, 3/8 Cherokee, and 1/4 Kraut.There are waaayyy too many one liners to choose from so I'll just step away.
regarding the Q@hand, you can choose from a delightful array of Schnucks, Shop'n'Saves, and Dierbergs in the lovely St. Louis metro area.
Not a lot of grocery competition in Big Derrty.First, I'm sorry you live in St. Louis. When I piss in the Missouri River from now on I'll just chuckle thinking it's going into your drinking water.

Second, we have none of those chains around here since most goods still come by covered wagon. I'll remember 'CPK' the next time I'm at the store and see if I can find it.

Serious though, thanks for the info. We're always looking for good pizza.

go bo
05-22-2007, 11:12 PM
There are waaayyy too many one liners to choose from so I'll just step away.First, I'm sorry you live in St. Louis. When I piss in the Missouri River from now on I'll just chuckle thinking it's going into your drinking water.

Second, we have none of those chains around here since most goods still come by covered wagon. I'll remember 'CPK' the next time I'm at the store and see if I can find it.

Serious though, thanks for the info. We're always looking for good pizza.covered wagon?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

i didn't know that you could be that funny...

that was a very good quip...

and now i'm in trouble because i woke up the wife laughing so hard...

you should put a not-safe-past-bedtime warning on this thread...

nspb, has a ring to it, don't you think?

FishingRod
05-23-2007, 03:25 PM
You know it is really kind of funny. I got pissed at Bush Sr. Because I thought the implementation of the no Fly Zones in Iraq was a political ploy that was putting people lives at stake for his political well being. I then got pissed at Clinton for shooting missiles into Afghanistan about 5 minutes after apologizing to the American people for the whole BJ isn't sex thing. Again figuring that this was nothing more than a distraction tactic. Then by the time Dubya came around and had Powell put forth the case of both Iraq and Afghanistan being worthy of our intervention I decided it must really have been true. In retrospect we still did have for both countries, as much or more reason to put troops on the ground as many of our previous police actions.

Now back to the topic at hand. Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were each magnanimous public speakers. Both of which presided over an extended period of perceived economic well being. Both were very different but shrewd politicians. I think what this really says is that the world and the economy probably shape the president and their legacy for more than the president shapes the country and the world.

patteeu
05-23-2007, 06:46 PM
I think what this really says is that the world and the economy probably shape the president and their legacy for more than the president shapes the country and the world.

I think there's a lot of truth to that.

BucEyedPea
05-23-2007, 10:01 PM
I think what this really says is that the world and the economy probably shape the president and their legacy for more than the president shapes the country and the world.

I know, it's like the people think a president is a freakin' Moses.
Especially when we have two other branches.

JohnnyV13
05-25-2007, 03:35 AM
The expediture by the government was in line with revenues. Whether the economy in general was driven by tech boom or not doesn't change that the government was fiscally reponsible. I would add that the tech boom came later in the administration. That the real value of the government's input to the economy was a reduction in borrowing and freeing up that much more capital for private investment.


Tip, that's the "kool aid" the Clinton administration tried to sell to take credit for balancing the budget and the burgeoning economy. The fact is, its really a riduculous assertion.

The national debt is financed by selling 30 year T bills on the international market (to a large degree). Think about this for a moment. If I remember correctly, the budget became balanced in 97 or 98. I believe it was 97.

The first year after this, the amount of capital freed would be one year's deficit plus the debt service for 1/30 of the national debt. That amount is a PINDROP compared to the utter torrent of capital investment from foreign sources flooding into the US at the time.

This deluge of capital came to this country for a number of reasons, many of them simply due to odd historical circumstances beyond anyone's control. One big reason was the collapse of the japanese stock market in the early 90's. With western europe in the throes of "stagflation" (very low grown averaging slightly over 1% annual GDP growth for over 2 decades), Japan in a recession and China's still primitive economy, there simply wasn't any place else for capital to go but the US economy who was starting to see huge worker effeciency gains from businesses learning how to really exploit the advantages of the micro computer. (stripping away management layers in the early 90's).

At this point, net technology appeared, which was ANOTHER technology that was a quantum leap in business efficiency. Early on, this new tech provided more HOPE than it did true benefits, but this positive bulge hit right AFTER another transforming tech (the micro) had started to show its benefits. This reality combined with the US being the only real growing ecomony with a stable government, created the circumstances that caused capital to flood into the US market.

Note: any tech that generally transforms industry takes about 10 years to really implement. Initially you will actually see DECREASES in work efficiency as business learn to use the new tech, after about 10 years you will see steady large gains in worker efficiency. This pattern has been repeated from the invention of the steam engine, then electricity, then to computers then to net tech.

None of these circumstances were under Clinton's control. In clinton's budgets, he actually forecast deficits, except the economy boom far outstripped the projections, causing a balanced budget that the administration hardly planned.

In fact, in the mid 90's clinton called republican outcry for a "balanced budget amendment" a "irresponsible" request. While clinton was correct in this assessment, (the government DOES need to go into debt at times, and I don't trust amendments to be flexible enough to address these circumstances), it does show that clinton did not PLAN on a balanced budget. If anything, it occured despite his intent.