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sandman
04-17-2001, 04:58 PM
I know you guys have put up with a lot from my fellow Rams fans so far, so I'll tell you right now that I'm also a Chiefs fan (before the Rams moved to St. Louis, the Chiefs were my favorite team). That being said, I thought I'd give you guys an idea of the Rams players you have gone (or might go) after:

Trent Green:

Green is a solid NFL quarterback. He will win games with his head and leadership abilities more than with physical abilities. Last year, he was quite mobile, even with the knee. Against the Giants, he ran for 54 yards on 9 carries, with a TD, and he averaged four yds per carry overall; the knee won't be a problem. He has some problems with the deep ball and holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but he's excellent at the intermediate and short-range passes. He's a guy that you really can't go wrong with, b/c he's such a good guy and team leader.

Taje Allen:

The Rams always liked his potential and that's why they kept playing him. He has the physical skills, as far as speed and agility, but just doesn't seem to have a football instinct. He very seldom made plays on the ball and was more of a tackler than anything; gets beat deep too much too. As for special teams, he's solid, but not anything spectacular.

Tony Horne:

There was a time when the Rams thought this guy would be a really good receiver for them. He always was a good kick returner (never returned punts), but sometimes got a little hesitant when the blocking wasn't there. Has the speed to break any kick return, but sometimes fails to hit the hole quick enough. His speed gives him the potential to be a good receiver, but he needs more discipline, as he drops too many balls and is lackadaisical on his routes.

HC_Chief
04-17-2001, 05:12 PM
Thanks for the info! :D

Logical
04-17-2001, 07:19 PM
Sandman,

Welcome to our humble BB, we actually are quite comfortable with fans for other teams, Milehigh Mania, Hawaiian Boy, Joe Seahawk, and various others. Being a fan of another team does not make you a troll and we realize that, we enjoy reasonable smaq and the occasional passionate debate on football topics or off.

So once again welcome.

Nice post by the way.

Warrior5
04-17-2001, 07:26 PM
Thanks for the observations...it's good to see a Rams fan with class (unlike on TOBB).
Welcome to the best football BB there is. Talk to you on draft day.

Gary
04-17-2001, 07:37 PM
"Trent Green:

Green is a solid NFL quarterback. He will win games with his head and leadership abilities more than with physical abilities. Last year, he was quite mobile, even with the knee. Against the Giants, he ran for 54 yards on 9 carries, with a TD, and he averaged four yds per carry overall; the knee won't be a problem. He has some problems with the deep ball and holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but he's excellent at the intermediate and short-range passes. He's a guy that you really can't go wrong with, b/c he's such a good guy and team leader. "

If Kansas City wants an intermediate and short-range passer who is a proven team leader, they would be better off to draft Drew Brees.

Cormac
04-17-2001, 07:51 PM
Sandman,

Nice post. Let me ask you.....of the 3 guys you mentioned, are there any that you will/would miss if we sign them all? Which is the most valuable to the team in his current capacity?

Mark M
04-17-2001, 08:03 PM
An intelligent post from a Rams fan ... ? :eek:

Welcome Sandman. Great analysis. I think you will be welcome here.

But I do have to ask--if Trent Green is so good, why did he go 2-3 last year as a starter? I'm not sure he can take a team on his shoulders and carry the load.

IMO, I don't think he's worth the #12 pick. Horne was a good pickup--one less player we need to get in the draft, unless there is a solid #3 WR somewhere in the 3rd round. Gotta feeling Horne will be a STer.

Of course, the Rams may have the 3rd pick, so who the hell knows.

MM
~~Practicing the art of the hit and run post.

Cormac
04-17-2001, 08:24 PM
Mark M,

I know Sandman can answer for himself.......but.......wasn't Green without Faulk for at least some of those games? He was certainly without a defense. And he put up a 100+ QB rating. It seems to me he did his part of the job pretty well. I don't want him for #12 either (unless that pick would be used on Bennett or Brees in which case I'd take him in a heartbeat), but he's a pretty good QB by all indications IMO.

sandman
04-17-2001, 08:50 PM
Green was 2-3 as a starter, true, but there were extenuating circumstances. He was without Faulk altogether for two of those games, and two others took place when Faulk was not yet completely recovered. One game, Faulk touched the ball only 10 times the whole game - the lowest amount of touches he's ever had in a full game as a Ram. Plus, that was one of the worst stretches of the season for our defense, right after we played you guys (it had been bad before then, but it was worse afterwards). Green performed very well with the opportunity he had and, like cormac said, he had a qb rating of over 100. In fact, he led us to two very impressive wins when he got help from those around him: a shellacking of the Giants in New York, in the snow, and a season-ending victory over New Orleans in which he played the entire second half after Warner went out with his concussion. Make no mistake about it, Green is a winner. Plus, he never once made the qb situation a controversy when he very well could've.

As for someone else's question of which Rams player will I miss the most....I would say Green, but not for the reason you may be thinking. I'm really going to miss the guy if he goes, b/c he's such a class act and a good guy to be able to say "he plays in St. Louis." I met him once, got an autograph and we talked for a few minutes...one of the nicest guys I've ever met. As for impact upon the team, I would say none of them will be that big of a loss, assuming Warner stays healthy (which isn't exactly a sure thing). Horne was good as a returner, but I believe it was as much the blocking scheme as it was him. Too often it seemed like he ran right into the pile and never even tried to make a move. Taje Allen won't be missed much. I think we missed DV more than we will any of these.

keg in kc
04-17-2001, 09:09 PM
He will win games with his head and leadership abilities more than with physical abilities

I don't doubt his potential, but I don't think he has yet proven anything, including his "head and leadership abilities." As for winning games, no matter what the circumstances may be, the fact remains that he was 6-8 as a starter in Washington and 2-3 as a starter in St. Louis. He has no playoff experience to boot.

As for holding on to the ball too long, we've covered that in some detail here, including the fact that he has been sacked more than 70 times in his short career and has fumbled 19 times, as well.

All that said, I don't question the thought that Green could perform well here, I just voice my agreement with the public statements of the KC front office: the current asking price is excessive, to say the least, and I sincerely hope we won't pay it.

Phobia
04-17-2001, 10:29 PM
Wow - very good post, sandman. Appreciate your insight & honesty. I, too don't believe Taj will add much more than ST & dime contributions. But, given our CB situation, we'll take him and see what happens. A 2 year contract with KC basically means we're gonna see what happens in training camp. He may not even make the team.

I've debated the Green situation too long and am on record as being completely against the trade as long as it involves a 1st rounder, which it clearly does.

Welcome - feel free to post here any time!

Phil

Mark M
04-18-2001, 05:50 AM
Cormac and sandman--
He was w/o Faulk, but that just means that Green needs a stud RB behind him in order to win. Who do the Chiefs have? I love TRich, but he's no Faulk.

I still say Green is not the answer. I'd rather have the #12 and the 3rd and have Collins start.

MM
~~Willing to suffer in the name of draft picks.

sandman
04-18-2001, 07:17 AM
the Rams also didn't have a defense last year. The defense lost those games, not Green.