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View Full Version : Let's discuss Dilfer....


Phobia
04-18-2001, 01:37 AM
He's tough to figure out. I've seen the numbers and I've heard all the reports.

I can best sum it up as, "I'm not opposed to him becoming KC's starter, but he's pretty hard to get excited about as well."

Anybody care to agree/disagree?

gh4chiefs
04-18-2001, 06:10 AM
I think you summed it up pretty well KP. I keep thinking that Dilfer can't be as bad as some claim, he is the reigning SB QB after all. But then I think about the fact that his own team wouldn't even talk to him about re-signing and I'm forced to think maybe he is that bad.

My guess is barring the trade for Green, we'll sign Dilfer as our starter with someone like Druckenmiller to compete with Collins for the #2 slot, and I'm sorry to say we're probably looking at another sub .500 year. Hope I'm wrong about that but IMHO we just won't be very good this season. That may not be all bad if we can just stand a couple of bad season as they rebuild the team.

47mack
04-18-2001, 07:03 AM
Phil,

I find the Dilfer debate intersting. So many people are opposed to him and think that he isn't a good QB. The guy took his team to a Superbowl. If he is a bad QB and still won the Superbowl, then what is the point in spending $$$ on a QB. IMO he is a better QB and leader than Elvis, but that is just MY opinion.

KCTitus
04-18-2001, 07:16 AM
Dilfer does have one thing going for him that Elvis did not...he won a playoff game and a SB.

Now for some here, that is the only measure of a good QB (as we were constantly reminded when Elvis was here) and they should welcome Dilfer.

I dont believe, necessarily, that Dilfer would produce the same result here because we dont have, first and foremost a running game to put behind him or the defense to score when he cant.

I think Dilfer did improve his confidence immensely last season and is a servicable QB. I think he is a step up from Collins. If KC drafts a QB, however, I would expect them to play him.

47mack
04-18-2001, 07:52 AM
By no means do I think Dilfer is a top quality/NFL leading QB. I do however, think that he is a better QB than Elvis was. Therefore, IMO KC has no room to criticize.

Gaz
04-18-2001, 08:19 AM
Dilfer is a complete mismatch with our new Offensive plan, just as Grbac would have been a complete mismatch. The new plan requires a quick read, an accurate arm and good judgement.

Does that description fit Dilfer or his almost identical twin Grbac?

No, it does not.

We should not sign a QB just to sign a QB. That is the kind of panic move that gave us Carlton Gray. Dilfer is a good fit if we want to play smashmouth, play action football. But then, if we want to play smashmouth, why bring in a new coaching staff?

We are better off with Collins as the starter than we are signing Dilfer.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wants cogs that actually fit the machine.

ChiTown
04-18-2001, 08:27 AM
I think the coaching staff and management are as perplexed about this whole QB quandry as the fans are. On one hand, it is very important to have a strong leader under the center, and a guy who can make a difference either passing the ball or making good decisions. On the other hand, when you look at the Chiefs, what do you really do for your team if you leverage your future (1st & 3rd for Green) on a QB. Does it drastically improve your team, does it make you competitive in 2001, does it buy you room to get better FA's in the following season. I don't know the answer, and I don't think the Chiefs do either.

However, when you look at all the needs that the Chiefs have, and you honestly look at their chances of winning anything significant in the next 2 years, aren't you better off trying to rebuild with short terms solutions at QB? Quite honestly, I don't like any of the short term solutions, but when I look at what gives us the greatest chance for future success without leveraging our future, I think Trent Dilfer (more so than Steve B.) provides the answer. I'm shocked as hell to see me type those words, but it seems that this might be the best possible solution. Sign him to a 3 year contract, draft your QBOTF in this or next years draft, weather through a couple of tough years knowing that 7-8 wins might be a tremendous success, and build the components of the team that are necessary to be a contender (better interior defensive line, more speed at LB, another good cover corner, stability at RB, more depth on the OL, and a better kicking game).

My point is: This is a tough scenario for any coaching staff to analyze. No one wants to rebuild in the NFL, when the lure of winning right away is around the corner (Balt, StL, Atl, etc. etc.). However, maybe they know, kind of like us fans, that the quick FA pickup has not made the impact that the Chiefs were looking for in the last 4-5 years. It is possible that the Chiefs are just now realizing what many fans have known for a while - we have been wading in mediocrity for too long.

If we are going to rebuild, lets rebuild without giving up a 1st and 3rd for an uproven QB, let's do it with a QB who has a chance to play for a while and has some youth, let's do it with a guy (who like it or not) is playoff savvy and is a competitor, and can be a decent backup once the QBOTF is ready. My vote is for Trent Dilfer.

NaptownChief
04-18-2001, 08:30 AM
I completely agree with Gaz on this....

When Dilfer QB'ed the Bucs were the last rated passing offense in the league all but one season...

Last year with the Ravens, the offense was very poor. Granted he made it work better than T.Banks but that is saying virtually nothing...Banks is probably the worst NFL QB in the history that keeps getting opportunity after opportunity despite the fact that he has proven over and over that he can't do the job....

Did Dilfer win a Super Bowl? Sure he did and so would have 50 plus other NFL QB's had they been playing for that team with that dominate defense....

They won a Super Bowl despite Trent Dilfer not because of him...Baltimore made that statement as loud and as clear as possible when they said before the playoffs started that they would not be bringing him back into the fold even if they won the Super Bowl...

Trent Dilfer offers us the right solution if and only if the whole Baltimore defense comes with him...

cjderby
04-18-2001, 10:27 AM
I guess I'm a "glass half-full" kind of guy, but if Testaverde can come out of TB and practically lead the Jets to a Super Bowl with MVP-quality play, why not Dilfer? They had practically identical career stats coming out of TB and nobody thought much of Vinny when he left, either.

I'm not excited about Dilfer, or predicting a Vinny-esque rebirth. But who knows? It's not unprecedented, lightning could strike twice! Keep the faith, brothers!!!

ROYC75
04-18-2001, 10:38 AM
Dilfer ...... ???? Come on Man ! No Way do I want him ! I agree with Gaz and Nap on this !

Just a hunch here...if no Green on draft day....look for "Buuurrrline"......then Maddox or" Drunkenmiller"to compete for the for the 3 spot. I'm almost for giving Collins the chance with Steve as the #2 !

We really don't need to give up anymore pic's to the Rams. Crap we resemble them to much now,but this is what DV wants.

Not sure if DV wants to spend #1 on a HB either. I believe the HB's we have can do the job if used properly. I feel that the defense needs to be our # 1 concern at this time !

I know many of you will disagree with this,that's fine....
but ....DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS !

NaptownChief
04-18-2001, 11:00 AM
cjderby,

The biggest difference between Dilfer and Vinny when they were in TB was that the Bucs were a horrible team all around when Vinny was there....When Dilfer was there, they were a very good team that only had one shortcoming and that was QB...

Lightning Rod
04-18-2001, 11:12 AM
TD is a good back up QB now and would have been very good on the Team that Bono won 14 games with. This is not the same team. I can’t believe we have not seen a Billy Joe work out at QB yet. Get Green for a fair price. Draft a QB. Or just stick Collins in there and if we win only 3 games so be it. How are next years crop of QBs expected to be?

Tribal Warfare
04-18-2001, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Gaz

We should not sign a QB just to sign a QB. That is the kind of panic move that gave us Carlton Gray. Dilfer is a good fit if we want to play smashmouth, play action football. But then, if we want to play smashmouth, why bring in a new coaching staff?






KC is looking for a stopgap QB. excluding Green or Brees. Dilfer is exactly that, a stopgap QB. Dilfer will be a one or two year option, until KC finds someone better. (Eli Manning, Chris Simms, Ken Dorsey, Jason Thomas) Gaz, have faith in the coaching staff, they know what they're doing. Vermeil and staff have the rings to prove it.
:cool:

Gaz
04-18-2001, 11:58 AM
ChiefPriority-

Yes, we will be signing a short-term QB. But we should sign one who can at least fill in for our QBOTF.

Let us review the qualifications for QB in the “Chargers Midwest” Offensive scheme:

1. Quick Defensive read.
2. Accurate passing.
3. Good decision making.

Dilfer?

No. He does not qualify on any count. Collins or Beuerlein is a much better fit for this style than Dilfer. For that matter, so are Maddox or Druckenmiller.

I am not one of those who simply says “Dilfer sucks” and refuses to acknowledge his ability. He has a great personality, good leadership skills and a strong arm. He was a good fit for the Ravens Offense, he would have been a good fit for Gunther’s smashmouth Offense last season, and he would be a good fit for Marty in Washington. But he does not fit Saunders’ up-tempo Offense.

xoxo~
Gaz
Does not want to go back to the Raye Offense, thank you.

DaneMcCloud
04-18-2001, 12:01 PM
"The biggest difference between Dilfer and Vinny when they were in TB was that the Bucs were a horrible team all around when Vinny was there....When Dilfer was there, they were a very good team that only had one shortcoming and that was QB..."

Please JL, tell who were the wide receivers in Tampa Bay? Have ANY of them been to the Pro-Bowl? How about their tight end? Pro-Bowler? Have any of them been to the Pro-Bowl since Dilfer left? Dilfer was surrounded by a team that was similar to the 1995 Chiefs - good, consistent running game, strong defense and NO WIDE RECEIVERS!! Same thing happened to Dilfer in Baltimore - by the time Dilfer took over, Travis Taylor was out for the year, Ismail was hurt and Shannon Sharpe was his only true weapon. And what happened? Dilfer found Sharpe for several game winning TD's! Dilfer was also a Pro Bowl QB in 1997 for Tampa Bay WITH NO WEAPONS! I don't think this post will change your mind because for some reason, you're mind is completely closed when it comes to Dilfer, but the guy has great character, is a fine leader and has great lockerroom presence, and IS A WINNER!!! What more could you ask for? You already had a 4,000 yard QB and where did that go? Winning isn't always about personal statistics!

Gaz
04-18-2001, 12:04 PM
What more could you ask for?

Accuracy.

xoxo~
Gaz
Won’t take a QB without it.

cjderby
04-18-2001, 01:15 PM
Last two meaningful seasons for each player:

Warner 66.2%
Manning 62.3%
B. Johnson 61.5%
Beuerlein 61.2%
Griese 60.5%
McNair 59.8%
Brunnell 59.8%
Dilfer 59.6%
Gannon 59.5%
Testaverde 58.1%
Favre 57.8%
Bledsoe 57.7%
Green 56.5%

Dilfer 's % certainly isn't bad. And Green, who is supposedly the great fit for our offense, is bottom of the list. And I didn't do that on purpose, I just grabbed some big names and ran the numbers.... Just trying to remain objective! :)

NaptownChief
04-18-2001, 02:56 PM
Put him on a team that doesn't have a great defense and the % goes down the toilet...Because the D shutdown virtually everyone he was never forced to create anything...All he had to do was just throw the nickel and dime screens and let Stover leg through 9 points for a win....Had he been on a team with anything less than a great defense he would have been forced to take more chances and that % would have been near the bottom of the league...

If he had much of anything to offer then why the hell would Baltimore break up their Super Bowl team and chemistry by not wanting him back...It sure the hell wasn't because he was asking for much money...They didn't want him back if he played for free.