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shaneo69
05-23-2007, 11:48 AM
Left guard Brian Waters said he couldn’t respect Green more for the way he’s handling his uncertain future. Waters said the Chiefs’ management has mistreated Green.

“Considering the professional he’s been … I don’t think it’s fair to him,” Waters said. “I don’t think it’s fair. A guy in his position is owed the right to be in a stable position and know where he’s going to be at.

“We all know the shrewdness of this particular football team. Some of the people are going to do what’s best for them.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/119036.html

keg in kc
05-23-2007, 11:57 AM
Yeah, god forbid a 37-year old QB has to compete for his job the year after a severe head injury followed by extremely poor performance.

Poor baby.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:05 PM
Yeah, god forbid a 37-year old QB has to compete for his job the year after a severe head injury followed by extremely poor performance.

Poor baby.

You feel that way about Trent, and yet you expect THE SAME COMPENSATION for him that Tennessee got for a THIRTY THREE year old Steve McNair last year???

nychief
05-23-2007, 12:09 PM
"deserves?" Why?

Wile_E_Coyote
05-23-2007, 12:11 PM
He called Peterson shrewd, Brian covered both bases well

Mr. Laz
05-23-2007, 12:11 PM
Waters needs to stfu


Herman Edwards needs to get control of his team

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:14 PM
How have they mistreated him? Oh, they paid him millions of dollars. I see. Damn this organization... :rolleyes:

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:15 PM
How have they mistreated him? Oh, they paid him millions of dollars. I see. Damn this organization... :rolleyes:

I think Waters meant forcing him to "ride the pine" for the last year or two of his career.

ChiTown
05-23-2007, 12:16 PM
This shit is LOL funny.

Look, Trent is doing what's good for Trent, and CP is doing what's best for the Chiefs. There's nothing insidious by either side, IMO. They are both doing what they are supposed to do at this stage of the game - look out for their own best interest.

shaneo69
05-23-2007, 12:16 PM
Waters needs to stfu

Guess it could've been worse. He could've talked about how he supports dog fighting.

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:18 PM
Also, the Chiefs asked him to take a pay cut. He declined. So, now the Chiefs plan to honor the contract. But, Trent still wants to leave. He doesn't want to compete for a starting position. Who is mistreating who again?

Chiefnj
05-23-2007, 12:19 PM
Guess it could've been worse. He could've talked about how he supports dog fighting.
ROFL

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:20 PM
Guess it could've been worse. He could've talked about how he supports dog fighting.LMAO

the Talking Can
05-23-2007, 12:20 PM
when asked about Green after the first game of the season Waters responded, "Who?"

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:21 PM
Also, the Chiefs asked him to take a pay cut. He declined. So, now the Chiefs plan to honor the contract. But, Trent still wants to leave. He doesn't want to compete for a starting position.

When Trent Green lives in Kansas City, and finds out about a new QB coach - and how the offense is changing - from another QB who lives 1500 miles away... exactly what kind of competition is it going to be?

Who is mistreating who again?

Dunno... but it sounds like Carl Peterson is pissing all over Trent Green's cleat's, and then trying to convince him it's raining.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2007, 12:22 PM
Trent has 7.2 million reasons why to not be upset. I dont feel 1 ounce of sympathy for someone that will make that much money. Wow, his family wont get settled in. Big ****ing deal. I dont think my family would mind at all. lol

Easy 6
05-23-2007, 12:24 PM
Somethings gotta give here & quick, this is getting uglier by the minute. If a respected team leader like Waters is yakkin about it, theres a real possibility of this poisoning the lockerroom.

It would SUCK to lose face to those bastard fins, but i'd rather do that than have some FULL-BLOWN media frenzy distraction to start the year with.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:25 PM
Trent has 7.2 million reasons why to not be upset. I dont feel 1 ounce of sympathy for someone that will make that much money. Wow, his family wont get settled in. Big ****ing deal. I dont think my family would mind at all. lol

I know it's hard to accept since so many NFL players seem to care ONLY about money... but some of them actually love to play the game.

To force a guy to sit the bench for the last year or two that he can be a viable starter in the game he loves.........

StcChief
05-23-2007, 12:27 PM
Trent has 7.2 million reasons why to not be upset. I dont feel 1 ounce of sympathy for someone that will make that much money. Wow, his family wont get settled in. Big ****ing deal. I dont think my family would mind at all. lol

If he's so sure about Miami giving him a contract....

send Wifey and kids down now for an extended Fla Vacation. they might have 2nd thoughts about living there thru 1st Hurricane season.... :)

Wile_E_Coyote
05-23-2007, 12:27 PM
Carl wants some of that Fin tail, it's the talk of the league

Coogs
05-23-2007, 12:29 PM
When Trent Green lives in Kansas City, and finds out about a new QB coach - and how the offense is changing - from another QB who lives 1500 miles away... exactly what kind of competition is it going to be?

What kind of competition was it last year in camp? Was it fair on all accounts? Did Huard, Croyle, and Printers have an equal chance to dethrone Green for the starting position? Or was it weighted in Greens favor since he was the incumbant starter?

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:30 PM
When Trent Green lives in Kansas City, and finds out about a new QB coach - and how the offense is changing - from another QB who lives 1500 miles away... exactly what kind of competition is it going to be?



Dunno... but it sounds like Carl Peterson is pissing all over Trent Green's cleat's, and then trying to convince him it's raining.I see. You are a Green groupie. This is a business, get over it. Read post #16...
:rolleyes:

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:30 PM
If he's so sure about Miami giving him a contract....

send Wifey and kids down now for an extended Fla Vacation. they might have 2nd thoughts about living there thru 1st Hurricane season.... :)

Yeah... it would be terrible to have to spend a little of all that money he'd save by living in a state with NO INCOME TAX, on having someone board-up his windows once a year. lol

ChiefsCountry
05-23-2007, 12:31 PM
I see. You are a Green groupie. This is a business, get over it. Read post #16...
:rolleyes:

No he is a Miami fan.

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:31 PM
What kind of competition was it last year in camp? Was it fair on all accounts? Did Huard, Croyle, and Printers have an equal chance to dethrone Green for the starting position? Or was it weighted in Greens favor since he was the incumbant starter?What he said...

shaneo69
05-23-2007, 12:33 PM
What pisses me off about this is that because of Carl's stubbornness, we have an extra $7.2 mil on the books right now which could've been used to sign Jason Webster. According to the columnists on KCChiefs.com, the Star, and many people here, CB is our biggest weak spot, and apparently we had interest in him according to this SI article...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/21/bc.fbn.bills.webster.ap/

Cutting Green right now would basically be the equivalent of when we cut Eric Hicks. Big fuggin deal. He's done; he's not gonna help us or any other team, so why is it so tough to cut the guy and get rid of that salary cap hit?

Because Carl is a fuggin jack@ss.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:34 PM
You feel that way about Trent, and yet you expect THE SAME COMPENSATION for him that Tennessee got for a THIRTY THREE year old Steve McNair last year???

WRONG.

I feel the same way as Keg, and I don't think Green is worth a 4th.

But he's worth more than what the Dolphins have offered.

Period.

Chiefnj
05-23-2007, 12:34 PM
What kind of competition was it last year in camp? Was it fair on all accounts? Did Huard, Croyle, and Printers have an equal chance to dethrone Green for the starting position? Or was it weighted in Greens favor since he was the incumbant starter?

It's always weighted in favor of whoever the coach wants.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:36 PM
WRONG.

I feel the same way as Keg, and I don't think Green is worth a 4th.

But he's worth more than what the Dolphins have offered.

Period.

Well it's been reported everywhere that the Dolphins are willing to move off the offer of a 6th round pick. What can that be BUT a 5th rounder???

I haven't seen it reported anywhere that KC would take less than a 4th round pick. Have you?

BigMeatballDave
05-23-2007, 12:36 PM
WRONG.

I feel the same way as Keg, and I don't think Green is worth a 4th.

But he's worth more than what the Dolphins have offered.

Period.yep

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:36 PM
What pisses me off about this is that because of Carl's stubbornness, we have an extra $7.2 mil on the books right now which could've been used to sign Jason Webster. According to the columnists on KCChiefs.com, the Star, and many people here, CB is our biggest weak spot, and apparently we had interest in him according to this SI article...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/21/bc.fbn.bills.webster.ap/

Cutting Green right now would basically be the equivalent of when we cut Eric Hicks. Big fuggin deal. He's done; he's not gonna help us or any other team, so why is it so tough to cut the guy and get rid of that salary cap hit?

Because Carl is a fuggin jack@ss.

Trent Green's salary cap hit has nothing to do with whether or not we signed Jason Webster.

We're WELL under the salary cap, we could have signed him without cutting Green.

shaneo69
05-23-2007, 12:37 PM
Trent Green's salary cap hit has nothing to do with whether or not we signed Jason Webster.

We're WELL under the salary cap, we could have signed him without cutting Green.

Well, I guess if you say so, it must be right.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:38 PM
When Trent Green lives in Kansas City, and finds out about a new QB coach - and how the offense is changing - from another QB who lives 1500 miles away... exactly what kind of competition is it going to be?

The same kind of competition he'll face in Miami - WEIGHTED.

The only difference is that the competition here is weighted AGAINST him, while the competition there will be in his favor.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:38 PM
Well it's been reported everywhere that the Dolphins are willing to move off the offer of a 6th round pick. What can that be BUT a 5th rounder???

I haven't seen it reported anywhere that KC would take less than a 4th round pick. Have you?

KC reportedly requested a 6th and a swap of 3rds.

Easy 6
05-23-2007, 12:40 PM
If they offer a 5th, we should grab it & scram outta this mess.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:41 PM
The same kind of competition he'll face in Miami - WEIGHTED.

The only difference is that the competition here is weighted AGAINST him, while the competition there will be in his favor.

I don't think so. Cameron has said since day one there will be an open competition. Trent himself said he hasn't been guaranteed a starting position... only a spot in the competition.

I think his knowledge of the offense will obviously be weighed in his favor... and thats likely what he's counting on.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:41 PM
Well, I guess if you say so, it must be right.

ROFL

How about you go do some research instead of just bitching?

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:42 PM
KC reportedly requested a 6th and a swap of 3rds.

Yeah... well that's the equivalent of a 4th round pick (usually the price of swapping 3rd rounders) AND a 6th rounder isn't it??? If not it's the equivalent of a 5th AND 6th.

the Talking Can
05-23-2007, 12:43 PM
I know it's hard to accept since so many NFL players seem to care ONLY about money... but some of them actually love to play the game.

To force a guy to sit the bench for the last year or two that he can be a viable starter in the game he loves.........

god you're dumb....and since Miami doesn't want or need Green, just shut up...you don't know anything

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:43 PM
I don't think so. Cameron has said since day one there will be an open competition. Trent himself said he hasn't been guaranteed a starting position... only a spot in the competition.

I think his knowledge of the offense will obviously be weighed in his favor... and thats likely what he's counting on.

ROFL

It doesn't matter WHY it's weighted.

shaneo69
05-23-2007, 12:44 PM
How about you go do some research instead of just bitching?

How about you go f*ck yourself, hmmm?

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:45 PM
god you're dumb....and since Miami doesn't want or need Green, just shut up...you don't know anything

Well obviously they want him, or this cr@p wouldn't be going into its third month would it?

Sorry if I'm stirring the sh!t here this morning... but I'd hardly call presenting an opposing viewpoint being "dumb" or "not knowing anything".

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:48 PM
Yeah... well that's the equivalent of a 4th round pick (usually the price of swapping 3rd rounders) AND a 6th rounder isn't it??? If not it's the equivalent of a 5th AND 6th.

Miami's 4th-round pick was worth 78 points.

Their 6th plus a swap of 3rds would have been worth 75.

Yep, that's LESS than their 4th rounder.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:49 PM
How about you go f*ck yourself, hmmm?

Must have struck a nerve, huh?

The truth hurts.

So by all means, bitch some more.

Bitch.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:50 PM
ROFL

It doesn't matter WHY it's weighted.

I just got through saying I don't think it would be weighted.

I said I think Trent feels his knowledge of the offense gives him an ADVANTAGE in the Miami competition... but I'm sure Daunte Culpepper thinks his much stronger arm give him an advantage.... and Cleo Lemon probably thinks his working with Cameron for two years previously - and taking all the 1st team snaps up till now probably gives him an advantage.... and John Beck probably thinks since he was the hand picked QB draftee gives HIM an advantage.

The point is - no one in the Miami front office has indicated the team wants the competition to go a certain way.... none of the QB's have more intimate knowledge of the teams direction than any other... and thats just something you can't say about the situation in Kansas City. Period.

Coogs
05-23-2007, 12:54 PM
It's always weighted in favor of whoever the coach wants.

:thumb:

noa
05-23-2007, 12:54 PM
I have to disagree with Waters on this one. We don't owe it to Trent to put him in a stable situation. We owe it to ourselves to do what's best for the franchise. Lots of us will disagree over what's best for the franchise, but I certainly don't think we should make our decision based on owing it to Trent to put him in a stable situation.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Miami's 4th-round pick was worth 78 points.

Their 6th plus a swap of 3rds would have been worth 75.

Yep, that's LESS than their 4th rounder.

Yeah, thats three points less than the NINTH pick in the 4th round... for a THIRTY SEVEN year old concussion case coming off a poor season.

Didn't we just agree Green wasn't worth a 4th????

Are you intentionally trying to misunderstand the point now, or are you disavowing your previous agreement that a 4th was too much???

mikey23545
05-23-2007, 12:56 PM
I know it's hard to accept since so many NFL players seem to care ONLY about money... but some of them actually love to play the game.

To force a guy to sit the bench for the last year or two that he can be a viable starter in the game he loves.........

I know...it pisses me off the Dolphins are going to force him to stay on KC's bench as well.....

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 12:58 PM
I said I think Trent feels his knowledge of the offense gives him an ADVANTAGE in the Miami competition...

That would make it weighted.

At least in Trent's eyes.

He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 12:58 PM
I know...it pisses me off the Dolphins are going to force him to stay on KC's bench as well.....

LOL

Touche`! However, it ain't the actions of Miami, Green is complaining about in those press conferences is it?

ChiTown
05-23-2007, 12:59 PM
Well obviously they want him, or this cr@p wouldn't be going into its third month would it?

Sorry if I'm stirring the sh!t here this morning... but I'd hardly call presenting an opposing viewpoint being "dumb" or "not knowing anything".

Heh, right.

Miami is as much to blame for Trent still being in KC as anybody. Do you agree with that?

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 01:00 PM
That would make it weighted.

At least in Trent's eyes.

He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

There's a difference in believing you have a competitive advantage... and actually seeing that you have one in the actions of the ultimate decision-maker, don't you think?

shaneo69
05-23-2007, 01:01 PM
Must have struck a nerve, huh?

The truth hurts.

So by all means, bitch some more.

Bitch.

Ouch, did you call me a bitch? That hurts.

Well, here's some more for you...

Why isn't everyone up in arms that Carl didn't hold onto Hicks until the Jets offered a 5th round pick for him? Probably because they realize that Hicks sucks and it's better that he's gone.

So when is Carl and everyone defending Carl going to realize the same thing about Green?

ChiTown
05-23-2007, 01:01 PM
LOL

Touche`! However, it ain't the actions of Miami, Green is complaining about in those press conferences is it?

Well, seeing how it's probably bad form to be critical of your future employer, that probably hasn't factored into it at all. Not to mention, I'm sure his agent has told him the WHOLE story :rolleyes:

Get real.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 01:03 PM
There's a difference in believing you have a competitive advantage... and actually seeing that you have one in the actions of the ultimate decision-maker, don't you think?

Weighted is weighted.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 01:04 PM
Ouch, did you call me a bitch? That hurts.

Well, here's some more for you...

Why isn't everyone up in arms that Carl didn't hold onto Hicks until the Jets offered a 5th round pick for him? Probably because they realize that Hicks sucks and it's better that he's gone.

So when is Carl and everyone defending Carl going to realize the same thing about Green?

Hicks had no trade value.

Green has AT LEAST some trade value, because the Dolphins have offered as high a 6th rounder for him.

There's no comparison.

Wile_E_Coyote
05-23-2007, 01:08 PM
If I remember right Brian Waters agent is Brain Waters. good job Brian :thumb:

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 01:09 PM
Heh, right.

Miami is as much to blame for Trent still being in KC as anybody. Do you agree with that?

No. If Kansas City had asked for a 5th round pick (my absolutely honest assessment of Green's value), and Miami turned it down... then I'd agree with you.

Honestly I can't believe Peterson allowed Green to talk to Miami BEFORE having a trade agreement in place.

In fact I was so sure (one year after having watched Matt Millen make the SAME mistake in Detroit) that an experienced GM would NOT do this, that I was convinced the reports in Miami of Carl Peterson backing out on an actual agreement due to Matt Schaub's trade to Texas bringing so much booty - were absolutely TRUE!

I have no idea if that was the case now or not... its a moot point.

Next, Peterson asks for a 2nd and a 7th, and mentions the Wes Welker restricted FA trade????? Then he insists on a 1st day pick??? Then a 4th rounder????

At least a 4th rounder is in the same area code, or enough to offer an explaination:

Steve McNair (33) traded for a 4th round pick in 2006. Trent Green (37) should be worth....... ?

I think a 5th is fair for both sides. If Miami turns down Green for a 5th rounder, THEN I'll say they are as much to blame for Green's "crucifixion" as KC.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 01:13 PM
No. If Kansas City had asked for a 5th round pick (my absolutely honest assessment of Green's value), and Miami turned it down... then I'd agree with you.

Honestly I can't believe Peterson allowed Green to talk to Miami BEFORE having a trade agreement in place.

In fact I was so sure (one year after having watched Matt Millen make the SAME mistake in Detroit) that an experienced GM would NOT do this, that I was convinced the reports in Miami of Carl Peterson backing out on an actual agreement due to Matt Schaub's trade to Texas bringing so much booty - were absolutely TRUE!

I have no idea if that was the case now or not... its a moot point.

Next, Peterson asks for a 2nd and a 7th, and mentions the Wes Welker restricted FA trade????? Then he insists on a 1st day pick??? Then a 4th rounder????

At least a 4th rounder is in the same area code, or enough to offer an explaination:

Steve McNair (33) traded for a 4th round pick in 2006. Trent Green (37) should be worth....... ?

I think a 5th is fair for both sides. If Miami turns down Green for a 5th rounder, THEN I'll say they are as much to blame for Green's "crucifixion" as KC.

What is FAIR is a conditional draft pick.

If he plays, you give us a 5th. If he goes the Pro Bowl or takes you to the Super Bowl, you give us higher. If he goes bust, you give us a 6th or 7th.

Tuckdaddy
05-23-2007, 01:14 PM
THIS IS SUCH BS! Why the hell is CP being drug through the mudd over this. Miami is who TG should be mad at. They want him there then they should give up the fourth. What GM just gives up starting QB's? TG's behavior really pisses me off. He should be blasting Miami for inking a deal with him and then not giving up the pick to get them there.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 01:14 PM
Weighted is weighted.

Weighted in Green's mind vs. weighted in the decision-makers mind is a BIG difference.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 01:26 PM
Weighted in Green's mind vs. weighted in the decision-makers mind is a BIG difference.

As far as all of us know, the situation in KC is weighted IN GREEN's MIND. The Chiefs have NEVER said that Brodie is the starter. They've made several statements that would INSINUATE that but what all of us, including Trent, are doing is nevertheless just speculation.

Coogs
05-23-2007, 01:26 PM
Weighted in Green's mind vs. weighted in the decision-makers mind is a BIG difference.

I like Green. But it was weighted in his favor last season. And every single season he was here for that matter.

And in training camp it was weighted in favor of every single older starter on the team. Weighted so much in fact that most of them didn't even have to practice. Play a little golf or whatever, and show up ever other day for a little practice.

I am looking forward to having a young team this season that actually has to do something in training camp to earn their starting spots, and vets that have to do something to hold on to their starting spots. In the long run, I think that makes us a better team.

Mecca
05-23-2007, 01:34 PM
Uh oh........Brian Waters is suppose to be a team leader this isn't good.

Uh of course it was weighed in Green's favor in past years he was the starter period that's like saying the Colts camp is weighed to Peyton Manning.

Coogs
05-23-2007, 01:39 PM
Uh of course it was weighed in Green's favor in past years he was the starter period that's like saying the Colts camp is weighed to Peyton Manning.

Exactly!

GoHuge
05-23-2007, 01:39 PM
Just think of what will happen if Croyle sucks!

Coogs
05-23-2007, 01:41 PM
Just think of what will happen if Croyle sucks!

Brian Brohm moves to the top of the Chiefs draft wish list in the 2008 draft.

Mecca
05-23-2007, 01:41 PM
He probably will suck for atleast a year........Oh god Brian Brohm is someone I think projects horribly to the NFL, there are a bunch of guys at the top of next years draft I like more.

GoHuge
05-23-2007, 01:46 PM
The part that every body seems to forget about the AFC West QB's is all of our competition got top 10 first round QB's. We have a wet noodle third rounder. Not exactly apples to apples.

Brock
05-23-2007, 01:48 PM
The part that every body seems to forget about the AFC West QB's is all of our competition got top 10 first round QB's. We have a wet noodle third rounder. Not exactly apples to apples.

Yeah, and we also forgot how you know so much about Brodie Croyle based off of 7 career attempts. Idiot.

Chiefnj
05-23-2007, 01:48 PM
And in training camp it was weighted in favor of every single older starter on the team. Weighted so much in fact that most of them didn't even have to practice. Play a little golf or whatever, and show up ever other day for a little practice.
.

You aren't talking about the Vermeil camps that Roaf blamed for his retirement are you?

People put too much faith in Herm and his declaration that competition is good and the best players will play. Herm is going to play Herm's players. There isn't anything wrong with that, all coaches do it. But lets not pretend it is all an open competition; it isn't - just ask Griffin, Thorpe and Tynes.

Fish
05-23-2007, 01:48 PM
The part that every body seems to forget about the AFC West QB's is all of our competition got top 10 first round QB's. We have a wet noodle third rounder. Not exactly apples to apples.

Wet noodle? Have you seen Croyle throw?

Brock
05-23-2007, 01:49 PM
Wet noodle? Have you seen Croyle throw?

Sure he has. 7 times. That's more than enough to know that Croyle has bust written all over him.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 01:50 PM
What exactly is wet noodle about Brodie Croyle? If you're referring to his arm you're being ignorant.

keg in kc
05-23-2007, 01:57 PM
You feel that way about Trent, and yet you expect THE SAME COMPENSATION for him that Tennessee got for a THIRTY THREE year old Steve McNair last year???Your dumb ass lost the right to talk about this the minute it came out that Miami turned down a swap of 3rds and a 6th.

You want your starter for nothing. I get that.

That doesn't mean KC has to agree with you.

Sorry if you can't handle things in the grown-up world.

GoHuge
05-23-2007, 01:59 PM
I don't know if the kid is a bust or super star. What I meant was he just wasn't the "prospect" the other guys where. That's it. Wet noodle probably wasn't a fair statement. My bad

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 02:05 PM
Your dumb ass lost the right to talk about this the minute it came out that Miami turned down a swap of 3rds and a 6th.

And why is that you dumbass? Because I shouldn't have been able to recognize that thats just a different way of asking for a 4th round pick??????? LOL Smooth move Carl... I'm sure you almost fooled Mueller with that one. NOT. :)

You want your starter for nothing. I get that.

That doesn't mean KC has to agree with you.

Sorry if you can't handle things in the grown-up world.

You want to be overcompensated for a guy that isn't in your teams plans anymore. I get that.

That doesn't mean Miami has to be the one you rape.

Sorry if that disrupts your little dream world.

As for me handling this, I'm fine. No Dolphin players are down at the end of the locker room being crucified that I know of.... seems to be a KC thing. LOL

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 02:05 PM
I don't know if the kid is a bust or super star. What I meant was he just wasn't the "prospect" the other guys where. That's it. Wet noodle probably wasn't a fair statement. My bad

You could say the same thing about Philip Rivers last year.

Cochise
05-23-2007, 02:08 PM
The idea that either party is out of bounds here is silly, ChiTown hit the nail on the head. Green is doing what he should do in his position, Carl is doing what he should do, Miami is doing what they should do. Nobody is being a dickwad here. We just get to sit around and wait to see who blinks.

Cochise
05-23-2007, 02:10 PM
Honestly I can't believe Peterson allowed Green to talk to Miami BEFORE having a trade agreement in place.

Evidently you are new to watching the NFL, but that's how it always works. :stupid:

Der Flöprer
05-23-2007, 02:18 PM
When Trent Green lives in Kansas City, and finds out about a new QB coach - and how the offense is changing - from another QB who lives 1500 miles away... exactly what kind of competition is it going to be?



Dunno... but it sounds like Carl Peterson is pissing all over Trent Green's cleat's, and then trying to convince him it's raining.


I can't help but notice all of the Dolphins fans keep on posting their same opinions on the Trent Green fiasco much like the Chiefs fans do. My point is, it's obvious Chiefs fans have a vested interest in the outcome of this situation. I keep hearing from the Phins fans of the board though that they don't care whether they get Trent or not. If that's the case, why keep posting the same stuff? Don't say because the Chiefs fans are either, because it's obvious we have a vested interest. We don't pretend that we don't care, you do though. It's obvious you all want him on your squad, yet you act like we're villians for not hand delivering you your starting QB for the great low price of free. It even sounds retarded.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 02:26 PM
I can't help but notice all of the Dolphins fans keep on posting their same opinions on the Trent Green fiasco much like the Chiefs fans do. My point is, it's obvious Chiefs fans have a vested interest in the outcome of this situation. I keep hearing from the Phins fans of the board though that they don't care whether they get Trent or not. If that's the case, why keep posting the same stuff? Don't say because the Chiefs fans are either, because it's obvious we have a vested interest. We don't pretend that we don't care, you do though.

Oh and I'm sure the fact that Miami has been called everything from MORON's to THIEF's over this little situation should not bother ANY Dolphins fans... just move along, while we pass misinformed/incorrect information and insults about your team around for months. Nothing to see....

It's obvious you all want him on your squad, yet you act like we're villians for not hand delivering you your starting QB for the great low price of free. It even sounds retarded.

I've admitted 3 times in THIS THREAD, that I'd like to have Trent Green for fair value... which as I've pointed out (and had several Chiefs fans agree) is a 5th round pick.

A 5th round pick ISN'T FREE! Hell the offer thats been on the table for two months of a 6th round pick ISN'T FREE!

The Jets signing Hicks yesterday... THATS FREE!

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 02:27 PM
Evidently you are new to watching the NFL, but that's how it always works. :stupid:

Sorry... but that isn't how it always works. That how it works when MORON's are in charge.

Congratulations.... with the clear example of Matt Millen screwing the pooch one year ago in front of him - Carl Peterson proceeds to make the same mistake!

Der Flöprer
05-23-2007, 02:39 PM
Oh and I'm sure the fact that Miami has been called everything from MORON's to THIEF's over this little situation should not bother ANY Dolphins fans... just move along, while we pass misinformed/incorrect information and insults about your team around for months. Nothing to see....



I've admitted 3 times in THIS THREAD, that I'd like to have Trent Green for fair value... which as I've pointed out (and had several Chiefs fans agree) is a 5th round pick.

A 5th round pick ISN'T FREE! Hell the offer thats been on the table for two months of a 6th round pick ISN'T FREE!

The Jets signing Hicks yesterday... THATS FREE!


If you're admitting you want Trent for fair value, then please, do tell, what is your opinion of fair value? You don't think a 6th rounder and a swap of 3rd's was fair? You don't think a 4th (Which is still a 2nd day pick) for your starting QB is fair? More so, how about your starting QB who actually already knows this COMPLEX system. If you don't think those offers are fair, then I personally think you, and some of the Chiefs fans on this board are dissillusioned. FTR I would've given someone a draft pick to take Eric Hicks off our hands a year or two ago, it's not even a remotely close similarity.

go bowe
05-23-2007, 02:47 PM
And why is that you dumbass? Because I shouldn't have been able to recognize that thats just a different way of asking for a 4th round pick??????? LOL Smooth move Carl... I'm sure you almost fooled Mueller with that one. NOT. :)



You want to be overcompensated for a guy that isn't in your teams plans anymore. I get that.

That doesn't mean Miami has to be the one you rape.

Sorry if that disrupts your little dream world.

As for me handling this, I'm fine. No Dolphin players are down at the end of the locker room being crucified that I know of.... seems to be a KC thing. LOLon a scale of 10...

content 7.5
presentaton 8.0
creativity or originality in name calling 0.25
bonus for coming here to give us your point of view and letting shit roll off your back 10.0

total score 25.75

average score 6.44 on a 10 point scale...

not bad for a fin fan...

not bad at all...

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 03:11 PM
If you're admitting you want Trent for fair value, then please, do tell, what is your opinion of fair value? You don't think a 6th rounder and a swap of 3rd's was fair?

NO. I don't think that's fair. I think thats equivalent to a 4th round pick, and I think Steve McNair was traded for a 4th round pick when he was FOUR YEARS YOUNGER than Trent Green.

You don't think a 4th (Which is still a 2nd day pick) for your starting QB is fair?

NO. I don't think that's fair. I think Steve McNair was traded for a 4th round pick when he was FOUR YEARS YOUNGER than Trent Green.

BTW - Green Has NOT been promised a starting job in Miami.

More so, how about your starting QB who actually already knows this COMPLEX system. If you don't think those offers are fair, then I personally think you, and some of the Chiefs fans on this board are dissillusioned.

I think a 5th round pick is fair... and so do some of your fellow fans.

I think YOU are the disillusioned one, trying desperately to get a little more value than you actually should out of an aging veteran. It's not like Trent didn't leave it all on the field for you.... heck, maybe some brain leakage even last year. lol

FTR I would've given someone a draft pick to take Eric Hicks off our hands a year or two ago, it's not even a remotely close similarity.

MY exact point... YOUR the one who said we wanted Green for free. Now when I give you an example of "FREE" you say the situations aren't similar. Well DUH!!!! Hicks was FREE to New York... Green will bring value (obviously not as much as YOU would like, but he will bring value).

the Talking Can
05-23-2007, 03:16 PM
why would any team expect to be given a Starting QB for less than a 4th?

lord this is retarded....we just keep starting this stupid conversation over....

Starting QBs are worth a 4th, period....for some reason Miami wants their Starting QB for free...

god I hope we trade him somewhere else just because their fans are such douchebags

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 03:18 PM
on a scale of 10...

content 7.5
presentaton 8.0
creativity or originality in name calling 0.25
bonus for coming here to give us your point of view and letting shit roll off your back 10.0

total score 25.75

average score 6.44 on a 10 point scale...

not bad for a fin fan...

not bad at all...

I'd have given me a flat out ZERO on originality.... but thats what I was sort of shooting for anyway. LOL

GoHuge
05-23-2007, 03:19 PM
You could say the same thing about Philip Rivers last year.Yeah you could have. Until these guys play it's all speculation. I hope the kid is grerat. I'd love every minute of it. I'm rooting for the kid.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 03:30 PM
why would any team expect to be given a Starting QB for less than a 4th?

Trent Green will have to compete to be a starter whether he stays in KC, or goes to Miami. He isn't being GIVEN a starting job anywhere.

In addition, a team would reasonably expect to TRADE FOR a starting QB for less than a 4th round pick when... a FOUR YEARS YOUNGER QB was traded the year before for a 4th round pick.

What justification can you give me for Trent Green being worth a 4th round pick???? Any???? Not one?????

Starting QBs are worth a 4th, period....

a.) Trent Green will have to compete to be a starter whether he stays in KC, or goes to Miami. He isn't being GIVEN a starting job anywhere.

b.) Where is it written that "starting QB's are worth a 4th, period"???? Is that a provision of the CBA???? No??? Part of Goodell's new player behavior program????? No????? OH!! I see!!! It's part of the I'M A FAN, AND FEEL MY TEAM SHOULD BE ABLE TO SCREW OVER ANY OTHERS IN TRADE MATTERS ANYTIME season ticket agreement codocile. Right??? Little known part B of that codocile is the fact that Starting QB's may be worth less than a 4th, when MY team needs one. LOL

for some reason Miami wants their Starting QB for free...

*sigh* good grief.....

Once again.... the New York Jets signing Hicks yesterday was FREE.

You may want more than a 5th or 6th round pick.... but receiving either for Green ISN'T FREE.

god I hope we trade him somewhere else just because their fans are such douchebags

Yeah... and I'm starting to hope we trade Culpepper to the Falcons for a 4th rounder, and STILL only offer a 5th to KC for Green because they have a lot (NOT ALL) of douchebag fans like you! (PLUS, thats his true value).

rad
05-23-2007, 03:42 PM
NO. I don't think that's fair. I think thats equivalent to a 4th round pick, and I think Steve McNair was traded for a 4th round pick when he was FOUR YEARS YOUNGER than Trent Green.



NO. I don't think that's fair. I think Steve McNair was traded for a 4th round pick when he was FOUR YEARS YOUNGER than Trent Green.

BTW - Green Has NOT been promised a starting job in Miami.



I think a 5th round pick is fair... and so do some of your fellow fans.

I think YOU are the disillusioned one, trying desperately to get a little more value than you actually should out of an aging veteran. It's not like Trent didn't leave it all on the field for you.... heck, maybe some brain leakage even last year. lol



MY exact point... YOUR the one who said we wanted Green for free. Now when I give you an example of "FREE" you say the situations aren't similar. Well DUH!!!! Hicks was FREE to New York... Green will bring value (obviously not as much as YOU would like, but he will bring value).

You keep bringing up McNair like he's a comparable QB.......he's not. McNair is overrated and always hurt. Trent has more years in the league, but less milage(games) than McNair. He's started 147 games to Green's 107. That's 2 1/2 seasons worth of games. And in that time, McNair only managed to throw 15 more TD passes to more talented WR's than Trent ever had the opportunity to throw to in KC.

Oh, and don't say Trent has not been promised a starting job in Miami, it only makes you sound stupid. Anyone with half a brain knows what's up.

bobbything
05-23-2007, 03:46 PM
I have a problem with a GM that can't get done what he's said he was going to get done. He gave permission for Green to seek out another team that would be interested in him. And then, once Green found that team, Peterson promised that the deal would get done. It still may get done (albeit not in a timely manner, or in a way that makes anyone happy).

Carl Peterson has a nasty habit of not getting done what he sets out to do. And I don't see any problem with Green calling him out to try and expedite the situation.

I see no reason why Peterson just doesn't accept a 7th round pick for Green and then just jack up ticket/parking prices to make up the difference. Seems like a Peterson-esque move to me.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 03:50 PM
You keep bringing up McNair like he's a comparable QB.......he's not. McNair is overrated and always hurt. Trent has more years in the league, but less milage(games) than McNair. He's started 147 games to Green's 107. That's 2 1/2 seasons worth of games. And in that time, McNair only managed to throw 15 more TD passes to more talented WR's than Trent ever had the opportunity to throw to in KC.

At least this is an argument that makes SOME sense here.

My rebuttal:

1.) The Tennessee Titans offense with Jeff Fischer has ALWAYS been a grind it out - 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offense, featuring Eddie George in it's prime.... and while Kansas City has also featured a strong running game, I think almost any fair minded observer would admit the KC offense was far more wide open than that of the Titans.

2.) The "mileage" claim in games has some merit... but how much merit when your discussing a 37 year old??? Trent Green could play his first game tomorrow, and his age is still only going to allow him to play for so long. At 33, despite more games started... that window is a lot larger for Steve McNair.

Oh, and don't say Trent has not been promised a starting job in Miami, it only makes you sound stupid. Anyone with half a brain knows what's up.

Tell Trent, not me. He stated YESTERDAY, that he wasn't promised a starting job in Miami.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 03:52 PM
Carl Peterson has a nasty habit of not getting done what he sets out to do. And I don't see any problem with Green calling him out to try and expedite the situation.

I honestly thought Green remained pretty classy as well, even though he's obviously upset and chafing to be gone.

I see no reason why Peterson just doesn't accept a 7th round pick for Green and then just jack up ticket/parking prices to make up the difference. Seems like a Peterson-esque move to me.

It's a 6th rounder not 7th. I'd be willing to make that a 5th. But even at 6, thats the same round Tom Brady was drafted in.

HemiEd
05-23-2007, 03:55 PM
No Dolphin players are down at the end of the locker room being crucified that I know of.... seems to be a KC thing. LOL

You didn't appear to be this stupid at first. NOBODY is mistreating Trent Green except the Dolphins. They are the ones leaving him hanging out to dry. Carl Peterson has bent over backwards trying to accomodate Trent Green. Miami is trying to steal a starting QB and they are willing to sacrifice him to do it.

shaneo69
05-23-2007, 03:59 PM
Hicks had no trade value.

Green has AT LEAST some trade value, because the Dolphins have offered as high a 6th rounder for him.

There's no comparison.

You gotta be kidding me. They were able to trade Sims, Tynes, and Dante because these guys were no longer in their plans, yet Carl refuses to do the same for Green?

My god, if the Dolphins are stupid enough to offer a 6th rounder for Green in the hopes that he is still a productive starting QB, take the pick and be glad you got more than a bucket of balls for him.

Sully
05-23-2007, 04:00 PM
Cle-O
Le-Mon


Clap-Clap-clapclapclap

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 04:01 PM
You didn't appear to be this stupid at first. NOBODY is mistreating Trent Green except the Dolphins. They are the ones leaving him hanging out to dry.

First of all, I was making light of the situation by paraphrasing the article about Trent's "crucifixion".

Secondly, the Dolphins don't owe Trent Green anything. He's never put on a Miami uniform... he's never sacrificed his body for a Dolphins victory... he's never been knocked unconscious trying to win a game for the Miami Dolphins.

Miami is simply trying to acquire a QB for fair market value. Fair market value for a QB of Trent's age should be a 5th round pick.

Carl Peterson has bent over backwards trying to accomodate Trent Green. Miami is trying to steal a starting QB and they are willing to sacrifice him to do it.

I'm sorry... I just don't see it that way.

From my view Kansas City is trying to squeeze a little higher value (than what he's legitimately worth) out of a guy whose given them everything he has (including possible brain damage) for a long period of time.... and they are willing to threaten to end Trent's career as a starting QB in the NFL to do it.

bobbything
05-23-2007, 04:02 PM
It's a 6th rounder not 7th. I'd be willing to make that a 5th. But even at 6, thats the same round Tom Brady was drafted in.
Whatever. 6th, 7th.

I'm irritated at both sides here; the Dophins and Chiefs. The Dolphins unwillingness to negotiate and the Chiefs unwillingness to be proactive in getting this done.

A conditional 5th would be fair. Get it done now.

rad
05-23-2007, 04:14 PM
At least this is an argument that makes SOME sense here.

My rebuttal:

1.) The Tennessee Titans offense with Jeff Fischer has ALWAYS been a grind it out - 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offense, featuring Eddie George in it's prime.... and while Kansas City has also featured a strong running game, I think almost any fair minded observer would admit the KC offense was far more wide open than that of the Titans.

True.

2.) The "mileage" claim in games has some merit... but how much merit when your discussing a 37 year old??? Trent Green could play his first game tomorrow, and his age is still only going to allow him to play for so long. At 33, despite more games started... that window is a lot larger for Steve McNair.

Would you rather buy a '95 with 100,000 miles on it or a '93 with 75,000 miles on it that is more COMFORTABLE to drive?



Tell Trent, not me. He stated YESTERDAY, that he wasn't promised a starting job in Miami.

I wasn't promised a piece of ass tonight by my wife, but I know I'm getting some! ;)

HemiEd
05-23-2007, 04:17 PM
I'm sorry... I just don't see it that way.

From my view Kansas City is trying to squeeze a little higher value (than what he's legitimately worth) out of a guy whose given them everything he has (including possible brain damage) for a long period of time.... and they are willing to threaten to end Trent's career as a starting QB in the NFL to do it.

Do you remember the Surtain deal? Miami played serious hard ball on that one, and Carl met their demands. Did they squeeze a little more value out of Surtain than he was worth?
Well, to be totally honest and objective, Willie Roaf ended Trent Greens run at being a starting QB in the NFL when he retired. Like "the Bad Guy" has said on here, many times, TG is a system QB. He was made to look better than he really is, by having a great line.
IMO, Trent should just STFU and let the GMs do their jobs and thank his lucky stars for what he has.
I see no good whatsoever, from him mouthing off to the media. Many better QBs than him, have sat on the bench their last few years.

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2007, 04:26 PM
I know it's hard to accept since so many NFL players seem to care ONLY about money... but some of them actually love to play the game.

To force a guy to sit the bench for the last year or two that he can be a viable starter in the game he loves.........
Its a business, so i really dont care what his feelings are. I have a hard time having sympathy for someone making that much money for doing nothing, if he's not the starter. Trent is the one that said he's been in this business long enough to know how it works. so he can just deal with it.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 04:27 PM
Would you rather buy a '95 with 100,000 miles on it or a '93 with 75,000 miles on it that is more COMFORTABLE to drive?

I hear you... but what if there's a possibility of a recall on the 93 for a "scrambled CPU"??? :) Four years is forever in football terms. 33 is on the edge of old. 37 is just plain old, and emblematic of the NFL acronym. NOT FOR LONG.

I wasn't promised a piece of ass tonight by my wife, but I know I'm getting some! ;)

Not if she happens to read this I bet! LOL

Fruit Ninja
05-23-2007, 04:27 PM
If he's so sure about Miami giving him a contract....

send Wifey and kids down now for an extended Fla Vacation. they might have 2nd thoughts about living there thru 1st Hurricane season.... :)
Exactly, Here is the kicker though. Miami doesnt really want him.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 04:32 PM
Do you remember the Surtain deal? Miami played serious hard ball on that one, and Carl met their demands. Did they squeeze a little more value out of Surtain than he was worth?

For a 29 year old legitimate #1 CB??? And by the way, didn't you guys make us swap 5th rounder's in addition to the 2nd you gave up???

We've (Dolphins) faced Patrick Surtain TWICE in regular season games since the trade. Since Miami and KC don't play in the regular season this year, what are your chances of EVER facing Green in a game???

IMO, Trent should just STFU and let the GMs do their jobs and thank his lucky stars for what he has. I see no good whatsoever, from him mouthing off to the media. Many better QBs than him, have sat on the bench their last few years.

I hear you.... but if you put yourself in his place... 1 or 2 more years in the league max.... no title.... would you want to be a backup when you thought you had a chance to start somewhere else?

I realize Trent didn't spend his whole career in KC.... but Miami offered to let Marino go to Minnesota at the end of his career if he wanted too. I think Huizinga would have tried to stop it if it got that far... but that whole offseason was referred to as "Dan's Decision". He decided to retire.

wockenbauss
05-23-2007, 04:38 PM
Its a business, so i really dont care what his feelings are. I have a hard time having sympathy for someone making that much money for doing nothing, if he's not the starter. Trent is the one that said he's been in this business long enough to know how it works. so he can just deal with it.

When players say its a game.... you guys call it a business. When it's time to get paid and players call it a business... you guys call it a game! LOL

Wasn't that John Matuzack's speech at the end of "North Dallas 40"?? :)

It's both... and if it were just a business, it would have been easy for Trent Green to fall backwards in that Cincinnati game last year for a nice safe sack... rather than scrambling and trying to make something happen (and getting knocked into next week).

Exactly, Here is the kicker though. Miami doesnt really want him.

Why are they continuing to dick around with the deal then??? Excuse my French. :)

Chief Roundup
05-23-2007, 07:56 PM
I have a problem with a GM that can't get done what he's said he was going to get done. He gave permission for Green to seek out another team that would be interested in him. And then, once Green found that team, Peterson promised that the deal would get done. It still may get done (albeit not in a timely manner, or in a way that makes anyone happy).

Carl Peterson has a nasty habit of not getting done what he sets out to do. And I don't see any problem with Green calling him out to try and expedite the situation.

I see no reason why Peterson just doesn't accept a 7th round pick for Green and then just jack up ticket/parking prices to make up the difference. Seems like a Peterson-esque move to me.

Carl didn't tell Green to go out and find only one team. He told him that he could seek A trade not A team. If Green hadn't made it a one man race then we probably would of had a 4th for Green.
What is it with Green and competition?

Rain Man
05-23-2007, 08:28 PM
Trent should sue that Geathers guy.

booger
05-23-2007, 08:36 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned but Waters is the team's NFLPA Union Rep. He really has no choice but to back the player rather than the team managment in this case.

bobbything
05-23-2007, 09:20 PM
Carl didn't tell Green to go out and find only one team. He told him that he could seek A trade not A team. If Green hadn't made it a one man race then we probably would of had a 4th for Green.
This is so far out of whack. Green didn't find ONLY ONE TEAM. It was never just a "one man race."

What happened to Cleveland? Or Detroit? Carl didn't make anything happen there either. Both of those teams were "interested" in Green as well. Miami was the team that had the MOST interested in him and was the one team that made an offer.

Peterson is doing what he always does. He's getting nothing done. He's not proactive in anything other than raising prices after a "winning" season.

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 09:48 PM
Just cracks me up how fickle people are here. When Trent was completely tearing everything up, year before last, you could scarcely find a negative word about him anywhere....everybody was on board with him.

Hey, Trent didn't initiate all of this bull. He deserves to go where he wants and end it however he wants... and he will. And every Chiefs' fan that has watched him prove his ability and durability to the face of the press here when he first came as well as all of the negative crap on the message boards, should shut up. He shut everybody up then. He may do it again and I so seriously hope he does.

htismaqe
05-23-2007, 09:58 PM
Just cracks me up how fickle people are here. When Trent was completely tearing everything up, year before last, you could scarcely find a negative word about him anywhere....everybody was on board with him.

Hey, Trent didn't initiate all of this bull. He deserves to go where he wants and end it however he wants... and he will. And every Chiefs' fan that has watched him prove his ability and durability to the face of the press here when he first came as well as all of the negative crap on the message boards, should shut up. He shut everybody up then. He may do it again and I so seriously hope he does.

NOBODY had a bad word to say about Trent until he opened his mouth.

Period.

bobbything
05-23-2007, 10:01 PM
That's right! When you're a player, and you do everything you can to get out of a situation that's not good for the team or yourself, and nothing gets done, you just sit there and take up the tailpipe.

HemiEd
05-23-2007, 10:03 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned but Waters is the team's NFLPA Union Rep. He really has no choice but to back the player rather than the team managment in this case.

That has tremendous bearing on the subject for me, thanks booger!
Probably the most important post in this thread.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:05 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned but Waters is the team's NFLPA Union Rep. He really has no choice but to back the player rather than the team managment in this case.

Good point, but I can say with pretty high confidence that Waters ain't exactly thrilled with the direction of this team at this point in time.

Of course, if they come out and start winning, I don't expect there to be any locker room problems for the season. Winning has a way of binding a team together and healing hurts. A losing season, on the other hand, is going to cause major issues, especially if the offensive scheme picks up where it left off at the end of last season.

HemiEd
05-23-2007, 10:08 PM
NOBODY had a bad word to say about Trent until he opened his mouth.

Period.

You are correct again. How did that go about he glass houses? :hmmm:

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 10:09 PM
A losing season, on the other hand, is going to cause major issues, especially if the offensive scheme picks up where it left off at the end of last season.

We should be better off without a turnover machine of a quarterback.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:10 PM
We should be better off without a turnover machine of a quarterback.

Har har har. God you're a wishy washy, flip flopping putz.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 10:12 PM
Har har har. God you're a wishy washy, flip flopping putz.

Did I hit a nerve? The fact remains that Green's turnovers at the end of last year were a big reason why the team faded down the stretch. The dude was a liablity.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:12 PM
Did I hit a nerve? The fact remains that Green's turnovers at the end of last year were a big reason why the team faded down the stretch. The dude was a liablity.

Great. Then you should be thrilled that someone wants to take him off your hands.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 10:13 PM
Great. Then you should be thrilled that someone wants to take him off your hands.

I'm just thrilled we're moving on. His time is up. Sad, but life goes on.

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 10:13 PM
NOBODY had a bad word to say about Trent until he opened his mouth.

Period.

Whatever.....there's been a ton of ship jumpers since he came back off of the concussion. It's just gotten worse. What has he said that hasn't been true. He held his peace until it went on too long. He's not going to play for the Chiefs, that's obvious. The longer they hold him, the more problems there's gonna be. He's applying pressure on the front office. They haven't held up their end and he's stepping up and calling them on it.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:18 PM
I'm just thrilled we're moving on. His time is up. Sad, but life goes on.

You have no consistency. I appreciate your work ethic and energy. I just wish you had the character to match it.

KcMizzou
05-23-2007, 10:18 PM
I still respect Trent. Any reasonable fan should. It's sad that this got so messy. When all is said and done... this wont matter.

We'll remember him as one of the best QB's we've ever had. All this garbage is unfortunate.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 10:23 PM
You have no consistency. I appreciate your work ethic and energy. I just wish you had the character to match it.

I don't know what you're talking about. I moved on from Trent Green long ago. Nothing would thrill me more than to see him quarterback the Chiefs to a Super Bowl at age 37, but let's be realistic.

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 10:23 PM
Did I hit a nerve? The fact remains that Green's turnovers at the end of last year were a big reason why the team faded down the stretch. The dude was a liablity.

And again I begin my post....."Whatever"....We were a so much better team the year before last when our offense was slammin and our defense started coming on. We didn't even deserve to be in the playoffs at all last year. Our O-line was our biggest liability all year, and got worse down the stretch. When you have 2.3 seconds after the snap before impact in the backfield, there's gonna be some turnovers.

HemiEd
05-23-2007, 10:26 PM
Whatever.....there's been a ton of ship jumpers since he came back off of the concussion. It's just gotten worse. What has he said that hasn't been true. He held his peace until it went on too long. He's not going to play for the Chiefs, that's obvious. The longer they hold him, the more problems there's gonna be. He's applying pressure on the front office. They haven't held up their end and he's stepping up and calling them on it.


Trent has jumped ship first, a couple of times.

1)He made the mistake of letting it be known, that he did not like how the offense was being run.

(I agreed with him) I think that is really why Herm has decided to move on.
He wants a player that will do what he wants him to do, and be glad for the opportunity. He is making sure this is his team.


2) That first interview a couple weeks ago, turned me clear the **** off.
He was whining about everything, from the competition for the job ,
to Eric Hicks being mis-treated.

He totally sided with the Dolphins on the issue, he is dead in my book.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:26 PM
I don't know what you're talking about. I moved on from Trent Green long ago. Nothing would thrill me more than to see him quarterback the Chiefs to a Super Bowl at age 37, but let's be realistic.

So you want to keep him around instead of letting him go to Miami, just in case? Or do you just like looking at his ass on the sidelines? Oh no! That's right... you want him to retire. Because that would make everything great in the world of GoChiefs. It would be just like Obi Wan. Maybe he could become a hermit in a desert and bash the occasional sandman.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 10:26 PM
That still doesn't explain crap like Green dumping interceptions right into the hands of linebackers with no receiver in sight. The protection wasn't great for Huard but he avoided gifting the other team when he was starting.

Green was under pressure, yeah. That's no excuse for throwing interceptions. Especially in a 0-0 ballgame (Ravens).

Green is done. Finito. I'm not looking forward to the comedy of errors we'll see in Miami next year.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 10:28 PM
So you want to keep him around instead of letting him go to Miami, just in case? Or do you just like looking at his ass on the sidelines? Oh no! That's right... you want him to retire. Because that would make everything great in the world of GoChiefs.

It has nothing to do with me. Do you really think Green's headed for the playoffs in Miami?

Some players have to be dragged out kicking and screaming. It's sad.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:28 PM
Trent has jumped ship first, a couple of times.

1)He made the mistake of letting it be known, that he did not like how the offense was being run. (I agreed with him) I think that is really why Herm has decided to move on. He wants a player that will do what he wants him to do, and be glad for the opportunity. He is making sure this is his team.
2) That first interview a couple weeks ago, turned me clear the **** off. He was whining about everything, from the competition for the job to Eric Hicks being mistreated. He totally sided with the Dolphins on the issue, he is dead in my book.

Trent never, ever said jack shit until the Chiefs made it abundantly clear to the media, fans, and him that they were moving in a different direction. Even then, he didn't say shit, because they said they'd move him. Leading up to the draft, he didn't say shit, because they promised him he'd be moved before it was said and done. He waited a while after the draft. As the situation became more and more desperate, he finally went to the media as a last resort to try to move things along, since all the closed door, "secret" negotiations had just yielded a bunch of BS and false promises.

NewChief
05-23-2007, 10:30 PM
It has nothing to do with me. Do you really think Green's headed for the playoffs in Miami?

No. But I think he gets to finish his career on his terms in a system that he actually believes in and enjoys. The entire reason to keep him around was to mentor another QB into the system that he knows. Since the Chiefs' system is changing into a system that your average peewee QB can understand, there's no reason or satisfaction for him to stick around. At Miami, he gets to potentially start for another year, then mentor a young QB in a system that he knows. You know, the vision that everyone originally had for him finishing his career here.

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 10:32 PM
Trent has jumped ship first, a couple of times.

1)He made the mistake of letting it be known, that he did not like how the offense was being run.

(I agreed with him) I think that is really why Herm has decided to move on.
He wants a player that will do what he wants him to do, and be glad for the opportunity. He is making sure this is his team.


2) That first interview a couple weeks ago, turned me clear the **** off.
He was whining about everything, from the competition for the job ,
to Eric Hicks being mis-treated.

He totally sided with the Dolphins on the issue, he is dead in my book.

So let me get this strait....Anybody who finally steps up and honestly answers the questions that eveybody has been pressing him for for 3 months and how he feels about it is "whining" right?

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 10:35 PM
He's a multi-pro bowler; the most productive quarterback per season that has ever worn a Chiefs uniform....No, he doesn't have to just sit back and say, "Oh cool guys, just do whatever you want with me, I just want to play football."

Guru
05-23-2007, 10:48 PM
Trent has 7.2 million reasons why to not be upset. I dont feel 1 ounce of sympathy for someone that will make that much money. Wow, his family wont get settled in. Big ****ing deal. I dont think my family would mind at all. lol
A-friggin-men!!!!

wazu
05-23-2007, 10:51 PM
The idea that either party is out of bounds here is silly, ChiTown hit the nail on the head. Green is doing what he should do in his position, Carl is doing what he should do, Miami is doing what they should do. Nobody is being a dickwad here. We just get to sit around and wait to see who blinks.

They're all acting like children. Carl has created an offseason mess as usual, and Trent is whining like a bitch when he should be happy to take 7 mill for third string.

Really, Miami is crazy to give up a sixth for Trent. Trent Green has absolutely no future in the NFL. At best he might help some team be mediocre for a year or so. Meanwhile, that team could have been bringing along a QBOTF.

Why would anybody want Green unless they were thinking this was "the year", and their O-line was near-perfect, and something tragic happened to their pocket-passing QB?

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 10:59 PM
But if that were the case, they couldn't find anyone better. He's proven that, eh?

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 11:03 PM
and by the way, they won't pay him 7 mil to play 3rd string. If that were the case, I would smile being a player's coach/3rd string QB. Heck, pay me 3 million to have the absolute best seat in the house to watch the NFL, tha' b alright. They will release him just before the preseason. Trent knows it and has to get ready to play for the next team. This is wasting time for him and everybody. Carl is just trying to let everybody know that he's calling the shots. OK, Carl. We get the point, you're smarter than all of us, you're prettier than all of us, you're funnier than all of us...now move on.

bigbucks24
05-23-2007, 11:04 PM
They're all acting like children. Carl has created an offseason mess as usual, and Trent is whining like a bitch when he should be happy to take 7 mill for third string.

Really, Miami is crazy to give up a sixth for Trent. Trent Green has absolutely no future in the NFL. At best he might help some team be mediocre for a year or so. Meanwhile, that team could have been bringing along a QBOTF.

Why would anybody want Green unless they were thinking this was "the year", and their O-line was near-perfect, and something tragic happened to their pocket-passing QB?
Whilst I agree with most of your post, I really don't think the option of getting $7.2 to be a 3rd stringer is real. I honestly don't think that is going to happen. Did Carl say it might? He said it, but I don't believe it. Is he lying? Let's just say I think he is posturing. As has been said, Carl is looking out for the Chiefs. Randy is looking out for the Dolphins. And Trent is looking out for Trent. No one is the villian here. And the only people that can't see it are the people that are so blinded by sports passion that they can't look at this logically and unemotionally.

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Whilst I agree with most of your post, I really don't think the option of getting $7.2 to be a 3rd stringer is real. I honestly don't think that is going to happen. Did Carl say it might? He said it, but I don't believe it. Is he lying? Let's just say I think he is posturing. As has been said, Carl is looking out for the Chiefs. Randy is looking out for the Dolphins. And Trent is looking out for Trent. No one is the villian here. And the only people that can't see it are the people that are so blinded by sports passion that they can't look at this logically and unemotionally.

smart post of the day....excellent.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 11:07 PM
and by the way, they won't pay him 7 mil to play 3rd string. If that were the case, I would smile being a player's coach/3rd string QB. Heck, pay me 3 million to have the absolute best seat in the house to watch the NFL, tha' b alright. They will release him just before the preseason. Trent knows it and has to get ready to play for the next team. This is wasting time for him and everybody. Carl is just trying to let everybody know that he's calling the shots. OK, Carl. We get the point, you're smarter than all of us, you're prettier than all of us, you're funnier than all of us...now move on.

What is your relationship with Trent Green?

wazu
05-23-2007, 11:09 PM
Whilst I agree with most of your post, I really don't think the option of getting $7.2 to be a 3rd stringer is real. I honestly don't think that is going to happen. Did Carl say it might? He said it, but I don't believe it. Is he lying? Let's just say I think he is posturing. As has been said, Carl is looking out for the Chiefs. Randy is looking out for the Dolphins. And Trent is looking out for Trent. No one is the villian here. And the only people that can't see it are the people that are so blinded by sports passion that they can't look at this logically and unemotionally.

So what? If Carl is bluffing, then Trent gets cut or traded anyway and he still gets what he wants?

NEWSFLASH TRENT: What's best for your family is you not suffering another massive concussion. If Carl is stupid enough to pay you 7 million to ride the pine you should take it. If he trades you or cuts you, then you get what you want anyway so quit crying.

Count Alex's Losses
05-23-2007, 11:11 PM
This is actually similar to how Terrell Owens behaved. He wouldn't accept a trade to the Baltimore Ravens. Trent won't accept a trade to anyone but Miami, apparently.

KCBOSS1
05-23-2007, 11:12 PM
What is your relationship with Trent Green?

I've never met him.

booger
05-23-2007, 11:18 PM
That has tremendous bearing on the subject for me, thanks booger!
Probably the most important post in this thread.
:thumb:

bigbucks24
05-23-2007, 11:36 PM
So what? If Carl is bluffing, then Trent gets cut or traded anyway and he still gets what he wants?

NEWSFLASH TRENT: What's best for your family is you not suffering another massive concussion. If Carl is stupid enough to pay you 7 million to ride the pine you should take it. If he trades you or cuts you, then you get what you want anyway so quit crying.
I guess this is where you and I disagree. I do not think there is anyway on God's green earth that Trent Green get's paid his full $7.2 million salary to be the 3rd string QB. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Just my opinion.

If Trent gets cut or traded soon, he gets what he wants. If the Chiefs decide to hold him until tha last possible second (their right), he doesn't get what he wants. Crying? Don't know if he's crying or expressing his frustration. Should he have gone public? He sure waited a long time to do so. Maybe he figures this is the only way to speed things along. As has been said many times, Trent is looking out for Trent. Which is ok because Carl is looking out for the Chiefs and Randy is looking out for the Dolphins. If anyone on here claims they would try to hurt their future employer to help their current employer that doesn't want them, I call BS.

booger
05-23-2007, 11:39 PM
Good point, but I can say with pretty high confidence that Waters ain't exactly thrilled with the direction of this team at this point in time.

Of course, if they come out and start winning, I don't expect there to be any locker room problems for the season. Winning has a way of binding a team together and healing hurts. A losing season, on the other hand, is going to cause major issues, especially if the offensive scheme picks up where it left off at the end of last season.


Direction of the team? Or the offense. Special teams outside of who the KR will be and the overhaul of the defense have to have everyone excited. Especially the D. Maybe not excited but sure as heck not a negative outlook.

The offense? Sure, i could see that. Anytime you have a potential upcoming season with a kid like Croyle with very little experience the vets are probably skeptical. Gonzo mentioned earlier this offseason on NFLN's total access he didn't see green coming back and was good with Huard. While he didn't even mention Croyle he sure didn't seem upset about Trent either.

I guess i am going back to Trent's interview w/ KK. He said the veterans on the team are confused with the direction of the offense/team, can't remember which he used. But I don't see any articles out there to back that up. I sure could have missed them though.

Eddie Kennison, obviously close with Trent and a DV guy as much as any, didn't seem worried when he was interviewed after the draft.

So we've got Waters ( who if you could expand on his unhappiness that would be great ) and Weigmann who was rumored to be considering retiring before he and his agent plus CP stated he would be expected back.

I don't see much evidance to support this.

I am also assuming that out of a earned respect and friendship, they are venting these things privately in a natural matter that would support Trent. I wouldn't expect they would talk much football if his soon to be ex teamates told him things were great and I can't wait to snap the ball to the rookie QB.

Mecca
05-23-2007, 11:53 PM
It's nice to see that we have other players on our team pretty much saying the organization is ****ing Green over.......

Just what we need...

BigMeatballDave
05-24-2007, 01:37 AM
He's a multi-pro bowler; the most productive quarterback per season that has ever worn a Chiefs uniform....No, he doesn't have to just sit back and say, "Oh cool guys, just do whatever you want with me, I just want to play football."Trent is being a baby. Plain and simple. Its funny when I player bolts from a team they say, "This is the nature of the business", when it goes their way. Trent wanted a trade, CP gave him permission to seek one. It hasn't materialized. Trent should be pissed at Miami. Must not want him too badly. Its Carl's job to get the best deal. I bash Carl quite a bit, but I do not place the blame on him this time.

ClevelandBronco
05-24-2007, 01:40 AM
...Trent wanted a trade,...

That's only a partial truth. It looks like the Chiefs wanted a trade just as much as Trent did.

BigMeatballDave
05-24-2007, 01:46 AM
Trent never, ever said jack shit until the Chiefs made it abundantly clear to the media, fans, and him that they were moving in a different direction. Even then, he didn't say shit, because they said they'd move him. Leading up to the draft, he didn't say shit, because they promised him he'd be moved before it was said and done. He waited a while after the draft. As the situation became more and more desperate, he finally went to the media as a last resort to try to move things along, since all the closed door, "secret" negotiations had just yielded a bunch of BS and false promises.IF NO ONE IS OFFERING ANYTHING WORTH TRADING, WHY SHOULD CARL JUST TAKE WHAT IS OFFERED? IT IS CARLS JOB TO GET THE BEST DEAL. DUH!
:rolleyes:

BigMeatballDave
05-24-2007, 01:48 AM
That's only a partial truth. It looks like the Chiefs wanted a trade just as much as Trent did.Well, yeah. They wanted to move in a different direction. Still, CP shouldn't just take what is offered.

ClevelandBronco
05-24-2007, 01:57 AM
Well, yeah. They wanted to move in a different direction. Still, CP shouldn't just take what is offered.

Agreed, but here's the problem: A thing is worth only what a buyer is willing to give for it.

In other words, if I own a painting that I think is worth $50 million even though a buyer is only willing to give $20 million, then the fact of the matter is that I have a $20 million painting.

Sellers can only suggest prices. Buyers always set real prices. Sellers never have that power.

That said, I'll stick by my opinion that the Dolphins will cave first. I still think that will happen.

Saggysack
05-24-2007, 02:08 AM
The Jets signing Hicks yesterday... THATS FREE!

The Jets were cheated.

BigMeatballDave
05-24-2007, 02:19 AM
The Jets were cheated.
:)

HemiEd
05-24-2007, 07:22 AM
So let me get this strait....Anybody who finally steps up and honestly answers the questions that eveybody has been pressing him for for 3 months and how he feels about it is "whining" right?

Did you listen to his press conference? He WAS whining.

If he would have stayed "true to form" as to the leadedrship, he as established since he has been a Chief, he would have kept his mouth shut. At the very least he would not have been negative in regards to the Chiefs.

htismaqe
05-24-2007, 09:04 AM
Whatever.....there's been a ton of ship jumpers since he came back off of the concussion. It's just gotten worse. What has he said that hasn't been true. He held his peace until it went on too long. He's not going to play for the Chiefs, that's obvious. The longer they hold him, the more problems there's gonna be. He's applying pressure on the front office. They haven't held up their end and he's stepping up and calling them on it.

ROFL

You're trying to mix Trent Green, the QB, with Trent Green, the HUMAN BEING.

Lots of people wanted him to be benched after the concussion, some because they were concerned he wouldn't be the same (incidentally, they were 100% correct) and some because they felt you should stay with Huard and his hot hand.

That has NOTHING AT ALL to do with what's going on now.

Even the people that thought Trent should be the starter the minute he came back from his injury, me included, have had their perception of Trent Green, GOOD human being, tainted by the fact that he's coming off like a spoiled, rotten baby.

htismaqe
05-24-2007, 09:09 AM
Did you listen to his press conference? He WAS whining.

If he would have stayed "true to form" as to the leadedrship, he as established since he has been a Chief, he would have kept his mouth shut. At the very least he would not have been negative in regards to the Chiefs.

I don't even care that he said negative things about the front office and management, it's to be expected.

But he proved to me that he's NO leader the day he said that the reason the Chiefs want to get younger is because the young guys won't question the head coach's moves.

Leaders don't call out young players and call them naive.

Bitter people that know they're washed up DO.

the Talking Can
05-24-2007, 09:16 AM
Even the people that thought Trent should be the starter the minute he came back from his injury, me included, have had their perception of Trent Green, GOOD human being, tainted by the fact that he's coming off like a spoiled, rotten baby.

I fall into that category...I argued my ass off for him to be the starter last year, so I don't want to hear any "fans are so ungrateful" crap from anyone...

he is STILL one of my favorite Chiefs....but he is using Carl's reputation to negotiate a sweet deal for Miami and pretending that he (Trent) is just a naive, innocent guy, above all that business stuff - NONSENSE...and even though I don't like Carl, I can not blame him for this...any of it

his job now is to get value for a player that still has value...Trent's feelings and opinions are of no concern to me or, I hope, Carl...

Messier
05-24-2007, 09:19 AM
I don't even care that he said negative things about the front office and management, it's to be expected.

But he proved to me that he's NO leader the day he said that the reason the Chiefs want to get younger is because the young guys won't question the head coach's moves.

Leaders don't call out young players and call them naive.

Bitter people that know they're washed up DO.


True, I used to hold Green in high regard, but recent events have totally changed how I feel. His recent comments are good for nothing more that to say poor me. Really, what is the desired effect he wants? This wouldn't make the Chiefs work harder. No, the only effect this has, and he knows it, is that now he's seen as a victim.

HemiEd
05-24-2007, 09:32 AM
I don't even care that he said negative things about the front office and management, it's to be expected.

But he proved to me that he's NO leader the day he said that the reason the Chiefs want to get younger is because the young guys won't question the head coach's moves.

Leaders don't call out young players and call them naive.

Bitter people that know they're washed up DO.

Good point! I, like a lot of others, are measuring him against his own standards, he has set over the years. He has come well short of measuring up lately.

I would not be a bit shocked hearing this kind of stuff from a lot of other players, I would expect it. But not from somebody I had viewed as a true leader.

Direckshun
05-24-2007, 09:37 AM
This shit gets me angrier by the day.

Green's acting like TO.

King_Chief_Fan
05-24-2007, 09:40 AM
I fall into that category...I argued my ass off for him to be the starter last year, so I don't want to hear any "fans are so ungrateful" crap from anyone...

he is STILL one of my favorite Chiefs....but he is using Carl's reputation to negotiate a sweet deal for Miami and pretending that he (Trent) is just a naive, innocent guy, above all that business stuff - NONSENSE...and even though I don't like Carl, I can not blame him for this...any of it

his job now is to get value for a player that still has value...Trent's feelings and opinions are of no concern to me or, I hope, Carl...

CP is in a no win situation. I find it somewhat concerning that the players, according to Green, reflect this situation as if it might impact them in the future. GM has to do what he thinks is best for the team. I will be more anxious to see how the LJ contract situation runs it course than I am with a QB that no longer fits the offensive scheme. Trent knows he can't run the new offense. The offense is being built around LJ, and Gonzo. That is Herm's choice and CP is trying to manage to the efforts of Herm (as it should be)

htismaqe
05-24-2007, 09:41 AM
This shit gets me angrier by the day.

Green's acting like TO.

I wouldn't go THAT far.

keg in kc
05-24-2007, 09:44 AM
Trent doesn't look bitter or vindictive to me. He looks like someone who's throwing a tantrum because things didn't go his way. Like someone who's developed a sense of entitlement after the tens of millions of dollars he's received from the franchise. Like someone who doesn't understand that a trade may not happen even when a team is willing to do it. Like someone who doesn't understand that the Chiefs are no more culpable for the failure than are the Dullfins.

In other words, he looks selfish and clueless.

Poor ending for Trent in Kansas City, and he has nobody to blame but himself.

Chiefnj
05-24-2007, 10:00 AM
Trent knows he can't run the new offense.

I'm pretty sure Trent can run a play book that consists of handing off on 1st and 2nd down and getting sacked on 3rd and long.

booger
05-24-2007, 01:49 PM
In other words, he looks selfish and clueless.

Poor ending for Trent in Kansas City, and he has nobody to blame but himself.

Yep. He can also blame his agent. From the start of this Miami seemed like it was a fact he could be had for a late RD pick. That has been the miami media's stance from the get go. That sure wasn't leaked from the chiefs. Proving once again it isn't smart to negotiate w/ carl through the media.

Also Ironic that Steiner got Green to KC while another of his clients, Grbac was cut with a big roster bonus.