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Wile_E_Coyote
05-25-2007, 07:29 PM
According to NFL Total Access: the Fins have upped their offer from a 6th to a 6th or conditional 5th rounder. The conditions that need to be met to make it a 5th rounder was not mentioned.

Hell, it could be if Trent is Super Bowl MVP in '07 they up it to a 5th :shrug:

siberian khatru
05-25-2007, 07:30 PM
I don't know if they blinked, but their eyelids appear to be fluttering.

The Bad Guy
05-25-2007, 07:31 PM
They should condition it to a 4th with a 5th and then I'd be interested.The Chiefs should be in zero hurry to get this done.

Mojo Rising
05-25-2007, 07:36 PM
What part of 4th Round draft pick do they not understand?

Wile_E_Coyote
05-25-2007, 07:40 PM
make it a solid 5th rounder & get it over with IMO. Conditional 4th would be icing

el borracho
05-25-2007, 07:41 PM
They can "up their offer" up their asses. It should have been a 4th this year, now they would need to give us a 3rd next year.

58-4ever
05-25-2007, 07:43 PM
How generous. This Trent Green thing is about as tiring as the Ty Law threads of yesteryear.

tiptap
05-25-2007, 07:50 PM
If this had gotten done before this years draft we might have looked to move up to get someone. That option was lost to us. There is little incentive now to move Trent. This seasons wranglings are over for the most part. And it is all lost practice time to the Dophins with no real cost to the Chiefs until nearer the season as far as Green's salary.

I'm not saying we should just be mean about it. But I seem to remember a certain team being somewhat hard about a certain CB a few years ago. What goes around comes around.

Baconeater
05-25-2007, 07:52 PM
**** you Miami.

chiefbowe82
05-25-2007, 08:33 PM
damn miami, the only way to be dumber is to be bigger.

the Talking Can
05-25-2007, 08:38 PM
what a ****ing joke...

I expect 50 threads, 5 Whitlock columns, and 2 Miami fans blaming Carl....

Micjones
05-25-2007, 08:43 PM
Is getting a 4th Round pick 3 weeks from now worth the distraction?

HemiEd
05-25-2007, 08:44 PM
I think this is a good sign, at least they are still breathing.

Mr. Laz
05-25-2007, 08:51 PM
they can eat a bag of dicks with that offer


you want to talk conditional ..... then make that dam thing really conditional.

if Trent Green starts 50% of your games the price goes from 6th to a 4th.

if Trent Green starts 80% of your games the price goes for a 6th to a 3rd.

if you make the playoffs with Trent Green as your starting QB then it goes up to a 2nd rounder.

if you make the playoffs and Green throws for 3500+ yards then it's a 1st rounder.


bitches 4321

Mr. Laz
05-25-2007, 08:52 PM
Is getting a 4th Round pick 3 weeks from now worth the distraction?
hell yes

Count Zarth
05-25-2007, 08:57 PM
Excellent. Carl will milk them for all it's worth now that he knows they will budge. Cleary they're getting desperate.

SNR
05-25-2007, 09:01 PM
They've been naughty boys, haven't they, Mr. Flibble? I think this warrants two hours without oxygen. No oxygen for two hours. That will teach them to be breadbaskets.

SNR
05-25-2007, 09:02 PM
Excellent. Carl will milk them for all it's worth now that he knows they will budge. Cleary they're getting desperate.I understand dolphins are mammals, but do you really think dolphin milk is a good idea?

Mr. Laz
05-25-2007, 09:02 PM
Excellent. Carl will milk them for all it's worth now that he knows they will budge. Cleary they're getting desperate.


http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/h0/h2255.jpg

Count Zarth
05-25-2007, 09:04 PM
Carl should tell Mueller he's considering the offer and he'll get back to him.

Then wait for two weeks and do nothing. Let them eat static.

Mark M
05-25-2007, 09:51 PM
they can eat a bag of dicks with that offer


you want to talk conditional ..... then make that dam thing really conditional.

if Trent Green starts 50% of your games the price goes from 6th to a 4th.

if Trent Green starts 80% of your games the price goes for a 6th to a 3rd.

if you make the playoffs with Trent Green as your starting QB then it goes up to a 2nd rounder.

if you make the playoffs and Green throws for 3500+ yards then it's a 1st rounder.


bitches 4321

I've been advocating that since the start of the whole thing.

Although I'd make the 1st round conditional on a Super Bowl appearance. Other than that, right on.

MM
~~:thumb:

Guru
05-25-2007, 09:56 PM
they can eat a bag of dicks with that offer


you want to talk conditional ..... then make that dam thing really conditional.

if Trent Green starts 50% of your games the price goes from 6th to a 4th.

if Trent Green starts 80% of your games the price goes for a 6th to a 3rd.

if you make the playoffs with Trent Green as your starting QB then it goes up to a 2nd rounder.

if you make the playoffs and Green throws for 3500+ yards then it's a 1st rounder.


bitches 4321

I like the way you think.

pikesome
05-25-2007, 09:59 PM
they can eat a bag of dicks with that offer


you want to talk conditional ..... then make that dam thing really conditional.

if Trent Green starts 50% of your games the price goes from 6th to a 4th.

if Trent Green starts 80% of your games the price goes for a 6th to a 3rd.

if you make the playoffs with Trent Green as your starting QB then it goes up to a 2nd rounder.

if you make the playoffs and Green throws for 3500+ yards then it's a 1st rounder.


bitches 4321

They should have stuck your name in that GM poll. You'd beat Marty and DV easily (then again so would pond scum but...). :)

Direckshun
05-25-2007, 11:06 PM
Of course, it depends on the conditions.

If Carl likes what he sees, go for it.

wazu
05-25-2007, 11:18 PM
Sounds like Carl has one final chance to save face. Maybe it'll work.

beer bacon
05-25-2007, 11:35 PM
Is getting a 4th Round pick 3 weeks from now worth the distraction?

We better get this done quickly. The football season is only four months away!

greg63
05-25-2007, 11:38 PM
How generous. This Trent Green thing is about as tiring as the Ty Law threads of yesteryear.

Agreed!

Direckshun
05-25-2007, 11:45 PM
I've been thinking about it.

Chiefs get a 6th rounder that turns into a 5th would actually be fair if any of the following occur:

Green throws for 3500+ yards.
Green throws for 23+ TDs.
Dolpins finish above .500 on the year.
Green plays 16 games, every down for the Dolpins in '07.
Green ever earns Offensive POTW or Pro Bowl honors.
Dolphins finish in the Top 12 in the NFL in passing offense.
Green's completion percentage is above 65%.

unothadeal
05-25-2007, 11:52 PM
Green plays 16 games, every down for the Dolpins in '07.
What if Miami pulls him on the final play of the season?

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:01 AM
What if Miami pulls him on the final play of the season?
Shrug.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:10 AM
Does everyone realize that next year's 5th is the equivalent of this past year's 6th which we declined? Actually, it could potentially be worse, depending on the Dolphins record this year. Why would we accept less now than the offer we didn't accept a few weeks ago?

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:11 AM
Does everyone realize that next year's 5th is the equivalent of this past year's 6th which we declined? Actually, it could potentially be worse, depending on the Dolphins record this year.
I don't follow.

keg in kc
05-26-2007, 12:12 AM
So essentially they haven't upped their offer since the beginning, since a 6th in '08 is considered to be the equivalent of the 7th they offered from this year's draft.

Offer a 4th or play without him...

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:13 AM
So essentially they haven't upped their offer since the beginning, since a 6th in '08 is considered to be the equivalent of the 7th they offered from this year's draft.
I don't follow.

keg in kc
05-26-2007, 12:17 AM
S.O.P. in calculating trade values: draft picks offereed from future drafts are calculated as if they're a round lower than if they were current/recent picks.

i.e. a 2nd in '08 carries the value of a 3rd from '07, and so forth.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:18 AM
Future draft picks are less valuable than current draft picks. A 2008 5th round pick is roughly equivalent to a 2007 6th.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:19 AM
Keg = quicker than me.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:23 AM
i.e. a 2nd in '08 carries the value of a 3rd from '07
Why?

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:27 AM
Because you don't get it until later.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:28 AM
Because you don't get it until later.
**** it, you get it when you get it.

You knock a future pick's value down because of impatience?

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:30 AM
Hmm... you've gone from Donger to one of those posters with numbers in their usernames.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:32 AM
Hmm... you've gone from Donger to one of those posters with numbers in their usernames.
Well I guess I just don't get it.

Especially since '08 is the most current Draft ahead -- seems to me like it's the same value.

Doesn't make sense to me that it's less value.

PastorMikH
05-26-2007, 12:34 AM
FWIW, I wished Green were as interested in proving to the new staff in KC that he's still the best QB and deserves to start as he is in trying to convincing KC to let him go. I can't help but wonder if he feels he may not be able to beat out Croyle for the spot and doesn't want to lose out to a kid.


I just bought a Taylormade R7 driver and hit the ball great with it. But just because I have it doesn't mean I plan on just giving my Calloway Big Bertha Hawkeye driver away to any bum that asks. Even if I never carry the thing again it's worth something to me just to keep around in case the new driver breaks or something.

I see the same thing with Green. He still has value to us even if he is on the shelf, there's no point in basically just giving him away to a bum that's asking.


I've been a Green supporter all along, but at this point I am more dissapointed in Green and the way he's acting and glad Carl is willing to play hard ball.

Frankie
05-26-2007, 12:35 AM
make it a solid 5th rounder & get it over with IMO. Conditional 4th would be icing
A conditional 5th with conditions that can elevate it to a 3rd. After all, 08's 3rd is like an 07 4th. And no, the condition for a 3rd should not be "winning the Superbowl." That kind of thing is a condition for a 1st.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:36 AM
The Dolphins want Green to play for them in 2007. They want to compensate the Chiefs with a future pick (2008). It is essentially a loan so we are going to charge them interest in the form of a higher pick. Why would we give them a loan and not charge them interest?

Phobia
05-26-2007, 12:36 AM
I just bought a Taylormade R7 driver and hit the ball great with it. But just because I have it doesn't mean I plan on just giving my Calloway Big Bertha Hawkeye driver away to any bum that asks. Even if I never carry the thing again it's worth something to me just to keep around in case the new driver breaks or something.

I see the same thing with Green. He still has value to us even if he is on the shelf, there's no point in basically just giving him away to a bum that's asking.
I will give you Trent Green for your Hawkeye driver.

PastorMikH
05-26-2007, 12:38 AM
I will give you Trent Green for your Hawkeye driver.


Trent Green as in net worth or current market value?

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:40 AM
The Dolphins want Green to play for them in 2007. They want to compensate the Chiefs with a future pick (2008). It is essentially a loan so we are going to charge them interest in the form of a higher pick. Why would we give them a loan and not charge them interest?
I don't liken it to a loan.

A 6th round pick in 2007 would have roughly the same degree of likelihood to pan out as a 6th round pick in any other year.

I don't understand why we're incorporating things into it like "interest."

Phobia
05-26-2007, 12:41 AM
Trent Green as in net worth or current market value?
Just give me the stupid club. :cuss:

Guru
05-26-2007, 12:41 AM
Trent Green as in net worth or current market value?
If either one comes to $500, he will take that one.

PastorMikH
05-26-2007, 12:41 AM
I will give you Trent Green for your Hawkeye driver.


Actually, this Talyormade is quite remarkable. It has the weight inserts to compensate. I am rather proficient at slicing. But more weight at the heel of the club and I can over-swing and rip the ball hard and it goes straight - I'm back to pushing the 300 yard barrier with it. With most drivers the ball would be slicing so hard that it would end up behind me if I tried to hit like that.

To top it off, I got the club for right at $100 off of ebay.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:43 AM
I don't liken it to a loan.

A 6th round pick in 2007 would have roughly the same degree of likelihood to pan out as a 6th round pick in any other year.

I don't understand why we're incorporating things into it like "interest."
How far would that extend? Would you be ok giving them Trent Green in 2007 for a 2050 6th round pick?

Phobia
05-26-2007, 12:43 AM
I don't liken it to a loan.

A 6th round pick in 2007 would have roughly the same degree of likelihood to pan out as a 6th round pick in any other year.

I don't understand why we're incorporating things into it like "interest."

Because that's common practice in the NFL. There's no telling what the depth of a draft is going to be year to year and there's a certain element of risk based upon how a team is going to finish the year. What if you're trading with a team like Chicago who typically drafts high in the rounds but then the blow up in 2008? It's a gamble and that's why they do that - protect their butts when trading for unknown commodities.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:47 AM
How far would that extend? Would you be ok giving them Trent Green in 2007 for a 2050 6th round pick?
Touche.

I shall leave the room now, and return with my pants reinstated around my waist.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 12:50 AM
I'm back.

So yeah, those beach bumming bastards! Grrr! We're losing value!

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:56 AM
It's actually amusing if one can be detatched for a moment-

Carl asked for a 4th in 2007- the Dolphins decline so Carl asked for a 6th and a swap of 3rds in 2007 (which nearly equals the 2007 4th the Dolphins already declined).

The Dolphins offer a 6th in 2007- Carl declines so the Dolphins "up" their offer to a conditional 5th in 2008 (nearly equal in value to the 2007 6th that Carl had already declined).

Fun game, huh?

booger
05-26-2007, 01:00 AM
or because Trent will contribute to Miami this year. Our future pick will not.

For the kids that ride the little short bus.




:)

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 01:02 AM
It's actually amusing if one can be detatched for a moment-

Carl asked for a 4th in 2007- the Dolphins decline so Carl asked for a 6th and a swap of 3rds in 2007 (which nearly equals the 2007 4th the Dolphins already declined).

The Dolphins offer a 6th in 2007- Carl declines so the Dolphins "up" their offer to a conditional 5th in 2008 (nearly equal in value to the 2007 6th that Carl had already declined).

Fun game, huh?
Ugh.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 01:04 AM
I'm actually starting to think this deal won't go down at all. The Dolphins don't seem very serious.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 01:06 AM
I think the Dolphins are counting on us cutting him.

Which we will.

And they'll get him.

And we'll all live in a pineapple under the sea.

the Talking Can
05-26-2007, 05:48 AM
The Dolphins want Green to play for them in 2007. They want to compensate the Chiefs with a future pick (2008). It is essentially a loan so we are going to charge them interest in the form of a higher pick. Why would we give them a loan and not charge them interest?

I will gladly pay you a 7th on Tuesday for a veteran starting QB today!

you're exactly right...the reality is that they're still offering a 6th, which is still an insult, and they're still assholes...

I'm starting to hope we don't trade him to Miami.

the Talking Can
05-26-2007, 05:59 AM
food for thought, this is probably the same deal we got for RYAN SIMS......

which should put things in perspective

old_geezer
05-26-2007, 06:07 AM
Thread title should read "The Dolphins...............Up Theirs"

Green is worth more to us riding the pine and providing insurance in case Croyle doesn't pan out or gets hurt than a 6th round draft choice. Screw Miami and who gives a big rat's ass if Green isn't happy.

htismaqe
05-26-2007, 06:24 AM
I think the Dolphins are counting on us cutting him.

Which we will.

And they'll get him.

And we'll all live in a pineapple under the sea.

I wouldn't be so sure that we will cut him. They might keep him to force his hand, causing him to not report or retire.

Wile_E_Coyote
05-26-2007, 07:08 AM
If Croyle flops, that 2008 6th rounder we got from the Fins for Trent. Will get us a starting QB for the '08 season. I mean if the fish can do it so can the Chiefs. Right?

unlurking
05-26-2007, 08:09 AM
food for thought, this is probably the same deal we got for RYAN SIMS......

which should put things in perspective
ouch

el borracho
05-26-2007, 08:14 AM
food for thought, this is probably the same deal we got for RYAN SIMS......

which should put things in perspective
Do we actually know what we got for Sims or are you just speculating?

htismaqe
05-26-2007, 08:17 AM
Do we actually know what we got for Sims or are you just speculating?

It's never been OFFICIALLY confirmed, but most reports say it was a conditional 7th-round pick.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 08:20 AM
A conditional 7th? That's like nothing at all. IIRC, we got more for R-Kal Truluk.

Fly O.T. McWall
05-26-2007, 08:34 AM
A conditional 7th? That's like nothing at all. IIRC, we got more for R-Kal Truluk.
R-Kal at least had a cool name.

the Talking Can
05-26-2007, 09:10 AM
If Croyle flops, that 2008 6th rounder we got from the Fins for Trent. Will get us a starting QB for the '08 season. I mean if the fish can do it so can the Chiefs. Right?

that's right...and Whitlock, Mecca, Dolphins fans, everyone will wage a jihad of condemnation against the team that refuses us our RIGHT to a starting QB for a 6th....

it will be headline news on ESPN....


of course, in the real world, the same people blaming Carl now will blame for offering such a low price... "How dare he expect a QB for a 6th!" Whitlock's column will read...."Typical Carl" Mecca will post....."Outrageous" from all the Dolphin fans....

the Talking Can
05-26-2007, 09:12 AM
Do we actually know what we got for Sims or are you just speculating?

I just know it is conditional...7 to a 6, 6 to a 5....not much difference, yet we're talking about a bust who has been a joke, and a Starting QB

Mr. Laz
05-26-2007, 09:20 AM
I think the Dolphins are counting on us cutting him.

Which we will.

And they'll get him.

And we'll all live in a pineapple under the sea.
then they can get him at 11:59 the night before the season starts


we'll see how much value he loses to them when he hasn't practiced a single rep with them.

the Talking Can
05-26-2007, 09:30 AM
then they can get him at 11:59 the night before the season starts


we'll see how much value he loses to them when he hasn't practiced a single rep with them.


it doesn't matter, because according to Dolphin fans he is going to be Cleo Lemon's backup... ROFL

wazu
05-26-2007, 09:37 AM
If Croyle flops, that 2008 6th rounder we got from the Fins for Trent. Will get us a starting QB for the '08 season. I mean if the fish can do it so can the Chiefs. Right?

Probably. I'll bet we could actually get Trent Green himself back by that point for free.

Mr. Laz
05-26-2007, 09:38 AM
it doesn't matter, because according to Dolphin fans he is going to be Cleo Lemon's backup... ROFL
word is that the Dolphins are going to cut Culpepper if/when they get Trent Green.

Then Oakland is gonna sign Culpepper to help take the pressure off of their rookie.


1. does culpepper have any bonus money coming that would put pressure on the dolphins to cut him sooner?

2. doesn't delaying the Green trade actually hurt the faiders as well?

keg in kc
05-26-2007, 09:39 AM
I don't think the assumption that we'll cut Green is a valid one. We might not want to pay his 7.2 million salary, but that in no way means that we won't do it if the right offer isn't made.

And, as laz points out, the thing to note is that it is salary, and not a roster bonus, which means there's no deadline as far as KC is concerned. We don't have to do it by June 1. We don't have to do it in August. We can hold Green right up to the final cutdown day in September and then still have his number off the books, if we do intend to release him.

It's a game of chicken, and we have absolutely no incentive to blink.

OnTheWarpath58
05-26-2007, 09:41 AM
word is that the Dolphins are going to cut Culpepper if/when they get Trent Green.

Then Oakland is gonna sign Culpepper to help take the pressure off of their rookie.


1. does culpepper have any bonus money coming that would put pressure on the dolphins to cut him sooner?

2. doesn't delaying the Green trade actually hurt the faiders as well?

Oakland traded for Josh McCown, they probably don't have the interest in Culpepper anymore......

JMO.

Mr. Laz
05-26-2007, 09:43 AM
Oakland traded for Josh McCown, they probably don't have the interest in Culpepper anymore......

JMO.
ahh ... ok

darn, i had hoped we were screwing with the faiders too. :(

Sure-Oz
05-26-2007, 09:51 AM
Good, atleast they are doing something, milk it carl

Coogs
05-26-2007, 10:09 AM
Take the deal and move on. Time to start worring about our own football team and move on. Time for this to be Croyles team... for better or worse this next season. It is a late round draft choice we are haggling over here, not a top first day pick.

Do the deal.... move on.

milkman
05-26-2007, 10:22 AM
Take the deal and move on. Time to start worring about our own football team and move on. Time for this to be Croyles team... for better or worse this next season. It is a late round draft choice we are haggling over here, not a top first day pick.

Do the deal.... move on.

There's a difference between a conditional 6th, or even 5th, round pick, and a 4th round pick, especially if the Dolphins finish 3rd or last in that division, which is a very good possibility, even with Green.

Coogs
05-26-2007, 10:26 AM
There's a difference between a conditional 6th, or even 5th, round pick, and a 4th round pick, especially if the Dolphins finish 3rd or last in that division, which is a very good possibility, even with Green.


I know. But it is not like this very draft pick we are haggling over is going to turn out to be a HOF player and the final piece to building a Super Bowl team in KC anyway.

Time to give next years team a true sense of direction. To me, that is far more important than any 2nd day draft pick next season.

Mr. Laz
05-26-2007, 10:32 AM
I know. But it is not like this very draft pick we are haggling over is going to turn out to be a HOF player and the final piece to building a Super Bowl team in KC anyway.

Time to give next years team a true sense of direction. To me, that is far more important than any 2nd day draft pick next season.
some of the Chiefs best work comes on day 2

milkman
05-26-2007, 10:32 AM
I know. But it is not like this very draft pick we are haggling over is going to turn out to be a HOF player and the final piece to building a Super Bowl team in KC anyway.

That's true, but no one knows how any draft pick will turn out, but the higher the pick, the better the odds that that player will be a contributor.

Time to give next years team a true sense of direction. To me, that is far more important than any 2nd day draft pick next season.

As much as I dislike Herman ****ing Edwards, one thing he has done is given this team a sense of direction, and this overplayed Trent Green drama does nothing to diminish that.

Coogs
05-26-2007, 10:37 AM
As much as I dislike Herman ****ing Edwards, one thing he has done is given this team a sense of direction, and this overplayed Trent Green drama does nothing to diminish that.

Everything I have seen or heard from the local media indicates Herm does not want Trent on the team. The giving of Green equal snaps in practice is a smoke screen. And at this point, snaps taken away from Croyle, even if only in shorts and helmets, are so much more important for the 2007 Chiefs than what transpires in the 2008 draft with a late round draft pick.

The snaps not being taken now by Croyle may much more affect our own picks in all 7 rounds in next years draft.

milkman
05-26-2007, 10:42 AM
Everything I have seen or heard from the local media indicates Herm does not want Trent on the team. The giving of Green equal snaps in practice is a smoke screen. And at this point, snaps taken away from Croyle, even if only in shorts and helmets, are so much more important for the 2007 Chiefs than what transpires in the 2008 draft with a late round draft pick.

The snaps not being taken now by Croyle may much more affect our own picks in all 7 rounds in next years draft.

Do you think that the Chiefs are going to make a run deep into the playoffs if Croyle gets the majority of the snaps in mini camps and TC?

If not, then it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, except that we'll get higher picks in each round, which is actually a good thing.

And the fact is, Herman ****ing Edwards made it pretty clear that Croyle was going to be getting the majority of snaps in practice so they can find out if he's ready.

They already know what they have in Green and Huard.

RedThat
05-26-2007, 10:45 AM
That's true, but no one knows how any draft pick will turn out, but the higher the pick, the better the odds that that player will be a contributor.



As much as I dislike Herman ****ing Edwards, one thing he has done is given this team a sense of direction, and this overplayed Trent Green drama does nothing to diminish that.

Yeah, I can agree with you on that. Good thing is, he has a plan and he is sticking with his plan.

And another thing Herm is doing well, is he trying to stockpile draftpicks.

Instead of just cutting guys, were getting some draftpicks in return which is very good to see.

RedThat
05-26-2007, 10:59 AM
Do you think that the Chiefs are going to make a run deep into the playoffs if Croyle gets the majority of the snaps in mini camps and TC?

If not, then it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, except that we'll get higher picks in each round, which is actually a good thing.

And the fact is, Herman ****ing Edwards made it pretty clear that Croyle was going to be getting the majority of snaps in practice so they can find out if he's ready.

They already know what they have in Green and Huard.

Too be honest, who knows?

you never know in the world of football anything can happen? I'll bet nobody ever thought the Pats would win with Tom Brady?

But, given the fact the Chiefs are good at home, AND, it seems like the Chiefs are going in the right direction on defense. Im a firm believer defense wins. IMO, they've improved there. I trust Herm when it comes to defense. I think if the Chiefs go with Huard, judging from what I saw last year, I think he will fit well with Herm wants to do on offense. Plus, they have a good RB, a good TE, and despite the retirement of Shields, I think Welbourne will be a solid replacement, and McIntosh is an upgrade over Black. Drafting Bowe hopefully will pan out, I think they're not too bad on offense.

I think they can win the division. They have a good chance. and then you never know what can happen from there?

I don't think the Chiefs are that bad. Making a run deep in the playoffs though? Who knows? But I think they have a chance to be there? And if they went with Huard last year, I think they woulda beat the Colts.

*I hope they start Huard. Nothing against Croyle. I prefer the veteran. The young guy can wait, he has a whole future ahead of him. It's just that, from what we saw in Huard last year, he deserves a chance to start. A lot of people may not like him, but he kept us in games last year, and gave us a chance to win. That imo, combined with a good defense and a strong running game gives the Chiefs every chance to be a REALLY strong team this year.

Gonzo
05-26-2007, 11:13 AM
Culpepper warns Green about Fins
Posted: Saturday May 26, 2007 07:29AM ET

Daunte Culpepper said Friday he has not asked the Dolphins to clarify his status despite reports that he likely will be traded or released after the team acquires Trent Green. Meanwhile, Culpepper cautioned that ''it's not going to be a cakewalk'' for Green -- or any player -- who joins the Dolphins.

Miami Herald


http://fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/4594

Sure-Oz
05-26-2007, 11:20 AM
They can both take turns blowing out their knees.

milkman
05-26-2007, 11:29 AM
Too be honest, who knows?

you never know in the world of football anything can happen? I'll bet nobody ever thought the Pats would win with Tom Brady?

You're right, nobody really knows.

But, given the fact the Chiefs are good at home, AND, it seems like the Chiefs are going in the right direction on defense. Im a firm believer defense wins. IMO, they've improved there. I trust Herm when it comes to defense. I think if the Chiefs go with Huard, judging from what I saw last year, I think he will fit well with Herm wants to do on offense. Plus, they have a good RB, a good TE, and despite the retirement of Shields, I think Welbourne will be a solid replacement, and McIntosh is an upgrade over Black. Drafting Bowe hopefully will pan out, I think they're not too bad on offense.

The problem is that the are just too many question marks on this team to make any kind of reasonable projection of how this season wil play out.

There seems to be a number of positions that have been upgraded, but until we actually see the team in action, it is all only speculation and hope.

I think they can win the division. They have a good chance. and then you never know what can happen from there?

San Diego is still the class of the division, despite Norve Turner.
It will take him at least a couple of seasons to **** that team up, and they might well winn a SB before he does.

The Chiefs will still likely battle the Donkeys for 2nd and a playoff spot.

I don't think the Chiefs are that bad. Making a run deep in the playoffs though? Who knows? But I think they have a chance to be there? And if they went with Huard last year, I think they woulda beat the Colts.

Maybe, but I doubt.
That loss wasn't all on Green.
The receivers dropped a number of balls that should have been catches.
Had they made a couple of those catches, the perception of Green at this point might be entirely different.

*I hope they start Huard. Nothing against Croyle. I prefer the veteran. The young guy can wait, he has a whole future ahead of him. It's just that, from what we saw in Huard last year, he deserves a chance to start. A lot of people may not like him, but he kept us in games last year, and gave us a chance to win. That imo, combined with a good defense and a strong running game gives the Chiefs every chance to be a REALLY strong team this year.

To me, this team, if the players we drafted live up to their potential, there will still be a lot of growing pains to go through.

Why wait until next year to start Croyle?

Start him now, find out if he is the future, and let him grow with the other new faces this season.

We have nothing to lose if we do, and we have nothing to gain by starting Huard.

Coogs
05-26-2007, 12:28 PM
Do you think that the Chiefs are going to make a run deep into the playoffs if Croyle gets the majority of the snaps in mini camps and TC?

If not, then it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, except that we'll get higher picks in each round, which is actually a good thing.

And the fact is, Herman ****ing Edwards made it pretty clear that Croyle was going to be getting the majority of snaps in practice so they can find out if he's ready.

They already know what they have in Green and Huard.

No to the first question. But I really think it is important for a young QB to be getting as many reps as possible.... even in just shorts and helmets.

And he is not getting tha majority of the snaps right now, every QB is getting 3 apiece. Huard, Printers, Green, and Croyle so to prove it is not a weighted competition.

Again, I am more interested in the Chiefs in 2007. I think it is a distraction to keep this thing going. And I really don't think a 2nd day draft pick is going to make or break the team in the future.

Hell, with all the fuss surrounding this particular pick, you know it isn't going to pan out anyway.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:55 PM
I know. But it is not like this very draft pick we are haggling over is going to turn out to be a HOF player and the final piece to building a Super Bowl team in KC anyway.

Time to give next years team a true sense of direction. To me, that is far more important than any 2nd day draft pick next season.
If a 4th is so meaningless then there is no reason the Dolphins should be so unwilling to give it to us. Following that same thought a conditional 5th is not much incentive for us to jump on the deal. This team has direction. Some players and fans may not like it, but it has direction.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 12:59 PM
3 extra reps in May are not going to make any difference. Croyle will get plenty of playing time in the next few months.

Coogs
05-26-2007, 01:03 PM
This team has direction. Some players and fans may not like it, but it has direction.

As a fan, I am pumped about the direction this team is taking. I have been waiting impatiently for this for a couple of years.

Coogs
05-26-2007, 01:10 PM
3 extra reps in May are not going to make any difference. Croyle will get plenty of playing time in the next few months.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. If Trent Green is the starter this season for the Chiefs, then yes I would agree 100%. 3 extra snaps in May would mean nothing.

But Croyle has virtually no experience with the 1st unit, so IMO, every snap is vital, even in May.

Mecca
05-26-2007, 01:22 PM
As a fan, I am pumped about the direction this team is taking. I have been waiting impatiently for this for a couple of years.

So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........it is possible that it can happen.

keg in kc
05-26-2007, 01:35 PM
So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........Sure. That would result in the team adding a top-5 draft pick from every round in 2008 to the solid- and deep-looking core of young talent they've already built.

It might not be fun to sit through the games in 2007, but it would all but guarantee a double-digit win total in 2008.

Assuming they didn't select the next Ryan Sims.

Going 6-10 to 10-6 every year is what got us in this mess to start with. Do I want to lose 12 games? No. But if it's part of the process that leads to a championship-calibre squad here, I think I could live with it.


'course, all that said, there's no way they only with 4 games next year.

el borracho
05-26-2007, 01:35 PM
So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........it is possible that it can happen.
I would still watch every game. Probably wouldn't be as fun, but I would still watch.

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 01:43 PM
So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........it is possible that it can happen.
Would you?

CrazyHorse
05-26-2007, 02:04 PM
According to NFL Total Access: the Fins have upped their offer from a 6th to a 6th or conditional 5th rounder. The conditions that need to be met to make it a 5th rounder was not mentioned.

Hell, it could be if Trent is Super Bowl MVP in '07 they up it to a 5th :shrug:

While Trent and his agent continue to negotiate through the media one has to wonder when Carl will call Greens agent and make the trade since he is the negotiator.

This is another excersize to apply pressure through the fans with incomplete information. Had Green kept his mouth shut through this, the deal would already be done. I dont see where he is justified complaining through the media after he tied the Chiefs hands. Now the Chiefs are left with one option and Green is crying foul. He is without a doubt one of my favorite all time Chiefs. I can certainly see his motives and appreciate the negotiation tactics. But disagree with his posture in OTAs.

His refusing to visit other teams took all the leverage that would have him in Miami early. Once he took the competition away from anyone but Miami gatting him he assured the result he'seeing now. Now that there is no leverage to negotiate trade amongst other teams interest, the only vehicle left is to play chicken with Miami. The fans may not like it, or agree with it. However, it's Green that put himself here. carl never told him when he said he could seek a trade that he could cripple KCs leverage to get something in return. I understand that CP said he would "get it done" to TG. But he never said he would do it for nothing. When Green hurt the Chiefs in negotiations, the Chiefs are no longer obligated to honor thier claim.

For the record, I believe Green will get to Miami in reasonable time. But TG refusing to play for anyone else is the reason Miami thinks they dont have to pay for him.

It's the same as if my wife and I were buying a car. She wanted the Ford 500 while I wanted the mustang. Lets say we agreed that I would get a used Mustang and she would get a used 500. Then I go out and buy a new mustang spending all the money. Who do you think would be driving that Mustang?

Not me!

BigMeatballDave
05-26-2007, 02:45 PM
So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........it is possible that it can happen.I am looking forward to watching some of these kids play.

htismaqe
05-26-2007, 02:56 PM
I am looking forward to watching some of these kids play.

Same here.

They could go 0-16 for all I care. I just wanna see Brodie, Bowe, Pollard, Page, and the rest of the young guys get significant playing time.

Mecca
05-26-2007, 03:01 PM
Alright guys just checkin..........it doesn't bother me. I think this approach is better than going 9-7 7-9 I basically agree with what Keg said......

I however do know some people who would rather see 8-8........

Direckshun
05-26-2007, 03:20 PM
Honestly, I'd rather see a good season than a bad season, and I'll tell you why.

We don't need top 5 picks to do great in the draft year after year. And if we end up 4-12, that'll mean virtually every young guy we put in there simply couldn't cut it.

Valiant
05-26-2007, 03:29 PM
word is that the Dolphins are going to cut Culpepper if/when they get Trent Green.

Then Oakland is gonna sign Culpepper to help take the pressure off of their rookie.


1. does culpepper have any bonus money coming that would put pressure on the dolphins to cut him sooner?

2. doesn't delaying the Green trade actually hurt the faiders as well?


Yes, so it is a win/win for us...

Coogs
05-26-2007, 03:48 PM
So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........it is possible that it can happen.


You bet! As I stated earlier, I have been impatiently waiting for this for a couple of years. And As I stated a month or two ago when we started blowing up the roster in earnest, I will not bitch all year long if a true youth movement is in place. So far it appears that is the case, and I fully expect to honor my pledge.

I Huard is the QB, then I may whine from time to time.

milkman
05-26-2007, 05:03 PM
No to the first question. But I really think it is important for a young QB to be getting as many reps as possible.... even in just shorts and helmets.

And he is not getting tha majority of the snaps right now, every QB is getting 3 apiece. Huard, Printers, Green, and Croyle so to prove it is not a weighted competition.

Again, I am more interested in the Chiefs in 2007. I think it is a distraction to keep this thing going. And I really don't think a 2nd day draft pick is going to make or break the team in the future.

Hell, with all the fuss surrounding this particular pick, you know it isn't going to pan out anyway.

I just don't believe that what they do in May has a whole lot of impact on what happens in September.

When TC starts, we'll see if there is a difference.
That's when the players start getting specific reps with the first team or second team, and when the #1 guy gets the most reps.

I just don't see this Trent Green thing as this huge distraction for anyone but Green.
The rest of the team just has to go out there and work and get prepared for the season.

I don't see '07 as a big year for the Chiefs, but if Croyle is the future, and these young guys pan out, with a another good draft, I can see '08 as the year the Chiefs take a large step forward.

milkman
05-26-2007, 05:08 PM
So if they go 4-12 will you still be pumped.........it is possible that it can happen.

I am pumped about the direction of this team, and a season of growing pains that result in a 12 loss season will do nothing to diminish that.

This team is headed in the right direction, and doing things in what I have said many times before is the right way, for the first time in years.

I didn't give up in the 70's and 80's, and haven't jumped ship in the 18 years that Carl has been here, when he hired coach after coach, after coach that I couldn't stand.

I sure as hell ain't jumping ship now.

Tribal Warfare
05-26-2007, 05:13 PM
I sure as hell ain't jumping ship now.


Damn straight :rockon:

Mecca
05-26-2007, 05:37 PM
Honestly, I'd rather see a good season than a bad season, and I'll tell you why.

We don't need top 5 picks to do great in the draft year after year. And if we end up 4-12, that'll mean virtually every young guy we put in there simply couldn't cut it.

We don't have an elite defense......or anything like that to carry a team.

The difference in 4-8 wins in the league is close now......Say we start Croyle and we play alot of close games, he'll make mistakes a veteran QB wouldn't..........it is realistic we have a team that is good enough to win 8-9 games but wins 3-4 because of the QB........that is the nature of todays NFL a few mistakes and you got 5 wins instead of 8.

keg in kc
05-26-2007, 07:26 PM
it is realistic we have a team that is good enough to win 8-9 games but wins 3-4 because of the QB........that is the nature of todays NFL a few mistakes and you got 5 wins instead of 8.Just my opinion, you could be right, but I think that's a little bit of an exaggeration. Decent teams don't win 3-4 games. Really, really bad teams do that. Decent teams, if they don't have any luck at all, or just have bad luck, will still win 7-8 games. With some luck they win 9-10.

Either way, with the type of team Herm is building, even if Croyle is "the guy," I doubt he'll be asked to shoulder any real load. He'll have a simple playbook with simple reads in an offense built around running the ball and controlling the clock. I hope it ends up being more than that at some point, but my guess is 2007, if it is Croyle 1.0, will be Martyocre offense, by the numbers. 30-35 runs a game, 25-30 passes, most of them high percentage. They'll protect Croyle as much as possible. And I'll need no-doz to watch it.

He's not a rookie either. A year on the sidelines with a few snaps generally does make a difference.