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Direckshun
05-29-2007, 01:18 AM
I swear to god we were having this conversation and came to this conclusion a week ago. Green's argument that he's seeking a "fair competition" is bunk.

Rack another one up for the democratic masses at ChiefsPlanet!

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/05/29/rand_who_ever_said_competition_was_fair/

RAND: Who ever said competition was "fair"?
May 29, 2007, 1:18:28 AM by Jonathan Rand

As discussion over Trent Green’s likely trade to the Miami Dolphins continues to fill the NFL’s off-season news vacuum, the most misunderstood issue is whether Green is being afforded “fair competition” in the Chiefs’ quarterback derby.

Green complained that though coach Herm Edwards publicly promised “fair competition,” the quarterback competition was actually “weighted” because the coach has acknowledged wanting a younger roster and a good look at second-year passer Brodie Croyle. Edwards replied that quarterback was just one of several positions where “equal competition” would determine the starter.

Fact is, purely equal competition – where everybody starts from scratch — is usually the exception in NFL camps. Strong competition helps make everybody better, but the starters at most positions stick out like sore thumbs.

Purely fair and equal competition would require that a head coach ignore past performance and have players wear numberless jerseys and masks. So if future Hall of Fame tight end Tony Gonzalez pulls a hamstring during training camp and is slow to get into shape while Kris Wilson has a great preseason, should Edwards name Wilson the starter? Only if he doesn’t want to survive for a third season coaching the Chiefs.

From youth sports through the professional leagues, coaches usually can identify their best players months before the first game. In reality, fair competition means not writing off players before they get a legitimate chance to demonstrate their ability. If fifth-round pick Kolby Smith runs sensationally in pre-season games, Edwards will look for opportunities to give him the ball. He will not let Smith start instead of Larry Johnson.

There was nothing completely “fair” about the Chiefs’ quarterback competition for the past six summers. From the moment the Chiefs in 2001 traded a first-round draft choice for Green and a fifth-round pick, there was no question that Green would be Dick Vermeil’s starter. Backup Todd Collins did not expect “fair” competition. He knew full well that no matter how poorly Green performed or how well Collins performed in the preseason, Green was going to start.

As long as you have a Pro Bowl quarterback, you pencil him in as the starter every year until he shows signs of declining. Green showed those signs last season and the Chiefs would be terribly misguided if they didn’t try to replace him.

Truly fair competition would dictate that a coach ignore age and economics. If Edwards evaluated Green and Croyle as roughly equal, would it make more sense to go with the player who can lead the Chiefs into the future or the player on borrowed time?

If Green and Damon Huard proved roughly equal, you’d expect Edwards to realize that starting Huard and releasing Green would create more salary cap space to further improve the roster. All this, of course, would assume that Green doesn’t already have one foot out the door.

NFL coaches don’t aspire to fair competition in the sense that every job is truly open. They aspire to identify their 22 starters and best 53 players. That requires more open competition at some positions than others. Edwards, for instance, will have to spread more opportunities among his defensive tackles than cornerbacks before deciding whom to keep and start.

Before the draft, we’re always hearing scouts, coaches and general managers remind us that they’d much rather evaluate players based on for four college seasons than on pre-draft workouts. So why should NFL head coaches start from scratch with their veterans each summer?

Huard’s breakthrough performance and Green’s struggles of 2006 are much more relevant to Edwards’ evaluation than how either can perform on the practice field this spring or summer. And Croyle needs more than a “fair” shot simply because nobody yet knows what he can do.

Truth be told, the Chiefs’ quarterback position is more open now than it’s been for quite some time.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 01:22 AM
For the record, the Chiefs boast honestly "fair competition" at many positions this year. Quarterback being one of them.

Defensive tackle.
Safety.
Wide receiver.
Right tackle.
Right guard.
Center.
Fullback.

The ironic thing here is that you have to give the Chiefs credit -- they're finally starting to have open competitions for positions, and Green's actually bitching that they're not doing it anymore.

Love it.

Logical
05-29-2007, 01:37 AM
As long as you have a Pro Bowl quarterback, you pencil him in as the starter every year until he shows signs of declining. Green showed those signs last season and the Chiefs would be terribly misguided if they didn’t try to replace him.

Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

Deberg_1990
05-29-2007, 01:42 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:


and thats exactly why things are at a stalemate.....

Fruit Ninja
05-29-2007, 02:00 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:
Well, the writer didnt say so much, he just said, "he started declining". He also said in Miami that he wasnt not gauranteed the starting spot either.

beer bacon
05-29-2007, 02:14 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

This is really that hard to understand? You see, while we would rather go with Croyle this season, we also believe that if Green went to Miami he would be the starter. Just because we don't want him to be our starter, that doesn't mean we don't want decent compensation from a team that wants to make him their starter.

SPchief
05-29-2007, 03:39 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

Simple response:

Cleo Lemon.




BTW we (the chiefs,) since apparently you aren't a fan anymore, moved away from a 2nd round pick before the draft.

the Talking Can
05-29-2007, 05:31 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

who is asking for a 2nd? Not the Chiefs...

and MIAMI wants him as a starter, we don't....you big baby


ROFL

boogblaster
05-29-2007, 05:37 AM
Trade him for a Olineman...ppppllllleeeeaaasssseeeeeeeeeee........

rad
05-29-2007, 06:31 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

You've obviously never negotiated for anything in your life.......

Who said we deserve a 2nd round pick?

OnTheWarpath58
05-29-2007, 06:37 AM
Boy, it really sucks to have a coach who says the best players will play, instead of just being handed jobs out of loyalty......

And FWIW, even Green said that the Dolphins haven't promised him or even implied he's going to be the starter IF he ever makes it to Miami.

rad
05-29-2007, 06:41 AM
Boy, it really sucks to have a coach who says the best players will play, instead of just being handed jobs out of loyalty......

And FWIW, even Green said that the Dolphins haven't promised him or even implied he's going to be the starter IF he ever makes it to Miami.

.........and all these people who keep saying "They never promised Green a starting spot" need to wake the **** up. That's called "not showing your ass in negotiations".....

The Bad Guy
05-29-2007, 06:47 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

The devil's advocate thing is old.

Of course the Chiefs didn't expect a 2nd rounder for him. That's where they STARTED the negotiations. When I'm trying to sell something, I list it in the paper as the highest I want for it, knowing that I will be negotated down.

He's valuable to the Dolphins for one reason - Cam Cameron. Green knows their offense and that reduces the learning curve - the same reason he was valuable to the Chiefs 5 years ago.

The Bad Guy
05-29-2007, 06:48 AM
Boy, it really sucks to have a coach who says the best players will play, instead of just being handed jobs out of loyalty......
.

Yep.

The good ole' boys network is finally out of KC.

All of Vermei's main men - Green, Dante, Hicks are all gone.

Gone are the days of whining about the schedule.

Gone are the excuses.

OnTheWarpath58
05-29-2007, 07:17 AM
Yep.

The good ole' boys network is finally out of KC.

All of Vermei's main men - Green, Dante, Hicks are all gone.

Gone are the days of whining about the schedule.

Gone are the excuses.

Thank God.

Could you imagine the cry-fest that would have occured when the schedule came out?

Boo-hoo, the league hates us.....

OnTheWarpath58
05-29-2007, 07:19 AM
.........and all these people who keep saying "They never promised Green a starting spot" need to wake the **** up. That's called "not showing your ass in negotiations".....

I'm just repeating what was said. (or not said)

Doesn't mean I believe it.

Trent will be the starter in Miami, barring injury or the trade not getting completed....

penchief
05-29-2007, 09:03 AM
The longer this stalemate drags on the more public opinion is shifting, IMO. The commentators on Sirius are even beginning to defend Carl and state that Miami is not offering enough. Even Pat Kirwin (a former GM) said that a fourth-rounder would be a steal for a starting QB like Green.

In related news, Sirius had a radio clip of Green admitting on a Miami station that he felt like he was worth more than a sixth. He went on to say that, even so, it's the market that ultimately dictates. Unfortunately, he didn't mention that he, himself, had severely restricted the market price by declaring that he will only play for one team.

keg in kc
05-29-2007, 09:11 AM
The longer this goes on, the more of a problem it becomes for Miami. We think it's a distraction here...

FringeNC
05-29-2007, 09:13 AM
I guess Trent Green should have told the truth about why he doesn't want to play for KC instead of being diplomatic about it: Herm Edwards and his gawdawful offensive philosophy and play-calling.

If I were an NFL QB, Herm Edwards is about the last guy I'd want to play for.

Reerun_KC
05-29-2007, 09:29 AM
I guess Trent Green should have told the truth about why he doesn't want to play for KC instead of being diplomatic about it: Herm Edwards and his gawdawful offensive philosophy and play-calling.

If I were an NFL QB, Herm Edwards is about the last guy I'd want to play for.


Very solid post... Rep worthy!

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 09:35 AM
If I was a QB who enjoyed playing in the postseason, Herm Edwards would definitely be a guy I'd want to play for.

Reerun_KC
05-29-2007, 09:38 AM
If I was a QB who enjoyed playing in the postseason, Herm Edwards would definitely be a guy I'd want to play for.


I think I would rather play for Bill Belichek (spelling), The big Tuna, Dungy, People who actually play in the playoffs... Marty and Herm wouldnt be on that list....

the Talking Can
05-29-2007, 09:39 AM
cue wackenpuss with a 10 paragraph rebuttal proving that Green is only worth a conditional 43rd rounder and that our is team turning into an episode of the Real World Denver because of this....plus Miami is a classy franchise because they signed Ricky Williams...err...

shaneo69
05-29-2007, 10:49 AM
Yep.

The good ole' boys network is finally out of KC.

All of Vermei's main men - Green, Dante, Hicks are all gone.

Gone are the days of whining about the schedule.

Gone are the excuses.

You must have missed the ten articles Gretz wrote about how the Chiefs must have pissed off someone in the league office for them to get such a tough schedule this year.

In case you didn't hear, no other team in NFL history has ever had to play the first two and the last two games on the road.

Reerun_KC
05-29-2007, 10:54 AM
Yep.

The good ole' boys network is finally out of KC.

All of Vermei's main men - Green, Dante, Hicks are all gone.

Gone are the days of whining about the schedule.

Gone are the excuses.


I will agree with you to a point, but to truly have this "The good ole' boys network is finally out of KC" Carl and his weak ass cronies coaching staff needs the boot as well...

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 11:07 AM
I think I would rather play for Bill Belichek (spelling), The big Tuna, Dungy, People who actually play in the playoffs... Marty and Herm wouldnt be on that list....
Herm's playoff record isn't great, but it's not bad considering the teams he's worked with in an unbelievably tough AFC.

4 times in six years. 4 times, six years. With the soft bitch Jets and last year's Chiefs.

He's not the best coach in the league, no, but his record shows that he can get to the playoffs consistently -- and show me a QB that doesn't want to play in the postseason.

OnTheWarpath58
05-29-2007, 11:08 AM
You must have missed the ten articles Gretz wrote about how the Chiefs must have pissed off someone in the league office for them to get such a tough schedule this year.

In case you didn't hear, no other team in NFL history has ever had to play the first two and the last two games on the road.

Gretz isn't the head coach. He can whine all he wants.

Vermeil made excuses before the season ever started.

Herm is the anti-Vermeil in that regard.

The attitude is slowly changing inside the walls of 1 Arrowhead Drive.

For the better.

Reerun_KC
05-29-2007, 11:13 AM
Herm's playoff record isn't great, but it's not bad considering the teams he's worked with in an unbelievably tough AFC.

4 times in six years. 4 times, six years. With the soft bitch Jets and last year's Chiefs.

He's not the best coach in the league, no, but his record shows that he can get to the playoffs consistently -- and show me a QB that doesn't want to play in the postseason.


No offense Direckshun, but those where Herms soft bitch Jets teams he built....

But wouldnt you want to win in the playoffs consistently? Seems to me that everything revolves around winning in the playoffs.....

I could be wrong though, but IF I was, then there wouldnt of been a 14-2 coach last year lose his job for reasons everyone in the NFL knew what would happen in the playoffs.

The next two years are critical for the Chiefs, Playoffs and Playoff wins are a pipe dream right now. But in 09, we should be able to compete and make a deep run into the post season.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 11:16 AM
No offense Direckshun, but those where Herms soft bitch Jets teams he built....

But wouldnt you want to win in the playoffs consistently? Seems to me that everything revolves around winning in the playoffs.....

I could be wrong though, but IF I was, then there wouldnt of been a 14-2 coach last year lose his job for reasons everyone in the NFL knew what would happen in the playoffs.

The next two years are critical for the Chiefs, Playoffs and Playoff wins are a pipe dream right now. But in 09, we should be able to compete and make a deep run into the post season.
Ah. Okay.

See, there's only like five coaches in the NFL who have consistently won in the playoffs in the 21st century.

And here I was thinking you hated Herm. When in reality you simply hate every HC except those four or five.

Everything's cleared up now.

Reerun_KC
05-29-2007, 11:19 AM
Ah. Okay.

See, there's only like five coaches in the NFL who have consistently won in the playoffs in the 21st century.

And here I was thinking you hated Herm. When in reality you simply hate every HC except those four or five.

Everything's cleared up now.


Cool So now we are on the same page...

splatbass
05-29-2007, 11:35 AM
Love the inconsistency, Green has declined so much he should not be penciled in as the Chiefs starter, but yet he is automatically the starter in Miami and we deserve a 2nd rounder for him.:rolleyes:

It would only be inconsistent if the Chiefs and Dolphins were in the same situation. They are not. The Chiefs have Huard, who proved last year he can start for this team, and Croyle who we hope will be the QOTF. The Dolphins have Lemon and a crippled Culpepper. We don't need a starting QB, they do. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 11:39 AM
Plus Green fits their offense, not ours.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 11:49 AM
The devil's advocate thing is old.

I honestly don't think it's an act anymore.

This "bag on anything and everything" attitude is the REAL Jim.

Slick32
05-29-2007, 04:56 PM
Quote:

As long as you have a Pro Bowl quarterback, you pencil him in as the starter every year until he shows signs of declining. Green showed those signs last season and the Chiefs would be terribly misguided if they didn’t try to replace him.


Whom ever made the above comment hasn't a clue about if Green is showing signs of decline. He was returning to the game after a severe concussion. To judge him for those few games is totally out of the realm of fairness to a player that has given the Chiefs some pretty good numbers over the past 4 years.

If the HC or FO wants to send him away, they don't need to play the "he's getting old" card. I would have hoped the Chiefs organization had more class than that.

TRR
05-29-2007, 05:01 PM
Quote:

As long as you have a Pro Bowl quarterback, you pencil him in as the starter every year until he shows signs of declining. Green showed those signs last season and the Chiefs would be terribly misguided if they didn’t try to replace him.


Whom ever made the above comment hasn't a clue about if Green is showing signs of decline. He was returning to the game after a severe concussion. To judge him for those few games is totally out of the realm of fairness to a player that has given the Chiefs some pretty good numbers over the past 4 years.

If the HC or FO wants to send him away, they don't need to play the "he's getting old" card. I would have hoped the Chiefs organization had more class than that.


Concussion or not, Trent Green looked like a QB on the decline last season. It may have effected him the first couple of games back, but Green played worse at the end of the season, then he did when he first came back. His arm looked like it had lost zip, and he looked confused with the offense.

I like Trent Green. He was, at one time, my favorite player. However, it is time to move on and let soemone else take the reigns. Croyle could be an absolute bust (the odds definitely lean towards that), but we will never know until he plays.

Slick32
05-29-2007, 05:07 PM
Concussion or not, Trent Green looked like a QB on the decline last season. It may have effected him the first couple of games back, but Green played worse at the end of the season, then he did when he first came back. His arm looked like it had lost zip, and he looked confused with the offense.

I like Trent Green. He was, at one time, my favorite player. However, it is time to move on and let soemone else take the reigns. Croyle could be an absolute bust (the odds definitely lean towards that), but we will never know until he plays.

The only real way for Trent Green to be evaluated would be to put him on the field and let him play. It is my contention that Trent should not have returned to the field last year. IMO he was not fully recovered from the concussion and that was most likely the reason for his decline in performance.

If he is indeed traded to Miami we may find that out first hand when we play Miami. Then it will be too late for KC.

If Trent is to be gone I'd rather give Croyle the reigns and sit Huard. I would still rather have Green as a backup than Huard any day.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 05:48 PM
Croyle could be an absolute bust (the odds definitely lean towards that)
Say again?

JohnnyV13
05-29-2007, 05:54 PM
Yep.

The good ole' boys network is finally out of KC.

All of Vermei's main men - Green, Dante, Hicks are all gone.

Gone are the days of whining about the schedule.

Gone are the excuses.


Gone are offensive game plans that have progressed beyond the neolithic age.

I admit, herm's D will be much better next season with waves of young, talented linemen and fast linebackers, PLUS an enforced in Bonecrusher.

Hydrae
05-29-2007, 06:26 PM
Gone are offensive game plans that have progressed beyond the neolithic age.

I admit, herm's D will be much better next season with waves of young, talented linemen and fast linebackers, PLUS an enforced in Bonecrusher.

I feel like we are returning to what I consider Chiefs football. I started following the team in 1990, with Albert Lewis, DT, Neil, Saleamua, etc. This is more what I fell in love with with the Chiefs than the circus act these last few years. It has been fun but the lack of defense has really been hard to take. I look forward to a smoothering defense that can make Manning swallow his teeth!

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 06:52 PM
Croyle could be an absolute bust (the odds definitely lean towards that)

What are those odds, by chance?

shaneo69
05-29-2007, 07:00 PM
What are those odds, by chance?

Based on Carl's QB-drafting history, I'd say 100%.

splatbass
05-29-2007, 07:21 PM
Based on Carl's QB-drafting history, I'd say 100%.

This is the first time that I recall that he took a QB on the first day of the draft. Usually he goes for projects in the later rounds. Maybe this time will be different. I'll wait to see before passing judgement.

Slick32
05-29-2007, 07:28 PM
Gone are offensive game plans that have progressed beyond the neolithic age.

I admit, herm's D will be much better next season with waves of young, talented linemen and fast linebackers, PLUS an enforced in Bonecrusher.

A better defense and a worse offense isn't going to get us anywhere. With that being said, why would the Chiefs be fearful of Miami? We basically have no offense outside LJ and he can't do it on his own.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 07:34 PM
Based on Carl's QB-drafting history, I'd say 100%.

How many QB's has Herm drafted?

TRR
05-29-2007, 07:59 PM
What are those odds, by chance?

Croyle really had only one good season at Alabama. His other years were marred with major injuries. He has never even passed for 3,000 yards in one season. He's a 3rd round draft pick (which most said were too high) that scouts said was to slight of stature to be a starting QB in the NFL.

We shall see. I hope Croyle proves all the doubters wrong. I'm definitely willing to give him a chance.

blueballs
05-29-2007, 08:04 PM
Hootie is happy as a pig in shit

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:05 PM
The evidence is clear that it's the coaches, not Carl, who draft players and shape the team. How else can you explain the dramatic shifts of the past two years.

The only pick that Carl outwardly took into his own hands was LJ, and Dick bitched about it.

KcMizzou
05-29-2007, 08:09 PM
The evidence is clear that it's the coaches, not Carl, who draft players and shape the team. How else can you explain the dramatic shifts of the past two years.

The only pick that Carl outwardly took into his own hands was LJ, and Dick bitched about it.Good point.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 08:11 PM
Croyle really had only one good season at Alabama. His other years were marred with major injuries. He has never even passed for 3,000 yards in one season.

He played on one of the worst Alabama teams in the last 60 years. So that's not all on him. The major injuries is a HUGE question mark, I agree with that.

He's a 3rd round draft pick (which most said were too high) that scouts said was to slight of stature to be a starting QB in the NFL.

Scouts said his thin frame was a concern, but they also said he could benefit from a year or 2 on the bench and the addition of 10-15 pounds of muscle. We sat him for a year, and as of 7 months ago, he was definitely heavier than when we drafted him.

Of course, my purpose in all of this is not to try to convince people that Croyle is going to be a stud. I don't know that he will be. But the people that act like he's already a bust just get on my nerves.

TRR
05-29-2007, 08:19 PM
He played on one of the worst Alabama teams in the last 60 years. So that's not all on him. The major injuries is a HUGE question mark, I agree with that.



Scouts said his thin frame was a concern, but they also said he could benefit from a year or 2 on the bench and the addition of 10-15 pounds of muscle. We sat him for a year, and as of 7 months ago, he was definitely heavier than when we drafted him.

Of course, my purpose in all of this is not to try to convince people that Croyle is going to be a stud. I don't know that he will be. But the people that act like he's already a bust just get on my nerves.

I agree with you. Nobody knows for sure. However, it does seem that Croyle has the odds stacked against him. He's only 6'2 and rail thin. He may get a bit bigger, but he's just not a big guy. And his injuries are a concern even before he plays a down as the starting QB for KC.

I think if Croyle can stay healthy, he will be a good system QB. One thing he did do was minimize mistakes in college. That is what Herm wants from the QB position, and Green seemed to always have that killer INT when we couldn't have it most. Either way, Croyle will have to overcome some things to be a starting QB in the NFL.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:19 PM
A debate I've already gone through with someone on this board: a major injury history will knock a player down at least one round, if not more than that.

Croyle was regarded as a 3rd rounder, and a large part of that was his injury history. Take that away, and you're left with talent worthy of an early 2nd round or late 1st.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 08:24 PM
He's only 6'2 and rail thin. He may get a bit bigger, but he's just not a big guy.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but he's NOT "rail thin".

Before the Sandy Eggo game last year, I was standing at the wall behind the Chiefs bench.

From 20 feet away at the very most, I saw him standing next to Trent with helmets off. They're EXACTLY the same size.

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:24 PM
A debate I've already gone through with someone on this board: a major injury history will knock a player down at least one round, if not more than that.

Croyle was regarded as a 3rd rounder, and a large part of that was his injury history. Take that away, and you're left with talent worthy of an early 2nd round or late 1st.

If continual injuries are a problem what part of a 1st or 2nd round pick can you tag to him? If he is as spindly as they said the monsters that play defense for the other 31 teams might break him in more than two pieces.

I'd like to see him succeed but I don't think he is our QBOTF and I know that Huard isn't. That said, I think KC is making a mistake moving Green out of the picture prematurely. I feel he has at least one year left and maybe two, but with what we have it just doesn't seem like we have any future with the QB's we have in the stable at the moment(presuming Green is as gone as everyone says).

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:26 PM
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but he's NOT "rail thin".

Before the Sandy Eggo game last year, I was standing at the wall behind the Chiefs bench.

From 20 feet away at the very most, I saw him standing next to Trent with helmets off. They're EXACTLY the same size.

I saw him up close at the SD game as well. Almost as tall as Trent but no where as stocky. Still, the injury issue is troublesome.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 08:30 PM
I saw him up close at the SD game as well. Almost as tall as Trent but no where as stocky. Still, the injury issue is troublesome.

They were nearly identical in size. No idea where you get "no where as stocky".

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:30 PM
First time I've heard Trent described as stocky.
If continual injuries are a problem what part of a 1st or 2nd round pick can you tag to him?
Pure talent.

Overall, including that injury history, he's clearly a third rounder, I have no disagreement. But if he can stay healthy for us (yeah, big question), his talent potential might have made him the #3 most promising QB if he were in this year's draft.

Just saying.

shaneo69
05-29-2007, 08:31 PM
How many QB's has Herm drafted?

Two.

Brodie Croyle and...


Brooks Bollinger.

blueballs
05-29-2007, 08:32 PM
Green would not renegotiate his contract
that started the ball rolling

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:33 PM
Brooks Bollinger.
Bollinger was drafted out of the 6th, for depth.

Pennington was the team's QB of the future at that time, Testaverde his backup.

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:37 PM
They were nearly identical in size. No idea where you get "no where as stocky".

Eyes dude eyes!

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 08:39 PM
Eyes dude eyes!

So we saw two completely different things. What does that suggest?

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:41 PM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1286/74250622vz4.jpg

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:42 PM
Stocky?

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/2310/74250591ht9.jpg

Frailty!

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2729/74250816of3.jpg

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 08:42 PM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1286/74250622vz4.jpg

He's so frail!!!

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:44 PM
He's so frail!!!
He has to carry his helmet like that because his bicep can't handle the intense pressure.

blueballs
05-29-2007, 08:45 PM
Brodie can take a hit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zuQOtEu4k

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:47 PM
He's so frail!!!

You don't see the difference? no less than a 20 lb difference.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:47 PM
Brodie can take a hit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zuQOtEu4k
Whoever the RB was just shuffled right by Landry like he didn't see him at all. :shake:

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:48 PM
He has to carry his helmet like that because his bicep can't handle the intense pressure.

He's listening to the Royals game, who are you kidding?

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 08:48 PM
You don't see the difference? no less than a 20 lb difference.
el oh el

blueballs
05-29-2007, 08:49 PM
Green/Huard would have turned the ball over
no doubt

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:50 PM
Brodie can take a hit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zuQOtEu4k

Let's see how many he can take. If the OL hasn't significantly improved he might be seeing opposing teams more than he sees his linemen.

Slick32
05-29-2007, 08:50 PM
Green/Huard would have turned the ball over
no doubt

Yeah, right.

blueballs
05-29-2007, 08:51 PM
Green has had children
the wider hips

Logical
05-29-2007, 09:28 PM
First time I've heard Trent described as stocky.

Pure talent.

Overall, including that injury history, he's clearly a third rounder, I have no disagreement. But if he can stay healthy for us (yeah, big question), his talent potential might have made him the #3 most promising QB if he were in this year's draft.

Just saying.

Wasn't this year considered to be one of the worst years after the top 2?

splatbass
05-29-2007, 09:49 PM
You don't see the difference? no less than a 20 lb difference.

Green and Croyle look to be the same size to me.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 10:12 PM
Wasn't this year considered to be one of the worst years after the top 2?
Shrug. I thought this was a relatively deep QB field.

Russell -- QBotF in Oakland
Quinn -- QBotF in Cleveland
Kolb -- QBotF in Philadelphia
Stanton -- QBotF in Detroit
Beck -- QBotF in Miami

That's just the first two rounds. Troy Smith (5th) is the QBotF in Baltimore, and is very likely to get a shot. That's a pretty good year for QBs, I'd say. A big handful of teams were willing to take the leap.

Trent Edwards in the 3rd, and I think he'll be a career backup of decent quality in the league.

milkman
05-30-2007, 10:38 PM
If continual injuries are a problem what part of a 1st or 2nd round pick can you tag to him? If he is as spindly as they said the monsters that play defense for the other 31 teams might break him in more than two pieces.

I'd like to see him succeed but I don't think he is our QBOTF and I know that Huard isn't. That said, I think KC is making a mistake moving Green out of the picture prematurely. I feel he has at least one year left and maybe two, but with what we have it just doesn't seem like we have any future with the QB's we have in the stable at the moment(presuming Green is as gone as everyone says).

How do the Chiefs benefit from keeping Green for another year or two?

This team is getting younger and building for the future, finally.
Why keep a 37 year old QB that doesn't fit into that future?

Fairplay
05-30-2007, 10:58 PM
Shrug. I thought this was a relatively deep QB field.




I disagree with you on this statement. After Russell and Quinn many draft analysts said this was a poor 2007 draft for that position. And i agree bigtime with that.

Slick32
05-31-2007, 05:22 AM
How do the Chiefs benefit from keeping Green for another year or two?

This team is getting younger and building for the future, finally.
Why keep a 37 year old QB that doesn't fit into that future?

So keeping Huard around is going to be different? The difference between Huard and Green is 3+ years and you are willing to keep a lesser qualified QB in the youth movement. I'm saying that if you are going to commit to a youth movement you send out Huard as well.

I think that Green is the better of the QB's on the roster but we will not have an opportunity to see that again.

htismaqe
05-31-2007, 09:31 AM
You don't see the difference? no less than a 20 lb difference.

20 pounds?

You either need an optometrist or a shrink.

Either way, you're seeing something that's not there.

htismaqe
05-31-2007, 09:33 AM
So keeping Huard around is going to be different? The difference between Huard and Green is 3+ years and you are willing to keep a lesser qualified QB in the youth movement. I'm saying that if you are going to commit to a youth movement you send out Huard as well.

I think that Green is the better of the QB's on the roster but we will not have an opportunity to see that again.

Because Huard is a capable BACKUP and is getting PAID like a capably BACKUP.

You don't back up a 2nd-year QB with another guy that's never played any football. You keep a cheap veteran.

Green = veteran
Huard = cheap veteran

Slick32
05-31-2007, 04:49 PM
Because Huard is a capable BACKUP and is getting PAID like a capably BACKUP.

You don't back up a 2nd-year QB with another guy that's never played any football. You keep a cheap veteran.

Green = veteran
Huard = cheap veteran

Huard won't be used as a backup, he will be used as a contingency plan. If he is kept and Croyle starts the Chiefs are admitting no commitment to the youth movement.

Croyle out Huard in and we are in just about the exact same place that every one here seems to want to get away from, an aging QB that has had his 15 minutes of fame and probably will not repeat his adequate performance of last year.

Either you commit to younger players or you keep the old guy that gives you the best shot at the playoffs, and that is NOT Huard.

It's a moot point according to most so what I'm seeing is that we are going to settle for a career backup and throw Green out, keep Croyle and make him sit behind someone that cannot mentor him. Yep, that hits our need right where we live.