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View Full Version : OK, some of you might be right…….


HemiEd
05-29-2007, 01:33 PM
Recently, I am developing some cracks in my Dick Vermeil love. They are not wholesale caverns, mind you, just cracks.

This Trent Green debacle, is the one that has really opened my eyes, to what must have been obvious to many of you. I never bought into Trent Green's talent, but his leadership and execution made me a big fan.

I now think he is a spoiled, ungrateful, over-rated turn coat, POS!

I liked a lot of what DV did, and thought most of it was very timely. He brought a cohesiveness, the team’s biggest weakness when he took over IMO. The team was an embarrassment, pathetic. People were laughing at the Chiefs!

However, I really like what I have been hearing about the upcoming competition for playing time. This has me truly excited about the upcoming season, even with Herm as the Coach. Heck, who knows, Herm may even turn out to be a genius.

Anybody else having a change of mind? What say you?

StcChief
05-29-2007, 01:38 PM
DV did a lot for the O but the D negect, blind loyalty to McCleon, Bartee, Sims etc. made us what are, rebuilding.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 01:39 PM
I soured on DV about halfway through 2003.

It just became obvious that the team wasn't cohesive, even though he tried to make it seem that way.

Simplex3
05-29-2007, 01:39 PM
I was never in love with DV, but you can't pin Trent's recent implosion on him. Trent was a model citizen when DV was here. It took Carl & Herm to turn Trent out.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 01:41 PM
I was never in love with DV, but you can't pin Trent's recent implosion on him. Trent was a model citizen when DV was here. It took Carl & Herm to turn Trent out.

It took Herm opening up Green's position to COMPETITION to "turn Trent out".

He wasn't used to having to compete for his job, and that's on Vermeil.

Mr. Kotter
05-29-2007, 01:42 PM
I liked DV, and appreciated what he did for half of the team.

About two years in though, I began to ask myself: "does this guy really plan to play in the NFL with this defense?"

How does a head-friggin'-coach IGNORE half the damn team? :spock:

That's when my eyes began to open.... :banghead::banghead::banghead:

sedated
05-29-2007, 01:43 PM
I lost all faith in DV during the 2003 off-season.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 01:44 PM
Trent was a model citizen when DV was here. He had the job handed to him as soon as he landed in KC after the trade. Never had to compete for the job.

It took Carl & Herm to turn Trent out.
Or did they expose him for who he really is?

Simplex3
05-29-2007, 01:46 PM
It took Herm opening up Green's position to COMPETITION to "turn Trent out".

He wasn't used to having to compete for his job, and that's on Vermeil.
Trent was kicking ass while DV was here. You would have screwed with that? I wouldn't have.

Now, because this is a youth movement, I would start Croyle at QB this year until I decided he wasn't the guy, at which time I'd cut him at the end of the year. Hell, if Pennington could run this offense I'm assuming Croyle can.

I don't see that Trent is pissed about competing for the job, I think Trent was told "you're ot our guy" and then was under the impression that he was 90% of the way to Miami when Carl slammed the door. I'm not saying he's right, and he surely isn't handling it well either.

Simplex3
05-29-2007, 01:47 PM
He had the job handed to him as soon as he landed in KC after the trade. Never had to compete for the job.


Or did they expose him for who he really is?
Part of a coach's job is to manage the personalities. I'd say DV did a great job with Trent if Trent is actually a gigantic s**t bag.

:shrug:

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 02:01 PM
I soured on DV about halfway through 2003.

It just became obvious that the team wasn't cohesive, even though he tried to make it seem that way.

Seriously? You must have some connections, because half way through the 2003 season, we were 8-0. :spock:

I was not partaking in all the hype, but 2003 had a lot of fun units for me.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 02:06 PM
Part of a coach's job is to manage the personalities. I'd say DV did a great job with Trent if Trent is actually a gigantic s**t bag.

:shrug:

Agreed, but it opened my eyes to his failures with the other players, that this strategy was not successful on. Hicks, Woods etc.

noa
05-29-2007, 02:10 PM
Agreed, but it opened my eyes to his failures with the other players, that this strategy was not successful on. Hicks, Woods etc.


Yep. DV took loyalty too far to the detriment of the team.
That bothered me, plus its not good when one half of your team hates the other half and blames it for all the losses.

keg in kc
05-29-2007, 02:10 PM
So...you're saying you don't like Dick as much as you used to?

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 02:14 PM
So...you're saying you don't like Dick as much as you used to?

Dick Vermeil. :D

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 02:16 PM
That bothered me, plus its not good when one half of your team hates the other half and blames it for all the losses.

I hear that a lot anymore. So do you think all the interviews with players, claiming they were united, was bull shit?

noa
05-29-2007, 02:26 PM
I hear that a lot anymore. So do you think all the interviews with players, claiming they were united, was bull shit?


Yeah. I think it was the right thing to say at the time, and I'm happy that was their public stance, but I'm sure there was a lot of resentment. When you're one of the top units in the NFL every year and breaking impressive records, and you still consistently miss the playoffs because the other unit isn't pulling its share of the weight, you've gotta resent that, just not publicly.

Cochise
05-29-2007, 02:27 PM
I think our failure in Vermeil era can be attributed half to us whiffing on the Greg Robinson hire and half to not having any talent to work with on defense. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Vermeil shares the blame for us not winning with that offense for his part in hiring and staying loyal to Robinson, but I still think 80% of it was Carl.

CoMoChief
05-29-2007, 02:32 PM
Trent is a system QB.

Played behind a great Oline for many years, had the best RB in the NFL.

Didn't have any great WR's to throw to, but he did have the best TE this league has ever seen.

Trent was an avg QB that had many great players around him.

keg in kc
05-29-2007, 02:34 PM
I think our failure in Vermeil era can be attributed half to us whiffing on the Greg Robinson hire and half to not having any talent to work with on defense. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

Vermeil shares the blame for us not winning with that offense for his part in hiring and staying loyal to Robinson, but I still think 80% of it was Carl.I think the drafts and the way we only got talent out of the 2nd day (or with LJ when CP publicly went against DV) shows that the coaching staff was making decisions on day 1 of the draft. And I think that repeated failure, for years, set the team back more than anything.

Now, it's Carl's responsibility for allowing that to happen, just like he's responsible for hiring Vermeil in the first place. But he's apparently not answerable for anything as far as the Hunt family is concerned.

picasso
05-29-2007, 02:34 PM
All of you guys talk up Croyle and I don't know why.
The dude looks like Barney Fife out there as QB, he doesn't even fit into a jersey like a grown man and you think Croyle is the future of the Chiefs.
he won't last.

sedated
05-29-2007, 02:43 PM
All of you guys talk up Croyle and I don't know why.
The dude looks like Barney Fife out there as QB, he doesn't even fit into a jersey like a grown man and you think Croyle is the future of the Chiefs.
he won't last.

we could at least give him a legit chance and let him prove whether or not he can play.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 02:58 PM
we could at least give him a legit chance and let him prove whether or not he can play.

He is going to get his chance to earn the position. The idea is kind of growing on me, the guy could be great.

Chiefnj
05-29-2007, 03:35 PM
I'm not going to turn on Trent. Systems QB? Sure. But he had a heck of a heart and was a great leader. He wasn't very mobile but was always willing to run and go for the first down even if it meant getting hit. He threw some pretty impressive blocks on some plays when 99% of other QB's merely would have tried to get in a defenders way.

The team decided they wanted to move in a new direction, which is okay. Trent decided to move in a new direction, which is also okay. It's just business at this point. No point turning on a player that was 100% class while he was the starting QB.

Frazod
05-29-2007, 03:44 PM
No change here. I thought he was a complete douche before, and I still do. :grr:

stevieray
05-29-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm not going to turn on Trent. Systems QB? Sure. But he had a heck of a heart and was a great leader. He wasn't very mobile but was always willing to run and go for the first down even if it meant getting hit. He threw some pretty impressive blocks on some plays when 99% of other QB's merely would have tried to get in a defenders way.

The team decided they wanted to move in a new direction, which is okay. Trent decided to move in a new direction, which is also okay. It's just business at this point. No point turning on a player that was 100% class while he was the starting QB.

exactly. excellent post.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 03:57 PM
No change here. I thought he was a complete douche before, and I still do. :grr:

You have been consistent on this point, I will vouch for that. :moon:

TinyEvel
05-29-2007, 06:36 PM
DV cried. Cohesiveness died!

Ebolapox
05-29-2007, 06:41 PM
when vermiel was the lambs head coach, I penned a nickname for him: dick(head) (coach) vermiel

Ebolapox
05-29-2007, 06:42 PM
I'm not going to turn on Trent. Systems QB? Sure. But he had a heck of a heart and was a great leader. He wasn't very mobile but was always willing to run and go for the first down even if it meant getting hit. He threw some pretty impressive blocks on some plays when 99% of other QB's merely would have tried to get in a defenders way.

The team decided they wanted to move in a new direction, which is okay. Trent decided to move in a new direction, which is also okay. It's just business at this point. No point turning on a player that was 100% class while he was the starting QB.

let's not get it twisted, ok? trent's ok... he's OOOOKKKAAAYY... he's ok! let's not get it twisted!

KcMizzou
05-29-2007, 06:43 PM
let's not get it twisted, ok? trent's ok... he's OOOOKKKAAAYY... he's ok! let's not get it twisted!He was very, very good for us. He did a very, very fine job.

Ebolapox
05-29-2007, 06:44 PM
He was very, very good for us. He did a very, very fine job.


:deevee: :deevee:

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 06:56 PM
I'm beginning to realize that it wouldn't matter who was our quarterback or head coach. You totally hammer whoever. Dick Vermeil was a great coach, lacked a lot on assembling a defense, and was a little too impartial, but He had a great record and ability to turn teams around and carried two different teams to the Superbowl. But you're just bitter armchair quarterbacks and head coaches. As Buzz Lightyear would say, "Your just sad strange little men."

KcMizzou
05-29-2007, 06:57 PM
I'm beginning to realize that it wouldn't matter who was our quarterback or head coach. You totally hammer whoever. Dick Vermeil was a great coach, lacked a lot on assembling a defense, and was a little too impartial, but He had a great record and ability to turn teams around and carried two different teams to the Superbowl. But you're just bitter armchair quarterbacks and head coaches. As Buzz Lightyear would say, "Your just sad strange little men."It's the nature of sports. Unfortunately neither players nor coaches usually leave on a "good note". The ones who do are the lucky few.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 06:58 PM
It's the nature of sports. Unfortunately neither players nor coaches usually leave on a "good note". The one who do are the lucky few.

Yeah, then they get hammered for leaving.....come back and have a bad year then leave on a bad note again, right?

KcMizzou
05-29-2007, 06:59 PM
Yeah, then they get hammered for leaving.....come back and have a bad year then leave on a bad note again, right?I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's generally the way it is.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 07:01 PM
All of you guys talk up Croyle and I don't know why.
The dude looks like Barney Fife out there as QB, he doesn't even fit into a jersey like a grown man and you think Croyle is the future of the Chiefs.
he won't last.

BS.

He's the exact same size as Trent.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 07:02 PM
I'm beginning to realize that it wouldn't matter who was our quarterback or head coach. You totally hammer whoever. Dick Vermeil was a great coach, lacked a lot on assembling a defense, and was a little too impartial, but He had a great record and ability to turn teams around and carried two different teams to the Superbowl. But you're just bitter armchair quarterbacks and head coaches. As Buzz Lightyear would say, "Your just sad strange little men."

Are you personally related to Trent?

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 07:05 PM
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's generally the way it is.

Yeah, I know what you're saying...just don't agree with the nature. Remember Marv Levy.....I couldn't stand him while he was here. Then he went to Buffalo and was an incredible winning coach. I have a feeling that Norv Turner will do excellent at SD (which who wouldn't?). There are just so many factors to everything and it's kind of rediculous to just sit and pick everybody apart. I'm still a huge Dick Vermeil fan, wish He was still here.....still a Trent fan and think He should be here for 2 years.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 07:06 PM
Are you personally related to Trent?

No, I've never actually met him. But I've been asked that a few times on here. I do know some of his family and his conduct, but haven't had the chance to meet him personally yet.

Chiefnj2
05-29-2007, 07:20 PM
BS.

He's the exact same size as Trent.

No way.

Skip Towne
05-29-2007, 07:21 PM
I'm beginning to realize that it wouldn't matter who was our quarterback or head coach. You totally hammer whoever. Dick Vermeil was a great coach, lacked a lot on assembling a defense, and was a little too impartial, but He had a great record and ability to turn teams around and carried two different teams to the Superbowl. But you're just bitter armchair quarterbacks and head coaches. As Buzz Lightyear would say, "Your just sad strange little men."
He had a great record? He is a .500 coach.

Logical
05-29-2007, 07:22 PM
Like the youth playing, still hate Herm. Hate his offense or lack therof even more.

CoMoChief
05-29-2007, 07:28 PM
I'm beginning to realize that it wouldn't matter who was our quarterback or head coach. You totally hammer whoever. Dick Vermeil was a great coach, lacked a lot on assembling a defense, and was a little too impartial, but He had a great record and ability to turn teams around and carried two different teams to the Superbowl. But you're just bitter armchair quarterbacks and head coaches. As Buzz Lightyear would say, "Your just sad strange little men."

DV had 2 winning seasons as the Chiefs HC with only 1 playoff appearance and has a career record of just around .500

2001: 6-10
2002: 8-8
2003:13-3
2004: 7-9
2005: 10-6

That's hardly great.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 07:35 PM
No, I've never actually met him. But I've been asked that a few times on here. I do know some of his family and his conduct, but haven't had the chance to meet him personally yet.

You don't know him personally, yet you're here defending his honor tooth and nail.

:hmmm:

Looks like you're just a bitter armchair GM, just like the rest of us.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 07:36 PM
No way.

Leaning against the wall before the Sandy Eggo game, right behind the Chiefs bench. They were standing right next to each other.

Yes way.

Skip Towne
05-29-2007, 07:37 PM
BS.

He's the exact same size as Trent.
He reminds me of Joe Namath. Let's just hope he has that kind of talent.

blueballs
05-29-2007, 07:38 PM
Vermeil delegated
won or lost by his choice of assistants
Lovie was forced on him/ so was Gunther

KcMizzou
05-29-2007, 07:40 PM
We don't know jack about Croyle either way. The safe bet is that he can't cut it. Most can't.

I figure he must be showing something in practice that says he can, considering that it seems to be his job to lose. (coach-speak aside)

We'll just have to see.

htismaqe
05-29-2007, 07:47 PM
We don't know jack about Croyle either way.

Quoted for truth.

Dr. Facebook Fever
05-29-2007, 08:06 PM
I liked a lot of what DV did, and thought most of it was very timely. He brought a cohesiveness, the team’s biggest weakness when he took over IMO. The team was an embarrassment, pathetic. People were laughing at the Chiefs!


People were still laughing at the defense under Vermeil too.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 08:27 PM
He reminds me of Joe Namath. Let's just hope he has that kind of talent.

Wouldn't that be something if it worked out like that, same school.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 08:31 PM
Like the youth playing, still hate Herm. Hate his offense or lack therof even more.

I wonder if Herm didn't plan the conservative offense scenerio, to force the change to his QB?

KcMizzou
05-29-2007, 08:36 PM
I wonder if Herm didn't plan the conservative offense scenerio, to force the change to his QB?
That's a bit of a reach.

Logical
05-29-2007, 08:57 PM
You don't know him personally, yet you're here defending his honor tooth and nail.

:hmmm:

Looks like you're just a bitter armchair GM, just like the rest of us.

I don't get why you don't like Trent, yet you are infatuated with Croyle. They seem very similar in most ways to me.

HemiEd
05-29-2007, 09:13 PM
That's a bit of a reach.

You are probably right, it don't sound near as plausible to me as it did an hour ago.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 10:03 PM
You don't know him personally, yet you're here defending his honor tooth and nail.

:hmmm:

Looks like you're just a bitter armchair GM, just like the rest of us.

I know enough that you don't. I don't waste my time name insulting players, any of them. What good is that? What good is it to sit and call people "whining bitches" that I don't know anything about? Seriously, I can write and question decisions by the GM, Coaches, Players...that's fun and kinda what the planet is about to me. But some of these players are family men. Some of their families, extended families and what have you, read and keep tabs on these boards. They know what fans are saying about their people. What would you think if you were reading one of these boards and heard someone call your uncle or brother a "whiney bitch"? To me, it's stupidity. What good does that do for anybody? I really don't get tired of the armchair quarterback and GM stuff, and you're right, I am one. I really don't know if I agree with Green's approach in the media. But I'm not going to throw away all of the good that he has done with this team and in the KC community over a few months of negotiation tactics. It's not fair to him, his family or the community. Like it or not, the planet is viewed by thousands of people....some are the players' families. The fans have a voice, no question. What they do with it will have benefit and consequences for several people.

Chiefnj2
05-29-2007, 10:07 PM
Leaning against the wall before the Sandy Eggo game, right behind the Chiefs bench. They were standing right next to each other.

Yes way.

Has Trent gone on Atkins or South Beach??

Apr. 4, 2007 - 10:28 a.m. ET

The Chiefs asked Brodie Croyle to gain weight over the winter but he weighed in at 207 as the team began its offseason conditioning program.

Mr. Kotter
05-29-2007, 10:12 PM
I know enough that you don't. I don't waste my time name insulting players, any of them. What good is that? What good is it to sit and call people "whining bitches" that I don't know anything about? Seriously, I can write and question decisions by the GM, Coaches, Players...that's fun and kinda what the planet is about to me. But some of these players are family men. Some of their families, extended families and what have you, read and keep tabs on these boards. They know what fans are saying about their people. What would you think if you were reading one of these boards and heard someone call your uncle or brother a "whiney bitch"? To me, it's stupidity. What good does that do for anybody? I really don't get tired of the armchair quarterback and GM stuff, and you're right, I am one. I really don't know if I agree with Green's approach in the media. But I'm not going to throw away all of the good that he has done with this team and in the KC community over a few months of negotiation tactics. It's not fair to him, his family or the community. Like it or not, the planet is viewed by thousands of people....some are the players' families. The fans have a voice, no question. What they do with it will have benefit and consequences for several people.'

:spock:

Can you SERIOUSLY look at yourself in the mirror and say, "Trent Green (after all that's been said and done in the media, BY HIM....in the past few weeks) is NOT a whiney bitch!" Seriously?

You should try it; I bet you can't keep a straight face. In the new "Urban Dictionary" Trent Green's face should now appear on the entry: "whiney bitch." I'm dead serious.

And I STILL like the dude. I STILL think he's the second best QB we've ever had. I STILL hope he's our starter on day one, THIS season. Fact is, though, he's become the epitome of "whiney bitch" in my book....by HIS ACTIONS over the past couple of months.:shake:

Trent just needs to S.T.F.D and S.T.F.U.....this is almost worse than Iverson's "A man's gotta feed his family" crap a couple of years back. :shake:

blueballs
05-29-2007, 10:13 PM
I'm a better person than you dumbasses
saying it is so proves it
ivory towers get me so hot

Logical
05-29-2007, 10:31 PM
'

:spock:

Can you SERIOUSLY look at yourself in the mirror and say, "Trent Green (after all that's been said and done in the media, BY HIM....in the past few weeks) is NOT a whiney bitch!" Seriously?

You should try it; I bet you can't keep a straight face. In the new "Urban Dictionary" Trent Green's face should now appear on the entry: "whiney bitch." I'm dead serious.

And I STILL like the dude. I STILL think he's the second best QB we've ever had. I STILL hope he's our starter on day one, THIS season. Fact is, though, he's become the epitome of "whiney bitch" in my book....by HIS ACTIONS over the past couple of months.:shake:

Trent just needs to S.T.F.D and S.T.F.U.....this is almost worse than Iverson's "A man's gotta feed his family" crap a couple of years back. :shake:

I don't think he is a whiney bitch, I think he is smart. He is keeping it in the media glare and creating neg pub for the Chiefs. He has managed to make the excessive stupidity of Carl well known throughout the league. I like Trent even more now than before for further exposing Carl for the douchebag that he really is.

Mr. Kotter
05-29-2007, 10:34 PM
I don't think he is a whiney bitch, I think he is smart. He is keeping it in the media glare and creating neg pub for the Chiefs. He has managed to make the excessive stupidity of Carl well known throughout the league. I like Trent even more now than before for further exposing Carl for the douchebag that he really is.
I don't like Carl either. That doesn't change things though.

In this case, Trent is a whiney bitch. He has $7 million reasons to sit his ass down, and S.T.F.U.

Period.

Direckshun
05-29-2007, 10:41 PM
Like the youth playing, still hate Herm. Hate his offense or lack therof even more.
The Chiefs offense was 16th in the league last year.

Loads of room for improvement, but that's not a complete lack of offense.

Better LT.
Better WRs.
Depth at RB.

Offense can go upward this year.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 10:41 PM
I'm a better person than you dumbasses
saying it is so proves it
ivory towers get me so hot

Well, folks who can't make their point without rediculous insults against anybody that doesn't agree with them proves ignorance. Prove that you are better some other way, this isn't working.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 10:45 PM
I don't like Carl either. That doesn't change things though.

In this case, Trent is a whiney bitch. He has $7 million reasons to sit his ass down, and S.T.F.U.

Period.

When are you going to understand that he doesn't have $7 million? He's not going to get it regardless unless Atlanta or somebody else moves on him. Period. Try again.

Bob Dole
05-29-2007, 10:50 PM
Offense can go upward this year.

Do you really expect that to happen after watching the devolution from 2005 to 2006?

Mr. Kotter
05-29-2007, 10:51 PM
When are you going to understand that he doesn't have $7 million? He's not going to get it regardless unless Atlanta or somebody else moves on him. Period. Try again.

He's not going to get it? You KNOW that for a fact?

If he were to earn the job, it's his. Otherwise, he should S.T.F.U.

IMHO :)

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 11:02 PM
He's not going to get it? You KNOW that for a fact?

If he were to earn the job, it's his. Otherwise, he should S.T.F.U.

IMHO :)

So you really think that He would get an opportunity to earn his job back? You don't think that they have every intention of releasing him before the pre-season if they don't get their trade level? My guess is that He would have to sign for about 2-3 million and now, there has been too much dissagreement; he won't. I'm not saying that I agree with him in it. I don't necessarily disagree with the Chief's bargaining tactics, obviously, it is Carl's job to use what ever leverage he has left to get the best for his money. It's a time game....how bad does Miami or whoever want Trent to get acclamated into their system. It's just the way it is...but it's not an accurate support to use 7 mil for your argument.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 11:09 PM
It is a fact known from the beginning that Peterson told Trent that he was going to have to re-negotiate his contract for a lot less, then compete for his job. So the 7 million is out of the question as I understand it. Correct me if you have other news.

Mr. Kotter
05-29-2007, 11:11 PM
So you really think that He would get an opportunity to earn his job back? You don't think that they have every intention of releasing him before the pre-season if they don't get their trade level? My guess is that He would have to sign for about 2-3 million and now, there has been too much dissagreement; he won't. I'm not saying that I agree with him in it. I don't necessarily disagree with the Chief's bargaining tactics, obviously, it is Carl's job to use what ever leverage he has left to get the best for his money. It's a time game....how bad does Miami or whoever want Trent to get acclamated into their system. It's just the way it is...but it's not an accurate support to use 7 mil for your argument.

I don't think the QB situation is a done-deal, on any level at this point. Croyle could disappoint. He could get injured. He may need another year of seasoning on the bench. At worse, Trent would be a great guy to have on the bench. Afterall, he is STILL under contract with the Chiefs. He signed the deal. And....sorry, but Huard is a stop gap measure at best.

Okay, worse case scenario....Trent competes and wins the job. And then has to "settle" for $3 million or so a year for this year. BTW, if he were to "win" that competition....the pressure to pay Trent more would THEN be on Carl.

Whether we are talking about $3 or $7 million doesn't matter to me; he's CURRENTLY under contract for the Chiefs.

And, IMO....he's been nothing but a whiney bitch about it ever since the Dolphins tried to low-ball us on draft day. Pretty simple really.

If he wants to whine, it ought to be to the Dolphins.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 11:22 PM
Well, I hope that you are right. But it is extremely wishful thinking.

Logical
05-29-2007, 11:25 PM
I don't like Carl either. That doesn't change things though.

In this case, Trent is a whiney bitch. He has $7 million reasons to sit his ass down, and S.T.F.U.

Period.

You know better, Trent will be cut and lose the 7mil if he does not get to move on to Miami.

KCBOSS1
05-29-2007, 11:29 PM
Croyle, Huard & Printers......there's your KC quarterbacks this year.

MadMax
05-29-2007, 11:38 PM
The Chiefs offense was 16th in the league last year.

Loads of room for improvement, but that's not a complete lack of offense.

Better LT.
Better WRs.
Depth at RB.

Offense can go upward this year.


Heh, I would agree, but not with Solari unless they gave him a labotomy in the offseason....Or does Herm call the plays? I don't think so personally but others here believe otherwise. :p As usuall too many?? to really know, just gotta hope for the best or find another team (not an option here) I do finally feel we are building for the future and I guess I can dig that...:) After just one year I don't think anyone should judge Herm yet, but hey I have been patient for a long long time. I don't like Carl but wtf can ya do?

ChiefsCountry
05-29-2007, 11:43 PM
I wonder if Herm didn't plan the conservative offense scenerio, to force the change to his QB?

More like losing your All-World Left Tackle on the eve of training camp. That hurt the offfense more than anything. Basically at the beginning of training camp, most thought the two things that could really screw our offense was A) Losing Roaf B) Losing Trent.

Bob Dole
05-29-2007, 11:49 PM
More like losing your All-World Left Tackle on the eve of training camp. That hurt the offfense more than anything. Basically at the beginning of training camp, most thought the two things that could really screw our offense was A) Losing Roaf B) Losing Trent.

Even the creative playcalling in that playoff game couldn't disguise that.

Mr. Kotter
05-30-2007, 07:32 AM
You know better, Trent will be cut and lose the 7mil if he does not get to move on to Miami.

Bottom-line:

He is UNDER CONTRACT with the Chiefs.

End of story, really. At least as far as the Chiefs are concerned.

HemiEd
05-30-2007, 07:55 AM
More like losing your All-World Left Tackle on the eve of training camp. That hurt the offfense more than anything. Basically at the beginning of training camp, most thought the two things that could really screw our offense was A) Losing Roaf B) Losing Trent.

Rewind to the first play the Chiefs had in the "playoff" game. Why did we run up Will Shields ass with the ball, when everyone was expecting that play? What was that about?

Buehler445
05-30-2007, 08:13 AM
Rewind to the first play the Chiefs had in the "playoff" game. Why did we run up Will Shields ass with the ball, when everyone was expecting that play? What was that about?

Yes God forbid we run a Play action pass.

HemiEd
05-30-2007, 09:57 AM
Yes God forbid we run a Play action pass.

That could have changed a lot of things.

Brock
05-30-2007, 10:08 AM
I wanted to like Vermeil. I liked some of the things he did a lot, like making Priest Holmes into the best Chiefs running back any of us have ever seen. But the bottom line is, he built a soft team with no mental toughness, his drafts were an abysmal disaster, and he continually made excuses for players and coaches who didn't produce. I also like Trent Green, but he needs to realize this team owes him nothing but a paycheck. He's acting like he's Joe Montana or something.

HemiEd
05-30-2007, 11:32 AM
But the bottom line is, he built a soft team with no mental toughness, his drafts were an abysmal disaster, and he continually made excuses for players and coaches who didn't produce. I also like Trent Green, but he needs to realize this team owes him nothing but a paycheck. He's acting like he's Joe Montana or something.

I am coming to the same conclusion, thus the thread. I have defended Vermeil tooth and nail on this board, Trent exposed my error to me.

milkman
05-30-2007, 08:27 PM
I am going to take this opportunity to say that I was right about Dick.

I hated that he was hired, and hated it more when Tagliabue awarded a 2nd round pick to the Rams as compensation for Dick.

HemiEd
05-30-2007, 08:34 PM
I am going to take this opportunity to say that I was right about Dick.

I hated that he was hired, and hated it more when Tagliabue awarded a 2nd round pick to the Rams as compensation for Dick.

Yes Tagliabue pretty much bent the Chiefs over for Dick and Trent.

To show you how little I knew about the subject, I was more upset with the compensation for Trent.

Of course, I had not found the Planet yet and was only getting whatever news came from the Chiefs and the Star.

KcMizzou
05-30-2007, 08:36 PM
I wanted to like Vermeil. I liked some of the things he did a lot, like making Priest Holmes into the best Chiefs running back any of us have ever seen. But the bottom line is, he built a soft team with no mental toughness, his drafts were an abysmal disaster, and he continually made excuses for players and coaches who didn't produce. I also like Trent Green, but he needs to realize this team owes him nothing but a paycheck. He's acting like he's Joe Montana or something.That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

Good post.

Frazod
05-30-2007, 08:41 PM
That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

Good post.

That sums up PART of it. He also had no clue what do with a defense, and should have never been allowed anywhere near one.

But his waste of all that talent on offense - that's just criminal. All we needed was a MEDIOCRE defense. Just a middle of the road defense, and we win at least one Super Bowl. But we got Greg f#cking Robinson and the spinner, and assurances that Dexter McCleon was the greatest cornerback in the history of football. :#

Slick32
05-30-2007, 09:32 PM
DV had 2 winning seasons as the Chiefs HC with only 1 playoff appearance and has a career record of just around .500

2001: 6-10
2002: 8-8
2003:13-3
2004: 7-9
2005: 10-6

That's hardly great.

Not that I'm that great with math but around .500 and .550 is a little off the mark. 44-36 in KC.

I'm not DV fan, he did to the defense what Herman is doing to the offense. I just hope that someone sees the light before Herman is her 5 years and has virtually the same or worse mark than DV.

Slick32
05-30-2007, 09:34 PM
I wonder if Herm didn't plan the conservative offense scenerio, to force the change to his QB?

The current HC is not offensively minded enough to do that. He is really good with defense but just not there for the offense. He needs a top of the line OC that has control of the game when the offense is on the field. It will never happen, but that's what he needs to succeed.

Logical
05-30-2007, 09:36 PM
Not that I'm that great with math but around .500 and .550 is a little off the mark. 44-36 in KC.

I'm not DV fan, he did to the defense what Herman is doing to the offense. I just hope that someone sees the light before Herman is her 5 years and has virtually the same or worse mark than DV.

This is what you get with Carl, an incompetent GM who hires his buddies despite their terrible shortcomings and we get the average results year after year.

blueballs
05-30-2007, 09:36 PM
after being overlooked for HC twice
no way in hell Saunders would stay on
Solari was a logical choice

Slick32
05-30-2007, 09:39 PM
He's not going to get it? You KNOW that for a fact?

If he were to earn the job, it's his. Otherwise, he should S.T.F.U.

IMHO :)

Don't you have to have an opportunity to win the job to win the job?

He will neither stfu nor get an opportunity to do anything in KC.

Huard needs to be cut/traded or whatever. Croyle needs to be QB and the Chiefs need to commit to it. Keeping Huard would be a contingency plan, not keeping an experienced backup. Croyle gets the start and Huard is there hanging over his shoulder. One screwup and Croyle is on the bench and Huard is the starter. Not a good scenario. Croyle needs to learn in a trial by fire. 16 games this year and next. It worked for some dude named Aikman.

Slick32
05-30-2007, 09:40 PM
This is what you get with Carl, an incompetent GM who hires his buddies despite their terrible shortcomings and we get the average results year after year.

I think you are wrong. CP is a good GM, he just sucks at naming Head Coaches.

Be honest, each time he brought in a new HC, did you not like the chances of bringing in the guy he did? Everyone liked Marty..for a while. Gunther was a popular coach... for a while. DV was popular... for a while. HE, no news yet but everyone was excited that he was signed.

Logical
05-30-2007, 09:53 PM
I think you are wrong. CP is a good GM, he just sucks at naming Head Coaches.

Be honest, each time he brought in a new HC, did you not like the chances of bringing in the guy he did? Everyone liked Marty..for a while. Gunther was a popular coach... for a while. DV was popular... for a while. HE, no news yet but everyone was excited that he was signed.

Hated Gunther and hated Herm otherwise yes I liked Marty when he was brought in and DV as well.

milkman
05-30-2007, 10:04 PM
Hated Gunther and hated Herm otherwise yes I liked Marty when he was brought in and DV as well.

I have been unhappy with every coach that Carl hired from the minute they were hired.

Slick32
05-30-2007, 10:07 PM
Hated Gunther and hated Herm otherwise yes I liked Marty when he was brought in and DV as well.

I'm not yet an Edwards fan. Marty was great until we found out that he changed his spots between the regular season and the playoffs.

Gunther was a good DC, he was just out of his league as a HC.

DV was exciting on offense but was solely responsible for the defense dying a slow painful death.

I fear HE will be the same only with the offense.

My best shot would be that we get a quality OC that has control of the offense when they are on the field. As I said, HE is fine as a defensive coach but he is inept as an offensive coach.

HemiEd
05-31-2007, 04:46 AM
Hated Gunther and hated Herm otherwise yes I liked Marty when he was brought in and DV as well.

I petty much agree with you to the letter, except I was really trying to be open minded about Herm. It didn't take long for him to justify my dislike for the hire.

I hope like heck he proves me wrong.

HemiEd
05-31-2007, 03:57 PM
I have been unhappy with every coach that Carl hired from the minute they were hired.

Who would you have preferred he hired instead of Herm? I know I was hoping for some new, fresh, fired up younger blood.

blueballs
05-31-2007, 04:03 PM
the only HC I have read Milkman
talk about as a possible Chief is
Marvin Lewis

keg in kc
05-31-2007, 04:08 PM
Milkman is Frank Gansz!

HemiEd
05-31-2007, 06:02 PM
Milkman is Frank Gansz!

Well he knows enough about football to be him, but if he is, he didn't do so well as a head coach.

Mile High Mania
05-31-2007, 06:12 PM
Recently, I am developing some cracks in my Dick

I'm sure there's an ointment for that kind of thing...

Frazod
05-31-2007, 06:24 PM
I'm sure there's an ointment for that kind of thing...

Heh. I'm surprised it took two days and 100 posts for somebody to hop on that one. :D

Logical
05-31-2007, 07:55 PM
Milkman is Frank Gansz!

I hope he can spell his own name then.:D

HemiEd
05-31-2007, 09:52 PM
Heh. I'm surprised it took two days and 100 posts for somebody to hop on that one. :D

No kidding, I left that teed up pretty high.

RadeAM
05-31-2007, 10:49 PM
STEEL ONE OFF