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View Full Version : Tony Gonzalez shouldn't go to the Hall of Fame.


Direckshun
06-01-2007, 12:17 PM
Because Todd Christensen, who can't get in, was better.

According to (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/06/01/mailbag/2.html) Dr. Z.

:rolleyes:

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-01-2007, 12:18 PM
ROFL ROFL.

It's June 1, not April 1, you dumb sonofabitch.

OnTheWarpath58
06-01-2007, 12:28 PM
461 Receptions

5872 Yards

41 TD's

11 Seasons




Compared to:




721 Receptions

8710 Yards

61 TD's

10 Seasons


Not even close.

Who is he kidding?

Reerun_KC
06-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Shannon "Mush Mouth" Sharpe is better than both of them... He has the rings to back it up....

TG is a first ballot HOF.. NO question about it.. Christensen can suck ass, He is a major dipsh*t tool bag!

ChiefsFan4Life
06-01-2007, 12:38 PM
Dr. Z should write for kcchiefs.com - his stuff is equally as bad

StcChief
06-01-2007, 12:39 PM
So Dr. Z gets to vote on HOF candidates? God I hope not.

pikesome
06-01-2007, 12:44 PM
So Dr. Z gets to vote on HOF candidates? God I hope not.

I'm pretty sure he's on the committee.

Direckshun
06-01-2007, 12:44 PM
He is.

Reerun_KC
06-01-2007, 12:50 PM
He is.


He is such a blowass... He might do what he can to try and keep TG out... But it wont matter... TG will walk in....

SCTrojan
06-01-2007, 12:55 PM
Zimmerman is a sanctimonious blowhard. He's played the whole passive-aggressive game with DT for years.

I think he's been voting for HOF people so long he actually believes his freaking opinions have some sort of merit.

Chief Chief
06-01-2007, 01:00 PM
Todd blew it with the voters when he appeared as a co-host of "American Gladiators"!

siberian khatru
06-01-2007, 01:01 PM
Wow, I'd love to see him expand on and defend that assertion.

pikesome
06-01-2007, 01:13 PM
Wow, I'd love to see him expand on and defend that assertion.

You have to ask for wine recommendations to get much in the way of good information from him.

I'd like someone to argue that Christensen was, in fact, better. Those stats don't seem to be even close. Maybe he was a monster blocker?

OnTheWarpath58
06-01-2007, 01:19 PM
You have to ask for wine recommendations to get much in the way of good information from him.

I'd like someone to argue that Christensen was, in fact, better. Those stats don't seem to be even close. Maybe he was a monster blocker?

He could block like Will Shields, Jonathan Odgen and Bruce Matthews COMBINED and still not sniff TG's jock......

beer bacon
06-01-2007, 01:34 PM
It also doesn't help Z's case that at this point in his career, TG is actually a good blocker.

DaneMcCloud
06-01-2007, 02:43 PM
I hate defending a Raider but Todd Christensen was a pretty special player. He was part of a very dynamic offense (along with Marcus Allen) and IIRC, he helped the Raiders win two Super Bowls. He led the league in receptions twice, and his 349 receptions from 1983-86 were a then NFL record.

I think what Dr. Z is saying is that Christensen should be in the HOF before Gonzalez, not that Gonzalez does not belong.

Stewie
06-01-2007, 02:49 PM
I hate defending a Raider but Todd Christensen was a pretty special player. He was part of a very dynamic offense (along with Marcus Allen) and IIRC, he helped the Raiders win two Super Bowls. He led the league in receptions twice, and his 349 receptions from 1983-86 were a then NFL record.

I think what Dr. Z is saying is that Christensen should be in the HOF before Gonzalez, not that Gonzalez does not belong.

Christensen was not the primary target like TG, nor covered by the D like TG. He was the 2nd/3rd receiver in patterns who caught alot of 7 yard passes and gained another 8 because no defender was around. He does NOT belong in the HOF.

dtebbe
06-01-2007, 02:54 PM
I will honestly be happy when "Dr" Z assumes room temerature. He is a class A asshole.

DT

DaneMcCloud
06-01-2007, 03:01 PM
Christensen was not the primary target like TG, nor covered by the D like TG. He was the 2nd/3rd receiver in patterns who caught alot of 7 yard passes and gained another 8 because no defender was around. He does NOT belong in the HOF.

Christensen caught 92 passes for a career high 1,247 yards and 12 touchdowns, and earned the first of his five trips to the Pro Bowl for his efforts. His total catches led the NFL, making him the second tight end to ever do this (Kellen Winslow was the other).

Christensen topped 1,000 yards again in 1984, catching 82 passes in the process. He hit 80 receptions again the following year, just missing 1,000 yards by 13 yards.

1986 was Christensen's last big season statistically. He would end the year with a career high and league leading 95 receptions, for 1,153 yards and 8 touchdowns. He also became the first tight end in history to catch 90 passes twice in a career.[I]Christensen caught 92 passes for a career high 1,247 yards and 12 touchdowns, and earned the first of his five trips to the Pro Bowl for his efforts. His total catches led the NFL, making him the second tight end to ever do this (Kellen Winslow was the other).

Keep in mind that D-backs and linebackers back then could absolutely mug receivers and tight ends.

I don't know what other tight ends are in the HOF and what their numbers are, but I can't remember any tight end in the 1980's besides Kellen that stood out.

Also, Dr. Z has been an active advocate for getting older players into the HOF (like Harry Carson this year), so his perspective is a little different.

That being said, there's no way that TG will be left out of the HOF, regardless of Christensen's status.

shaneo69
06-01-2007, 03:10 PM
That being said, there's no way that TG will be left out of the HOF, regardless of Christensen's status.

Well, unless Gretz starts out his TG HOF presentation by saying, "Now I know some of you here may be concerned about the fact that Tony was a one-dimensional player who couldn't block, but I'm here today to assure you that that wasn't the case."

Stewie
06-01-2007, 03:13 PM
Christensen caught 92 passes for a career high 1,247 yards and 12 touchdowns, and earned the first of his five trips to the Pro Bowl for his efforts. His total catches led the NFL, making him the second tight end to ever do this (Kellen Winslow was the other).

Christensen topped 1,000 yards again in 1984, catching 82 passes in the process. He hit 80 receptions again the following year, just missing 1,000 yards by 13 yards.

1986 was Christensen's last big season statistically. He would end the year with a career high and league leading 95 receptions, for 1,153 yards and 8 touchdowns. He also became the first tight end in history to catch 90 passes twice in a career.[I]Christensen caught 92 passes for a career high 1,247 yards and 12 touchdowns, and earned the first of his five trips to the Pro Bowl for his efforts. His total catches led the NFL, making him the second tight end to ever do this (Kellen Winslow was the other).

Keep in mind that D-backs and linebackers back then could absolutely mug receivers and tight ends.

I don't know what other tight ends are in the HOF and what their numbers are, but I can't remember any tight end in the 1980's besides Kellen that stood out.

Also, Dr. Z has been an active advocate for getting older players into the HOF (like Harry Carson this year), so his perspective is a little different.

That being said, there's no way that TG will be left out of the HOF, regardless of Christensen's status.


Whoop-dee-do! It's easy when no one covers you. LA/Oakland had many more offensive weapons in the early 80s than the Chiefs ever had. TC was never the focus, he just benefited from being a stealth player.

ClevelandBronco
06-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I don't know what other tight ends are in the HOF and what their numbers are, but I can't remember any tight end in the 1980's besides Kellen that stood out.

Ahem...

OZZIE NEWSOME
HOF Class of 1999
Tight End >>> 6-2, 232
(Alabama)
1978-1990 Cleveland Browns

Ozzie Newsome, Jr...Browns’ first round draft pick, 1978...Nicknamed “Wizard of Oz”...Became instant team leader...Retired as all-time leading tight end receiver, fourth among all receivers...Career stats: 662 receptions 7,980 yards, 47 TDs...Recorded career-best 89 catches in 1983, repeated feat in 1984...Caught pass in 150 consecutive games...All-Pro, 1979, 1984...Named to three Pro Bowls...Born March 16, 1956, in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

DaneMcCloud
06-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Ahem...

OZZIE NEWSOME
HOF Class of 1999
Tight End >>> 6-2, 232
(Alabama)
1978-1990 Cleveland Browns

Ozzie Newsome, Jr...Browns’ first round draft pick, 1978...Nicknamed “Wizard of Oz”...Became instant team leader...Retired as all-time leading tight end receiver, fourth among all receivers...Career stats: 662 receptions 7,980 yards, 47 TDs...Recorded career-best 89 catches in 1983, repeated feat in 1984...Caught pass in 150 consecutive games...All-Pro, 1979, 1984...Named to three Pro Bowls...Born March 16, 1956, in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

So why isn't Christensen in the HOF? He went to 5 Pro Bowls, won 2 Super Bowls and put up great numbers (at the time) for a tight end.

I don't really care, but it is curious...

kcchiefsus
06-01-2007, 04:20 PM
Shannon "Mush Mouth" Sharpe is better than both of them... He has the rings to back it up....

TG is a first ballot HOF.. NO question about it.. Christensen can suck ass, He is a major dipsh*t tool bag!

Who gives a crap about the rings. Dan Marino is one of the best quarterbacks of all time and he has nothing to show for super bowl rings.

Rings are less important for a tight end who has less control over the outcome of a game.

Super bowl rings mean nothing for a tight end. Tony Gonzalez will have passed up just about all of Shannon Sharpe's records in less time than it took Sharpe to get there.

Mile High Mania
06-01-2007, 04:25 PM
Who gives a crap about the rings. Dan Marino is one of the best quarterbacks of all time and he has nothing to show for super bowl rings.

Rings are less important for a tight end who has less control over the outcome of a game.

Super bowl rings mean nothing for a tight end. Tony Gonzalez will have passed up just about all of Shannon Sharpe's records in less time than it took Sharpe to get there.

Says the fan of the man with no rings...

Cannon1987
06-01-2007, 05:20 PM
Dr Z is a retard, Tony G is the Bombomb

KcMizzou
06-01-2007, 05:22 PM
Says the fan of the man with no rings...Do you think Super Bowl rings should be a big factor in wether a TE makes the hall?

I don't.

I can understand it more with a QB... even a RB, to an extent. TE, not so much.

blueballs
06-01-2007, 05:29 PM
a Dr in dumbassery

Saggysack
06-01-2007, 05:33 PM
I will honestly be happy when "Dr" Z assumes room temerature. He is a class A asshole.

DT

Am I the only one to see the irony in this post?

Logical
06-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Do you think Super Bowl rings should be a big factor in wether a TE makes the hall?

I don't.

I can understand it more with a QB... even a RB, to an extent. TE, not so much.

Does not matter what we think, what matters is what the voters act upon. You can check the history players on SB teams are more likely to get voted in no matter what the position.

Cannon1987
06-01-2007, 07:50 PM
What does "Dr. Z" specialize in? Mental disability?

mdstu
06-01-2007, 08:19 PM
Do you think Super Bowl rings should be a big factor in wether a TE makes the hall?

I don't.

I can understand it more with a QB... even a RB, to an extent. TE, not so much.

I'd say that Sharpe was a major reason that the Ravens won a SB.

I still hate him though.

milkman
06-01-2007, 09:25 PM
Does not matter what we think, what matters is what the voters act upon. You can check the history players on SB teams are more likely to get voted in no matter what the position.

You're are absolutely correct.

Somewhere along the line the voters lost sight of the fact that the HoF is supposed to honor great INDIVIDUAL players, and team accomplishments are not supposed to be determining factor.

But then you get a bunch of dumbass writers in a room together, and you can be sure they are going to **** it up.

Fruit Ninja
06-01-2007, 10:08 PM
Christiansen was good, but Dr.Z needs to be dick slapped.

Pitt Gorilla
06-01-2007, 10:15 PM
For all the Carl-bashing that people do, he got this one right. We could have ended up with David LeFleur.

ChiefaRoo
06-02-2007, 12:00 AM
What a bunch of crap. Todd Christensen wouldn't start on the majority of NFL teams today. Todd Heap will be a MUCH better TE by the time it's all said and done if he doesn't get injured and Tony Gonzalez is an order of magnitude better than Heap. Plus he's a fooking Raider and I hate his curly mullet.

Skip Towne
06-02-2007, 07:56 PM
Christensen was a RB. Wore #46.

OnTheWarpath58
06-02-2007, 08:22 PM
Christiansen was good, but Dr.Z needs to be dick slapped.

Exactly.

It's the Hall Of Fame.

Not the Hall of Pretty Good For His Era.

And Milkman has it right: The writers have lost sight of what the HOF is supposed to be about....individual excellence.

Buehler445
06-02-2007, 11:21 PM
Zimmerman drives me crazy. He argues against DT because he is 1-dimensional. Horsepoop. It is amazing to me that people can argue that DT is not one of the best that has ever played. I hope to Christ that SI gives their vote to somebody else. He is taking a "sobatical" to write a book, and hopefully will have to give up his vote to another writer. TG is f'ing amazing and belongs in the HOF, even if he retired tomorrow.

I don't know too much about Christensen, but I watch TG compared to every other tight end on other teams. He is the only dude on the team that can catch a ball, and teams know it. And then he goes and does it EVERY TIME. If you look at Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, and Alge Crumpler, who put up nice stats, IMO they don't block half as good as TG, and everybody in the secondary is worried about something else (everybody on the Colts offense, LT, and Vick running) scoring. Gonzalez amazes me every game. HOF talent no doubt.

greg63
06-03-2007, 02:19 AM
I thought Fatlock was bad! :shake:

Deberg_1990
06-03-2007, 02:31 AM
You're are absolutely correct.

Somewhere along the line the voters lost sight of the fact that the HoF is supposed to honor great INDIVIDUAL players, and team accomplishments are not supposed to be determining factor.

But then you get a bunch of dumbass writers in a room together, and you can be sure they are going to **** it up.


Well said. They spend too much time overanalyzing this stuff.


and yes, ill say it again, if DT and TG played on the east coast their whole careers, there would be no arguments. East Coast bias in full effect. Oh well, hes only one vote.

sedated
06-03-2007, 03:06 AM
Somewhere along the line the voters lost sight of the fact that the HoF is supposed to honor great INDIVIDUAL players, and team accomplishments are not supposed to be determining factor.

b-b-but..a great individual can carry a team to the super bowl.

especially a tight end.

pure domination of the history of the position means nothing.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I can't believe that dipshit could even consider saying anything like this.

this shit makes me wanna puke.

Anyong Bluth
06-03-2007, 04:14 AM
Says the fan of the man with no rings...

First, getting a SB is a huge deal, but there have been a number of players that have not won one that are more than deserving. You can run through a list of Bills players from the early 90's that more than fit the bill. As for TG, this article is nothing more than Dr. Z drumming up support, plain and simple. I have plenty of friends that are Donkey, Charger, & Raider fans, that regardless of their team allegiance would be the first to say that TG is a 1st ballot HOF'r. The guy was drafted by us at 17 (if I remember correctly), and we moved up to get him, which if you've ever followed the Chiefs is a rare occasion to actually move up to get a player. He has more than enough stats to fill out the sheet for his being worthy and more importantly, he redefined what a modern era TE means. His speed, athleticism, and game play more than dictate that he is and will be for a long time the definition of redefining the TE position within the NFL.

ChiefaRoo
06-03-2007, 05:23 AM
Christensen was a RB. Wore #46.

He was a TE Skip. He just wore the number. Jesus, you're a tard
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ChriTo00.htm

milkman
06-03-2007, 07:43 AM
First, getting a SB is a huge deal, but there have been a number of players that have not won one that are more than deserving. You can run through a list of Bills players from the early 90's that more than fit the bill. As for TG, this article is nothing more than Dr. Z drumming up support, plain and simple. I have plenty of friends that are Donkey, Charger, & Raider fans, that regardless of their team allegiance would be the first to say that TG is a 1st ballot HOF'r. The guy was drafted by us at 17 (if I remember correctly), and we moved up to get him, which if you've ever followed the Chiefs is a rare occasion to actually move up to get a player. He has more than enough stats to fill out the sheet for his being worthy and more importantly, he redefined what a modern era TE means. His speed, athleticism, and game play more than dictate that he is and will be for a long time the definition of redefining the TE position within the NFL.

TG may or may not be the best at his position ever, but that's another debate.

However, the fact is that Ozzie Newsome and Kellen Winslow are the guys who redefined the position.

craneref
06-03-2007, 08:43 AM
Dr. Z is an idiot, Christiansen wasn't even the best TE to wear the Raider uniform, that was Dave Casper. To say that Christiansen is better than TG is to say that if TG was a current Radier he would only be the third best ever TE for them, what a crock.How many Super Bowls did Kllen Winslow and Ozzie Newsome win between them...ZERO...does that make their accomplishments less, of course not. With this theory of Superbowls, that makes Christiansen better than those two also. Dr. Z says some serious questionable things, I guess the Dr. title gies him the right! ROFL GO CHIEFS!

Sully
06-03-2007, 09:08 AM
What a bunch of crap. Todd Christensen wouldn't start on the majority of NFL teams today.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but this is the stupidest argument people make in these instances. you can take 99% of the players from 20 years ago, and they wouldn't start on the majority of NFL teams today. Players are bigger and faster across the board. The Steelers Defense would be killed in today's NFL.

Demonpenz
06-03-2007, 09:17 AM
there was a 3rd and nine last year against the browns. In the back of the endzone and TG went 10 yards and kicked out a linebacker that opened up a hole for LJ. No other TE would have been that athletic and have enough Zest to kick the guy out. Gates probably could have gotten there but he wasn't bringing the attitude that TG was.

blueballs
06-03-2007, 09:57 AM
Tony G must have nailed
a daughter or two