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View Full Version : Herm, please make up your mind.


Chiefnj
06-04-2007, 08:32 AM
Did you, or didn't you, change the offense last year?

Q&A with HERM EDWARDS - 6/3
Jun 03, 2007, 2:19:57 PM

Mini-Camp, Day 3 Ė Highlights



Q: Does the offense have to evolve or change at all this year? Last year you kept saying itís not changing or it didnít change. Every quarterback has said it has changed.

EDWARDS: ďYouíre daggone right. Thatís exactly right. Iíll take the hit for last year too because I changed it a whole lot. Itís changed some and itís changed to accommodate our players. Thatís what you feel to realize. You can draw these things up on paper and say this really looks good. But you have to evaluate your football team as we did last year and say there are some things we need to differently to protect and enhance what our players can do. Itís a good thing and change makes you grow.Ē

htismaqe
06-04-2007, 08:37 AM
Have you HEARD the quote?

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 08:38 AM
EDWARDS: ďYouíre daggone right. Thatís exactly right. Iíll take the hit for last year too because I changed it a whole lot. Itís changed some and itís changed to accommodate our players. Thatís what you feel to realize. You can draw these things up on paper and say this really looks good. But you have to evaluate your football team as we did last year and say there are some things we need to differently to protect and enhance what our players can do. Itís a good thing and change makes you grow.Ē


I just lost 200 IQ points for reading that....

Dammit Herm! :cuss:

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 08:38 AM
Had Trent Green not been beheaded in the opener, I don't think things would have changed much. At least not this much.

The changes were pretty much forced considering things had to be scaled back for Huard, and probably to a degree now for Croyle.

I'd much rather the coach recognize this and make necessary changes than to ask his players to do things they are not capable of.

I guess I just don't get as worked up about this subject as the fans of DV's circus offense do. We could run the ball 80% of the time, and I'd be happy as long as the result is a W.

htismaqe
06-04-2007, 08:39 AM
I just lost 200 IQ points for reading that....

Dammit Herm! :cuss:

I hope you know that no standard scale for measuring IQ registers an IQ of negative 150. :D

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 08:39 AM
I just lost 200 IQ points for reading that....

Dammit Herm! :cuss:

So your IQ is -125 now?

:p

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 08:40 AM
I hope you know that no standard scale for measuring IQ registers an IQ of negative 150. :D

DAMMIT PARKER!!

:banghead:

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 08:40 AM
So your IQ is -125 now?

:p


Pretty much, I am hosed!

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 08:41 AM
I hope you know that no standard scale for measuring IQ registers an IQ of negative 150. :D


So which is it -150 or -125?

htismaqe
06-04-2007, 08:41 AM
So which is it -150 or -125?

Depends on which scale you're using. :D

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 08:43 AM
Depends on which scale you're using. :D


ROFL...

Brock
06-04-2007, 08:45 AM
He should have said "no, we didn't think Willie Roaf leaving would make any difference, and when we lost our starting QB on day one, we were pretty sure that there was no need to make any adjustments."

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 08:53 AM
Run Run Run Punt

Bob Dole
06-04-2007, 08:53 AM
I guess I just don't get as worked up about this subject as the fans of DV's circus offense do. We could run the ball 80% of the time, and I'd be happy as long as the result is a W.

True. It was an absolute JOY to watch 3.5 quarters of football at Indy just waiting for a first down.

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 09:04 AM
True. It was an absolute JOY to watch 3.5 quarters of football at Indy just waiting for a first down.

And my point was that had the result been a win, I wouldn't have cared.

And this so-called Run-Run-Pass-Punt theory is overblown.

We went 6-1 last year in games where we attempted 25 passes or less, the lone loss coming @ Denver.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 09:04 AM
And my point was that had the result been a win, I wouldn't have cared.

And this so-called Run-Run-Pass-Punt theory is overblown.

We went 6-1 last year in games where we attempted 25 passes or less, the lone loss coming @ Denver.

Run, Pass, Run, Punt.

Mr. Laz
06-04-2007, 09:09 AM
i couldn't sworn all last year Herm and his buddies said that the offense didn't change.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 09:09 AM
And my point was that had the result been a win, I wouldn't have cared.

And this so-called Run-Run-Pass-Punt theory is overblown.

We went 6-1 last year in games where we attempted 25 passes or less, the lone loss coming @ Denver.


I dont think it is an "overblown theory" as much as it is a statistical breakdown of the play calling on those said downs... I dont have the time to look it up too back this up, but I am sure someone will...

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 09:15 AM
513 rushing attempts. 51.09% of offensive plays.

450 passing attempts + 41 sacks. 491 passing plays. 48.9% of offensive plays.

Run-Run-Pass-Punt?

:BS:

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 09:17 AM
Fine. Be that way.

Run, Pass, Pass, Punt.

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 09:17 AM
I dont think it is an "overblown theory" as much as it is a statistical breakdown of the play calling on those said downs... I dont have the time to look it up too back this up, but I am sure someone will...

If you want to blame the situational play calling, I'd agree 100%.

But the cries of run-run-pass-punt are bullshit.

You can't get much more balanced than 51-49.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 09:27 AM
If you want to blame the situational play calling, I'd agree 100%.

But the cries of run-run-pass-punt are bullshit.

You can't get much more balanced than 51-49.


DV's offense in 05 was more rushing attempts than pass attempts...

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 09:34 AM
DV's offense in 05 was more rushing attempts than pass attempts...



Actually no, but close. Well, based on attempts you're right. But breaking down running plays vs. passing plays:


520 rushing attempts. 49.1% of offensive plays

507 passing attempts + 32 sacks. 50.89% of offensive plays.

Pretty damn balanced. But DV is a genius and Herm is the debbil.

Situational play calling is the difference, and it helps to have a Pro Bowl QB and Left Tackle......

Fruit Ninja
06-04-2007, 09:41 AM
i couldn't sworn all last year Herm and his buddies said that the offense didn't change.
The playcalling changed, the offensive scheme stayed the same. So he did change it,b ut he didnt? kind of wierd, but its true.

It didnt help that, our Offensive line suck. I know people hate Herm, but if he left the play calling exactly the same, he would have ended up calling Vinnie Testeverde to quarterback the Chiefs after Huard and Croyle got sent to the hospital as well.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 09:43 AM
Actually no, but close. Well, based on attempts you're right. But breaking down running plays vs. passing plays:


520 rushing attempts. 49.1% of offensive plays

507 passing attempts + 32 sacks. 50.89% of offensive plays.

Pretty damn balanced. But DV is a genius and Herm is the debbil.

Situational play calling is the difference, and it helps to have a Pro Bowl QB and Left Tackle......


there was times where play calling killed us.. See LJ's block on Fijita at Dallas in 05... Cost us a win....

Herm is the debbil... Alot of it was the fact that DV had a big shiney Superbowl Ring as a HC and hired the coaches around him to make him successful and a failure.. DV trusted his asst's... Good or Bad.

Herm hired Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett as offensive Coordinators at one time... Enough said....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 09:44 AM
The playcalling changed, the offensive scheme stayed the same. So he did change it,b ut he didnt? kind of wierd, but its true.

It didnt help that, our Offensive line suck. I know people hate Herm, but if he left the play calling exactly the same, he would have ended up calling Vinnie Testeverde to quarterback the Chiefs after Huard and Croyle got sent to the hospital as well.

Dont be surprised if Vinnie T is in Red and Gold soon....

Skip Towne
06-04-2007, 09:47 AM
I just lost 200 IQ points for reading that....

Dammit Herm! :cuss:
OK, that leaves you with -115 IQ.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 09:49 AM
OK, that leaves you with -115 IQ.


Catching up with you now.... another -200 and I will pass you...

Fish
06-04-2007, 10:00 AM
there was times where play calling killed us.. See LJ's block on Fijita at Dallas in 05... Cost us a win....

So... you're using LJ's missed block as example of play calling? You're saying that LJ's missed block was part of the play? They intended for him to miss? hmmm.....



Herm is the debbil... Alot of it was the fact that DV had a big shiney Superbowl Ring as a HC and hired the coaches around him to make him successful and a failure.. DV trusted his asst's... Good or Bad.

Herm hired Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett as offensive Coordinators at one time... Enough said....

You realize the Chiefs hired both Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett as well right?

You keep insisting on your Herm hatred, but your reasoning is getting worse and worse the more Herm proves you wrong.......

bobbything
06-04-2007, 10:02 AM
We went 6-1 last year in games where we attempted 25 passes or less, the lone loss coming @ Denver.
We didn't really throw the ball that much more in the Vermeil era though. I don't think anyone would suggest that you have to pass the ball 45 times per game in order to be effective. The difference is that the offense back then wasn't really that predictable. The defense always seemed to be on their heels.

Not so much anymore. The play-calling has become rather stale. And much of it has to do with many of the things mentioned (ie: lack of talent). But much of it also has to do with the coaching philosophy.

htismaqe
06-04-2007, 10:07 AM
We didn't really throw the ball that much more in the Vermeil era though. I don't think anyone would suggest that you have to pass the ball 45 times per game in order to be effective. The difference is that the offense back then wasn't really that predictable. The defense always seemed to be on their heels.

Not so much anymore. The play-calling has become rather stale. And much of it has to do with many of the things mentioned (ie: lack of talent). But much of it also has to do with the coaching philosophy.

Saunders' "unpredictable" playcalling became rather predictable towards the end, especially the "fake double reverse then pump fake to Gonzo then get sacked" play he always ran on 3rd and 1.

Fish
06-04-2007, 10:09 AM
Saunders' "unpredictable" playcalling became rather predictable towards the end, especially the "fake double reverse then pump fake to Gonzo then get sacked" play he always ran on 3rd and 1.

Hell yeah... I remember that.... it almost worked the 38th time we ran it......

Saunders was the shit.

Chiefnj
06-04-2007, 10:28 AM
Saunders' "unpredictable" playcalling became rather predictable towards the end, especially the "fake double reverse then pump fake to Gonzo then get sacked" play he always ran on 3rd and 1.

Yeah, the offense sucked under Saunders.

KurtCobain
06-04-2007, 10:29 AM
Yeah, the offense sucked under Saunders.
LMAO

Fruit Ninja
06-04-2007, 10:42 AM
We didn't really throw the ball that much more in the Vermeil era though. I don't think anyone would suggest that you have to pass the ball 45 times per game in order to be effective. The difference is that the offense back then wasn't really that predictable. The defense always seemed to be on their heels.

Not so much anymore. The play-calling has become rather stale. And much of it has to do with many of the things mentioned (ie: lack of talent). But much of it also has to do with the coaching philosophy.
That had to do with our ****ing horrible offensive line. 2 words to remember JORDAN BLACK.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 10:44 AM
I like points. F the offense. You put points on the board, I'm all for it. If they are scoring with a backfield of Mr. T & Chuck Norris, I'm happy. But, I'm hoping the trends don't continue.....

Year - Points per game
2003: 30.2
2004: 30.2
2005: 25.2
2006: 20.7

Year - Offensive TD's - FG's
2003: 56 - 16
2004: 58 - 17
2005: 43 - 27
2006: 35 - 24

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 10:49 AM
I like points. F the offense. You put points on the board, I'm all for it. If they are scoring with a backfield of Mr. T & Chuck Norris, I'm happy. But, I'm hoping the trends don't continue.....

Year - Points per game
2003: 30.2
2004: 30.2
2005: 25.2
2006: 20.7

Year - Offensive TD's - FG's
2003: 56 - 16
2004: 58 - 17
2005: 43 - 27
2006: 35 - 24

I'm fine with that trend as long as this trend continues:

Defense under DV: 30+ PPG allowed.

Defense under Herm: 19 PPG allowed.

I like having knowing we don't HAVE TO score 30+ points every game to have a chance to win.

Fish
06-04-2007, 10:50 AM
I'm fine with that trend as long as this trend continues:

Defense under DV: 30+ PPG allowed.

Defense under Herm: 19 PPG allowed.

I like having knowing we don't HAVE TO score 30+ points every game to have a chance to win.

:clap: :clap:

bobbything
06-04-2007, 10:50 AM
That had to do with our ****ing horrible offensive line. 2 words to remember JORDAN BLACK.
Jordan Black started 10 games in 2005 and the playcalling stayed the same. He was no Roaf but Black wasn't the only reason the offense regressed under Herm.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm fine with that trend as long as this trend continues:

Defense under DV: 30+ PPG allowed.

Defense under Herm: 19 PPG allowed.

I like having knowing we don't HAVE TO score 30+ points every game to have a chance to win.

In my dreams, we have a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense.

If I have to choose one over the other, I'll take the offense. I have finally realized that regardless of the improvements made, the Chiefs will never get to a Super Bowl in my lifetime. So with that said, I'll take the enjoyment of shoot outs over the boredom of field goal contests.

In reality, I see us going from one extreme to the other. I see us all in a few years bitching because we can't score any points. We don't give up a lot of points, but if we don't get a INT return or Punt Return for a TD, we'll be lucky to score 10 points.

the Talking Can
06-04-2007, 10:57 AM
He should have said "no, we didn't think Willie Roaf leaving would make any difference, and when we lost our starting QB on day one, we were pretty sure that there was no need to make any adjustments."

nice

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 10:58 AM
In my dreams, we have a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense.

If I have to choose one over the other, I'll take the offense. I have finally realized that regardless of the improvements made, the Chiefs will never get to a Super Bowl in my lifetime. So with that said, I'll take the enjoyment of shoot outs over the boredom of field goal contests.

In reality, I see us going from one extreme to the other. I see us all in a few years bitching because we can't score any points. We don't give up a lot of points, but if we don't get a INT return or Punt Return for a TD, we'll be lucky to score 10 points.

What evidence do you have to show that?

We scored nearly 21 points a game last year with a 1st year Offensive Coordinator, lost our rock-solid Pro Bowl LT a month before the season started and played a journeyman QB for half the year and a QB with a scrambled brain the other half.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:03 AM
Next year it will be we played with a young QB with no experience. Or the offensive line didn't amount to anything. Or we didn't have a good WR. Or our FB didn't do his job. Or *insert excuse here*.

I guess I just don't get the whole offensive line argument.

Yards per pass:
2005 - 7.92
2006 - 7.21

Yards per rush:
2005 - 4.6
2006 - 4.2

Yards per play:
2005 - 5.8
2006 - 5.1

We lost .7 yards per play and gave up an additional 9 sacks. Was it really as bad as you think?

dirk digler
06-04-2007, 11:04 AM
What evidence do you have to show that?

We scored nearly 21 points a game last year with a 1st year Offensive Coordinator, lost our rock-solid Pro Bowl LT a month before the season started and played a journeyman QB for half the year and a QB with a scrambled brain the other half.

Did you watch the playoff game? Enough said.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 11:04 AM
I like having knowing we don't HAVE TO score 30+ points every game to have a chance to win.


True and I hate knowing that if our defense gives up 3 TD's a game, our chances of winning go down dramatically considering the offense...

Its all pretty funny if you ask me...

We used to score and not be able to stop someone from scoring, now we are going back to stopping people from scoring and not being able to score ourselves... ROFL....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 11:05 AM
Next year it will be we played with a young QB with no experience. Or the offensive line didn't amount to anything. Or we didn't have a good WR. Or our FB didn't do his job. Or *insert excuse here*.

I guess I just don't get the whole offensive line argument.

Yards per pass:
2005 - 7.92
2006 - 7.21

Yards per rush:
2005 - 4.6
2006 - 4.2

Yards per play:
2005 - 5.8
2006 - 5.1

We lost .7 yards per play and gave up an additional 9 sacks. Was it really as bad as you think?


Nice find

Chiefnj
06-04-2007, 11:05 AM
I like points. F the offense. You put points on the board, I'm all for it. If they are scoring with a backfield of Mr. T & Chuck Norris, I'm happy. But, I'm hoping the trends don't continue.....

Year - Points per game
2003: 30.2
2004: 30.2
2005: 25.2
2006: 20.7

Year - Offensive TD's - FG's
2003: 56 - 16
2004: 58 - 17
2005: 43 - 27
2006: 35 - 24

Where'd you get those numbers???

Surprising, but what I found was:

2006 - D gave up 19.7 per game, or 315 pts for the season.
2005 - D gave up 20.3 per game, or 325 pts for the season.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:05 AM
In reality, I see

This should have been an indication that it was my opinion and not fact.

ChiefsCountry
06-04-2007, 11:05 AM
What evidence do you have to show that?

We scored nearly 21 points a game last year with a 1st year Offensive Coordinator, lost our rock-solid Pro Bowl LT a month before the season started and played a journeyman QB for half the year and a QB with a scrambled brain the other half.

Not to mention we have drafted a good QB and potential #1 WR.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:06 AM
Where'd you get those numbers???

Surprising, but what I found was:

2005 - D gave up 19.7 per game, or 325 pts for the season.
2006 - D gave up 20.3 per game, or 315 pts for the season.

NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/stats)

Chiefnj
06-04-2007, 11:06 AM
We lost .7 yards per play and gave up an additional 9 sacks. Was it really as bad as you think?

Yes. The line was atrocious at times. There had to be at least 50 more pressures last year than the year before.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:08 AM
2006 - D gave up 19.7 per game, or 325 pts for the season.
2005 - D gave up 20.3 per game, or 315 pts for the season.

Nice find as well. I hadn't even made it to the defense yet.

Fish
06-04-2007, 11:09 AM
In my dreams, we have a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense.

If I have to choose one over the other, I'll take the offense. I have finally realized that regardless of the improvements made, the Chiefs will never get to a Super Bowl in my lifetime. So with that said, I'll take the enjoyment of shoot outs over the boredom of field goal contests.

In reality, I see us going from one extreme to the other. I see us all in a few years bitching because we can't score any points. We don't give up a lot of points, but if we don't get a INT return or Punt Return for a TD, we'll be lucky to score 10 points.

You think we won't win a Superbowl in your lifetime, so screw the defense?

Sounds like all you're wanting is a highlight reel...

It's proven time and time again that defense wins championships. You can't ignore that. DV did, and gave us some great highlights.... but what did that get us overall? It was a fun style of play to watch, but despite having the #1 offense in the league 4 years straight, we couldn't win one single ****ing playoff game. Not one.... with one of the best offensive lines in history. Hell.. the one playoff game Vermeil got us to, we couldn't even force them to punt the ****ing ball one single time the entire game!

At least Herm is trying to get some balance.... DV just didn't care....

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:10 AM
Yes. The line was atrocious at times. There had to be at least 50 more pressures last year than the year before.

Is there a site that tracks QB pressures? I'd be interested in seeing that. It could very well be true.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 11:11 AM
Yes. The line was atrocious at times. There had to be at least 50 more pressures last year than the year before.


The thing is, based on the coach you liked and how you want to look at it, you can spin it anyway you want to make your point...

People liked DV and his high scoring teams and people like Herm defensive shutdown teams.. It is all a personal preference and it doenst make anyone right or wrong... It is about playoff wins and championships...

Playoffs? DV's Defense embarrased us in one of the most electrifying playoff games in recent Chiefs memory, and Herm's offense embarrased us in one of the most pathetic coaching attempts in playoff history...

So far we are no better and no worse.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 11:12 AM
You think we won't win a Superbowl in your lifetime, so screw the defense?

Sounds like all you're wanting is a highlight reel...

It's proven time and time again that defense wins championships. You can't ignore that. DV did, and gave us some great highlights.... but what did that get us overall? It was a fun style of play to watch, but despite having the #1 offense in the league 4 years straight, we couldn't win one single ****ing playoff game. Not one.... with one of the best offensive lines in history. Hell.. the one playoff game Vermeil got us to, we couldn't even force them to punt the ****ing ball one single time the entire game!

At least Herm is trying to get some balance.... DV just didn't care....


I will agree with alot of that... I felt from the time he hired GROB, all he cared about was proving to STL and Martz, that he could build one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL.... To bad it came at the expense of the Defense...

Fish
06-04-2007, 11:14 AM
The thing is, based on the coach you liked and how you want to look at it, you can spin it anyway you want to make your point...

People liked DV and his high scoring teams and people like Herm defensive shutdown teams.. It is all a personal preference and it doenst make anyone right or wrong... It is about playoff wins and championships...

Playoffs? DV's Defense embarrased us in one of the most electrifying playoff games in recent Chiefs memory, and Herm's offense embarrased us in one of the most pathetic coaching attempts in playoff history...

So far we are no better and no worse.

But.... it's been proven over and over that a great defense and mediocre offense will get you a lot closer to a superbowl than a great offense and mediocre defense...

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 11:16 AM
But.... it's been proven over and over that a great defense and mediocre offense will get you a lot closer to a superbowl than a great offense and mediocre defense...


Not going to debate that... I agree... But it has been proven that Martyball coaches like Cowher and Dungy (who are willing to gamble and take risks to win a game) will get you closer to a superbowl than Marty and Herm will.

Also getting a first down before midway through the 3rd Qtr helps as well... Just a thought.

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:17 AM
You think we won't win a Superbowl in your lifetime, so screw the defense?

Yes. Screw the defense......

Sounds like all you're wanting is a highlight reel...

At least it's entertaining to watch.

It's proven time and time again that defense wins championships. You can't ignore that.

I'm not ignoring it. But to act as if the offense doesn't play as much a role in winning championships would be considered ignoring it as well.

Hell.. the one playoff game Vermeil got us to, we couldn't even force them to punt the ****ing ball one single time the entire game!

How many times did we punt again?

ChiefsCountry
06-04-2007, 11:23 AM
Everybody blames Herm's play calling but in that first half our receivers couldnt catch a pass to save their life. Heck even TG dropped balls.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 11:28 AM
Everybody blames Herm's play calling but in that first half our receivers couldnt catch a pass to save their life. Heck even TG dropped balls.


No that was Trents fault for throwing the ball right into their hands....

It is always Trents fault...

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 11:33 AM
No that was Trents fault for throwing the ball right into their hands....

It is always Trents fault...

It could be the offensive line didn't allow Trent/Damon to run up and hand the ball off to the WR's.

Logical
06-04-2007, 11:40 AM
If you want to blame the situational play calling, I'd agree 100%.

But the cries of run-run-pass-punt are bullshit.

You can't get much more balanced than 51-49.LOL yet somehow we managed to pass less than 25 times in 7 games. What that tells me is that we were passing like mofos once we got behind to try and catch up. Just like in the Marty days where if the other team got a lead you could pretty much phone it in as a loss because we were predictable and we were not going to catch up to have a chance at winning.

Logical
06-04-2007, 11:43 AM
So... you're using LJ's missed block as example of play calling? You're saying that LJ's missed block was part of the play? They intended for him to miss? hmmm.....





You realize the Chiefs hired both Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett as well right?

You keep insisting on your Herm hatred, but your reasoning is getting worse and worse the more Herm proves you wrong.......

Dude KC hiring Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett was a disaster, do you really want to use that to defend Herm?

Logical
06-04-2007, 11:48 AM
I like points. F the offense. You put points on the board, I'm all for it. If they are scoring with a backfield of Mr. T & Chuck Norris, I'm happy. But, I'm hoping the trends don't continue.....

Year - Points per game
2003: 30.2
2004: 30.2
2005: 25.2
2006: 20.7

Year - Offensive TD's - FG's
2003: 56 - 16
2004: 58 - 17
2005: 43 - 27
2006: 35 - 24

Perfect illustration well done. By the way it also shows what our offense getting older has done 2005 illustrates that. I expect another decrease in points this year. We are headed for Baltimore territory of offense. Unfortunately we don't have close to Baltimore's defense. Maybe in a year or two.

Logical
06-04-2007, 11:50 AM
In my dreams, we have a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense.

If I have to choose one over the other, I'll take the offense. I have finally realized that regardless of the improvements made, the Chiefs will never get to a Super Bowl in my lifetime. So with that said, I'll take the enjoyment of shoot outs over the boredom of field goal contests.

In reality, I see us going from one extreme to the other. I see us all in a few years bitching because we can't score any points. We don't give up a lot of points, but if we don't get a INT return or Punt Return for a TD, we'll be lucky to score 10 points.Yup

Fish
06-04-2007, 11:55 AM
Dude KC hiring Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett was a disaster, do you really want to use that to defend Herm?

I'm not using that to defend Herm at all.... I'm pointing out that KC made the same mistake on Raye and Hackett.

Logical
06-04-2007, 11:57 AM
I'm not using that to defend Herm at all.... I'm pointing out that KC made the same mistake on Raye and Hackett.

Problem here is they had already proven themselves a disaster, but Herm hired them anyway.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:00 PM
So... you're using LJ's missed block as example of play calling? You're saying that LJ's missed block was part of the play? They intended for him to miss? hmmm.....

No I was using that as an example of bad situational play calling.... Stop being so anal.

You realize the Chiefs hired both Jimmy Raye and Paul Hackett as well right? .......

Unfortunately those two disasters were pretty hard to watch swing pass their way down the field... Never been so sick in my life watching those two ass clowns coordinate a game...

You keep insisting on your Herm hatred, but your reasoning is getting worse and worse the more Herm proves you wrong.......

Herm proving me wrong? Good, I hope the shit bag does. Lets hope history changes for the better.... Then at least we will be winning playoff games and contending for super bowls...

HemiEd
06-04-2007, 12:01 PM
You thinkDV just didn't care....

Bullshit. You can put all the negs on DV you want, but he cared.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:01 PM
I'm not using that to defend Herm at all.... I'm pointing out that KC made the same mistake on Raye and Hackett.


They werent are smartest hires that is for sure... Herm hired them because the are safe and not risky coordinators....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:02 PM
Bullshit. You can put all the negs on DV you want, but he cared.


He cared to much.. See GROB, Hicks, Woods, Bartee, McCleon, list goes on and on...

crazycoffey
06-04-2007, 12:03 PM
They werent are smartest hires that is for sure... Herm hired them because the are safe and not risky coordinators....


Herm hired Hackett and Raye? when? I don't know this stuff.....

HemiEd
06-04-2007, 12:04 PM
Playoffs? DV's Defense embarrased us in one of the most electrifying playoff games in recent Chiefs memory, and Herm's offense embarrased us in one of the most pathetic coaching attempts in playoff history...
.

I still can't watch my recording of that pathetic showing, or not showing at Indy this year.
I cued it up one day to watch, couldn't get past the intro.

Fish
06-04-2007, 12:04 PM
Problem here is they had already proven themselves a disaster, but Herm hired them anyway.

No..... Terry Bradway hired them... Herm did not. Bradway worked with them while he was working with the Chiefs, so if anybody should have known what Raye and Hackett would do, it should have been Bradway, who hired them anyway....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:05 PM
No..... Terry Bradway hired them... Herm did not. Bradway worked with them while he was working with the Chiefs, so if anybody should have known what Raye and Hackett would do, it should have been Bradway, who hired them anyway....


Then Herm got F*cked on that deal....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:06 PM
I still can't watch my recording of that pathetic showing, or not showing at Indy this year.
I cued it up one day to watch, couldn't get past the intro.


No way I could sit down and watch the 03 playoff game...

Holmes getting caught from behind and fumbling... Man that still sucks.

Fish
06-04-2007, 12:17 PM
No I was using that as an example of bad situational play calling.... Stop being so anal.

That's still not an example of situational play calling. If LJ would have locked up the block, it could have been a TD. That's a break-down in execution, not situational play calling. You didn't mention a thing about the play itself, other than LJ missed his block. Make some sense and I won't be anal....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:20 PM
That's still not an example of situational play calling. If LJ would have locked up the block, it could have been a TD. That's a break-down in execution, not situational play calling. You didn't mention a thing about the play itself, other than LJ missed his block. Make some sense and I won't be anal....


There was no reason for a pass at 1st and goal on the 9.... We were shoving that ball down their throats all game long. We got cute, we got burnt....

Oh and LJ missed his block as well.

htismaqe
06-04-2007, 12:20 PM
Yeah, the offense sucked under Saunders.

That's exactly what I said. ROFL

Fish
06-04-2007, 12:31 PM
There was no reason for a pass at 1st and goal on the 9.... We were shoving that ball down their throats all game long. We got cute, we got burnt....

Oh and LJ missed his block as well.

So we should have kept rushing the ball?

I thought our offense was too predictable? :p

OnTheWarpath58
06-04-2007, 12:32 PM
Did you watch the playoff game? Enough said.


Yep. I was in the building.

And I'm not gonna base the future of our offense on one game.

If I was, I'd choose the Rams, Chargers, (home) Seattle, Cleveland and Jacksonville games.

We didn't seem to have any trouble scoring in those games......

:rolleyes:

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 12:33 PM
So we should have kept rushing the ball?

I thought our offense was too predictable? :p


ROFL.... Dammit Saunders! :cuss:

Mr. Plow
06-04-2007, 12:54 PM
Just for fun, I went back and looked at the final scores for the Chiefs last year (not including playoff humiliation). We scored a total of 331 points (TD's, FG's, PAT's, & 2 point conversion). I broke it up by more than 20 points and less than 20 points by the Chiefs in the game:

Over 20 points
Points scored - Result
41 - Win
23 - Win
30 - Win
35 - Win
31 - Win
28 - Loss
20 - Win
35 - Win

Under 20 points
Points scored - Result
10 - Loss
6 - Loss
7 - Loss
10 - Loss
17 - Win
19 - Win
10 - Loss
9 - Loss


We scored 243 out of 331 points in the games we scored over 20 points and we averaged 30 points per game in those games.

We then scored a total of 88 points in the games under 20 points and we averaged 11 points per game.

Just food for thought.

Logical
06-04-2007, 03:10 PM
No..... Terry Bradway hired them... Herm did not. Bradway worked with them while he was working with the Chiefs, so if anybody should have known what Raye and Hackett would do, it should have been Bradway, who hired them anyway....

Wow this is a new extreme to defend a coach. Now you want to say Herm did not hire his coaches.

ChiefsCountry
06-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Chiefs Passing Attempts per game
Cincinnati - 35
Denver - 23
San Francisco -23
Arizona - 38
Pittsburgh - 39
San Diego - 27
Seattle - 25
St. Louis -15
Miami - 38
Oakland -16
Denver - 22
Cleveland - 32
Baltimore - 27
San Diego - 41
Oakland - 38
Jacksonville - 25
Indianapolis - 24

Chiefs Rushing Attempts per game
Cincinnati - 25
Denver - 35
San Francisco - 40
Arizona - 22
Pittsburgh - 19
San Diego - 30
Seattle - 53
St. Louis - 32
Miami - 19
Oakland - 37
Denver - 41
Cleveland - 32
Baltimore - 30
San Diego - 21
Oakland - 24
Jacksonville - 40
Indianapolis - 17

Wins are in italics.

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 06:01 PM
Wow this is a new extreme to defend a coach. Now you want to say Herm did not hire his coaches.


But it was Herm that brought back Jimmy Raye after he was fired to be the "special redzone offensive asst" at one point... Pretty sure and will verify that off jetsnation.com.

Like Jimmy Raye knew where the f*ck the endzone was on a football field.. He was shocked as hell when someone told him that a football field had two of them and you goal was to reach either one of them as many times during the game as you can....

Reerun_KC
06-04-2007, 06:05 PM
Chiefs Passing Attempts per game
Cincinnati - 35
Denver - 23
San Francisco -23
Arizona - 38
Pittsburgh - 39
San Diego - 27
Seattle - 25
St. Louis -15
Miami - 38
Oakland -16
Denver - 22
Cleveland - 32
Baltimore - 27
San Diego - 41
Oakland - 38
Jacksonville - 25
Indianapolis - 24

Chiefs Rushing Attempts per game
Cincinnati - 25
Denver - 35
San Francisco - 40
Arizona - 22
Pittsburgh - 19
San Diego - 30
Seattle - 53
St. Louis - 32
Miami - 19
Oakland - 37
Denver - 41
Cleveland - 32
Baltimore - 30
San Diego - 21
Oakland - 24
Jacksonville - 40
Indianapolis - 17

Wins are in italics.

Never broke 40 pass attempts, but 40 rushing attempts 3 time and one insane 53 freaking times and we barely won that freaking game.... WTF?

The SD home game is right on the money.... That is a good balance....

jjjayb
06-04-2007, 06:56 PM
If you want to blame the situational play calling, I'd agree 100%.

But the cries of run-run-pass-punt are bullshit.

You can't get much more balanced than 51-49.

You can run run pass punt through 3 1/2 quarters then go pass happy in the end of the 4th quarter to catch up and end up 51-49 but would it really be balanced. The problem last year was with predictability. It's amazing how the opposing defense always knew when we were running and when we were passing.

rad
06-04-2007, 07:46 PM
I think our unpredictability in the DV years had alot to do with all the shifting we did.

I didn't get to see alot of games last year, but the few I did see I didn't see any of that.

ChiefsCountry
06-04-2007, 08:05 PM
Never broke 40 pass attempts, but 40 rushing attempts 3 time and one insane 53 freaking times and we barely won that freaking game.... WTF?

The SD home game is right on the money.... That is a good balance....

We broke 40 passing in the San Diego road game.

GoHuge
06-04-2007, 08:14 PM
Aah Derr :drool:

NewChief
06-04-2007, 08:16 PM
It's amazing how the opposing defense always knew when we were running and when we were passing.

Reminds me of an anecdote from last year. If you all remember the absolutely horrendous INT to Donnie Edwards against SD last year, think back to it. Donnie makes a break on the ball before the ball even leaves Trent's hand. Trent asked Donnie later how he read that ball. Donnie just said something to the effect of, "We study game tape, too. We knew what play was coming."

greg63
06-04-2007, 08:33 PM
I just lost 200 IQ points for reading that....

Dammit Herm! :cuss:

Heck, I didn't have 200 points to lose so I too am in the negative now! :banghead: