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Pestilence
06-05-2007, 02:01 PM
Report: Samuel to hold out until Week 10 FOXSports.com
Posted: 7 minutes ago


The Patriots made a splash with all their off-season additions. Now they're making news with a potential off-season subtraction.


Disgruntled cornerback Asante Samuel, one of the team's defensive standouts, has said he will not show up at New England's minicamp and will not report to the team until Week 10 of the regular season, according to a report on the web site of the Boston Globe Tuesday.

"I'm not coming to camp," he told the paper. "I'm not showing up until the 10th week (of the season). I feel unappreciated. The way they're treating me is just wrong."

The Patriots made Samuel their franchise player back in February, a tag that would guarantee Samuel a one-year, $7.9 million deal. But since Samuel has not signed that tender, he is technically not under contract and therefore the Patriots cannot fine him for missing camp.

Under the league's collective bargaining agreement, Samuel has until July 15 to sign a deal with New England. If no agreement is reached by then, Samuel can only sign a one-year deal and cannot sign a contract extension until after the 2007 regular season.

Samuel led New England with 10 interceptions in 2006, nearly half of the team's total of 22. He also had 24 passes defensed, and was fifth on the team with 65 tackles.

The 25-year-old Samuel was a 4th round selection by the Patriots in 2003.

Pestilence
06-05-2007, 02:02 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6889856?MSNHPHMA

Sure-Oz
06-05-2007, 02:05 PM
trade him to us for trents 6th round pick

Buehler445
06-05-2007, 02:09 PM
What is he so mad about? How are they mistreating him?

Fish
06-05-2007, 02:13 PM
What is he so mad about? How are they mistreating him?

One-year, $7.9 million deal?

Come on man.... I mean..... just look at how offensive that is. The nerve of the Pats.... Samuel is clearly worth at least 10 zillion a year.

He's got to feed his family ya know.....

Mile High Mania
06-05-2007, 02:13 PM
good for him

StcChief
06-05-2007, 02:14 PM
trade him to us for trents 6th round pick
In a heart beat. maybe another consideration as well.

noa
06-05-2007, 02:17 PM
I'm guessing that he wants a multi-year deal instead of the franchise tag deal, but jeez, holding out for 10 games seems like a risky strategy. Patriots usually don't budge on these types of conflicts.

InChiefsHell
06-05-2007, 02:25 PM
Sign him Carl!


...oh...

Mile High Mania
06-05-2007, 02:27 PM
I'm guessing that he wants a multi-year deal instead of the franchise tag deal, but jeez, holding out for 10 games seems like a risky strategy. Patriots usually don't budge on these types of conflicts.

Depends on what he's risking...

$8M is a huge pay day, but ... if he gets seriously injured, he'll never see another huge contract. If he holds out, comes back for 6 games... stays healthy, he'll get that next big contract. Maybe not in NE, but what would he care?

Radar Chief
06-05-2007, 02:35 PM
One-year, $7.9 million deal?

Come on man.... I mean..... just look at how offensive that is. The nerve of the Pats.... Samuel is clearly worth at least 10 zillion a year.

He's got to feed his family ya know.....


Do you know how much insurance on a Ferrari costs?

BucEyedPea
06-05-2007, 02:50 PM
I had a feeling this could still happen...eventhough him and his agent were saying they were fine and dandy months ago with the deal.

Valiant
06-05-2007, 03:14 PM
I'm guessing that he wants a multi-year deal instead of the franchise tag deal, but jeez, holding out for 10 games seems like a risky strategy. Patriots usually don't budge on these types of conflicts.


Its not.. By showing up week 10 he played his year and then can become a UFA the next year I believe... Seems he could care less about the Pats wanting him..

He wants to get paid, he wants his long-term contract with somebody..

If the Pats refuse him back in week 10 I believe he is an automatic FA.. If he is willing to hold out that long it is a win/win for him...

noa
06-05-2007, 03:16 PM
Its not.. By showing up week 10 he played his year and then can become a UFA the next year I believe... Seems he could care less about the Pats wanting him..

He wants to get paid, he wants his long-term contract with somebody..

If the Pats refuse him back in week 10 I believe he is an automatic FA.. If he is willing to hold out that long it is a win/win for him...

Yeah, that's true. I guess the only risk is they put him in after week 10 and then he gets injured.
How much money does he get from the franchise tag deal if he only plays 6 games?

Valiant
06-05-2007, 03:33 PM
Yeah, that's true. I guess the only risk is they put him in after week 10 and then he gets injured.
How much money does he get from the franchise tag deal if he only plays 6 games?

Should be 1/16 for every game so around 3million...

Teams will go after him from past achievements if he does not get hurt in those 6 games...

Coach
06-05-2007, 03:38 PM
So, if he holds out, isn't the new rule that the team can actually fine him for a disclosed amount per day that he holds out?

'Hamas' Jenkins
06-05-2007, 03:42 PM
He never signed the contract, so they can't fine him.

CoMoChief
06-05-2007, 04:10 PM
The Patriots made Samuel their franchise player back in February, a tag that would guarantee Samuel a one-year, $7.9 million deal. But since Samuel has not signed that tender, he is technically not under contract and therefore the Patriots cannot fine him for missing camp.


So does this mean that if we did in fact trade for him we would have to give up a 1st round pick since he the tag is slapped on him? What are the rules for that?

Direckshun
06-05-2007, 04:29 PM
I'll never understand why players don't just bite the franchise tag.

One year of the franchise tag and your entire family is set for life.

wutamess
06-05-2007, 05:00 PM
I'll never understand why players don't just bite the franchise tag.

One year of the franchise tag and your entire family is set for life.

Not quite.
You guys don't fathom the lifestyle they lead because we're not the one's in the money. Sure $8mill sounds like a shit load of $ to us but to him why settle for $8 when you can get possible $20? That's business 101.

Besides when i was in grade school our teacher broke down the salary's of athletes and such (George Brett was the example then but here's my attempt.

Taxes 30-40% quickly reduces that to around $5mill.
Agent fees: 10-20% quickly reduces that to 4-$5mill.
Other fees I'm sure none of us are aware of.

That can quickly become $3 mill range.
Expensive house payment(s), insurance (has to be high as giraffe pussy), expensive car payment(s), expensive vacation(s) kids (not to mention child support) you're quickly looking at around < $1mill left over.

To us we could live with that but to them that's chump change.

Not to mention my main goal in life is to leave my kids kids wealthy.
With his current lifestyle that $1mill left over aint shit for his grandkids.

Start thinking outside the box for once and stop thinking small money. The owners constantly reap billions $ of profits/year. Players just want their fair share for making the owners their $.

Boog out!

phisherman
06-05-2007, 07:23 PM
don't get roger started, he thinks the top players should be able to renegotiate their deals every year if anyone signs for more money...remember, "my kids gotta eat too"

for christ's sake, it's not his salary that's making him hold out, it's the lack of a big money signing bonus....shit, i bet if they gave him $20 mil to sign, he'd be more than happy to make $800,000 a year for a few years.

Thig Lyfe
06-05-2007, 07:49 PM
high as giraffe pussy

Holy shit. There's an expression I've never heard before.

alanm
06-05-2007, 08:29 PM
Not quite.
You guys don't fathom the lifestyle they lead because we're not the one's in the money. Sure $8mill sounds like a shit load of $ to us but to him why settle for $8 when you can get possible $20? That's business 101.

Besides when i was in grade school our teacher broke down the salary's of athletes and such (George Brett was the example then but here's my attempt.

Taxes 30-40% quickly reduces that to around $5mill.
Agent fees: 10-20% quickly reduces that to 4-$5mill.
Other fees I'm sure none of us are aware of.

That can quickly become $3 mill range.
Expensive house payment(s), insurance (has to be high as giraffe pussy), expensive car payment(s), expensive vacation(s) kids (not to mention child support) you're quickly looking at around < $1mill left over.

To us we could live with that but to them that's chump change.

Not to mention my main goal in life is to leave my kids kids wealthy.
With his current lifestyle that $1mill left over aint shit for his grandkids.

Start thinking outside the box for once and stop thinking small money. The owners constantly reap billions $ of profits/year. Players just want their fair share for making the owners their $.

Boog out!
Any guy that's giving his agent 20% deserves to get hosed.
And any person that's penny smart with their money could make that one year contract last a lifetime. :)

wutamess
06-05-2007, 10:27 PM
Any guy that's giving his agent 20% deserves to get hosed.
And any person that's penny smart with their money could make that one year contract last a lifetime. :)

Why is 20% a horrible figure.
They negotiate the contracts and are basically the main guy running the show for the athletes. Wouldn't you want to be compensated accordingly?

wutamess
06-05-2007, 10:28 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_agent

A sports agent is a person who procures and negotiates employment and endorsement deals for an athlete. In turn the agent receives a commission that is usually between ten and twelve percent of the contract, although this figure varies. In addition, the agent often handles public relations matters for his or her client. In some large sport agencies such as IMG and Octagon, agents deal with all aspects of an athlete's finances, from investment to filing taxes. Sports agents are leaned on alot for guidence in all aspects of life. Some agents are part of large companies and some are on their own, the amount of clients you can have depends on how much the company is able to handle.

Deberg_1990
06-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Only in sports can a guy feel slighted for only making 7.9 mil hahaha


Sorry, Assante, no Joe fan is gonna side with you on this..

Smed1065
06-05-2007, 10:52 PM
So he gets pisse3d because he only has 1 million left in the bank at the end of the year after taxes, fees, insurance. blah... blah...blah.

I have to pay these fees in forms of insurance, taxes. etc. (players salary in football)

I understand the market is great this year but I bet he was happy to sign his original contract and to be able to play in the NFL.

Usually athletes are accustomed to getting their way because of their status as an athlete from high school on so I assume it is just natural to expect more than they get regardless of how much. IMO.

el borracho
06-05-2007, 11:57 PM
While I understand his position and can logically agree that a holdout is in his best financial interest I just can't ever get on board with the hurt feelings aspect. Seriously, these millionaires need to stop exaggerating. $7.9 million is unappreciated? Give me a break. What is the point of even making outrageous statements like this? Is he looking for sympathy? I can tell you it is incredibly difficult for the average Joe to sympathize with someone complaining about a $7.9 million dollar offer for one year of service. $7.9 million is not insulting- it's just not in his best interest.

InChiefsHell
06-06-2007, 06:36 AM
They live in another world where they think everyone just automatically understands where they are coming from...most have lost touch with what it's like to be the average Joe because they don't associate with him anymore...they are surrounded by people who have the same lifestyles so they start to forget that the rest of the world (who pays their salary) doesn't actually make that kind of jack and never will.

Mile High Mania
06-06-2007, 06:48 AM
This is just a fact of life in sports... teams will cut players when they deem fit (or trade, see Green). So, I'm not really going to fault a player for looking out for his own interests.

Pushead2
06-06-2007, 06:59 AM
I feel for him because he's unhappy in the position he's in. You like working your job if your unhappy with something within the job???

ChiefsfaninPA
06-06-2007, 07:04 AM
It is called class envy. Everyone who keeps making the "you can live a lifetime on that salary" are not seeing the whole picture. It isn't for YOU to decide what he can live on. Newsflash, he doesn't care if Joe Fan doesn't stand behind him. I don't think any athlete goes into a contract negotiation truly caring what us fans think of them. I only wish that I could holdout for more money at my job. We all do this when we look for jobs, it is just that our negotiations are usually not for millions.

The Big Lebowski
06-06-2007, 07:41 AM
I believe Asante will indeed hold out until that 10th game of the season. The guy has "Get Paid" TATTOOED ON HIS ARM.

He's high if he thinks he is worth Nate Clements or Champ Bailey money. He's a good starting CB, but he hasn't proven to be in that class yet. He basically had 1 really good year. Before last year, he was a question mark on this team. Noone was sure about him.

The Patriots did offer him a respectable long term deal. It just wasn't what Nate Clements got.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:06 AM
good for him

ROFL

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:08 AM
Depends on what he's risking...

$8M is a huge pay day, but ... if he gets seriously injured, he'll never see another huge contract. If he holds out, comes back for 6 games... stays healthy, he'll get that next big contract. Maybe not in NE, but what would he care?

Problem is that he's never made $1M in a year, and now he'd be giving about 60% of $7.7M, or about $4.2M ro somesuch, to take over half a year off.

And, of course, we could franchise tag him against next year.

I 100% guarantee you that he will either play for us long term, or be traded. The Pats have never, under BB, let a player in his prime walk for nothing in exchange. Only salary-related cuts and older players have left the team without the Pats getting something in return.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:09 AM
Its not.. By showing up week 10 he played his year and then can become a UFA the next year I believe... Seems he could care less about the Pats wanting him..

He wants to get paid, he wants his long-term contract with somebody..

If the Pats refuse him back in week 10 I believe he is an automatic FA.. If he is willing to hold out that long it is a win/win for him...

He's a UFA this year, but he got tagged.

He can come back again, sign for the franchise number (either before the season, or by week 10) and still get tagged again next year. If he doesn't sign until Week 10, then he gets the $7.7M pro-rated, so he'd only make $3 whatever million for the year.

$4M is alot to give up for a guy who made $420K 2 years ago and $775K last year.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:10 AM
He never signed the contract, so they can't fine him.

Right, he's a UFA, who has been tagged. He's not under contract, so it's not a hold-out.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:11 AM
Taxes 30-40% quickly reduces that to around $5mill.
Agent fees: 10-20% quickly reduces that to 4-$5mill.
Other fees I'm sure none of us are aware of.


Taxes is 40%, easy, including state.

Agent fees -- NO WAY is it 10-20%. Actually, I think the NFL mandates 5%.

No other fees, but high cost of living as they work to impress their friends, family and chicks.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:13 AM
It is called class envy. Everyone who keeps making the "you can live a lifetime on that salary" are not seeing the whole picture. It isn't for YOU to decide what he can live on. Newsflash, he doesn't care if Joe Fan doesn't stand behind him. I don't think any athlete goes into a contract negotiation truly caring what us fans think of them. I only wish that I could holdout for more money at my job. We all do this when we look for jobs, it is just that our negotiations are usually not for millions.

Yes, right. Fan pressure applies to teams, who need to sell tickets, much more htan players.

Pats, of course, are sold out with a 50K season ticket wait list, and BB is God to most Pats fans, so the Pats are pretty insulated from abuse for this from their fan base, compared to most teams.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 08:15 AM
The Patriots did offer him a respectable long term deal. It just wasn't what Nate Clements got.

Bingo. Clements blew up the market absurdly.

Samuel is alot like Brnach, actually, except Branch was in his final year. Neither had ever made a pro bowl before demanding top-level salary as if they were TO or Champ Bailey.

But I'm not bitter. I understand. Samuel is like 26. He was a 4-5 year deal for BIG money, and then hit the FA jackpot again at about 30-31 years old. 2 big contracts like that (assuming he stays helathy) and he' set for life.

We'll see what happens.

ChiefsfaninPA
06-06-2007, 08:23 AM
Damn Amnorix, you are knocking them out back to back to back. :)

BucEyedPea
06-06-2007, 08:23 AM
Can you say ....ASSante? :banghead:

InChiefsHell
06-06-2007, 08:44 AM
Taxes is 40%, easy, including state.

Agent fees -- NO WAY is it 10-20%. Actually, I think the NFL mandates 5%.

No other fees, but high cost of living as they work to impress their friends, family and chicks.

Not to mention, it's not like it's a one shot deal...these are multiple year contracts...these guys ain't starving. Taxes and fees or not...

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 09:32 AM
Not to mention, it's not like it's a one shot deal...these are multiple year contracts...these guys ain't starving. Taxes and fees or not...

Yes, but on the flip side is the possibility of injury.

I'll give a prime example -- though my memory is a bit fuzzy on the specifics. Pats drafted a guy named Guss Scott. 3rd round, as a safety. Heck, I think it was the same year as Asante.

He looked good in training camp. Like REALLY good. He got a typical contract for a guy at that position, but there was some kind of slightly odd clause in it. The NFL decided that the contract wasn't kosher, and voided it.

Scott decided to play that year under the contract, but he didn't get his signing bonus. Instead, he figured he'd do well, and we'd negoitate soemthing the next year.

Of course, he gets hurt. He's lost for the season.

Next year, he signs a one year deal on minimum salary or something, and again is hurt and lost for the season.

He never got the signign bonus, and no whe's out of the NFL because his wheels don't work anymore, and at safety, that's a problem.

Frankly, his agent took a risk, his client got hurt, and his client got majorly screwed.

I always felt bad for Scott. He looked like a very good player for us, potentially, but it never worked out.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 09:35 AM
Here's a blurb. I forgot -- it was Drew Rosenhaus.


Rosenhaus represented Florida safety Guss Scott when the New England Patriots drafted him in the third round in 2004. The Patriots and Rosenhaus had an agreement on a five-year contract -- an unusual length the team demanded -- that included a reported $625,000 signing bonus. But the deal was voided by the NFL Management Council, and the sides never reached a compromise. Scott wound up receiving the one-year qualifying offer of $230,000. Then, he blew out his knee in the preseason. He never recouped the lost bonus money and bounced around four teams this season.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/241954,CST-SPT-drew04.articleprint

Reerun_KC
06-06-2007, 09:39 AM
Here's a blurb. I forgot -- it was Drew Rosenhaus.


Rosenhaus represented Florida safety Guss Scott when the New England Patriots drafted him in the third round in 2004. The Patriots and Rosenhaus had an agreement on a five-year contract -- an unusual length the team demanded -- that included a reported $625,000 signing bonus. But the deal was voided by the NFL Management Council, and the sides never reached a compromise. Scott wound up receiving the one-year qualifying offer of $230,000. Then, he blew out his knee in the preseason. He never recouped the lost bonus money and bounced around four teams this season.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/241954,CST-SPT-drew04.articleprint
Karma?

Chiefnj
06-06-2007, 09:45 AM
Frankly, his agent took a risk, his client got hurt, and his client got majorly screwed.

I always felt bad for Scott. He looked like a very good player for us, potentially, but it never worked out.

Looks like Drew had a very good deal for his client that the league voided becaues it didn't like the length of it.

Amnorix
06-06-2007, 11:14 AM
Looks like Drew had a very good deal for his client that the league voided becaues it didn't like the length of it.

Don't know why it was voided, but pretty sure it wasn't the length. Pats demanded that, and had gotten it before (and after). NFL has now instituted mandatory maximum lengths of contract in the new CBA.