View Full Version : What Was The Worst Chiefs Offseason Move So Far?
04-21-2001, 02:11 AM
Lots of doom and gloom in the air when talking about the Chiefs.
Well then, all you naysayers, please feel free to voice your biggest gripe with the Chiefs this offseason.
Don't hurt yourselves now ;)
keg in kc
04-21-2001, 02:23 AM
Odd, I have no sense whatsoever of gloom and doom for the Chiefs. I can't complain about anything that has happened so far this offseason, with the exception of the Crockett signing.
That one I don't get...
04-21-2001, 02:40 AM
I thought about putting Grunhard apparently retiring onto this poll, but that wasn't an offseason move, but rather a decision which came from the player and not the organization
04-21-2001, 07:57 AM
Actually I voted for the Brister thing, but in all, it is no worse or better for that matter, than some of the others. Crockett one, keeping Gray two, but all in all not a whole lot of negatives, that can't be fixed. I will be a little miffed if we keep Brister and Collins, after picking a young QB in the draft, and then letting him go, because, that's what got us into the QB mess last year. But it is not that big of deal.
04-21-2001, 10:38 AM
Interesting, spread-out opinion to this vote.
Vermeil's compensation actually is the early leader, but I guess that's because of the endless Green trade story and how we were in a bind.
Me thinks even if we had the 2nd round pick, it wasn't going to St. Louis for Green in this trade.
Look how masterful Carl pulled this trade. I think it was he who put on the strap-on and treated Shaw like a new inmate.
Carl didn't "cave in" in this trade. He didn't "cave in" to Holmes' 3 million a year demands.
He has made out very well.
04-21-2001, 04:14 PM
Guys, don't we save money against the cap if we cut Grey after June 1? How can keeping him on the roster so far be a "bad" move?
04-22-2001, 08:54 AM
Since almost every other move in this poll is the result of CP's continued employment in KC, I had to vote for CP's contract extention.
04-22-2001, 04:22 PM
For me there's no question about this one:
Paying the 12th overall pick for a backup 30yr old QB with 19 career starts, no playoff experience, no crunch time game experience, with a tendency to hold onto the ball too long, and as a capper the owner of a bum knee.
The Chiefs horribly overpaid for Green and we can thank DV/AS's public love-affair with him for it. Although this draft is moving quickly up my list, the Green trade ranks supreme as the worst off season move.
04-22-2001, 07:43 PM
It's way to early to judge any of the moves that have been made since the end of the 2000 season. Bring back this topic back at the end of october and I will have an opinion based on facts instead of bias.
04-23-2001, 08:56 AM
Many things about this off season I don't understand.
1) Letting Elvis go. Anything can be renegotiated. If we keep Elvis, we don't lose the draft picks for Green and we keep the best QB/WR/TE combination we've had in KC together for a while longer.
2) Picking up Priest Holmes. I've watched Priest here in Baltimore the past three years. Guy lost the starting RB job three years in a row, what makes us possibly believe that he can make it here as our Starting RB outside of the fact we have NO true RBs on the Team
I keep thinking, we keep Elvis, use that #1 for a RB like Deuce,who was available until well after we drafted and then use the other picks on good solid D players....
I don't know, but I have a <B>BAD</B> feeling about this.....
keg in kc
04-23-2001, 09:00 AM
We didn't lose Elvis. Elvis wanted to leave and he left. Nothing we could have done would have kept him here. He took less money to play in Baltimore than he would have made here had he been willing to negotiate with us, which he clearly was not. No reason to even waste another thought for Elvis as far as I'm concerned, and remember that I was one of his most vocal supporters.
Elvis would have been a mismatched cog in the machine Saunders wants to build. Had he not bolted for Baltimore, we would have been stuck with a QB who does not fit the Offense. The "Chargers Midwest" Offense needs a QB with a quick Defensive read, a quick and accurate release and good decision-making abilities.
Do those qualifications make you think of Elvis Grbac?
Of course not.
Thank you, Elvis, for moving on when you did. Both sides won in that dispute, even if it did not seem so at the time.
Grbac is a good fit for the Ravens. Tall, good arm, good play action QB. Baltimore will treat him like Dilfer: they will not ask him to win the game, they will only ask him not to lose it.
Green is a good fit for Saunders' new Offense. Since the price was dropped [as expected] from the ludicrous "1st and 3rd, period" nonsense [good job, Carl], the only question left is the rehab of his knee.
Glad that Elvis found a home away from KC.
04-23-2001, 09:14 AM
I live here in Baltimore, so not giving Elvis another thought is not very likely to happen. I won't stop rooting for the Chiefs, but I rate the Chiefs giving up Elvis (and believe me, if they wanted Elvis to stay, he'd have stayed) right up there with the Chicago Cubs giving Lou Brock to the St. Louis Cardinals. Not quite as bad as Boston sending this promising pitcher to the Yankees back in 1920, but bad enough.
Oh, I'll root for ol' Broke kneed Green because he's the KC QBON (Quarterback of Now), but I was highly unimpressed with him when I watched him play for the Redskins (can't get away from Redskin/Raven football where I live) and I think that he's highly overrated and extremely fragile. I <B>hope</B> to be pleasantly surprised and I'm not likely to be hyper-critical of him, because he is our QB.
But that doesn't mean I "Have to get over it". I have my opinion and it's as valid as anyone elses.
The thread stated "What do you think is the Chiefs' worst off-season move"
I strongly believe that letting Elvis walk was it. You don't. Simple as that.
However, I marked the Priest Holmes signing as the only option available above. I think his hiring <B> STINKS</B>. Anyone expecting him to be a 1000 yard rushers is going to be highly dissapointed. He'll start out strong as usual and then start fading around game 7 and be on the bench by game 12. That's been his pattern the past three years and I don't see him improving any time soon.
Again, I hope to be mildly surprised.
keg in kc
04-23-2001, 09:21 AM
I agree that Elvis going was bad...
I just don't agree that we "let" him go. I think we were completely shocked that he didn't restructure, and I think the amount of time that it took to fill the position is a demonstration of how unprepared we were for what amounted to the "unthinkable". Maybe we didn't put in the effort we should have to get him back, but I really believe that the organization assumed that he would re-sign and he just walked away with no intention of signing, and he didn't even give us fair warning.
I resent that and I find it unforgivable.
04-23-2001, 09:23 AM
Misplaced Chiefs Fan:
I agree about Holmes. I was the other vote for Holmes. Still, he's the RB and we need to support him, through thick and thin.
I do apologize. When I put it together, I forgot to list "Releasing Elvis Grbac" as an option. Some votes would have been cast for him, but it was a total oversight.
Oh well, what's done is done...
04-23-2001, 09:33 AM
<I>" I think we were completely shocked that he didn't restructure, and I think the amount of time that it took to fill the position is a demonstration of how unprepared we were for what amounted to the "unthinkable". Maybe we didn't put in the effort we should have to get him back, but I really believe that the organization assumed that he would re-sign and he just walked away with no intention of signing, and he didn't even give us fair warning. "</i>
If the Chiefs front office assumed <B>ANYTHING</B> in negotiations with Elvis, then IMHO they should be sacked to a man. This is a <B> business</b>. You don't assume... you get together and hammer out a contract. If they had wanted Elvis, there'd have been constant meetings and faxes between the Chiefs front office and his agent. According to Carl, they made Elvis an offer, he made A counter offer and then neither group talked again. Doesn't sound like the Chiefs were too interested either.
If they were shocked and didn't have "fair warning", I find that is either extremely sad or extremely naive. It would be sad, because <B> I </b> could tell that unless there was some serious negotiating going on behind the scenes that Elvis wasn't coming back, and if I could spot it, then surely people who're football professionals who deal with players and contract on a daily basis couldn't see it......
If they just <b>assumed</b> that Elvis would be back and made <b>NO</b> preparations, then they are extremely naive and they deserve to be caught flat footed. You <b>ALWAYS</b> have a contingency plan. Always, always, always....
I am now officially more depressed than I was at the start of this thread.
keg in kc
04-23-2001, 09:43 AM
Their contingency was Green, obviously, and it worked out...
I said it before, and I'll say it again: there was no way Elvis was going to re-sign with KC, as his 7 mil/year contract demand demonstrated - remember that he and Steiner would not negotiate down from that number.
He wanted out and he went.
Carlton Gray is your biggest gripe?!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Gray was a brain-fart FA signing, has never challenged for a starting position, been buried on the depth chart, renegotiated his salary down TWICE, and will be on our roster for precisely 6-7 more weeks, before his arse is dumped on the side of the street for the Vikes to pick him up and throw in the back of thier dumpster on wheels they call a Defense. And those 6-7 weeks will save us some $$ against the cap this season, perhaps allowing us to get a recently cut LB or WR.
Given that the bonehead mistake was already made to sign him, the fact that CP is waiting for June to cut him, as opposed to doing it in February is the LEAST of my gripes!!
Get over it!!
And for the record, my vote was cast for Releasing Hasty. Signing Crockett is a VERY close second, and second only because it doesn't happen without the first.
04-23-2001, 11:23 AM
Speaking of Elvis and the Ravens [which I feel that letting him go was a big mistake, but it was move that we the Chiefs fans and Chiefs organization deserved], but how in the he!! does Todd Heap fall to the end of the 1st. SB champs' 1st rounders are supposed to be anti-climactic [see, Trung Canidate]. The Ravens wait around all that time and get what many feel is 'Gonzo Jr.' Between Heap, and Shannon to mentor, Elvis won't have to live a day mourning the loss of his 'security blanket.'
04-24-2001, 08:25 PM
OK, I admit to some bias here. But IMO Crockett is nothing more than a taller Mighty Mouse. I now annoint him "Mighty Rat". He's nothing but a showboating idiot IMO. I used to hate him when KC played Denver (third only to Romo and Sharpe). The guy makes big plays (just like McMillian did), and then turns around and gets toasted the very next time. We'll regret this signing IMO. At best he'll stay on the field by doing a barely adequate job and take time away from developing Dennis/Bartee who we suffered with last season (for seemingly very little). At worst he'll suck so bad we'll be forced to bench him and have a highly paid player on the pine.
Just had to get that off my chest, I was out of town when the signing happened :)
04-24-2001, 10:05 PM
Cormac - I feel your pain, but I'm not sure which is worse, releasing Hasty or Signing Crockfullofit or... I'm so confused at everything right now I don't have a clue what the heck this team will look like this season.
04-24-2001, 10:37 PM
Worst Off Season Moves:
1. Trading for Trent Green. If the Chiefs really wanted a QB of his caliber, all they had to do was sign Brad Johnson and not give up a pick. The Rams screwed the Chiefs (again)
2. Extending Carl Peterson another 5 years. Name me one other GM in any sport that gets another five years after 8 straight seasons of mediocrity (no playoff wins, no playoff appearances in 3 of last 4 years)
3. Signing Bubby Brister. Just once, I would like to see the Chiefs draft and develop a backup QB with the intent of taking over someday. Grbac's sudden departure left Carl with his pants down because he refuses to build from within at that position. Having castoff after castoff for QBs is the #1 reason this team has been so mediocre the last 8 years.
4. Hiring Dick Vermeil. Is there any other team that needs a total rebuilding worse than the Chiefs? Vermeil isnt the guy for the job. He is a 67 year old coach that doesnt have much to work with. He thought he was burned out with the Rams, just wait until those loses pile up here. Plus, it cost the Chiefs a 2nd round pick.
5. Signing Ray Crocket. What is it with the Chiefs and aging d-backs?
Best Moves in the off season
1. Letting Elvis go. Over and over, he proved his mental capacity for the game. Most of you guys fell in love with him, but hate him now that he has taken his average game elsewhere. Pretty typical.
2. Firing Gunter Cunningham. Horrible decision to hire, great decision to let him go. Was a mediocre defensive coach with Oakland.
3. Cutting Chester McGlockton. Again, lots of support for this guy last year, but now that he is gone, is the butt of many jokes on this board. Chiefs cut their loses after to many nuetral zone infractions and inconsitent play.
4. Saying good bye to Tim Grunhard. He was a good player a few years ago, but is to broken down and frustrated to be a solid contributor.
5. Getting compensation for Marty Shottenheimer. Good move by Carl. Marty is the best coach Carl has had during his 12 years in KC. He is certainly worth more than Vermeil. It would have been nice to get him back. Hell, he got 13 wins out of Bono and Grbac. I would like to see another coach duplicate that.
04-25-2001, 07:05 PM
I have no better idea than you what to expect our team to shape up like this season. I don't expect a good record (9-7 would be great), but I hope they show improvement and a different level of passion and enthuasiasm (and tackling :D) to the past few years. Anything else would be a bonus.
Many good points.
Trent Green is a better choice than Brad Johnson......
1) He knows the system......I know, I know, I'm sick of hearing that too.
2) Brad Johnson is very very similar to Grbac IMO - maybe a bit better mentally, but not any more accurate.
3) The fact that Billick went after Grbac and didn't try to reunite himself with Johnson doesn't bode well for Brad.
4) I think he has had a bum rap for his seasons in Washington, but paying that kind of contract to a Grbac-esque QB was not the way to go for the Chiefs who were struggling to meet the cap deadline.
5) He is injury-prone (Green has his knee problem, so that's a push).
6) Green comes cheap for 2 years, then a new contract can be cap friendly for a couple more years if necessary.
7) The #12 pick was steep, but CP did negotiate the deal extremely well in the end.
I can't argue with the 5-year contract given to CP. All I can say is that sometimes better the devil you know. I do think though that having DV is a good thing. They should work well together, and bring out the best in each other.
Bubby Brister.......I just can't comprehend this signing. Is Todd Collins really that bad? Or does he have a shot to beat him out in TC? Can he?
C'mon Ken......you lapsed when you asked if there is any other team that needs total rebuilding more than the Chiefs :p. Of course there are. KC has 13 players worth building around IMO. There may be others, but these are solid guys who could start on many teams IMO who are either young, under contract for the long term, or both: Tait, Riley, Shields, DA, SlyMo, Gonzo, T-Rich, Hicks, Clemons, Edwards, Maz, Wesley and Woods
Add in Green and Holmes as recent FA pickups, and you're looking at 15 starters. That's not a bad core. On the other hand, how many decent guys do the Cardinals have? Falcons? Bengals??? The Chiefs are not the worst off.......
Oh, by the way, I just realised......of the 13 guys I listed (not including Green and Holmes), 10 were drafted or picked up as undrafted rookie FAs. Not bad.....:D
04-25-2001, 07:31 PM
You mentioned "is Collins really that bad?".
I happened to be at a business meeting last week and I got into a conversation with a guy from New York. It started out talking about the Sabers vs. Flyers playoff series but then lead to the NFL draft.
He asked who I thought they should take and I said Morgan, Tomilson or Mcallister and a QBOTF in later rounds. :mad: But that is all history now. I then brought up the fact that Todd Collins is they only QB on the roster right now and they are probably going to trade for Green.
Unless I was being bull $hited, he went to college with Todd Collins at Michigan and said he is the nicest guy in the world with all the physical tools but the guy is "as dumb as a box of stumps".
I received no indication, gut feeling or otherwise, that he was lying. He certainly wasn't trying to impress me because he was much higher on the totem pole than I am. So to add some insight to your question:
Is Todd Collins really that bad?
I think he's really that dim-witted as opposed to "that bad".
Boy, I managed to stretch that one out.
04-25-2001, 08:32 PM
Thanks for the info Otter! Personally, I'd be surprised if Collins isn't able to beat Brister out of the back-up role. Knowing nothing about his intellect, when he's been on the field, he's done pretty well considering. Also he has shown flashes in pre-season the last couple of years, and Moon got that start last season against SD because of Gun's respect for him IMO. My guess is that Collins' biggest problem is going to be rustiness. How many guys could come back after 3-4 seasons of virtually no competitive play and put up decent numbers?? He must be fed up looking at how Grbac and Griese are getting on, when he was just as good or better in college.
04-25-2001, 08:33 PM
Misplaced Chief expresses my doubts about Green and Holmes better than I have been able to.
I have never been all that impressed with Green. And for those that say "Look at his QB rating" I think that is the single most over rated stat in all of sports.
As for Holmes, he should be no more than a 3rd down back. As an every down back, he is just to small and lacks endurance.
Please, let me be wrong!
04-25-2001, 09:17 PM
I agree, Collins no matter how dim witted has got to be fed up. The Chiefs Organization sent a very clear message to him: “you are our last resort, we have very little confidence in you.” I wouldn’t blame the guy at this point if he got up and walked away from it all. Starting Moon over him was a complete slap in the face. I could have thrown some of those passes better than him yet they keep Todd on the bench.
I feel bad for the guy but if he’s still our 3rd stringer this year he’s simply gotta be doing something wrong.
I have a pretty good feeling about Holmes, for whatever that is worth. I think Green and his knee are going to be the problem.
If that doesn’t convince you nothing will. :rolleyes:
04-25-2001, 09:23 PM
I honestly think that if we kept Hasty we'd have as good as shot as anyone in the AFC.
04-25-2001, 09:28 PM
"I could have thrown some of those passes better than him yet they keep Todd on the bench" - yet another reason to be happy Gunther and the stooges are gone :D. What a dumba$$ move, keeping Moon in there, especially in the second half.......
I always wanted Beuerlein and to use #12 for a DT, or trade down and get Lamont Jordan. I still think that would have been a good solution. Now we have a glut of RBs, none of which is the complete package IMO. Holmes, Cloud, Blaylock might all be the same style of guy, with varying speeds and abilities. T-Rich, Moreau and Layne all appear in the same mould too. I think we are going to have a 1-2 punch with Holmes and T-Rich. Maybe Blaylock will play a slot-receiver sometimes. Who knows what is going to happen. DV still thinks Cloud deserves a shot. It doesn't say much about our stable of backs if he gets "a shot" in this system. I am hopeful rather than confident that our running game will succeed.
I was never a Green fan while he was in Washington. He was nothing other than the best of a bad lot there IMO, and seemed to get the job by default. At least, that was my impression, watching from afar. But he has shown he can play in this system, in limited action. Obviously, the QB rating doesn't tell the whole story (sacks, rushing yards, 2-minute offense). But I really like his accuracy and his poise. He doesn't get flustered (maybe doesn't get flustered enough to get rid of the ball sometimes), and I am looking forward to seeing how he can do with more consistent PT.
04-25-2001, 09:35 PM
I am less concerned about Green's knee than most. Having torn my ACL and MCL, and working hard to rehab it, I have some familiarity with the process he's going through, and know that some rehab quicker than others.
It's his play that concerns me. He isn't "all that" IMO.
But in all honesty, he is at least as good as Grbac, I suppose. I just hate giving up that first rounder for him.
04-25-2001, 09:46 PM
He doesn't exactly have a impressive resume. Especially for almost being 30 years old. I'm concerned about that as well.
The first rounder hurt. I'll admit, I wanted to finally fix the RB situation with LT or Deuce. I can't believe we didn't get a QB to groom either. But like I said, I don't expect my ideas and the Chiefs to match up too much anymore.
How the heck did you tear your MCL and ACL?
I dislocated my knee cap and that took a long time to recover from. It still bugs me sometimes.
04-25-2001, 09:55 PM
Nothing glamorous about my accident. I fell off the back of my truck while off loading my empties, and caught my foot in the door latch. I got right back up and finished my day.
I didn't know how much damage I had done until a month after the accident. I couldn't straghten my knee, and walked with a limp. I finally got an MRI, and the surgery showed that I had two tears in the ACL, as well as the MCL.
If your not an athlete, they let scar tissue develop to replace the MCL, but the ACL can only be repaired through surgery.
04-26-2001, 04:08 AM
I know I'm late to this topic, but Christ I hat letting Hasty go..THis guy is one of the most underappreciated players and underestimated reasons we had that great record in the mid and late 90's...
He's a stud, a warrior, and now a free agent...
Say what you will, but this release actually bothers me and makes me wish the Chiefs were as interested in character as they say they are....
04-26-2001, 05:52 AM
I have a great deal of respect for Hasty, his play, and his leadership inclusive.
However, *something* was awry with his threatened retirements & contract squabbles. I dunno whose fault that was & probably very few people do or will. The media pointed the finger at Carl. I do think that in some way contributed to his release.
keg in kc
04-26-2001, 06:15 AM
Sorry, Brad, but how (and why) exactly are we supposed to keep a 36 year old corner on the roster when he's unwilling to negotiate down from a 6.5 million dollar paycheck when he's well-aware that the team is 30+ million over the cap. Remember: if he was still under contract now, even with everything that's happened, we'd be a couple million over.
He was a great player here, but this is something that we all knew was coming (or at least we should have known). He'd been talking retirement for a while, and he had a terrible relationship with the organization, largely due to Gunther, but also in no small part due to a strained relationship with Carl P.
It just wasn't in the cards...
04-26-2001, 09:01 PM
Giving up the second-round pick for Vermeil was the worst move IMO. We could win with all our picks, Grbac or Green, and Gunther or some other coach. Butch Davis would have made a nice head coach. Al Saunders and Art Shell would have been good coaches as well.
04-26-2001, 09:08 PM
I too like Art Shell, and I'd love to see Cowher get tired of Pitt, or Haslett get tired of New Orleans......
But it looks like we're going to be the West-Missouri Rams for a while, so I'll just try and enjoy it...
04-26-2001, 09:11 PM
2 or 3 wins in September will cheer us all up.
4 will make us giddy.
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