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View Full Version : My Final Thoughts on Chiefs Draft 2001


NaptownChief
04-22-2001, 05:13 PM
3rd rd- Eric Downing- Complete and total head scratcher. Appears to have been drafted two or three rounds early...DT was a large need but I would be shocked if he turns out better than Fatefehi.

3rd rd- Marvin Minnis- Also fills a need but absolutely can't believe we spend a high 3rd on this guy when Kevin Kasper and Ken-Yon Rambo could have been had much later. Passing on Kevan Barlow, Delawrence Grant and Brian Allen at this point will come back to haunt us for years...Minnis is scrawny, much slower and weaker than Kasper and bring plenty of attitude and baggage....This is a horrible pick at this point....On ability alone he would have been a good gamble in the 5th...

4th rd- Montey Beisel- I absolutely love this pick...The kid has performed at a very high level, has a great attitude and was physically one of the most impressive DE's at the combine...I was very surprised he was rated so low in many of the draft publications...This was one of the rare moments that I was found with a smile on my face during this draft weekend...

4th rd- George Layne- Another real head scratcher...With TRich most likely being moved back to FB this is not really a need position and appears to be a little bit of a stretch taking him this high especially considering he will be filling the backup FB position on a team that will be mostly running one back sets....

5th rd- Bill Baber- WTF? Will probably be used in the H-Back mold of a E.Conwell role. From what I have read he is a decent athlete and could contribute...But Jason Dunn was just re-signed and TGon is our man...So this is not a horrible pick but really had me wondering why we didn't take advantage of some other value that they wanted like M.McMahon or a safety like Akbar who was still available...Little doubt in my mind that we could have still gotten Baber with our next 5th round pick and would not have lost McMahon.

5th rd- Derrick Blaylock- Was still very disappointed to see Kevin Kasper still on the board and us not take him, but I was pretty happy with this pick...It is a gamble but he does have huge speed and good hands...On paper he sounds like he could be a great fit for our offense as a poor mans Faulk...

6th rd- Alex Sultsted- Another pick that made me say WTF? My self-admitted weakness is evaluating offensive lineman especially someone from a small school program so I won't even try to personally evaluate this guy...But considering all the draft publications I could find don't have this guy as even being drafted makes me not feel too good about it, plus Kevin Kasper and Keith Adams are still on the board thus making me feel horrible with this selection. All I have to say is when Kevin Kasper is kicking our a$$ twice a year for the Donks just remember we took ALEX SULTSTED ahead of him...

7th rd - Shaunard Harts- I know nothing on this one...Sounds like a good athlete and a decent project. But Cory Hall from Appl State would have been a better project at safety...Ennis Davis DT from USC, Ken-yon Rambo, Reggie Germany and Keith Adams were all available and would have been much better value...


So in summary with the exception of Beisel, Blaylock and possibly Baber I feel like our personnel decision for Draft Weekend 2001 were pretty questionable and full of poor value based on where many of the players were selected...If Beisel turns out to be the player I think he will, we will look back at this draft as having an impact on our future. But considering the depth of this draft and the questionable picks at the places they were selected I would give the team of CP and DV a grade of D+...I am more disappointed in who we didn't get as opposed to upset with who we got. As I have mentioned many times, passing on Kevin Kasper especially in the 6th round will come back to haunt us...This kid will be a very solid NFL player at worst and the reality is the guys we selected in the 6th and 7th rounds will have a very tough time even making our roster...I am not completely sold on Kevin Barlow but passing on him in the 3rd for Marvin Minnis was probably a big mistake considering we could have gotten WR's such as Kasper and Rambo later on who are ever bit the receiver that Minnis is....Oh by the way did I ever mention that I am pissed off that we passed on Kevin Kasper?

oleman47
04-22-2001, 05:20 PM
This is the sleeper draft except for Minnis. Missed Grammatica and many other really good players, Why?

htismaqe
04-22-2001, 05:29 PM
jl80,

I hate to be critical, but...

You seem to be down on Downing because you haven't heard of him. It seem to me that the guys you think highly of are guys that you've seen (primarily KState Wildcats)...

As for the TE, Dunn hasn't been healthy since two years before he got here. This guy looks to be a really good receiving TE...

NaptownChief
04-22-2001, 05:37 PM
If Downing were from small school U like Wesley being from Ark Pine Bluff then I would be much more hesitant to be critical...Most of the draft publications are pretty good at getting info on big school players but not so good at getting info on small school guys...But he played at a big school in a very visible conference and made virtually no noise...That bothers me...I watched a couple Cuse games this year and he never even showed up on radar...

Sure hope I am wrong and he turns out to be a stud but this smells more like Trezelle Jenkins than it does Greg Wesley...

keg in kc
04-22-2001, 05:50 PM
As I said in another thread, we need to remember we're talking about 3rd-7th round picks here, and it's a complete and total crapshoot. I gave a little bit more specific analysis of the picks elsewhere, so I won't repeat it here. In the end, though, I don't see any reason to be too awfully concerned about these players, they all make sense IMO looking at the roster/depth chart, with the exception of the TE, and most of the players we chose were sleeper picks rumored to be moving up several teams' charts, and Blaylock, whom we simply couldn't pass up in the 5th round. There may be other names we'd like to have seen drafted, but there's no guarantee that they would be any better than what we drafted...

philfree
04-22-2001, 06:04 PM
I'm not a Carl basher but look on the bright side, we don't have to worry about our 1st round pick not signing a contract till after trainning camp has started.

PhilFree

DaWolf
04-22-2001, 06:22 PM
But I LOVED those long, drawn out negotiations with first rounders! Hopefully Steiner and Carl get into a pissing match over an extension, I need some more Carl quotes to add to my signature... :)

DaneMcCloud
04-22-2001, 08:17 PM
Downing had 72 tackles and 9 1/2 sacks for Syracuse last year in the Big East. Depending on the source, Downing was projected anywhere from 3rd to 6th round. The Chiefs like him because he got bigger, stronger and faster this offseason. They also think that he could immediately become a part of the rotation. Sounds like a dedicated, hungry player to me, which is exactly what the D-line has been missing.
As I mentioned earlier, one of my buddies is a coach at Boise State, and he thinks we'll love Harts. He smart, dedicated and has football instincts, plus he's a kick returner. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Beisel scares me because everyone here loves him, (just like Fatafahi), and that's because he's a K-Stater. If anything, he's the one I don't see making the team.
Layne and Blaylock (who I love!) are good picks because the Chiefs had no true fullback to back up Richardson, and Blaylock could be a Warrick Dunn/Tiki Barber type player. He's fast (4.3 40), is a good outside runner and can catch. Again, sounds pretty good to me.
Snoop is a great pickup because he's been a gamer for Florida State, and always kicks butt in big games. Charlie Joiner LOVES the guy, so that's a pretty good endorsement. If it hadn't have been for his suspension from this year's National Championship game (which they probably would have won with him), he would have been a low first round to second round pick.
Bill Baber, the TE, was a necessary pick. Jason Dunn hadn't been healthy since 1997 and if Gonzalez goes down, who do you start? The Chiefs needed depth and athleticism at the position, which is another indication of HOW IMPORTANT THE TIGHT END WILL BE IN THE NEW SYSTEM! (for those of you who doubt that T Gon will be a big part!)
Stulstedt comes across as another Darnell Alford type guy. Big, strong athletic but his attitude will determine how far he goes with his career. Let's hope Dickie V can get him (and Alford) into gear.
I think this is a solid but not spectacular draft. The Chiefs really didn't have any ammo in which to move up, so staying put and getting solid players wasn't a bad idea.

ChiTown
04-23-2001, 07:52 AM
Dane

I don't know how old you are, but do you remember a guy named Gary Spani who played for the Chiefs in the 70's & 80's. Spani was a guy who was not flashy, but was one of those players who "brought his lunch pale to work every day". The first time I saw Monty play (as a freshman at KSU), I knew that he was cut out of the same cloth as a Gary Spani. Spani ended up being the Chiefs leading tackler for a good 5-6 years playing middle linebacker, and may have made all pro 1 year as well.

At any rate, I tell you this only because Monty is the real deal. He, like Spani, is not flashy, not a 6'5" DE, not the fastest guy in the world, but, he will make plays and he will inspire others to do better. Not only will he make the Chiefs team, I would bet that he will play a lot on 3rd down situations for the Chiefs in 2001.

For those of you that know nothing of Monty Beisel, you will be pleasantly suprised. For me, I'll just view his solid play this year as business as usual.

alanm
04-23-2001, 08:15 AM
We could have had Carlos Polk for a song too...

keg in kc
04-23-2001, 08:23 AM
We could name hundreds of players we could have gotten, and have no guarantee that any of them will pan out as quality NFL players.

Neither is there a guarantee that the players we did draft won't pan out...

NaptownChief
04-23-2001, 08:49 AM
Keg,

Your expectation for what a team should get out of six total picks in the 3rd, 4th & 5th round of a very deep draft is extremely low...You are carring the attitude that it really doesn't matter cause you shouldn't expect much from those picks...That is very wrong IMO...I could type for hours the names of guys and teams that were built off of smart selections in these slots...

ChiTown
04-23-2001, 09:13 AM
One of those teams has traditionally been the Chiefs. While they have flamed in recent #1 and 2 rounds, they have excelled with finding good value in rds 3-5. To Piss away(and I think that is what they did with 4-6 picks) those picks is very disappointing to say the least.

I know it is impossible to tell what, if any, value those guys will bring. However, it is cloudy at best as to what our braintrust was thinking.

ChiTown
~Not slamming our manangement, just questioning the calls

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 11:56 AM
All this talk about bad draft decisions etc.etc got me looking back at previous thoughts...

I know on occasion I will tend to throw my arm out of socket patting myself on the back but looking at my post draft analysis I must give myself some credit...

Virtually every player we drafted and waived I had listed as a "head scratcher" or a "WTF" pick...The only exception is Downing which the jury is still out.

So maybe some of us do know more than our personnel guys...:D

Hoover
09-28-2001, 12:02 PM
I think this was a depth draft.

To build they type of team DV want we need to be deep. It also will be a very cheap draft.

Layne, Barber, Sands, are all on the practice team and should make the team next year. If we had a 1 and a 2 I think we would have had a real stud, but we did get Green and DV.

KCTitus
09-28-2001, 12:04 PM
maybe you should send this to KC's front office, maybe they will hire you.

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Hoover

Layne, Barber, Sands, are all on the practice team and should make the team next year. .

If these guys were good picks then some other team would have already grabbed them up and signed them to their active roster...

Not to say that they can't develop into something some day but they are technically Free Agents and nobody wants them...

Hoover
09-28-2001, 12:09 PM
Sands and Layne were hurt, I believe.


I don't think this was a good or a bad draft. I think we have to wait. I like Snoop thus far. Downing we will see. Blaylock I like. i think we got a lot of projects.

Hoover

Hoover
09-28-2001, 12:12 PM
I think there is a fine line. Hicks was never drafted, along with Richardson, and Trent Green was on the practice tema with Washington. I think a lot of good players have been on the practice teams at one point. They need some time to adjust to the NFL.

Hoover

stevieray
09-28-2001, 12:14 PM
Of all the things gun had trouble with, evaluating talent was not one of them. His drafts were more productive than this years.


I mean in terms of longevity...Hicks, Maz, Wesley, now Warfield, etc

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Hoover
I think there is a fine line. Hicks was never drafted, along with Richardson, and Trent Green was on the practice tema with Washington. I think a lot of good players have been on the practice teams at one point. They need some time to adjust to the NFL.

Hoover


That is absolutely true...But if you spend a draft pick on a guy that you could have gotten as a free agent then you failed to properly evaluate that players value on draft day...


Similar to the example I gave the other day....If you pay $75K for a $40,000 car that doesn't mean that it isn't a good car, but it does mean that you made a very poor business decision...

Hoover
09-28-2001, 12:34 PM
I see your point.

ck_IN
09-28-2001, 12:43 PM
I think this was a depth draft.

To build they type of team DV want we need to be deep. It also will be a very cheap draft.

But of course! It's all clear now. The glare from all those shining playmaking stars we have must've gotten in my eyes. Draft for depth your first year in a draft that's been noted for its playmakers. The brilliance is so obvious.

As I've said before: When you have 9 picks and 4 don't even make the team with a 5th on IR, you've had a p$ss poor draft.

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by ck_IN

As I've said before: When you have 9 picks and 4 don't even make the team with a 5th on IR, you've had a p$ss poor draft.

Especially when you consider the holes we have....It's not like these guys were trying to make a roster that was deep with talent...

keg in kc
09-28-2001, 12:55 PM
I think I'd pop my arm back into the socket if I were you Joe.

Our two 3rd rounders are both in the playing rotation and making contributions. One of our fourth rounders (Beisel) and one of our fifth rounders (Blaylock) are special teamers on the roster. The rest of our picks, with the exception of Sulfsted (Cinci ps) are on the developmental squad. Sands is injured and protected by the reserve/IR list, so he's apparently a long-term project.

That's a roadmap that's pretty similar to what you'd see from any other team in the league regarding 3rd to 7th round picks -- some of the guys were ready to play and some are projects. Apparently none of the picks were busts because they're all either being developed or contributing. I don't think we have *any* reason to complain at this point about our draft picks.

I'm sure I'm in the minority and the grass is greener elsewhere and every franchise did a better job and gee whiz I wish we had this player and that player and his brother, but hey, I was the first and most vocal critic of Minnis and Downing and much to my surprise both of the guys have shown they might just be NFL-calibre players. Again, I don't see any reason to complain at this point, although I do wish we had another receiver (NOT a rookie).

Come back in about 2 and a half years, then we'll really be able to give "final thoughts" on these guys.

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by keg in kc
I think I'd pop my arm back into the socket if I were you Joe.

Our two 3rd rounders are both in the playing rotation and making contributions. One of our fourth rounders (Beisel) and one of our fifth rounders (Blaylock) are special teamers on the roster. The rest of our picks, with the exception of Sulfsted (Cinci ps) are on the developmental squad. Sands is injured and protected by the reserve/IR list, so he's apparently a long-term project.




Kyle,

Are we talking about the same team? Our two 3rd rounders are not both playing and making contributions...Downing was not even active week 1, and did not register anything in week 2...

I not positive on this but Blaylock has not been active yet to my knowledge. But if you read my review, Beisel and Blaylock are the two picks I liked...

As for Minnis, he is playing by default on what has been the worst offense in the AFC...Hardly, a world breaking contribution yet...

As for the rest, being waived speaks for itself...

KCTitus
09-28-2001, 01:07 PM
Correction, Joe, Seattle is the worst Offense in the AFC, KC is next to last.

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 01:09 PM
sorry...:D

KCTitus
09-28-2001, 01:39 PM
Just for grins, I went and checked out our Division rivals 3rd-7th rnd picks to see how they fared. Here are the results:

Raiders:
DeLawrence Grant-DE, on the roster was not active for wk 1
Raymond Perryman-S, on the practice squad
Chris Cooper-DT, on the practice squad
Derek Combs-RB, on Dolphins Roster
Ken Yon Rambo-WR, on Cowboys Roster

Broncos:
Reggie Hayward-DE, on the roster, not active
Ben Hamilton-C, on the roster, not active
Nick Harris-P, on Bengals roster
Kevin Kasper-WR, on the roster, played wk 1

Seahawks:
Heath Evans-FB, on the roster, played wk 1
Orlando Huff-OLB, on the roster, not active
Curtis Fuller-FS, on the roster, played
Pork Chop Womack-LG, on the roster, played
Alex Bannister-WR, on the roster, played
Josh Booty-QB, on Browns roster
Harold Blackmon-CB, on roster, played
Dennis Norman-LG, on roster, not active
Kris Kocurik-DT, cut

Chargers:
Tay Cody-CB, on roster, played
Carlos Polk-ILB, on roster, played
Elliot Silvers-LT, on roster, played
Zeke Moreno-ILB, on roster, played
Brandon Gorin-RT, on roster, played
Robert Carswell-FS, on roster, played

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 01:42 PM
I wonder if there is any correlation between the Bolts and the Donks being 2-0 and also being the only teams getting production out of their mid to late round picks...hmmmmm

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 01:43 PM
Well, looks like the Hawks are getting production also but that doesn't seem to be helping...I guess there is no direct correlation.

KCTitus
09-28-2001, 01:43 PM
The donks only had one player, that being Kasper that made contributions and I would deem those contributions significant. Chargers OTOH played the skins...I'd have to say the jury's still out but was amazing to see that all of their picks made the roster and did play.

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 01:45 PM
But one major difference for us compared to the Raiders and Donks...It would be much easier to step in a make contributions for a bad team like us than it would be on a good team.

Phobia
09-28-2001, 01:58 PM
I would not have been pissed even if Kasper was one of our 3rd round picks. The guy was amazing and will probably kick the crap our of McCaffrey's numbers when he retires (assuming he experiences the same longevity).

Kasper is a playmaker and fits the kind of WR DV wants - WHY DIDN'T WE PICK HIM????

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 02:03 PM
KPhob,

I completely agree...I think Kasper by himself would have made this a successful draft for us...

But on the brightside, we have that roadgrader of a DT in Downing...:D

ck_IN
09-28-2001, 02:08 PM
we have that roadgrader of a DT in Downing

Not to mention a game breaking playmaker in Snoop. ;)

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 02:11 PM
ck in,

Most these people don't understand why guys like us are such biter fans but they have not had to be associated with perennial disappointment like you and I...

Chiefs, Colts, Pacers, IU Football....A man can only be beaten down for so long...:D

htismaqe
09-28-2001, 02:22 PM
Now I understand... :D

jcroft
09-28-2001, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by ck_IN


Not to mention a game breaking playmaker in Snoop. ;)

Don't you feel a *little* foolish about making this (obviously sarcastic) comment about Snoop, when it was he who did, in fact, have THE big play in each of the two games we have played?

I've got no problem with you not being that high on Snoop. I don't have any problem with your comments that he is raw and needs more experience (I agree). But if there's ONE thing that the guy has shown me, it's that he makes big plays when we need them. He seems to be a pressure player. Twice he has come up with a huge catch at a point in the game in which we were trying to rally.

How can you complain about his playmaking skizzils?

Just curious. :D

ck_IN
09-28-2001, 03:03 PM
Jcroft, here's my thing take it for what it's worth: Snoop has made <b>TWO</b> great catches. Great for him. Golf claps all around. But how many routine passes has he dropped? How often has he gotten open when we needed a catch? Snoop can do some things and when put in the slot and used as a posession receiver he can contribute. But a playmaker, ala Harrison, Irving, Rice, Brown, he's not and never will be.

JL80, I was with you till you got to IU football. I'm a Notre Dame fan, which lately has had it's own 'character building' aspect. :(

jcroft
09-28-2001, 03:16 PM
Well...

You may be right; he may never be a playmaker on the levels of the guys you mention. I think it's too early to tell. But again, you say, "How often has he gotten open when we needed a catch?"

Well, obviously at least twice! :)

It might not be much, but as it stands, he's been our "playmaker" in both games. I don't think anyone on offense, including the Tonys, have been more productive than Snoop...

I'm not claiming the guy to be great (or even that he WILL be great), but for a rookie to step up in the defining moments of a gaem...well, I think that shows a lot of character, and that can go a long way...

htismaqe
09-28-2001, 03:23 PM
Croft,

Give it up, dude. You're treading on the turf of 2 very, very bitter people... :D

jcroft
09-28-2001, 03:44 PM
Hah...you're probably right. But, I respect their opinions. I certainly respect that they are more knowledgable than I. I just like Snoop. And he seem to have potential. And it's only been two games. And all of that.

So, I appologize if I offended anyone. I disagree with their opinions. But I most certainly disagree RESPECTFULLY.

:)

NaptownChief
09-28-2001, 03:48 PM
jcroft,

I personally like the potenial of Snoop also...Glad to have him on the team just wish we would have got him in the 4th or 5th...He would probably been gone by the time we were up in the 5th but my gut feeling is that he would have been there in the 4th...

I like Snoop, but just feel like it was a mistake to pass on Kevan Barlow.

You guys have a great weekend...I'm headed out to drink some beer and eat some gumbo...

htismaqe
09-28-2001, 03:50 PM
Later Nap, if all goes well, I'll be a Dad by Monday...

crossbow
09-28-2001, 04:23 PM
Snoop was supposed to be our 3rd wideout. He is the guy that made up for the loss of Lockett. He is being used as a #2 receiver because of inujuries. So, in that respect I think it was a good selection but also agree that it was done at the wrong pick.

I too was bothered by the Defensive choices that looked like they could have been taken in later rounds. No explosion off the line. I guess they will try to teach that...hmm.

Barlow would have beaten out Frank Morau easily and could have contributed right away on special screw ups...i mean special teams. He has respectable speed and very good size. Showed good hands at the combine too. Not taking him was a mistake.

I thought I was going to get sick when Washington took Smoot in the second round. I was hoping we would get him.

I liked getting Blaylock in the 5th round. That was a possible steal.

Lets hope they don't trade any more picks and wisely use what they get next year.

Gaz
09-29-2001, 08:13 AM
I will publish my final thoughts on the 2001 draft sometime in 2005.

Stay tuned, but don't hold your breath.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has not even started a rough draft yet.

Ultra Peanut
09-29-2001, 08:45 AM
didn't take advantage of some other value that they wanted like M.McMahon *cries*