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Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:29 AM
I enrolled at UCO for this fall, which after much thought seems to be a mistake. I changed my major to criminal justice instead of History and have to change my classes. Well, finding the classes are tough because it's so late. The main thing is, is that the college is going to be a 12-15 mile drive from where I work, where I will live. It looks like I could drive there up to 4-5 days a week.

I've been seriously thinking about unenrolling there and applying to school at OSUOKC. It seems that I would get my associates next winter. I would like to then finish up at UCO after that if I need to. OSUOKC is so much closer to where we will live/work. They offer the same courses, UCO just offers more courses. It would be cheaper to go to school at OSUOKC and would save a lot of gas.


What's your opinion?

big nasty kcnut
06-23-2007, 01:33 AM
Do it cause it would be a better fit and be more inline with your budget and closeness to where you live.

Miles
06-23-2007, 01:34 AM
12-15 mile drive doesn't seem like it should be enough of a burden to not stick with what your are already doing.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:35 AM
Do it cause it would be a better fit and be more inline with your budget and closeness to where you live.


It's not too late is it?

I've already got my gen eds done besides a math and science so I'd jump right into my degree.

It would save us so much money, me not driving 100+ miles a week for school. The fiance has already enrolled into this school and got out of UCO.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 01:35 AM
I did something similar where I earned my Associates at a community college and then transferred to a four-year school. Try to get a Tuesday-Thursday schedule so you won't do as much driving. I drive 40 miles to attend the University of Central Missouri and to do it more than twice a week gets exhausting.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:36 AM
12-15 mile drive doesn't seem like it should be enough of a burden to not stick with what your are already doing.

Well yeah, but that turns into a 30+ minute drive in mild traffic and I'd have to leave work earlier then I would at this other school to get to class.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:38 AM
I did something similar where I earned my Associates at a community college and then transferred to a four-year school. Try to get a Tuesday-Thursday schedule so you won't do as much driving. I drive 40 miles to attend the University of Central Missouri and to do it more than twice a week gets exhausting.


Yeah, I looked into it earlier and every class I would need to take is full. I was looking at this:

Monday: 6-845
Tues: 8-915 a.m
Thurs: 8-915 a.m and 7-10:15

And that's only 9 hours.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 01:41 AM
It sounds like OSU-OKC works best for you right now.

Phobia
06-23-2007, 01:41 AM
Is everything the same except for the commute? Schools comparable? Credits transfer? Price?

If so, I don't think there's anything to even discuss.

But if you're transferring from a fair school to a crappy school to save a few minutes and a couple bucks in gas, I don't think that's a wise investment.

We're talking 12 miles dude. I consider a 12 mile drive to be nearby.

wutamess
06-23-2007, 01:41 AM
No brainer dude.

Dave Ramsey says that prestige of college is no longer a plus as companies are just wanting to know if you've had the hustle & bustle to complete school period.

If you look at it it makes sense.

I went to college and graduated with a bachelors in Computer Science and didn't know shit. I figured it was because of the school I went to but I quickly realized that others were in my predicament that went to (BIG schools) Missou, KSU, etc was in the same boat. I even went back to community college to "polish my skills" on some things.

Local/closest college is a great thing if it's challenging which they all pretty much teach the same curriculum.

I'd stick closer and always have a goal and work towards it.

You'll be alright. Time makes everything better.

Miles
06-23-2007, 01:44 AM
Well yeah, but that turns into a 30+ minute drive in mild traffic and I'd have to leave work earlier then I would at this other school to get to class.

If it cuts too much into your work schedule I could see it being a problem. That drive still isn't bad and if its the school you want to eventually your a degree from It seems like it wouldn't hurt to stay the course and go straight through rather than dealing with transfers.

However, if you are certain all of the course work you are doing at the community college will transfer as credits and you are also certain you can/will be re-enrolled at UCO (and will do it) that may be a nice way to save money.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 01:44 AM
Yeah, I looked into it earlier and every class I would need to take is full. I was looking at this:

Monday: 6-845
Tues: 8-915 a.m
Thurs: 8-915 a.m and 7-10:15

And that's only 9 hours.

Waking up early for an 8 a.m. class is something I will never do again. Sleep deprivation is a bad thing.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:45 AM
Is everything the same except for the commute? Schools comparable? Credits transfer? Price?

If so, I don't think there's anything to even discuss.

But if you're transferring from a fair school to a crappy school to save a few minutes and a couple bucks in gas, I don't think that's a wise investment.

We're talking 12 miles dude. I consider a 12 mile drive to be nearby.

Not sure about the credit transfer to either school yet. OSUOKC is just a smaller branch of Oklahoma State U. I'm going towards a criminal justice degree...so any education is just a plus on my resume. The fiance said OSUOKC is quite a bit cheaper also.

A major part is my truck. It has a lot of miles 152K and I need it to last until I get a real job. So, the less driving I do during the next two years will help.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:46 AM
Waking up early for an 8 a.m. class is something I will never do again. Sleep deprivation is a bad thing.


No kidding. I could get up every day of the week at 8 a.m. to be at work but have a hell of a time getting to an 8 a.m. class.

Phobia
06-23-2007, 01:48 AM
Not sure about the credit transfer to either school yet. OSUOKC is just a smaller branch of Oklahoma State U. I'm going towards a criminal justice degree...so any education is just a plus on my resume. The fiance said OSUOKC is quite a bit cheaper also.

A major part is my truck. It has a lot of miles 152K and I need it to last until I get a real job. So, the less driving I do during the next two years will help.

Dude, vehicles are gonna break down. You can't put your life on hold worrying about the reliability of your truck. If it's that bad, ditch the truck and find yourself an old ugly honda or toyota that is really fuel efficient.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 01:49 AM
Not sure about the credit transfer to either school yet. OSUOKC is just a smaller branch of Oklahoma State U. I'm going towards a criminal justice degree...so any education is just a plus on my resume. The fiance said OSUOKC is quite a bit cheaper also.

A major part is my truck. It has a lot of miles 152K and I need it to last until I get a real job. So, the less driving I do during the next two years will help.

OSU should take the credits since the schools are affiliated. Getting accepted into OSU should be easy if you graduate from OSUOKC.

wutamess
06-23-2007, 01:50 AM
Dude, vehicles are gonna break down. You can't put your life on hold worrying about the reliability of your truck. If it's that bad, ditch the truck and find yourself an old ugly honda or toyota that is really fuel efficient.

Phil has a pretty non-efficient life at this point. It's evident by the 57, 599 posts he has.

Damn Phil... Do you get out?

Miles
06-23-2007, 01:51 AM
Guess I should have asked this earlier since I don't know either of the abbreviations for the universities. Are they both schools where you can graduate with a bachelors and which one is regarded as a better school in your area?

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:52 AM
Hey Phob, when I talked to you about that Mathis Brothers job it took me a week before I realized that I hadn't applied to the job just filled out my resume on their website. So I applied last Monday and haven't gotten a call or anything yet. One of my fiances best friends works there and told me she would take me in there on Tuesday to talk to them. She says they are hiring in the warehouse and start out at 8 an hour and give good raises. A dollar more then I would make here.

Phobia
06-23-2007, 01:52 AM
Phil has a pretty non-efficient life at this point. It's evident by the 57, 599 posts he has.

Damn Phil... Do you get out?

I never leave the house. I'm on this computer 24/7.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:53 AM
OSU should take the credits since the schools are affiliated. Getting accepted into OSU should be easy if you graduate from OSUOKC.


If I decide to I'd be tranferring to UCO which is 15 miles from OSUOKC.

Miles
06-23-2007, 01:53 AM
Waking up early for an 8 a.m. class is something I will never do again. Sleep deprivation is a bad thing.

You mean rough hangovers in class is a bad thing.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:54 AM
Guess I should have asked this earlier since I don't know either of the abbreviations for the universities. Are they both schools where you can graduate with a bachelors and which one is regarded as a better school in your area?


No, UCO would be a bachelors and OSUOKC is an associates. Like I said before, I don't even need an education to be a police officer, I'm just going to do it anyway because I'm almost done.

Phobia
06-23-2007, 01:55 AM
Hey Phob, when I talked to you about that Mathis Brothers job it took me a week before I realized that I hadn't applied to the job just filled out my resume on their website. So I applied last Monday and haven't gotten a call or anything yet. One of my fiances best friends works there and told me she would take me in there on Tuesday to talk to them. She says they are hiring in the warehouse and start out at 8 an hour and give good raises. A dollar more then I would make here.

Dude, I'm paying a high school kid $8 an hour - cash money. You need to find somebody like me down there. I'd pay you $10 an hour if you could drive 200 screws an hour.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 01:56 AM
If I decide to I'd be tranferring to UCO which is 15 miles from OSUOKC.

I'd call the school and ask if they have a good relationship with the other school in terms of transfers.

wutamess
06-23-2007, 01:57 AM
I'd pay you $10 an hour if you could drive 200 screws an hour.

Show me that guy and I'll show you some sore puzzies.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:58 AM
Dude, I'm paying a high school kid $8 an hour - cash money. You need to find somebody like me down there. I'd pay you $10 an hour if you could drive 200 screws an hour.

That'd be nice. She said Mathis is really good with your class schedules and you work 8-5 M-F sometimes on Saturdays with Sundays off.

Hell, she even said you just load furniture and wait around for the next buyer to load more. She said half the time people are playing hacky sack in the warehouse and other junk.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 01:59 AM
I'd call the school and ask if they have a good relationship with the other school in terms of transfers.


Yeah, I'm calling them on my day off on Tuesday and asking everything I need to know.

Phobia
06-23-2007, 02:02 AM
That'd be nice. She said Mathis is really good with your class schedules and you work 8-5 M-F sometimes on Saturdays with Sundays off.

Hell, she even said you just load furniture and wait around for the next buyer to load more. She said half the time people are playing hacky sack in the warehouse and other junk.

Dude, start picking small construction companies out of the phone book. At least then you'll be developing some practical skills which can be applied on your own home someday. You certainly won't be standing around playing hacky sack but you'll learn a lot of stuff. Who knows, you may even enjoy it.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 02:04 AM
Dude, start picking small construction companies out of the phone book. At least then you'll be developing some practical skills which can be applied on your own home someday. You certainly won't be standing around playing hacky sack but you'll learn a lot of stuff. Who knows, you may even enjoy it.


Yeah, I did that two summers ago for a month. It was steel construction...the job itself wasn't dumb but the fact that the dudes starting pay was 6.50 was rediculous. It took my brother three years before he got to 9.00 an hour. He doesn't work there anymore either and makes a shit ton as a welder.

Miles
06-23-2007, 02:04 AM
No, UCO would be a bachelors and OSUOKC is an associates. Like I said before, I don't even need an education to be a police officer, I'm just going to do it anyway because I'm almost done.

I missed that you wanted to get into law enforcement. I don't know a lot about advancement in the field even though one of my friends is a police officer. Is there a point in your future career where a degree in anything or even better a bachelor in criminal justice would help your career in law enforcement? If so you may have your answer.

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 02:06 AM
I missed that you wanted to get into law enforcement. I don't know a lot about advancement in the field even though one of my friends is a police officer. Is there a point in your future career where a degree in anything or even better a bachelor in criminal justice would help your career? If so you may have your answer.


Yep, I know in Oklahoma city, if you want to be a luitanent (sp) you have to have 60 credit hours...I think...could be wrong though.

An associates is 60 hours.

Miles
06-23-2007, 02:12 AM
Yep, I know in Oklahoma city, if you want to be a luitanent (sp) you have to have 60 credit hours...I think...could be wrong though.

An associates is 60 hours.

Anything more needed for advancement past lieutenant? Would it help you advance faster if you had a bachelors?

Dunit35
06-23-2007, 02:14 AM
Anything more needed for advancement past lieutenant? Would it help you advance faster if you had a bachelors?


I have no idea...would have to ask. All I can say is I'm ready to get done with school.

DaneMcCloud
06-23-2007, 02:15 AM
No brainer dude.

Dave Ramsey says that prestige of college is no longer a plus as companies are just wanting to know if you've had the hustle & bustle to complete school period.

If you look at it it makes sense.

I went to college and graduated with a bachelors in Computer Science and didn't know shit. I figured it was because of the school I went to but I quickly realized that others were in my predicament that went to (BIG schools) Missou, KSU, etc was in the same boat. I even went back to community college to "polish my skills" on some things.

Local/closest college is a great thing if it's challenging which they all pretty much teach the same curriculum.

I'd stick closer and always have a goal and work towards it.

You'll be alright. Time makes everything better.

No offense, but this is completely untrue anywhere in the country than *maybe* the Midwest. A degree from Kansas State is NOT the the same as a degree from Stanford, USC, Georgetown, etc. The income levels between graduating from one of those schools and K-State or Emporia State, Oklahome State or somewhere like that is HUGE. I mean HUGE.

My advice to get the very BEST education you can afford, regardless of current inconvenience. It could be the difference between struggling through life and a much more rewarding life.

Miles
06-23-2007, 02:28 AM
No offense, but this is completely untrue anywhere in the country than *maybe* the Midwest. A degree from Kansas State is NOT the the same as a degree from Stanford, USC, Georgetown, etc. The income levels between graduating from one of those schools and K-State or Emporia State, Oklahome State or somewhere like that is HUGE. I mean HUGE.

My advice to get the very BEST education you can afford, regardless of current inconvenience. It could be the difference between struggling through life and a much more rewarding life.

That would be pretty much my take as well on both counts.

However I don't think the prestige of the degree (unless its a grad degree) is quite as key if you have no intentions to go anywhere else outside the region, but it still opens more doors regardless.

Miles
06-23-2007, 02:38 AM
I have no idea...would have to ask. All I can say is I'm ready to get done with school.

That would probably be worth looking into. If you can get it done now it would likely be easier to get it all done now. However if you are burnt out on school and will half ass your way through finishing it up now it may be worth considering time off.

You may PM denverchief. Even though its not the same jurisdiction he seems to be several steps further along on the law enforcement path.

Reerun_KC
06-23-2007, 09:02 AM
Dunit35 Let me know when you get way stressed and need a cold one... I am only 3-5 miles from where you live....

Rain Man
06-23-2007, 09:34 AM
No offense, but this is completely untrue anywhere in the country than *maybe* the Midwest. A degree from Kansas State is NOT the the same as a degree from Stanford, USC, Georgetown, etc. The income levels between graduating from one of those schools and K-State or Emporia State, Oklahome State or somewhere like that is HUGE. I mean HUGE.

My advice to get the very BEST education you can afford, regardless of current inconvenience. It could be the difference between struggling through life and a much more rewarding life.

I agree with your premise in general, but have to nitpick a little. Schools in California and the East Coast will probably have higher starting salaries because their graduates are living in places with higher salary structures (and costs of living), more so than employers paying more for their schools.

That said, for undergraduate school I wouldn't go to a no-name school and I wouldn't pay for an expensive private school. I'd go for a state school with a good reputation and name recognition, like Texas or Michigan. Pretty much any school named "University of [insert state here]" is a good deal for undergrad.

For grad school, I'd spring for an elite school, because your career path from there is more dependent on connections.

wutamess
06-23-2007, 09:43 AM
No offense, but this is completely untrue anywhere in the country than *maybe* the Midwest. A degree from Kansas State is NOT the the same as a degree from Stanford, USC, Georgetown, etc. The income levels between graduating from one of those schools and K-State or Emporia State, Oklahome State or somewhere like that is HUGE. I mean HUGE.

My advice to get the very BEST education you can afford, regardless of current inconvenience. It could be the difference between struggling through life and a much more rewarding life.


Going from the state community school to the state university is not going to make 1 hill of beans in his case. He's going for criminal justice, not to be head CSC grad at MIT.

Dude get the cheapest/closest (bang for your buck) education you can get. Your (3'D's) determination, drive and desires are what will get you what you want through the rest of your life. The paper just gets your foot in the door. No one's going to make you a sergeant just because you graduated from Harvard. It'll get you in the door but then your attitude determines how far/quickly you'll get.

When you're working for 2-3 years no one gives a shit what school you came from as your experience, drive, and initiative is what will be the determining factor in everything you do from that point.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 06:16 PM
I would apply at a law enforcement agency that is near the school you are graduating from. They will know what you know. Find out how many people at the agency graduated from your school.

Your resume will get you an interview, but how you perform during the interview will determine if you get the job.

DaneMcCloud
06-23-2007, 08:24 PM
Going from the state community school to the state university is not going to make 1 hill of beans in his case. He's going for criminal justice, not to be head CSC grad at MIT.

Dude get the cheapest/closest (bang for your buck) education you can get. Your (3'D's) determination, drive and desires are what will get you what you want through the rest of your life. The paper just gets your foot in the door. No one's going to make you a sergeant just because you graduated from Harvard. It'll get you in the door but then your attitude determines how far/quickly you'll get.

When you're working for 2-3 years no one gives a shit what school you came from as your experience, drive, and initiative is what will be the determining factor in everything you do from that point.

While I agree that drive, determination and desire is a factor, it's not enough. Having a college education is more important that not having a college education, but *where* you graduate from has an enormous influence not only on your career but your starting salary. Would you rather start at 30k a year or 65k a year? The *right* school can be difference between nice career opportunities and stellar career opportunities.

Do you honestly think that a graduate of Emporia State, Oklahoma, or KU is going to have the same job opportunities as the grad from Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA, Penn or any Ivy League school? No way!

It may not matter, one way or another for a teacher or criminal justice but for business, medicine science and law, it absolutely makes a difference. Rainman had a good that if you're going for a graduate degree, law degree or to be a doctor, most major universities are fine for your undergrad degree. But it's of utmost importance, if you chose that route, to get into a highly ranked grad school. And if you're not planning to get a grad degree, you'd better sure as hell get into the finest school possible and work your ass off while you're there.

Halfcan
06-23-2007, 08:28 PM
While I agree that drive, determination and desire is a factor, it's not enough. Having a college education is more important that not having a college education, but *where* you graduate from has an enormous influence not only on your career but your starting salary. Would you rather start at 30k a year or 65k a year? The *right* school can be difference between nice career opportunities and stellar career opportunities.

Do you honestly think that a graduate of Emporia State, Oklahoma, or KU is going to have the same job opportunities as the grad from Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA, Penn or any Ivy League school? No way!

It may not matter, one way or another for a teacher or criminal justice but for business, medicine science and law, it absolutely makes a difference. Rainman had a good that if you're going for a graduate degree, law degree or to be a doctor, most major universities are fine for your undergrad degree. But it's of utmost importance, if you chose that route, to get into a highly ranked grad school. And if you're not planning to get a grad degree, you'd better sure as hell get into the finest school possible and work your ass off while you're there.


that is some good advice right there

chagrin
06-23-2007, 09:13 PM
what is UCO? Central Oklahoma?

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
06-23-2007, 09:50 PM
Do you honestly think that a graduate of Emporia State, Oklahoma, or KU is going to have the same job opportunities as the grad from Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA, Penn or any Ivy League school? No way!



Yes.

I got the job I have and make damn near the exact same amount as the guy sitting next to me, both of us working for a Fortune 100 government contractor. He graduated from Princeton. I graduated from University of Central Missouri.

Only question they wanted to know was could we do the job.

Where you went to college might help with initially getting the job but it doesn't mean squat once you get into the job. Your yearly reviews and your desire to get ahead count a hell of a lot more.

No one gives a rats ass where you went to school, just can you do the job.

DaneMcCloud
06-23-2007, 10:06 PM
Yes.

I got the job I have and make damn near the exact same amount as the guy sitting next to me, both of us working for a Fortune 100 government contractor. He graduated from Princeton. I graduated from University of Central Missouri.

Only question they wanted to know was could we do the job.

Where you went to college might help with initially getting the job but it doesn't mean squat once you get into the job. Your yearly reviews and your desire to get ahead count a hell of a lot more.

No one gives a rats ass where you went to school, just can you do the job.

Good for you. That certainly has not been my experience in Los Angeles, whatsoever. I find it hard to believe that to be the case in NYC, either. Of course this depends on your field but it is certainly not the norm.

I know plenty of hard working people that had a hard time getting ahead, especially in Kansas City. Of course there are more factors involved than just education (ageism, for one), but I certainly didn't know any KU or KSU grads that started out of college at 75k or more for their first job. Georgetown, UCLA, Penn, & Stanford, yes.

Good luck to you.

Sam Hall
06-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Yes.

I got the job I have and make damn near the exact same amount as the guy sitting next to me, both of us working for a Fortune 100 government contractor. He graduated from Princeton. I graduated from University of Central Missouri.

Only question they wanted to know was could we do the job.

Where you went to college might help with initially getting the job but it doesn't mean squat once you get into the job. Your yearly reviews and your desire to get ahead count a hell of a lot more.

No one gives a rats ass where you went to school, just can you do the job.

I can second that. I'm attending Central Missouri for journalism and I have the same job opportunities as someone attending MU, though MU is supposedly one of the best journalism schools in the world. People in the profession know UCM has a good journalism program. We frequently beat MU for awards.

There are a lot of tough and respected Division II schools out there. Everybody who attends one, including the athletes, is there to get an education.

Here's something else I've learned: employers don't care about grades. They just want to see that you graduated from college. College is an endurance test and to graduate says that you put in the time and dedication to accomplishing something difficult. Not everyone has what it takes to graduate from college.

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 12:37 AM
I can second that. I'm attending Central Missouri for journalism and I have the same job opportunities as someone attending MU, though MU is supposedly one of the best journalism schools in the world.

Here's something else I've learned: employers don't care about grades. They just want to see that you graduated from college. College is an endurance test and to graduate says that you put in the time and dedication to accomplishing something difficult. Not everyone has what it takes to graduate from college.

Sorry, you sound young and naive. Try convincing a manager at a Fortune 500 company that's paying $100k a year that grades don't matter. Or the school that you've received your degree. And then get back to me. If you think you'll get the same job opportunities as the schools I've mentioned, you're in for a shock.

I'll say it again: Where you start your career generally determines where you'll end it. If you first job out of college is $30k, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that within 10 years of getting out of school, you'll be making 300k a year and be in upper management. If you start out at 75-100k, you'll more than likely reach that goal and maybe even sooner than 10 years.

Logical
06-24-2007, 12:43 AM
Yes.

I got the job I have and make damn near the exact same amount as the guy sitting next to me, both of us working for a Fortune 100 government contractor. He graduated from Princeton. I graduated from University of Central Missouri.

Only question they wanted to know was could we do the job.

Where you went to college might help with initially getting the job but it doesn't mean squat once you get into the job. Your yearly reviews and your desire to get ahead count a hell of a lot more.

No one gives a rats ass where you went to school, just can you do the job.

You are not very realistic. This is not to say that hard work won't pay off with results, but those prestigious schools do give people a leg up on a good start.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 12:46 AM
Sorry, you sound young and naive. Try convincing a manager at a Fortune 500 company that's paying $100k a year that grades don't matter. Or the school that you've received your degree. And then get back to me. If you think you'll get the same job opportunities as the schools I've mentioned, you're in for a shock.

I'll say it again: Where you start your career generally determines where you'll end it. If you first job out of college is $30k, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that within 10 years of getting out of school, you'll be making 300k a year and be in upper management. If you start out at 75-100k, you'll more than likely reach that goal and maybe even sooner than 10 years.

I've seen people come in and tell several of my classes that grades don't matter. The chair of my department even backed it up. Employers look for personality, skills and experience. It's the interview that matters most. I don't believe you.

Logical
06-24-2007, 12:52 AM
I've seen people come in and tell several of my classes that grades don't matter. The chair of my department even backed it up. Employers look for personality, skills and experience. It's the interview that matters most. I don't believe you.

LOL don't believe him if you don't want to, but you might want to believe me since I do select and hire people.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 12:54 AM
LOL don't believe him if you don't want to, but you might want to believe me since I do select and hire people.

Grades do matter to some employers, but definitely not all of them.

Logical
06-24-2007, 12:56 AM
Grades do matter to some employers, but definitely not all of them.

Let me give you some good advice, why chance it, get good grades and avoid the risk.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 12:57 AM
Let me give you some good advice, why chance it, get good grades and avoid the risk.

I have a 3.4 GPA, so that's not a problem.

Logical
06-24-2007, 12:59 AM
I have a 3.4 GPA, so that's not a problem.:thumb:

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 02:40 AM
Grades do matter to some employers, but definitely not all of them.

My wife graduated at age 20 from UCLA with a degree in Mathematics with a minor in Econ. She had a 3.89 grade point average and for her first job interview, she was flown from Los Angeles to NYC to meet with Lee Iacocca for his new (at the time) company. She made it to the final two candidates but the job was given to a Harvard grad instead. She is now (15 years later) an extremely successful entrepreneur and business owner.

None of these things would have happened if she had poor grades or went to Emporia State. I've stated time and again throughout this thread that obtaining a college degree is better than not having a degree, but it's absolutely ludicrous for anyone to suggest that someone with poor to decent grades from a smaller school will ever have the same opportunities as someone graduating from a prestigious school that has excellent grades.

You're only doing yourself a huge disservice to believe otherwise.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 05:43 AM
My wife graduated at age 20 from UCLA with a degree in Mathematics with a minor in Econ. She had a 3.89 grade point average and for her first job interview, she was flown from Los Angeles to NYC to meet with Lee Iacocca for his new (at the time) company. She made it to the final two candidates but the job was given to a Harvard grad instead. She is now (15 years later) an extremely successful entrepreneur and business owner.

None of these things would have happened if she had poor grades or went to Emporia State. I've stated time and again throughout this thread that obtaining a college degree is better than not having a degree, but it's absolutely ludicrous for anyone to suggest that someone with poor to decent grades from a smaller school will ever have the same opportunities as someone graduating from a prestigious school that has excellent grades.

You're only doing yourself a huge disservice to believe otherwise.

Poor grades won't be that person's only problem. We've been told that grades don't always matter to emplyers, but I don't know any dumb people at Central Missouri. Something like that isn't taken for granted. I know plenty of people at Central Missouri who could attend a more prestigious school and fit in perfectly.

Your examples don't reflect my situation. I don't regret attending Central Missouri instead of MU. Our journalism program has beaten their program for awards and that will continue. I don't understand what MU would give me that UCM can't. UCM has prepared me to be a professional and I'm doing well at my internship right now.

Journalists aren't going to get rich. What profession has wages starting at $75-100k? I'm not about the money anyway.

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 12:25 PM
Poor grades won't be that person's only problem. We've been told that grades don't always matter to emplyers, but I don't know any dumb people at Central Missouri.

I never said that anyone was "dumb" who went to a smaller school (though you're likely to find "dumb" people everywhere, regardless). What I said is that going to a prestigious school offers advantages not found at smaller schools. The main advantage that someone graduating from and Ivy League school (et al) will have a much better chance at starting out with a bigger company, higher salary, etc. The kid graduating from Washburn Law school isn't going to have the same level of pay and opportunity as the kid graduating from Harvard Law.

Jim mentioned that he hires and fires people. When I was in the corporate world, I was involved in hiring and firing over 40 employees. You're sadly mistaken if you think that I viewed the person with lesser grades straight out of college the same as the person with better grades. That's flat-out crazy. If I have two or more candidates vying for an entry-level position (usually around 35-40k per year to start) and you don't take education and grades into consideration, than I'm doing myself and my co-workers a HUGE disservice. If someone I'm looking to hire doesn't have a high grade point average, how else am I to evaluate their work ethic and knowledge? Because they tell me so? No. That indicator would be their college transcript.

I'm glad that you are working hard to keep your grade point average high but please don't buy into the idea that it doesn't matter. Ask yourself this question: If it didn't matter, why would anyone bother to grade you, period?

I'm not about the money anyway.

Ah, the freedom of youth.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 12:59 PM
I never said that anyone was "dumb" who went to a smaller school (though you're likely to find "dumb" people everywhere, regardless). What I said is that going to a prestigious school offers advantages not found at smaller schools. The main advantage that someone graduating from and Ivy League school (et al) will have a much better chance at starting out with a bigger company, higher salary, etc. The kid graduating from Washburn Law school isn't going to have the same level of pay and opportunity as the kid graduating from Harvard Law.

Jim mentioned that he hires and fires people. When I was in the corporate world, I was involved in hiring and firing over 40 employees. You're sadly mistaken if you think that I viewed the person with lesser grades straight out of college the same as the person with better grades. That's flat-out crazy. If I have two or more candidates vying for an entry-level position (usually around 35-40k per year to start) and you don't take education and grades into consideration, than I'm doing myself and my co-workers a HUGE disservice. If someone I'm looking to hire doesn't have a high grade point average, how else am I to evaluate their work ethic and knowledge? Because they tell me so? No. That indicator would be their college transcript.

I'm glad that you are working hard to keep your grade point average high but please don't buy into the idea that it doesn't matter. Ask yourself this question: If it didn't matter, why would anyone bother to grade you, period?



Ah, the freedom of youth.

I wouldn't be in journalism if I wanted to get rich. I don't care about the Ivy League or the corporate world because those entities don't reflect my situation. The average journalist only needs a bachelor's. One thing nobody has mentioned is that who you know is important.

I never said that people with poor grades should get jobs over people with high grades. I'd ignore the people who have below a 3.0. Let's say you were interviewing two candidates, one had a 3.2 GPA and the other had a 3.8. The candidate with a 3.8 went to a Division I school and the other candidate went to a Division II school. The candidate with a 3.2 had a better resume, more than enough relevant experience and blew you away during the interview. The candidate with a 3.8 just took classes in college, doesn't have relevant experience and you didn't like his/her interview. Wouldn't you hire the person that had a 3.2?

Grades definitely aren't the most important factor.

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 01:03 PM
Grades definitely aren't the most important factor.

No offense because you're young, but get back to us after 20 years in the workforce. You may feel differently if your ass is ever on the line.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 01:07 PM
No offense because you're young, but get back to us after 20 years in the workforce. You may feel differently if your ass is ever on the line.

Skills, experience and personality are more important. I wouldn't hire somebody who had high grades but didn't fit into my company in terms of skill, experience and personality. I wouldn't fire somebody based on their grades, either.

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 01:22 PM
Skills, experience and personality are more important. I wouldn't hire somebody who had high grades but didn't fit into my company in terms of skill, experience and personality. I wouldn't fire somebody based on their grades, either.

Sam, I'm done with this conversation. Arguing this topic with a kid who has NO experience hiring or firing in corporate America is pretty much like me arguing with the couple that want to start their own business but don't know what to do next. I have experience and success in both realms, they do not. You have no experience running a department, answering to higher execs and dealing with a bottom line. If you don't think that all of that factors into your decision making process when hiring and firing, you're a fool.

For the last time, if I'm interviewing a person for an entry level job that has no experience in the workforce, all I have to go on is their schooling and transcripts. If I'm down to the final two candidates and one has a degree from Penn and the other has a degree from Northwest Louisiana, I'm picking the person from Penn. Why? Ivy League school, stricter entrance guidelines and tougher curriculum.

The people I hire to work for me are a reflection of me - if they slack off, don't live up to standards, etc., it's my ass on line. Either I have to cover their ass, or one of my other people have to cover my ass. This isn't a charity business and I'm not going to cut someone slack because I might "like" them a little better, though their education is clearly inferior to the other candidate. At the end of the day, it all reflects on ME and my opportunities. And that ALWAYS has to be taken in consideration.

Firing employees in today's corporate world is a long and tedious process. You can't just call someone in and say "you're fired". You have to give warnings, file written reports and so on. There's too much liability involved to just fire someone without that process. It becomes even more difficult if you're firing a non-white or non-male. So the best advice I can give is to get it right from the onset. And anyone will tell you to go with the person that has a "better" education and better grades. It would be irresponsible to think or do otherwise.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 01:39 PM
And I'm done with you too. I'm sick and tired of you telling me I'm wrong because I'm young. Stop acting like you're Bill Gates. Not everybody believes in your philosophy.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 01:42 PM
For the last time, if I'm interviewing a person for an entry level job that has no experience in the workforce, all I have to go on is their schooling and transcripts. If I'm down to the final two candidates and one has a degree from Penn and the other has a degree from Northwest Louisiana, I'm picking the person from Penn. Why? Ivy League school, stricter entrance guidelines and tougher curriculum.

I just said that experience is one of the most important factors.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 01:44 PM
Firing employees in today's corporate world is a long and tedious process. You can't just call someone in and say "you're fired". You have to give warnings, file written reports and so on. There's too much liability involved to just fire someone without that process. It becomes even more difficult if you're firing a non-white or non-male.

You're not telling me anything I don't know.

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 02:02 PM
And I'm done with you too. I'm sick and tired of you telling me I'm wrong because I'm young. Stop acting like you're Bill Gates. Not everybody believes in your philosophy.

You are young and have no experience hiring and firing. No one that's successfully running a business is going to hire a lesser qualified applicant over a more qualified applicant because they like the lesser qualified applicant's personality a little better during the interviewing process.

Employer: Hmm, I see here that you have a degree from CMSU and that you earned a 2.2 GPA in Finance. Can you tell my where CMSU is located and why is it that your GPA is so low?

Employer Employee: Well, it's in the middle of Missouri. And my professor told me that GPA and grades don't matter!

Employer: They told you WHAT? How much did you pay for this so-called "Education"?

I just said that experience is one of the most important factors.

How can someone have "experience" when it's an entry-level position, straight out of college? Working at a restaurant while going to college is nice but that doesn't make you better suited in the ANY field than another applicant that has a significantly better college education and GPA.

You're not telling me anything I don't know.

Then you're not comprehending my posts.

Good luck in your career.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 02:09 PM
You are young and have no experience hiring and firing. No one that's successfully running a business is going to hire a lesser qualified applicant over a more qualified applicant because they like the lesser qualified applicant's personality a little better during the interviewing process.

Employer: Hmm, I see here that you have a degree from CMSU and that you earned a 2.2 GPA in Finance. Can you tell my where CMSU is located and why is it that your GPA is so low?

Employer Employee: Well, it's in the middle of Missouri. And my professor told me that GPA and grades don't matter!

Employer: They told you WHAT? How much did you pay for this so-called "Education"?



How can someone have "experience" when it's an entry-level position, straight out of college? Working at a restaurant while going to college is nice but that doesn't make you better suited in the ANY field than another applicant that has a significantly better college education and GPA.



Then you're not comprehending my posts.

Good luck in your career.

1. Ever heard of internships?

2. They never said that grades don't matter. They only said that grades aren't the only thing employers look for. They're definitely not encouraging us to get bad grades and everybody knows it. You took this way too far. I guess I'll never have a successful career because I attend the University of Central Missouri
:rolleyes:

DaneMcCloud
06-24-2007, 02:16 PM
1. Ever heard of internships?

2. They never said that grades don't matter. They only said that grades aren't the only thing employers look for. They're definitely not encouraging us to get bad grades and everybody knows it. You took this way to far. I guess I'll never have a successful career because I attend the University of Central Missouri
:rolleyes:

Sam, I never said you couldn't have a successful career because of your school. I'm telling you that the school and your grades are a very, very important factor and I've given you plenty of examples of why.

An individual's success can only be assessed by that individual. There are some people that are happy making $40k a year and some people unhappy making $40k a year. There are some people happy making $100k a year and some people unhappy making $100k a year. There are some people happy making $250k a year and some people unhappy making $250k a year and on and on. It all depends on your goals.

Again, good luck in your career.

Dunit35
06-24-2007, 10:49 PM
So, is everyone saying I should just give up because of my 2.5 gpa? It was a 2.29 before last fall.

Sam Hall
06-24-2007, 10:54 PM
So, is everyone saying I should just give up because of my 2.5 gpa? It was a 2.29 before last fall.

It wasn't me :shake:

Smed1065
06-24-2007, 10:56 PM
Just give up thinking, for now.............

Dunit35
06-24-2007, 11:02 PM
I already know what I'm going to do about this subject. I'm going to apply to OSUOKC on Tuesday...hopefully anyways...

so yeah, I'm done thinking about it.

Jenson71
06-24-2007, 11:03 PM
Here's a question: I go to the University of Northern Iowa, which isn't as high class/prestige as U of Iowa or Iowa State.

Do I still have a chance to go to a top 15 law or graduate school? I get good grades and am an Eagle Scout. :)

cdcox
06-24-2007, 11:37 PM
I generally agree with Dane, in that people who go to better schools and get better grades get much more numerous and better opportunities. However, all young people will get many, many opportunities. It's more important to take advantage of the chances you get once you get them. A few examples:

A cousin of mine was an average business student at a big 12 school. She worked for a unglamorous company in Warrensburg for a few years after college. She did well there went to grad school part-time (not a famous grad school at all) but still managed to land a job with a company every one in the country has heard of. Within 5 years she was the comptroller for the company.

I know of a person in my field who went to another big 12 school. He carried a 2.5 GPA as an undergrad. His last semester, he took a grad course and did well in it. The prof who taught that course gave him a good recommendation and he got into a very good grad program. He didn't really get along with his grad advisor, but made a big impression with the originality of thought in his publications. He now teaches at one of the top engineering schools in the country.

Every year my department recognizes an alumni that has been particularly successful in their profession. Typically, these folks own their own company or are president or vice-president of a company. These folks usually make a few remarks after receiving the award. About as often as not, they will admit to not being a particularly strong student.

Most young people have will get dozens of opportunities along the way. However, as the years go by, you get fewer and fewer chances. The key is to recognize opportunites and make the most of them.

People who go to good schools and get good grades get more of those opportunities, no doubt. However, I think the real reason that they are more successful is that they have learned to take advantage of those opportunities early in life (how do you think they got into a good school to begin with?).

DeezNutz
06-24-2007, 11:40 PM
Here's a question: I go to the University of Northern Iowa, which isn't as high class/prestige as U of Iowa or Iowa State.

Do I still have a chance to go to a top 15 law or graduate school? I get good grades and am an Eagle Scout. :)

Sorry. You're going to be capped at a 35k per year job. No soup for you. J/K

On another note, I agree with the thought process behind your argument McCloud, but I'm intrigued with the arbitrary list of schools you mentioned. Most were accurate, but Georgetown? This institution doesn't have any more cache of name than KU, MU, and a host of others.

Jenson71
06-24-2007, 11:59 PM
Sorry. You're going to be capped at a 35k per year job. No soup for you. J/K

On another note, I agree with the thought process behind your argument McCloud, but I'm intrigued with the arbitrary list of schools you mentioned. Most were accurate, but Georgetown? This institution doesn't have any more cache of name than KU, MU, and a host of others.

Georgetown is a pretty big deal, especially in law and political sciences.

58-4ever
06-25-2007, 12:25 AM
OSU-OKC is a community college, it's not a whole lot cheaper than UCO. However, if you earn an associates degree, all your credits will transfer. You don't want them cherry picking the classes that transfer.

StcChief
06-25-2007, 08:29 AM
Ensure your Jr. Co credits transfer. Sounds like a cheaper approach, and GF is there.

Your decision is made.

Saulbadguy
06-25-2007, 08:45 AM
Don't either of them offer online courses? There is a JUCO nearby here that you can get your entire associates degree online - they mail you the books and everything.