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View Full Version : Immigration Bill: Yey or Ney


Wilson
06-26-2007, 06:50 PM
Simple question although I'd be interested in hearing why anyone would support this bill.

Edit: was supposed to be a poll

ChiefaRoo
06-26-2007, 07:00 PM
NEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

ClevelandBronco
06-26-2007, 07:04 PM
Not this one.

BucEyedPea
06-26-2007, 07:07 PM
The immigration reform bill has only been renamed and numbered: S. 1639.

The bill still carries the same amnesty provisions and guestworker program that caused S. 1348 to fail in the first place.

Do they think we're all that stupid?

Adept Havelock
06-26-2007, 07:21 PM
:)

Dave Lane
06-27-2007, 11:21 AM
I'm fine with it.

Dave

Cochise
06-27-2007, 11:34 AM
largest attack on America since 9/11

Radar Chief
06-27-2007, 11:36 AM
The immigration reform bill has only been renamed and numbered: S. 1639.

The bill still carries the same amnesty provisions and guestworker program that caused S. 1348 to fail in the first place.

Do they think we're all that stupid?

Yes, "they" do.

Fishpicker
06-27-2007, 12:02 PM
Hell Ney! again.

Cochise
06-27-2007, 03:46 PM
Maybe the scariest part of the bill is the "family unit" part of it. If there really are 20 million illegals here are made legal overnight, we could end up with our population leaping by 50 million people or more almost overnight.

CHIEF4EVER
06-27-2007, 03:48 PM
Ummmmmmmmm......NAY

Brock
06-27-2007, 03:53 PM
Anything less than immediate deportation is a nay.

Fishpicker
06-27-2007, 03:56 PM
Alabama: Sessions (R-AL), Nay Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Alaska: Murkowski (R-AK), Yea Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Arizona: Kyl (R-AZ), Yea McCain (R-AZ), Yea
Arkansas: Lincoln (D-AR), Yea Pryor (D-AR), Yea
California: Boxer (D-CA), Yea Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Colorado: Allard (R-CO), Nay Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT), Yea Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Delaware: Biden (D-DE), Yea Carper (D-DE), Yea
Florida: Martinez (R-FL), Yea Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Georgia: Chambliss (R-GA), Nay Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI), Yea Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Idaho: Craig (R-ID), Yea Crapo (R-ID), Nay
Illinois: Durbin (D-IL), Yea Obama (D-IL), Yea
Indiana: Bayh (D-IN), Nay Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Iowa: Grassley (R-IA), Nay Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Kansas: Brownback (R-KS), Yea Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Kentucky: Bunning (R-KY), Nay McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Louisiana: Landrieu (D-LA), Nay Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Maine: Collins (R-ME), Yea Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Maryland: Cardin (D-MD), Yea Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA), Yea Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Yea Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Minnesota: Coleman (R-MN), Yea Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Mississippi: Cochran (R-MS), Nay Lott (R-MS), Yea
Missouri: Bond (R-MO), Yea McCaskill (D-MO), Nay
Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Nay Tester (D-MT), Nay
Nebraska: Hagel (R-NE), Yea Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nevada: Ensign (R-NV), Yea Reid (D-NV), Yea
New Hampshire: Gregg (R-NH), Yea Sununu (R-NH), Nay
New Jersey: Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM), Yea Domenici (R-NM), Yea
New York: Clinton (D-NY), Yea Schumer (D-NY), Yea
North Carolina: Burr (R-NC), Yea Dole (R-NC), Nay
North Dakota: Conrad (D-ND), Yea Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Ohio: Brown (D-OH), Yea Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Oklahoma: Coburn (R-OK), Nay Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Oregon: Smith (R-OR), Nay Wyden (D-OR), Yea
Pennsylvania: Casey (D-PA), Yea Specter (R-PA), Yea
Rhode Island: Reed (D-RI), Yea Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
South Carolina: DeMint (R-SC), Nay Graham (R-SC), Yea
South Dakota: Johnson (D-SD), Not Voting Thune (R-SD), Nay
Tennessee: Alexander (R-TN), Nay Corker (R-TN), Nay
Texas: Cornyn (R-TX), Nay Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Utah: Bennett (R-UT), Yea Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Vermont: Leahy (D-VT), Yea Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Virginia: Warner (R-VA), Yea Webb (D-VA), Yea
Washington: Cantwell (D-WA), Yea Murray (D-WA), Yea
West Virginia: Byrd (D-WV), Nay Rockefeller (D-WV), Nay
Wisconsin: Feingold (D-WI), Yea Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Wyoming: Barrasso (R-WY), Nay Enzi (R-WY), Nay

from www.senate.gov (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00228)

Chief Faithful
06-27-2007, 03:56 PM
As the son of a legal immigrant I say: NEY!

CHIEF4EVER
06-27-2007, 03:58 PM
You know what's insane about this bill? The people we elected to 'be our voice' are basically whipping out their schlongs and slapping us across the chops with them. It is almost like our Senators have rebelled against the mandate of the masses (no Monty Python quotes please) and decided they are more enlightened than we are and thus can pass legislation against our will. Do I blame them? NO. I BLAME US. WE AREN'T VOCAL ENOUGH. We need to pay closer attention to WTF is going on in Washington DC and make ourselves heard.

BucEyedPea
06-27-2007, 04:14 PM
Florida: Martinez (R-FL), Yea Nelson (D-FL), Yea

pissants :banghead: :cuss:

CHIEF4EVER
06-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Missouri: Bond (R-MO), Yea McCaskill (D-MO), Nay

Wow, just wow. Buh bye Bond.

Cochise
06-27-2007, 04:25 PM
I sent Bond an email telling him I was not voting for him again if he supported the bill. I also mailed the candidates for president who were on board with it, and said that was the reason there was no possibility I would support them.

You know what's insane about this bill? The people we elected to 'be our voice' are basically whipping out their schlongs and slapping us across the chops with them. It is almost like our Senators have rebelled against the mandate of the masses (no Monty Python quotes please) and decided they are more enlightened than we are and thus can pass legislation against our will.

Yeah, that's what they count on. Politicians tell us how much they care around election time, and how much they need our support, but then they get into Congress and pull stuff like this, as if support is irrelevant.

BucEyedPea
06-27-2007, 04:29 PM
I hear this is gonna have a tougher time in the House, at least per what Laura Ingram claims. Still, I'm keepin' the pressure on. Gonna call my rep tommorrow and get an answer. If he's yay....I may just run against him.

CHIEF4EVER
06-27-2007, 04:34 PM
I sent Bond an email telling him I was not voting for him again if he supported the bill. I also mailed the candidates for president who were on board with it, and said that was the reason there was no possibility I would support them.

Good job. Mr. Bond will be getting my termination Email today. I hope he has a job skill other than 'Senator'.



Yeah, that's what they count on. Politicians tell us how much they care around election time, and how much they need our support, but then they get into Congress and pull stuff like this, as if support is irrelevant.

The only way we are going to take back the control of our country is if we make it plain that WE are the sovreigns. THE PEOPLE. Not the suits elected to speak for us.

Cochise
06-27-2007, 04:40 PM
Anyone have the House list?

BucEyedPea
06-27-2007, 04:48 PM
I don't think it's gone to the House yet Cochise.

CHIEF4EVER
06-27-2007, 04:54 PM
I sent Bond an email telling him I was not voting for him again if he supported the bill. I also mailed the candidates for president who were on board with it, and said that was the reason there was no possibility I would support them.

This was my email to Mr. Bond:



Mr Bond, I have followed the cloture vote very closely concerning the "Comprehensive Immigration Bill" and am very distressed by your vote. Your vote represents the opposite of the will of the people you are representing and thus I can no longer vote for you because you persist in ignoring the will of those who elected you. The will of the people of Missouri is first and foremost in importance. The vast majority of the people of Missouri disagree with your vote. This indicates to me an unwillingness to comply with the mandate of the people of Missouri. For this reason I can no longer see any way that I can give you my vote and I will encourage those in my district, in every way possible, to vote against you.

Sincerely, Robert *******

Cochise
06-27-2007, 04:58 PM
I don't think it's gone to the House yet Cochise.

Yeah, I mean, there could be a list of related votes someplace, regarding the house version or on the one-sentence resolution from Monday, couldn't there?

Cochise
06-27-2007, 04:59 PM
I agree with your email, CHIEF4EVER. I'm not going to run over to the Democratic side of the ticket, but if he doesn't reverse course I'll be voting for libertarian_candidate_01 instead of Bond...

Cochise
06-27-2007, 05:06 PM
We should also note that there are different kinds of cloture, and voting to stop debate on amendments shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as support of the bill, it's how they vote in the end that will matter. So the way I worded mine to Bond was that if he votes for the finalized bill I won't vote for him again.

Only 7 Republicans in the Senate voted for it, if the abc radio news blurb I heard was right or if I heard it right just a few minutes ago. And yet the democrats have succeeded in getting this painted as a Republican bill. :spock:

The Democrats aren't dummies, they know what this bill would do to the Republican party's support from their base, and that's why they have tried to frame the situation the way they have.

BucEyedPea
06-27-2007, 05:18 PM
We should also note that there are different kinds of cloture, and voting to stop debate on amendments shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as support of the bill, it's how they vote in the end that will matter. So the way I worded mine to Bond was that if he votes for the finalized bill I won't vote for him again.

Only 7 Republicans in the Senate voted for it, if the abc radio news blurb I heard was right or if I heard it right just a few minutes ago. And yet the democrats have succeeded in getting this painted as a Republican bill. :spock:

The Democrats aren't dummies, they know what this bill would do to the Republican party's support from their base, and that's why they have tried to frame the situation the way they have.
WoW just Wow!

Adept Havelock
06-27-2007, 05:53 PM
The Democrats aren't dummies, they know what this bill would do to the Republican party's support from their base, and that's why they have tried to frame the situation the way they have.

Yep, IMO it's akin to the '04 "Gay Marriage" dynamic, just running the other way. The difference to me is that Illegal Immigration actually matters.

And neither party is willing to deal with it. :banghead:

Wilson
06-28-2007, 10:40 AM
NEY- YEAH!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-28-immigration-bill_N.htm

BucEyedPea
06-28-2007, 10:44 AM
NEY- YEAH!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-28-immigration-bill_N.htm

From the link
The bill's supporters fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to limit debate and clear the way for final passage of the legislation, which critics assailed as offering amnesty to illegal immigrants. The vote was 46 to 53 in favor of limiting the debate.

Senators in both parties said the issue is so volatile that Congress is highly unlikely to revisit it this fall or next year, when the presidential election will increasingly dominate American politics.


14 votes short....seems like there's still a lot of traitors in there.

BucEyedPea
06-28-2007, 10:52 AM
From same link:
"We have been in contact with members of Congress over the past couple of days and the president has made it clear that this is important to him," White House spokesman Tony Snow said before the vote.

Important to "him"...like saying FU to the rest of us. What an ass.

Cochise
06-28-2007, 11:00 AM
There was no reason for them to bring this up again, it was dead the last time, and it was only going to get worse.

To me this whole thing appeared to have been a bunch of the moderate republicans (republicans in name only) and the white house being snookered by reid, kennedy, pelosi et al., into attacking their base with a chainsaw.

And the white house, what were they thinking on this? At a time when the president's popularity is low, to choose maybe the one thing that would most infuriate what supporters remained?

I generally can't give Democrats credit for being good strategists without chuckling, at least for the past 10 years or so, but this was either a tactical masterstroke or they dunked over a bunch of midgets. I can't decide which.

dirk digler
06-28-2007, 11:03 AM
Yes!! The American people have spoken and said FU to the President and his fellow traitors.

Fishpicker
06-28-2007, 11:59 AM
blocked (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CONGRESS_IMMIGRATION?SITE=DEWIL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants, likely postponing major action on immigration until after the 2008 elections.

Responding to a stinging political setback, President Bush sounded resigned to defeat.

"Legal immigration is one of the top concerns of the American people, and Congress' failure to act on it is a disappointment," Bush said after an appearance in Newport, R.I.. "The American people understand the status quo is unacceptable when it comes to our immigration laws. A lot of us worked hard to see if we couldn't find common ground. It didn't work."

Cochise
06-28-2007, 12:09 PM
"The American people understand the status quo is unacceptable when it comes to our immigration laws. A lot of us worked hard to see if we couldn't find common ground. It didn't work."

The status quo was better than this plan.

Maybe the Republicans will make the immigration issue their main issue in 2008. It's a huge winner all across the board, they are on the right side of the issue. Reid, Kennedy, Pelosi et all supported this bill, which was a huge loser no matter who you talked to. But the Republican leadership apart from the President should be largely insulated and positioned to bring up "the real immigration plan" during the cycle and maybe make some real progress from it.

That could be a path to victory. Especially if we get a candidate who's committed to making it their objective.

Hmm.

Brock
06-28-2007, 01:50 PM
"The American people understand the status quo is unacceptable when it comes to our immigration laws."

Uh, yeah, you mean we actually expect you to enforce them? It's all our fault.

go bowe
06-28-2007, 02:29 PM
I agree with your email, CHIEF4EVER. I'm not going to run over to the Democratic side of the ticket, but if he doesn't reverse course I'll be voting for libertarian_candidate_01 instead of Bond...whatever happened to "stay the course"?

reverse course (if that means begining to bring troops home) would be a welcome change...

yeah, reverse course president cheney, you debil-man you (no patteeu, not you)...

and do it now...

go bowe
06-28-2007, 02:35 PM
There was no reason for them to bring this up again, it was dead the last time, and it was only going to get worse.

To me this whole thing appeared to have been a bunch of the moderate republicans (republicans in name only) and the white house being snookered by reid, kennedy, pelosi et al., into attacking their base with a chainsaw.

And the white house, what were they thinking on this? At a time when the president's popularity is low, to choose maybe the one thing that would most infuriate what supporters remained?

I generally can't give Democrats credit for being good strategists without chuckling, at least for the past 10 years or so, but this was either a tactical masterstroke or they dunked over a bunch of midgets. I can't decide which.tactical masterstroke, midgets or pure blind luck?

i think all 3 factors were at work in this episode of the immigration bill saga...

go bowe
06-28-2007, 02:37 PM
The status quo was better than this plan.

Maybe the Republicans will make the immigration issue their main issue in 2008. It's a huge winner all across the board, they are on the right side of the issue. Reid, Kennedy, Pelosi et all supported this bill, which was a huge loser no matter who you talked to. But the Republican leadership apart from the President should be largely insulated and positioned to bring up "the real immigration plan" during the cycle and maybe make some real progress from it.

That could be a path to victory. Especially if we get a candidate who's committed to making it their objective.

Hmm.we have that candidate already...

bill richardson is that man, imo...

caffeinated_virus
06-28-2007, 02:41 PM
HELL NEY!

CHIEF4EVER
06-29-2007, 03:57 PM
Listening to Ted Kennedy and Dubya each make their statements on the radio almost had me in a fit of laughter. They both sounded like they were about to cry. LMAO


Oh, BTW Mr. President and Senator Drunkass, maybe we wouldn't have a 'status quo' on this issue if you clowns carried out your constitutional responsibilities with even a shred of competence and sense of urgency.

What arrogance! First, they try to ramrod a lousy ass bill through that 85% of Americans absolutely detest, then they try to point the finger at THE EFFING PEOPLE as if we are less enlightened than the 'high and mighty ones' are and don't know what is best for us. And they wonder why the American people are so pissed off at Congress? Next election, it's time to get rid of all the assclowns who think they can do whatever they want without listening to the people WHO ARE THE SOVREIGNS OF THIS NATION.

ChiefaRoo
06-29-2007, 04:07 PM
Listening to Ted Kennedy and Dubya each make their statements on the radio almost had me in a fit of laughter. They both sounded like they were about to cry. LMAO


Oh, BTW Mr. President and Senator Drunkass, maybe we wouldn't have a 'status quo' on this issue if you clowns carried out your constitutional responsibilities with even a shred of competence and sense of urgency.

What arrogance! First, they try to ramrod a lousy ass bill through that 85% of Americans absolutely detest, then they try to point the finger at THE EFFING PEOPLE as if we are less enlightened than the 'high and mighty ones' are and don't know what is best for us. And they wonder why the American people are so pissed off at Congress? Next election, it's time to get rid of all the assclowns who think they can do whatever they want without listening to the people WHO ARE THE SOVREIGNS OF THIS NATION.


I'm ready for the 2008 elections. I want every Democrat who doesn't want to fight the way against terror out and I want every Republican who is for open borders and runaway spending voted out. The Dem's are wimps and can't be trusted to protect the country and the Republicans are spineless jellyfish who just want to hold on to power even if it means selling out the soverignty of the country and authorizing huge deficit spending. Throw them all out!!

mlyonsd
06-29-2007, 07:16 PM
My only thought on the immigration bill is like SS, nothing gets passed and here we sit while the problem just grows.

A fence is the stupidest F'ing idea ever devised IMO.

ChiefaRoo
06-29-2007, 08:39 PM
My only thought on the immigration bill is like SS, nothing gets passed and here we sit while the problem just grows.

A fence is the stupidest F'ing idea ever devised IMO.

The fence is only one element and it works everywhere it's tried.... dummy.

Logical
06-29-2007, 08:43 PM
The fence is only one element and it works everywhere it's tried.... dummy.

Except on our own border, and you are the dummy, so leave the labels at home.

ChiefaRoo
06-29-2007, 08:51 PM
Except on our own border, and you are the dummy, so leave the labels at home.


We don't have a fence. We've got a patchwork of old rusted tin. The Israelis have a fence and it works and so would ours.

Logical I'm under the weather tonight and just can't tolerate to much of your stupid shite right now. Wise up.

Logical
06-29-2007, 09:02 PM
We don't have a fence. We've got a patchwork of old rusted tin. The Israelis have a fence and it works and so would ours.

Logical I'm under the weather tonight and just can't tolerate to much of your stupid shite right now. Wise up.
You are just being idiotic, everywhere we have fence they build tunnels and I am talking tunnels the size of roads and they were more than 40 feet under the fence. Yeah a fence is going to work?:rolleyes:

Sorry you are sick.

ChiefaRoo
06-29-2007, 09:09 PM
You are just being idiotic, everywhere we have fence they build tunnels and I am talking tunnels the size of roads and they were more than 40 feet under the fence. Yeah a fence is going to work?:rolleyes:

Sorry you are sick.


Building tunnels isn't so easy in the desert braniac. Ever heard of ground sensors? Now bring me some soup.

Logical
06-29-2007, 10:52 PM
Building tunnels isn't so easy in the desert braniac. Ever heard of ground sensors? Now bring me some soup.You are the brainiac what do you think the San Diego Tijuana border is like. It is desert.

ChiefaRoo
06-29-2007, 10:58 PM
You are the brainiac what do you think the San Diego Tijuana border is like. It is desert.

It's also populated on each side with ready access to building materials, food and water and a place to poke through on the other side that won't easily be spotted (as in going down and coming up in an existing building). Building a tunnel in the middle of nowhere would be extremely hard to do without being noticed. Sometimes I feel I have to teach you everything Log.

Logical
06-29-2007, 11:28 PM
It's also populated on each side with ready access to building materials, food and water and a place to poke through on the other side that won't easily be spotted (as in going down and coming up in an existing building). Building a tunnel in the middle of nowhere would be extremely hard to do without being noticed. Sometimes I feel I have to teach you everything Log.
I removed the map picture to fix the thread.http://www.rnha.org/ImmigrationReformNow/images/us-mexico-border.jpg


Yes I am brilliant, see all those red dots those are all big border Cities where tunnels are easy. Also almost a fourth of the border is mountainous regions where spotting the activity won't be so easy.

CHIEF4EVER
06-30-2007, 06:02 AM
Sorry Jim, but I have to disagree with you. We have the technology to make a border fortification work. It isn't just a 4 strand barbed wire fence with a No Trespassing sign on it like you would find on a rerun of Green Acres. It is a multi layered system with sensors and UAV support in the surrounding area along with an effective number of BP agents. Thankfully, 85% of America disagrees with your take and wants the border secured and existing laws enforced.

Cochise
06-30-2007, 07:53 AM
You are just being idiotic, everywhere we have fence they build tunnels and I am talking tunnels the size of roads and they were more than 40 feet under the fence. Yeah a fence is going to work?:rolleyes:

Sorry you are sick.

You can't just build something like that quickly and easily, without heavy equipment, or just anywhere, or that isn't going to be noticed for a long period of time.

ChiefaRoo
06-30-2007, 04:34 PM
The terrain would actually work to our advantage. Some places would simply need vehicle barriers as a human being cannot walk through that kind of terrain and heat. Have you guys spent time driving through Northern Arizona (Monument Valley) and Southern Utah. If you were out there even with all the water you could carry you'd be dead very quickly. Miles and miles of desolation.

Logical
06-30-2007, 05:08 PM
Sorry Jim, but I have to disagree with you. We have the technology to make a border fortification work. It isn't just a 4 strand barbed wire fence with a No Trespassing sign on it like you would find on a rerun of Green Acres. It is a multi layered system with sensors and UAV support in the surrounding area along with an effective number of BP agents. Thankfully, 85% of America disagrees with your take and wants the border secured and existing laws enforced.

I just know the fence is a stupid idea. I like your use of UAVs and sensors. I think the high tech methods will be far more effective than a fence and that a 2000 mile fence is impossible to ever realistically construct.

ClevelandBronco
06-30-2007, 05:09 PM
I just know the fence is a stupid idea. I like your use of UAVs and sensors. I think the high tech methods will be far more effective than a fence and that a 2000 mile fence is impossible to ever realistically construct.

Just use the people who'll do the jobs Americans won't do.

Logical
06-30-2007, 05:09 PM
The terrain would actually work to our advantage. Some places would simply need vehicle barriers as a human being cannot walk through that kind of terrain and heat. Have you guys spent time driving through Northern Arizona (Monument Valley) and Southern Utah. If you were out there even with all the water you could carry you'd be dead very quickly. Miles and miles of desolation.

Then why waste money on a fence?

ChiefaRoo
06-30-2007, 05:25 PM
Then why waste money on a fence?

sigh. I'm at a loss.

Ok, some places are desert, some are populated, some are desert with unpassable (by foot) terrain. It's a varied landscape that requires multiple solutions all which fall under the heading of "Fence"

Logical
06-30-2007, 05:48 PM
sigh. I'm at a loss.

Ok, some places are desert, some are populated, some are desert with unpassable (by foot) terrain. It's a varied landscape that requires multiple solutions all which fall under the heading of "Fence"

I am simply pointing out the obvious if the terrain is unpassable don't build any barriers, let the terrain prevent illegals. Use high tech solutions elsewhere and avoid the stupid idea of a literal fence altogether.

go bowe
06-30-2007, 08:27 PM
You can't just build something like that quickly and easily, without heavy equipment, or just anywhere, or that isn't going to be noticed for a long period of time.didn't we uncover a tunnel under the border not so long ago?

big enough to stand up in with electric lights and all...

the news report showed a few bales of pot left behind in the tunnel...

as far as heavy euipment, mexican drug taffickers don't need it...

instead of heavy equipment, they use good old fashioned manual labor to get the job done...

maby not quickly or easily but they get it done...

Logical
06-30-2007, 09:04 PM
didn't we uncover a tunnel under the border not so long ago?

big enough to stand up in with electric lights and all...

the news report showed a few bales of pot left behind in the tunnel...

as far as heavy euipment, mexican drug taffickers don't need it...

instead of heavy equipment, they use good old fashioned manual labor to get the job done...

maby not quickly or easily but they get it done...

Actually we found four of those tunnels.