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AustinChief
06-28-2007, 04:30 PM
What is your PRIMARY concern with immigration (legal or illegal)? Is it mostly about keeping track of who enters the country? (making sure no bad guys get in) Or is it about keeping out foreigners who will use US resources and take domestic jobs?

KC Dan
06-28-2007, 04:37 PM
What is your PRIMARY concern with immigration (legal or illegal)? Is it mostly about keeping track of who enters the country? (making sure no bad guys get in) Or is it about keeping out foreigners who will use US resources and take domestic jobs?
#1 - hands down, we can work on eliminating the people in #2.

dirk digler
06-28-2007, 04:42 PM
I voted for other. We need to stop the flow of illegals now and we IMHO we need the military force to do it.

If we stop the flow of illegals now we will undoubtedly catch some bad guys and then when can worry about the rest later.

AustinChief
06-28-2007, 04:53 PM
Ok, here is my take. The US border is almost completely porous in its current state. I sincerely believe that most (if not all) people who REALLY want to come here will get in somehow. SO, at the moment we have the WORST of both worlds. IF we completely shut down the border (fences, electronic monitering, etc) AND we allow entrance to damn near ANYONE who wants to sign on the dotted line. I think we solve issue number one completely while leaving issue number two in the same state it is now.

Any thoughts?

dirk digler
06-28-2007, 05:00 PM
Ok, here is my take. The US border is almost completely porous in its current state. I sincerely believe that most (if not all) people who REALLY want to come here will get in somehow. SO, at the moment we have the WORST of both worlds. IF we completely shut down the border (fences, electronic monitering, etc) AND we allow entrance to damn near ANYONE who wants to sign on the dotted line. I think we solve issue number one completely while leaving issue number two in the same state it is now.

Any thoughts?

So are you advocating stopping legal immigration as well?

In my plan I posted a while ago I proposed putting the military on the border and then stop all legal immigration for 5 years so we can get a better grasp on who is here.

KC Dan
06-28-2007, 05:02 PM
Ok, here is my take. The US border is almost completely porous in its current state. I sincerely believe that most (if not all) people who REALLY want to come here will get in somehow. SO, at the moment we have the WORST of both worlds. IF we completely shut down the border (fences, electronic monitering, etc) AND we allow entrance to damn near ANYONE who wants to sign on the dotted line. I think we solve issue number one completely while leaving issue number two in the same state it is now.

Any thoughts?
Agreed, but you must start somewhere and starting with securing the border first makes sense. Then and only then can you change laws to address those already here and go after employers hiring illegals. Throwing this all together in one bill and enabling instant Z-visa status is ignoramous. The flow would continue (probably increase) as the borders WOULD NOT be secured. Hell, a bill has already passed to increase border agents, increase electronic surveillance, and build fence/wall/whatever and the progress on fulfilling the purpose of that law is pitiful. The bottom line is big business, immigrant rights groups and minorities already here are pushing this all-in-one plan because they know it won't work just like 1986. How any logically thinking adult can actually believe otherwise is beyond me.

AustinChief
06-28-2007, 05:03 PM
So are you advocating stopping legal immigration as well?

In my plan I posted a while ago I proposed putting the military on the border and then stop all legal immigration for 5 years so we can get a better grasp on who is here.

No, I'm just the opposite. If you make it EXTREMELY easy to become a citizen, there will be no reason for people to hide. The regular worker Juan will just sign up, get a background check and done.

The vast illegal networks will dry up, leaving the undesirables (a SMALL SMALL %) with fewer resources to avoid detection.

KC Dan
06-28-2007, 05:07 PM
No, I'm just the opposite. If you make it EXTREMELY easy to become a citizen, there will be no reason for people to hide. The regular worker Juan will just sign up, get a background check and done.

The vast illegal networks will dry up, leaving the undesirables (a SMALL SMALL %) with fewer resources to avoid detection.
You know, I think I agree with this. So why are the opposite beliefs out there adn held so strongly onto? I have heard a lot lately that there are many who believe that the Democratic party see this as an opportunity to gain a clear majority of voters nationwide, making the Republicans irrelevant. I'm not sure that that is their hope in refraining from securing the border first. But, then what is their real motivation?

Taco John
06-28-2007, 06:01 PM
I'm not sure that that is their hope in refraining from securing the border first. But, then what is their real motivation?



Why does there have to be some sort of over-arching diabolical plan? Why can't their motivation be people-centric?

patteeu
06-29-2007, 04:56 PM
I'm not worried about foreigners taking jobs at all so as between the two options, I'd vote for number 1. My problems with your idea, AustinChief, is that allowing unlimited free immigration are twofold:

1) We'd have a huge influx of people who want to get into the country so we'd have an even larger problem of assimulation-failure than we do right now, not to mention the increased burden on our social services.

2) Knowing who is entering and leaving is useful for stopping known threats (or knowing that they're in the country), but expanding legal immigration opens a wider security hole for people we haven't already identified as threats. Under your plan, what's to stop a new Mohammed Atta from coming to the country, signing his name, and driving an airplane into a tower?