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Fruit Ninja
06-30-2007, 09:50 PM
just watched his fight since i have a stream tv account. last time i seen a fight of his, he looked hell of slow and was having horrible slurred speech. Well, during todays fight, the guy was fairly sharp and beat the living shit out of Lou Savarse. Now they are interviewing him and he all of a sudden has NO slurred speech whatsoever. I dunno what to think.

Skip Towne
06-30-2007, 09:52 PM
He was a bad dude in his day.

Fruit Ninja
06-30-2007, 09:53 PM
Yes, he was. I loved his fights. I just dont know how he can all of a sudden have no slurred speech. I have never seen it. He was talking all nice and clear. He has a little homeboy accent haha, but he was talking clear.

milkman
06-30-2007, 10:17 PM
Yes, he was. I loved his fights. I just dont know how he can all of a sudden have no slurred speech.

Speech therapy?

Or brain surgery?

milkman
06-30-2007, 10:20 PM
Yes, he was. I loved his fights.

IMO, there really hasn't been a a really good heavyweight since Larry Holmes, who is historically underrated, IMO.

Fruit Ninja
06-30-2007, 10:36 PM
IMO, there really hasn't been a a really good heavyweight since Larry Holmes, who is historically underrated, IMO.
Hehe, well, i dont agree with that. Holyfield was just awesome, the dude has incredible heart.

The slurred speech thing still boggles me. I dont think speech therapy or brain surgery has anything to do with it. He was half scrambled eggs already lol

Phobia
06-30-2007, 10:39 PM
IMO, there really hasn't been a a really good heavyweight since Larry Holmes, who is historically underrated, IMO.

I dislike Mike Tyson significantly but dude dominated everybody for a long time. You really think the competition was so poor that he doesn't get mention as "really good"?

milkman
06-30-2007, 10:42 PM
I dislike Mike Tyson significantly but dude dominated everybody for a long time. You really think the competition was so poor that he doesn't get mention as "really good"?

Who the hell did he beat?

And he lost to Buster Douglas at a time when he should have been in his prime.

Fruit Ninja
06-30-2007, 10:45 PM
I think Tyson was really good, but he seriously lost focus and started partying to much i think. Also his trainer who was like a dad to him died and he was never the same.

Phobia
06-30-2007, 10:46 PM
Who the hell did he beat?

And he lost to Buster Douglas at a time when he should have been in his prime.

He beat everybody. He didn't just beat them, he pummeled them. It was ridiculous. If you want to argue that he's not one of the all-time great heavyweights I'll condede the discussion. But he was at LEAST "really good".

milkman
06-30-2007, 10:50 PM
He beat everybody. He didn't just beat them, he pummeled them. It was ridiculous. If you want to argue that he's not one of the all-time great heavyweights I'll condede the discussion. But he was at LEAST "really good".

My point is that he beat a bunch of bums.

No one that would have ever gotten a title shot in any any era before the Tyson era.

Tyson was better than anyone in his time by far.

But that's like saying that a bad NFL team is better than a junior high team.

The fact that NFL team could pummel those junior high teams doesn't make them really good.

DaneMcCloud
06-30-2007, 11:18 PM
I dislike Mike Tyson significantly but dude dominated everybody for a long time. You really think the competition was so poor that he doesn't get mention as "really good"?

Sorry to disagree but he beat NO ONE. He only fought ONE fighter under the age of 30 as champion and lost. He avoided highly regarded and ranked young fighters such as Razor Ruddock, Michael Dokes, Bert Cooper and yes, Evander Holyfield. He was supposed to fight Holyfield twice before his incarceration but backed out both times.

He was a paper champion.

Larry Holmes, OTOH, defended the heavyweight title 19 times, the most since Joe Louis. He did fight everyone - from Ken Norton to Ernie Shavers to Ossie Ocasio, Mike Weaver, Michael Dokes, Pinklon Thomas and on and on and on. At one point, he was fighting one a month! That hadn't been done since the 1940's!

Mike Tyson wouldn't have lasted against the likes of Holmes, Shavers, Weaver and especially, Ken Norton. Hell, Tyson couldn't beat Buster Douglas.

Fruit Ninja
06-30-2007, 11:21 PM
He fought and beat Razor Ruddick 2 times. Awesome fights too.

Phobia
06-30-2007, 11:23 PM
Again, I'm not a fan. I acknowledge that his fight history is spotty and that he fought bums.

But he destroyed all comers. He was vicious.

I don't think he's the best of all time. I'm really not big enough of a boxing authority to comment on that. I just think saying he was not "really good" is unfair because he was at least "really good".

DaneMcCloud
07-01-2007, 12:02 AM
Again, I'm not a fan. I acknowledge that his fight history is spotty and that he fought bums.

But he destroyed all comers. He was vicious.

I don't think he's the best of all time. I'm really not big enough of a boxing authority to comment on that. I just think saying he was not "really good" is unfair because he was at least "really good".

I think he was "good" but certainly not very good and definitely not great. He didn't take on all comers because his fights were all handpicked. As I stated, he ducked the young heavyweights at the time (including Lennox Lewis, Oliver McCall, Ray Mercer and more) to fight a bunch of over-the-hill, washed up tomato cans. He was never truly tested in the ring until the Buster Douglas fight and we all know how that ended.

Tyson would have a better place in history if he would have fought and beaten all the young heavyweights of the time instead of 37 year old club that included Tony Tucker, James "Bonehugger" Smith, Trevor Berbick and so on.

DaneMcCloud
07-01-2007, 12:08 AM
He fought and beat Razor Ruddick 2 times. Awesome fights too.

Those fights were after he lost his title and the first fight ended in massive controversy. The second fight was a very close but it was obvious that the Razor Ruddock of the early 1990's wasn't the same as the Razor Ruddock of 1988. After the Tyson fights, Ruddock was knocked out by both Lennox Lewis and then, Tommy Morrison.

Something that Mike Tyson couldn't do.

Fruit Ninja
07-01-2007, 01:31 AM
Those fights were after he lost his title and the first fight ended in massive controversy. The second fight was a very close but it was obvious that the Razor Ruddock of the early 1990's wasn't the same as the Razor Ruddock of 1988. After the Tyson fights, Ruddock was knocked out by both Lennox Lewis and then, Tommy Morrison.

Something that Mike Tyson couldn't do.
I think Ruddock was just done after them fights. THey were awesome to watch. I been trying to get a hold of them fights on dvd or tape for a few years now. I found it once to download off a torrent but no seeds.

ILChief
07-01-2007, 07:16 AM
what is streamtv?

dtebbe
07-01-2007, 09:06 AM
I hope he invested his money well. His estate is about 2 miles from me, and rumor has it that the grounds maintenance alone runs about $4 mil per year. I guess these retards don't think about that stuff when they build.

DT

DaneMcCloud
07-01-2007, 10:40 AM
I think Ruddock was just done after them fights. THey were awesome to watch. I been trying to get a hold of them fights on dvd or tape for a few years now. I found it once to download off a torrent but no seeds.

And it's not just the Razor Ruddock-Mike Tyson type of fights that wear champions out. Riddick Bowe wasn't the same after the 3 wars with Holyfield, Joe Frazier wasn't the same after his knockout by George Foreman and later Ali, and going back further, Floyd Patterson's three fights with Ingmar Johansson obviously took their toll as he was never te same fighter (being knocked out by Sonny Liston & Cassius Clay).

Tyson certainly was a much better heavyweight champion than the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera and Leon Spinks, but he certainly isn't in the top 20 of All-Time and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the true greats such as Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Jim Jeffries, Jack Dempsey, Larry Holmes or Muhammed Ali.

Which brings me back to the original premise about Tyson: If he had fought the best young heavyweights on his way to the championship and as champion, how long would he have been champ and would he even had won it?

OctoberFart
07-01-2007, 11:15 AM
Boxing is terrible right now and especially the heavy weights.

Fruit Ninja
07-01-2007, 12:54 PM
And it's not just the Razor Ruddock-Mike Tyson type of fights that wear champions out. Riddick Bowe wasn't the same after the 3 wars with Holyfield, Joe Frazier wasn't the same after his knockout by George Foreman and later Ali, and going back further, Floyd Patterson's three fights with Ingmar Johansson obviously took their toll as he was never te same fighter (being knocked out by Sonny Liston & Cassius Clay).

Tyson certainly was a much better heavyweight champion than the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Jack Sharkey, Primo Carnera and Leon Spinks, but he certainly isn't in the top 20 of All-Time and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the true greats such as Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Jim Jeffries, Jack Dempsey, Larry Holmes or Muhammed Ali.

Which brings me back to the original premise about Tyson: If he had fought the best young heavyweights on his way to the championship and as champion, how long would he have been champ and would he even had won it?
I never said he was one of the best. I think he was a great fighter in his prime. I think his real downfall was what happend outside of the ring which cuased his in ring performances to become sub par. We will never really know though, thats in the past.

Anyways, i still want the Tyson/Ruddick fights on dvd if anyone knows how to get a hold of them i wouldnt mind paying for them.

CoMoChief
07-01-2007, 01:30 PM
If Mike Tyson wasn't such a loose screw he would have had a stellar career. That guy simply just simply beat the piss out of everyone while in his prime.

DaneMcCloud
07-01-2007, 04:59 PM
If Mike Tyson wasn't such a loose screw he would have had a stellar career. That guy simply just simply beat the piss out of everyone while in his prime.

When was his "prime"? 1987-1989? Two years? That's nonsense. MOst fighters don't reach their "Prime" until 28-30. As stated before, he fought NO ONE. Not Holyfield, Witherspoon, Dokes, Ruddock, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer - hell, not even George Foreman. His list of opponents while fighting before winning the title and during his "reign" is like the who's who of tomato cans.

Mike Tyson's career was all smoke and mirrors, carefully orchestrated by Cus D'Amato, Bill Caton and later, Don King. The fact that the casual boxing fan still regards him as even being "good" is a testament to that fact.

Fruit Ninja
07-01-2007, 05:12 PM
I am no casual boxing fan, but i still thimk he was great for a time. When he lost to buster he just want in shape and he wasnt mentally there. That loss should have never happend. After that i just dont think he was ever really into boxing anymore. I remember fights where he said it was hard for him to even get motivated. Once that happens, its over.