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View Full Version : Green and Grbac have the same skills


c13zephyr
04-23-2001, 10:50 PM
Truth be told Grbac had fine skills. He was just dumb as a brick and had terrible social skills. Green already appears to be more media friendly and looks like he is interested in making friends with his team. Not interested at pointing fingers. I think that Green is definitely a leader. Not too mention he's got fine skills too, once his knee heals.

I think it will be funny to watch Baltimore go 0-0-16. 16 ties, because their D is damn good and 16 ties because Grbac is so stupid, his team will hate him by the 2nd week of summer camp.

jAZ
04-24-2001, 12:27 AM
Uh... Would that be the 2nd undefeated season ever? Would they be considered the greatest team of all time? Or the worst?

I could see it happening...

Gaz
04-24-2001, 07:14 AM
Grbac has height, a strong arm and is a good play action QB. He has a slow Defensive read and I question his decision-making capabilities. The play action game gives him time to read the D and use that arm to throw the bomb. He will be a good fit with the Ravens, because they will not ask him to win the game. They will ask him not to lose it. He will ride that D to the playoffs and smile all the way to the bank.

He would have been a terrible fit with Saunders' quick-read, up-tempo Offense. You need a QB with an accurate arm and a quick read. Beuerlein, Brees, Weinke, Green and Collins all fit that profile. Grbac did us a favor when he left [even though it did not feel like it at the time].

xoxo~
Gaz
Thinks KC and Baltimore are both better off than they were.

Clint in Wichita
04-24-2001, 07:20 AM
I disagree...Dilfer is the kind of unimpressive QB that won't go out there and LOSE a game.
Grbac is the type of QB that will throw a game into the crapper all by himself, THEN blame it on someone else.

Baltimore just guaranteed that there will be no repeat IMO.

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 07:22 AM
I'd agree with you Gaz, except for one minor point: the inclusion of Weinke in the argument. Word on him was that his mechanics were poor, as was his accuracy, and that problem was the reason there wasn't a great deal of interest in him, not just his age.

In my opinion, we made the right decision (or were forced into the right decision by the Lions...) by not taking any rookie QBs in the draft (although we have added one since it ended).

You're right though, all parties came out of this smelling like roses, IMO.

kcred
04-24-2001, 07:23 AM
After the second week, his teammates will hate him, hard for me to agree with that one. After Banks, and Dilfer, no one is going to hate Elvis. I don't think he will have the numbers he did here, but I don't think he has the receivers he did here. He is also going to have a running attack, which, whether he did here, or not, we will never know. With the stooges calling the plays, we became Rams West, before the influx of Ram coaches, and schemes. I agree with Gaz though, in that, the quick read attack of AS would not have been as productive with EG and it will be with TG. Now, if everyone can get over the 1st rounder it took to get him, I believe the Chiefs will have a good offense.

keg in kc
04-24-2001, 07:26 AM
Travis Taylor, Qadry Ismail and Shannon Sharpe (and now Heap) are pretty good receivers IMHO kcred...

HC_Chief
04-24-2001, 07:45 AM
<i>Dilfer is the kind of unimpressive QB that won't go out there and LOSE a game.
Grbac is the type of QB that will throw a game into the crapper all by himself, THEN blame it on someone else.
</i>

Nay'er a truer statement to be found! :D

Red and Gold Mania
04-24-2001, 08:01 AM
Grbac does not have a strong arm. He can throw a nice spiral but I have not ever seen him throw a nice laser like Brunell or Favre.

chop
04-24-2001, 08:55 AM
Gaz,

I disagree with your assessment on Baltimore's usage of Grbac. If all Baltimore was going to ask of thier QB was not to lose the game than they would have kept Dilfer. Baltimores coach is an offensive minded coach who is trying to build an attacking offense. An offense that throws the ball more and is wide open. His team won the SB with thier D but the style the offense took on was not the coaches. The offense will not only rely on the running of Lewis but will also rely on the arm of Grbac. If Grbac is asked to go out and not lose it will be because the coach has lost faith in his abilities.

Gaz
04-24-2001, 10:17 AM
Chop-

If that is the case, Grbac is the wrong QB. Grbac needs the play action to give him time to read the field. He also needs receivers who can adjust to the ball in flight, because he is not the most accurate QB on the planet. He is perfect for smashmouth, play action football on a team with a great Defense. If the Ravens staff does not understand that they got Trent Dilfer’s more obnoxious little brother, then they are in for a real surprise this season.

xoxo~
Gaz
Knows KC is better off, and that’s pretty much all he cares about.

c13zephyr
04-24-2001, 11:05 PM
After posting the initial post, I have read the responses. I agree Grbac would have sucked here with the quick read offense. He's dumb. I do believe Green will be fine because he seems intelligent. Grbac WILL be hated by all of his team by week 2. Reason: he will take all the credit for wins and blame everyone else for losses. Finally, yes Grbac can definitely throw a game into the crapper, even if Baltimore asks him just not to lose the game. It's still bound to happen. Grbac just isn't smart. Too bad too, because he has the physical skills to be a decent pocket QB. Oh well, not our problem now! Should be fun having an intelligent QB in Green. Should also be fun watching Baltimore be 0-0-16.

Packfan
04-25-2001, 09:32 AM
I tend to agree that Elvis and Green have about the same skill set. You can lump a bunch of players with those guys: Brad Johnson, Jay Fiedler, Steve Buerline, Jeff George, Kerry Collins, Vinnie Testeverde, Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, ect.

There is one MAIN difference however: The Chiefs gave up the 12th pick in the draft for Green. All the other came free via free agency to their current teams.

What a horrible trade for the Chiefs. Why not draft a running back or defensive lineman and wait until next year to get a journey man, backup QB in free agency??

Nobody else was interested in Trent Green, but the Chiefs.

No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.

Otter
04-25-2001, 09:40 AM
Boy, Dick Vermeil sure has a great smile doesn't he!

ExtremeChief
04-25-2001, 09:44 AM
We gave up the 12th pick for Green, Horne, and a 5th rounder. The rams would have matched Horne if the deal hadn't gone through, IMO.

So, for the 12th we got our starting QB, KR/WR, and possible 3rd down back.

I like that option better than Dilfer/McCallister or Beuerline/McCallister.


don't know if Green is the answer, but think he was the best option...

Packfan
04-26-2001, 09:06 AM
Extreme,

Green is certainly the best option for THIS YEAR. But thats the been the problem with the Chiefs: Short term thinking. Elvis Grbac pulled a fast one on the Chiefs, but they should have seen that coming or begin negotiating with him sooner. Giving up the 12th pick is way to high for a guy that was free a few years back and really hasnt done anything since. Why not sign Buerline to a one year deal, draft a running back (priest holmes isnt the answer either) and then wait for a guy like Trent Green to come available again on the waiver wire??

Some times I can be a bit sarcastic, but I really believe its moves like this that keep this team from going anywhere. The Chiefs continue to plug in mediocre QBs and Running Backs and continue to get mediocre results. For a team that is so short on talent on both sides of the ball, giving away first and 2nd round picks for a backup QB and 67 year old coach is unforgivable.

Its no wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.

ExtremeChief
04-26-2001, 10:08 AM
As far as I can see, DV thinks Green is worth the first rounder...I do think he will be a better fit than Grbac would have. I think that was their intention all along. I don't believe they intended on resigning Grbac in the first place.

As far as drafting a RB, maybe Holmes isn't the answer, I don't think Duece would have been either. Maybe the Blaylock kid will show something.

Green wouldn't have been a free agent for 2 more years, so I don't see waiting around for him as a viable option. If you agree that Green is a better fit for this O than Beuerline or Dilfer, then you can surely see why we had to do this deal now. The NFL is what have you done for me lately, and as you like to bring up, we haven't won a playoff game in 8 years. Why would we want to spend another 2-3 developing a QB and RB???

I think we did what we needed to do...got a QB, WR/KR, and RBOTF (maybe) for the #12. If we had given a 1st and 3rd for Green alone, then I would be pissed. As it is now, I can live with it.



in wait and see mode...

BIG_DADDY
04-26-2001, 10:10 AM
Packfan,

First you say Green is the best choice for THIS year and the problem is that they are too short sighted. Then you follow with your answer which is sign Buerlein (way shorter term.) You are truly a man of contradiction.

Gaz
04-26-2001, 10:43 AM
You are truly a man of contradiction.

Oh, man! Now I have that insipid Culture Club song in my head…

Thanks a lot, B_D.

xoxo~
Gaz
Thinking about banging his head with a stapler to make Boy George stop.

Packfan
04-26-2001, 11:01 AM
Extreme

Right up until they traded for Green, Carl and Vermeil said that the 12th pick was to high. Negotiation ploys, I am sure. I doubt very seriously, though, that Carl and Vermeil exchanged high fives when they lost Grbac. It left them with a huge void at the most important position on the field. Suddenly, they were looking at Todd Collins as their QB. Instead of drafting "a feature back", they had to address the QB. Elvis departure and Carl's failure to EVER develop a QB has been a disaster.

One would think that Carl would learn after 12 years.

No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.

BIG_DADDY
04-26-2001, 11:05 AM
Gaz,

They have that Levi's commercial coming on CNBC all the time that sticks that stupid song in my head too. I hate it when that happens.

BIG DADDY

Thinks this is a good song for Packfan though.:D

Gaz
04-26-2001, 11:08 AM
Packfan-

Carl and Vermeil said the #12 pick was too high and they stood by that statement. We did not trade the #12 for Green. We traded the #12 for Green, Horne and [eventually] Blaylock.

We needed a QB and this year’s draft crop was disappointingly shallow at QB. The only other QB available with that #12 was Brees. Some folks here thought that would be a good pickup, some did not. The Chiefs did not. They made a trade that got us our starting QB at a good price and made the OC and HC happy.

Even the most pig-headed blind Carl basher has to concede that Carl got great value for that pick.

xoxo~
Gaz
Judging the trade on value obtained.

keg in kc
04-26-2001, 11:09 AM
Let's play a little jeopardy!


A: This NFC team once went 25 years without a playoff victory, is quickly spiralling back into mediocrity and by this time next year will have gone 4 years without a playoff win because they lack the talent to compete with the elite teams of the NFL. This team was abandoned by their great and legendary GM in a manner reminiscent of rats fleeing from a sinking ship.

Q: Who are the green bay peckers.

Mark M
04-26-2001, 11:09 AM
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.
No wonder this team hasnt won a playoff game in 8 years.


How long has it been? Kenny, you are such a

http://129.116.50.162/pics/troll.jpg

Packfan
04-26-2001, 11:17 AM
Gaz,

Tony Horne and a fifth round pick. Big deal. Horne caugh four passes last year. If Carl had done him homework, they should have been able to find a pr/kr at some point in the last couple of drafts.

Yes, the Chiefs do need a QB. My entire point is that guys like Green are ALWAYS availabe via free agency. The Chiefs, IMO, should have signed a stop gap (which is really what Green is) and then drafted a QBeither this year or next year. The 12th pick is just to damn high for someone like Trent Green.

You guys get all excited over Green, but I bet you would have been more excited if they drafted Drew Brees - someone 8 years younger. Trent Green has proven two things in the NFL: He can hold a clip board and he made a lot of money.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2001, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Packfan


You guys get all excited over Green, but I bet you would have been more excited if they drafted Drew Brees - someone 8 years younger. Trent Green has proven two things in the NFL: He can hold a clip board and he made a lot of money.


The Chiefs didn't draft Brees , they attained Green. At this stage it's pointless to quarrel about the Chiefs personale moves, because of the potential on the field.

KCinGA
04-27-2001, 07:28 AM
Packfan,

You're missing the boat on this one. To say that we didn't get enough value out of the #12 pick overrall is a pretty skewed view of what really happened. You may be upset that the Chiefs didn't go with an untested rookie with that pick, but they definitely made a trade that brought a lot of value to the team.

Trent Green brings a lot to the table. At the very least, his understanding of the offense and the ability to mentor our other QB's will help our transition from the Gunther/Jimmy Raye offense of last year to the open up-tempo offense that Vermeil and Saunders prefer. Plus, he can run this offense pretty well and has proved that he can flourish in it.

To simply state the receiving yardage that Tony Horne had last year would not be representing his true value to the Chiefs. It's his return yardage capability that brings the most value to this team. His receiving capabilities are a plus. If you think that the Chiefs haven't tried to draft a returner in the past, you'd be mistaken. They have tried - and failed. As you know, not every rookie pans out in the NFL.

And, let's not forget the #5 pick we got in return. The Chiefs used it to pick up a speedy running back, that could be used as a successful 3rd down change-of-pace back.

No value in return for our #12 pick overall? You're mistaken, my friend. We got plenty of value with that pick that may serve us well in the years to come.

Chief Psychosis
04-27-2001, 07:44 AM
Similar skills maybe. Intangibles though? Green blows Grbac out of the water!

KCTitus
04-27-2001, 07:48 AM
Ken, of all people, should know the value of a good kick returner. Hell, if it werent for D. Howard, the Pack wouldnt have won the SB in 1996.

jamayka
04-27-2001, 08:10 AM
I find it amazing that people still want to complain about our Chiefs and the personnel moves. It seems to me that certain people just want to be negative.

The move to get Trent Green, a Quarterback with heart, smarts and an arm, was beautiful! All we had to give up was a 1St Rounder? And we got Tony Horne, a dangerous return man, no matter what his off the field problems are (anybody heard of Ray Lewis? Didn't he have some off the field problems too? I think something about Murder--not marijuana), which is something the Chiefs haven't had in a long time. Oh yeah, and a running back. HMMM. granted Priest Holmes may or may not pan out, but, we sure could give him the benefit of the doubt at this point, don't you think?

And let's talk about Trent Green VS. GRPlunk:

Elvi GrPlunk---Stuck-up, without all the skills to back it up. Stupid when it comes to 2 minutes left in the game. Not the friendliest guy and has diarrhea of the mouth--"I know what it takes to win a championship"...oh really? That's funny, I recall being in a championship and you not winning it. In fact, Elvi-you lost it! Elvi did not for one minute in his news conference talk about getting to know the Baltimore community or his teamates and how important it was to be the leader.

Trent Green--Very smart when it come to the game plan, accurate arm. good head and friendly. His teamates love him. During his news conference he talked about how important it was to get to know the community and his teammates. He talked about how important it was to become the leader of this football team. This footabll team needs that.

So enough with the negative crap about this team. If we sucked bigtime when it becomes Decmeber, then fine. But right now, I think it's important for true Chiefs fans to support this team and the changes they have made. I FOR ONE CANNOT WAIT TO KICK EVERYONES *** THIS COMING SEASON!!!!

Sorry for all the grammatical errors--I type fast.

Peace.

HC_Chief
04-27-2001, 08:13 AM
Ya mon! :D

Baby Lee
04-27-2001, 09:15 AM
Horne caugh four passes last year.
Yeah, and Warren Sapp didn't catch any. Anyone know why? Cause he's a D Lineman!!

JC-Johnny
hoping Packfan realizes why they call them kickoffs and not pass-offs.